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PS3's Lair Playable Via Remote On PSP

Posted by Zonk on from the big-dragon-little-monitor dept.

Next Generation has confirmed with Sony a rumor working its way through fan boards: Lair is playable via remote on the PSP. That is, you can load up the game on your PlayStation 3, and then actually play it on the PSP's small-but-beautiful screen. This is functionality that Sony has been hinting at since the PS3 was announced, but up until now remote play has been restricted to music and movies stored on the console. Kotaku notes in their writeup that you need to play through the tutorial first on the console proper if you want to do this. The PSP doesn't have the buttons the game uses to brake.

84 comments

  1. Awesome! by Wordplay · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now it can be terrible on -two- systems!

    1. Re:Awesome! by mweather · · Score: 1

      Did you get a refund or do you still own the game?

    2. Re:Awesome! by RamblinLonghorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Metacritic reviews of Lair

      ouch...

    3. Re:Awesome! by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      I'll rent it, but the critical consensus seems pretty clear. I've taken some chances with some pretty iffy games (Shadowrun, I'm looking at you), but this one's just not a buy.

    4. Re:Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh yes 1080p graphics despite the fact that it has framerate issues that would probably be cleared up at 720p! And it's really big, so it must be great! And motion controls that were used despite being heavily criticized by those who played early builds.

      Face it, the reviews for this game have been almost entirely negative. They say the story sucks, the controls are unresponsive, and the gameplay is tedious. PS3 fans have latched onto this game in the hopes that it would prove their system's worth, but it has utterly fucking failed. I have not personally played this game, but the reviews have made it clear that this game is at best mediocre and it's time for the PS3 fans to stop pretending that everyone out there is out to get them and just accept that this is a genuinely bad game.

      You spend all of this time posting here trying to get people to recognize Sony's greatness or whatever. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, that Sony hasn't really done anything all that great lately?

    5. Re:Awesome! by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      What of IGN and GameSpot?

      Rob

    6. Re:Awesome! by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Obviously a global conspiracy.

      Seriously, it's the game forums that attract the most vicious frothing screaming animalistic fucktards, and some of them stop chewing their controllers long enough to wander onto slashdot. No point in dignifying them.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    7. Re:Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes I wish I could understand the bizarre world you inhabit.

    8. Re:Awesome! by ucblockhead · · Score: 2, Informative

      And with the right analog stick, R2 and L2 buttons missing, you get double the masochism!

      --
      The cake is a pie
    9. Re:Awesome! by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      Dude, I in love with my PS3 (my Wii and 360 get far, far less play), but even I'll say that you're a moron.

    10. Re:Awesome! by fimbulvetr · · Score: 1

      Playstation magazine gave it a 5/10. I bet that's part of the conspiracy, too.

    11. Re:Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PS3 fans are claiming that the editor of PSM is an "Xbot" and he's using his position at the magazine to subvert the PS3. I shit you not.

    12. Re:Awesome! by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      The ironic part is that I'm actually quite the fan (and an owner) of the PS3. That doesn't mean every game for it is good.

  2. Great by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now maybe they could do this with a game that's worth playing.

    Rob

    1. Re:Great by seebs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Someone pointed me at a gameplay video which makes me think the game's fine, it's just that the controls are too realistic -- which is to say, they respond just fine, but gradually, and overreaction and overcompensation produce garbage. Makes sense to me.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    2. Re:Great by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Explain the ass-tastic targeting system described in the reviews, then.

      Also, if you're going to give the character a certain kind of "realistic" control intentionally, then you need to intentionally design the environment so that the "realistic" control isn't a hindrance. On this all the reviews seem to be unanimous -- in wide-open spaces with no enemies or objects, the controls are fine. It's just much of the action takes place in tight quarters.

      If you're going to give the player a C-130, you don't ask them to do Blue Angel acrobatics. Because if you did, that game would suck.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  3. Maybe this will make it playable by heinousjay · · Score: 1

    The biggest complaint so far in the reviews is the awful control scheme. Maybe playing it through the PSP's interface will fix that. Certainly worth watching, in any case.

    Since this is likely to be read by a lot of Sony fans, what games would you say are worth playing at this point? I have no interest in Motorstorm, so skip that one. I keep having an urge to buy a PS3, I just haven't found anything I want to play yet and some honest opinions would be appreciated.

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    1. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by DrXym · · Score: 2, Informative
      The biggest complaint so far in the reviews is the awful control scheme. Maybe playing it through the PSP's interface will fix that. Certainly worth watching, in any case.

      My understanding is that no, it doesn't. The PSP is missing the second shoulder buttons that you need for fast turns and other buttons. Why it was left on is anybody's guess. Perhaps it was as a proof of concept for future games.

      Remote play is a cool feature but it introduces a small but very noticeable latency. This is not surprising considering the PS3 has to stream data to the PSP where it is reconstituted. But it means remote play has a lag of 200-300ms. So it might be great for RPGs and other turn based or slow games, but not so good for racing games, shooters etc.

      Remote play also has limited application since the PS3 must be fully powered to make it work. I don't know if Sony intend or can implement a low power state or something similar to wake on LAN. It's something that would make the feature a lot more useful.

    2. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by JordanL · · Score: 2, Informative

      Super Stardust HD and Warhawk are far and above worth playing.

      Other than that... Echochrome and GT5: Prologue look like all we've got for the rest of the year worth picking up, (maybe Heavenly Sword if you really like the genre), and Everyday Shooter whenever it is released.

      There's also Home in the next few months if you find it interesting, but not everyone does. Working for a PS3 related website... I have to say that LittleBigPlanet almost seems like it's worth the purchase of a PS3 by itself, but I still want to play it before I give it too much praise.

      Sat int he press section at GDC and saw Phil and company playing the game... it was like objectified fun. I'm way more excited about LBP than I am abotu Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario is one of my favorite memes in games.

      If you're looking for an excuse to get a PS3 though, it really is quite excellent as a multimedia center. Stick a 300 or 120 GB notebook drive in there, download Red Kawa's video encoder for the PS3, and you can put dozens of your favorite TV episodes or movies on your TV, ready to watch at any time, or on your PSP if you have one when the TV is in use. Blu-Ray is actually starting to come into its own now as well, and HDTVs are starting to become more reasonable.

      By GDC next year, I expect that people won't have to look for a reason to buy a PS3 anymore. That doesn't excuse the lack of reasons right now however. Right now, it's very touch and go. If you have the money, I can tell you that you won't be disappointed with your purchase. If you have to scrounge the extra cash to manage a PS3, you will probably be frustrated by its current state of games and such.

      --
      FanFictionRecs.net
    3. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Darth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not necessarily a sony fan ( dont feel strongly about them either way, certainly not enough to be considered fanatical). I do have a PS3, though, so here's what i thought of the games i am familiar with.

      I played the Motorstorm demo and hated it. (I'm not really into off-road racing so it is probably a good game for which i am not the target market).

      F1 Championship Edition is a good game and lots of fun if you like Formula One. The big downside is that if you play career mode, it takes between 2 and 3 hours at a time to play it. You have to do practice, then qualifying, then race before you can save your progress. Because of that, I haven't gotten very far in career mode. Once i'm more familiar with the tracks, i'll probably skip practice and skip a lot of time in qualifying and then it'll take about an hour between save points, but right now i'm not good enough to skip the practice.

      Fight Night Round 3 has the same problems it had when i played it on my friend's xbox 360 (the biggest problem being it's a buggy piece of crap). When it behaves, it's pretty fun. When it starts threatening to stop the fight if you dont defend yourself, while your opponent is pinned to the ropes eating punches and tells you that you need to fix your cut, but doesn't show a cut in the repair interface, it will make you want to throw the controller across the room.

      Virtua Fighter 5 is fun if you like fighting games. I really like it and it is as good as previous versions were. (i used to play it in arcades...not so much on consoles, so i dont know how the previous ones were on consoles)

      I haven't bought it yet, but i did play Warhawk a little bit at a friends house this weekend and it was pretty cool. I really liked flying the fighters. The ground combat sucked, but that has more to do with me hating console interfaces for first person shooter (or 3rd person shooter) type games.

      For downloadable games, I liked Blast Factor and flow. They were both pretty good.

      However, Super Stardust HD is fantastic and probably my favourite game on the console. I have a rivalry going with a friend of mine on it and it really makes for some good motivation to try and beat each others' high scores.

      They also release demos of some of the games in the store so you can try them before you buy them.
      Another thing i like about the store is that i can choose what i want to buy and when i check out i can put exactly the amount of my purchase in my "wallet" and pay for it. I really like not having to convert cash to points and not having my money tied up in their online system when i'm not actively trying to buy something.

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    4. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Gravatron · · Score: 1
      Well lets see. Haze just went exclusive, and free radical has in the past made great stuff. Eye of Judgment looks neat, and at $60, not as hard on the wallet as I feared. Folklore's demo was pretty solid, so high hopes there. Ratchet and Clank is always fun, so thats a gimme, and Uncharted looks pretty good as well. Naughty Dog has some great talent, really hoping they pull off a winner. Wipeout, super stardust, Echochrome, and some other PSN games look fun, and at $5 to $10 a pop, too good to pass up. Warhawk is a blast, even if the ranks are messed up at the moment. Hot shots Golf 5 is due soon, which has always been a fun little series, and Time crisis 4, which was pretty cool in the arcade. Unreal Tourny 3 looks great, and the confirmed mouse + keyboard support goes along way in making me happy with that one.


      On the multiplatform side, we got Orange box, Call of Duty 4, Stranglehold + Hard Boiled BD, Army of two, Skate, Dirt, Tony hawk, Jerico, Guitar Hero III, Rock Band, Blacksite, Timeshift, and Assassins creed. Not a bad third party showing, if a bit shooter heavy for a fall lineup.


      Overall, not to shabby. Q1 08 looks decent so far, but thats still a ways away. Home drops this fall, but its more a passtime then a true game.

    5. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I'm in the minority that actually enjoys Lair it seems. But quite honestly, I find the PS3 I bought last week to be about as useful as a paperweight. I only bought it because 60GB PS3s are on the way out, and I need something to play Assassin's Creed on. (And I DETEST Microsoft).

    6. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      So. . .how's the Sony boycott going?

    7. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Why did you want a 60GB PS3 specifically? You do know that it's a near-certainty that the 80GB PS3 will go down in price by the end of the year, right?

      Rob

    8. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Haha, I didn't even notice that.

      Rob

    9. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Tony · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The biggest complaint so far in the reviews is the awful control scheme.

      Yeah. I remember when we went from the single-joystick, four-button controllers to the scheme both Microsoft and Sony use, and Nintendo used on the Gamecube. Everybody complained about how complex it was.

      I played Lair for the first time tonight, and after just a few minutes, I could do things with the combination motion-control and joystick/buttons that you couldn't dream of without the motion control. I can assure you, the control scheme is *not* awful.

      My only complaint is, the control scheme is different for one-on-one fights, as opposed to the general melee fighting. Both control schemes are decent (though I prefer the melee controls). I found myself getting used to it after about an hour, though. A few more hours, and it'll be second nature to switch back and forth.

      I really enjoyed it, and found the control scheme very nice. It's substantially more complex than Warhawk, but it's also way cooler.

      --
      Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    10. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by nacturation · · Score: 1

      The Emotion chip plays PS2 games primarily through hardware, whereas the 80GB and later models emulate the PS2 through software. Sony has admitted that software emulation will reduce backwards compatibility. So for those who want to play the broadest range of PS2 games with the highest possibility of compatibility, the 60GB model is the way to go.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    11. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      That'll be meaningless unless you don't update the firmware ever. In fact, I'm pretty sure all of the EE-equipped PS3s are already running software emulation under the latest firmware.

      BTW, the difference between hardware and software emulation is fairly small and getting smaller every day. And with the EE you don't get some of the nifty results of software emulation like upscaling.

      Rob

    12. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not True, the PS3 processes and upscales the games as they exit the Emotion Engine. A software update enabled this functionality on the 60 Gb PS3s a while ago. Got anything else you want to make up?

    13. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by xtieburn · · Score: 1

      Your suggesting that one games poor control system is comparable to the upgrade to dual analogue. Thats just daft.

      For one its nothing to do with the technology of the pad as other games using the technology have pulled it off nicely. Its everything to do with how they set up the control system and the vast vast majority hate it.

      Secondly, who exactly is this 'Everybody' because as far as I can remember no one complained about dual analogue apart from a) the people who continue to believe the pad is too complex for a wider audience to this day. (and no doubt support the Wii controller.) and b) people who think the Sony pad has relatively awkward positioning of the anologue sticks, also to this day.*

      Sonys pad technology is nothing new and certainly no where near dual anologue. Microsoft had virtually identical pad technology a long time ago and though it was neat then and neat now it just isnt a ground breaking change. I very much doubt anyone else in the console war will be clamoring to upgrade there pads like this.

      *I infact am one of them, I like using anologue but play for hours with Playstation sticks then play for hours with X-Box, gamecube, dreamcast sticks and you will feel the difference. Or to put it another way hold your hands out like you are holding a pad and look at where your thumbs are, most will have to bend them down a good few degrees to be in Playstation position.

    14. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by donaldm · · Score: 1

      You do know that it's a near-certainty that the 80GB PS3 will go down in price by the end of the year, right?

      Well if you are willing to wait another one, two or three years (how about 10 years) you will get a much better deal. Sort of stating the obvious don't you think.

      Getting the 60GB or 80GB disk is not that much of a difference and if you want you can always put in a much larger off the self 2.5" disk (120Gb through 250GB plus) if you want. If you are genuinely looking at getting a PS3 then look around for a deal. I actually got mine (Australian version) for the equivalent of US$407 (AUD$499) at the time with a trade in of my 5 year old PS2 and 10 old PS2 games. Try doing a deal (if you have the money) on a reasonable size HDTV and stereo system. Many stores are willing to negotiate if you approach them the right way. Of course you need to have the fortitude to walk away if the deal is not reasonably acceptable.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    15. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by donaldm · · Score: 1

      I have played on many game machines and with regard to analogue sticks I don't really have any issues with the Gamecube, Xbox or even the PS controllers. I normally adjust my hands to accommodate the sticks and I can play for hours without getting sore hands. The exception to this was the N64 controller which I found IMHO to be horrible since I could only play an hour and my hands would cramp. Still what works for me may not work for others.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    16. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Poorly. =(

    17. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by gravis777 · · Score: 1

      As most games on the PS3 tend to be ports of other games on other systems, if you have any of these already, you can probably skip the PS3 version.

      The most recent addition to my titles has been Elder Scrolls Oblivion. This game is absolutely beautiful, and translated really well to the PS3. The game of the year addition is due out soon

      Ninja Gaidan Sigma is beautiful and fun. Spent many hours with this one. The demo is available for download from the online store.

      Super Rub-a-Dub is highly addictive, and I think its only $6 or something through the online store.

      Resistance Fall of Man is AWSOME if you like playing FPS without the use of Keyboard or mouse.

      The Need For Speed games are always good.

      The Gran Turismo HD Concepts demo is available for download from the online store.

      Stay away from Sonic The Hedgehog. REALLY slow to get started, REALLY buggy, LONG load waits.

      Download Lemmings and Soduku from the online store. Both are cheap, and while they do not really show off the power of the PS3, are highly addictive. Lemmings is the traditional side scroller (not a 3d remake), but with updated graphics, so its beautiful and fun.

      FEAR is good, but not as good as the PC version.

      Little Big World is due out soon. The previews of this game (available from the online store) look awsome!

      Ratchet and Clank comes out in October.

      While there is not a ton of games out now, the next few months look exciting for the PS3.
      http://ps3.ign.com/index/release.html

      The PS3 upconverts PS1 and PS2 games. I should point out though that this simply takes the 480i game, and upconverts the graphics and runs a smoother on it, it does NOT rerender 3D graphics at a higher resolution, which is a pity, FF9 for the PSX looks amazing at 1024x768 on PC Playstation emulators. Hopefully a future firmware update will fix this, its not as if the Cell Processor does not have the speed to do it, and the newer PS3s run all legacy games in software emulation mode anyways.

      Also, remember that the PS3 is still a fairly cheap BluRay player. While I could not justify the price of a PS3 for just a game system or a movie player, I felt it was worth the price to get the two. Plus, it makes a great Windows Media device. Just load up TVersity (http://tversity.com/home) on the PC, and the PS3 now will play most of the movies I have on my PC (although I do have some issues with some XVid and TS streams)

    18. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Well if you are willing to wait another one, two or three years (how about 10 years) you will get a much better deal. Sort of stating the obvious don't you think.

      He pretty clearly stated that the PS3 isn't worth getting right now, so presumably it wouldn't matter if he had waited a few months (not three years) to get a better model at the same price.

      Rob

    19. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      He's actually right though. There's a few reasons I wanted a 60GB model.

      1) Hardware compatibility with PS2.
      2) 80GB model probably won't be price dropped until the new year. (my best guess. I work in the industry). I bought a PS3 specifically to play Assassin's Creed. That comes out in a couple short months.

      So yeah, I can afford to wait a few months. But I figured get it now while I still have the chance. If I have need for a bigger hard drive sometime, I can easily upgrade it myself for little cost. But the 60GB model has some features that the 80GB lacks. Such as the PS2 hardware. Better safe than sorry. And I'm already paying upwards of $600 for a single game. Why make it $700?

    20. Re:Maybe this will make it playable by fimbulvetr · · Score: 1

      Right now it's at 72% of the games listed on sony's euro site. That's not exactly a trivial amount of games it doesn't support.

  4. And the point is? by supabeast! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would anyone want to play a PS3 game via the use of a PSP as a remote as opposed to just playing it on the PS3? Is there some added functionality here that I'm missing, or is this just geeks at Sony wasting effort?

    1. Re:And the point is? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone want to play a PS3 game via the use of a PSP as a remote as opposed to just playing it on the PS3?


      Someone else is using the TV for something else?

    2. Re:And the point is? by androvsky · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because it can be done from anywhere there's a wifi connection, not just at home? If someone really enjoys a game, it's a neat idea to be able to play it a little from work/school/coffee shops, or even friends houses. I'd suspect lag would make it largely unplayable for action games, but it's still a good way to show someone the game or get a quick fix.

    3. Re:And the point is? by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why would anyone want to play a PS3 game via the use of a PSP as a remote as opposed to just playing it on the PS3?

      Well, presumably in your Sony®-branded home, you'll have your Playstation® 3 connected up to your expensive and enormous Sony® BRAVIA® high-definition television. But what happens if some other member of your household wants to watch the television? Do you go without playing your wonderful games? No! Just get out your Sony® PSP® and continue from where you left off.

      Potentially while sat on the bog, squeezing out a turd(TM).

      (Personally, I think it could be pretty cool if this wireless-to-PSP thing is done to completion - turning the PS3 into some sort of Digital Entertainment Hub thingy for the home. Watch or play via television or PSP - but I know the reality will have hardly anything working, and it'll be more an interesting afterthought and gimmick than anything useful...)
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    4. Re:And the point is? by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      Aha! How silly of me to think to simply move the PS3 to another room.

    5. Re:And the point is? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Because it can be done from anywhere there's a wifi connection, not just at home? If someone really enjoys a game, it's a neat idea to be able to play it a little from work/school/coffee shops, or even friends houses. I'd suspect lag would make it largely unplayable for action games, but it's still a good way to show someone the game or get a quick fix.


      Remote Play, for anyone who hasn't tried it yet, is like VNC. Basically, when it's enabled, the PS3 switches from whatever high-def output it's doing to 480i, puts up a 480i "Remote Play in progress" screen, and what the PS3 would've outputted is redirected to WiFi. Complete with the characteristic lag.

      Heck, you can do it right now! Using VNC, play a game. Solitaire and Minesweeper on Windows works great, but try playing Tux Racer. Same effect.

      Now you want to play over the internet... adding even more lag, and limited upstream bandwidth causing the display to refresh even slower. And yes, it's more like VNC, and less like RDP or even X. PS3 draws image into framebuffer, framebuffer is redirected to WiFi to display on PSP's screen...
    6. Re:And the point is? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Because the 60GB and now the 80GB PS3 has WiFi why would you want to move your PS3? If you have a second TV just get a Component/Composite stereo transmitter and take your controller in the room you have your second TV and play any PS1/2/3 game. Of course a second HDTV (say 26") is almost a must but it would leave the rest of the family free to watch the large screen HDTV in your living room, unless they want to watch a Bluray movie on the PS3 (sigh!). Having the ability to play the PS3 game on your PSP (if you have one) is nice but this capability depends on the actual game.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  5. Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Holy shit does Lair kick ass.

    Got my copy on Friday and am about halfway through - playing tons of the Warhawk online.

    My god does the game look amazing on a big 1080p set. I've never seen anything like this before. The scale and amount of stuff going on is staggering.

    The controls are very cool. Tilt left and right and your dragon turns that way. You have a range fire attack with one button, and an up close attack button where you go head to head with other dragons.

    You can dash forward with a snap of the wrist or a 180 turn with a snap upwards. Nice additions to the normal flying controls. The 180 is great if you are getting attacked from behind, do a flip around and take out who is attacking you and then flip right back around.

    There are sections where you move the controller to dodge something in a boss battle or shake the controller to damage or rip something appart. Very cool.

    The soundtrack is absolutely amazing. It's easily big budget movie quality.

    What is really cool about the game is it is designed to play missions over and over again getting better at them. And even just flying around looking at the amazing world.

    The only negatives I'd say so far are the voice acting isn't up to the level of a game like Heavenly Sword and the various cuts to story elements can be a bit jarring.

    A friend tried out the PSP remote play yesterday and says there it plays great but you obviously can't do all of the cool motion gestures, but just flying around is very cool.

    I get the feeling that there are people who really fear this game. I suppose the fact that the PS3 can run a game that looks this good at 1080p and shows what a real next gen game's disc requirements are(25 gigs for Lair) make people feel their console is inferior and need to lash out.

    1. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by RamblinLonghorn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The controls are very cool. Tilt left and right and your dragon turns that way. You have a range fire attack with one button, and an up close attack button where you go head to head with other dragons.

      I really wish there was a slashdotscanner ala wikiscanner to prove that you're the same AC who's always posting about Wii controllers being gimicky and "bolted" on.

    2. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing how similar Sony talking points are to White House talking points.

    3. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by pupdog311 · · Score: 0

      So, AC, how long you been at Sony?

    4. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      I don't think that sort of proof is necessary. The writing style and rabidness are the same.

      Rob

    5. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol..what a bunch of sad little punks...so much time wasted trying to trash Lair and it is all backfiring.

    6. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "I get the feeling that there are people who really fear this game. I suppose the fact that the PS3 can run a game that looks this good at 1080p and shows what a real next gen game's disc requirements are(25 gigs for Lair) make people feel their console is inferior and need to lash out."

      Yeah, that'd be so much worse than somebody using a horribly reviewed game with pretty screenshots to pre-emptively lash out at the people using more popular consoles.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    7. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by DrXym · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem with LAIR is mostly down the control scheme. Forcing people to use tilt and gestures for flying with no alternate conventional control scheme was a TERRIBLE IDEA. They should have supplied a normal stick control scheme for people who don't like gesture based gaming. Tilt might just about work but abstract gestures that bear little relation between the physical action and what happens in the game suck big time. They've always sucked and they'll continue to suck. I remember the frustration after encountering the gesture based spells in Black & White on the PC. Nothing has changed. Abstract gestures suck as much now as they did then.

      I seriously think if LAIR did have an alternate control scheme that it would be scoring anywhere from 7 upwards in most reviews. Considering the minimal amount of money and time it would have required too, it would have been money well spent. If they have any sense they'll patch the game as soon as they can. It might repair some of the damage and cause some reviewers to revise their scores.

    8. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Xbots and Ntards don't know what to do! It's like watching an anthill that just got upturned. Mod bombing? Fanboy sarcasm? Insults? The months and months they spent fearing and attacking the game are all crumbling down...

      The early sales figures for Lair are going to upset the Xbots and Ntards...all that work for nothing.

    9. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, just was reading about the game over on N4G.com:

      http://www.gamerevolver.com/article-39-LAIR-gets-M edieval-in-the-PS3.html

      Looks like the usual Microsoft/Xbox fanboy sites like EGM and 1Up just used the game controls as an excuse to rip on the game. Pathetic. Nice to see real reviews coming out for the game.

    10. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm confused as to how you know how well Lair is doing at the cash register. I wouldn't mind if it did do well, since that would give the PS3 leverage, but the only thing I've seen is that it's #1 on the PS3 list at GameStop, which isn't saying much in and of itself. Especially since it doesn't show up on the overall best-sellers list at all.

      Rob

    11. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by toolie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You haven't actually played Lair, have you?

      --
      -- toolie
    12. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, responding to yourself is reaaaaaaaally coooool. It's like you're two different people! Snaazzzzyyy!!!

    13. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you play with a Dual Shock via usb adapter you can play with the sticks.

    14. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you ARE two different people!

    15. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of an idiot are you? Really?

    16. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ridge Racer! Riiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer!"

    17. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by DrXym · · Score: 1

      If dual shock works then that says to me the effort of providing a proper patch is minimal.

    18. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0

      I heard from Penny arcade some rather negative things about Lair.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    19. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by Ren.Tamek · · Score: 1
      I remember the frustration after encountering the gesture based spells in Black & White on the PC. Nothing has changed. Abstract gestures suck as much now as they did then.

      Yeah, boy was that game a flop! I'll just link wikipedia's list of failures which it encountered when it was released:


      * E3 2000 Game Critics Awards: Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best PC Game, Best Strategy Game
      * E3 1999 Game Critics Awards: Best Original Game
      * BAFTA Interactive Entertainment Awards 2001 for Interactivity and Moving Images
      * The Electronic Multimedia Awards. (EMMA) Gold Award Of Excellence
      * ECTS 2001 for PC Game of the Year Power Unlimited Benelux,PC Game of the Year CD Action Eastern Europe,PC Game of the Year PC Games Germany,PC Game of the Year KwVideogiochi.it Italy,PC Game of the Year PC Hemma Scandinavia, PC Game of the Year Solo Juegos.com Spain
      * PC World (US) for Best game of 2001
      * ACADEMY OF INTERACTIVE ARTS AND SCIENCES, Nominated for six awards. It won Computer Game Of The Year and Innovation in Computer Gaming
      * THE GAME DEVELOPERS CHOICE AWARDS (US) four awards. Excellence in Programming, Excellence in Game Design, Game Of The Year, Game Innovation Spotlight
      * Gamespy, Gamer's Choice Of The Year (Strategy)
      * GAMES MAGAZINE (USA) Game Of The Year
      * NY times, Reviewers choice of the year's best videogame.
      * PC Gameplay UK, Game of 2001
      * Cnet's top five games of the summer, #1.
      * CGW, voted number one by readers of CGW.
      * Joint highest PC game review score ever on IGN.com [9.7/10] (joint with Half Life 2)

      What a coaster that turned out to be.

      Now, I can't say I have been able to play lair yet, and it certainly did not recieve the same quality of reviews as black and white, but I see no reason not to give it the benefit of the doubt. Most of the reviews I read suggest that if they couldn't get to grips with the control scheme in the first hour of play the game is poorly designed. Most of the reccomendations i've read from gamers suggest that if you persist and learn the control scheme, the game is surprisingly rewarding. Who do I believe here? Those are not mutually exclusive statements. One thing is for sure: if the control scheme is like black and white, but hideously complex, i'm in.

      --
      "If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." - George Orwell, 1984
    20. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by DrXym · · Score: 1
      You're right Black & White did get a lot of awards and in some ways it was an amazing game. Gestures was not one of those ways. It sure as hell wouldn't have hurt the game to provide a keyboard or menu alternative to gestures either.

      I'd also point out that LAIR is not an amazing game. It has amazing graphics and the potential to be amazing but clearly the game play mechanics are not up to snuff. It doesn't help when the control scheme alienates reviewers and players with no alternative scheme to use. A small amount of work would have left the game with some dignity. I doubt it would have gotten 9s but it might have fallen into the 6-8 range.

    21. Re:Amazing Game Just Got Better by dank+zappingly · · Score: 1

      Vgchartz has Lair selling 92,441 copies 8th in the United States. They're not completely accurate I don't think, but for a game with universally bad reviews, the sales are pretty good. More notably, they have Warhawk selling over 107k, which doesn't include online sales.

  6. Playable? by the+Plums+in+us · · Score: 2, Funny

    PS3's Lair Playable Via Remote On PSP


    Well thank goodness! It sure isn't playable with the PS3 on it's own!
  7. Mounted dragon combat _simulator_?!?!? by Corngood · · Score: 4, Funny

    Too realistic... that's an interesting take on it. I guess most people prefer a less realistic take on dragon flying.

    1. Re:Mounted dragon combat _simulator_?!?!? by seebs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Compare arcade steering to the steering of, say, an actual large object... Or compare it to what actually happens if you're riding an animal and you pull on the reins. It ought to react well, over time, to a gentle nudge, and not reward wild twisting and yanking.

      In short, imagine driving an actual car, at freeway speeds, by yanking the wheel sharply (say, 90 degree turn of the wheel) every time you want to shift lanes. Would that work?

      No.

      But if you made a game where the controls reacted too much like an actual steering wheel, people would bash them as unresponsive or inclined to overrespond, because they expect a simplified interface.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    2. Re:Mounted dragon combat _simulator_?!?!? by Corngood · · Score: 1

      I actually do get what you're saying, it just seems absurd on the surface. Even with mythical creatures you can still use Newtonian dynamics, and try to make things internally consistent.

    3. Re:Mounted dragon combat _simulator_?!?!? by seebs · · Score: 1

      It is sorta ridiculous, but it makes sense if you're used to arguing over what's "realistic" in D&D! :)

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    4. Re:Mounted dragon combat _simulator_?!?!? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      If you're driving a car on the road, you can *feel* the car turning. If you're driving a car, this sense is a large part of deciding how far and fast to turn the wheel. It's all pretty much an unconcious process, I'm sure you remember steering too much or too little all the time when you started taking driving lessons. You lack this sensation when using a controler, even if it's a steering wheel with force feedback and whathaveyounot.

      You CANNOT make a computer car drive realistically without having some brain implants to fool the senses, so why not try to make it playable and drive the way people expect it to; based on the sparse feedback provided by the computer. Besides, without the resistance of a real car's steering wheel, why would anybody expect anything else than sharp turns? And that's only if you've got a steering wheel controller. Talking about realistic controls with an analog stick or pure motion is just ridiculous; very few things in real live are controlled by either of these means.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  8. That's crazy-talk by Tony · · Score: 1

    Forcing people to use tilt and gestures for flying with no alternate conventional control scheme was a TERRIBLE IDEA.

    Let's see-- "Forcing people to use *two joysticks* (one under each thumb) and two sets of crazy buttons, with *extra buttons under each index finger* is just insane!"

    The point is, the gameplay was built around the sixaxis controller. That's one of the things Sure, you could fly around, but you couldn't do much else. The shear variety of attack sequences available would be prohibitive. It'd be a button-mashing nightmare.

    The control scheme for flying is intuitive, easy-to-use, and makes for amazing gameplay.

    But, if you want a different controller scheme, you can always use your PSP.

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    1. Re:That's crazy-talk by DrXym · · Score: 1
      The control scheme for flying is intuitive, easy-to-use, and makes for amazing gameplay.

      No it isn't, or it wouldn't have been repeatedly panned by critics. Some people do not like twisting their wrists or making spastic abstract gestures to make their dragon / plane / duck react. The duck is reference to Super Rub A Dub - a simple tilt puzzle game where the single jump gesture managed to be screwed up. Especially when there is a stick and a surfeit of buttons to provide an alternative scheme with little developmental effort.

      Warhawk managed to support both tilt and stick which is perhaps why reviews have been very complementary of the controls for offering choice. Adding an alternate control scheme is not hard and the payoff is clear to see in the reviews and in the final game.

      If Factor 5 have any sense, their first patch will provide the alternate scheme. If they do it fast enough they might even get reviewers to reappraise their scores.

  9. Where do i sign up? by Willuknight · · Score: 0

    Wow, so you're telling me that I can buy this awesome console with state of the art graphics, processing power which outputs video in true high definition resolution with amazing texture mapping, and then play the games on a PSP with a 480 x 272 on a 6" screen, with a system that is almost as powerful as the PS2? Thats amazing!

    --
    Do not anger the Karma Whores, for they don't bathe often, and might decide to come visit you in person. -Ryan Amos
  10. Translation: by Alzheimers · · Score: 1

    Translation: It's a very nice control scheme, it just doesn't suit the purposes of the game.

    Sounds like they made a great 747 flight simulator, but replaced the model of the plane with a dragon. AFAIK, 747s don't have the best handling for, say, picking up cows off a bridge.

  11. steering and such by bakamaki · · Score: 1

    "But if you made a game where the controls reacted too much like an actual steering wheel, people would bash them as unresponsive or inclined to overrespond, because they expect a simplified interface." I believe what you are looking for is called Gran Turismo. And it's good.

  12. PA hates the game, too by LKM · · Score: 1

    Penny Arcade. Next you'll be saying Bill Gates personally drew the comic, huh?

    1. Re:PA hates the game, too by iceph03nix · · Score: 1

      Penny-arcade is known to not be sony friendly. Though in the past their dislike has held to SOE and not so much for SCEA as a whole.

      --
      Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity
    2. Re:PA hates the game, too by LKM · · Score: 1

      Come on. This is starting to become ridiculous. PA is an equal-opportunity hate site. They complain about everything that sucks, but they also have the balls to say if something is good, even if general consensus disagrees. In all the years of reading them, I've never felt that they are prefer any console or manufacturer.

  13. EULA by greedyturtle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Better be careful, it probably violates the EULA if you attempt to load it on a different platform... you know, like trying to rip your DVD to AVI?