Babelfish Sparks Minor Diplomatic Row

Stony Stevenson writes with a link to a cautionary tale on the ITnews site. A group of journalists heading to The Netherlands were gathering some information prior to the trip. They sent off an email to the Dutch foreign ministry asking some questions, but as they weren't native speakers they needed some help. Unfortunately, they turned to Babelfish for official correspondence. "The beginning of the email read: 'Helloh bud, enclosed five of the questions in honor of the foreign minister: The mother your visit in Israel is a sleep to the favor or to the bed your mind on the conflict are Israeli Palestinian.'"

Comments

The question we're all thinking.

[SnoopJeDi]

Which babelfish are we talking about here?

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[caffeinemessiah]

Babelfish sparks minor diplomatic row

Morons trusting the legendary untrustworthiness of Babelfish for official work spark minor diplomatic row.

There.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[MBCook]

I saw this yesterday and chuckled a little, but it just raised a bunch of questions for me.

1. How good a journalist can you be if you trust Babelfish to translate stuff for you?
2. How could you rely on the answers you got since you'd have to run them through Babelfish also?
3. Could the interviewees not tell that it was a terrible machine translation? Are you telling me it was all perfect up until that sentence?

The first two are the ones that really puzzle me. Even if it were just a journalist at a high school paper, I would expect them to do better. Go ask for help from the local university or something. Babelfish? Really?

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[SatanicPuppy]

The real hilarity of it is, in the Netherlands, of all places, you can find tons of english speakers. Hell, the people who got the letter probably spoke decent english. Why, in gods name, would you do such an amatuer translation, and not just assume that someone will be able to read it.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[torako]

Idiots who trust legendary untrustworthiness of Babelfish for the official less important diplomatic file of the work spark. There, I translated it to Dutch and back using Babelfish for some added clarity.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[cayenne8]

They should have used the Hungarian phrasebook from Monty Python....

"Ya! Ya! Ya! Ya! Do you waaaaant ... do you waaaaaant ... to come back to my place, bouncy-bouncy?"

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[CastrTroy]

The one that leaves any untranslated words untranslated. This is probably my biggest beef with babelfish. I think it would be better if it returned the translation with the words it couldn't understand in red or something, or offer a choice of possibilities, based on words that looked the same.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[bodfa]

Actually they were translating from Hebrew to Dutch.
Note that the total number of Hebrew speakers is fairly small
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language/ (15 mil)
VS English with 1.8 billion. Odds are they would have had a translator anyway though...

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[WormholeFiend]

Moreover, why not go ahead and pay a translation service? professional translation with proofreading is usually less than $0.30 USD per word.

My guess is A) they did not want to spend any money and/or B) they were in a hurry.

Plus, for people in a hurry, rush translation orders usually (at least) double in price.

I remember one time, one of my translator colleagues got a call from a client in a hurry, asking why the translation was taking so long and if his [translation] machine was broken.

My colleague explained that translations are done by people, not machines, which also explained the cost. He added in jest/sarcasm that if someone wanted an instantaneous and free translation, one simply needed to use Babelfish.

Five minutes later, the office admin came to his desk, saying that translation order had been cancelled.

We laughed our collective asses off when we took that cancelled document and had it translated by Babelfish.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[lgw]

Why are these journalists, who should have had _some_ form of education You answered your own question there. It's not like these were bloggers, who would need to worry about getting their fact straight.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[Grygus]

I was with you for a while but the last part of your post is all encrypted or something.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[Killjoy_NL]

yeah make fucked up dutch the main trade language, that'll teach them ;)

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[ScrewMaster]

It's hardly obligatory ... however as a common communications medium it is extremely useful. Take Africa, for example ... there are so many different languages and incompatible dialects among the nations of that continent that if it weren't for English, they'd have no ability communicate at all. Hell, my gf is from there, and she tells me that people from neighboring villages often can't speak their native tongues to each other: they speak English! It's expected, if you want to do business beyond your immediate round. It has nothing to do with the beauty of the language, or how difficult it is to learn: it's what you need.

Then take China, which I understand has more students learning English than the entire population of the United States (yeah, that bothers me a little.) Let's not forget India, which has stolen a good chunk of China's economic thunder simply because they speak better English (for the time being.) The reality is this: the British Empire spread The Queen's English far and wide, and America's later scientific and economic prowess only cemented the value of that language to many peoples across the globe. You may not like the fact the English is today's lingua franca, but then again reality is something that most people on this miserable planet dislike intensely. You appear to be no different in that regard. Personally, I expect that tomorrow's common language will be Mandarin. Ha! And you thought English is hard to learn. I'd rather learn Spanish.

So far as those researchers are concerned: well, let's look at some facts there as well. Science is now (and has been for some time) a global phenomenon. You can complain that it's "needlessly hard" for scientists to publish their findings in English (and I'll grant that it's a burden, no argument) but what solution to that can you suggest? Babelfish? Yeah, right ... machine translation has a long way to go. Everybody publish in their native tongues? That would bring science to a standstill. Science is all about communication, scientists absolutely require that common ground.

As I pointed out, for a variety of historical reasons a working knowledge of English is actually a fairly common skill around the world: should such utility simply be disposed of because you find English "distasteful" or the Anglo-Saxon history unattractive (I don't fully grasp the relevance of your comment there, but okay)? That's ridiculous on the face of it: get over any anti-American bias you may have and accept that people (scientists and otherwise) speak English (of whatever variety) because it's often the only method they have to talk to each other.

Language is a tool, a means to an end, and you don't have to like a tool to use it. Another fact: people that refuse to learn a foreign language are people that haven't been in a position where that lack of knowledge cost them something, made their lives more difficult. Most Americans are like that, because America is a large country and most of us don't deal with people of other countries on a daily basis (well, other than Mexico, that is.) That's hardly the case in Europe, where you almost have to be a polyglot just to order dinner.

Or speak English.

Re:The question we're all thinking.

[jc42]

I find the number of people that spend quite a lot of money in English school for 6 years (or more) and speak but a mediocre English staggering. I wonder why that is? Maybe it has to do with English being hard. Yes. Hard. It might be easy for you, but I have dozens of English books around me so that I don't screw up too badly.

I've seen a number of debates over which languages are the most difficult on the planet. The winners in this "contest of shame" are always the ones with the most insane writing systems. First place seems to be a tie between Japanese and Korean, because they both use a jumbled mixture of home-grown phonetic writing plus borrowed Chinese characters. Second place is approximately a tie between the Chinese languages ("dialects";-) and English.

It's common for people not familiar with Chinese writing to claim that it's the world's worst. But in fact it has a significant phonetic component, and when you compare it with the irregularities of English spelling, they turn out to have roughly the same level of phonetic insanity. In most text, English spelling is about as phonetic as Chinese, and about as difficult to learn.

As a result of this, plus the unfortunate fact that English has become the world's "lingua franca" over the past century, some people whose native languages are not English have made a modest proposal: The people in the world who are forced to use English should gang up on the English-speaking part of the world (whom they outnumber), and develop a phonetic writing system for English. They wouldn't try to impose it on the English-speaking people; they would sneak it in through the back door.

They would start by presenting it as a teaching aid. There are already several good candidates for this used in schools in English-speaking countries. They really only need pick one as an international standard. Then they escalate by converting publications in their own countries to this phonetic system. The emphasis would not be converting the English-speaking countries to use it, because this wouldn't happen. Rather, the emphasis would be on converting the non-English parts of the world to using the phonetic system for their own purposes, and the traditional English spelling when dealing with native English speakers.

The idea would be that this approach could make learning English much easier for the rest of the world. And most documents written phonetically could be re-written by computer software with only a bit of human editing. If this system were established, the result could eventually be the slow adoption of the phonetic system by native English speakers.

It's sorta like how the metric system spread throughout the world, and is even making strong inroads in the UK and America. If done right, eventually the English-speaking people would succumb to their natural laziness, and use the easy system. The traditional spelling is a big waste of time to them, too, you know, especially during their school years.

If this seems like a good idea, you should talk it up with friends. Mention it in other online fora like this one. Maybe eventually people outside the English-speaking countries will take it seriously, and do it. It could save everyone a lot of time, and finally give English a decent writing system.

"Helloh Bud"

[baldass_newbie]

I thought that was a new strain of Dutch hydro at first...
Silly me.

They're only journalists

[iknownuttin]

"How could this email possibly have been sent?" an Israeli diplomat told the Jerusalem Post. "These journalists have sparked a major incident."

How can journalists spark a major diplomatic event?

Re:They're only journalists

[Volante3192]

William Randolph Hearst?

Muhammed cartoons?

Watergate?

Re:They're only journalists

[ichigo 2.0]

Most likely the diplomat wanted to feel important for resolving the "major incident".

Re:They're only journalists

[owlnation]

How can journalists spark a major diplomatic event?

Absolutely. I do not believe this story for one single second.

Firstly, diplomats are diplomats because they are smart and non-reactionary. They would not react like this to mails that presumably came from a domain that identified the senders as foreign journalists -- or otherwise identified the journalists as being just that.

In addition to this, (having lived in Holland myself) the Dutch are generally pretty good with the fact that few people speak Dutch. They are also used to dealing in a number of languages, and the sometimes accidental comedy that ensues. It's clear that the senders of this mail were not native speakers -- thus why would anyone overreact?

Truth is -- they wouldn't.

I call Bullshit.

Re:They're only journalists

[binford2k]

and babelfish doesn't even do Hebrew ....

Re:They're only journalists

[Anonymous Coward]

There was no overreaction.

According to local reporters here is what happenened: 5 Israeli journalists were preparing to go to The Netherlands. One of them, who (it turned out) didnt speak any English, was tasked with sending questions ahead. He used Babelfish to translate the Hebrew. Unfortunately, in Hebrew the word for "of" is close to the word for "mother". So, lots of "mother" in the text. Dutch diplomats were puzzled (I've read the text, it looked a bit like "all your mother belong to us") and asked for clarification. After which the other journalists found out and it was reported.

All in all, no big incident (just mild curiosity), but the journalists involved were very ashamed when it all came out and seem to have postponed their trips for the moment. Too bad, could have been fun having them on talkshows :)

Microsoft speech engine?

[pembo13]

Are you sure they didn't use some Microsoft based speech engine?

Huh?

[R2.0]

1) Why does anything involving a bunch of journalists have to do with diplomacy?

2) Does the country in question have a stick so far up their colective asses they couldn't laugh this off?

3) Or is the headline total flamebait, and I'm a sucker?

Re:Huh?

[magarity]

2) Does the country in question have a stick so far up their colective asses they couldn't laugh this off?
 
This seems the most likely answer. The text is so amazingly bad that it's obvious to anyone that it's at least a complete mistake, if not also obviously a very bad machine generated translation. It's not like the whole thing was reasonable except for one bad insult about the recipient's mother; the whole dang thing is just blatant nonsense.
 
If your spam filter didn't automatically junk any email addressed to 'Helloh Bud' then you should have the good sense to delete it yourself at that point, nevermind the rest.

What do you expect?

[AltGrendel]

They used the "English to Dutch Jive" setting.

Could be worse...

[Kelson]

At least the words, "I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle" didn't drift across the conference table, resonating across time and space.

It's not like this hasn't happened before...

[jspenguin1]

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

Lamentable occurrences have begat dude

[Critical Facilities]

Regression of palpable anguish forseen within future modification of linguistic tendency laden spoken word.*

* Translated via Babelfish from Dutch Foreign Minister's reply

Re:It could have been worse.

[UncHellMatt]

My nipples explode with DELIGHT!

could have been worse

[Rezazur]

Well, at least they didn't use the Vista speech recognition. That could end up as some MAJOR diplomatic misunderstanding...

Re:could have been worse

[Dancindan84]

Dear Aunt, enclosed five of the double killer the foreign minister select all

Old saying...

[Sique]

"To err is human, to really screw up, you need a computer."

That said I remember a story I heard once from a neighbour. He was in Moscow for a conference, and in the morning he spilled coffee on his tie. So he was wondering i) where to get a necktie in the morning around the hotel and ii) what the hell the russian word for "necktie" is. He remembered: It was similar to the german word for the same thing. So he just tried, walked over to the nearest kiosque and asked the russian lady: "Kravat?" She was killing him with her stare, and he suddenly realized: kravat = bed. galstukh = necktie.

The translation was "flawed"

[vux984]

FTFA:

The beginning of the email read: 'Helloh bud, enclosed five of the questions in honor of the foreign minister: The mother your visit in Israel is a sleep to the favor or to the bed your mind on the conflict are Israeli Palestinian.'

The translation was flawed as Babelfish confused 'ha'im', the Hebrew word for 'if', with 'ha'ima', which means 'mother'.

Oh!!! Of course, that makes sense. Lets fix that right up: s/mother/if

Helloh bud, enclosed five of the questions in honor of the foreign minister: The if your visit in Israel is a sleep to the favor or to the bed your mind on the conflict are Israeli Palestinian.

I don't know about you, but I suspect there might be additional flaws.

This isn't much different than a typical HS Grad.

[tiedyejeremy]

Sad but true. I've seen too many people who have passed the National Standardized Tests and graduated High School who write about as coherently as what was posted.

Mod Parent Up!

[explosivejared]

So true! Journalists are a powerful group. They are the eyes and ears of the public and have a tremendous influence on public opinion. The lead up to the war in Iraq. No journalists asked questions, no politicians. Journalists wield the power to shape perception, and perception might as well be reality for most people.

Re:Mod Parent Up!

[lgw]

Journalists write fiction related to current events. It astounds me that they have any credibility left. Have you ever read manistream journalism about a technical issue that you were expert in? Total crap right? Do you think that's unusual somehow? Have you ever been interviewed, or read about events in which you participated? Total fabrication, right? Do you think that's somehow unusual?

Even when people complain about the press, they usually complain about the press failing to mislead the public in the correct direction. Amazing.

Re:Mod Parent Up!

[Koiu Lpoi]

The technical issue is often due to Journalists having to dumb down technical subjects for the public to understand - or, in some cases, to have technical issues dumed down for them.

As for the "Total fabrication, right?" line, remember that journalists have an obligation to report on only the facts and what's told to them by credible sources. Chances are very good that, despite you thinking you most absolutely know what happened, chances are you haven't a clue. It's the same affect as witnesses to crimes. That's why the press "fabricates" (read: uses the credible sources for) their stories.

I'll probably get modded down for saying this, but lately on Slashdot it seems that bashing the press without justifiation is the best way to get modded up, besides being xenophobic and elitist.

Summary translated to Dutch and back

[rhennigan]

Masonry Stevenson write ITnews with a connection to a warning tale at the place. A group journalists who lead to the Netherlands collected what information before travel. They sent a e-mail to the Dutch foreign ministry putting some questions, but since they were no domestic participants they had one or other aid necessary. Unfortunately, they twisted to Babelfish for official correspondence. The beginning of read e-mail: Included bud Helloh, five of the questions for the ere of the Minister for Foreign Affairs: The mother your visit in Israel is a sleep to the grace or to the bed your opinion on the conflict Israeli palestijn is.

Oblig.

[rock217]

Jive Lady: Oh stewardess! I speak jive.
Randy: Oh, good.
Jive Lady: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him.
Randy: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine?
Jive Lady: Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.
Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap!
Jive Lady: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!
First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up!
Jive Lady: Jive ass dude don't got no brains anyhow! Hmmph!

Hitchhiker's Guide

[Volfied]

Ironically, the "original" Babel Fish was supposed to have caused more and bloodier wars than any other discovery in galactic history because it increased understanding between planets.

English As She Is Spoke - Twain is Proved WRONG!

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

"Nobody can add to the absurdity of this book, nobody can imitate it successfully, nobody can hope to produce its fellow; it is perfect."
--Mark Twain, on English as She Is Spoke

We have bested the Portuguese masters of muddle! It took the brilliance of a near-passing grade on the Turing test.

Babelfish Doesn't Translate Hebrew

[Slashdot Parent]

I can't find any Hebrew translation option on the babelfish website.

Furthermore, in the Jerusalem Post article, they point to a site babelfish.com, which appears to be a SEO site and doesn't do translations at all.

Compound that with the question of "Why would the Dutch Foreign Ministry care about an email from some random Israeli reporter?", and I'm guessing that this entire story is a hoax.

Yes, I realize that the Jerusalem Post is supposedly a high-quality paper, but the fact that they linked to a site (babelfish.com) that doesn't even do online translations makes me think that this wasn't their most well-researched and well-substantiated work. If this is really causing such a fuss in Holland, how come there is nothing in the Dutch press about this?

Re:Babelfish Doesn't Translate Hebrew

[zmooc]

It's not a hoax for sure; the Dutch government responded that it was real and that it didn't really bother them. They cancelled the trip the interview was about, however, since the journalists didn't speak english well enough for it to be of any use;-)

The translation with babelfish was from english to dutch - probably they used other software to translate from hebrew to english first.

But the part about the dutch government giving a fuck was definately a hoax.

If you can read dutch, here's a link. http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/120757/E-mail-Isra%C3%ABl-schokt-Verhagen.html

in addition, totally unnecessary

[avi33]

The funny thing is, even high school dropouts in the Netherlands are likely to speak English, French, and German quite well (though they often hold back on speaking German for, uh, cultural reasons). They are a stone's throw from countries speaking those languages, and unlike many other places, when they import television shows, they keep the original languages and add the subtitles in Dutch.

Plus the Dutch language is not deep in terms of dimensional vocabulary. While the Eskimos may have 70 words for snow, Dutch probably has one. I remember watching a movie and the English line was something like "the pain doesn't hurt" and the Dutch translation was "Pijn is nicht pijn" - Pain is not pain.

Of course it's very respectful to try to speak someone's language, especially when most of your countrymen (and the rest of the world, generally) don't bother. A diplomatic row? I doubt it.

Re:in addition, totally unnecessary

[Bob Boswell]

While the Eskimos may have 70 words for snow

Not quite, according to Stephen Fry, ( QI ), who reckons it's one of those Arctic myths.

How many words do the Eskimo have for snow?
A popular myth claims that the Eskimos have 50, 100 or even 400 words for snow in their language, compared to English's one word. Like all myths, this one is not exactly true. When you consider how many words there are in English to describe snow (such as ice, slush, sleet, hail, snow flake, powder, frozen water, etc.) it becomes evident that to count all of the words that people in snowy cultures have for snow would be impossible. Not only is it impossible to define what would count as a substitute for 'snow,' there exists no single 'Eskimo' language. At most, linguists argue that out of all of the languages of Eskimo groups, there are 4 root words for snow, to which various adjectives are added.

http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2939&start=30&sid=5f67d99f30a3543309278c29a8e3af64

The original grammer nazi

[Joe the Lesser]

CENTURION: What's this, then? 'Romanes Eunt Domus'? 'People called Romanes they go the house'?
BRIAN: It-- it says, 'Romans, go home'.
CENTURION: No, it doesn't. What's Latin for 'Roman'? Come on!
BRIAN: Aah!
CENTURION: Come on!
BRIAN: 'R-- Romanus'?
CENTURION: Goes like...?
BRIAN: 'Annus'?
CENTURION: Vocative plural of 'annus' is...?
BRIAN: Eh. 'Anni'?
CENTURION: 'Romani'. 'Eunt'? What is 'eunt'?
BRIAN: 'Go'. Let--
CENTURION: Conjugate the verb 'to go'.
BRIAN: Uh. 'Ire'. Uh, 'eo'. 'Is'. 'It'. 'Imus'. 'Itis'. 'Eunt'.
CENTURION: So 'eunt' is...?
BRIAN: Ah, huh, third person plural, uh, present indicative. Uh, 'they go'.
CENTURION: But 'Romans, go home' is an order, so you must use the...?
BRIAN: The... imperative!
CENTURION: Which is...?
BRIAN: Umm! Oh. Oh. Um, 'i'. 'I'!
CENTURION: How many Romans?
BRIAN: Ah! 'I'-- Plural. Plural. 'Ite'. 'Ite'.
CENTURION: 'Ite'.
BRIAN: Ah. Eh.
CENTURION: 'Domus'?
BRIAN: Eh.
CENTURION: Nominative?
BRIAN: Oh.
CENTURION: 'Go home'? This is motion towards. Isn't it, boy?
BRIAN: Ah. Ah, dative, sir! Ahh! No, not dative! Not the dative, sir! No! Ah! Oh, the... accusative! Accusative! Ah! 'Domum', sir! 'Ad domum'! Ah! Oooh! Ah!
CENTURION: Except that 'domus' takes the...?
BRIAN: The locative, sir!
CENTURION: Which is...?!
BRIAN: 'Domum'.
CENTURION: 'Domum'.
BRIAN: Aaah! Ah.
CENTURION: 'Um'. Understand?
BRIAN: Yes, sir.
CENTURION: Now, write it out a hundred times.
BRIAN: Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

Linked story is wrong

[Minwee]

It couldn't have possibly been Babelfish, since Babelfish doesn't support Hebrew.

It may have been babylon.com, but this hasn't been confirmed.

Re:Well, at least it wasn't...

[Rob T Firefly]

All your mother are belong to Israel?

Re:A more general saying would be

[Sique]

Computers are just like greek gods. They are capable, they are omnipotent, they just take everything you demand literally. Basicly computers are just levers mounted to your own incompetence, and they increase hundredfold every mistake you make.

Whole Story is BS

[Slashdot Parent]

I'm beginning to suspect that the whole story is a hoax.

First off, babelfish doesn't translate Hebrew, and with good reason. Hebrew is hard for a computer to translate. The three letters, Heh Aleph Mem could have just as easily been translated to "the nation" or "the nut" (as in nuts and bolts) as it was to "the mother". The only way to know the correct translation is to know the context of the word, which is not always easy.

Secondly, whomever wrote this hoax doesn't speak Hebrew very well. You don't have to go from "ha'im" to "ha'ima" to get from "if" to "the mother". In fact, the letters Heh Aleph Mem could be read as "ha'im" (if) or "ha'aim" (the mother) without having to add a letter to get all the way to "ha'ima".

Lastly, the Dutch are world-renowned for their extreme tolerance. There is no way a Dutch person would be deeply offended over something like this.

TFA is cr@p -- check The Register

[Half-pint HAL]

They translated it from Hebrew to English (not Dutch) -- hence the availability of quotes in English.

The Reg also initially made the mistake of trusting their source unquestioningly and didn't think to check whether Babelfish actually had a Hebrew option (I'm surprised how few of you checked!), but to their credit, they've updated. Check it out... there's a new culprit in the frame, but I won't name names for fear of libel suits if it's not true.

HAL.

Before they were led away...

[writermike]

Before the journalists were led away by police, one of them could be heard yelling, "My nipples explode with delight!"

Terms of service

[kryten_nl]

They should have read the Babelfish terms of service, they're probably liable now.

6. MEMBER CONDUCT
(...)
You agree to not use the Service to:
(...)
o. translate any correspondence, of any kind, which could lead to diplomatic rows, a chilling of diplomatic relations, armed hostilities, and/or Global Thermal Nuclear War.

Maybe I shouldn't have sent that letter to Iran

[WillAffleckUW]

Where I accepted the translation from "All your base are belong to US" instead of "All your base are belong to us".

Babelfish fun

[ukemike]

I like translating a sentence back and forth between languages.

english->spanish->english

I have taste to backwards translate an oration forwards and between the languages.

english->german->english

I may translate a sentence between languages back and forth.

english->russian->english

I love to transfer proposal back and forth between the languages.

english->greek->english

I wish a proposal back and forth between the languages.