Driver Update Can Cause Vista Deactivation

KrispySausage writes "After weeks of grueling troubleshooting, I've finally had it confirmed by Microsoft Australia and USA — something as small as swapping the video card or updating a device driver can trigger a total Vista deactivation. Put simply, your copy of Windows will stop working with very little notice (three days) and your PC will go into "reduced functionality" mode, where you can't do anything but use the web browser for half an hour."

Comments

To all potentials looking to Vista as a solution..

[Tastecicles]

...to a question that was never asked: Don't say we didn't warn you.

Pirated version?

[MightyYar]

Is there a decent pirated version of Vista yet? I usually use the pirated version of software, even if I have paid for it. Everything works better that way... games don't need disks inserted, XP doesn't need activation or WGA, etc. The pirates have a better product.

Re:Pirated version?

[digitalunity]

I do this as well. My computers came with Windows XP and a bunch of OEM crap on them. I downloaded a cracked version of XP to avoid the OEM crapware, advertising, 'free' promo software and the bullshit of Windows itself forcing me to reactivate it after making hardware changes.

So, I paid for XP, and I got XP. I'm happy.

Re:Pirated version?

[MightyYar]

If you don't like their rules, don't play their game. Why?

Seriously, why let them set the rules?

Re:Pirated version?

[LordSnooty]

Because it's their product? You have choices.

Re:Pirated version?

[Corporate Troll]

Seriously, why let them set the rules?

Because the law is on their side?

Re:Pirated version?

[Corporate Troll]

Not condoning piracy, but sometimes you don't have much of an option. What is my coworker going to do with his HP machine that comes with a recovery partition, but now his disk is dead. No, there was no software way to burn the disks. It's a 2003 PC, the warranty from HP is long gone. He can't reinstall, yet he would have the right.

As for Dell: most people forget that the recovery CDs from Dell/HP/Fujitsu do not contain the crapware that is preinstalled. At least it never did for me. Out of the box = with crapware. Apply recovery disk = crapware gone.

That said, I did not reply for that, I wanted to comment the following:

Not once have I ever had to reactivate a legitimate copy of XP here at work despite having swapped out motherboards on a few occasions.

Of course not. Most bigger businesses have a Corporate Edition and a Corporate Edition does not need activation... ever... When pirating Windows XP, that's the version you want, together with a Corporate Edition Serial that is not known in the warez circles. Even installing WGA will not make a difference.

With Vista this "loophole" has been closed.

Re:Pirated version?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I paid for [a locked version of] XP, and I [stole an unlocked version of] XP. I'm happy.

I edited your last statement for accuracy.

If you don't like their rules, don't play their game.

Please look up the definition of theft. I'm sick of people who think that copyright infringement is actually stealing. While they are both illegal, they are two distinct concepts. And if you actually know the difference, shame on you for propagating the lie that copyright infringement equals theft. Especially in a post that presumes to correct the accuracy of another.

Re:Pirated version?

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Is there a decent pirated version of Vista yet? I usually use the pirated version of software, even if I have paid for it. Everything works better that way

Everything works better like that malware that may be hidden in that piece of pirated software. I just don't see how people can trust cracked software from anonymous sources. I bet these same people complain the most about how unstable an OS or any other piece of software may be.

I see nothing wrong with modifying a piece of software you bought using a script or patch that you understand well enough to know it doesn't introduce any malware. But to just pirate something off the internet is just playing russian roulette...

Re:Pirated version?

[Pofy]

>To most people I've talked to "Copyright infringement"
>IS a form of stealing, since they personalize the issue.

But people does NOT do the "everything that is copyright infringment and ONLY that that is copyright infringement is what should be call stealing (in addition to normal stealing). They tend to go out making all sorts of examples of how something is "stolen", taken away or whatever and thus claim it is OK to call it stealing. The problem is, the criteria for copyright infringment has nothing to do with anything being taken at all and thus one end up with all sort of things that would, to those people still be stealing, yet not being copyright infringment at all!!

You yourself do that and is a good example of why it is bad to call it stealing:

>(If I wrote a book and people infringed the copyright by making their
>own copy and selling it, they're efectively stealing money from me.)

Apart from not being sure how it is "effectively stealing money from you", no matter how you explain it, about you not geting money you "should" get or something, there will be many similar or exact same cases were, even if you can show someone did "steal money" from you, it is not copyright infringment.

An example, based on the copyright law of my own country that allows copying for private use, and is as similar to your example as possible. Instead of selling the copy I create, I sell the original. From your, as the writer, point of view it is exactly the same, no matter how you define your "effectively stealing money from me" it is a case that is NOT copyright infringment and not illegal in any other way either.

One can make up all sort of other such examples for whatever case you like to justufy the "stealing" with and for other countries to suit their copyright laws as well (I picked that of my own country since I am very familiar with it).

So yes, it DOES matter and if there is according to you, no real difference, why not use the actual correct terminology to start with instead of having to make up all sort of examples and analogies to try to explain why using the wrong terminology is OK? It tends to be far less confusing and avoid making people get the wrong ideas of how copyright work (in making people think it is similar to stealing when it is not at all).

I don't get it...

[oldosadmin]

What other industry is there that abuses their customers like this? I feel like I'm being accused of criminal activity from the first second I install a MS product now.

Re:I don't get it...

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I feel like I'm being accused of criminal activity from the first second I install a MS product now.

Likewise. This is why I refuse to install Vista on any new PC I'm putting together, or to accept the "upgrades" to things like Media Player that make them worse. I don't even have to jump to an alternative platform such as Linux or Mac, nor do I need to break the law and pirate something: I just buy XP instead. As long as people keep doing this, retailers will get the message and keep supplying it. When enough big retailers are losing out on profits because of Vista, they will make their feelings clear enough to Microsoft, and either the problem will go away or the Microsoft executives responsible will start going away.

Re:I don't get it...

[WibbleOnMars]

What other industry is there that abuses their customers like this?

Hmmmmm......

Music, film, automobile, fuel, aviation, big retail, banking..... I'd better stop before I get too depressed.

Let's be honest here -- you're pretty much getting taken for a ride every time you buy anything these days. Unless you spend all your money at the local privately-run organic farm store.

Re:I don't get it...

[budword]

Neither will happen. Microsoft has a monopoly. They are completely insulated from the consequences of their actions, know it, and act accordingly.

Re:I don't get it...

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Yes, you don't get it. As long as you are buying a MSFT product, they don't have to change their ways. All it takes is to send a critical update to render XP virtually useless. You are not free as long as you depend on MSFT.

Re:I don't get it...

[digibud]

It won't be long before XP will not be able to be activated. I don't know when that will be but at some point you and everyone else that chooses not to use a good copy (er...I mean pirated copy) of XP will have to go go Vista. It's inevitable and resistance is...well...you know.

Re:Wow

[djasbestos]

Hmm, I can get Vista and have less control over my own system, half (or more) of my software won't work with it, and it has all that annoying eye-candy crap from the Mac that I hate....sounds awesome!

XP ain't broke, so don't try to fix it, M$!!!

Re:Fool me once.....

[Mr. Underbridge]

When was the "fooled me once" time? I don't think it's twice yet.

XP activation issues?

Makes OS X and Linux look all the better

[TibbonZero]

If Vista had actually done all of the things it promised, and didn't do any bullshit like this then it might actually be a decent operating system. Microsoft's viability might have actually been there.

Main differences being vs Linux/Apple is that Apple is a hardware company and could care less if a small fraction of their user base pirates an operating system as long as they are buying hardware and are spreading the good word, and linux makers... want either support contracts or nothing.

And

[ktappe]

And in completely unrelated *cough* news, Apple said yesterday that 50% of Mac sales are to those who hadn't used Macs before.

No, seriously folks, at some point these stories about Vista have to lead to a stampede away from the product. Just watch for the signs....like the one above.

Re:Wow

[AVee]

Good reason to use open-source software. Or at least software from a company that doesn't treat it's customers as criminals by default.

But hey, it's your money, your PC, your loss.

Well they made their beds, so now ...

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

... they should sleep in it.

When MSFT was touting the The Total Cost of Ownership studies, did anyone ask, if the costs included reacting to unwanted updates? How many times people have spoken about vendor lock and the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket? Trashed everyone as MSFT hate-mongers. It will only get worse. If the revenue stream is threatened MSFT will slip in another forced update make it more and more difficult to switch to alternatives. Because, get this, MSFT can charge you all the way up to your switching costs. The only way it can increase revenue is by increasing your switching cost.

Put yourself in MSFT's shoes and imagine what you would do. A security issue crops up. One team comes back with a solution that does not break all the competitors products. The other team comes up with a solution that incidentally breaks competitors products. Which one will you pick as "critical security update"? MSFT is doing exactly what it should rationally do, given its market share. It is the customers who are irrationally picking MSFT solutions against their own best interests.

Classic "honey/vinegar" scenario

[eltonito]

I often wonder how and when Microsoft will lose their stranglehold on the PC market. Because, as Tyler would say, "on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero." No, I don't think anti-piracy strategies like this signal the end of Microsoft but they certainly aren't winning friends with it either.

It only takes a few key missteps and a to shift the market and open the door for a competitor.

Re:Fool me once.....

[IANAAC]

That's all very well if you have the choice - like it or not, some people *have* to use Vista. I pity them, but the poor b@$tards don't need any more difficulties like this!

If the user doesn't have a choice, it's usually because they're using it in a corporate environment, meaning that someone else is the person actually dealing with issues like these, not the user.

Re:Wow

[CastrTroy]

From what I've heard, Mac OS doesn't do this kind of stuff either. It's a little different, since it requires specific apple hardware to run the OS, but there's nothing stopping you from running out and getting a pirated copy of Leopard once it gets released, and running that on your older Mac. I understand how stopping pirates is a good thing, but it should never be done at the expense of your paying customers.

Re:To all potentials looking to Vista as a solutio

[Anonymous Coward]

What did you want to tell me? Your astroturfing check is in the mail.

- Bill

I've posted about this before

[kimvette]

I've posted about this issue before but was accused of making shit up just to slam Microsoft.

Wrong. I used to be a die-hard Microsoft fan, until they introduced the broken Activation scheme. Even back in the days of Windows XP. driver upgrades or reinstalls could de-activate Windows. This is why I am so adamantly against Activation schemes - at least schemes which do not allow for license transfers. It sucks, too. If delivering a bunch of workstations to a client where the client wants them pre-activated and added to their domain, you have to activate the system. Now, sometimes one will run into incompatibilities and have to upgrade a wireless driver or video driver (or add additional hardware - and yes, I've even seen USB device driver upgrades trigger deactivation) and if you've got the OEM version, guess what? You need to wait on hold with Microsoft to re-activate the system.

Granted, it doesn't happen often. It does have a knack of happening at exactly the wrong time.

Microsoft: you own the market. Drop the activation scheme. Also, where XP is nearing end of life, isn't it time to follow through with your promise to release a patch which will eliminate the need to activate Windows XP? I mean, Vista has been out for nearly a year now. . .

Re:Fool me once.....

[yancey]

It may be the corporate IT staff who are "dealing" with it, but the user still has to wait until their computer is fixed before they can get any work done.

Crippleware

[Enrique1218]

Microsoft has been doing this for years with XP. Now, it seems the company has taken it to the next level with Vista and make it more annoying. Activation is really just a nuisance, but one that illustrates the relationship MS has with its customer. Namely, everyone is a pirate and must be controlled and customers start to believe it themselves! At my school, I need to rebuild the XP Pro on a school computer but I don't have the media. I call the schools IT department and they told me that Microsoft has told them that too many computers have the same license and are hesitant to give me the media. However, the computer came with Windows XP Pro and has a sticker right on the side. Should it really matter under what license the OS is installed? When a company treats you like a criminal and constricts your productivity with draconian policies, its is time to look for an alternative. Let's hope you are lucky enough to not need Windows.

Re:Fool me once.....

[truthsearch]

like it or not, some people *have* to use Vista

Name one. No one *has* to use anything. When I got sick of developing software on Windows I shifted my career to develop on Linux. People told me I *had* to work with Windows to make money, and they were wrong. If it's about a job, then change jobs. Or if you have influence over corporate policy, then change corporate policy. If it's about games, well no one needs games, but there are other options.

Re:biggest mistake ms ever made

[plague3106]

Hmm.. do you tell your friends, family or clients that you're not using it because you can't steal it yet? Or do you leave that part out?

I imagine it wouldn't scare them at all if you told them the full truth. Nobody is going to NOT buy a car because you can't steal it..

I *AM* truly fscking confused

[zappepcs]

MSFT is working so hard to stop people from pirating their software ??? WTF. How did MSFT get to be so damned big and financially well off before they stopped the pirates?

It seems to me that the real reason for the problems with Vista are not because MSFT needs to protect their product with DRM, but that they need to protect the **AA's products. MSFT seemed to be doing very well for itself before implementing DRM. How is it that they now need that DRM to stay in business?

This is what worries me. MSFT seems to be looking out for the interests of the **AA, not just themselves. ( putting tinfoil hat on ) If they are looking out for the **AA, you can bet your last dollar that they are also looking out for the interests of Fascist governments. I'm not just trying to bash MSFT, but they are/were the richest and biggest software company in the world BEFORE they decided to install DRM, so what is the point of the DRM? Do you REALLY want to use a product that does that?

And people wonder why I stick with Win2k

[Anonymous Coward]

It's this horseshit of activation that's kept me off XP, and why I won't even consider Vista (along with bloat, DRM, etc.)

With Win2k, there's one serial number and it works (when I reinstall it.) I can change my entire motherboard, or even system and not have to worry about having to beg and try to convince MS for another number which I shouldn't. They're activation makes ME look like I'm guilty until proven innocent.

Just wait till ReactOS comes out and gives them some compitition. Then I'll be on Debian 4 and ReactOS (VM)

- Kc

Re:Fool me once.....

[Ed Avis]

You need to port applications from XP to Vista? Microsoft is normally very good about keeping backwards compatibility - indeed, the need to stay compatible with old badly-written apps is the cause of much of the cruft in Windows. Do you have any examples of software that works in XP and needs rewriting for Vista?

Re:Fool me once.....

[fuzz6y]

Name one. No one *has* to use anything. The definition of "have to" you are using is so narrow it is meaningless. You don't *have* to breathe oxygen. Unless you want to live.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Bill_the_Engineer]

like it or not, some people *have* to use Vista

Name one. No one *has* to use anything. When I got sick of developing software on Windows I shifted my career to develop on Linux.

First of all you are correct - Nobody on this planet has to use Vista (much to the disappointment of MS). Well maybe the players of Vista only games, but there is always the XBox (I agree with you here too.)

Where we *may* disagree is that I believe there are people who have to use XP. There are applications available on the XP that are not available on Linux (w/o screwing with Wine and even then it may not actually work).

I do admire your dedication to the Linux platform, but Linux is not the panacea of computing. FWIW, I use Linux at work and OS X at home... So I agree with you that you don't need Windows to make money as long as you are in a field that doesn't use a commercial application that is only on Windows (No not office, more like CAD, Thermal Modelers, etc. that some PI decided to require for a project.).

PS: PI = Primary Investigator.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Amouth]

many games.. (or you have to set them specific to run as admin - doesn't always work)

they also changed how printers work in vista.. as a result Adobe Acrobat and Distiller doesn't work unless you have 7.2 or later - kinda annoying for people that have acrobat 5/6 and have been happey with it for a while .. and no Adobe didn't release a fix allowing them to work in vista.. Adobe's fix is for you to buy the latest version .. the question i have is... what was wrong with the old printers model? and why not allow the use of older drivers in a wrapper if you want the new stuff..

alot of the stuff that causes problems in vista is just abuch of little dumb stuff that when compiled together makes you wnat to beat the crap out of it..

Re:I've already experienced this...

[BlackSnake112]

The problem is not activation, it is the number of time one has to activate the same installation of windows. Changing parts in the computer, should not be a problem. If I remember right microsoft has said a motherboard is a major change and they are allowing a limited number of major changes now. That is total crap. If I bought the retail version I should be able to install it on one machine as many times as I want to. It is not uncommon for people who change hardware in their computer (RAM, video cards, sound cards, network cards, replacing failed hard drive, using newer/faster/bigger hard drives) to reinstall the os from time to time.

This was not a problem in earlier microsoft operating systems, it should not be one now.

Re:Fool me once.....

[nine-times]

Well, some people who "have a choice" don't have much of a choice, because Microsoft has engaged in so many anti-competitive practices that it's still impractical for some users with specific needs to use anything else.

Yeah, yeah, I know, supposedly they can just install Linux and everything will work great, no problem. That's all well and good, except it isn't the truth. Some people can use Linux with no problem. Some people can install and use Linux, but it will bring some pain as they work around learning a new system and dealing with hardware support and missing applications. And then some people just can't use Linux because something about the work they're doing requires Windows-only applications.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Ark42]

If a program hard-coded "Documents and Settings" instead of using one of many available API calls or even looking at %USERPROFILE% then you deserve the crap you get having to re-write it.

Re:deactivated? so?

[sherpajohn]

Did you miss the part of the article where its clearly stated, he could not reactive it without calling MS support to get a new code? Happened to my wife with XP, what a freeking pain.

Something is Wrong...

[BoRegardless]

When I as a customer have to pay for the OS, and then have to put in my own time at $xy per hour to "fix" the OS, when routine actions occur, as described elsewhere.

Top management decisions at MS are loading up their legitimate customers with extra work, lost income and frustration. Frustration is what doomed T-Mobile's relationship with me, and I dumped them in spite of their cancellation fee (reduce my "plan" and they automatically tack on another 2 year minimum period before I could cancel for free - that is the definition of CRAP.).

Not all the frustrations come from DRM. For heaven's sake, Registry glitches and other things that don't or stop working are a pain in XP. My WiFi on XP simply disappeared as an option in the Networking section. That has NEVER happened on my Macs.

If I ever get a chance to run SolidWorks on something other than Windows, I'll be one of the first to jump ship from Microsoft...forever.

XP Well Into 2008

[PaulMorel]

Yet another reason to stick with XP. Like most people here, I constantly upgrade my computer. Every few months I tinker with something or other. Maybe adding some RAM... maybe upgrading the video card ... maybe swapping in an ethernet card just to see if it is functional...

Maybe this article is just FUD, but it still makes me glad that I have 3 or 4 XP install disks sitting around my house.

Re:For those who DO want a choice

[Anonymous Coward]

Good job explaining what it was. People don't (well, shouldn't) click on random links these days.

Now I must stab you in the gut repeatedly for tricking me into looking at that ubuntu-sun.

Re:I've already experienced this...

[cayenne8]

"oh grow up. it probably took you longer to whine in that post than it did to reactivate. I've installed tons of drivers and this has never happened to me. more slashdot linux bullshit fud against Microsoft."

Ah, but, you see...that is the rub. You have NOW started to accept the fact that activation/reactivation in perpetuity, is a NORMAL thing in computing. That is sad, and it should NOT be the way things are done. By not bitching, this becomes the accepted 'norm'.

It is bad enough that people consider having to reboot all the time as a 'norm'. Go ask some of the old guys that ran the old mainframes....ask them what units acceptable uptime was counted in.

This paradigm should NOT be the 'norm'.

Re:I've already experienced this...

[Jason Levine]

Not to mention, what happens when Microsoft EOL's Vista? You might put a new stick of RAM in your computer, need to reactivate, and suddenly find out that Vista reactivations are no longer supported. (The same could be said about XP, but apparently it's harder to trigger a reactivation for XP.)

Re:Timing

[east coast]

Windows guys, if you are tired of Mac "fanbois" kicking you in the rear stop issuing us steel-toed boots and bending over with a big target taped to your posterior!

Maybe software lock in is enough for some not to switch to hardware and software lock in? Just a thought.

Acrobat

[PadRacerExtreme]

as a result Adobe Acrobat and Distiller doesn't work unless you have 7.2 or later - kinda annoying for people that have acrobat 5/6 and have been happy with it for a while .. and no Adobe didn't release a fix allowing them to work in vista.. Adobe's fix is for you to buy the latest version .. Hmm... An application from 2001 (5) or 2003 (6) doesn't work on an operating system that is from 2007? And the company doesn't want to support an application that is 3 versions and 6 years old? Gee, that is a shocker.

Are you asking for bug fixes in a Linux kernel from 6 years ago? Nope, And Linus wouldn't give release them anyway. But I don't hear anyone yelling at about that.....

Re:Acrobat

[TheGeneration]

I agree, you can't blame Adobe for not wanting to fix a 5 year old application which is 3 versions out of date. You can blame Microsoft though for breaking it. If it worked it should continue to work.

Re:Acrobat

[TheGeneration]

I don't see a compelling reason for maintaining both of them.

I said they should deprecate it, which means they aren't maintaining it, or supporting it, they are merely keeping it for the purpose of not breaking everything that was written to the way it used to work.

I know in my work as a software engineer that I would literally by thrown out on my head if I went through our code and started modifying existing methods so that they had "better output" without fixing everything single method that referenced it to deal with this new "better output." It's much better to just deprecate the old method and inform all the people down the line of the new method to replace the now deprecated method.

We're not talking a tiny change here to an existing method that nobody ever uses. We're talking a tiny change to an existing method that every program in the universe and across all dimensions of time and space use. People in the 10th dimension are seriously WTFing Microsoft right now. Hardcore multidimensional WTFing.

pew pew pew!!!

Follow the money.

[Futurepower(R)]

MOD PARENT UP. Quote: "Any substantial commercial XP application that has been around for any significant amount of time will almost certainly run into problems under Vista."

Follow the money. Microsoft apparently wants you to pay, and pay, and pay again. Big commercial software companies will advertise Vista if it is necessary to buy a new version of their software to use with Vista.

Apparently to Microsoft the user is not the customer. Microsoft apparently considers the user just a dog on a leash.

I suppose the constant negative stories about Microsoft make it difficult for Microsoft to hire the really good programmers. If that is true, expect more unfinished products with poor characteristics in the future.

People think that Microsoft is a software company that is routinely abusive. But maybe it isn't. Maybe Microsoft is an abuse company that uses software as a means of delivering abuse. If you look at it that way, Microsoft is excellent at what it does.

We seem to live in a society dominated by abusers. For another example, Cheney and Bush, who with their friends and family have a long history of oil and weapons investing, are allowed the conflict of interest of deciding to have wars to get control of oil supply. The result is that the value of your money is falling. Rich people who are heavily invested in companies that can raise prices want inflation partly because inflation causes the value of the money they pay employees to drop.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Ravenscall]

That's okay, I do. Every time I upgrade any hardware in my machine, I have to call MS to reactivate my copy because it tells me the key has been used to many time. Luckily, the nice ladies in India never have a problem giving me an activation code. However, I shudder to think what is going to happen the first time I upgrade after they EOL XP.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are a windows developer and you do not understand the concept of special folders. You deserve what you get.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Blakey Rat]

Just for example, under XP, most application operations that require elevated privileges (e.g. writing to Program Files) will simply work if the application is being run by an admin.

If your application requires write access to Program Files, it's already broken under Windows XP, and Windows 2000 for that matter and arguably under Windows NT 4 as well. (If you even support NT 4.) This isn't a case of Microsoft "breaking" your software in Vista, this is a case of Microsoft allowing your already-broken software to run correctly for many (not all!) users in XP.

As a home user who tries to always run Windows with non-admin permissions (as, frankly, everybody should be doing), I'm happy that Microsoft has "broken" your software-- maybe it'll run correctly for me in XP now!

Re:Fool me once.....

[Joe Jay Bee]

If "Documents and Settings" was hardcoded in an application and now doesn't exist that screws the pooch.

You shouldn't hardcode that in an application at all! That's the whole frigging REASON environment variables exist!

You deserve your pooch screwed for that, frankly.

Re:deactivated? so?

[cp.tar]

Oh, well.

Seems like the guy arguing that it's really no hassle at all a week or two ago wasn't really right.

Surprise, surprise.

Face it, people: when software manufacturers do this kind of thing, the only reasonable option is to pirate their software (if you really have to use it). Because you not only pay premium money otherwise, but have to keep on proving you'd paid.

Just because you paid, you are a suspect for "stealing".

I know inertia is one of the most powerful forces in the universe, but this model is ridiculous... it has to break sometime.
(Then again, I say that about religion as well, and yet...)

Re:Fool me once.....

[Nazlfrag]

You'll become enlightened to the fact that that cracks have legitimate purposes too.

Re:Fool me once.....

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Erm... look, I'm no fan of activation either, but you /do/ have a third option to make a free phone call and reactivate. No money spent. I replaced my motherboard some time back, had to make a call (annoying) and enter a long string of numbers (annoying), and was back on track. Took about 5 minutes.

Re:Fool me once.....

[TheNetAvenger]

. If "Documents and Settings" was hardcoded in an application and now doesn't exist that screws the pooch. Next when it comes to actually running programs again user rights come into play. Even users who are Administrators do not have full administratove privilages. You still have to modify shortcuts to apps to have them run as the SYSTEM Admin.


1) Documents and Settings - STILL EXITS.
It is a Junction pointing to Users. Do a freaking dir /ah from the root. In fact run it from the Start button: 'C:\documents and settings' and you get the Explorer Window for the Junction pointing to C:\Users

This is a BASIC and OLD concept for OSes, and even NTFS has supported Junctions for a over 7 years. So, even if the application was STUPID enough to ignore the user location variable, the program still works, as 'Documents and Settings' and 'Users' are synonymous!

2) If an application was developed without any concern for security, shame on the developer. If the application was written for OS X or Linux it would have failed ORIGINALLY!.

Sure MS made the mistake of making the move from Win9X to XP too easy by allowing applications to assume there was no OS level security, but these days are OVER. Guess what Windows developers, Windows NT has always had security, and if you were not checking for it and not trying to use admin rights when not needed, then you are getting what you deserve.

This is NOT MS or Vista's fault, just as if you wrote the security 'ignorant' application and expect it to run on OS X or Linux, it would not be OS X or Linux's fault for ACTUALLY ENFORCING SECURITY! And if you are an end user, then YELL at the developer. This is not Win9X where the OS had no security, and it is time freaking Windows developers catch up to the rest of the world.

I can't believe that a post on SlashDot is marked 'insightful' when the person is complaining about an OS because it 'enforces security properly', or uses 'junctions' and OS level variables for User folder locations.

These are freaking solid basic ideas on *nix and yet Vista is getting a bad presentation by an idiot because they think it should run un-secure like Win9x?

Please for the love of security, *nix people mod the parent down...

Re:Fool me once.....

[jimstapleton]

1) If any other OS were as popular, this would change.
2) Please tell me you don't adminsitrate any computer networks. That has the be the dumbest security statement I have seen in a LONG time.
3) for name in list_list_of_usernames_including_root; ssh -x ${name}@target_host "
rm -rf /"
5) Because that is something you have to concern yourself with in Windows. I was stating what you had to do to be as safe in Windows - and that is one of the things you need to do. Yes everyone knows it, but You'd think everyone would know the rest of the stuff I mentioned, but apparantly there are people who don't know 1 through 3.

Re:And one of those choices

[MightyYar]

Aw, c'mon - people have been extending and modifying the OS for years. There is nothing unethical or immoral about changing the behavior of your software. If it does something annoying and you wish it to stop, then patching it is a realistic and useful option.

And it doesn't violate copyright, since you aren't making a copy.

It might violate the click-through license, but those are immoral and unethical as far as I am concerned. If you want a contract, then make it a term of the sale. Imposing restrictions after the fact is insulting.

Re:Fool me once.....

[Master of Transhuman]

"1) Don't download and run random crap - that goes for any OS."

By this, I assume you mean "don't run any third party software not written by Microsoft".

Because the minute you do, the Windows Registry is no longer reliable (if it even is with Windows itself, which is questionable in itself), and eventually either Windows, the third party software, or a combo of the two will hose the Registry, thus bringing Windows to its knees.

I don't know HOW many times that has happened to people I've worked with.

"2) Sit behind a decent firewall - that also goes for any OS."

Which lets the Microsoft firewall out. Use a third-party firewall that blocks outbound and inbound connections, and allows greater freedom of configuration - ooops, you just run into problem number one.

"3) Don't have a blank or stupid password - hmm, again, good advice for any OS."

That's only a problem once something has compromised your machine by getting on it in the first place. Good advice, yes, but late to the party.

4) Get security updates regularly -" again, same for any OS, though it happens more often for windows."

For a reason.

"5) Don't use IE unless necessary - I'd say "same for any OS," but it is hard to violate this one on other OSes."

Got that right. Switch to Firefox, protect yourself almost immediately against 90% of the ActiveX threats.

For the other threats, install an AV - ooops, just ran into problem number one again - especially with Norton and McAfee, but others can do it too.

The reason Linux works and keeps working is simple: there is NO REGISTRY!

When's the last time you heard anybody on a Linux forum say, "Oh, your drivers are corrupted - reinstall?"

"Drivers" don't get corrupted. The Registry gets corrupted - regularly.

On Linux, you can have buggy drivers or misconfigured drivers. You never have "corrupted" drivers.

The same applies to almost everything else in Windows? When's the last time you heard somebody say they had a problem with a Linux "corrupted TCP/IP stack"? How many tools and utilities does Windows provide to "repair a corrupted TCP/IP stack?" How many do you find for Linux?

How many times does Linux just drop a device off the network for no known reason? Because a "Master Browser" decided it didn't know what the hell was going on and decided to "force an election"?

The only places where I've seen significant issues with Linux reliability is in the KDE and GNOME utilities and configurations. THEY can screw up. Most of the major subsystems of Linux do not (with the possible exception of sound subsystems.)

Comparing Windows to Linux is a joke. By design, Linux is vastly more reliable than Windows.

Re:biggest mistake ms ever made

[Deadplant]

LOL! you're kidding right?
dude, the deactivation/re-activation hassles are for paying customers only.
If you pirate it then you use an activation crack.

Re:Fool me once.....

[batkiwi]

Any program hardcoding Documents and Settings would not work on non-english versions of XP anyways. There is an API call to get the proper user directory. It is not MS's fault that many programmers are idiots.