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A Legal Analysis of the Sony BMG Rootkit Debacle

YIAAL writes "Two lawyers from the Berkeley Center for Law and Technology look at the Sony BMG Rootkit debacle: 'The Article first addresses the market-based rationales that likely influenced Sony BMG's deployment of these DRM systems and reveals that even the most charitable interpretation of Sony BMG's internal strategizing demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy. After taking stock of the then-existing technological environment that both encouraged and enabled the distribution of these protection measures, the Article examines law, the third vector of influence on Sony BMG's decision to release flawed protection measures into the wild, and argues that existing doctrine in the fields of contract, intellectual property, and consumer protection law fails to adequately counter the technological and market forces that allowed a self-interested actor to inflict these harms on the public.' Yes, under 'even the most charitable interpretation' it was a lousy idea. The article also suggests some changes to the DMCA to protect consumers from this sort of intrusive, and security-undermining, technique in the future."

227 comments

  1. Nothing like... by ellenbee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good old greed..

    1. Re:Nothing like... by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't even care about money.

      Look at it this way. During the time you spend filling the tank in your H2, you will have made ten or twenty times the the money you will spend on the gas. You don't need to care about the money. It ended up being a pittance anyway. They effectively lost nothing. And consumers still flock to buy their stuff as fast as they can put it out. How much longer till someone discovers XCP v2.0? Rinse, repeat. v3...4...5 This won't stop until we vote their shills out of office and quit buying their "crappy" products, from them and from any other company in their portfolio.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Nothing like... by infonography · · Score: 1

      They don't even care about money.

      Look at it this way. During the time you spend filling the tank in your H2, you will have made ten or twenty times the the money you will spend on the gas. You don't need to care about the money. It ended up being a pittance anyway. They effectively lost nothing. And consumers still flock to buy their stuff as fast as they can put it out. SNIP Sony doesn't care, They only have that end of the biz to offset the huge buckets of money they get from their electronics and movie side. Rock stars are whinny little bitches with attitudes. They make no money from Sony until the fourth album and most of their living comes off their concerts. Oh and Sony gets a nice slice of that too.

      And nobody bothers with Payola anymore as they stations get a slice of the concerts that they promote. Maybe the DJs get some duckets from up and comers but self interest on the part of the station is what pushes music. If Britney is coming to town then she gets more airplay magically.
      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    3. Re:Nothing like... by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 3, Informative

      In fact Sony/BMG gets no money from electronics because they don't make electronics. Sony Corporation makes electronics. Sony/BMG is not Sony, that's why they have the "BMG" in their name. In case you were interested Sony/BMG was formed by the combination of spinoffs Sony Music and 'B'ertelsmann 'M'usic 'G'roup, with all of the higher ups from the Bertelsmann side. It is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann.

    4. Re:Nothing like... by donaldm · · Score: 1

      I suppose anything that uses DRM protection can be considered greed because this uses some form of stealth to stop so called unauthorised use.

      Actually I think you really need to define what a root-kit is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit (I particularly like the part about "non-hostile rootkits") and in the case of the Sony-BMG root-kit it all boiled down to DRM and greed if you like which actually installed hidden files which were difficult to find by "normal" means. Ok this was not a good thing but when you really think about it should we not point the finger at the Operating System for allowing a so-called normal user to install files in a system area and the so-called virus protection for not picking it up.

      What is even worse quite a lot of software many not create hidden files (some do) but actually create entries in the "registry" and even if the software has a removal tool (ie. Uninstall) some registry entries are not removed. Of course we know these entries are there for the users own good (cough!). The best way of checking this is to download a demo program of some commercial software and test it for the trial period until the license expires. Now remove the demo program and try to re-install it. Depending on the program you may not be able to do this since in some cases hidden files or registry entries are used to protect against re-installation. The definition of rootkit starts to get very murky when considering this, although I suppose if you really read the Eula it would have mentioned this.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    5. Re:Nothing like... by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      Actually I think you really need to define what a root-kit is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit (I particularly like the part about "non-hostile rootkits")


      If somebody does something to my computer that is intended to be hidden from my knowledge and prevents me from doing something with my computer, I sure as hell consider it hostile.
      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    6. Re:Nothing like... by NeoSkink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This won't stop until we vote their shills out of office and quit buying their "crappy" products, from them and from any other company in their portfolio.

      And I'd love to! I really would! But how do you find independent music?

      Labels provide advertisement and exposure. I know what artists I like because I hear them on the radio, in movies and coke commercials. I'd like to switch to supporting independent artists (because like all of Slashdot, the labels really piss me off) but I don't know how to find them.

      So I need suggestions: What is the best way to be exposed to independent artists? Is there a search engine, maybe a site with radio streams organized by genre?

      I want to kick the RIAA habit, but I can't do it alone.

    7. Re:Nothing like... by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Funny

      But how do you find independent music?

      You're not serious! My god They're all over the place. Playing at your local bar, park, what have you. They advertise in the papers sometimes. They're all over this new fangled "internet" thing. Of course the majors are trying to put an end to that. I wouldn't know where to begin, the options are so many. There still might be some decent college stations around. Start here maybe? That alone should keep you occupied for the rest of the day.

      --
      What?
    8. Re:Nothing like... by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      reveals that even the most charitable interpretation of Sony BMG's internal strategizing demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy

      Greed indeed. They value security and privacy, they just don't valiue yours. If I rooted their compters with a trojan like they did to me when my daughter ran the software on a music CD she PURCHASED, ironically from th estore she worked at, my old ass would be sitting in a cell right now.

      Nobody has ever adequately explained to me how Sony execs stayed out of prison and weren't even charged with a crime. Until they do I'll be forced to believe that it's because of one of "mcgrew's lasw": No rich and powerful man ever goes to prison unless a richer more powerful man wants him there.

      Of course this pertains to the USSA only, YMMV.

      -mcgrew

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    9. Re:Nothing like... by sm62704 · · Score: 1
      This won't stop until we vote their shills out of office

      There are a few impediments to that happening.
      1. They are a world wide multinational corporation. Even if we were to get their shills out of USSA politics, it wouldn't affect anyone else.
      2. When they "donate" ten million to the Republican and another ten million to the Democrat, it doesn't matter which Republicrat loses, Sony wins.
      3. As long as the corporations control the media, the media will continue to convince everyone that if you vote for any candidate that is not a Republicrat you're wasting your vote.

      -mcgrew
      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    10. Re:Nothing like... by sm62704 · · Score: 1
      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    11. Re:Nothing like... by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      There are a few impediments to that happening.

      I don't know how many times I gotta say it. (In Soviet America) The only impediment is YOU. Look nowhere else.

      Breakdown, breakdown

      When they "donate" ten million to the Republican and another ten million to the Democrat, it doesn't matter which Republicrat loses, Sony wins.

      Only when YOU vote for a democrat or a republican. They cannot win without your vote.

      As long as the corporations control the media, the media will continue to convince everyone that if you vote for any candidate that is not a Republicrat you're wasting your vote.

      Everyone? I should think not. So who should I blame? The "convincer"? Or the "convincee"? I choose the latter.

      --
      What?
    12. Re:Nothing like... by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Find your local alternative weekly paper. It will be free. Look at their listing of local shows, pick one that sounds interesting and go. Also read their album reviews.

      For less local stuff I like Arthur Magazine (web and print, also free if you can find it) and Pitchfork Media (on the web).

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    13. Re:Nothing like... by CaptainZapp · · Score: 1

      In case you were interested Sony/BMG was formed by the combination of spinoffs Sony Music and 'B'ertelsmann 'M'usic 'G'roup, with all of the higher ups from the Bertelsmann side. It is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann.

      This is true, of course, but doesn't discount the fact that it is the content arm owned by Sony (apart from the Sony/BMG joint venture Columbia Pictures), which seems to call the shots for the last two decades

      In this time they morphed from one of the most innovative electronics companies to a bunch of frothing control freaks that design products, which are proprietary, locked down to hell and then some and generally aim right in the other direction of what consumers want.

      Case in point? Until 2005 Sonys portable audio players didn't natively support MP3. You where forced to transcode your music with this abyssimal piece of crapware called SonicStage to the proprietary Atrac format, which nobody used (Japan may be an exception) and nobody liked.

      I really couldn't care less what Sony/BMGs corporate structure is. With the rootkit fiasco combined with the paranoya-design methodology that they apply to their products Sony managed it onto my eternal shitlist.

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    14. Re:Nothing like... by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      The only impediment is YOU

      No, it's the other 299,398,483 people. I split my vote between the Greens and the Libertarians.

      Only when YOU vote for a democrat or a republican. They cannot win without your vote.

      Then why do they continue winning? As I said, I split vote between the Greens and Libertarians.

      Everyone?

      Statistically speaking, yes.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  2. More legal stuff? by angryfirelord · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Just send Chuck Norris over there for crying out loud!

    1. Re:More legal stuff? by hoopshank · · Score: 1

      Why? Is he the 'self-interested actor' mentioned in the text?

  3. It's the wee hours... by explosivejared · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... of the morning, so I'll bite. I'll admit that I only got as far as reading the abstract, so sue me. I really don't see the need for a journal published paper to dissect the situation. Sony got caught up in the zeitgeist over Napster and how digital distribution was going to destroy their business model, just like how Hollywood freaked over the VCR. I think paranoia and utter indifference to the customer pretty much sums up the whole situation. Other than that, I don't see the need to dredge up a two-year old incident with a published paper, other than it's pretty late.

    --
    I got a catholic block.
    1. Re:It's the wee hours... by qzjul · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My immediate thoughts upon reading it were quite the opposite actually: Having a journal article written about this might make these issues more difficult for congress to ignore or dismiss as sensationalism; if they actually take note, those who are not already in the pockets of the recording industry may find it more difficult to follow those who are.

      Any piece of solid, credible research that demonstrates the reality of the situation is welcomed by me; eventually - if enough of these sorts of things are published - the weight of the evidence may become too overbearing for even the recording industry to buy off elected officials.

    2. Re:It's the wee hours... by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

      I'm interested. I dugg it just so I can go back to it later when I have more time.

  4. Its a moral issue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This shouldn't be about laws, its a moral issue.

    Laws don't and should not be the only guiding factor in the actions of people or corporations. It is not the case that anything specifically prevented by law is allowed. A person or corporation should also be a good citizen, and there are things you just should not do, such as inflict root kits on other people's computers.

    The question then is; how did somebody at Sony arrive at the conclusion that they should try to protect their IP right in this manner?

    Waas this a comittee decision where moral judgement went out the window in a corporate meeting? Or are people at Sony severely lacking personal moral judgement?

    I would like to know.

    1. Re:Its a moral issue. by arivanov · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that morals are specifically off the society book nowdays. Standalone (without religios tint) morals and how society functions are not something kids study in school or at home. At best they get a version which was skewed and slanted through the prism of their family religion. At worst they do not get anything. The situation is same all over US, UK and most of Europe. The rest of the world closely follows.

      Sigh... As usually Heinlein "Starship Troopers" is probably right. We need "History and Moral Philosophy" lessons in school. Though there is noone to teach them in the current generation.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    2. Re:Its a moral issue. by phalse+phace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The question then is; how did somebody at Sony arrive at the conclusion that they should try to protect their IP right in this manner?"

      Seems like when it comes to protecting their a$$e$, they don't care about morals. Anything goes. It's sad to say, but it all comes down to the all mighty dollar for these companies/corporations.

      Then again, I'm a cynic.

    3. Re:Its a moral issue. by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      Sigh... As usually Heinlein "Starship Troopers" is probably right. We need "History and Moral Philosophy" lessons in school. Though there is noone to teach them in the current generation.

      Quite probably, but his main point, which that lesson was supposed to back up, was granting of franchise only on completion of public service. You'd never get that one through.

      As much as I like that story, and its one of my all time favorite books, it starts with the premise that returning soldiers would essentially take over the world and everything would be wonderful thereafter. History has shown quite clearly that every time this occurs things go badly.

    4. Re:Its a moral issue. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Informative

      this article uncovers the modivation behind the rootkit project... Rootkit Open Sourced (link to http://fohootville.myminicity.com/ ) Link in parent is some sort of datamining site

      [06:52] gotcha: MyMiniCity is designed to capture information from all its visitors. thank you for your participation.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    5. Re:Its a moral issue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Laws don't and should not be the only guiding factor in the actions of people or corporations.

      Sorry, aside from not explicitly breaking the law, the only responsibility of a corporation in the United States is to enhance shareholder value. If they fail in this, the shareholders can sue management's ass off.

      If management can somehow argue that a public good (charitable donations, installing green technology, etc.) can increase shareholder value, they can get away with it.

      WalFart will plow enough money into local projects to make it seem like they're good corporate citizens, thereby providing some kind of a buffer against local opposition to locating a new store. But they will damned well expect to make enough profit off the new store to repay themselves well beyond the value of the donations.

    6. Re:Its a moral issue. by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Laws are there to make immoral and amoral people act according to the moral will of society.

      In other words, laws enforce society's idea of moral behaviour.

    7. Re:Its a moral issue. by Karellen · · Score: 1

      It's one of the reasons I run Linux -

      "Let's put it this way: if you need to ask a lawyer whether what you do is "right" or not, you are morally corrupt. Let's not go there. We don't base our morality on law."

        -- Linus Torvalds

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    8. Re:Its a moral issue. by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As much as I like that story, and its one of my all time favorite books, it starts with the premise that returning soldiers would essentially take over the world and everything would be wonderful thereafter. History has shown quite clearly that every time this occurs things go badly.

      Except that they don't become "Citizens" until *after* they have served, and are no longer in the military. History has indeed shown that when the military takes over the government, then yes, bad things happen. But that's not the system that was described. It was civilians who had *previously* served in the military. Even today, one of the qualifications that many people look for in their elected leaders is previous military service.

      History has shown that when citizens are ignorant of history, the means by which they both first gained and retain their freedoms, and by which their country remains free from attack, very bad things happen. Pearl Harbor happened because Japan saw that America after WW1 had shrunk their military to a fraction of its' previous strength, and the citizens and most of the government had a policy of isolationism and retreat from world conflict. Japan failed to take into account the American peoples' outrage and anger, and the sleeping industrial might America could bring to bear.

      The surest way to get robbed in a big city is to look and act like a victim. The surest way to start a war is to appear conquerable to other nations with acceptable losses. That's precisely what the people who advocate unilateral disarmament, and also those who preach disengagement when targeted by terrorists, fail to understand.

      As to the Sony/BMG rootkit incident, as long as the punishment for getting caught in bad corporate behavior is acceptable, expect to see such behavior repeated.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    9. Re:Its a moral issue. by lareader · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just a minor thing on Starship Troopers:
      Not all the people who volunteered for public service ended up as soldiers - they simply ended up doing what their society thought it needed and they had the ability to do.

      Heinlein actually wrote a bit about the "world" of Starship Troopers in Expanding Universe (in a retrospective on his literary career).
      At the time when the events in the book take place, quite a lot of people were needed as soldiers - but due to the way we people are wired (with tight-nit social groups as soldiers), soldiers were usually the last to stop serving in public and thus the last to actually get to vote.
      Yes, you didn't get the franchise until *after* you've stopped serving in that world.

      I do agree that the premise is shaky - but the idea of not giving everyone franchise just because they were 18 years old and alive was one of the ideas Heinlein was toying with in that book.
      Of course, he argued that clearly the founders of US of A never intended everyone to get the franchise either - his criterion were simply a bit more merit-based.

      In Expanding Universe he did mention that the idea of having stable people with a stake in maintaining a working society as a rather good idea, and goes on arguing for removing the franchise from men and giving it to women who have born children, as they have a personal reason for being interested in having a society that works... and makes a rather convincing argument of it.

      I can heartily recommend Expanding Universe if you are interested in what Heinlein said he was thinking when writing.
      As with all things written down, of course, you must consider the source - but I got a lot of amusement out of his writings, and like his meritocratic views personally.
      The book "Requiem" is also a good read, if a trifle sad at times - but it did contain his speeches at a few scifi conventions which I hadn't read - highly interesting for a person not born until the last years of the Red Scare.

      (Sorry for pushing Heinlein, but I really liked those books and they represent a very enlightening perspective on what Heinlein professed to believe.)

    10. Re:Its a moral issue. by Frater+219 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The question then is; how did somebody at Sony arrive at the conclusion that they should try to protect their IP right in this manner?

      This is probably not best discussed in terms of "protecting IP rights" but rather in terms of:

      1. Individual decision-makers in the organization trying to protect their own personal interests (cover your ass, look busy, do something!);
      2. An interest in seizing control (squatting, adverse possession, invasion) of the user's desktop, in order to use that as a foothold to greater control over the medium;
      3. High-pressure and deceptive sales tactics by the spyware makers.

      Someone at Sony was charged with "doing something" and "making the piracy problem go away". They were desperate. They also wanted something to show for their efforts, namely, an ability to exercise power on user desktops. (Recall, the copyright terrorists have long wanted "self-help" capabilities that amount to sabotaging users' property at will.)

      Spyware must have seemed like a perfect solution: it doesn't just "do something" about the pirates, it accomplishes a long-standing goal of seizing greater control of the medium. It is not at all about "IP rights"; it's about power -- in this case, about ripping power out of the users' hands.

    11. Re:Its a moral issue. by Elldallan · · Score: 1

      Morals is something personal that differ from person to person, Laws is something decided by society.
      Companies and Corporations will often ignore morals either because the profit is worth it or because the person making that decision has differeing moral values. The chances of both these events happening increases relative to the corporation's employee base and yearly product.

      Same things applies to laws except that the deciding factors is punishment and likelihood of getting caught. Thus the punishment ought to be fluid(percentage of gross yearly product for example) because the larger a company/corporation is the less impact does a set value fine impact it.

      In my personal opinion society should not rely on the moral conviction of a corporation's employees to guide corporation's action because as we've seen time and time again moral values fail to keep corporations in line, stiff fines relative to said corporation's gross yearly product would be a bigger incentive to keep them in line.

    12. Re:Its a moral issue. by vtcodger · · Score: 2, Insightful
      ***Quite probably, but his main point, which that lesson was supposed to back up, was granting of franchise only on completion of public service. You'd never get that one through.***

      Eh, why not? The US political system accepts more peculiar stuff than that every year -- DMCA, prohibition, NAFTA, the War on Drugs, Guantanamo. A few TV ads; a couple of movies; an all out offensive on the talk shows; (and a grandfather clause for the current crop of reprobates). I think it'd be an easy sell.

      ***As much as I like that story, and its one of my all time favorite books, it starts with the premise that returning soldiers would essentially take over the world and everything would be wonderful thereafter. History has shown quite clearly that every time this occurs things go badly.***

      Actually, history pretty much neutral on the subject. Military men are not necessarily either authoritarian or pro-war. Witness Carter (he's an Annapolis graduate and served 7 years on active duty) or Colin Powell who seems to have been the only guy in the top rank of the Bush administration who tried to head off the Iraq fiasco. Not that military men are necessarily the best men to put in charge. Some -- Washington, Eisenhower -- did pretty well. Some didn't.

      As I recall, Heinlein was quite specific that public service was not limited to military service. OTOH, public service is not a guarantee of quality. I have trouble imagining either our current Dear Leader or his predecessor signing up for any job where their precious ass was likely to get shot at, but, I'm quite sure the Clinton at least would have found a (safe) way to check off the Public Service requirement.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    13. Re:Its a moral issue. by Azuma+Hazuki · · Score: 1

      *WE* need to teach them. We, the parents and future parents. School, in the US at least, is glorified babysitting, and our children sure as hell are not going to learn anything good from mainstream TV or community leaders. It's up to us.

      Notwithstanding stupid adoption and marriage laws I think my girlfriend and I could do a better job than the bog-standard heterosexual Christian couple this country seems to fetishize as the epitome of "fammiwy valyoos." We've both studied a lot of holy scripture, history, psychology, and parenting books (I even took a 300-level psych course in child development as a college freshman), and I've been dreaming of a daughter since age 14, more than a third of my life. We could do this.

      It seems that the problem is that no one educated the parents. They were either too busy (secular), too scared (religious), or too cynical (either one) to get a solid grounding in the timeless morals, the ones that are good for humans no matter when and where they live. People like us are probably pretty rare in that respect, but it's our duty to do what we can.

      --
      ~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
    14. Re:Its a moral issue. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Spyware must have seemed like a perfect solution: it doesn't just "do something" about the pirates, it accomplishes a long-standing goal of seizing greater control of the medium. It is not at all about "IP rights"; it's about power -- in this case, about ripping power out of the users' hands.

      There are only three basic goals that humans pursue:

      • pride,
      • power (aka money), and
      • pussy

      And deep down in our genes, the first two are little more than a means to the third. ('Novelty' may be in there too, but probably not at the same urgency level as the others.)

      A corporation is a social pattern that focuses these motives from many people into one direction. It reinforces and excuses the baser ways of obtaining these things, making both perpetrators and victims faceless... but the motives are the same.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    15. Re:Its a moral issue. by zehaeva · · Score: 1

      A person or corporation should also be a good citizen

      emphasis mine

      I am quite intrigued by your wording here. You imply that Corporate entities should be citizens of their resident country in and of their own right. Would this too imply that they have rights like Freedom of Speech and Freedom to Bare Arms, does this include the right to vote? Does this mean that they are punishable for Treason?

      I do not mean to belittle your choice of words, but the implications are fascinating. Imagine if Corporations were indeed subject to all the above and more, give GE and Google a vote (only one, they are only one entity as it is; also they would need to have their headquarters here in the states wouldn't they? If they left then they couldn't be a citizen of this country right?)

      Just thinking through the implications for corporations if they were to be treated as a full fledged citizen, well its quite mind boggling, but very, very interesting.

    16. Re:Its a moral issue. by kmac06 · · Score: 1

      Let me get this straight...rather than the family instilling values in their children, you think it should be the responsibility of the GOVERNMENT RUN SCHOOLS to teach people morality?

      Maybe we should just skip this step, and go straight to government reeducation centers.

    17. Re:Its a moral issue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also an opportunity for more optimistic folk to cash in: www.cafepress.com/syscamo

    18. Re:Its a moral issue. by dpilot · · Score: 1

      It's also worth mentioning that of the 2001 Bush administration, the only higher-up who had front-rank military service was Sec'y of State Colin Powell, and though he eventually went along with the "slam-dunk" arguments for invading Iraq, he was also the only higher-up who dragged his feet on the issue. Other members of the Bush administration generally served in the National Guard or had other means of draft deferment. In the 60's and 70's, even though the US had many times more soldiers in Viet Nam, the National Guards were not sent, at least not in any big way. There have been those who called them "chicken-hawks."

      To be fair, Bill Clinton didn't serve in Viet Nam either, having an educational draft deferment. But though a few minor skirmishes (Balkans, Somalia) happened on his watch, he did not advocate major military action. Also to be fair, I didn't serve in Viet Nam. I was classified 1-H, had a draft card, and was in one lottery before it was all shut down. (The Clinton administration was accused of "wagging the dog" when they bombed Al Quaeda in Afghanistan, and was preparing Afghanistan invasion plans in 2000, but didn't want to saddle the incoming administration with a war as it entered office.)

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    19. Re:Its a moral issue. by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      Ooh, I had no idea he wrote further on the Starship troopers universe. I'll get with the buying right away.

      Thanks for that one.

    20. Re:Its a moral issue. by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      Actually, history pretty much neutral on the subject. Military men are not necessarily either authoritarian or pro-war. Witness Carter (he's an Annapolis graduate and served 7 years on active duty) or Colin Powell who seems to have been the only guy in the top rank of the Bush administration who tried to head off the Iraq fiasco. Not that military men are necessarily the best men to put in charge. Some -- Washington, Eisenhower -- did pretty well. Some didn't.

      All those men you speak of were elected, and the US system expects a lot more then just military service.

      In the Starship troopers he describes a seizure of power by former military (the veterans) when the world neglected them and society was in disrepair, One that went well. I'm sure the plight of the veterans was a reference to the frequent plight of returning veterans, joblessness, disenchantment, unwillingness to accept having no power, stuff like that, although the US has a pretty good record here. I wonder what his inspiration was, perhaps the Civil war? I have a doubt that such a thing would prove stable in the real world.

      Actually Washington was offered power whilst still a military man was he not? The kingship if I recall, and he turned it down. Wise fellow that one.

    21. Re:Its a moral issue. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      It *is* about laws. Computer hacking is illegal. It's also about the failure of our government to enforce those laws.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Its a moral issue. by jadm · · Score: 1

      This shouldn't be about laws, its a moral issue.
      Some might say that laws and morality are intrinsically linked (yes, some would say otherwise) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence/. I don't think it's a stretch to argue that one has its origin in the other. I leave it to wiser intellects to debate which is which.
    23. Re:Its a moral issue. by Toonol · · Score: 1

      I think he also touched on some of the same themes in Friday. It's a different universe, of course, but as I recall the future nation of California extended the franchise to everybody. Parents could vote for their infant children, kin could cast proxy votes for people in comas and even those in cryogenic suspension. He portrayed it as quite an intractable mess. It made the same point as Starship Troopers by presenting a society that was its exact opposite.

    24. Re:Its a moral issue. by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      I don't believe that George Washington was ever offered the job of monarch. In fact he discouraged those who suggested it. He resigned his commission at the end of the war a few days after presiding over the disbanding of the continental army. Back then, they did not believe in standing armies -- a concept that, if you ask me, has quite a lot to recommend it although I suppose that's not entirely practical for a nuclear power. Given the legendary inability of the Continental Congress to agree on anything (except electing Washington president) and the large number of Americans who thought that monarchs were a bad idea I doubt that the idea of making Washington king would ever have come to fruition anyway.

      ***In the Starship troopers he describes a seizure of power by former military (the veterans) when the world neglected them and society was in disrepair,***

      You're most likely right. It's been fifty years since I read the book and I only remember it at all because I thought the concept of only granting the franchise to those who were willing to do a little work for it was both interesting and entirely practical. After five decades, I still think so. Maybe we could make public service a requirement for radio and TV personalities dealing in news and current events as well. Might make them better. I doubt anything could make them worse.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    25. Re:Its a moral issue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's Sony, the almighty Yen would be more appropriate.

    26. Re:Its a moral issue. by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      If its been fifty years then might I recommend you get the audiobook version? The version I have is narrated by Lloyd James (Audible have it, as do Amazon), and it makes for a surprisingly good listen, all this talk of the book has made me put it back on the iPod for tonights walk. I also have the paperback (a nice old print), which is where I first encountered starship troopers, in my case only 27 years ago, along with Friday (which thoroughly confused me, I was only young...).

      I haven't actually studied US history, although I recently bought a 48 lecture history, which I'm slowly working through. Now I'll have to revisit the stuff on Washington, it seems I misunderstood it.

      Here in the UK there's a sort of debate (very intermittent), on whether to re-introduce national service. Other European countries have it (with university/college as an alternative), and have an extremely low juvenile crime rate. I'm very much in favor of it myself

    27. Re:Its a moral issue. by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm sorry, but I grew up a military brat. Most of the soldiers that I knew, both active and retired, were close-minded, mean-spirited dolts too damn stupid for college and in too much trouble for any other job. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the truth. The term "G.I." was all but a curse word among civilians where I grew up (around Army bases). I know I'm supposed to be all like "our brave, noble, men and women in uniform" and all that, but it's nothing like that in real life living around those people.

      It scares me enough that most of them were even allowed to vote at all, much less vote exclusively. Take a good hard look at any military town; in its tattoo parlors, bars, and strip clubs; and tell me THOSE are the people you want deciding our country's future.

      And my Dad was career military and so was my grandfather. And you had better believe me when I tell you to thank your lucky stars THEY weren't in charge of the country. These were guys who got together at VFW meetings and debated whether all reporters should be shot or just imprisoned--and MEANT it. We still can't let my Dad watch the news without him accusing the reporters of being Communists (I'm not joking, the man broke a TV set one time).

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    28. Re:Its a moral issue. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      ... that story ... starts with the premise that returning soldiers would essentially take over the world and everything would be wonderful thereafter. History has shown quite clearly that every time this occurs things go badly.

      For a counterexample see the Battle of Athens.

      Capsule summary: The returning WWII veterans came back to a totally corrupt county political machine - which oppressed them with fake traffic and other tickets with large fines. Having just fought against oppressive dictatorships in Europe they decided to fix it. First they ran their own reform slate. But when the political machine set up to jigger the ballot counting they thew them out by force of arms (a literal shooting war to recover the ballot boxes) and then counted the ballots in public.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    29. Re:Its a moral issue. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Morals are relative.

      Its one of reasons we have laws. Another reason we have them is to remove arbitrary 'undesirable' behaviors ( and people ) from society. Oh, and artificially manipulate the economy...

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    30. Re:Its a moral issue. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      "Friday" is a continuation of the novelette, "Gulf". It takes place in a post-communist USA (the Soviets took over, and eventually got kicked out).

      It's still pretty incomprehensible.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    31. Re:Its a moral issue. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Even today, one of the qualifications that many people look for in their elected leaders is previous military service.
      Do you live in Iraq or something?
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    32. Re:Its a moral issue. by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Even today, one of the qualifications that many people look for in their elected leaders is previous military service.

      Do you live in Iraq or something?


      So, I take it you didn't vote in the last presidential election for the war veteran Kerry for president? Or did you choose not to vote? Those that complain about decisions they refuse to participate in when they have the opportunity cry to deaf ears.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    33. Re:Its a moral issue. by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Oops, that should have read "the military veteran Al Gore".

      Point still stands though.

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  5. Precedent. by Raindance · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It was a push on legal norms. The recording industry has done it before, and more successfully.

    A quote from Lessig's Free Culture:

    After Vivendi purchased MP3.com, Vivendi turned around and filed a malpractice lawsuit against the lawyers who had advised it that they had a good faith claim that the service they wanted to offer would be considered legal under copyright law. This lawsuit alleged that it should have been obvious that the courts would find this behavior illegal; therefore, this lawsuit sought to punish any lawyer who had dared to suggest that the law was less restrictive than the labels demanded.


    Legal norms are not just about judicial precedent.
  6. Auto-run is evil by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course this would be a non-issue if Windows didn't automatically run software when you put a CD in the drive; this is just another reason why auto-run is an insanely bad idea.

    1. Re:Auto-run is evil by QuantumG · · Score: 1
      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Auto-run is evil by Tanman · · Score: 0

      That's why I always put the power tools, available fo-ree from microsoft.com, on any windows computer. I then completely disable autorun.

    3. Re:Auto-run is evil by RuBLed · · Score: 3, Informative

      say bye bye to autorun.inf...

      One quick trick prevents Autorun attacks

    4. Re:Auto-run is evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that Windows is inherently insecure but you are completely missing the point here. The primary problem is soulless profit hungry corporates pulling a sly one on the users and taking advantage of what was intended to be a useful feature. Can you imagine the outcry if MS decided that Windows no longer had any form of auto run capability? Things like that are what make users switch platforms.

    5. Re:Auto-run is evil by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Put a link to the CD drive in their quickstart bar and they'll shut up quickly.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    6. Re:Auto-run is evil by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Informative
      Vista prompts you before autorunning stuff

      http://www.phdcc.com/shellrun/autorun.htm

      And actually from the same link -

      In Windows NT4, 2000 and XP systems, only Administrators and Power Users can use AutoRun.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:Auto-run is evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can also find TweakUI, an addon by microsoft that allows you to disable autorun.

    8. Re:Auto-run is evil by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      In Windows NT4, 2000 and XP systems, everyone is an Administrator/Power User. Except maybe Aunt Tillie, who got her account set to "limited" by her geek nephew.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    9. Re:Auto-run is evil by z0idberg · · Score: 1

      Autoplay have fuck all to do with it.

      To play the music on your PC you have to run the player software that is on the CD.

      So if you want to play music through your PC, whether autorun runs it or you run it you end up rooted. Autorun gets you rooted quicker, but even if autorun was never invented the issue still exists.

    10. Re:Auto-run is evil by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Or someone on a domain at work. Most of the time users didn't have admin rights unless they needed them.

      Or her geek nephew, if he run as a limited user for security purposes. The idea was that you used an Admin account for installing and a User account for everything else. It was possible from NT 4 onwards, but lots of software made it hard. I actually tried it for a while with XP but gave up.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    11. Re:Auto-run is evil by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine the outcry if MS decided that Windows no longer had any form of auto run capability? Things like that are what make users switch platforms.

      No other platform that I know of has autorun, and no one seems to care, except on Windows.

      Specifically, my Linux has an autoplay-like capability -- if it sees an audio CD, it prompts me to run Amarok. If it sees a DVD, it prompts me to run Kaffeine. And if it sees a CD full of images, it might prompt me to run Gwenview. If it doesn't know what to do, it'll prompt me just to open it (to browse).

      But it absolutely will not, ever, simply run a program off the CD, even if it had to warn me first (like Vista does).

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    12. Re:Auto-run is evil by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Of course this would be a non-issue if Windows didn't automatically run software when you put a CD in the drive; this is just another reason why auto-run is an insanely bad idea.

      I don't even think XP SP2 does that by default anymore.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    13. Re:Auto-run is evil by Gnavpot · · Score: 1

      And actually from the same link -

      In Windows NT4, 2000 and XP systems, only Administrators and Power Users can use AutoRun.

      I have XP Pro. I run as a limited user on my everyday account. AutoRun works for me.
  7. I'll try one more time by zappepcs · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can we please get an Icon that has a foot and a handgun?

    1. Re:I'll try one more time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we please get an Icon that has a foot and a handgun?

      Or even one with lots of feet and a machine gun.

    2. Re:I'll try one more time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say the SONY Logo is just as good.

    3. Re:I'll try one more time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this one would suffice for this story.

    4. Re:I'll try one more time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we please get an Icon that has a foot and a handgun?

      Don't know, I'd like a bloody footprint icon instead... =)

  8. what they are really saying is... by Simonetta · · Score: 1, Redundant

    the market-based rationales that likely influenced Sony BMG's deployment of these DRM systems and reveals that even the most charitable interpretation of Sony BMG's internal strategizing demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy. After taking stock of the then-existing technological environment that both encouraged and enabled the distribution of these protection measures, the Article examines law, the third vector of influence on Sony BMG's decision to release flawed protection measures into the wild, and argues that existing doctrine in the fields of contract, intellectual property, and consumer protection law fails to adequately counter the technological and market forces that allowed a self-interested actor to inflict these harms on the public.' Yes, under 'even the most charitable interpretation' it was a lousy idea. The article also suggests some changes to the DMCA to protect consumers from this sort of intrusive, and security-undermining, technique in the future." ...the market-based rationales that likely influenced Sony BMG's deployment of these DRM systems...
      That's pretty simple. They thought that there was a vast network of 13-year-old superhackers that were going to destroy the company by sharing files of music recordings. Then some schmuck (names? anyone who knows?) in the firmware special projects department told some marketing manager that he knew how to keep 13-year-old superhackers from copying music from CDs by simply adding a little piece of code. ...demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy.
      The only security and privacy that they care about is their own. These concepts don't exist for people who are not executives in the company. Especially customers.

    ... then-existing technological environment that both encouraged and enabled the distribution of these protection measures...
      "Since we own the music on the disk that is placed into a computer CD drive, we, by the simple and obvious extension of corporate logic, thereby own the computer and all of the data inside it." If you want to become a corporate executive, you need to start thinking like one. ... flawed protection measures...
      If it keeps ordinary people from copying stupid pop songs from our CDs, then it is not flawed. If it destroys or corrupts the data on user's PC, we don't care. Serves them right as they are supposed to only be listening to CDs on a real Sony CD player. After all, we invented the CD so we can set the terms on its use. ... contract, intellectual property, and consumer protection law... ...is whatever the hell Sony's legal department says it is. And we have many, many millions of dollars, euro, UK pounds, or yen to prove it. Without the cash, talk is trash.

    ... Yes, under 'even the most charitable interpretation' it was a lousy idea...
    Next year's rootkit software will work. And the first thing that it will do is send your name and address to our lawyer's office who will prepare a standardized form charging you with theft of intellectual property (which is some illiterate junkie thug under Sony corporate contract moaning 'baby, baby, baby' over and over). Our bot software will then serve this to anyone who puts a Sony music CD into any device with internet access (unless, of course, the device is a $999 Sony model DRM-XKE CD player with hi-def 2-inch LCD screen and wireless internet access). After all, we invented the CD so we can set the terms on its use.

    suggests some changes to the DMCA ...
        The only changes that our legal department will allow the US politicians to pass will be ones that increase the criminal penalties for possession of music. This will happen when Sony completes its corporate merger with Wackenhut and CCA and completes the vast network of corporate prisons being built in distant lands. These will be needed to hold the vast number of unemployed former American college students who not only illegally listened to music, but also fell behind on their student loan payments.

  9. what their saying (reformated better) by Simonetta · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...the market-based rationales that likely influenced Sony BMG's deployment of these DRM systems...
      That's pretty simple. They thought that there was a vast network of 13-year-old superhackers that were going to destroy the company by sharing files of music recordings. Then some schmuck (names? anyone who knows?) in the firmware special projects department told some marketing manager that he knew how to keep 13-year-old superhackers from copying music from CDs by simply adding a little piece of code. ...demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy.
      The only security and privacy that they care about is their own. These concepts don't exist for people who are not executives in the company. Especially customers.

    ... then-existing technological environment that both encouraged and enabled the distribution of these protection measures...
      "Since we own the music on the disk that is placed into a computer CD drive, we, by the simple and obvious extension of corporate logic, thereby own the computer and all of the data inside it." If you want to become a corporate executive, you need to start thinking like one. ... flawed protection measures...
      If it keeps ordinary people from copying stupid pop songs from our CDs, then it is not flawed. If it destroys or corrupts the data on user's PC, we don't care. Serves them right as they are supposed to only be listening to CDs on a real Sony CD player. After all, we invented the CD so we can set the terms on its use. ... contract, intellectual property, and consumer protection law... ...is whatever the hell Sony's legal department says it is. And we have many, many millions of dollars, euro, UK pounds, or yen to prove it. Without the cash, talk is trash.

    ... Yes, under 'even the most charitable interpretation' it was a lousy idea...
    Next year's rootkit software will work. And the first thing that it will do is send your name and address to our lawyer's office who will prepare a standardized form charging you with theft of intellectual property (which is some illiterate junkie thug under Sony corporate contract moaning 'baby, baby, baby' over and over). Our bot software will then serve this to anyone who puts a Sony music CD into any device with internet access (unless, of course, the device is a $999 Sony model DRM-XKE CD player with hi-def 2-inch LCD screen and wireless internet access). After all, we invented the CD so we can set the terms on its use.

    suggests some changes to the DMCA ...
        The only changes that our legal department will allow the US politicians to pass will be ones that increase the criminal penalties for possession of music. This will happen when Sony completes its corporate merger with Wackenhut and CCA and completes the vast network of corporate prisons being built in distant lands. These will be needed to hold the vast number of unemployed former American college students who not only illegally listened to music, but also fell behind on their student loan payments.

    1. Re:what their saying (reformated better) by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only security and privacy that they care about is their own. These concepts don't exist for people who are not executives in the company. Especially customers.

      Add "copyrights" to the list. Since there are several cases showing how little the "entertainments" industry cares about other people's copyrights.

      The only changes that our legal department will allow the US politicians to pass will be ones that increase the criminal penalties for possession of music.

      Unless someone can get the changes sneaked past. e.g. something tacked onto the end on an anti-terrorism bill :)

    2. Re:what their saying (reformated better) by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 1

      You seem to be confusing Sony/BMG and Sony Corporation. It wasn't Sony that installed the rootkit on CDs it was Sony/BMG. Sony/BMG is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann with most of the decision makers (at the time) being from the BMG side. It isn't too much of a surprise really, given than BMG had such a crappy reputation previous to the merger. Sony does hold some blame being a major shareholder, but the ultimate decision was not theirs. If anything Bertelsmann holds more blame than Sony, but no one is suggesting a boycott of Random House, for example.

    3. Re:what their saying (reformated better) by Sique · · Score: 1

      The only security and privacy that they care about is their own. These concepts don't exist for people who are not executives in the company. Especially customers.

      Add "copyrights" to the list. Since there are several cases showing how little the "entertainments" industry cares about other people's copyrights. The Sony BMC Rootkit was actually one of those examples. First4Internet used GPLed code and didn't publish the source for their product, and neither did Sony BMC which distributed First4Internet's modifications.

      So Sony BMC was infringing on someone else's copyright there.
      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  10. Left hand, meet right hand by QuantumFTL · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, due to scaling problems, any sufficiently large and diverse corporation will have components that exhibit behavior that are detrimental to other components, or even the whole. While this can be reduced and discouraged, I do not believe it can be completely solved - something will always manage to slip its way through the cracks.

    Sony has a huge image problem (especially among the geek elite) due to this effect, and due to the fact that its goals do not seem to align with the geeks of Slashdot's dream of free content for all. Maybe better laws, regulation, and consumer awareness will provide the sticks and carrots necessary to help guide this behavior to constructive not destructive purposes. If that happens, I'd suggest investing heavily in porcine aviation stocks, however.

    1. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One quick check of your post history:

      "I hate the PS3 (though I love the cell, but not for gaming, because that's too complicated for most game programmers to handle). I love my XBox 360 and Wii"

      As someone who has worked on almost every console going back to the Genesis days let me say for the rest of us console engineers in saying to you:

      Go fuck yourself. Your stupidity is nauseating.

      And what the hell? 'geek elite'???

    2. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by otomo_1001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And now meet what I like to call handcuffs.

      An easy solution to this problem, and it would only take a few instances, would be to seize all assets of the company in question and begin prosecution. If corporations are damn near treated like real humans, then let them see the other side of the coin. Make every failure in process hurt them where it matters, I guarantee we won't have this happen again. Or we end up with less corporations willing to "risk" product release in the US.

      As it stands companies can seemingly get away with whatever they want to protect their business model.

    3. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      If that happens, I'd suggest investing heavily in porcine aviation stocks, however.

      On the Wall Street Wolf scale, Sony is not the worst investment you could make.

      --
      What?
    4. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by QuantumFTL · · Score: 1

      As someone who has worked on magnetohydrodynamic simulations on a massively parallel cluster (#50 supercomputer in the world, at the time), I can say that the Cell architecture is not well supported by current programming language paradigms. And, if you look at the current crop of PS3 games, it's clear that they are not living up to the potential of the hardware - with all of it's power it should blow away the 360, and yet it does not.

      That's not why I hate the PS3. It's just that, well, I like to have fun playing games. I can do that on my 360 (I have no love for MS, but the 360 is absolutely fun w/ the current crop of games, as long as the RRoDs don't come your way), and I can do that on my Wii, and I can do that on my PS2.

      There's just nothing compelling about a PS3, and I think part of it is because Sony didn't take adequate steps to make things work well for game developers. The Cell architecture is ambitious, and trying to adequately take advantage of that in an outdated programming language like C is pretty ridiculous - it's clear that we need languages that have built-in constructs that directly support parallelism (similar to High Performance Fortran, Parallel Haskell, etc).

      Anyways, I take whatever Anonymous Cowards say with a grain of salt, but seriously - if you're offended that my observations that video game programmers are not trained to think in ways that lend themselves to this kind of parallelism, I'm sorry. However, having played many video games, I can attest to the fact that they are often unstable, buggy and or otherwise poorly constructed - game publishershave no economic motivation to put the time, money, and human resources into making bulletproof code. And I'm sorry, but if you're good enough to push something like the Cell to its limits, you're probably doing something a little more serious with your time than programming video games, the market tends to work that way. It's just that damn hard of a problem.

    5. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 1

      Sony/BMG and Sony are not the same. Sony/BMG is a separate entity that is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann, with former Bertelsmann executives (at the time) in control of the top positions in the company. Unfortunately, Sony (proper) let them use the Sony name, probably for branding reasons. So all of the silly moves by Sony/BMG like the rootkit, are the responsibility of former BMG execs.

    6. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Only on the Internet could a preference for one game console architecture bring responses like that.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by philipgar · · Score: 1

      I think someone should be in handcuffs over this. At least a much more sever punishment. i don't agree that all of Sony should be split up or bankrupted over this, but the people who let this through at the top should have some serious punishments. I know if I installed rootkits on Sony's computers, and then logged remotely into them, and got caught, I'd likely be charged with computer crimes (or whatever the proper term is), and sent to jail for a couple years. Why if a major company does the same thing to millions of people, can they walk away paying a small fee that works out to a few dollars per affected CD. At the bare minimum, the punishment should make a major financial impact. If they can get settlements valuing a song at a couple hundred or thousand dollars per copyright infringement (i know these are unrelated cases, but the ideas are similar), then it's logical that they should be able to pay a couple hundred or thousand dollars per rootkit that they installed. Of course, in the current system this would never happen.

      Phil

    8. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Well, the responsibility of some former BMG execs, and Sony.

      Because, as you say, Sony owns 50% of the company. That's a significant stake, enough for Sony, if it had any scruples at all, to force changes. It's rampant apologism to claim that Sony has no responsibility because it "only" owns 50% of the offending company.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    9. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by ExecutorElassus · · Score: 1

      Actually, the nice point that the article makes is that this action DID significantly (and by significantly, I merely mean nonzero, not world-altering) hurt Sony/BMG: sales of albums known to contain the rootkit plummeted, the company lost millions in a recall and destruction action, and the entire industry shifted away from the distribution method they were trying to implement, to the point of Apple and EMI advocating ditching DRM altogether.

      What's interesting here is that the lawyers follow a process that Barbara Tuchman documented really nicely in The March of Folly: the process of an organization to act - and continue acting - directly contrary to its own interests, in spite of prevailing evidence that such action was harmful. Sony/BMG got pretty well hammered for this, but they could have avoided the whole mess if they hadn't stonewalled at the beginning, made it worse midway, or - best of all - never gone through with a policy without doing due diligence that was clearly necessary.

    10. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by settrans · · Score: 1

      Your post advocates a

      ( ) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based (X) vigilante

      approach to fighting DRM. Your idea will not work in today's America. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)

      ( ) Record companies will twist it into a pro-DRM marketing campaign
      ( ) Legitimate music fans would be affected
      ( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
      (X) It is defenseless against RIAA lawyers
      ( ) It will stop DRM for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
      ( ) Ordinary music listeners will not put up with it
      ( ) Technology doesn't work that way
      (X) The government doesn't work that way
      ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
      (X) The police will not put up with it
      ( ) Requires too much cooperation from RIAA labels
      (X) Your solution goes against the principles of corporate American culture
      ( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
      ( ) Many musicians cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential labels
      ( ) RIAA labels don't care about whiny Slashdot nerds
      (X) Big American conglomerates would lobby against it
      ( ) It is trivial to circumvent technologically

      Specifically, your plan fails to account for

      ( ) Bittorrent
      (X) Laws expressly prohibiting it
      ( ) Russian pirates and/or TPB
      ( ) Asshats
      ( ) Jurisdictional problems
      ( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
      ( ) iTunes
      ( ) The general public hesistation to install open-source media players
      (X) The steadfast unaccountability and moral vacuum of the typical RIAA label CEO
      ( ) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes
      (X) The average person doesn't know or care about rootkits
      ( ) DMCA
      ( ) Richard Stallman
      ( ) Steve Jobs
      (X) Technically illiterate politicians
      ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with record labels
      ( ) Dishonesty on the part of RIAA labels themselves
      ( ) CowboyNeal's extensive WMA collection

      Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

      (X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
      ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
      ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
      house down!

      --
      "When I wake up in the morning I piss cryptographic excellence." - Bruce Schneier
  11. Law by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The article also suggests some changes to the DMCA to protect consumers from this sort of intrusive, and security-undermining, technique in the future."

    How about this, when an industry pushes legislative half assed measures and gets them passed in to law, they forfeit normal protections afforded every other group out there.

    In this case DMCA law prohibits the consumer from doing all sorts of things, in an effort to protect a particular industry. Since Sony installed, without permission, software that effectively broke computers, they'd held to a HIGHER standard than any other organization.

    In this case the law should have revoked the corporate charter surrendered all assets to the government. Since the Corporation is a "legal" entity, the same as a person, the government should treat it exactly like a person caught doing the same thing.

    My $.02

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:Law by Hatta · · Score: 1

      We shouldn't need another law in this case. We already have laws against computer hacking. If any individual had done what Sony did, they would have gone to jail for a long, long time. Yet Sony doesn't even get a slap on the wrist.

      What we really need is a way to prevent this kind of selective enforcement of the law. Perhaps the failure of the government to prosecute a clear cut case of computer hacking should serve as a defense in future cases of computer hacking. If Sony can get away with putting a trojan on millions of computers, then under "equal protection" everyone is entitled to the same leniency.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  12. Oops, forgot about the laziness of slashdotters by Tanman · · Score: 1, Informative

    Here's a link:

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/default.mspx

    The specific one you want is TweakUI for your OS.

  13. Legal solution? by Kohath · · Score: 1

    Why is a legal solution needed? Clearly, the whole incident worked out very badly for Sony-BMG. Any company can see this example and determine that this kind of software should not be used.

    I don't hit my hand with a hammer, even though no law that restrains me from doing it. Is there a role for government in keeping folks from hitting their hand with a hammer?

    1. Re:Legal solution? by bubbl07 · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's an entirely accurate analogy. The Sony Rootkit fiasco also affected everyone that bought their products. Perhaps this situation is more akin to a pharmaceutical company not divulging all the side effects of a pill to the FCC/DEA and then putting it out to market. In that situation, of course there should be some sort of intervention.

      Actually, that's still a pretty bad analogy, but you get the point. I'm not saying that this "legal analysis" isn't without its merits, just that you can't argue that by likening it to something not like it at all.

    2. Re:Legal solution? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, what with them filing for bankruptcy and pretty much giving stuff away just to get some cash flow as the general public decided to completely boycott...

      Oh, wait, that's not what happened at all. Here's what happened - outside of a few geeks and a couple of other unlucky folks nobody cared. And even of those that did care, only a few geeks still do. Everyone else either didn't hear about it, didn't understand it, didn't care about it, or forgot. That's the way of the world.

    3. Re:Legal solution? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's an entirely accurate analogy.

      There's no such thing as an entirely accurate analogy.

      But the point is that Sony-BMG wishes they'd never used that software. They won't do it again. No one who knows about the situation would ever do it again. Isn't that the desired result?

      So, since the desired result is already achieved without a new "legal solution", why do we need a new "legal solution"?

    4. Re:Legal solution? by Kohath · · Score: 1
      Yeah, what with them filing for bankruptcy and pretty much giving stuff away just to get some cash flow as the general public decided to completely boycott...

      So every last person who worked for Sony BMG should have lost their job? And every investor in Sony BMG should have lost their entire investment?

      You must believe in the death penalty for every crime then too.

      ...outside of a few geeks and a couple of other unlucky folks nobody cared...

      It seems like most people cared in approximate proportion to the amount of damage caused -- not much. And some people cared because they hate various people or entities for whatever reason and they want their chosen enemies destroyed. You seem to be in the second group.

      I guess I understand the purpose of a "legal solution" if your goal is to destroy your enemies using government power. I'm not sure why everyone else needs to empower a few folks who are motivated by vindictiveness though. In fact, it seems unwise.

    5. Re:Legal solution? by PolyDwarf · · Score: 1

      It seems like most people cared in approximate proportion to the amount of damage caused -- not much. And some people cared because they hate various people or entities for whatever reason and they want their chosen enemies destroyed. You seem to be in the second group.

      So, with that logic, no personal crime should have punishment, because the vast majority of people don't care about it. Why would I care if someone's car got carjacked in Minneapolis, when I'm in Phoenix?

      And yet, there are punishments for those crimes, despite me not caring. And those punishments are sometimes strict enough to cause that person to not do it again. I don't see that happening with *any* corporation. Sony did not get punished. They should have gotten based on the *potential* harm. This was not a "crime of passion", this was cold and pre-meditated.

    6. Re:Legal solution? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Why would I care if someone's car got carjacked in Minneapolis, when I'm in Phoenix?

      Why should you? What makes it any of your business? I'm sure the folks in Minneapolis can take care of their own problems without your input. Not everything is about you.

      And those punishments are sometimes strict enough to cause that person to not do it again.

      In this case, it was. There's no benefit in doing this again. There was no benefit in doing it the first time. And there are some hefty consequences. So no one will do it again.

      Aside from a pure desire to cause harm to enemies -- apparently "corporations" in this case -- there's no problem solved by the "legal solutions" that are being talked about.

    7. Re:Legal solution? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      Any company can see this example and determine that this kind of software should not be used.

      By that rationale, Microsoft should have learned a lot from IBM, and everyone who insists Apple should license their OS should have learned from...well, Apple doing just that in the mid 90's.

      Sadly, the urge to reinvent the wheel is far more common than the good sense to avoid being run over.

      I don't hit my hand with a hammer, even though no law that restrains me from doing it.

      There is, it's called Og's law (after the caveman who invented the hammer and the finger-splint, in that order), and it goes like this: "Hand hurts when hit". And like the law of gravity it applies whether it's codified or not, so setting it in legislation is redundant. The negative impact (pardon the pun) of hitting your hand with a hammer is immediately obvious; even if you've never done it before, you probably have enough experience of the world to know that at the intersection of hard and squishy is pain. You can probably also extend that: hitting someone else with a hammer will most likely hurt them, too. Whether you care is another matter entirely.

      Which nicely segues to Sony. There have been numerous articles on /. about how management roles favour the psychopathic, so we're probably* talking about people who tend to disregard the negative effects their actions have on others and over estimate the value of their own "good" ideas. Combine that with a lack of understanding of what a rootkit actually is, whether it has any function besides what they want, and how hard is it to repair any damage ("hey, I get malware all the time. It only takes a two minute call to IT to get it fixed, how serious can it be?"), and you've got the perfect hot house for repeated bone-headed decisions. I think Sony's history speaks for itself on that score.

      That brings me to the error of thinking of a company as a sentient organism that learns from mistakes. Individuals learn, but in companies individuals come and go, so there's a constant turn over of knowledge and experience (and if you're expecting empathy I'd really like to help you but it's against policy). Laws, relatively speaking, are much more static and extend beyond the culture of one corporation, so new arrivals are more likely to be aware of them. Of course corporations flout laws, but burglary isn't legal simply because a lock won't stop a determined thief.

      The legal solutions mentioned in the abstract are, IMO, quite sound (even without the rootkit fiasco). From the paper:

      Until average users are better equipped with intuitive tools and concise, compelling information describing relevant risks and benefits, they will be unable to manage the security of their machines. And unless users can take control of their security, we will be forced to choose between an increasingly insecure networked environment and one with diminished adherence to the end-to-end principle as security management migrates from the desktop towards the center of the network. ...[snip]....But the availability of information exposing these threats alone is insufficient. Both technology and law have a role to play in shaping usable security and privacy solutions. Technology can help to inform users and enforce their preferences to the extent those preferences can be accurately expressed and their violation detected. Users need the law to force the honest disclosure of terms and risks, and to protect them against over-reaching license terms. And, in some rare circumstances, the law must prohibit certain risks that we cannot afford for users to accept in highly networked environments, regardless of their willingness.

      So the proposed legal solutions are (1) relaxing the DMCA to allow tools that can also be used for security research, (2) forcing disclosure of the exact nature of software, and (3) framing laws that allow prosecution of a company whose software causes harm even when the immediate user is either too ignorant or apathetic to do anything about it, but other users are also affected by way of sharing a common network. Is there a problem with those suggestions I've missed?

      *OK, it's Sony Music, so there's no "probably" about it.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    8. Re:Legal solution? by PolyDwarf · · Score: 1

      I didn't really propose any legal solutions. I just bemoaned the fact that Sony was able to get away without any consequences. To my mind, market forces are not a consequence.

      Their crime : They put a rootkit on many computers and were caught
      Their legal punishment : ???

      I can expect that, if I were to ever start installing rootkits on computers and was caught, that I would escape any government punishment? Of course not, I'd be in jail until the death of the universe.

      Why aren't coroporations under the same punishment? If they commit a crime, they are sent to "prison" (IE, their corporate business license yanked) for however long I would be sent to prison. I don't really give a fig about the investors or the employees; the corporation committed a crime, the corporation should be punished.

      I'm not anti-corporation. I'm just not pro-corporations-can-do-whatever-they-want. I just feel corporations should have the same punishment I do if they're going to be considered almost-a-person under the law.

  14. What is this morality you speak of? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    Most companies, like most people, will take what they can. Only the law limits what most companies/people would take. Is it morally right that some have so much, and continue to take, while some have so little and seem to have less each day? It should not be like that, but it is.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:What is this morality you speak of? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Ooooh, now you're going to hear from the libertarians or what they call themselves these days that preach taking as much as you can and crushing as many people as possible is the ideal market because when only the strongest survive there will be some sort of equilibrium.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  15. Consumer protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we provide for corporations what we do not guarantee for ourselves? If we who starve and suffer must earn our keep, why can't a corporation thrive or fail without government intervention?

  16. (^_^) by Smordnys+s'regrepsA · · Score: 1

    Glad to see
    I"M not
    the only one who
    forgetsto
    hit the "Preview" button!

    --
    Just -1, Troll talking to another.
  17. boo ray by waraey · · Score: 1

    and despite the debacle, people still want Blue Ray to win the Hi-def war.

    1. Re:boo ray by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      So far as I can tell, the only two groups I've seen really pushing Blu-ray who aren't in the industry (ie "ordinary people") are people who bought PlayStation 3s, and a small minority of Microsoft haters (and by "small minority" I mean "some", not "all Microsoft haters" let alone "all Microsoft critics".)

      Blu-ray offers little to end consumers over HD-DVD beyond the ability to swap discs less if they're buying compilations of TV shows. It doesn't support managed copy, it uses mandatory copy-prevention preventing small independent publishers from publishing their own discs, the copy prevention technology is itself poorly implemented resulting in a significant number of players rejecting new discs, and it's more expensive to press the discs (apparently.) But, right now, we don't have a choice (I mean, as in, we don't have one. It's not "You can either have BR or HDDVD", it's "You have to wait, because there's a 50% chance that whatever you buy will be withdrawn within the next year or two and it's impossible to tell which. Frankly, if you buy now you have more money than sense.") so right now, Blu-ray's backers are somewhat irrelevant.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  18. I don't quite buy it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I know Sony acted like a jackass, but it was more ignorance than malice. They didn't write the rootkit, they bought it from somebody else. And if they knew what a rootkit was, the people who wrote it didn't tell Sony it was a rootkit, and likely did not consider it to be a rootkit. They advertise the software as preventing users from making copies, and I'm guessing Sony considered the software on that criterion alone.

    Much like the average sysadmin doesn't consider the privacy implications of leaving a backup tape in a car, the average music exec doesn't consider the privacy implications of some piece of copy protection software.

    My point is that Sony didn't know what they were doing, nor were they competant enough to realize that they didn't know what they were doing.

    dom

    1. Re:I don't quite buy it by diablillo · · Score: 1

      It's true that they didn't write the rootkit code, but it's silly to think that nobody in Sony's production line knew about it. I really don't think that a company the size of Sony would sell something and not really know whats in it. They were certainly not all evil, but they were not all innocent by ignorance.

      Sony's Pictures Entertainment Senior VP Steve Heckler said it best: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/08/23/we_will_block_napster/
      "The [music] industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams," Heckler said. "It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what."
      "Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user. We will firewall Napster at source - we will block it at your cable company, we will block it at your phone company, we will block it at your [ISP]. We will firewall it at your PC."


      Seems to me that they were actually pursuing something that would do exactly what the rootkit did.

    2. Re:I don't quite buy it by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Also sony are not the only ones. The DVD Mr and Mrs Smith we got from the library here in Vienna (1 Euro for 2 weeks..) had a warning on it not to use it on a pc because it installs a virus.

      Its not just sony. Its all of them and sony just got caught.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    3. Re:I don't quite buy it by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      My point is that Sony didn't know what they were doing, nor were they competant enough to realize that they didn't know what they were doing.

      Oh please. Sony designs laptop computers and they crippled the OS and firmware to deter file sharing. They are more than competent enough to knwo what they were deploying in the field, thank you very much.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
  19. Who really should we be mad at? by anubi · · Score: 1
    I was highly pissed at Sony for doing this.

    But I am more pissed at Microsoft.

    This is NOT supposed to happen - I would allow them a foulup of this magnitude only on the virgin release of WIN95.

    Let's face it, neither people nor businesses are unconditionally honest. I believe the proper lawyerspeak for "dishonesty" is "realistic".

    People will violate copyright and patent if they feel they can get away with it.

    Business will write loans that nobody can pay, will insert phrases like "we reserve the right to make any change at any time to this contract" in their written contracts, and sucker customers will sign it anyway.

    Both pranker/hackers and businessmen *will* write hostile code.

    I am not nearly so mad at Sony for doing this as I am at Microsoft for having code that lacks resilence against such attacks. Even as much as simple integrity checking of core files would isolate tampering of those files.

    This could be as easy as when the customer boots from his purchased legit installation CD and asks it directly to verify his OS. There is no way any hacker could compromise the code on a stamped CD. At least the computer owner would know his computer is telling him the truth over which processes and threads are running, and know the registry keys are being honestly reported.

    How a business claims "trustworthy computing" and such a thing happens makes me think of the banking industry repackaging all those toxic loans, then having some ratings agency stamp them with a high rating, then sell it all off to corporate pension managers - with every party in the whole sorry chain shielded by "hold harmless" law from the repercussions of their negligence.

    All this "plays for sure" businesstalk rings of Circuit City Divx. Its marketing headhock which the technically illiterate ( even if they are business savvy; ) falls for over and over again. I realize a business appears to have much lower needs of system security than I feel is prudent - hence their acceptance of stuff that requires other companies products to crutch it up before it works. It seems to me that despite all the hoopla, we still have basically lousy stuff that hasn't seen any improvement since WIN98.

    Linux seems to be the answer, as I know had this exploit been used on Linux, there would have immediately been free and open discussion of what happened and how to make damn sure it doesn't happen again. I can not count on that kind of support on proprietary systems, whose support is whatever the vendor sees fit to support - with any other help facing legal liability for even trying to help.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    1. Re:Who really should we be mad at? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      It installed a device driver. Once that's done no OS prevention or design would stop them doing what they wanted.

      The same would happen in Linux if they had a CDROM and some idiot forgot to mount the drive containing the install binary nosuid.

    2. Re:Who really should we be mad at? by anubi · · Score: 1
      At least I know a secure and resilent core OS will tell me this driver exists.

      Once its public knowledge what to look for and how to remove it, cleaning up the mess should be trivial.

      Like the dog that pees in the kitchen, we won't let it in there again.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  20. Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The rootkit was put on those CDs by Sony/BMG, which is a separate entity that is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann (BMG stands for Bertelsmann Music Group). Furthermore, the people at the top, who make all of the important decisions are all from the BMG side. So, if either company is more to blame, it is Bertelsmann. Does this mean you should boycott Bertelsmann? It does seem a bit silly to boycott Random House (major book publisher and Bertelsmann subsidiary) over what happened to some music CDs, and yet that is what some are doing w.r.t. Sony Vaio, Sony cameras, etc. My suggestion would be to boycott the product that Sony/BMG puts out-their music CDs.

    1. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by AlXtreme · · Score: 1

      It does seem a bit silly to boycott Random House (major book publisher and Bertelsmann subsidiary) over what happened to some music CDs

      Why does that seem silly? I say boycott both Sony and Bertelsmann, and all their subsidiaries. Give a clear signal to those in charge that you don't want to put up with BS like this: vote with your money and shop somewhere else.
      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by CoolGopher · · Score: 1

      Does this mean you should boycott Bertelsmann? It does seem a bit silly to boycott Random House (major book publisher and Bertelsmann subsidiary) over what happened to some music CDs, and yet that is what some are doing w.r.t. Sony Vaio, Sony cameras, etc.


      Or maybe that's just what's needed. A bit of collateral damage to cause corporations to tell other corporations to lay off the bad moves. Because so far just having a bunch of customers doing it hasn't worked.

    3. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by line-bundle · · Score: 1

      The rootkit was put on those CDs by Sony/BMG, which is a separate entity that is 50/50 owned by Sony and Bertelsmann (BMG stands for Bertelsmann Music Group).



      I was going to mod you down, but here goes.


      Even though Sony/BMG is a separate entity it still has the Sony name. It's in their to make sure their name does not get sullied. It's not our job to find out exactly which part belongs to whom.


      Also why do corporations not investigate which aspect of a person failed to pay their credit card bill. I'm talking about universal default here (not the best example though). They don't care. As long as your name appears somewhere you are in trouble

    4. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by Random_Goblin · · Score: 1

      It's in their to make sure their name does not get sullied.
      Your post lacks interest
    5. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by Zarniwoot · · Score: 1

      A company like Sony use a huge amount of effort to build a common brand name for all its products. It's an advantage to them when they make a great product. Why shouldn't it be a disadvantage when they make a bad product? Fonys upper management has the final responsibility for all their products.

    6. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by infonography · · Score: 1

      Unlikely, they don't really care what you/me/anybody thinks today, they're about control the media content and will get around to caging you into your conceptual structures later. If you look over the catalog of SonyBMG you will see the most of the soundtracks and American artists are part of the original Sony catalog dovetailed into their movie side and from Sony buying up record labels. On the other side BMG is skewed toward Classical and much of the European market. Random House is more then just books, they have an large IT services wing. Against them then look at such names as

      MSNBC [wonder who is the MS in MSNBC?]
      AOL TIME Warner
      Disney-ABC Domestic Television

      There are so many tentacles going about that who knows who owns what anymore. The whole point is about control of content. Sony just lacks the fascist trappings and agenda of Rupert Murdoch and FOX. It's not even a conspiracy merely what seems the most logical business practice of cornering a market. Ideas as a commercial product. For further instruction read Marshall McLuhan

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    7. Re:Remember Sony/BMG and Sony Corp aren't the same by pcgc1xn · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that does kindof make sense. I would be surprised if the head honchos in the TV division even knew about, let alone supported the idea, so why punish them?

      The reason is that despite what people say, companies have a culture. And this company is saying "we want to lock down the use of this media so we can extract the maximum posible revenue from consumers by requiring them to repurchase content, and we can do whatever we like to their property in this aim" This sort of thing does flow across division boundaries. You don't have one division acting like utter scum while all the others are helping little old ladies across the street.

      Also, in any big company, there are a range of people. It is possible that there is one scumbag who decided it was a good idea and pushed it out while all of the good guys were not looking. In that case, when the good guys find out, there will be a public hanging and a good deal of making things better, because they know that they have betrayed trust. Scumbags on the other hand will just close ranks and deny everything.

      If Sony owns 50% of SonyBMG, they have a lot of sway about what goes on there. If top Sony exec says "we should do this", then BMG will have to do a lot of work to do the opposite. Sony is therefore culpable for the actions of SonyBMG.

      The next problem is when you boycott a media provider you are also boycotting the media producer. If you like Band X, then you have two choices, buy Sony AND Band X, or neither. The Sony business model is such that a few people avoiding their favorite band will not cost Sony a great deal, but will hit the band relatively more. Big ticket items on the other hand...

      So, guess what Sony, when I was looking for a new HDTV this weekend, you weren't on the list of brands I would look at, because of this.

      Oh yeah, and I am now looking for a new DVD player as well. Still a bit up in the air about formats, but guess which side I am leaning towards? Though that one has a little to do with past successes (beta, memorystick, minidisc, firewire...) as well.

      I have had Sony stuff before, and have been really impressed (nothing came close to my Vaio), so I think it is pretty sad, but they acted like scum so deserve what they get. And they aren't getting my cash.

  21. Downfall by joaommp · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or is Sony losing it? It seems that Sony has been making a lot of really bad mistakes and it is heading freefall. On the way to becoming a shadow of the former self?

    1. Re:Downfall by TheeBlueRoom · · Score: 1

      I would agree, Sony was once a great company, I am now Sony free, so the new plasma will not be Sony, the HD video camera will not be Sony, The music I buy will not be Sony... Sony you are no longer welcome in my wallet

      --
      I wish I was clever!
    2. Re:Downfall by joaommp · · Score: 1

      My Mom has bought a Vaio to my brother and regretted it to the point of being in the process of engaging a lawsuit agains Sony. It has already written a letter to Sony Japan.

  22. Re:Islam will bring morality back to Europe by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Islam certainly teaches a system of morality. Whether it is the one you want taught is another matter.

    http://humanists.net/alisina/islamic_morality.htm

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  23. Re:Islam will bring morality back to Europe by arivanov · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Read my post again. The bit about "prism of religion". In fact Islam and the Evangelicals was exactly what I meant there. Sigh...

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  24. Not so much, IF... by milsoRgen · · Score: 1

    If they added an autorun that worked in a restricted mode it wouldn't be to bad. Perhaps a simple hyper linked document type of application, something very specific and limited. As all I seem to recall autorun being good for is launch menus for games to run/install.

    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
  25. Re:Islam will bring morality back to Europe by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    I wasn't responding to your post, I replied to this one

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390868&cid=21723276

    I don't disagree with this post

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390868&cid=21723180

    In fact I'm sure Mr. Rasczak would explain the morality of dealing with alien enemies of the State, especially ones that are numerous but low tech and and rely on suicide attacks and indiscriminately targetting civillians ;-)

    "Some say US foreign policy has encouraged militancy in the Middle East and a live and let live policy would have been preferable"
    "I'm from New York and I say KILL EM ALL!"

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  26. An excellent article ! by golodh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This article really was a pleasure to read (although it took me most of a day).

    Not just because of the conclusions ("Part III examines potential market-based rationales that influenced Sony BMG's deployment of these DRM systems and reveals that even the most charitable interpretation of Sony BMG's internal strategizing demonstrates a failure to adequately value security and privacy.") but also because of the rant-free and very lucid and illuminating analysis of the factors involved.

    To me, the best part was: "After taking stock of the then-existing technological environment that both encouraged and enabled the distribution of these protection measures in Part IV, we examine law, the third vector of influence on Sony BMG's decision to release flawed protection measures into the wild, in Part V. We argue that existing doctrine in the fields of contract, intellectual property, and consumer protection law fails to adequately counter the technological and market forces that allowed a self-interested actor to inflict such harms on the public.".

    Those who have hopes for political action to amend the current crop of laws may be interested to read: "Finally in Part VI, we present two recommendations aimed at reducing the likelihood of companies deploying protection measures with known security vulnerabilities in the consumer marketplace. First, we suggest that Congress should alter the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) by creating permanent exemptions from its anti-circumvention and anti trafficking provisions in order to enable security research and the dissemination of tools to remove harmful protection measures. Second, we offer promising ways to leverage insights from the field of human computer interaction security (HCI-Sec) to develop a stronger framework for user control over the security and privacy aspects of computers."

  27. Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Even today, one of the qualifications that many people look for in their elected leaders is previous military service."

    "Even today, one of the qualifications that many people IN THE USA look for in their elected leaders is previous military service."

    The US has a weird, hyper-patriotic society that a lot of Europeans find bizarre, brainwashing and militaristic.

    And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

    1. Re:Minor correction by BlueStrat · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The US has a weird, hyper-patriotic society that a lot of Europeans find bizarre, brainwashing and militaristic.

      It's the USAs' military might that saved Europe in WW1 and WW2, and recently through NATO that allows much of Europe to eschew a large military for protection and kept them from becoming another Soviet satellite nation or becoming another Chinese Tibet.

      You're welcome.

      And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

      Doesn't have to be military, as in Heinleins' world it was simply public service, of which the military was one branch. Plus, we're talking theoretically about a science fiction novel. Nobody is taking anything away from anyone. Chill!

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    2. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1, Troll

      "It's the USAs' military might that saved Europe in WW1 and WW2"

      That's a subject for debate, not proclamation, as is the rest of your nonsense about soviet satellites. Plus, given the Iraqi mess and the despicable things your country asks of its allies, I'm willing to say we don't want your sort of protection. And we don't need it.

      "Plus, we're talking theoretically about a science fiction novel."

      And people are proposing it as a good model and a natural one. It's not, it's only in the US that the military are seen as some sort of gods. To much the rest of the world they are brave people but that doesn't necessarily make them smart or right about anything.

    3. Re:Minor correction by mangu · · Score: 1

      And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live?

      If you do not feel ready to stand up to the bullies, then what are you complaining about? Either *you* decide how you get to live or someone else will. Ethics will only survive if there are enough people ready to defend basic principles, even by force if necessary.


      The simple fact is that if you are not ready to fight for your rights you cannot complain when somebody takes them away. Unfortunately, people like Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Saddam exist. It's up to you to choose whether you want to be a Neville Chamberlain or a Churchill.

    4. Re:Minor correction by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It's the USAs' military might that saved Europe in WW1 and WW2"

      That's a subject for debate, not proclamation...


      I think Britain, France and Italy might might disagree. Without the USA's support, Britain would have been invaded by the Nazis. France and Italy were liberated.

      And people are proposing it as a good model and a natural one. It's not, it's only in the US that the military are seen as some sort of gods.

      I don't know whose post you're responding to here. I said nothing about anyone being gods nor does anyone I know in the USA think of the military in that way or even close. Nor was I seriously proposing the Starship Troopers society as an actual model. Just the un-arguable fact that a weak military invites attack from others that have expansionist aims.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    5. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Ah, right, so if I don't join the military I'm not interested in my rights. Gotcha.

      Because I couldn't possibly care about my right to choose my own battles, rather than become the tool of a.... tool like George Bush.

      No, I will not fight for the state. The state will never be aligned with every individual and the individual should never be subsumed into the state if he wants a say.

    6. Re:Minor correction by mckyj57 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "Even today, one of the qualifications that many people look for in their elected leaders is previous military service."

      "Even today, one of the qualifications that many people IN THE USA look for in their elected leaders is previous military service."

      The US has a weird, hyper-patriotic society that a lot of Europeans find bizarre, brainwashing and militaristic.


      Thereby showing that you have zero understanding of history. Europe has had the hyper-patriotic societies that led the world to war.

      And not only do you have zero understanding of history, you don't even know what the words "hyper" and "patriotic" mean. If a nation were hyper-patriotic, it would not tolerate dissent. Oh yes, I forgot. You are European and lump everyone in the U.S. together as one amorphous blob. You probably believe the U.S. is a police state that represses free speech or something.

      Europeans are so often tiresome. So many believe they are superior, but in trying to demonstrate it show how lacking they are.

    7. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Europe has had the hyper-patriotic societies that led the world to war."

      Why do you think that looking at the US concerns us so?

      "you don't even know what the words "hyper" and "patriotic" mean."

      Hmmm, lets look at some definitions. "Hyper" - prefix meaning excessive, above, or beyond, eg, hyperactive.
      "Patriotic" - Inspired by love for you country.

      So, hyper-patriotic would be "excessively inspired by love for your country", which is exactly what I meant. The flag worship, the daily pledge recitations, the "GAWD BLESS AMERICA!", the reverence for the military. All very prominent parts of US culture.

      "If a nation were hyper-patriotic, it would not tolerate dissent."

      That would depend exactly _how_ excessive the patriotism was. As it is now there seems to be a large proportion of US society that refuses to question the government and a large portion that, as long as they're told there's a crisis on, will go along with any sort of behaviour (internment, torture) simply because it's the good ol' US of A doing it. And doing it to "bad" people who want to hurt america.

      It's excessive enough that the phrase "anti-american" exists and is slung around. Maybe it just doesn't have the same asonance, but nobody says "anti-British" or "anti-French" as far as I know.

      That is more than enough to qualify as excessively patriotic to many people.

      "You are European and lump everyone in the U.S. together as one amorphous blob."

      Nope, just looking at the overall impression of the society. Any society is made of individuals, yet countries can still have a character.

      "You probably believe the U.S. is a police state that represses free speech or something."

      No, but I think it has some weird soldier and flag worship issues.

      "Europeans are so often tiresome. So many believe they are superior, but in trying to demonstrate it show how lacking they are."

      Says the guy who clearly has no idea of the meaning of the words hyper and patriotic, which perfectly fit my original usage. By the way - nowhere did I claim that my society was superior (go on, show me where I did that, can't can you), just that yours isn't perfect and that the assumptions of the original poster (that people naturally choose military leadership) are not necessarily correct outside of the US.

    8. Re:Minor correction by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

      You haven't read the book, have you? The rationale is explained there.

      First, military service is not the only way of getting a franchise, there are other ways, although military service would be the most common way. People incapable of fighting would get their chance too.

      The idea is that in order to be a citizen you need to risk your life defending your species. The usual way is fighting, but might be testing drugs, or equipment, or exploration, etc. The rationale behind that is people willing to risk their life for others would value the well being of society above theirs, so they would be great leaders that protect society instead of filling their own pockets with cash or abusing their power for their own benefit.
    9. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "The rationale behind that is people willing to risk their life for others would value the well being of society above theirs, so they would be great leaders that protect society instead of filling their own pockets with cash or abusing their power for their own benefit."

      Yes, makes perfect sense.

      Did you know Robert Mugabe was a military hero in Zimbabwe before turning into today's repressive dictator?
      And that many dictators come from military backgrounds and are propped up by military support?

      Mr Heinlein had some fine, but flawed ideas. As I said in another post - what about those of us who do not wish to fight the battles of others?

    10. Re:Minor correction by coolGuyZak · · Score: 1

      And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

      In theory, democratic legitimacy grants those citizens the authority to prompt everyone for military service. In the case of the US, our constitution would need to be rewritten to award citizenship after service, but nothing prevents forced participation in the military (save public opinion).

      I also share he viewpoint that service in the public sphere, particularly the armed forces should be the duty of each citizen. Service imbues several values that I believe would serve our citizenry well, a sense of duty and honor. If we tie civic responsibility to patriotism in that manner, I believe that civic participation would benefit as a result. That said, the armed forces should not only fight wars. There should be branches dedicated to community service, "state building", & disaster recovery, and these branches should vastly supersede the "war" branch. (particularly in public perception and numbers. Yes, we fight wars, but 3/4 of our forces are used for "light-side" activities).

      The military split needs to occur for several reasons. One is mentioned in the TED presentation listed above. Another is to remove the objections raised by pacifists and conscientious objectors. The final reason is to prevent conflation of powers, purpose, & jurisdiction between them.

      --
      *However, everyone receives proper military training--physical, emergency, weapons, etc. This is for two reasons. If "shit goes down", we're better prepared for it. Less people will lose their heads, coordination will increase (increased teamwork), and improved response quality. More importantly, the government needs to put more tools necessary to overthrow itself in the hands of the citizenry. Our government isn't afraid of the people, which allows them to get away with more than they should.

    11. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      The thing that gets me is that you're no longer describing a free society. You're describing one in which you need to perform certain duties before you can have a voice. And if we're talking about military service (which you're not doing exclusively) then the very point of it is to change people and break down their differences and opinions and subsume them to the chain of authority.

      I have no problem with anyone who considers service to their society a moral duty. But make it a legal one and you're crossing the line to something other than participatory democracy and the right of man to self determination, IMHO.

    12. Re:Minor correction by coolGuyZak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, my ideas don't preclude you from voicing an opinion during service, albeit I realize that's how our military works at present. I hadn't thought of that particular ramification, though. I'll have to ponder it for a while.

      But make it a legal one and you're crossing the line to something other than participatory democracy and the right of man to self determination, IMHO.

      In my opinion, democracy is not participatory, it is not something you should choose to do. Participatory democracy falls to apathy, and the state of my country is a testament to that. Most people bitch about our two party system, bitch about the incompetence of our leaders, but don't have the cojones to back up their words. They don't care enough to reach for the polls, or investigate how duplicitous the media is. This is due partly to our educational system(s), but it's also because these people have never made a difference themselves, or at least seen the effects of it.

      For example: I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. I love this city, but it has a great deal of problems. Recently, we've been hitting the news for our murder rate, the amount of refuse in the streets, and other such things. If each person in the city worked for 2 hours a week (that's 12 million man-hours a month) on community service projects, we could change the city around in short order. Just living in the city would be a testament to your efforts, and the whole community would improve as a result. Better digs, better self-esteem.

      It builds community, as the means of coordination require teamwork, etc. It increases work-ethic, because you're required to put in time & you see results. It could increase health, depending upon your role in the project. Finally, it will increase the attraction of the city, and justify our motto--what better says "The city of brotherly love" than working together to improve it? If it were instituted only on a local level, you still get your choice--if you don't like it, move.

      It's a pity that it's not a pragmatic solution. Try to institute mandatory community service and you'd see a riot.

    13. Re:Minor correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Britain would have been invaded by the Nazis."
      Do you guys do history? Britain had control of the skies, please explain how to invade an island without aerial control!

    14. Re:Minor correction by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Italy was part of the Axis countries in WWII, and Austria's position is questionable, since it was largely willingly "annexed". I forget exactly where Spain sat during WWII and am too lazy to look it up.

      And at the risk of huge downward moderation, don't forget that without the help of those other Allies, the pesky Russians, odds are that Germany would not have been defeated. It was the Russians, after all, that liberated Berlin, which they could not have done without the US's involvement.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    15. Re:Minor correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if you wanted a free Europe afterwards. Sure Russia could have finished Hitler off but they would conquer Europe in that case.

    16. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Oh indubitably you'd end up with a nicer city. You'd also end up with people trying to buy their way out of it, or around it. You'd end up with folks refusing. Lots of very indignant people refusing to take part as they don't see why they owe anything to the rest of those a**holes out there.

      And I'd have some sympathy with them. I work hard and pay my taxes. My time is worth more to me, to the economy and to the tax office when it's invested in what I'm most skilled at. Why should I not pay others to clean my environment for me?

      I think it's a feedback loop, the more disconnected with each other (and with the state of things) people feel, the less likely they're going to want to do anything for anyone else. And they'll see community service as doing things for other people, not themselves.

      Arguably you could achieve the same effect by having an efficient town government that uses tax money on important civic items rather than squandering them on god knows what.

      Oh, my sides nearly split with that one. What a day that would be! And of course, as you rightly point out, people seem to have given up on politics lately, because it doesn't feel like they make any difference.

      I see your point, that if people were directly involved in the maintenance of the city then they would have more of an interest. But I don't think it would work, because people are fundamentally lazy and selfish.

    17. Re:Minor correction by bentcd · · Score: 1

      It's the USAs' military might that saved Europe in WW1 (...) Europe didn't need much "saving" in WW1. What the US did was at best to help decide which wrong side would win. WW1 was a classical European war in that its long-term effects would be rather minor whichever side won (as always, I am sure Alsace/Elsaß and Lorraine/Lothringen might change sides, etc.).

      The real long-term fallout from WW1 (if we ignore WW2) was the fall of the colonial empires, but that happened in spite of the biggest of them being one of the winners of that war.
      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    18. Re:Minor correction by bentcd · · Score: 1

      The idea is that in order to be a citizen you need to risk your life defending your species. The usual way is fighting, but might be testing drugs, or equipment, or exploration, etc. The rationale behind that is people willing to risk their life for others would value the well being of society above theirs, so they would be great leaders that protect society (...) Or else they just have an endorphine addiction.
      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    19. Re:Minor correction by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 1

      Would you consider fighting forest fires? Working as a Nurses Aid in ghetto clinics? Riding in ambulances that service ghetto areas? There are many areas of service that would qualify...

    20. Re:Minor correction by icebrain · · Score: 1

      I see some very interesting ideas that would be interesting to explore...

      How about this scenario:

      -Franchise granted after completion of public service (defined below). As with Heinlein's system, any mentally-competent person of legal age must be given a job, so to speak. One difference I'd make is that it wouldn't be a "one-shot" affair; if you quit before your term is up, you can still come back later, but you have to start over (no credit for previous service).

      -"Public service" would fall under two categories: hazardous, and non-hazardous.

      Hazardous duty would be military, police, coast guard, firefighter, etc. In other words, your job description involves putting your life at risk.

      Non-hazardous duty would be disaster relief, social work, medical service, etc. A service term for this category would be longer than for hazardous duty.

      -Included in any of the above would be some form of basic training, including first aid, emergency response, and simple military stuff (small arms, platoon-level tactics, etc), for the reasons mentioned in parent (particulary the "government should be afraid of the populace" one). And somewhat following the Swiss model, anyone who wishes to be part of the "home guard" (basically a voluntary militia) would be issued a battle rifle, sidearm, and ammunition contingent upon regular qualification.

      -You may not collect public benefits (like medicare, welfare, social security, if there are any), unless you are currently serving or have successfully completed a term. "Drop-outs" lose their benefits until they sign up again. Children automatically receive benefits until eligible to sign up for service, as do those ineligible due to mental handicap.

      -A felony conviction voids any service record; one may regain status after serving the appropriate sentence and completing another service term (possibly require hazardous service in this case?).

      -Service would also be a prerequisite for holding public office. I'm tempted to require two consecutively-served terms as a requirement, actually. There would also be term limits to prevent career politicians.

      Few things irritate me more than parasites who choose to contribute nothing to society, but insist they are entitled to the benefits of it. Again, to preempt the flames I know to be coming, I'm referring to those who do so by choice, not those with physical/mental handicaps. To paraphrase (I think) Voltaire, your democracy is over once people start using the force of government to plunder for themselves.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    21. Re:Minor correction by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      It's the USAs' military might that saved Europe in WW1 and WW2, and recently through NATO that allows much of Europe to eschew a large military for protection and kept them from becoming another Soviet satellite nation or becoming another Chinese Tibet.
      No, the U.S. got involved on one side of a world conflict based on colonial ambitions of the European powers. All the propaganda about Teutonic Beasts was just that, propaganda. Plus, the Russians (one of the "good guys") were under a much more depotic monarchy than the Germans. If the U.S. had not gotten into WWI, the Allies and the Central Powers would eventually have had to come to some kind of agreement. Neither the Central Powers nor the Allies were anywhere near being able to win, so we didn't save any country from being conquered. We just helped one colonialist side defeat another colonialist side.


      Also, if we had not gotten involved in WWI, there would not have been a WWII. By giving victory to the British and French, and thus letting them ruin the German economy, we helped pave the way for Hitler's rise to power (something the first President Bush and his father were quite happy about, along with much of Corporate America).

    22. Re:Minor correction by ucblockhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Battle of Britain, in which Britain gained air superiority thus dooming any invasion attempt, occurred before the US entered the war. At best, US support prevented Britain from suing for peace, which it probably would have been forced to do without American supplies, but it would have likely retained its independence.

      Without US support, France and Italy would likely have been "liberated" by the Russians.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    23. Re:Minor correction by coolGuyZak · · Score: 1

      And I'd have some sympathy with them. I work hard and pay my taxes. My time is worth more to me, to the economy and to the tax office when it's invested in what I'm most skilled at. Why should I not pay others to clean my environment for me?

      I understand your position as well, but I feel that the middle and upper class have the most to learn from this: humility and respect of others.

    24. Re:Minor correction by Hierarch · · Score: 1

      The US has a weird, hyper-patriotic society that a lot of Europeans find bizarre, brainwashing and militaristic.

      Umm, if my memory isn't failing me, don't a lot of countries still have compulsory military service for their citizens? Israel, Kuwait, and Switzerland come to mind. Granted, the first two aren't European, but Switzerland certainly is.

      And only giving the franchise to people who have previously served in the military? Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

      That should be obvious. "I have a gun and I have been trained in how to use it to kill you. You haven't." (ObDisclaimer: I haven't fired a gun in over 20 years, and I doubt I even remember which end to hold anymore....)

      Your attitude reminds me rather strongly of a segment from an Eddie Murphy stand-up routine. Shorn of the profanity (which constitutes 90% of the content), I'm sure the first slaves to come off the boat refused to bale that cotton. The survivors, having seen what happened to the first few, baled cotton.

      In the real world, might really does make right. We don't like it, and we believe that's morally wrong, but it's still true. Only when the mighty have a strong moral backbone does this change.

      --
      --Somebody infect me with a .sig virus, I'm too lazy to write my own!
    25. Re:Minor correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more importantly, please explain how to invade an island when you don't have sea control, and the people with sea control happen to have the largest or second largest (I'm not sure when the USA passed Britain) navy in the world, and BY FAR the largest navy in the particular theatre in which the island you're invading is located.

    26. Re:Minor correction by mckyj57 · · Score: 1


      "Europe has had the hyper-patriotic societies that led the world to war."

      Why do you think that looking at the US concerns us so?

      Apparently you can't see the difference. Italy and Germany of the mid-20th century
      were hyper-patriotic. France of the post-war period was very much so. All Arab
      countries are now.


      "you don't even know what the words "hyper" and "patriotic" mean."

      Hmmm, lets look at some definitions. "Hyper" - prefix meaning excessive, above, or beyond, eg, hyperactive.
      "Patriotic" - Inspired by love for you country.

      So, hyper-patriotic would be "excessively inspired by love for your country", which is exactly what I meant. The flag worship, the daily pledge recitations, the "GAWD BLESS AMERICA!", the reverence for the military. All very prominent parts of US culture.

      Hyper is a gradation above "overly" or "excessively". It's connotation is "to
      the Nth degree". There is a great deal of debate in the US over
      these issues, and has been for decades. And yes, as with any country almost
      since time immemorial, there is love for it.

      What do you suggest, self-loathing nihilism?


      "If a nation were hyper-patriotic, it would not tolerate dissent."

      That would depend exactly _how_ excessive the patriotism was.

      What is more excessive than hyper, pray tell?


        As it is now there seems to be a large proportion of US society that refuses to question the government and a large portion that, as long as they're told there's a crisis on, will go along with any sort of behaviour (internment, torture) simply because it's the good ol' US of A doing it. And doing it to "bad" people who want to hurt america.

      You are again showing your colors. "Any sort of behaviour" implies no limits,
      and lumps the U.S. in with entities that show no regard for human rights at
      all. Which is not the case.


      It's excessive enough that the phrase "anti-american" exists and is slung around. Maybe it just doesn't have the same asonance, but nobody says "anti-British" or "anti-French" as far as I know.

      Back in the day, when they were superpowers, you can bet the equivalent was
      bandied about.


      That is more than enough to qualify as excessively patriotic to many people.

      I will consider the source.

    27. Re:Minor correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooo, I'm bored, so I'll bite.

      "What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever"

      . . .except that they have contributed to the welfare of society and the furtherance of national interest by risking life, limb, and happiness; by sacrificing liberties; and by suffering hardship. If you wish to declare that this is is "[n]othing whatsoever" you may, just as you may declare that the moon is made of green cheese. Everyone must agree to the answer for a question to be rhetorical.

      Perhaps what you mean to ask is if public service is sufficient to supplant self-interest as the basis of franchise. Perhaps you also recall that the historical question is whether the self-interest of many will lead to the public good of all, and that Heinlein is hardly the first to ask it. Perhaps, incidentally, you will also recall that the US was one of the first nations to adopt universal sufferage while parts of Europe still practiced virtual (or literal) serfdom. It's not as simple an issue as you seem to believe. The experiment is still ongoing.

      Parts of the world are stepping back from democracy. Personally I think we are realizing the 18th century fears of universal sufferage, especially in the US. Politics is become a popularity contest and a spectator sport, and the public can hardly seem to relate their interests to issues. Now's not the time to take democracy for granted.

    28. Re:Minor correction by mr_shifty · · Score: 1

      I don't even think Heinlein was proposing it as a "good" model... Heinlein was pretty good for taking a societal concept (such as public service as a condition for suffrage) and bringing it to its logical conclusions. While he did soapbox quite a bit in his work, not every system he diagrammed in every one of his novels was necessarily something he thought was a good idea.

      --
      And the circle of life continues to spin, occasionally wobbling on its axis thanks to the weighty presence of dumb.
    29. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      In the real world, might really does make right.

      Nope, no it doesn't. That's the whole poit of participatory democracy, that the weak get to say what happens just as much as the strong. And not because the strong allow it, but because the weak are numerous and wily, and if the strong don't listen, then eventually the bloody revolution comes. That helps nobody in the long run.

    30. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      . . .except that they have contributed to the welfare of society and the furtherance of national interest by risking life, limb, and happiness; by sacrificing liberties; and by suffering hardship.

      What national interest? Why should national interest have anything to do with personal interest? I should be deciding the path of my own life as a sovereign and sentient being.

      Society can suck my balls. As universal suffrage does cause the downturn you talk about, I more than ever reserve my right not to have to go to war for tools like GWB.

    31. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "Hyper is a gradation above "overly" or "excessively". It's connotation is "to
      the Nth degree".


      Come back when you've learned english. Hyper means excessive. Hyperthermia - excessive temperature. Hyperglycaemic - excessive blood sugar. Hyper means excessive, often can mean excessive to the point of harmful.

      "What is more excessive than hyper, pray tell?"

      So "hyper" means one specific quantity then, you can't have two people with different body temperatures, both of which have hyperthermia? (and no, the low body temp thing you're thinking of is hypothermia, the logical opposite of hyper).

      "Back in the day, when they were superpowers, you can bet the equivalent was bandied about."

      And look at what happened. That's exactly my point you idiot.

      "I will consider the source."

      Do so. It's clearly someone with more knowledge of history and the english language than you posess.

    32. Re:Minor correction by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Without the USA's support, Britain would have been invaded by the Nazis.
      Yes, without all those American pilots and American planes helping us in 1940, we'd definitely have lost the Battle of Britain.

      Oh wait, the US didn't enter the war until 1941...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    33. Re:Minor correction by Nursie · · Score: 1

      It does depend, somewhat, on your definition of contribution.

      I currently contribute somewhere around a third of my labour (in direct PAYE contributions) in the form of tax.

    34. Re:Minor correction by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      " Without the USA's support, Britain would have been invaded by the Nazis.

      Yes, without all those American pilots and American planes helping us in 1940, we'd definitely have lost the Battle of Britain.

      Oh wait, the US didn't enter the war until 1941..."

      Pray tell, exactly *how* would Britain have kept their planes flying and the industry to support and build and repair them going without the US's support? Try Googling "WW2 Prewar Aid". Critical arms, aircraft, and supplies were being shipped to Britain well before 1941.

      Also, for those who think that if the US didn't participate that Russia would simply have been the one to have liberated France and would have defeated Germany and been the only one to enter Berlin, then they have another think coming. Try Googling "WW2 Lend Lease". Without arms , aircraft, and supplies from the US, neither Russia nor Britain would have been able to maintain their war-making capabilities. If you'd like details on US prewar plans and foreign aid, try here:

      http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/csppp/ch10.htm

      Which is excerpted from the main document here:

      http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/csppp/index.htm

      Goodness, what are they teaching in the history classes over there? I would have expected better than the poor job the US does with public education.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    35. Re:Minor correction by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      It does depend, somewhat, on your definition of contribution.

      I currently contribute somewhere around a third of my labour (in direct PAYE contributions) in the form of tax.


      So, then I guess you're OK with the ultra-rich and large corporations having the bulk of the say in government since they "contribute" more? Or are you simply saying: "I'm well-off and spoiled and don't give a rats' about giving the society that allows me the means to be that way anything, I want what I want, now give it to me!"?

      I suspect it's the latter rather than the former.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    36. Re:Minor correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoever marked this troll needs to be perma-banned.

    37. Re:Minor correction by easyTree · · Score: 1

      As it is now there seems to be a large proportion of US society that refuses to question the government and a large portion that, as long as they're told there's a crisis on, will go along with any sort of behaviour (internment, torture) simply because it's the good ol' US of A doing it. And doing it to "bad" people who want to hurt america.

      You are again showing your colors. "Any sort of behaviour" implies no limits,
      and lumps the U.S. in with entities that show no regard for human rights at
      all. Which is not the case.

      *cough* for starters:
        * Holding people without trial and subjecting them to torture
        * Invasion of countries totally unconnected to terrorism
        * Reading _all_ traffic sent over the 'net, private or otherwise

      What limits did you have in mind?
  28. Still Sony got it right....... by Blue_Wombat · · Score: 1
    Still Sony got it right with its laptop batteries. We should all run out and buy those. Apparently they're HOT HOT HOT!

    Sorry, pinning it on BMG dosen't work. This is vintage Sony, and their contempt for their customer. In this country Sony DVD players were the only ones that wern't reliably region free (big deal if you want discs from other regions, which are legal and sold openly). Or then there's the noxious DRM on Minidisc - can't pull a digital copy of something you recorded onto your PC even if you own it, they lied and said minidisc played MP3 when it transcoded instead, the are a key bankroller of the RIAA's standover extortion from kids and grandmothers, they took DRM to a whole new level with Bluray, and of course there's ARCOSS. If you want to go back even further, goofle the underhand way they used misinformation to kill off the Dreamcast.

    Sony is the vermin of the consumer electronics industry. You should boycott them not just to make a stand, but because the products they peddle are often no better than the alternatives - they just cost more and always seem to have hidden strings attached. They are underhand, arrogant, dishonest people. Why woould you give them your hard earned money?

    1. Re:Still Sony got it right....... by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Because they make powerful, lightweight laptops with very pretty screens.

      They also make great TVs that not only perform well but are finished and styled well too.

      Face it - they make good stuff and relatively few people heard of or care about this issue. And even if they did care, there's not many folks in the world that actually engage their brain when spending money.

    2. Re:Still Sony got it right....... by Laurence0 · · Score: 1

      And they bought the James Bond franchise, and immediately produced an awful film bearing the name, but wasn't remotely a Bond film... As far as I could tell, it was an overlong advert for Sony cameras, phones... Oh, and Ford.

    3. Re:Still Sony got it right....... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 0

      > Because they make powerful, lightweight laptops with very pretty screens.
      >
      > They also make great TVs that not only perform well but are finished
      > and styled well too.

      I tried one of those Laptops, a VAIO. The AC adapter plug that plugs into the laptop broke. The replacement was $300. I asked about just the connector, which was $295. I said I'd buy one and go into production selling copies (I can injection mold plastic) and then I find out the @#%^ thing is patented. After some research, it seems that Sony had tried to get many connectors patented, but they were all too close to pre-existing designs, or they were obvious. So, Sony came up with something that nobody in their right mind would produce. That way, they could patent it. (Nobody contested the usefulness of this patent...I'll have to save up $2k.)

      So, I've got a Sony Vaio brick, and I don't trust Sony's warranties any more.

      To sum up, you are a damn liar. Sony does not make laptops, they make proprietary bricks.

      Andy Out!

    4. Re:Still Sony got it right....... by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      In this country Sony DVD players were the only ones that wern't reliably region free (big deal if you want discs from other regions, which are legal and sold openly).

      Hrm... when I bought my home theatre system a few years back one of the deciding factors in going with Sony was that all their DVD players were multi-region from the factory - they just didn't advertise it.

      I'm guessing from your user name that you are also located in Australia.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  29. Oh yes, It's just you. by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Moron.

    Sony products are everywhere. I saw lines of people taking away sony tvs when they were on offer at a supermarket in the UK the other day.

    PS3 outsells xBox 360 in the EU.
    It's currently outselling the Wii in Japan.

    They aren't going anywhere.

    1. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by joaommp · · Score: 1

      Yes they are everywhere, you zealot idiot. But that just mean they are STILL there, for now. Many big companies have come and gone. But I wasn't talking about that.

      I used to love Sony products. When I mentioned the downfall, I meant about quality and consumer relations. It is too big of a company to just disappear, but it is quickly loosing credibility within the consumer market from the recent events that casted a shadow upon it.

      PS3 outselling xBox or Wii... don't know whether it is true or not but who cares? What's that got to do with this? What matters is that Sony recently is like oh, let's say, explosive batteries, or installing rootkits on the client machines, or purposedly misleading costumers and including false statements in the laptop packages and announcements relating to the software included with them. That is downright asking for a lawsuit and undermining its own credibility.

    2. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I'm no zealot, but your original remark:

      "It seems that Sony has been making a lot of really bad mistakes and it is heading freefall."

      is just wrong. The company may have made a few mistakes from the geek perspective, but people as a whole just don't care. It's a sad fact, but companies all over the world do far, far worse things (in moral terms) than Sony have done, yet continue to go from success to success. Look at MS, look at Coca Cola, look at Nestle.

      BTW, those things I said about PS3 - look 'em up. All true. The "outselling Wii in Japan" thing was reported on /. within the last few weeks, the PS3 has been outselling the 360 in europe for a while now. Not that it'll have the same install base yet (not been out nearly as long), but the sales are outpacing MS I believe.

      (I apologise for starting my last post with the word "moron", I hadn't had my coffee yet).

    3. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by joaommp · · Score: 1

      1) Your caffeine levels are no excuse. 2) As I said later, freefall not in a size/market point of view, but from a credibility point of view. 3) Yes, people do care. Wouldn't you care if you'd been mislead? "Here is your software!" "Gee, thanks! Erm... where's the software?" "It's not!" "No software?" "No. Just an empty box." "Ok, I don't care." 4) People do care about their privacy. 5) You continue to throw in the PS3 sales as an argument but it has nothing to do with the discussion. 6) Yes, lots of other companies do bad things in moral terms but there is one big difference between bad in moral terms and bad in business terms. They are not forcibly related.

    4. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "1) Your caffeine levels are no excuse."

      Fine, just trying to clear the air with a minor capitulation on my part, I can see the effort was unappreciated.

      "2) As I said later, freefall not in a size/market point of view, but from a credibility point of view."

      Umm, yeah, and as I said, the average person doesn't give a crap. The rootkit stuff either didn't affect them personally, or they didn't understand what it was, or they didn't care. Either way they've forgotten by now.

      "3) Yes, people do care. Wouldn't you care if you'd been mislead? "Here is your software!" "Gee, thanks! Erm... where's the software?" "It's not!" "No software?" "No. Just an empty box." "Ok, I don't care.""

      What are you referring to there? I'm a geek and even I have no idea.

      "4) People do care about their privacy."

      You car about your privacy. I care about my privacy. It seems a lot of folks care more about so-called security. And another lot of folks never even thought of it. And most of them will never of heard of this rootkit thing from Sony. Let alone known what it was or what the implications were.

      "6) Yes, lots of other companies do bad things in moral terms but there is one big difference between bad in moral terms and bad in business terms. They are not forcibly related."

      Oh I agree, I just don't think Sony have tarnished themselves in the eyes of the public. Much like Joe Public doesn't know why some folks have a grievance against Microsoft. Or care.

    5. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by joaommp · · Score: 1

      "1) Your caffeine levels are no excuse."

      Fine, just trying to clear the air with a minor capitulation on my part, I can see the effort was unappreciated.

      Not to underappreciate your effort, but that was just a note/remark that in the future, you should try to refrain from making those comments instead of appologising for them. My policy is to avoid having to appologise, instead of misbehaving and appologising.

      "2) As I said later, freefall not in a size/market point of view, but from a credibility point of view."

      Umm, yeah, and as I said, the average person doesn't give a crap. The rootkit stuff either didn't affect them personally, or they didn't understand what it was, or they didn't care. Either way they've forgotten by now.

      You're not european, are you? People here DO care a lot about the credibility of a company. Not only the geeks.

      "3) Yes, people do care. Wouldn't you care if you'd been mislead? "Here is your software!" "Gee, thanks! Erm... where's the software?" "It's not!" "No software?" "No. Just an empty box." "Ok, I don't care.""

      What are you referring to there? I'm a geek and even I have no idea.

      Sony has been annoucing in some laptops included software that never was there. My Mom, a completely NON-Geek person has begun legal action about the laptops she bought for my brothers. As you see, my Mother does care. My Mother told about this to my Family, her friends and co-workers. Some were about to buy Sony laptops before knowing. None of them bought after knowing.

    6. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "Not to underappreciate your effort, but that was just a note/remark that in the future, you should try to refrain from making those comments instead of appologising for them"

      Well, I'm not _that_ upset over it, I was quite annoyed by the multiple backslapping "Sony are going down the pan!" "yeah d00d!" comments that slashdot has been running for a decade now on the likes of MS. It's all fun I'm sure, but largely incorrect and masturbatory. The world doesn't run on logic or good practice, much to my own chagrin.

      "You're not european, are you? People here DO care a lot about the credibility of a company"

      British actually, yes. You have more faith in people than I can muster these days. Maybe if you're French then your compatriots have a little more in the way of moral fortitude when it comes to these matters. I'm not convinced the British do (we still have a labour government for a start).

      "Sony has been announcing in some laptops included software that never was there."

      First thing I did with mine was wipe it and put Ubuntu on there. Did notice it was jammed full of "Trial versions" of things (i.e. pay us if you want your data next month). Doesn't sound like you issue has had a lot of press.

    7. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by joaommp · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm Portuguese. Please don't call me french. Or spanish. We take it personally.

      People here actually do write in the complaints book even though merchants try to dissuade us and sometimes threanten us. I have made two complaints myself in the past 2 months. I have also sued - successfully - Compaq (a few years ago). My Mother has almost sued the local Toyota representative and our cable ISP (and backed off because they solved our problems when they got threatened). So we do take a stand. The complaints books here are inspected periodically by a national authority (which varies according to the business type) and companies are actually fined, even though the fine may or may not be anything significant.

      In the laptops my Mom bought there was no "Trial version inside" but there were actually "full version inside" notices. I have no reason to be backslapping Sony, I have no personal grudge against the company, but it really did look like to me that Sony is in fact been showing some products. Maybe it's a phase the company is going through, maybe it's just an opinion biased by the multiple news about it (even though I had my own personal/familiar experience with Sony recently). Just shared my point of view and people either agree or disagree.

    8. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by fbjon · · Score: 1

      The "outselling Wii in Japan" thing was reported on /. within the last few weeks, the PS3 has been outselling the 360 in europe for a while now. "Outselling" the Wii is a stretch, looking at the numbers. It did so temporarily a few weeks ago, but not anymore, certainly not in Japan. It is indeed outselling the 360 in Europe/Japan though.
      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    9. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Yes, just read up on it a bit more. It outsold the Wii in Japan for November, and is now firmly back in second place.

      Still, not really an indication of a lost cause or a total flop is it?

    10. Re:Oh yes, It's just you. by fbjon · · Score: 1

      I think Sony has made some dreadful mistakes, but still the PS3 is really decent, and quite a piece of hardware. I don't think that the problem for Sony is whether the PS3 is a flop or success, because it seems to be gaining speed finally, it's that the Wii is a steamroller they never even saw the rear lights of as it disappeared beyond the horizon.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  30. Re:Islam will bring morality back to Europe by arivanov · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ugh... The movie... Puke...

    It has nothing to do with the original message from the novel. The novel had a number of very powerful messages regarding social structure, moral, etc. These are all absent from the film. And in the novel the enemy was anything but low tech.

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  31. "hanges to the DMCA to protect consumers" by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Pigs will be ice skating in hell before that happens...

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:"hanges to the DMCA to protect consumers" by mgenet · · Score: 1

      Sony being the pig (sp-ham) and the buyer being the eggs? "But I don't like sp-ham"

  32. Hardware vs Software by TTURabble · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way I see it, my computer is my property much like my house is also my property. They both have "doors" to the outside world, but that doesn't mean that anyone can just walk in and have a beer. I guess my favorite analogy is buying a new TV. What if you went out and bought a new TV that had a hidden camera in it, but you didn't know about the hidden camera, and it was broadcasting a signal to anyone who wanted to watch. Would you keep the TV? Would you litigate against the company that made the TV? The camera in the TV is much like the Rootkit in a CD/DVD/etc...They are both there "To make sure you aren't breaking any laws" but they are also massive invasions of privacy into a place that they entered without permission. It would be clear cut if it was a hardware camera, why is it different because it is a software camera?

  33. Reminds me of a sign I saw in a Wal-Mart by langelgjm · · Score: 1

    Laws don't and should not be the only guiding factor in the actions of people or corporations.

    Heh, reminds me of a sign I saw in a Wal-Mart. "Buying tobacco for minors: It's not just wrong, it's illegal." As if being wrong isn't a good enough reason not to do it?

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  34. Never let Sony live this down. by Lunarsight · · Score: 1

    Of all the Big Four, it's definitely the easiest to make an argument against purchasing Sony music.

    You can tell music consumers about all the obnoxious legal tactics that the Big Four does, and they just don't 'get it'.

    However, if you mention that a company puts out audio discs that can potentially F--- up your computer, I think that does sink in.

    (Just don't go too deeply into rootkits. I find it's tricky to explain to people who aren't computer-savvy.)

  35. Re:Does anyone at Sony Japan profit from CD sales? by the+saltydog · · Score: 1

    Does even one cent of those profits go to anyone at Sony in Japan?

    If so, boycott Sony AND BMG.

    I have, and everyone who asks me for my geek advice on purchasing any tech equipment will be, too.

    (I just helped one of my best friends set up his home theater/HDTV at his condo last weekend, which was purchased with my input.
    Panasonic home theater sound system, and Samsung HDTV - no Sony to speak of. His game console will be a Wii, too, when he gets his tax rebate.)

    By the way, that Boycott_BMG account looks pretty new - you don't work for Sony, do you?

  36. Sony/BMG EULA - the choral music setting by JPMH · · Score: 1
    The Sony/BMG EULA - set as haunting choral plainchant.

    One of my favourite examples of "transformative" fair use ever.

    1. Re:Sony/BMG EULA - the choral music setting by neminem · · Score: 1

      Thanks! That's pretty awesome.

  37. Dear moderators by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Whilst my above post is off topic, I'm not sure I see how it's a troll, I'm merely continuing the discussion and answering the points raised by the parent post. It's not even a particularly inflammatory post.

    Of course, I guess "troll" will do because there is no "-1 anti-american" and I appear to have touched a nerve with this one.

  38. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We live in a time when you CPU provides all the power you need to shield processes from each other and your hardware, and we still have to be afraid of what might happen when we run an application? We should be bloody ashamed of ourselves.

  39. Re:Islam will bring morality back to Europe by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
    It has nothing to do with the original message from the novel.

    Except that it parodies the novel, something Heinlein fans have trouble admitting.

    The novel had a number of very powerful messages regarding social structure

    Have you read this by any chance

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Society_and_its_Enemies

    I doubt Popper would classify the society portrayed in Starship Troopers open, it seems like a modern version of Sparta.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta#State_organization

    Not all inhabitants of the Spartan state were considered to be citizens (part of Demos). Only the ones that had followed the military training, called the agoge, were eligible. However, usually the only people eligible to receive the agoge were Spartiates, or people who could trace their ancestry to the original inhabitants of the city although there were two exceptions. Trophimoi or "foster sons" were foreign students invited to study. Xenophon sent his two sons to Sparta for their education as trophimoi. The other exception was that sons of helots could be enrolled as syntrophoi if a Spartiate formally adopted him and paid his way. If a syntrophoi did exceptionally well in training he might be sponsored to become a Spartiate himself.

    Others in the state were the perioeci, who can be described as civilians, and helots who were the state owned serfs that made up 90 percent of the population. Due to the fact that descendants of non-Spartan citizens were not able to follow the agoge, and Spartans could lose their citizenship if they couldn't afford to pay the expenses of the agoge, the actual number of the Spartan citizens was constantly reduced, known as oliganthropia. Or maybe Plato's Republic with Heinlein as a Philospher King.

    It's the rise of militarised, highly unequal societies like this that lead to the dark ages and everything valuable we have today including science and democracy comes from Athens, not Sparta. So it's not completely unfair that Verhoeven parodied Heinlein's ideas as fascist.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  40. Virtual machine compatable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone know how these rootkits work with virtual PCs?

  41. Elvis-wannabes who went into FLOPPY DISKS in '01? by abb3w · · Score: 1

    No, really, read the paper before you mod me off-topic — page 1180 (24th of PDF):

    SunnComm, the company that delivered MediaMax, offered even more cause for concern. The company began as a provider of Elvis impersonation services. After a change in management following a false press release announcing a non-existent $25 million production deal with Warner Brothers, the company purchased a 3.5" floppy disk factory in 2001, displaying a disturbing dearth of technological savvy. After two employees announced their intention to leave the fledgling company to develop copy protection software, SunnComm convinced the pair to lead a new division, leaving both Elvis and floppy discs behind in order to develop what would become MediaMax.

    I swear, I'd be hard pressed to come up with anything this surreal even if I tried.

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  42. So how should it work? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Linux does not, and cannot, prevent this kind of attack. That you think it could shows you have a profound lack of understanding of what the attack was. (Here's a hint -- where do you think the word "rootkit" came from? Duh?)

    There is, of course, exactly one difference: On Windows, AutoRun is the default, and entirely specified by the CD. On Linux, AutoRun barely exists at all, and where it does, it's entirely controlled by the OS -- it never runs a program off the CD, if anything, it launches a media player to play the CD. However, you can easily configure Windows to behave this way.

    In fact, as a software engineer, I cannot think of a way that you could prevent an attack like this without also locking down the machine so hard you might not even be able to install Linux, and certainly, Windows would be a lot less friendly to work with. Vista is an example of what happens when this is tried.

    Can you think of a way this could possibly work?

    Let's look at your suggestion:

    This could be as easy as when the customer boots from his purchased legit installation CD and asks it directly to verify his OS. There is no way any hacker could compromise the code on a stamped CD.

    Actually, yes, yes there is. All it would take is a buffer overrun or any other, similar exploit while it was "verifying" that OS, and the CD would be worthless.

    Also, how do you propose that CD tell the difference between a compromised OS and an upgraded OS? How about the difference between a compromised OS and a deliberately customized OS?

    At least the computer owner would know his computer is telling him the truth over which processes and threads are running, and know the registry keys are being honestly reported.

    Oh, we can already check registry keys -- there are Linux boot CDs for that. But here's a question: Do you actually understand the purpose of every single process and registry key on your system? I know I don't.

    It would really only make a difference once you knew, specifically, what to look for. And once you do, it doesn't really matter, because whoever discovered it would certainly have a recipe for removing it -- a recipe that either wouldn't require a truthful listing of processes and registry keys, or would include a means to discover such a listing.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:So how should it work? by anubi · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the reply.

      You are right observing I do not know exactly what the attack was. It didn't happen to me personally. I read about it here - then went out and got Hogland and Butler's book on "Rootkits-Subverting the Windows Kernel".

      I was quite pissed as I read that thing.

      I am used to writing industrial embedded system code. This kind of stuff where system files are overwritten with files that inaccurately report which files, threads, and processes exist is frightening to me. To me, its like finding my tax preparer is dishonest and is giving my personal info away to his snooper friends.

      Most of my stuff is industrial control systems, robotics, and thermodynamics of heat transfer. Most of the time, I write my own stuff in C, C++, and assembler. I know what a sneaky programmer can do. Most of the time, I won't even use an OS - I'll just get a PIC or AVR microcontroller to do it - as I usually need specialized interfaces anyway. I'll get them all going then link them all on a RS-485 network. If the proverbial shit hits the fan, the system can be run up with a dumb terminal on the RS-485 loop. The supervisory machines mostly fine tune, log performance, and prepare reports for management.

      I read all the time of the rumors where proprietary vendors are "cooperating" with marketers or authorities, and I have little-if any- means of verifying the authenticity or implementation of such rumors. Its as frustrating as trying to find God through religion. Code doesn't lie. People sometimes do.

      I have noted people who want to keep secrets often have something to hide. The secrets I respect are mostly personal secrets.

      I want to know exactly how something works, so if it does not work in the way I intended, I can fix it to where it does. There is no way I can build a reliable control system based on a bunch of crap I don't know. Faith is for religion - not for my designs.

      My designs HAVE to work. Hope is not good enough. Its OK for the record-store kiosk to be out of whack, but its NOT OK for a critical controller in a petrochemical plant to go haywire. I have to write it - everything out in the open - so any other programmer can see what I did - and if something isn't quite right - make it right.

      Programming for the masses and programming for industry are different philosophies. I hate underhanded dealmaking with code with the same purple passion I hate sneaky legal agreements.

      As far as my comments about using the vendor CDROM go, its up to the vendor to see to it he does not have buffer overflows in his verification code. Personally, I would verify all the system executables for match on file length, checksum, and MD5, against the released version - with descrepancies reported to the user. Once I know at least the system core files are not tampered with, I could trust them to accurately tell me what my system is doing. From there, I am on my own, as there is no way the system vendor - whether it be Microsoft or Linux - can be held liable for what the app does. The OS should be able to report what any app does, though. The OS should accurately report all app usage of any system resources. If I had any say, all OS would have the equivalent of SoftIce built in.

      I lost respect for Microsoft when they started doing all this "hidden file" stuff. In my way of thinking, a hidden file is very bad news. Its like writing legal contracts with certain clauses written in ink I can't see, yet my signing the agreement binds me to them. The more legal crap they expected me to abide to, the less comfortable I felt messing with them. I felt their whole business model mimicked selling way overpriced fashiony bluejeans to kids, while I was a plain old LEVI's fan, and ranked resilience and economy over fashion.

      You hit the nail on the head when you stated if Windows were locked down that tight, I could not intall Linux.

      I have no problem with that - I actually expect it. My take is that

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    2. Re:So how should it work? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Personally, I would verify all the system executables for match on file length, checksum, and MD5, against the released version

      But it does get more complex at a higher level. What, exactly, is the released version? How many permutations might you have of acceptable file length, checksum, MD5 of system EXEs, DLLs, scripts, registry settings, etc?

      What do you do when the released version, itself, is compromised?

      In general, I tend to be fairly relaxed when it comes to checking my system for rootkits, because I don't give anything the opportunity in the first place. I have autorun disabled on Windows, and there's no equivalent on Linux, and if there were, it would not have sufficient rights to modify system binaries.

      The OS should be able to report what any app does, though.

      The problem here is, while that's certainly true, Vista shows how problematic that can be, in practice. "You are coming to a sad realization, cancel or allow?"

      For that matter, Linux also shows how problematic that can be -- many users love replacing the detailed log that scrolls by every boot with a simple progress bar (even if the progress bar can't be accurate at all) and absolutely no information about what it's doing. Apparently, ignorance is bliss.

      I lost respect for Microsoft when they started doing all this "hidden file" stuff. In my way of thinking, a hidden file is very bad news.

      Depends what "hidden file" means. For instance, any file on Unix that begins with a dot is hidden from the directory listing, so average users aren't burdened with all kinds of metadata and system settings. But everyone knows this, so it's easy to see a hidden file.

      The problem is not hidden files, it's when files are hidden by rootkits.

      You hit the nail on the head when you stated if Windows were locked down that tight, I could not intall Linux....I have no problem with that - I actually expect it.

      From your explanation of what you expect, I don't think you appreciate the distinction here.

      Right now, of course, I cannot install Linux without booting off some media other than the hard drive -- which usually implies leaving a CD in the drive during a reboot, and quite possibly requires additional intervention after that.

      What I'm talking about is telling the hardware not to trust anything not signed, and not letting the user choose the signing authority -- which would mean you could not install Linux unless your hardware manufacturer approved of the particular build of the particular kernel that you wanted to install.

      That, I think, is in the opposite direction from what you seem to want, which is transparency and control for the user.

      So, to summarize, as simply as I can: There's really nothing an OS vendor can do to completely mitigate the risk of a rootkit. The most sensible steps are much simpler than what you suggest, though what you suggest does actually exist (AIDE and such, but that's another discussion). And while open source is very nice for a few other points you bring up -- you like to know things, and not always take them on faith, and this is much easier when source code is freely available -- that's also pretty fairly unrelated to a rootkit installing itself when a CD is inserted.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:So how should it work? by anubi · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the reply.

      I cannot quibble your points, as all are quite valid.

      My problem is likely that systems have become more complex than I have the capacity to understand, and my own ignorance scares the hell out of me.

      Having all this obfuscation egged on by proprietary IP protection technologies doesn't help one iota.

      My whole love of computing was the elegance of code and good hardware design. Done right, its a work of art. Done poorly, its a nightmare.

      I will be researching your "AIDE" suggestion.

      You hit my nail square on the head noting I like to know things.

      Faith is great for religions, but when it comes to keeping a petrochemical plant running, I am insecure as hell until I know everything about how it works.

      Making the correct decision within seconds may mean the difference between a minor correction and rebuilding a lot of blown up hardware.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    4. Re:So how should it work? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I will be researching your "AIDE" suggestion.

      A bit of background: It was called Tripwire, and I find it isn't actually all that useful. The reason I suggested it was precisely to point out why I think such an approach won't work -- but if it ends up working for you anyway, I can't argue with that.

      Faith is great for religions, but when it comes to keeping a petrochemical plant running, I am insecure as hell until I know everything about how it works.

      I have a question for you, though:

      How much do you know about electrical engineering? Or engineering, period?

      Do you know every circuit in that CPU? Do you know exactly where electrons are moving, and how fast?

      At a certain point, you have to start taking things on faith to do your job effectively. For you, this might be at a much lower level than most of us, but I should point out that faith in a tried, tested, and proven system is not really a bad thing. (However, none of our current OSes are to the point where I would take them entirely on faith if I had your job -- but there are OSes designed for exactly that kind of realtime processing.)

      As for your own ignorance scaring you, at least you have the excuse of not having created those systems. (A current work project has me scared shitless that I've created, in less than a month, an unmanageably huge ball of mud, and that without another month of refactoring, I'll never understand it thoroughly enough to trust it. But I wrote all of it, which makes it worse...)

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    5. Re:So how should it work? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Whoops.

      I meant to say, none of our current desktop OSes. (Linux can be made realtime, but I imagine most people would rather simply buy a commercial RTOS.)

      As long as I have to reply to myself, it's worth mentioning the history of C. It started out as the high-level language, and is now considered a low-level language. A lot of resistance to it, initially, is that programmers could hand-code better (more efficient, etc) assembly. What has eventually happened is that except in a few, very rare circumstances, the compiler is going to write better assembly than you will -- this partly stems from the fact that the ratio of bugs per lines of code stays constant, no matter what the language, so because C is less verbose than assembly, C code will be less buggy.

      Of course, it's not perfect. Sometimes, you really do have to dig into assembly, even simply for performance. Hand-tweaked code can always beat compiler-generated code, but the amount of time and potential for error of that hand-tweaking is why compilers are used almost everywhere now.

      I'm not advocating that you switch to C, just pointing out that your need to know things in that amount of depth is not always justified.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    6. Re:So how should it work? by anubi · · Score: 1
      The last CPU I really got into was the 65C02.

      Being CPU designs don't have a history of vulnerability to hostile attacks ( other than what happens when one executes unspecified opcodes ), I did not feel I needed to micromanage their work. Just as I would not micromanage one who produces bolts for us. But if those bolts start failing - then I make it my business to find out why.

      Frankly, I found proprietary software solutions sorely lacking in having a history of secure function OR long term support. I was willing to go the Microsoft API and MFC as long as they would let me verify the source code. I have no problem with them owning the copyright to it or my paying royalties to replicate it - what I had a huge problem with is not knowing how it worked. I felt more like a veterinarian trying to diagnose a sick cat than an engineer trying to diagnose a malfunctioning industrial controller.

      And yes, I do "C", although for larger stuff I prefer C++, especially if I am working with others.

      I agree with you about the assembler - I either use it for tiny stuff or optimizing some tight control loop. Like you say - very time consuming and prone to errors, and I hate to do precision math in assembler!

      I do not like trying to run fullbore OS realtime, although I can usually figure out some way of interrupting it to process a realtime thread, providing I do not interrupt too often ( maybe once a second or so - and not be critical to latency or dropped interrupts ). If lucky, I can use techniques similar to audio processing, but again, having a dropout in music may be a minor annoyance, having a dropout in an industrial controller usually results in a batch of unusable product.

      I usually delegate the persnikety stuff to a microcontroller, then have the microcontroller accept commands and report status to the main OS machine.

      So far, I mostly use a multidrop RS-485 network for this, and have been pretty successful. Thats how I would use a plain terminal to bring up my "system" by feeding it the commands to start it up, then once running - they run on their own, taking commands from "unit000" and each unit reporting status as commanded. The protocol I use is limited to 256 "units", with unit000 being the master control, with each incremental unit getting a lower priority on the bus. It was all for industrial control, as I wanted to make damn sure some critical temperature and motion controllers kept going no matter what happened to the main control computer. Bad things would happen if things shut down improperly. It was all an exercise in no central point of failure. The big OS ran all the big pretty status displays, logged everything, prepared management reports, and commanded the network as management directed.

      I am looking to use the CAN bus, used a lot by cars to replace this in my next incarnation. It has the robustness and simplicity I need.

      Oh yes, the tripwire. Stiller had an integrity checker which I based my scanner from. From what I understand, its essentially tripwire. It lets me know if any of its "watched" files have been tampered with.

      I guess we each have our way of doing things - and I guess its good, as it gives the bad guys not only the problem of outsmarting the code, but trying to figure out how we are going to find out he's been romping around ;).

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    7. Re:So how should it work? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I was willing to go the Microsoft API and MFC as long as they would let me verify the source code.

      Part of what's attractive about open source is knowing that someone, somewhere, is probably verifying it. Probably many someones. This is probably true of all code, but in open source, it seems much more likely that they'd be independent, with independent agendas (or none at all).

      So, since I can't review all source code, everywhere, I'd much rather start with open source where I can.

      And yes, I do "C", although for larger stuff I prefer C++, especially if I am working with others.

      I admit to preferring higher-level stuff myself, but C++ seems like the best balance that exists today, except for maybe Perl/Python/Ruby plus C/asm extensions/bindings. (Which is kind of sad...)

      I do not like trying to run fullbore OS realtime... If lucky, I can use techniques similar to audio processing, but again, having a dropout in music may be a minor annoyance, having a dropout in an industrial controller usually results in a batch of unusable product.

      Well, I wouldn't suggest Ubuntu, I'd suggest a Linux kernel to start with, with some realtime patches. But only after looking at things like TRON or similar commercial products... although I suppose offloading it to a microcontroller makes sense, too.

      Oh yes, the tripwire. Stiller had an integrity checker which I based my scanner from. From what I understand, its essentially tripwire. It lets me know if any of its "watched" files have been tampered with.

      See, the problem I have with tripwire is:

      • If anyone's been able to modify a system binary, what's to prevent them modifying the Tripwire binary? Tripwire (or AIDE) only works so long as they aren't writing Tripwire-aware rootkits.
      • How many files can I actually watch for modifications? If I only watch system binaries, I won't notice someone messing with /etc/passwd. If I watch all of /etc, I'll get a ton of false positives, so I'd tend to ignore the rest. If I watch /etc/passwd, I might not notice when /etc/sudoers becomes important. You'd need someone whose full-time job is to know the system inside and out -- which might be you, but even as a sysadmin, my job was to know the system well enough to add new functionality (a new email server, a backup system, etc.)
      • Is the system aware of package updates, or new packages? If it is, does it report them? If so, do I drown in the flood of updates? (Spam, as above.) If not, what if someone compromises the update server?

      That's all my opinion, of course. Many of my opinions and security habits run directly contrary to the commonly accepted wisdom in the security community.

      I will say that if you had at least one person whose full-time job was the system's security, in depth, then an intrusion detection system would make sense -- in fact, more than one. With an open source or shared source system, you could even have one person (or a team of people) review the source code of each patch before you apply it. There are companies that do this.

      It is interesting reading about how you have this setup, though! Even if my instinct is to immediately jump all over your approach and suggest some lightweight Ruby or something on the main control computer, or even a web service. I also have this instinct to suggest TCP/IP or even an HTTP stack -- they make em small enough now -- though I imagine you know about this, and probably are sticking with the simplest thing that can work here, for good reason.

      I guess we each have our way of doing things - and I guess its good, as it gives the bad guys not only the problem of outsmarting the code, but trying to figure out how we are going to find out he's been romping around

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  43. Am I missing something? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    The entire reason you need the software to play this music is because when you first inserted the CD, it installed itself and made sure of that.

    So if you had autorun/autoplay completely disabled, you could run, say, Windows CD Player, and play it without running any software off the disc.

    Or you could boot Linux and just play it.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  44. Mods are having a bad morning, again. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1
    That's about an un-trollish response (to a possibly trollish GP) that I've seen downmodded.

    Short note to the person with mod points -

    - CAREFULLY read the post that you are considering moderating.
    - ALWAYS take ALL of your medication as prescribed
    - READ the Slashdot FAQ again.
    - DO NOT taunt happy fun ball.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  45. Wrong word. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    "At best they get a version which was skewed and slanted through the prism of their family religion."
    All morals have a religious foundation. What you are talking about is ethics.
    I am very afraid that most people don't get any religious instruction at home. Most of the people I know at work don't take their kids to church.
    We have a have a world where parents are letting children figure out sex, ethics, morals, and religion for themselves. Just not a good idea.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  46. vote for an uninteresting tag by infonography · · Score: 1
    we could use more negative moderations then just overrated, etc. We need to properly punish the inane.

       

    inane

    Function:
            adjective
    Inflected Form(s):
            inaner; inanest
    Etymology:
            Latin inanis

    1 : empty, insubstantial 2 : lacking significance, meaning, or point : silly
    synonyms see insipid
    -- inanely adverb
    -- inaneness noun
    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  47. imnho, Federal felonies. by coats · · Score: 1
    Particularly given that the sony root-kit was shown to have affected many computers on the ".mil" domain, and considering just how hard it is to eradicate, I don't see how this fails to violate the Federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act -- and in particular the Federal Interest Computer provisions. See http://www.cpsr.org/prevsite/cpsr/privacy/crime/fraud.act.txt

    It is a felony. From where I sit, it looks to me like someone at Sony should be doing ten years in the slammer. Or perhaps (since it is a "person") Sony itself should be given the Corporate Death Penalty.

    fwiw

    --
    "My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
  48. This from the people that signed the Lisbon Treaty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, Europe gets a referendum on the EU Constitution.
    It is soundly defeated.
    Then the EU renames the Constitution the Lisbon Treaty and the governments go ahead and sign it WITHOUT asking the people.

    This is especially touchy in the UK where they we promised a referendum on the Constitution.

    All this while in Brussels (the capital of the EU) they are debating whether or not to split Belgium into two separate countries because they can't form a government.

    Screw you! What gives you the right to decide that? What gives those citizens the right to decide how everyone else gets to live? Nothing whatsoever.

    You don't have a democracy in Europe or even a Republic.
    You have a pseudo-aristocracy.
    But instead of power passed by birth it is passed by some Mandarin-like academy system. You traded Aristocracy for Bureaucracy.

    You have a long way to go before you can even THINK about criticizing the US of democratic principles.

  49. And I'm still waiting for the arrests by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 1

    As the tag says--"bullshit, it's a felony". When the fuck are we going to see everyone involved in this project DRAGGED AWAY IN HANDCUFFS? As I've said before, if a preteen was caught installing rootkits on thousands of computers without their owners' consent, he would certainly be dragged away in handcuffs even if he was just messing around, even if money wasn't involved at all.

    If you care about freedom and justice in this country, don't sit around idly talking about class action lawsuits. Instead, find a copy of a rootkit'ed CD (buy it from eBay if you must), put it in the drive of your XP box to verify that it does its thing, then take it to your local law enforcement office (preferably FBI) and report the crime. If enough people do this, they just might take it seriously. They JUST MIGHT hold a multinational corporation to the same standards of justice as a preteen kid.

  50. Riteous disgust by sjames · · Score: 1

    As to the Sony/BMG rootkit incident, as long as the punishment for getting caught in bad corporate behavior is acceptable, expect to see such behavior repeated.

    The penalty need not be administered by law. There are any number of expressions of social outrage that can have bearing on corporate behaviour.

    • Quit buying Sony products, let them know why
    • Quit buying from stores that stock Sony products, Let them know why.
    • Mail Sony a nastygram.
    • Enclose shrink wrapped dog crap for extra impact
    • Set the dog crap on fire in a bag on the steps of their corporate headquarters. (Imagine if just 100 people decided to do that!)

    Unfortunatly, most people wave their fist, swear, then bend over and grab their ankles again.

  51. You missed the point slightly by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Whilst the reintroduction of the constitution IS very dodgy, the fact that the PM has signed it doesn't make it law. He doesn't have that kind of power. It is a declaration of intent. It now has to go through our houses of parliament and be ratified by the democratic rules of each counry.

    So you have a long way before you can THINK about having a sensible argument on these matters. You clearly have no idea how the EU works.

  52. Stop Buying Sony by mgenet · · Score: 1

    I hate to be succinct here but...STOP buying anything SONY...Hit them in their pocketbook and let them know you are going to stop buying their products. Letters have more of an impact but e-mails can work as well.

  53. Neither actually. by Nursie · · Score: 1

    I'm saying that I do already contribute to society. Not that it makes me special, but to say people don't contribute whilst looking away from the fact that the fruits of a whole third of my labour go directly into society's coffers is wrong.

    I effectively do community service for a third or more of my working time already.