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Canadian Dollar Reaches Parity with US$

boxlight writes in to mark the occasion when the Canadian dollar hit parity with the US dollar for the first time in 31 years. The article notes that Canada has run a budget surplus in each of the last 10 years. "This is actually bad for the profits of Canadian corporations that sell their products to the US for US dollars (Canada sells far more to the US that the US sells to Canada); but it means us Canucks will get cheaper Macs as the Canadian prices get closer to US prices with every new release."

109 of 702 comments (clear)

  1. Article is useless without a graph! by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone got a graph handy that shows how the two dollars reached parity?

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

      A lot of people don't have graphs and Iraq such as and.

    2. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by jamie · · Score: 4, Informative
    3. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by mrslacker · · Score: 2, Informative
    4. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ask and ye shall Receive. Here's the link to the graph and data on Yahoo Finance. As of my posting, it appears that the US dollar has bounced back a bit, and is worth 1.0095 Canadian dollars.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

      Imagine a graph with two lines. Now imagine those two lines converging until they meet.

    6. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by kebes · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Here's a graph.However it doesn't show parity because different markets trade at slightly different values, as explained in this news item:

      "Currency trading is an over-the-counter market," a Bank of Canada spokesperson told CBCNews.ca. "It's not like the TSX." So there can be small discrepancies depending on the trades the data source monitors.
      However that article mentions that "The loonie briefly reached $1.0003 US on foreign exchange markets shortly before 11 a.m. ET, the Bank of Canada said." and TFA says "The Canadian dollar reached $1.0002, before retreating to trade at 99.93 U.S. cents at 11:01 a.m. in New York." So that narrows down the approximate moment when parity was reached.

      At present it's just below parity (0.9986), but the expectation is for the Canadian dollar to exceed the US dollar in the near future.
    7. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by jessiej · · Score: 2, Informative

      or, just as accurate with a different twist http://finance.google.com/finance?q=USDCAD

    8. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In order to see anything useful, you should also plot the Euro and the Yen. While the CAD has increased slightly in buying power in recent years, the bigger news is that the USD has plummeted, likely due to bad fiscal policy (war debt).

    9. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This graph might be a little more useful, as it goes back 30+ years:

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/economy/loonie.html

    10. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by s.bots · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There was a short blurb in the paper the other day about how you could buy an Audi S4 in Great Falls for around $48,000 USD, and here in Calgary the same car will set you back $72,000 CAD. There were a couple other examples (Nissan Murano $35,000 USD vs. $50,000 CAD, BMW something $58,000 USD vs. $68,000 CAD)

    11. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by donutello · · Score: 2, Informative

      The USD is plummeting because of the trade deficit, not the budget deficit.

      --
      Mmmm.. Donuts
    12. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by xs650 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "In order to see anything useful, you should also plot the Euro and the Yen. While the CAD has increased slightly in buying power in recent years, the bigger news is that the USD has plummeted, likely due to bad fiscal policy (war debt)."

      Yes indeed. My first thought was that the title should have read "US dollar reaches parity with Canadian dollar."

    13. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by dajak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or http://finance.google.com/finance?q=CADEUR to compare against the euro: it is exactly where it was last year at the end of the summer. This shows us two things: 1) it is the US that is sinking, and 2) Canada is valued highest in the summer, which makes complete sense to me.

    14. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by trolltalk.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Although like most US policy of the last 6 years, instead of fixing the issue they plan to take over others. Soon Canada, the U.S. and Mexico will share the "Amero" as currency within the North American Union."

      Dream on. Canada hasn't had a federal budget deficit in more than a decade, and social security is fully funded on an actuarial for the next 75 years (that's right - 75 years, its not a typo). Contrast that to the US deficit, and the unfunded mess that is known as social security, with off-the-book intra-government "lending" totalling 75 trillion.

      You can have our loonies when you pry them from our cold dead hands! Actually, not even then! There's more of a chance of switching to the Euro as the greenback slowly does its imitation of SCO stock.

    15. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by Solandri · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We can lump a bunch of currencies in like so and the fact that it is the USD that is moving is more clear. The general trend is clear, and with the Fed dropping interest rates right now that's going to put considerable downward pressure on the USD, so expect to see things get worse over the next month or so.
      Bear in mind that the reason the Fed dropped interest rates so low in the first place from 2002-2005 was to shake the Yuan off the dollar (China used to have it sell at a fixed value relative to the dollar, instead of traded on the open market). A significant portion of the dollar's drop during that time period was due to this. The two were decoupled (in a fashion) in 2005. In theory the dollar should've recovered some afterwards, but Katrina, things going badly in Iraq, and now the credit crunch (which traces its roots to the Yuan being tied to the dollar) have all kept it heading down.
    16. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 2, Informative

      It takes months - even years - for price changes to move through the system. The goods that retailers are selling you now may have been bought by them a year ago. Many Canadian manufacturers have long-term contracts - priced in loonies - for basic feedstock.

      Food and electronic goods from the U.S. should, of course, reduce in price quicker, but it can still take many months.

    17. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by cooley · · Score: 4, Funny

      From the US? Most of you can't even find Canada on a map ... just ask Miss Carolina. Please, please tell me you didn't just reference a non-existent American state whilst making a crack about how bad Americans are at geography.

      "Carolina" isn't an American state any more than "Columbia" is a Canadian province.
      --
      Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
    18. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by GargamelSpaceman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know you are right. The last time this happened was in 1976 - right at the end of a U.S. spending spree called the Vietnam war.

      The U.S. borrows to pay for a war, and our currency goes to SH*T.

      And now we have tons of middle eastern enemies, just like then, plus we're cresting hubbert's peak. I wonder if we'll have another 1980's stagflation real soon, or if the Feds will be able to keep the ship running smoothly..

      We're also going to be selling the T bills we bought to store the Social Security Surplus in in order to pay for retiring Baby Boomers.

      What's next? Who knows..

      --
      ...
    19. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Funny
      You can have our loonies when you pry them from our cold dead hands!

      Oh yeah? Yeah? Well you guys don't even have a decent health care sys... OK, well, but you guys don't have a democr... Well, you don't have real bee... Damn. Just never effin' mind, OK.

      --
      That is all.
    20. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by 2short · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Printing money" (by which I assume you mean expanding the money supply) does not cover the budget deficit, as the government does not get the money. It is widely understood to encourage inflation, though it is not itself inflation as your "i.e." would imply. We borrow money to cover the budget deficit, not print it.

      The trade deficit is a big problem, with complex, hard to summarize causes.

      The budget deficit (and resulting national debt) is a big problem, with straight a forward, easily summarized cause: the election of idiots, particularly the last 3 Republican ones.

    21. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by mstahl · · Score: 2, Informative

      Were you thinking of non-parallel skewed lines? These would be lines which are not parallel because the perpendicular distance between them is variant over their length, but which are not coplanar, and I believe must be members of parallel planes, so necessarily do not intersect.

      Two lines can't really be colinear without being the same line. Not in euclidean geometry anyway (and actually, now that I think of it, not in more exotic geometrical systems either).

      If two lines describe the same set of points, though, and you're calling them two separate lines, they would necessarily also be parallel even as they intersect one another throughout their entire length. Consider a definition of "parallel" meaning the perpendicular distance between the two lines is constant throughout their length.

      I really hope I don't get modded (-1, Pedantic) for this one....

    22. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by DavidShor · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Iraq war spending is rather low when compared to the Vietnam War, at least in comparison to the size of the economy. We still have a large deficit without the Iraq war anyway; our deficit is mostly due to Medicare and Medicaid.

      As for your stagflation fears, there has never been much evidence that small deficits (as a percentage of GDP) have a large effect on inflation (though I admit, these kind of things are very hard to test empirically). Moreover, unemployment has been persistently low for the last decade; I do not see how that will change in the near term without a rather severe supply shock. Of course, I am assuming that we have a rational Fed, something the last couple of days has shaken my faith in.

      The real reason Canada's currency has achieved parity is the same reason as 1976; Canada produces a massive amount of commodities. In 76 Canada rode a speculative run on copper, and oil prices were still very high. Today, oil is at an all-time high, and commodities have surged.

      Wake me up when we achieve parity with the Yen.

    23. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 2, Funny

      We'll trade you Quebec for Alaska and Washington state.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    24. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by jamstar7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hang onto it for a year & it'll be worth an American nickel.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    25. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by DavidShor · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "Bear in mind that the reason the Fed dropped interest rates so low in the first place from 2002-2005 was to shake the Yuan off the dollar (China used to have it sell at a fixed value relative to the dollar, instead of traded on the open market). A significant portion of the dollar's drop during that time period was due to this. The two were decoupled (in a fashion) in 2005. In theory the dollar should've recovered some afterwards, but Katrina, things going badly in Iraq, and now the credit crunch (which traces its roots to the Yuan being tied to the dollar) have all kept it heading down."

      And here I thought that they dropped rates so low in order to decrease unemployment and shake off a recession. Silly me.

    26. Re:Article is useless without a graph! by trolltalk.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Maybe I'm being more cynical, but I firmly believe that if the US government has to choose between letting the union splinter and dropping a nuke into New York, then pop goes the apple.

      Of course, if that's what it takes to "keep the union together", then its already a failure by any reasonable measure. The way we dealt with secession in Canada was two-pronged

      On the legal side:

      1. recognize that it is a right
      2. make it clear that it would have to be done in a legal and fair manner

      On the political/social side:

      1. get the groups most pressuring for secession deeply involved in the political process, so they can't stand outside the door and throw rocks
      2. devolve more power to all the provinces
      We're stronger because we were able to face the boogey-man of secession, and adapt (Canada is good at coming up with compromises) rather than try to use force. Its like a marriage - using force to keep someone with you who doesn't want to stay is a bad idea, whereas recognizing that they have the right to leave might just encourage them to stay, since its a show of fairness and equal treatment between partners.
  2. what to do with "Canadian dollar jokes"? by peter303 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Answer: Change them to "American dollar jokes"

    1. Re:what to do with "Canadian dollar jokes"? by fm6 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Offtopic: had a friend once who thought that there were penguins in Canada. When I disabused her of that notion, she said, "there go all my Canadian thanksgiving jokes."

    2. Re:what to do with "Canadian dollar jokes"? by king-manic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Happy belated 375th birthday then.

      And in response to the GP, we'll be thankfull that we've used up our oil and they no longer need to invade once the resource wars really flare up.


      The middle east has a 40 year deadline. Canada has a reserve estimated to last 350+ years at current usage increase patterns.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    3. Re:what to do with "Canadian dollar jokes"? by thegnu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Btw, when I speak Spanish I use estadounidense to describe a US citizens and americano to describe a resident of the Americas. But when I speak English I use American. I have yet to have any problem with anybody not understanding what I am speaking.

      You could say "US Americans" like Miss Teen North Carolina.

      I always thought it was funny living in a proud country like Mexico (Estados Unidos Mexicanos) calling Americans estadounidenses, when it's in THEIR title, too. I much prefer gringo or gabacho, especially since I am so clearly one myself. When I worked with my friends, if an American came in, I'd always (jokingly) say to the person waiting on him, "Chingalo, guey. No hay pedo, es gringo." People always thought that one was great. :-)
      --
      Please stop stalking me, bro.
  3. USA Today? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 3, Funny

    So I guess the original article wasn't in USA Today if there wasn't a graph.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:USA Today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      This sort of behavior isn't really unexpected. See here for some cogent analysis on the Canadian problem. I suspect they are undercutting honest American enterprises by manufacturing kilts and other socialist goods ;-)

  4. Yeah but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Our economy is strong, and always growing. At least that's what the preznut keeps telling me.

    Three jobs! Uniquely American, isn't it.

    1. Re:Yeah but.... by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Our economy is strong, and always growing. At least that's what the preznut keeps telling me.

      Actually, it is the economists that keep saying it. They get their data from economic indicators such as the stock market, GDP, inflation rate, consumer confidence, unemployment etc. The President just repeats it.

      Of course, since it does not jive with your politically colored glasses, I don't expect you to understand.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  5. Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by MLopat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "This is actually bad for the profits of Canadian corporations that sell their products to the US for US dollars (Canada sells far more to the US that the US sells to Canada); but it means us Canucks will get cheaper Macs as the Canadian prices get closer to US prices with every new release."

    Somehow that seems like little comfort for us Canadians that realize the impact this has overall on our economy. Anyone that isn't into business or economics up here gets excited about the CDN dollar being stronger because it translates into better cross border shopping for a very small minority, cheaper vacations, and some discounted consumer items like Macs. But take a look at how this impacts the country as a whole and we don't have much to celebrate as an exporting nation.
    1. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by pokerdad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      we don't have much to celebrate as an exporting nation.

      Our economy is stronger than it has been in my entire life. At .70 US, .80 US and .90 US there were people predicting the imminent collapse of the economy, but as a whole it has just gotten stronger.

      And while we may export resources, we largely import manufactured goods, so for some one looking to buy just about anything, this is good news.

      Its also worth noting that while the loonie has gotten a little stronger, this is largely a story of the US dollar weakening and the Canadian dollar not following (as it has often done in the past). This means that the price of Canadian goods have not increased globally, leaving plenty of opportunity to sell to other markets.

    2. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by king-manic · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Somehow that seems like little comfort for us Canadians that realize the impact this has overall on our economy. Anyone that isn't into business or economics up here gets excited about the CDN dollar being stronger because it translates into better cross border shopping for a very small minority, cheaper vacations, and some discounted consumer items like Macs. But take a look at how this impacts the country as a whole and we don't have much to celebrate as an exporting nation.


      Dont' over estimate the crunch on our export industry. A significant amount is via oil which is a commodity that does not reduce in demand linearly with price. Manufacturing etc... has been on a steady decline for the last 8 years as well as the dollar rose. That has hurt the eastern Ontario economy. At the same time sky high oil prices and an increase in demand world wide has lead to a super heated economy in the west. The west gains from this as our commodity is in demand and we are at capacity to provide. so a Price increase helps the western provinces while it hurts the eastern provinces. Our trade with the US is immense but it hasn't ever been about selling them large quantities of manufactured goods. There is also a time lag related to the effects as contracts signed when the dollar was weaker will remain for a while. So it'll be a while before we see how parity helps or hinder us. As a westerner I don't mind a big crunch in the eastern economic power block.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    3. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyone that isn't into business or economics up here gets excited about the CDN dollar being stronger because it translates into better cross border shopping for a very small minority...


      Small minority?

      In 2001, most of Canada's population of 30 million lived within 200 kilometres of the United States. In fact, the inhabitants of our three biggest cities -- Toronto, Montréal and Vancouver -- can drive to the border in less than two hours.
      link
    4. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not at all. To our economist's surprise, the Canadian export economy is coping with the rapidly rising dollar very well. One theory is that the dollar has been rising for such a long time that all the weaker companies have already been weeded out. Canadian organizations are using the high dollar as an opportunity to purchase equipment from the states to make themselves more competitive.

      In fact, Canadian economists were also VERY worried about the impact of the American housing market collapse on our economy. This turned out again to be a false alarm. Lumber exports have fallen, but aside from that, the economy just keeps trucking along to everyone's surprise.

      You're right. The high dollar shouldn't be good for Canada. But for some reason, it isn't hurting much.

    5. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by Kristoph · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually the value of the CAD has as much to do with the fact that Canada is an exporting nation as anything else. The CAD hit bottom against the USD in 2002 and has been climbing ever since almost in lock step with the rise in value of the commodities it exports. The continued fall of the USD will likelly push commodities higher and so companies exporting commodities will not feel a great impact. That, in turn, should prompt more foreign investment in comodity producers which (directly and through a knock on effect) will increase the number of Canadian jobs.

      To be sure, the impact on the Canadian economy from the downturn in the US housing and car markets is going to cost jobs but that has less to do with the dollar then it does with the weakness in those markets in the US.

      ]{

    6. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All true, but two things need to be remembered.
      First of all, our primary exports are raw materials, not finished goods. As a resource exporter, countries can't afford _not_ to buy our products. They can't in-source the mining of bauxite, for instance, if they don't have the stuff.
      Secondly, this is a measure of the US dollar sinking. Canada has grown modestly against other currencies: ~22% against the pound, ~15% vs. the Euro, and a rather large ~46% against the Yen, in just under five years. Those aren't dangerous numbers, they're a sign of a country growing in the international marketplace. The weakness here, of course, is that our biggest trading partner (by far!) is still the US, and if they go under, it's going to be rough on us.

      I wish this had happened a bit slower so that Canada could disconnect their economy from the US a bit more, but the writing on the wall has been there for ages-ever since the invasion of Iraq, and really probably since Bush first got pushed into power by PNAC.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    7. Re:Screwed economy but cheaper Macs?! by debrain · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not at all. To our economist's surprise, the Canadian export economy is... Damn that Canadian economist.
  6. Benefits to a cheaper dollar by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People assume that the dollar falling in value in relation to foreign currency is a bad thing. This is not necessarily the case. Here are some benefits:
    * American products become cheaper to foreign markets. This helps with the trade imbalances we currently have.
    * Foreign products become more expensive to American consumers, also helping with trade deficits.
    * It discourages foreign workers from sneaking into the US. Getting $4.00 an hour is suddenly not so much compared to what they get paid in their home country.

    I could go on, but you get the idea.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    1. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by pnewhook · · Score: 2, Informative

      It discourages foreign workers from sneaking into the US. Getting $4.00 an hour is suddenly not so much compared to what they get paid in their home country.

      Yes. $4 per hour in Canada would be illegal. The lowest allowable minimum wage in Canada is $7, and it is typically around $8 depending on what provincve you live in.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    2. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by benzapp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is we have no native industry for the vast majority of things Americans desire. We also are a net importer of food and energy.

      Someday, countries like Canada with lots of wheat will want something besides debt instruments in exchange for their goods. So too will countries like Saudi Arabia want something of tangible value in exchange for their oil.

      Rapidly rising prices of foreign goods may someday bring back American industry, but that is a generation away. We have too few engineers and no manufacturing infrastructure. We will have to train a whole new class of workers and build many new factories. This doesn't happen overnight.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    3. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by Nexx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless the relative buying power of 1USD = 1MXN, that statement's meaningless without comparisons to previous exchange rates.

    4. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by Seumas · · Score: 2, Informative

      Huh? How are these good?

      * American products become cheaper to foreign markets. This helps with the trade imbalances we currently have.

      American products are cheaper. American employees paid less or offshored.

      * Foreign products become more expensive to American consumers, also helping with trade deficits.

      Most products sold to American consumers are foriegn products. American employees being paid less because of the first point above also have more difficulty affording most products they buy, because of the second point.

      * It discourages foreign workers from sneaking into the US. Getting $4.00 an hour is suddenly not so much compared to what they get paid in their home country.

      Doesn't matter, because we don't need them to come to America. We can just oursource and offshore to them in their own country.

    5. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We have too few engineers and no manufacturing infrastructure. We will have to train a whole new class of workers and build many new factories. This doesn't happen overnight.

      I think you vastly underestimate the existing base. Part of the reason that there are fewer people in manufacturing in the US is because US manufacturing increased in productivity. People that spent a lifetime as high school grads doing rote tasks were obsoleted by robots. Manual machinists were replaced by fewer people that operate faster and more accurate CNC machines, and those CNC machines get more productive every year.

      While China's manufacturing output is huge, $3T+/yr, US manufacturing is still a $1.5 trillion dollar/yr industry.

      Consumer Electronics is the one big non-native industry, but they can be made in the US. It's moved out primarily due to cost issues, competitors can make them cheaper, but I doubt that will really come back in significant numbers.

    6. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by Harlockjds · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Most products sold to American consumers are foriegn products. American employees being paid less because of the first point above also have more difficulty affording most products they buy, because of the second point.

      the only reason that most products are forign products is because they are priced lower. If they become pricier because of weakening dollars (or other currency's becoming stronger) then American products will bounce back.

      It's not like we no longer know how to manufacture in this country... it's just that it's cheaper to import.

    7. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by Znork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, true, there are many advantages to currency fluctuations. For the US in this case I think it's a bit more painful than usual tho.

      The declining dollar will drive a sharp inflationary pressure, which severely limits the Feds ability to moderate the economy. The Fed might want to lower interest rates, but every lowering will result in a rapid inflationary hike, leaving it with the choice of either letting property prices collapse with associated pain of bank runs and failures, or by letting the dollar continue in free fall which means letting everyone holding US assets pay for the irresponsible behaviour of some.

      And of course, if the Fed shows it's going to let the dollar tank, that'll just cause everyone to dump even more dollar assets, driving the dollar down further.

      Long term there will be a correction, and there will be advantages such as a resolution to the trade imbalances. But the fundamental problem is that large parts of the next decades consumption has already been done, paid for by borrowed money secured with overinflated real-estate prices. Adjusting to paying interest rather than shopping luxuries will suck badly.

      On the bright side, perhaps the economists will bang their little heads together hard enough this time to come up with numbers for GDP growth and asset values that are actually based in reality.

    8. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by joshv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let me guess, you're a Republican, right? So to you, higher prices for imports is a Good Thing, because of the trade imbalance. But if you're a blue collar family struggling to live on an income that's stagnant at best, higher prices are just higher prices.

      Sure, until enterprising individuals build plants in the US to make the goods we were previously importing, but at a lower price. And those plants start hiring US workers.

      Yes, I agree, that would be a catastrophe - let's just continue buying all our stuff from other countries and let our workers keep losing their jobs. Outsource everything - eventually the world will just pay us American's to sit around and watch ads for their products.

    9. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by dcavens · · Score: 2, Informative

      Someday, countries like Canada with lots of wheat will want something besides debt instruments in exchange for their goods. So too will countries like Saudi Arabia want something of tangible value in exchange for their oil.

      Actually, Canada exports more oil and gas products to the U.S. than Saudi Arabia. We're your number one source for oil imports, which is one reason our dollar is so strong.

    10. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by jjohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I used to work for a plastics manufacturer in the U.S. Both us and our competitors manufactured most of it in the U.S.--Rubbermaid, Iris, Sterilite... The rising cost of labour and production was offset by the cost of importing low density/low cost equivalents from China, and by automation in American factories. Also, the reliability and availability of sufficient-quality raw materials in the U.S. was far greater than in China. Overall, it was a bit of wash between manufacturing plastics here and there, with the advantage to local manufacturers in the U.S. because of tooling production for just-in-time manufacturing and low inventory costs.

      Unless the foreign manufactured product is a high cost/high density item like a laptop, where the air freight cost is a minimal portion of it, shipping the product is literally shipping it, taking 4-6 weeks to cross the Pacific, which incurs significant costs in order fulfillment and inventory management.

      The hysteria about the flight of manufacturing from the U.S. isn't entirely wrong, but it's far too simplistic. Lots of basic good manufacturing still goes on here, and the devalued USD definitely favours that.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    11. Re:Benefits to a cheaper dollar by photomonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      * American products become cheaper to foreign markets. This helps with the trade imbalances we currently have.

      What is it that we produce again, beyond credit products and consulting. I'm talking in the range of consumer or industrial products.

      * Foreign products become more expensive to American consumers, also helping with trade deficits.

      ...But at the same time further weakens the American economy. We cannot, under the present economy, 'make' stuff as cheap as other countries (China, Slovenia, Turkey, etc.) can. Computers are 'cheap' in the US now because Chinese workers assemble the PCBs for literally dollars a day, where we can more adequately measure skilled labor costs in dollars per hour.

      So by the time we retool our now closed factories to start making stuff again, and buying the raw materials to do so with a weaker currency, we're at a pretty huge economic disadvantage. And before the skilled laborers required to run machines for $3-$4/hour instead of the $15-$30/hour they presently see, the economy is going to have to get even worse. Otherwise, something has to give.

      * It discourages foreign workers from sneaking into the US. Getting $4.00 an hour is suddenly not so much compared to what they get paid in their home country.

      So long as it's better in any way to be in the US, they will continue to come. And frankly, we need them. It is true that the 'just-crossed-the-border' immigrant will work a lot harder and a lot dirtier for the money than the average American suburbanite will. And they have no recourse not to work because going on welfare is not an option. Right now, you can make more on welfare (if you have children) than at basically any entry-level or unskilled labor job.

      I'm not suggesting that we should marginalize or enslave immigrants, or treat them as indentured servants, but it is their 'deregulated' nature that allows them to operate as they do, and fulfill a niche in the economy. In the And we as a society have come to rely on them to do so. Throughout the history of ALL 'successful' (US, British, Roman, Egyptian, Greek, Japanese, Chinese, etc.) civilizations, those same successes have always relied on an economic substrate or underclass to support the inordinate affluence of the upper class. I'm not saying I'm against it. Just stating fact.

      As we begin to regulate immigrants, we 'up' the street value for those that jump through the hoops to become legal.

      So as the economy in the US weakens, we gradually start calling for the regulation and naturalization of hitherto 'illegal' immigrants. We do so in the name of preventing terrorism and not 'stealing jobs' from Americans. It has yet to get to the point where illegal immigrants compete with a significant number of Americans for jobs. However, as the economy weakens, eventually Americans will be competing with illegals for the same jobs. At that point, we've, as usual, already trained our replacements. At that point, the economy is basically fscked anyway.

      As Americans, we carry so much debt that it won't take much for the economy to tumble, and fall hard.

      It is my hope that some of those who made vast fortunes in the time after WWII, the Carnegies and Goulds of the modern era in the form of Gates and Frick have the hindsight and the progeny (genetic or otherwise) who can capitalize on this weakened economy, and put the US back on track.

      Sadly, I think that we will continue to Visa ourselves to death on an individual level while the government throws away money on unwinnable wars and aimless other projects.

      Now is a time for strong leadership, and cautious economic policy. But with no real industrial infrastructure remaining, I don't see any good coming from a weakening US economy.

      --
      Message contains 1 attachment: spam.gif
  7. The glass is half full or half empty? by Dzimas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another way of looking at this is that the US dollar is in freefall against the Euro and other major currencies. The shift between the US and Canadian dollars reflects this new reality. That said, I suspect Forex traders are caught up in the euphoria of parity. The Canadian dollar might well dip significantly below $1 American again as the rush of breathless media attention dries up and currency traders take their profits and run. This certainly isn't good news for Canadian manufacturers - I run a little electronics company that sells 90% of our goods in the USA. We have raised some prices by as much as 30% over the past five years, just to maintain margins. However, our customers don't necessarily see it that way - they think we're getting greedy. To keep things from getting out of hand, we've moved some production to China and started to source North American components in the USA, rather than dealing with Canadian distributors. That's not good news for our economy.

    1. Re:The glass is half full or half empty? by king-manic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another way of looking at this is that the US dollar is in freefall against the Euro and other major currencies. The shift between the US and Canadian dollars reflects this new reality. That said, I suspect Forex traders are caught up in the euphoria of parity. The Canadian dollar might well dip significantly below $1 American again as the rush of breathless media attention dries up and currency traders take their profits and run. This certainly isn't good news for Canadian manufacturers - I run a little electronics company that sells 90% of our goods in the USA. We have raised some prices by as much as 30% over the past five years, just to maintain margins. However, our customers don't necessarily see it that way - they think we're getting greedy. To keep things from getting out of hand, we've moved some production to China and started to source North American components in the USA, rather than dealing with Canadian distributors. That's not good news for our economy.

      Primary resources have been our #1 industry (Oil, Wood, uranium etc..). The increase in dollar values hurt manufacturing most as many of the primary resources we export are constantly in high demand and will not diminish in a linear relationship to price. It's a toss up at how the increased dollar will effect us. It may not be negative uniformly. It is detrimental to the manufacturing industry but that industry has always been secondary and heavily concentrated in Ontario. It might diminish prosperity in Ontario but it will increase prosperity in the west.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  8. Re:About time by rockabilly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interestingly enough, I listened to an industry expert on the radio who stated that the high Canadian dollar was not the result of the stronger Canadian economy, but rather a weakening American economy. I guess those who are bailing from the greenback are viewing Canada in a different light...

  9. Book Prices? by senor_burt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can the book publishers start to change their book prices, then? It made sense before when they priced them out relative to currency, but at this point, to spend $32 CDN versus $21 USD for the same book, well, as far as I'm concerned, Canadian book vendors are going to go out of business as I start to buy more from Amazon.com rather than Amazon.ca - and Amazon.com frequently offers free shipping.

    1. Re:Book Prices? by jjohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're in a tough position: They bought that stock with non-par currency, and are now eating the cost of the rising CAD to keep customers happy. As a small business, they don't have a lot of cash reserves to wait out the inventory turns until they're purchasing at par as well.

      If you want to support them, thank them for the offer, and then pay the full CAD price, at least for the next couple months.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    2. Re:Book Prices? by senor_burt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > this has nothing to do with production costs, and everything to do with the change in the relative value of the currencies
      That was my point exactly. The only way I would accept the deviation in pricing is if they were produced by Canadian printers at a higher cost due to lower production runs.

      Well to be fair the pricing reflects a CDN $ at $0.65 - which it hasn't been in a long time. I've spot-checked my books, which span from the 1980's to now (the ones I checked - I've got plenty predating 1980) - you're right, that currency does seem to play a bit of a role in pricing, but it is updated VERY slowly - pre 1997 books, I can understand. But post-1997, with the option to buy online at currency value, well,

      Here's an example:
      K&R's C Programming Language in Amazon.com is $40 (rounded)
      http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-2nd/dp/0131103628/ref=pd_bbs_2/105-0648757-4344429?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190309328&sr=8-2

      The same book from Amazon.ca is $60 (rounded)
      http://www.amazon.ca/Programming-Language-Brian-W-Kernighan/dp/0131103628/ref=sr_1_1/701-4896514-8538726?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190309304&sr=8-1

      Both are shipped free.

      Why, as a consumer, would I spend $20 more for the same book? In today's world, it makes no sense for books which have currency-based price deviations to have static prices, or prices updated so slowly.

      I'm sorry that the small store suffers - $20 more in my pocket means that I've got disposable income to spend - or invest - elsewhere. It's the publishing houses which pocket the difference - I can't imagine how the book stores take a larger margin. The Canadian book and comic stores need to petition the publishing houses to have a more sensible and more dynamic pricing strategy. I don't mind if their prices are out of date if it's a small deviation, but raising prices by 30% which doesn't reflect the currency state for quite some time.

      I don't know how the publishing houses would reflect currency rates for books already in stock - as a consumer, I hate to say that this is just not my problem. I would buy Canadian if the price was equitable, but only a fool would spend 30% more as a matter of national pride, when a more sensible corporate policy could address this. They've been pocketing the currency difference for years - sorry, but with the internet, they've got to change their business model if they want to keep their Canadian stores open.

      For comics, which are produced monthly (more or less), they can update the pricing accordingly - who knows what they can do for subscriptions, but that's their problem.

    3. Re:Book Prices? by HungWeiLo · · Score: 3, Informative

      The storekeepers in Bellingham say that the expected surge of Canadian dollars has been subdued thus far, due to the fact that Canadians loathe the long lines at the border. 2 hrs or more of waiting during peak times plus over-inquisitive border patrol agents tend to drive away business.

      --
      There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
  10. the way things are going... by FudRucker · · Score: 2, Funny

    it wont be long until the US Dollar reaches parity with the Mexican peso...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  11. This has been going on near the border for years by Enlarged+to+Show+Tex · · Score: 2, Informative

    Various establishments (hotels, restaurants, etc) have been taking CAD at par for many years, although most of them stopped doing so once 1 CAD dropped below 0.75 USD (and there have been times in the past 10-12 years where it was as long as 0.59 USD/CAD. The only difference now is that soon those establishments that take CAD at par will start making money from the forex conversion instead of losing it... Also, here in Minnesota, Canadian coins have always been easy to spend as if they were US coins...

  12. Re:About time by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I still want to know why all the books in the book store, and magazines, have the US price at 2/3 of the Canadian price, when the exchange rate hasn't been that bad in years.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  13. Freefall.... by downix · · Score: 5, Informative

    I find it funny how it is always put "the Euro rsing against the dollar" or "the Canadian dollar rises against the US dollar" when the truth is the US dollar is in freefall, loosing value hand over fist. I wonder how long before the Peso overtakes us?

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:Freefall.... by Rufty · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
  14. Re:Oh dear, by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 2, Funny

    .. all the Slashdotters who were moving to Canada to escape their totalitarian state will be whining about how dear everything is up there now. You did all move to Canada right?

    Apparently, it was just the ones that can do math.

    --
    "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  15. Not bad for Canadian Business by saterdaies · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It isn't necessarily bad for Canadian corporations. When something like this happens, it changes things. Canadian companies now get less money for final goods and services provided to Americans because of the exchange rate. BUT, Canadian companies can get intermediate things for cheaper. So, let's say that Bombardier (a Canadian train/plane manufacturer) buys components (like Aluminum) from the US. They get that cheaper. Then they sell that plane to the US which they earn less money for. That comes out as a wash. It really just shifts income from those who export to those who import. But in the long run, it doesn't even change that. As the demand for American goods in Canada rises, the price level of American goods will rise and along with it the currency. Things in economics tend toward equilibrium in the long run.

  16. Re:What's the obsession with 1 to 1? by JackHoffman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These things are called psychological barriers. Likewise with the $1.40 per Euro mark that was reached at about the same time. If these barriers fall, people take extra notice of the trend, not because there's much of a difference to the day before, but because humans pay more attention to round numbers. On your 20th birthday, you're just one day older than the day before, but you don't celebrate the day before or after your 20th birthday. It's kinda stupid, but that's the way it is.

  17. Re:Meanwhile by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Meanwhile, while I sit in Europe trying to irk my way through grad school living off of dollars I saved while I was in the army(and a part-time job doing IT stuff for a small business), I watch their value and my immediate standard of living drop.

    I'm sorry that has happened to you. Unfortunately, anytime the value of something changes, someone wins and someone loses. I know hindsight is 20/20, but how far did you expect to get living in Europe with US dollars in the bank? Why would you not change those over to Euros when you decided to live there?

    As for the idea that discouraging foreign workers is a good thing, might I ask in what universe you live in? Do you actually want to pay 25 bucks for a meal in a cheapish restaurant? That is what will happen if the immigrant labor leaves.

    I have no problem with immigrant labor. What I have a problem with is illegal immigrant labor. Sure, it helps me get a cheaper burger at Chili's, but when I have to pay $50 for an aspirin at a hospital, I figure I'm not saving all that much. Besides, slavery allowed for cheap food and clothing as well, but that doesn't make it right. When an illegal is working at a plantation.. I mean farm, they are more or less owned by that farm. Only instead of being shackled by chains, they are shackled with the thread of deportation or imprisonment. I expect foreign workers in the US to get a fair wage. When that worker is here illegally, enforcing minimum wage or any other labor laws is impossible.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  18. CDN book prices are a rip-off by diodeus · · Score: 5, Informative

    I grilled my local independent bookseller on this. She blamed the publishers, which are all in the U.S.

    Complain about it here: http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/

  19. Re:About time by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's absolutely the case. The American dollar is falling in comparison to a number of currencies, in particular the Euro.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  20. Cost in Dollars to Alberta's Royalty income by mpetch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As an Albertan in the middle of Canada's oil country one statistic with regards to the Loonie is how much of our provincial Gov't loses in royalties for a given rise in the Canadian dollar. It is estimated that for every One Cent increase, there is a 100 million decrease in royalties/revenue at the provincial level. Now Alberta faces the Oil Industry to claw back some of that money - a potentially dramatic change in royalty structures - that has CEO's of major oil companies fuming mad that we intend to cut into their bottom line. http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/19/royalty-reaxn.html

  21. cheaper Macs by denisbergeron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not at all !

    Goods are allways at higher price in Canada.

    Look at cars, even if no border tax exist for foreing company to import car in Canada (or in the USA) all car have better price and better warrenty in the USA than in Canada. Go to jeep.ca or toyota.ca and try to build a car and then compare it with jeep.com ou toyota.com for a 30k car in the USA you will buy 36K in Canada (plus taxes).
    Samething for everything from Apple, you got 10% to 30% of foreing charge when you buy in Canada.

    And don't try to buy it at Amazon.com, they don't send thing like that in Canada, you must buy at Amazon.ca.

    Try this Ipod Nano at future shop 219$ (or BestBuy.ca)

    Same Ipod nano at BestBuy.com at 149$

    Even if the Can$ is higger thant the US$ price a cheapper in USA, That's before taxes, and the overall business etablishment price is lower in Canada.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
    1. Re:cheaper Macs by Emetophobe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try this Ipod Nano at future shop 219$ (or BestBuy.ca)

      Same Ipod nano at BestBuy.com at 149$


      I'm surprised no one else noticed this mistake, but you're comparing an 8GB ipod nano on those Canadian websites to a 4GB ipod nano on the American website.

      Here's a correct comparison:

      Bestbuy.ca 4GB ipod nano: $169.99 Canadian
      Bestbuy.com 4GB ipod nano: $149.99 American
  22. Re:There goes the "How much is that in Canadian" j by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

    Vending machines have always excepted them ;)

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  23. Whose deficit is it, anyway? by fm6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anybody else think it's ironic that at a time when people are resisting government run health care because of the expense, the Canadians are running a budget surplus — despite have government run health care?

    1. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by man_ls · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Their military budget is a joke when compared to ours. That's why they're able to run a surplus -- it's not being spent on defense.

      Whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of opinion, but their lack of a military being the reason they can be more socialized is a matter of fact.

    2. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by pcgc1xn · · Score: 3, Funny

      The US is spending money on defense? Oh yeah, forward defense.

    3. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by ShieldWolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends what you mean by a 'joke'. :P

      The US spends more on its military than the rest of the world COMBINED. As a matter of percentage of GDP the Canadian government spends less than other NATO members on average, but we spend more than Israel does in dollar terms (bet you wouldn't have guessed that one).

      Truth is Canada spends less on our military because WE DON'T HAVE TO. With the cold war over there is no immediate threat to our country. Unlike the US we don't try to project our national policies externally for the most part so we don't need 12 nuclear powered aircraft carriers etc.

      Having said that to address your main point this is not the reason why we have a budget surplus. Canada used to have a small military AND a budget deficit because we had lots of wasted spending on social programs and not enough revenue. We increased some taxes and ALSO cut spending and now everything is golden (similar to the state of affairs in the US in the late 90s). That you guys blew the opportunity to be in a smiliar situation by massively cutting taxes and increasing discretionary spending is your own fault, don't blame it on military expenditures.

      --
      just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
    4. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by fm6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, you do have a good point. On the other hand, do we really need as big a military as we have? Right now, we could fight a conventional big-battlefield war with the rest of the planet, and probably win.

      Except there aren't going to be any more CBBWs. Just nasty little quagmires like Iraq. And maybe the odd terrorist attack or nuclear exchange. Having a huge military is not all that useful for that.

    5. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can use more direct numbers than that. Most (or all?) of the Western world pays less for universal government health care than the US does for it's private system and get better quality care to boot.

    6. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The US spends the highest percentage in the world of it's GDP on healthcare. I don't think military expenses or not has anything to do with it.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    7. Re:Whose deficit is it, anyway? by Zebedeu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Canada benefits from the US umbrella. That's not entirely true. Canada also benefits from being geographically positioned in a island-continent, with neighbouring countries that do not represent a threat, as do the US.
      It also benefits from a large number of years of good foreign policy that insures that, unlike the US, there are not many people who would like to see Canada burn just as a matter of principle.

      While I am sure that every ally of the US benefits from the high values of defence expenditure, I believe that if that were not the case, at least Canada wouldn't have to increase it's own expenditure, if any.
  24. Re:U.S. Economic Decline by mc6809e · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Currencies are adjusting to the prospect of a U.S. economic decline because of its non-competitiveness from the LACK of health care costs externalization through universal health care.

    So, there's economic decline when companies spend their money on employees' health care, but not when the government takes that money and spends it on employees' health care.

    Interesting.

  25. Wait until China unloads dollars! by nate+nice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Our beloved, once great country (the USA) is in serious financial trouble. China has been acquiring dollars for awhile now with the trade surplus they've had with the USA for some time. Usually this isn't a problem as the trading country reinvests these dollars into the USA's markets and businesses. This is good for the USA as you can imagine. In theory it should also raise the value of the trading countries currency because their GNP should be higher. But imagine the trading country keeps its currency artificially low so it can export things cheaper and cheaper and acquire more money (dollars) faster to build more and more factories, etc. It does this by sending the dollars back to the USA in the form of treasury bonds.

    Now imagine the USA expected a surplus and made a huge tax cut because of it. And then the surplus never happened so a huge debt was created. Someone has to pay this debt off. Imagine if the people paying this debt off are the ones you are running a trade deficit with. Hence, our trading partner buys treasury bonds at an alarming rate.

    This works great for the USA short term because we get cheap goods from China (because their currency is still of low value because they invest their profits right away) and save a little bit on taxes. Well, a lot if you're rich.

    But as you're probably starting to realize, this can't go on forever. Eventually it's going to collapse. At some point the debts will have to be paid and this will be done by raising taxes and INTEREST RATES. So now not only is the dollar worth less because everyone has a ton of them around the world, but it costs a ton to borrow them so no one wants them.

    All of a sudden the value of your house is half of what it was, the value of your paycheck is half, etc. A domino effect is created because no one can afford to borrow money any longer. American business doesn't take risks, people can't take risks, and money is tight. We haven't experienced this in a long time. Money has been cheap. It's been the USA's biggest seller. The dollar was valuable and it was available. That's prosperity. Imagine the dollar being expensive and worthless. That's a depression.

    So expect the Canadian dollar to become more and more valuable against the USA dollar for awhile.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
    1. Re:Wait until China unloads dollars! by stinerman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Using your line of reasoning, if tax cuts pay for themselves we should simply abolish all taxes. The government would be awash in revenue!

      if it wasn't for the government's fiscal irresponsibility
      You can thank our "limited government" Republican friends who held both houses of Congress and the Presidency from 2002 - 2006.
  26. fiat money sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The value of currency is bullshit anyway as long as the currency is by fiat.
    The fact that our money is all "elastic" makes it purest BS.
    What's really sinking the U.S. dollar is strong inflation. You DO realize that's why they changed the inflation index to not include food anymore, right? They don't want to paint a real picture of what inflation is like because they don't want to cause a panic. If you include housing and food you get a double digit inflation rate over the last umpteen years.

    What's worse? Now that the U.S. subprime crisis is in full-swing, the FDIC/Fed Reserve are propping up lenders by giving them money. (Remember the news about this a few weeks ago about opening up billions of dollars?) Where does that money come from? Nowhere! It's made from an elastic currency, which is the same as saying it is really coming indirectly from the people in the form of inflation as the money supply is diluted.

    Now if only we had a gold standard again.... If banks weren't given government guarantees with fiat money all the time, they wouldn't have incentive to make shady loans in the first place for fear of going out of business if too many default. i.e. we wouldn't have a subprime mess in the first place. And even if we did, the cost of Countrywide going out of business isn't nearly as big as inflation across the entire populace.

    And then there's that whole national debt thing...

    1. Re:fiat money sucks by servognome · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now if only we had a gold standard again....
      The US would have been bankrupt decades ago, and there would have never been near the same level of economic growth. The gold standard doesn't prevent economic mismanagement.
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  27. Re:About time by ashitaka · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually the Chapters here in Vancouver has had a sign up for a while that stated the true Canadian price would be given at the till. Maybe they've even started putting price stickers on the books.

    --
    If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
  28. 1864 the greenback traded at less than 36 cents by JamJam · · Score: 3, Informative

    What goes up usually comes down. Here's a little history: The Canadian dollar has seen some steep ebbs and flows in its history. In 1864, the greenback traded at less than 36 cents (Canadian), an all-time low for the U.S. currency. In 2002, by contrast, the loonie traded as low as 62 cents Quoted from http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070920.wdollar0920/BNStory/robNews/home

  29. Re:American dollar still goes much futher by g8oz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >>Socialism is great till you run out of other peoples money.

    So are budget deficits. Wait until the Chinese get sick of funding yours.

  30. Re:American dollar still goes much futher by ttapper04 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was astounded to find that you are right. Federal tax in Canada caps out at 29% http://www.taxtips.ca/fedtax.htm Where the United States caps out at 35%http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=164272,00.html. One could probubly make an argument that the US federal rates are lower for low income, but there is no doubt that they are higher overall.

    Sales tax may be a diffrent story however. The rates in Canada range from 6% in one province, to 13%-16.6% in all the others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_Sales_Tax I have never seen a US sales tax rate over 7% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States

    In any event I thank you for pointing out the Federal rate difference.

  31. I'm am not at all surprised by cdn-programmer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am not at all surprised to see parity. Canada has a strong economy and Alberta especially so.

    There are many reasons for weakeness in the US currency including but not limited to a massive government debt and a glutonous appetite for foreign oil.

    Yesterday T. Boone Pickens was on TV on the business channel I sometimes watch. He made a number of interesting comments:

    1) World oil production is about 85 million barrels per day and T. Boone does Not think it can be increased. The best information I have comes from expertize within the Geological Survey of Canada, but this expertise is certainly not limited to the GSC, and we are now pegging the peak of work oil production at September 2006. If production increases above that level then it will not be by much. T. Boone commented that the estimated demand for 4th quarter 2007 is 88 million Barrels per day.

    Hence we will see the oil price driven up in order to destroy demand. In all likelihood it will get worse.

    2) T. Boone says he favours nuclear and pointed out that General Electric says they can build a reactor in 3 years plus the friction added by the regulators and dealing with opposition. Probably this is correct.

    3) Canada is ramping up Tar Sands as fast as we possibly can which explains why our economy is so strong. We cannot increase production has enough to make much of a difference. Currently we are investing billions per year.

    Currently the USA consumes about 23 million barrels of oil per day.

    Any way you want to slice it - this is not good news. It is clear the US dollar will continue to weaken is decades of political scrapping and decades of economic mismanagement finally face their day of reconning. As has been said many times, in order to avoid the melt down of our economies due to lack of energy availablity and high cost, we have to build at break neck speed an infrastructure that can replace oil and gas. We needed to start about 15 years before the peak of world oil production. We have not done so.

    If the peak really was last year, then all hell is about to unfold and it will not surpise me to see gas rationing in the not too distant future.

    Some things to remember.

    Ethanol will not solve the problem. 100% of the US corn production will provide less than 2 weeks of liquid fuel. Next, ethanol from any source lives by the equation that 1 tonne of dry plant mass yields the equivalent of about 2 barrels of oil and this if we can do the conversion for free. This includes cellulostic ethanol.

    We don't have the plants build anyways.

    Industry runs under much tighter constraints than consumers. A consumer will simply give up a dinner at a restaurant in order to save the money to pay for his next tank of gas. Industry shuts down the plant and lays everyone off. We have already lost most of the North American fertilizer industry and plastic feedstock production (IE the pellets that go into injection moulding machines) is also going to die. Electricity production from Natural Gas is not threatened yet but expect power costs to continue to climb as this sector pushes out weaker sectors. In all cases jobs are lost and expensive infrastructure goes idle.

    If one looks at the mortgage crisis and factors in the job loses precipitated by energy issues, then it becomes clear that this picture is not yet well understood.

    Next consider how a government deals with recession? They print currency. Faced with the choice of inflation or recession, which do you choose? People on fixed incomes will lose their retirement.

    Of course - one way to look at this is that its the retiring generation that lived beyond their means and created the mess. Their children certainly didn't. So maybe its poetic justice. However I do not think that people realize how bad its going to be. I watched my father-in-law lose his retirement because of the inflation Pierre Elliot (Idjot) Trudeau and his henchman Jean (Cretin) Chretien during the 1970's.

    In part this

  32. Re:Lopsided == Bad by n+dot+l · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wouldn't actually want to nuke anyone. That was more or less absurdity. Understood. But if China really did do something hostile over the trade imbalance it could escalate into war so it bears some discussion.

    Russia wouldn't be able to afford the fuel necessary Huh? Have you read anything at all about the Russia starting up all of its old Soviet-era air force exercises? Heres's one example and you can Google for more (BBC had a good story on this a couple of months ago, this is just the first one Google news brought up). Not exactly the sort of thing a country with no fuel reserves would be doing...

    more or less irrelevant in today's global economy Russia's now one of the world's biggest energy producers/exporters. Europe buys a lot of energy from them these days. And much of what Russia doesn't produce, it controls, since many of the pipelines to Europe run through the former soviet block.

    Plenty of Russians live in such poverty and in ruins, it looks like they were just recently bombed. Please don't mistake a lack of civilian comfort for national poverty. They're still running an economy that's very similar to what they had in the Soviet days. Back then in many cities the power would go out at 11PM. It wasn't that the plant shut down, it's just that the electricity was all diverted to munitions plants because they were an economic priority. Today resources are being diverted into the exploitation of strategic resources (like energy).

    Oh, and keeping the Soviet-style economy in mind, Russia wouldn't have to "buy" anything to sustain a war effort. They'd simply order their people to build it - and that would work because the Russian mentality is nothing like ours is here. For one thing ultra-patriotic nationalism is normal and encouraged in Russia, rather than a silly notion as it is here. For another, not much time has passed since the bad old days when you did as you were told or you simply vanished in the night. People remember that too, and they have no illusions about their leaders not resorting to that kind of pressure in a time of war.
  33. Obiligatory Simpsons quote... by QRDeNameland · · Score: 4, Funny

    In response to both your post and your sig, this really is obligatory:


    Singer: The trading gap shuffle, we're in a heap of trouble, doing the trading gap shuffle!
    Bart: He already sang this song!
    Marge: No, that was about the budget gap. This is the trading gap.

    --
    Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  34. Re:American dollar still goes much futher by nate+nice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The idea, or theory, and it's just that and nothing more, is that as the dollar slides because it becomes more and more common, countries holding a lot of them are going to dump them. And then more countries will dump them, creating a chain reaction. So the people on the bottom holding the dollars end up being the losers. Who are these people? American's of course. We hold them every day. We work for them, our houses are paid for in them and we owe them to people.

    This is tied to us too. We don't save money in this country. The average person doesn't have a savings any longer. They have a debt. And as individual's debt climbs more and more, the value of the dollar becomes less and less.

    There's a lot of forces at work making the dollar worth less and less. From our lack of savings and increase in personal debt to foreign countries paying off our debt via t-notes. And then of course countries we deal with artificially keeping their currency low.

    You do realize that if China did push their currency up, our goods would go up in price too. That would make the dollar more valuable of course, but not short term. So Bush isn't pushing for it because his Wal-Mart voter base doesn't want to pay more for cheap imports.

    So with all these forces at work lowering the value of the dollar, the theory is big spenders like China are going to eventually say "screw the dollar, lets sell them now while they're worth something" setting off a chain reaction of dollars. The dollar becomes very much so worthless at this point.

    So then interest rates go up because no one can pay their debts. High interest rates are bad of course.

    This is one situation but it's increasingly more likely as we continue down this path.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  35. Cars still have HUGE price disparity by necro2607 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You think that's bad? It's the exact same thing with cars, too. When you're looking at buying a $49k car (Subaru WRX STI) and you see it's only $33k in USA, well, that's just pure bullshit. I have yet to read ANY reasonable explanation for this extreme disparity.

    I've been looking at buying a car for months (hoping the price would drop on 2008 models but no they are exactly the same) and I WAS going to just buy it in USA and import it to Canada and save myself $5000+, but Honda has just emailed all their US dealership managers stating that if a buyer does this, the warranty is VOID for the vehicle in both US and Canada - your car won't be serviced under warranty even if you drive back down to the US to get it serviced. Obviously they are trying to protect their fucked up excessively-disparate market. Frankly, I don't even want to buy a car at all, now - I'll be paying 30% more than people a mere 20 minute drive from me will be paying for the SAME FUCKING VEHICLE.

    On a more fortunate note, Toyota has stated rather loudly that they WILL honor the warranty of a vehicle purchased in the US and imported into Canada. So, obviously I am considering them at this time. Of course that still doesn't make me feel any better about the fucked up price disparity.

    1. Re:Cars still have HUGE price disparity by Dorceon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's worse is when you consider how many cars are now made in Canada. You're paying a premium for them to _not_ ship it across the border.

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
    2. Re:Cars still have HUGE price disparity by necro2607 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, like the manufacturing plant that Toyota opened in Ontario fairly recently.

      I wonder if Ontario residents get screwed as badly as us over in BC. I'm guesing the MSRP on cars is country-wide, here. Pretty damned amazing. Can you imagine paying 30% more for a vehicle built 15 minutes from your own home, compared to what people in a seperate country pay? Jeez..

  36. Re:American dollar still goes much futher by nate+nice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's a pyramid scheme. They sell them to someone willing to assume a risk on them. They sell them below market value. Others in turn do the same. Eventually enough people will have gotten out and not want anything to do with the USA dollar. It's like a bad stock.

    Eventually someone at the bottom gets stuck with them. That person is you and I.

    What you're saying is they're stuck with them. I disagree. They can find buyers (lets face it, it's a USA dollar. It will always be worth something) who will pay below market values for them. Others will do the same, creating a domino effect of devaluation of the dollar in circulation.

    What goods are they buying? Do you know what China is doing with all the dollars they have? Stashing them away by buying USA t-bonds. They're not investing in American companies, they're funding the war on terror. Essentially paying us off to build factories and infrastructure on the cheap.

    They're going to get sick of holding worthless dollars and start selling their goods to emerging countries that can give them something of value back.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  37. Re:American dollar still goes much futher by servognome · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What you're saying is they're stuck with them. I disagree. They can find buyers (lets face it, it's a USA dollar. It will always be worth something) who will pay below market values for them. Others will do the same, creating a domino effect of devaluation of the dollar in circulation.
    The problem with that is that China would be shooting itself in the foot, as they then destroy the economy of the main trading partner.

    What goods are they buying? Do you know what China is doing with all the dollars they have? Stashing them away by buying USA t-bonds. They're not investing in American companies, they're funding the war on terror.
    At the same time they are not investing in their own economy, so that if the US economy falters it will take China with it.
    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  38. Not net EROI -ve Re:I'm am not at all surprised by cdn-programmer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It was David Pimental from Cornel and others who first proposed this myth. Its simply not true. In fact the energy return is quite decent.

    The thing is that an individual farmer could do quite well running his farm machinery on ethanol that he produces himself. In fact, the average farmer has lots of free time all winter long and could produce all of his required summer fuel and still have lots of time for curling, hunting, fishing and bitching about why there is no money in farming... when in fact there is.

    How do I know? I grew up on a farm and brewing and making wine is something I have done since I was in grade 11.

    I do know what the input costs are and I can assure you Pimental did not. He made many assumptions that are not supported by facts. Nevertheless one of the things they were doing back then was running coal fired distillation and pushing it past the Aseotrop. To be energy +ve you need high efficiency vacuum distillation.

    My point is that its not practical to do this from starch sources which is basically beer making. I think from cellulose it might make sense. The cellulose costs are going to be low, but we are still talking about 1 tonne of dry plant matter is equivalent to 2 barrels of oil once we do the conversion. With oil under $200 per barrel I do not think the economics look good. Next we do not have the technology in place yet.

    The best ideas seem to involve enzymes derived from Trichoderma reeshi. This is a fungus isolated in Gaum during the 1940's. It is used for Stone Washer blue jeans since it does digest cellulose and it loves it in fact. The thing is most of the plant matter we have as feedstocks are not pure cellulose. They also contain pentosans and liganins and T. reeshi doesn't like these. There are other fungii which do like them. I work with some of these but not in the area of fuel production.

    My point is that we are facing a bad bad problem and we do not at this time have in place technology which will do for us what we need. I for instance will not invest in an ethanol plant other than as a trade into the hype - and I have made quite a lot of money doing this.

  39. You can't eat service industry. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That "service industry" is just economic masturbation. I sell services to you, you sell services to somebody else, they sell services to a third guy, around and around ... until somebody decides that they'd like to eat today, or buy a DVD player, or whatever, and buys something that's imported. Suddenly that money is gone from the economy.

    Relying on a bunch of corporate headquarters isn't how you maintain a civilization. Sure, they'll be the last thing to go, but when they do, there won't be a damn thing left. We'll have lots of service industry left, but no real exportable-wealth creation.

    Service industry can act almost like manufacturing, when it 'produces' and 'exports' intellectual property, but as much as US politicians have fastened onto the idea of the 'information economy,' it's not a panacea. I don't see the US exporting enough music, movies, and microcode to make up for the amount of Canadian pressboard furniture, Chinese electronics, and Saudi oil that we consume.

    Right now, we make up for this by issuing debt: we import (and in many cases, irreversibly consume) things that have real, intrinsic value, in return for scraps of paper (or, more likely, ephemeral digits in an account somewhere) that are only worth something because they're backed up by the US economy. When people decide that the US economy ain't what it used to be, suddenly those scraps of paper aren't worth much, and not only can we not buy any more, but the people who we've bought stuff from already are going to come calling for whatever we have of value left.

    I've been asking for years how exactly the current US path is sustainable, and I've never gotten anything particularly reassuring. The current crop of politicians and financiers is selling the entire country up the river for enough gains today to them to retire on. But at some point in the future, the rest of us are going to be stuck holding the bag.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  40. Re:Lopsided == Bad by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Russia wouldn't be able to afford the fuel necessary to send a rocket over the ocean. Russia is more or less irrelevant in today's global economy.

    Russia is the number 3 (or so) oil exporter in the world. As oil reserves go down and the price rises, Russia will have no problem getting what it needs or wants. A very different scenario will play out in the US.

    --
    That is all.
  41. Re:Lopsided == Bad by nate+nice · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, oil has approached a level in cost where drilling the Gulf of Mexico is now profitable. Chevron holds a lot of drilling rights to this area.

    This reserve is thought to be the largest oil reserve in the world. It's the USA's wild card. These reserves have been known about for years but it wasn't profitable to drill them. Now they're finding there is more there than they ever thought.

    Expect to be able to walk to Cuba on the tops of derricks in a few years.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  42. Re:Yet another way to look at it by Solandri · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My point is the USD has not "suddenly" dropped. The USD rose over the past few decades relative to Canadian dollar, and is now dropping towards levels seen in the 1970s (admittedly right after the Arab oil embargo).

    http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory

    At 5 year intervals, Jan 1, beginning 1976. US$1 =

    British Pounds
    1976 = 0.4943
    1981 = 0.4186
    1986 = 0.6923
    1991 = 0.5165
    1996 = 0.6445
    2001 = 0.6696
    2006 = 0.5781
    curr = 0.4980

    Canadian dollars
    1976 = 1.0168
    1981 = 1.1945
    1986 = 1.3985
    1991 = 1.1604
    1996 = 1.3645
    2001 = 1.4988
    2006 = 1.1641
    curr = 1.0134

    Japanese Yen
    1976 = 305
    1981 = 203
    1986 = 200
    1991 = 135
    1996 = 103
    2001 = 114
    2006 = 117
    curr = 116

    German Mark / Euro (1 Euro = 1.95583 Marks)
    1976 = 1.3398 Euro equiv (2.6205 German Marks)
    1981 = 1.0021 Euro equiv (1.9600 German Marks)
    1986 = 1.2510 Euro equiv (2.4468 German Marks)
    1991 = 0.7627 Euro equiv (1.4917 German Marks, post-reunification)
    1996 = 0.7348 Euro equiv (1.4371 German Marks)
    2001 = 1.0620 Euros (2.0771 German Marks)
    2006 = 0.8446 Euros
    curr = 0.7100 Euros

    So if you look at just the last 6 years, yes it looks like the US dollar is crashing. But compare over 30 years and you see that the British Pound and Canadian dollar first dropped against the US dollar, and are now returning to levels seen in 1976.

    The Yen rose during the 1980s when Japan became an economic powerhouse, and has held pretty steady during the dollar's recent drop. In other words, the Yen is dropping right along with the dollar relative to the Euro, Pound, and CAD.

    The German Mark and Euro have been up and down in 30 years, but the current rate is really not that far off from historical rates against the Mark.

    Claiming that the US dollar is dropping into obscurity like some have been saying is like looking at a sports team's last 6 games and seeing that they're 0-6 and claiming they're dying; all the while ignoring that in the previous 24 games they were 15-9. Yes there are serious problems, but it's probably better characterized as "coming back down to earth" rather than crashing.

  43. Re:Article is useless without PRODUCTIVITY by aqk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >>You shouldn't have to pay duty on computer hardware anyway. That's part of the FTA which became NAFTA.

    (LOL) Oh. Really.
    The last time I brought a "USA" product thru Canadian Customs, they looked at the Seagate hard drive and said "Hmmm 'MADE IN CHINA' "
    I had to cough up a lot of duty AND GST.
    So much for this NAFTA bullshit.
    HELLLOOOO! Haven't you heard? The USA does not MAKE anything anymore!
    They just move stuff around and re-sell it.

    How long you think this crappy biz model will last?
    And Canada is not that much further behind.
    I give us about seven years, maybe less...