New iPod Checksum Cracked, Linux Supported

An anonymous reader writes "After 36 hours of reverse engineering, the method for producing the checksum on new iPods has been discovered." You can also get linux support working if that's what you crave for your shiny new toy.

Comments

What's the draw?

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Is it the iTunes store? Is it the sound quality? Is it the looks of the device?

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?

I don't get it at all.

What I don't get more than that is the people who buy the iPod just to put Linux on it. That actually causes negative understanding.

Re:What's the draw?

[Poromenos1]

It's the scrollwheel.

Re:What's the draw?

[mrchaotica]

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?

Integration with iTunes (not necessarily the store), such as syncing Smart Playlists, and 3rd-party accessory support that's an order of magnitude greater than for any other music player.

Re:What's the draw?

[Andy Dodd]

It has a more polished user interface and more third-party accessory support than any other player.

When shopping for an MP3 player, I considered alternatives (and in fact looked at alternatives first), and in the end went with iPod because:
1) Most of the alternatives I looked at weren't any cheaper than the iPod
2) Most of them got slammed in reviews for bad user interfaces
3) Most of them were not available in B&M stores allowing me to return it easily if I hated the UI.

In short, in the end the iPod wound up being the "safe bet", and unlike most Apple products, wasn't grossly overpriced compared to the competition. (Disclaimer: This was over a year ago, things may have changed since then.)

Re:What's the draw?

[Poromenos1]

It's not actually integration with iTunes (it's the most bloated piece of crap I've seen since RealPlayer), but the fact that there is any integration at all, i.e. a database of songs you can search and sort any way you want. Plus there's a really intuitive interface to control it. If there was another company that had that I'd buy its offer, I don't like Apple's overpriced hardware.

Re:What's the draw?

[Lumpy]

It's compatability with 3rd party devices.

I can take an iPod plug it into a connector in my car and completely control it from my steering wheel and see the info on the stereo's display. works perfectly. I can do the same with my Crestron Whole house audio system, my alarm clock, etc...

No other mp3 player on the market can do that. NONE. Apple opened up the connector interface and had a rs232 control interface down in that connector so other devices can control it, All other mp3 makers sit in the corner curled up screaming "MINE MINE!" or are not smart enough to think about 3rd party control like that.

That is why I use it, my daughter uses it, and I reccomend the iPod to all my clients what are doing whole house automation and audio integration. Only the ipod can do advanced integration that is seamless from the car to the home to the bedroom. (even the wife if you buy a iGazim attachment)

That is why.

Re:What's the draw?

[leuk_he]

I think you do not actually want to put linux on it, i think that the issue here is that the iPod is linux supported, meaning that you can transfer music from and to your linux desktop.

Linux support is so obvious for 99 out of 100 usb mp3 player out there it is not even worth mentioning. These mp3 players just behave like a generic USB pen disk. That you need a special (circumvention?) program for a iPod is the strange issue here.

Re:What's the draw?

[tgd]

Here's a few reasons that are valid to those who don't have Macs anyway (and its a no brainer if you use other Apple products):

1) Easy connection to cars. My iPod plugs into my truck's (factory) radio, and I get all the music info on there as well as easy browsing of the music. All the factory controls work, and its hidden in the glove box.
2) Lots of 3rd party speaker/dock solutions.
3) The iPod camera adapter.

The iPod camera adapter is really a very under-reported item, I think. I recently was in Alaska and didn't want to bring my laptop with me. My iPod has about 25g of free space on it, and I burned through 2/3 of that pulling pictures each day off my two digital cameras, and was able to use it to show pictures to my family (although it'd be nice if they added RAW viewing to it).

If you use it as a stand alone player in your pocket, then you're absolutely right.

Re:What's the draw?

[nsanders]

Never looked at the Sansa's huh? $50-$100 cheaper, they have a voice recorder, SD expansion (extra 2gb of space!), great accessory choices and a great product. The thing I like most is that there's no "disconnecting" with the Sansa. Just unplug it and go.

When my iPod died I got a Sansa and I love it. My 10gb Sansa (8gb + 2gb SD) cost $100 cheaper than a 4GB Nano.

Re:What's the draw?

[walt-sjc]

4) Availability of accessories.

That's huge. You can get iPod interfaces for most higher-end car stereos for example, not to mention the plethora of docks, cases, etc.

Re:What's the draw?

[AmaDaden]

It's not that the iPod is great it's just that it has nothing major wrong with it. I've seen a lot mp3 players that were ok but had one glaring flaw. Battery life, UI, file accessibility, storage size...etc. Plus at this point there is so much extra software and hardware for it that any other player would have to do a lot to break in to the market.

What I don't get more than that is the people who buy the iPod just to put Linux on it.

If you are referring to the story that was not the issue. The problem was that the default iPod software on the incoming generation of iPod would ignore a play list not made by iTunes software. So all Linux users (who can't use iTunes because it's not on Linux) would have been left in the dust. The headline was a bit misleading.

Re:What's the draw?

[Sciros]

Only the ipod can do advanced integration that is seamless from the car to the home to the bedroom. (even the wife if you buy a iGazim attachment) WHAT THE... seamless integration with the wife?... Just what exactly is an iGazim attachment and would one have to take his daughter to the doctor if she asks about getting one...

Re:What's the draw?

[RabidMonkey]

For me, it's iTunes. I know that sounds crazy, but if you get beyond the bloat and horrible interface ...

I don't have a lot of free time to go hopping from store to store looking for CDs, and I don't listen to regular radio (CBC or bust), so I don't get exposed to a lot of new music. But, when I do have some free time, I can fire up iTunes and checkout music at home, quickly. And, if I like it, in a matter of minutes I can have the music on my desktop and iPod, for less than I would pay in a music store. Sure, theres DRM, but I don't care, I'm playing the music on my iPod. And, if I don't want to play it there, I convert to mp3, or burn it directly from iTunes.

Yeah, it's not fantastic, but I want to support artists whose music I like. Since I'm much more likely to do that in iTunes than in a music store, and I'm not going to just download their music and not have them get paid for it (however little they make off an album, it's still money in their pocket they wouldn't get if I .torrent'd it), I stick with my iPod and their stupid bloaty software that frequently uses up more memory than even memory sucking firefox or WoW.

Plus, theres the scrollwheel.

$0.02 CDN

Re:What's the draw?

[Doc Ruby]

The white earbud wires signal to people (especially the cuter ones who can't think so good) that they can have sex with you before they notice that you're a geek with a "LiPod".

Re:What's the draw?

[Zonk (troll)]

When I was looking for an MP3 player a few years ago, it had the best price/storage ratio. Everything else I looked at either only had half the storage for around $50-100 less, or was the same and cost $50-100 more. So, I got the 60gb 4th gen iPod. To this day it still works fine, in fact I'm listing to some Static-X on it at the moment. I use it most of the day, even when driving (through the line in port, I had to replace the stereo for that).

The only thing that was a disappointment with it was the headphones, which, IMHO, sound awful. So I had to spend another $20 on a decent set of portable headphones. The iPod's sound quality is decent, though I greatly prefer the M-Audio Delta 1010lt in my home computer...

I'm probably going to buy something new around May, something that's 80gb+ and ideally something that supports Vorbis. As I'm fed up with using GTKPod to manage it, ideally I'd like to be able to manage it with rsync (all of my music is properly sorted, tagged, and has the artwork embedded in it). Does anyone have a recommendation?

Re:What's the draw?

[Constantine XVI]

Sansa View.
Launches October, roughly the size/shape of old Nano, 3:4 screen taking most of the face, plays most sane video formats, retains muSD slot, gains SDHC support
8GB for 150, 16GB for 200

Re:What's the draw?

[metamatic]

Find me another audio player which:

• Has good sound quality (please cite reviews)
• Has a capacity of 80GB or more
• Plays MP3 and MP4 audio
• Has an easy to use UI
• Fits in a pocket

...but doesn't require proprietary software, and I might switch.

If you can't find one, then you've answered your own question.

Re:What's the draw?

[pthor1231]

Both you are your parent are wrong. Neither one is definitively better than the other, for simple fact that people like different interfaces. A lot of people I work with seems to like the nub mouse on ibm laptops. I personally can't stand using it. Does this make the touchpad style of laptop control better or worse? No, it just means they are two effective methods of input that people can use, similar to the Rio / Apple issue.

Re:What's the draw?

[cromar]

I think the poster was referring to the iGasm.

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

The scroll wheel actually tends to piss me off. Especially if you're doing something like exercise, it's all too easy to overshoot with the dang scroll wheel.

Re:What's the draw?

[timster]

I propose Timster's Law: in every argument about the iPod, someone will eventually resort to bringing up a product that is not available, either because it was discontinued or hasn't been released.

I also suggest that once this has occurred, the discussion should cease (much like a Godwin). My hope is that such a rule would put an end to the pointless arguments over the device. People buy the iPod because they like it, and they pay for it themselves; why is this a problem?

Re:What's the draw?

[Poromenos1]

That's true, but I'd rather not spend three days pressing the "next" arrow 800 times like I did with my MuVo. Much faster to go to the song's general vicinity and slow down.

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

No-one says you'd have to press a "next" button 800 times. The firmware of the competing MP3 player could just as easily detect a sustained button press as a request for an accelerating scroll through the song list. Essentially, you can do exactly what the iPod's scroll wheel does with the scroll wheel. Whether or not any competing device has actually done that is another story. But there's nothing inherently special about the scroll wheel. You can accomplish the same functionality and more precision with standard buttons.

Re:What's the draw?

[mrchaotica]

As I understand it, it has been tested and is known not to work because the new iPods have completely different hardware than the old ones.

Re:What's the draw?

[fastest fascist]

For me, personally, the way those things look has been one of the major reasons I've never really even considered getting one.

Re:What's the draw?

[NiceGeek]

"It's not actually integration with iTunes (it's the most bloated piece of crap I've seen since RealPlayer)"

Only on Windows. It runs very, very nicely in OS X.

Re:What's the draw?

[EggyToast]

iTunes on a mac isn't the "bloated," error-prone kludge it is on Windows. I'm not sure why that is, especially since it's supposed to be some sort of trojan horse for the Mac lifestyle or some other marketing thing, but iTunes on OS X is nice 'n speedy.

It also comes pre-installed on all Macs, so there's that going for it.

Re:What's the draw?

[OrangeTide]

When the iPod first came out other MP3 players on the market had just terrible interfaces, buggy firmware and were either big and heavy or small and cheaply made. Apple fanbois still believe this is what the mp3 player market is like, but times have changed somewhat. There are still a lot of bad players out there, but there are some good ones now too.

People get an iPod these days because they are not willing to research a different brand. They've come to trust Apple's brand. I would warn you not to just go buy some mp3 player without going online and looking at a review first though, I've tried a few and some are good some are pretty bad. example: I really liked the player from Transcend I got, but I didn't like that after 3 months it locked up and refused to reset. something happen to the FAT file-system that caused it to get stuck in a loop every time it powered on.

Re:What's the draw?

[xENoLocO]

I swear to god i'm the only person on this website who sees a flaw with the "it's not X, its you!" argument.

Same thing with linux. It's not linux, it's you! You're the problem!

No, guys. Things should be usable in a natural state. You should be comfortable with something as soon as you start using it. If you're not, then the products usability has failed you. If someone thinks the scrollwheel is better, that's a perfectly valid opinion. You can't tell them their opinion is wrong because YOUR mp3 player works just by holding down a button instead of the scroll wheel. Guess what... that's not natural to this person.

And no, I don't own an ipod. Yes, I've tried linux. No, I don't use a mac. I'm just a usability guy who builds websites.

And sorry if this seems like a rant. :)

Re:What's the draw?

[Tacvek]

There are some other reasons too. First of all, take iTunes. iTunes may not a real windows-like interface, and some apparently consider the Windows version to be bloated, but it does organize music well, and is easy enough to teach to people who are not computer literate. Some other players have good software, but others have software that is terrible.

iPod is easy to use. There is no denying that the scroll wheel interface is highly intuitive, and accessing features is fairly easy. Some other player do have interfaces that are just as good.

The iPod does not have feature bloat. Many other mp3 players have many extra features, but most of the times those features are very poorly implemented, and has the effect of just wasting menu space. These poorly implemented features also tend to drag the perception of the whole player down.

The headphones. For low to low mid-end earbuds, the ones that come with the iPod are some of the best. Of course, many headphones, or high-end earbuds are better.

The iPod has many accessories. It is one of the few players to support near full integration with some car head units (receivers).

It's name. Tell somebody you want an "iPod Nano" and they will be able to remember the name. There is no part of the name that looks like "z647", which people are quite likely to forget. Even if you wanted to specify the capacity it is still easier to remember. Many of the generations have distinct names like iPod Color, and iPod Video, which are easy to remember.

It has Apple's reputation for ease of use and reliability behind it. Most of the other closest competitors are marketed under brands with well known poor models, which can really hurt

The simple fact is that while many players are as good or better in some of those categories, they are lacking in one or more of the others. The combination of these atributes is why the iPod is the leading mp3 player.

Just a side note: people who are mentioning gap-less playback, please realize that many people have no such albums, and have no interest in this feature, so it should not be surprising that apple waited for so long before implementing.

Re:What's the draw?

[rapiddescent]

ex-Rio Karma owners who want Radio, USB mass storage, full support for Linux, gapless, colour screen, Ogg Vorbis - should really look at the Trekstor Vibez. It has the same software and sounds excellent - it's like a 2007 Karma.

If you just want to connectup the old karma to linux then look no further than the splendid karma on linux project. It's amazing what some seriously clever people, fuse and some helpful hints from Sigmatel folks can produce. it integrates with Amarok as well!

rd

Re:What's the draw?

[Kohath]

People buy the iPod because they like it, and they pay for it themselves; why is this a problem?

Hey! It's a problem because we are the experts, ok? People should ask us what to buy. And we'll suggest some sort of unheard-of niche device, because that's why you asked an expert. Do you need an expert to suggest the most popular device? No. Do you need an expert to configure something that's easy to use? No. We're important. Don't you know that? We know better. We can't look down on the ignorant masses when we acknowledge they made the right choice. So they didn't, no matter how happy they are.

I can't believe you even asked.

Re:What's the draw?

[JazzLad]

Exercise? You must be new here.

Re:What's the draw?

[Kohath]

It works fine out of the box. It works exactly the way Apple intended it to work.

If you want to use it in a way it's not designed to be used, then don't be surprised if it doesn't "work out of the box" for that.

My efforts to use my iPod as a waffle-iron have met with little success so far.

Re:What's the draw?

[somersault]

Sure you can make something natural to use, but that doesn't mean the end result will be useful. A tricycle is easier to ride than a bicycle because you don't really need to balance it manually, but in some situations a 2 wheeled bike will be much more useful, which makes it more flexible. Sometimes people have to do this thing called 'learning' before they can get the best out of a device.

Of course for a device that plays MP3s it should be simple to make one that people will just understand because most people already know how to operate a computer, but someone that has never used a computer isn't just going to be able to pick up an iPod and say "I know this! This is a scroll-wheel!" etc. A combination of a touchscreen with a slider bar at the side (like any OS window) to go quickly to a vague area, then a more precise area to scroll around locally would be an ideal option probably. Maybe 2 fingers for fast scrolling, and 1 for more fine control

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

Actually, you can't achieve anywhere near the same precision with standard buttons as you can with a scrollwheel.

I call B.S.

Feel free to make the argument that you like the scrollwheel better. But more precise? Nope, not at all. At least not in all cases.

If I'm running down the road or in a car on a bumpy dirt road, it can be damn well near impossible to do a single click up or down on the list. A button-based system would be cake: Tap the button and you're golden. But if you're in an environment where your body is anything but still, trying to move the scrollwheel exactly one notch can be a frustrating exercise in futility. Plus there's no tactile feel that tells you where your fingers are in relation to the scrollwheel, so you have to look at it to skip to the next song or whatever. And when I have my iPod in an arm-strapped case, I can't reliably interact with the scrollwheel through the plastic, I have to take it out of the case. None of these would be issues with a button-based player.

If there's one reason that I've considered ditching my iPod and getting some other MP3 player, it's the scrollwheel.

Yeah, the scrollwheel is nifty, it's different, and it's novel for about 5 seconds... thereafter, it's a pain in the *ss.

Re:What's the draw?

[ZorinLynx]

The new earbuds are an improvement over the older ones, but they slip out of your ears unless you get foam covers for them.

In any case, earbuds are easily replaceable, and if you buy an nice high end set, you'll have great sound quality.

The earbuds that typically come with ALL MP3s players suck; typically. It's always best to upgrade them if you're anywhere near an audiophile. And of course, you have to use lossless compression because if you're an audiophile, MP3s suck. Not to mention you have to listen in a soundproofed baffled room, and you have to have not flown on an aircraft recently so your ears haven't been subjected to pressure changes.

Heh, I'm going too far. In any case, default earbuds suck. Buy better ones. :)

Re:What's the draw?

[mrchaotica]

They don't want you to get your music anywhere but from a very narrow distribution channel... The iPod is a very nice gizmo for people who are ready to sign on to the whole Apple/Record Label "program" and not deviate in any way.

Way to take my quote out of context! What part of "not necessarily the store" did you not understand? Aside from the "free music Tuesday" stuff and a few Pepsi caps, I've never used the store and I don't intend to start!

if I make it recognize my iPod as a hard drive, I lose all the playlist functionality

That's not true. If you enable disk use it has to be unmounted before it's unplugged, but it still functions as an iPod.

It doesn't recognize my ogg files, or my flac files

That's the only complaint in your post that makes sense.

Re:What's the draw?

[Trillan]

Actually, yes, you can say with certainty that the scroll wheel is better.

Why? Because the operator can move her finger slower when she approaches the song she wants. The scroll wheel can detect the speed the finger is moving at. In short, not only can you accelerate as the operator continues to spin the wheel, but when she starts to slow how fast she's spinning the wheel, you can detect that and respond appropriately. The finger speed is something the operator is aware of. If the screen scrolls too fast, she'll slow down. If it scrolls too slowly, she'll speed up.

With a button, in the best case you have a button that can sense not only if it is being touched, but how hard it is being touched. The feedback isn't as direct, though. There's a reason the steering wheel in a car hasn't been replaced with two buttons, and the gas and brake with two more each. (Not to mention, most buttons have only two states. The really good ones have three states - off, light touch, heavy touch.)

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

Actually, yes, you can say with certainty that the scroll wheel is better.

No, actually you can't.

Why? Because the operator can move her finger slower when she approaches the song she wants.

Oftentimes after the thing has overshot the target. And then you get back into a zone where it can be hard as heck to target a single entry--I can't say how many times I've seen what I want on the screen, I scroll up only to end up a song above it, then scroll down only to end up a song below it. And that's when I'm not moving. Doing any of this when you're running or on a bumpy road is simply frustrating.

Perhaps you can make the claim that the scrollwheel is better for quickly getting into the general area of a song, but it's certainly less precise when you're in the general area of the song and you want to select it. The claim has been made that it's more precise than buttons. No, it's definitely not. It may be faster at general navigation, but it's not more precise.

There's a reason the steering wheel in a car hasn't been replaced with two buttons, and the gas and brake with two more each.

Yeah, because you don't need to navigate your car to a millimeter accuracy nor adjust your gas to within a milliliter/minute accuracy. Like the scrollwheel, the car controls are great for general navigation but not for precise control.

Re:What's the draw?

[MichaelWhi]

You can just change behaviour in the Preferences...

Re:What's the draw?

[lazy_playboy]

I'd say it is possible to use a car steering wheel to get millimeter accuracy, but only because you get force feedback. The ipod scroll wheel relies on visual feedback which esentially doesn't work in that context.
(I agree with you but for a slightly different reason :-)

Re:What's the draw?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, it's a bloated, error-prone kludge on OS X as well, but on OS X, considering the rest of the system, you don't really notice.

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

Trivial to prove wrong.

Then why haven't you done it? :)

You can overshoot with either. With the scroll wheel (only), you can slow as you approach what you want.

You can overshoot with either, but with buttons you at least have the option of precise single-taps when you're already in the right area of the list. The problem here isn't the fast-scrolling. I personally don't like the fast scrolling of the iPod, but I can live with it. My problem is that when I'm already close to my target song, it's still hard to target the song I want whereas just a tap or two with buttons would get me precisely the song I want and I'd be done with it--even on a bumpy road or while running.

The handle on a gas pump is a better analogy, really.

Again, you are seldom trying to get exactly 0.001 gallons of gas in the car. The scroll wheel and the gas pump is tolerable for general navigation and approximation, but not for when you're looking for precision. With the gas pump, you don't need it. With the scroll wheel to select a song, you do.

Compare that to a button, where you'll end up several hundred songs past if it supports any kind of acceleration, or with 800 pushes if it doesn't.

Please don't tell me that you really don't have enough imagination to envision any other type of button-based interface that could effectively navigate 800 songs without a scrollwheel and without 800 button pushes? If you can't, I assume you're not in the software or hardware design industry. You're probably an accountant since accounting is a great industry for people that lack imagination and originality.

Re:What's the draw?

[SanityInAnarchy]

No, guys. Things should be usable in a natural state. You should be comfortable with something as soon as you start using it. If you're not, then the products usability has failed you.

Say I can't read, and I pick up a book. Has the book's usability failed me?

No, it's either me, or my education, or my parents. The book works for anyone who can read; it's not the book's fault, or the book's failure, that I can't read it.

Now, in the case of Linux, if Linux does something in a different way, one that's not natural to you... It could actually be a failure, like the nightmare that is configuring X, on the occasions where it doesn't just work. (I've gotten good at it, but whenever I get someone's graphics working, I tell them to save the xorg.conf, because I don't want to go through that again.)

Or, it could be something that was a conscious design decision, that many people -- including non-programmers -- find to be much more usable. Only it's not as usable to you, because it's not Windows. Windows is usable, because you've used it so much that so many things are second nature to you.

In this case, Linux is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't. If it's more like Windows, it's easier to use, but it gets accused of being a copycat, not innovative, no point in using it when you can just use the real thing (real Windows). If it innovates, it gets accused of being hard to use, because people who've used nothing but Windows all their lives can't adapt to a new interface.

So, sometimes, it is actually Linux that's unusable. But sometimes, Linux is actually doing the right thing, even if it's unusable to you. In these cases, I suggest you try to swallow your pride and listen to what these people are trying to tell you -- even if you're right, showing some humility is a lot more likely to get you help, even from people who were behaving like assholes a moment before.

Re:What's the draw?

[letxa2000]

Yes, I am a software developer, and I've seen how they solve it: Either acceleration (which I mentioned, but you ignored because it didn't match your argument) or 800 button pushes (which I also mentioned, and you seem to have fixed your eyes on).

I didn't ignore. It wasn't the issue. My question was not how others have done it. My question to you was whether or not you were creative enough to be able to imagine a button-based solution that would be both accurate and also allow quick navigation among 800+ songs? The scroll wheel has the "advantage"* of acceleration for quick general navigation while buttons have the advantage of precise navigation for specific selection. Can you imagine some solution that would provide both advantages? I'm sure you can unless you try to be intentionally obtuse.

* I say "advantage" because I really am not convinced it is one. When I'm at the top of the list and want to get to a song in the M's, I'm screwed. If I start going moderately fast, the dang thing zips into fast mode and zips me right on past M's into the O's, P's, or even R's. So I'm forced to carefully go slow so that the thing doesn't get into fast-scroll mode--and navigating 800+ songs with the scroll wheel in slow mode is no faster than doing it with a logical button configuration would be. About the only time the scroll wheel's "fast mode" is useful to me is if I have to be in the A's or B's and want to quickly zip to the Y's. For anything else, I find myself carefully moderating my speed so I don't lose control of the scroll and zip to the end of the alphabet.

The problem is that the alphabet is too short for it to work efficiently. If the alphabet had 100 or 150 characters, the fast mode would be great. But it's only 26 characters long. By the time the thing gets into fast mode, I'm usually 1/4th of the way through the alphabet. Once in fast mode, it seems I can almost immediately skip 10+ characters by the time I can respond to the fact that I'm now in fast mode. So getting into fast mode might take about 7 characters and then I almost immediately get another 10 added to that as I react to now being in fast mode. So by the time I "slow down," I'm already at the 17th letter of the alphabet. Again, the normal solution is intentionally avoiding fast mode at which point I'd rather have a semi-intelligent button design. And, no, 800+ button presses is not the most intelligent way to do it, even if that's the way it's been done by button-based units so far.

usable?

[lutz7755]

Does anyone actually use an ipod that runs linux, or is it just a "neat to have" type thing?

Re:usable?

[ls -la]

The "Linux support" mentioned in the summary is so that you can use/sync/update the iPod while running linux on your computer, not so that you can run linux on your iPod.
Although it would be interesting to have an open-source iPod OS...

Re:usable?

[morgan_greywolf]

Although it would be interesting to have an open-source iPod OS... Ask and ye shall receive!

Re:usable?

[dionoea]

Rockbox (or iPodlinux) unfortunately don't support the newer iPods (nano 2G and up, ipod classic and ipod touch) since Apple changed most of the hardware and added heavy encryption on the bootloader/firmware update mechanism.

hopefully

[russellh]

we'll get amarok on the mac soon, too.

Re:hopefully

[xophos]

1. Install Debian.
2. Install Amarok.
Shouldn't take more than an hour.
So: No hoping needed here.

Re:It makes me wonder

[falcon5768]

because then you run into issues with the RIAA and MPAA who want the iPod locked down even harder than it is. At least by having it somewhat locked Apple can reasonably say that they tried to prevent users from hacking it so its not their fault if people do.

Apple rarely fights hard when it comes to hacking of their products. Often any "fix" they give out is easily removed by people in such a way that it is obvious Apple wasn't even trying.

You have little far to look at the "please dont pirate this software" code in OS X intel.

DMCA violation?

[mi]

I doubt, Apple will tarnish its image by pressing it, but DMCA seems to apply. In fact, it may be out of Apple's hands. IANAL, but they may need to clarify, that they added the new checksum/whatever not to limit whatever it is, DMCA will try to help them uphold, but for some other, non-DMCA protected reason.

Otherwise, the prosecutors may have to enforce the Act whether Apple wants them to or not...

Re:DMCA violation?

[Chanc_Gorkon]

DMCA should not be in effect here. First, the hash isn't for copy protection. That much is clear. If it was, then you would not be able to see the song's unless the key was present. Besides, if it's SHA1, it's not very effective for copy protection anyway.

I bet that the only reason the hash is created is for some database integrity verification the ipod does.....just making sure everything is ok before writing data (play counts) to the database.

Re:DMCA violation?

[Arabani]

I bet that the only reason the hash is created is for some database integrity verification the ipod does.....just making sure everything is ok before writing data (play counts) to the database. If it really were just about data integrity, they wouldn't need to include the iPod's serial number hash; furthermore, a perfectly good database would work on every iPod, not just the one it came from. Since that is clearly not the case, the logical conclusion is that the hash was added for the sole purpose of locking out 3rd party software.

It's nice to see Apple's "hard work" broken in such a short period of time, though.

Good because linux support is better

[Tweekster]

iTunes doenst even come close to the power of gtkpod

I hate poorly named mp3s, gtkpod can get my entire ipod properly organized in a matter of minutes because of the nifty variety of views.

Re:Good because linux support is better

[Tweekster]

You have to play with it, everything in the various lists is editable. Which means I can rename my "Techno/Trance" category to "Trance" in one single rename, extremely quickly. I can rename all the "Lincoln Park" to Linkin Park.

iTunes doesnt even come close to that ease of use and power.

itunes honestly isnt that great looking either but atleast gtkpod has features that take advantage of its layout (the multi tab panes and lists)

Re:Good because linux support is better

[querist]

Except that even with following the instructions for gtkpod very carefully it still borked my iPod mini. And I lost some music in the process. Sorry. I'm not that confident in 3rd party solutions for my iPod quite yet.

I am glad that they're still working on it, because I feel that people should be able to do this (on general principle). It's an audio player. I don't see why it is such a big deal to Apple that it only work on OS X and Windows, but that's why I'm a scientist and not a business person.

-Q

Re:Good because linux support is better

[brainnolo]

You spend way too much time renaming things probably.

Erm... Quarts-wm?

[asphaltjesus]

It's an explitive laced how-to, but installing Amarok not hard to do. http://www.junkthatrocks.com/archives/000294.php

Unimpressive

[packetmon]

36 hours... Well after years and years most still have not cracked the method for avoiding the Slashdot effect

Re:Half way there

[kebes]

Cracking the stupidity was half the battle, making it easy to use is the other half.

Seriously! And at this pathetically slow rate, we won't have that functionality until Wednesday!

Re:Good because linux support is more better

[morgan_greywolf]

The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis There. Fixed the subject line for you.

A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum?

[victim]

The news around the web is all about this being an evil DRM checksum, but given how quickly the generation algorithm was found, isn't it possible that it is an integrity checksum?

A user can unplug a device at any time, even in the middle of a catalog write. It only seems prudent to checksum the data to make sure you don't have a corrupt file.

I'd be interested to hear if this is a tricky crypto algorithm, or the sort of simple MD5 or CRC of data that a programmer would whip out for integrity. This is important because if the intent was integrity we can expect it to not change. The problem is solved. If it was intended to detect reverse engineered and possibly incorrect files then we can look forward to more algorithms in the future.

TFA was silent on the matter. <wtbw> can i hear a fuck yeah? didn't really tell me much.

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum?

[squiggleslash]

It only seems prudent to checksum the data to make sure you don't have a corrupt file.

Well, yeah, but why would you want to actively disable access to the parts of the music library that aren't corrupt simply because some of it might be? It's not as if the iPod will explode (or become more corrupt) because of a bad read.

I'm having a hard time understanding the justification for this change, both the "It's just to prevent corruption" explanation, and the "It's a conspiracy by Apple against GNOME users" one. In the absence of anything concrete from Apple, it seems all we can do is speculate.

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum?

[Arabani]

It was a "tricky" hash in that they salted the DB with some additional data (in this case the serial number) before encrypting it. Had it been solely about data integrity, the DB would be transferable between different iPods. Instead, a DB that works perfectly fine on on iPod doesn't work at all on another. That's not data integrity checking. So that leaves the only other explanation - Apple was having a preliminary pass at locking out 3rd party applications (I say preliminary because it appears to me that Apple could've tried a lot harder).

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum?

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Except Apple makes diddly on iTunes Music Store sales. Apple's whole reason for the store is not for us....it's for the users who have no idea how to rip a CD. iTMS exists so that the non techy can fill their iPod without having to spend alot of time ripping cd's and so Apple can sell more iPods. Us geeks know better.

Sansa what?

[penp]

I bought a 6gb Sansa (the e200 series) when they came out. I loved it. Until it broke. It turns out a lot of them have a problem with the phone jack, as it's not seated correctly, and plugging in your headphones causes stress on the jack that eventually causes one or both of the channels to go out. This is what happened to mine. I now have a 6gb USB drive that I can play music to one of my ears. People buy Ipods for a reason. They're well built, and have great sound quality (after my sansa died I borrowed my g/f's Nano for a little while, and I was surprised at how great it sounded in comparison). I have never heard of anyone complaining (with regards to the Ipod) of similar issues that come with buying cheaper players (such as cheaper quality hardware) If there's anything I'll give apple, it's that they know how to make sturdy hardware.

Re:Sansa what?

[penp]

Does anyone have any experience with installing Rockbox onto an ipod as to whether or not it would affect sound quality? I wonder if that would help resolve DRM / Itunes issues.

Re:Half way there

[Constantine XVI]

Knowing the community, we can likely expect full integration with most (activley maintained) iPod libraries on Linux within the week.

Just like Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a quick howto on using wtbw's code in linux to use a new generation iPod. I was answering this question repeatedly in IRC, so i decided to post this up:

1. Download the code.

2. Plug your ipod in and make sure it is mounted and run:

sudo lsusb -v | grep -i Serial

Look for your iPod device, and the firewireID should be the 16 character long hex string shown.

It should look something like this: 00A1234567891231

3. Edit main.cpp in the hash_crack directory and read the commetns at the top. You should insert your firewire ID where the comments specify, then run make to compile the hash program.

4. Next, sync your ipod with gtkpod, rhythmbox, banshee or Amarok, or whatever ur used to just like normal. Once this is complete, you should have an ipod with songs on it, that refuses to view the songs. To make it "see" the songs, u need to run the hash program we just compiled on the iTunesDB file. This should happen something like this: ./gethash /path/to/iPod/iPod_Control/iTunes/iTunesDB

This should output the proper hash for the current state of the iTunesDB, as well as the old hash for the previous state of the iTunesDB. We just need the first value.
5. Write this new hash value to the proper location in the iTunesDB where the hash is stored at address 0×58 of the iTunesDB file. This can be done with a program such as bvi.
Note: You will need to do the process of getting the hash on your iTunesDB every time you even so much as change a song name, or upload new music or video files.

iPods running Linux

[Fuji Kitakyusho]

Linux on the iPod? Hmmm. Could you imagine a Beowulf cluster of...

Re:Interesting news but..

[suv4x4]

Apple likes to keep things a secret until the show so they get the "oh my gosh" factor going.

Not just the "oh my gosh" factor, but as we learned with the last iPod introduction, learning that there's something hot out there makes people buy Apple stock, and short right after the event for some speculative profit (which results in the Apple stock falling).

I guess this the Apple stock falling is what pisses him off most.

Maybe it's for a faster sync

[ishmalius]

A third possibility is that it is for a faster sync with the host. If you maintain hash digests on the ipod and the host, then you can test for equality by just comparing the hashes. If they are identical, then there is no need to sync. You can skip comparing everything else bit-by-bit.

Re:iPhone

[b0s0z0ku]

Why have use WiFi that consumes battery, and have a manual sync, when instead you could sync automatically with no user intervention during the 2 hour charge cycle?

Because I don't want to keep the dock near a computer all the time. Also, I may want to pull tunes from more than one source -- get music off a friend's box for example without having to carry a cable around all the time.

Not to mention if you could sync OTHER things like contacts and calendar over WiFi or EDGE, that would solve one of the main problems of business usage -- how to sync everything over the air for mobile users. Just set up a VPN and have a protected share containing contact and calendar data. Over the air sync is a big deal in the business world, and why not have the iPhone be sellable to as many people as possible? It's not like the code for air sync would be difficult to write.

-b.

Re:iTunes can do everything you listed.

[zippthorne]

I don't have an apple key, you insensitive clod.

It's kind of silly to assume that everyone who downloads iTunes will buy an entire Macintosh computer to run it on.

Re:Not a good article

[gnasher719]

>> I didn't really understand what the problem was to begin with--that is, exactly what Apple did that was locking Linux et al out of iPod.

iTunes copies two things onto an iPod when you sync: The files containing music, and a database of those files, so that the iPod can find the music quicker.

With the new iPods, the database has a checksum, which is based on the contents of the database and the serial number of the iPod. If that checksum is not correct, the iPod will refuse to play any music. Obviously iTunes knows how to calculate the checksum and stores it on the iPod.

Linux applications that could download music files + database onto an iPod didn't have the code to calculate the checksum, so after using a Linux application to fill a new iPod with music, the iPod wouldn't work. The hack that has been developed within 36 hours is really a hack: First you have to run a program that reads the serial number. Then you modify the hack program by typing in that serial number into the source code. Then you run whatever software you used to copy music onto the iPod. Then compile and run the "hack" program: It will read the database, calculate the checksum and add the checksum to the database, and everything works.

That is of course a horrible complicated way (for the end user) to do it. Expect all the Linux music players to be updated soon so that all this will happen automatically.