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Ubuntu On Dell After Four Months

mrcgran sends us to LXer for an interview with John Hull, a manager of the Linux Engineering team at Dell, where he reports on how the Ubuntu machines have been working out for them so far. "Embracing Ubuntu Linux on our desktops and laptops seems to have really raised Dell's visibility within the Linux community. We have been supporting, testing, developing for, and selling Linux for 8+ years here at Dell, but before the Ubuntu announcement, a lot of people didn't know that we did any of that... Previous to our Ubuntu product announcement... we would have a conversations with vendors about pushing Linux support for their hardware, but without a Linux product offering from Dell for that hardware, it was very difficult to convince them to release Linux drivers. That has certainly changed now... The original sales estimates for Ubuntu computers was around 1% of the total sales, or about 20,000 systems annually. The program so far is meeting expectations. Customers are certainly showing their interest and buying systems preloaded with Ubuntu, but it certainly won't overtake Microsoft Windows anytime soon."

29 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. Dude! by longhairedgnome · · Score: 3, Funny

    Your getting linux!

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  2. Within the retail sector... by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...Dell have raised the awareness of Linux to the point where potentials are actually asking if Windows or Linux is installed. Eighteen months ago, that wouldn't have happened. Eighteen months ago people asked if a machine had XP, 2003, ME, 2K, or whatever version of Windows, but hardly ever Linux. I'm a Linux user myself, by preference (and politic, and budget), and advocate it wherever I can. I'm not saying it's for everybody, it might not be, but if you want a toaster, get a toaster. If you want a toaster that deep fries your sunday roast with all the trimmings, give Linux a go. :)

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    1. Re:Within the retail sector... by Luterek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's great that they are offering Ubuntu, but it is only available on one desktop system not the entire line-up and you need to go to a specific section of their website. I wish I could click customize and when the OS section comes up choose Ubuntu.

    2. Re:Within the retail sector... by iamdjsamba · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know i'll probably get slaughtered for this, but I agree with this statement completely.

      I'm completely pro open source, and started off with Ubuntu as my first linux distro about a year ago, as everyone was raving on about it. Really impressed with the package manager, but I was completely lost when it came to installing stuff that wasn't in there.

      I'm on Mandriva now, which is a massively improved user experience, where most of my stuff worked perfectly out the box (except my wireless, which took a bit of work, but I got there eventually). However, I'm now in a position where I want to install subversion and tomcat, and it's really not easy. Windows wins in this situation, because of the ease of automated installers. Which is a great shame, and I know I'll get lambasted because I haven't done enough research or put the effort into to learning the basics of installing on linux properly, but for it to ever be accepted in the mainstream by your average Joe, things like that need to "just work".

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    3. Re:Within the retail sector... by LingNoi · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you're on Ubuntu there are places such as http://www.getdeb.net/ where you can get popular programs that aren't in the repositories yet.

    4. Re:Within the retail sector... by zergl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However, I'm now in a position where I want to install subversion and tomcat, and it's really not easy. Windows wins in this situation, because of the ease of automated installers. Which is a great shame, and I know I'll get lambasted because I haven't done enough research or put the effort into to learning the basics of installing on linux properly, but for it to ever be accepted in the mainstream by your average Joe, things like that need to "just work".

      Tomcat and SVN probably isn't part of what average Joe will use.

      While it's true that "professional" or "power user" software isn't that easy to setup (messing around in the configs with an editor, etc.), I don't think it would bother the ordinary desktop user very much, because he'll probably never need it.

      OTOH, installing everyday software like OOo, Gimp, Firefox, small little games etc. is extremely easy on linux in comparison to windows. Browse repository, install and forget. With the added bonus that the software you get is very probably free of malware of any kind (if you use $DISTRO default repository) and same goes for updates to that software.

    5. Re:Within the retail sector... by Jussi+K.+Kojootti · · Score: 4, Informative
      I'm not saying your complaints aren't valid, but the examples you use are fairly bad. I'm pretty sure both tomcat and subversion are available in the repos of all major distros. Example in ubuntu:

      aptitude install subversion tomcat5.5
      Do you have actual examples of "joe average" applications that are not available (things that could legally be available)?
    6. Re:Within the retail sector... by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With the added bonus that the software you get is very probably free of malware of any kind (if you use $DISTRO default repository) So if I am the maintainer of a Free application, how do I make it notable enough to be included in $DISTRO default repository so that users of $DISTRO can easily install it? Or is there another preferable deployment method for maintainers of lesser-known packages on common GNU/Linux distributions?
    7. Re:Within the retail sector... by zyxwvutsr · · Score: 4, Funny

      if you want a toaster, get a toaster
      I want a toaster with working WiFi drivers. Know where I can get one?
    8. Re:Within the retail sector... by LingNoi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not really. It's more to do with the fact that once a version of Ubuntu is released you only get security updates in the repository. So for example there is no Pidgin in Ubuntu Feisty because that was released after Ubuntu Feisty was.

      The reason they only provide security updates is because they don't want a situation where continuously updating stuff in the repositories breaks other programs. Instead Canonical will take a snapshot of all the new programs and work really hard testing that snapshot and sorting out all the bugs, release that out the door and start working on the next version.

      So if you want Pidgin or another must have updated program on Feisty then you go to getdeb.net

      Ubuntu Gutsy is being released on 18th this month (2 days) so that'll have a ton of updated programs, features, etc.

    9. Re:Within the retail sector... by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, simple;

      RPM. Most users can download an RPM, double click on it, and it'll get installed properly.

      I'm 99% sure that Ubuntu or Debian people can do similar things with DEBs. Of course, the downside with the package approach is you have to have one package per distro (take a look at Skype; skype isn't in any linux repositories, but it supplies 4-5 RPMs and a binary tarball).

      If you prefer something that is more like a Windows installer, use autopackage. Autopackages are distro neutral. Here's the quote from their website:
      # What is autopackage?
      For users: it makes software installation on Linux easier. If a project provides an autopackage, you know it can work on your distribution. You know it'll integrate nicely with your desktop and you know it'll be up to date, because it's provided by the software developers themselves. You don't have to choose which distro you run based on how many packages are available.
      For developers: it's software that lets you create binary packages for Linux that will install on any distribution, can automatically resolve dependencies and can be installed using multiple front ends, for instance from the command line or from a graphical interface. It lets you get your software to your users quicker, easier and more reliably. It immediately increases your user base by allowing people with no native package to run your software within seconds.


      As you can see from the screenshots, autopackage is pretty dead-easy for end users.

      There are also next-generation packaging utilities that are overtaking Windows MSI-type things, including openSuSE's one-click-install, and KDE's klik://, but neither of these has taken hold with enough Linux distros yet (you have to be using SuSE 10.3, or install a package on older SuSEs, and klik:// requires a kio-slave).

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    10. Re:Within the retail sector... by Trelane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They can't garauntee that Linux works with every hardware configuration, so they create some configurations that do work under Linux, and let you buy from those. Although I think it would be nice if their ordering system figured out that yes, you system was compatible with Linux, and let you choose it, or point out which items aren't compatible with Linux, and offer alternatives.
      Sounds plausible, except that they already do this. Some peripherals require Vista or some version of Vista, and you get a little warning if you choose them without having selected whatever is required.
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      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
    11. Re:Within the retail sector... by BKX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're making in incorrect assumption. It's EASIER to use a package manager. Most distros (and competent admins) seriously frown upon non-package-manager-installed software because of the problems this can introduce. Also, puTTY? Why? Just stick with the Linux/UNIX equivalents that puTTY was made to emulate. (That's right, puTTY was made for Windows users to get unix functionality, not vice versa.)

      Please, tell me one thing that putty can do that ssh, telnet, and xterm can't.

    12. Re:Within the retail sector... by DanielJosphXhan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When Apple bolts OS X to specific hardware, it's justified in the name of user experience. Apple stabilises the user experience by limiting the OS to a certain subset of hardware: theirs.

      Ubuntu, on the other hand, doesn't have that option. It does, however, have the option of pointing users in the direction of certain software by making it easy to install: repositories. Things that go into the repos are tested for compatibility, they install smoothly, and yet there are literally thousands of programs in the repos.

      If you want something outside the repos, you have to install it yourself. Which is not that easy unless someone has packaged the application properly.

      I like to look at this as a way of helping the Ubuntu user experience become as seamless and smooth as possible. Wide array of hardware, specific array of software.

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    13. Re:Within the retail sector... by websitebroke · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't think that this is really the fault of Ubuntu. It's the fault of the software makers themselves. (if fault is to be assigned) Any software maker has the option of making a .deb or .rpm, it's just that many, for various reasons, choose not to. The reason these pieces of software install so easily on Windows is that somebody made the installer. Software doesn't just install itself on windows from source code. It all comes back to the necessity of making these installers. If you want your software to run on Windows, and it has registry keys, etc, you absolutely have to build an installer. Not so in Linux. You can compile from source code, and while it's a pain in the ass, it is certainly doable.

      One of the possible reasons is that you have 95% of the market covered by Windows. As a commercial software maker, assuming that your software is Linux compatible in the first place, are you going to bother making a Ubuntu package? Another possibility is that you are a lone programmer making a small app, and don't have time to research package making.

      All of my experiences with 3rd party commercial software on Linux has been pretty good. Currently, I have Unreal Tournament 2004 on my machine, and it's installed perfectly on Ubuntu Dapper and Feisty - both 32 and 64 bit versions, Fedora Core, and Gentoo without a hitch - ever. Ditto for Bibble Pro. Quake and Return to Castle Wolfenstein have worked perfectly too, other than the fact that I had to copy a few files from the windows CD.

    14. Re:Within the retail sector... by mhall119 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With Ubuntu, if the package doesn't exist, it gets considerably more painful. Painful to the point that I don't think your average user would be willing to put up with it. I think the repository system is great, I just wish that there were decent installers for when it fails. .DEB is Ubuntu's equivalent of Microsoft's .MSI installer. Ubuntu will load .DEB files (and apt:// URLs) in GDebi, which informs you of any dependencies, resolves them if they are available in any of your repositories, and installed the package. Developers just need to create the .DEB package, they don't need to use a third-party installation wizard. The problem isn't that Ubuntu doesn't have an easy to use installer, its that not every developer bothers to make .DEB files.
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    15. Re:Within the retail sector... by hummassa · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're making in incorrect assumption. It's EASIER to use a package manager. Most distros (and competent admins) seriously frown upon non-package-manager-installed software because of the problems this can introduce. Also, puTTY? Why? Just stick with the Linux/UNIX equivalents that puTTY was made to emulate. (That's right, puTTY was made for Windows users to get unix functionality, not vice versa.)

      Please, tell me one thing that putty can do that ssh, telnet, and xterm can't. The point is moot, anyway, because putty, putty-tools (plink, pscp, psftp, puttygen) and pterm (putty terminal emulator) are in the Ubuntu repository, ie, if you like them better, you can still use them.
      --
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    16. Re:Within the retail sector... by SgtPepperKSU · · Score: 3, Informative

      cost in download is quite significant for me on my current ISP plan unfortunately Then just have Ubuntu Ship It to free of charge!
  3. Linux compatibility by reset_button · · Score: 4, Informative

    Our lab has been buying Dell servers for a few years now, because they certify the machines as being Linux compatible. Instead of checking the hardware specs against the list of available Linux drivers, I can buy knowing that things will just work. Kudos.

  4. Re:Technically... by thsths · · Score: 4, Funny

    > So, how many chairs will Ballmer throw?

    I think this calls for a three seater leather couch.

  5. It doesn't have to take over... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To be honest, I don't think it has to take over, nor do I think it will. Even Firefox didn't take over IE, but it did have some impact, and Microsoft changed its crappy CSS support to a _slightly_ better one. If Linux achieves ~20% or so it will be much harder for Microsoft to push its proprietary standards, and everyone benefits.

  6. Ubuntu Preloads by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a Ubuntu Preload Under warranty from Dell. It runs Feisty Fawn, I love it. I have one little problem. if you load up even a different Linux, you void your warranty, because they have a few proprietary drivers in the machines for some of the hardware, like the Win-modem. So. Here is an interesting question. How do you upgrade from Fiesty Fawn to Gutsy Gibbon without voiding your warranty?

  7. Not in the Netherlands by Twisted+Willie · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dell doesn't offer any sytems with Ubuntu preinstalled in the Netherlands. I was looking for a new laptop for my parents, and I managed to convince them to go Linux. So I went to the Dell website, but alas, no such luck. Still, knowing that their hardware will work with Ubuntu was enough for me to go Dell anyway.

  8. Re:Yeah, but where can I buy it? by atomic-penguin · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's under Desktop->Open-Source PCs or Laptop->Open-Source PCs on the Higher Ed. portal I'm looking at.

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  9. laptops as a loss leader for selling servers by nadaou · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Dell selling a few Linux-on-Laptops at the consumer end makes a lot of sense when you consider they want to grab a bigger chunk of the server market, where Linux holds a great portion of the market share. Get people used to the idea of Linux on Dell, then when they are in the market for a server they come back to what they know. The super reliable Linux experience makes Dell look good. Same angle as RedHat supporting FedoraCore.

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    ~.~
    I'm a peripheral visionary.
  10. Re:What about dual boot? by djfake · · Score: 5, Informative
    I bought a Vista box (since the license it probably cheaper and the warranty better server) from Dell: Was this easy or what? I just did a "shrink" to the massive C: in Vista, then booted off of Ubuntu CD and started the install, selecting "guided using freespace" when partitioning. After a reboot, grub had automatically configured Vista into the bootloader. I then edited /boot/grub/menu.lst to set it as the default.

    The other way around (adding Vista to a Linux Box) is slightly more complicated:

    http://my.opera.com/djfake/blog/dell-preloaded-with-ubuntu

    Or you could buy an Intel Mac and use boot camp, that's ea$y enough too! c

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  11. Re:Technically... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually I bough 3 Ubuntu Dells for my buseness...and, i formatted the hard drives and installed 3 xp licenses I had here. it was not ***so much cheaper*** than buying 3 xp dells directly, but I really didn't need 3 licenses more. So that's 3 chairs less, actually.

    Your point is perfect, though. How much running around and acreaming about those scurvey Pirates (Yaaaaarrrrr!) has Microsoft been doing lately, while tightening Windows Genuine disAdvantage. How many fleets of new machine orders with complementary Windows(tm) tax have resulted in redundant licenses that sit unused?

    Seems to me Linux on Dell has at least three big wins:

    • Less chance of site-license offices paying the Windows tax multiple times
    • Better hardware drivers for Linux, at least for components used by Dell
    • Better exposure for modern Linux (this is not your father's Slackware)
  12. A missed opportunity by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I, for the first time actually got a friend setup on Ubuntu a couple of weeks ago. Normally, being of the Microsoft persuasion, I'd recommend Windows if nothing else for its generally universal familiarity if nothing else (all the other PC's in the house were WinBoxes), but the machine she was given was free and not very good. The Windows installed on it was Win ME that wouldn't get even to the desktop unless in safe mode, so it had to go, but it was not capable of running XP to any degree of sanity (128 mb ram, celeron processor, etc), and indeed there was the licensing issue too.

    A perfect opportunity for Ubuntu I thought! Or not, as it turned out.

    I downloaded and burnt the latest CD image and installed it. Everything was installed fine, except the network card was not detected, rendering the machine even less useful than the butchered ME installation that was on it before. She only wanted to browse the net and read GMail basically, so without a network connection, the laptop was now as good as a large paper-weight.

    Now, this is by no means a flame against Ubuntu at all. Before it turned out Ubuntu was compatible, I was thinking to myself that if there's one area Ubuntu could really grow in is the "too old to run Windows x/y/z" which sets the hardware requirement bar higher & higher with each release.

    Despite what Microsoft say, Vista is not suited to all PC's - but arguably, Ubuntu is suited to run on almost anything assuming you don't mind common commercial apps/games aren't going to run for newbies (for obvious reasons).

    So, if I had one suggestion for Ubuntu/Linux is please, get it to run on shite hardware! Refurbished machines are overlooked if you ask me as many people really can't be bothered to buy new hardware, and Windows really isn't so suited for them in many cases.

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  13. Re:Technically... by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    So one purchase of a desktop with linux costs MS two sales? Interesting figure.


    The first is the Vista OEM sale, the second is the XP sale when users want to upgrade...