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BBC iPlayer Welcomes Linux (and Macs)
h4rm0ny writes "After previously limiting their iPlayer to only the Windows platform (as we discussed earlier here and here), the BBC's content is now available to UK-based users of Linux and Mac OS X. From their site: 'From today we are pleased to announce that streaming is now available on BBC iPlayer. This means that Windows, Mac and Linux users can stream programs on iPlayer as long as their computer has the latest version of Flash. Another change is that you do not have to register or sign in any more to download programs ...' It seems that the BBC have listened to people who petitioned them for broader support and an open format. Well, Flash isn't exactly open, but its a lot more ubiquitous than Windows Media and Real Player formats."
First post? No I did not RTFA yet. I am in such a rush to make first post which I doubt I will get it. Glas BBC iplayer welcomes Linux though.
For the purposes of just quickly catching up with a programme you've missed, in my (admittedly brief) testing since it went live, it's much more convenient to use the live streaming than have to go through all the fuss and bother of the proper Windows-based download client.
Even if there were a Mac/Linux version available, I think I'd still lean more towards the Flash service for the odd times I need it since the downloadable version will get torpedoed after seven days anyway.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
i use iplayer on windows, and while there are programmes i want to see that aren't in the catelog, i think they've done an awesome job of tv on demand given the current infrastructure of the internet.
I don't know -- I probably won't be using the service anyway, and I'm not a British citizen anyway, so I don't really feel that I have the right to complain, but it still bothers me when public services don't actually make their service free for real. I know I'd be bothered for real if my own government did something like it, at least.
For someone who is on a Linux platform without Flash (x86_64), this is no better than a Windows-only iPlayer. Yes, I know there are (kludgy) wrappers that allow you to set up the Flash plugin in Firefox, or you can run a 32-bit Firefox, but what about platforms with no supported Flash player, such as PPC Linux or ARM Linux? Does this work with libswf or Gnash? What about Solaris users or BeOS users? Is their TV license money not good enough to be able to access this programming?
Until they're using open technology, this is a hollow gesture to remove the political and social pressure on them. I just hope that the people who really care don't give up their campaign to make the BBC be open.
...and does
mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile $outfile.ra $thestream
rip the stream like what the Real stream can be ripped? (Yes I'm talking radio, it's Radio Four Boy here and without being able to rip I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue, as I've been doing for the last few years, having migrated from the Mark II Compact Cassette Tape that worked so well throughout the 80s and 90s, life ain't gonna be worth living.) Samantha agrees - the wow and flutter of older technology is a real turn-off, although she does enjoy flicking through some favourite flash videos.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
kudos to the BBC.
Flash may not be open or perfect - but there are enough cross platform implementations to make it nearly ubiquitous. Given the choice between windows DRMware or Flash I would of made the same choice any day of the week. I am linux only at home, so I'm happy about this.
I think that this will be a lot more popular with everyone, not just Linux/Mac users. I haven't tried it myself (being a Linux geek), but by all accounts the iPlayer is a PITA. I suspect that in a couple of years time the iPlayer will be quietly dropped due to lack of interest leaving just the Flash player.
hmmm very different to their previous attitude as evidenced here
http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/content/view/80/55/
This is *not* the BBC making iPlayer available for non-Windows platforms. They are only providing a *streaming* service, instead of the ability to download programs, which is what they are using DRM for.
I have a BBC Master 512k - that is a _BBC_ Master 512k. And -I- cannot watch these _BBC_ shows on my _BBC_ computer... I can download the file just fine using the 2400 modem, but then I can't play it back! They should support open content such as MPEG1 so that everybody should be able to view the content!
Yes, this is sarcasm. There's going to be some place where they have to draw the line, and currently that line lays with whatever support Flash (sorry to hear the FLOSS coders haven't gotten to 64bit yet for Flash - maybe if somebody paid them to do the work, I wonder) and without any registration needs (which is funny, because now every British license payer is paying for Ngomo over there in Nigeria watching that show. Awesome!)... which is a line drawn quite a bit further than I would have expected, myself.
in the end game, the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in.
/.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles;
some 'races' we'll wish we lost;
for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it?
we're intending for the nazis to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather'.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying
meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continues on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US;
gov. bush denies health care for the little ones
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html
whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html
all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven
whilst (yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece
still making his views known worldwide, whilst many of US keep yOUR heads firmly lodged up yOUR infactdead.asp(s) hoping (against overwhelming information to the contrary) that the party LIEn scriptdead pr ?firm? fairytail hypenosys scenario will never end.
for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available after the big flash occurs.
'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable.
consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?
mplayer already supports dirac which makes the choice of flv a little strange. None the less, cheers.
...you can't have "more ubiquitous" or "less ubiquitous" because ubiquitous means "present everywhere" -- it actually derives from the Latin for "everywhere":
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ubiquitous
Hence something is either ubiquitous or not -- there are no gradations of ubiquity.
Try "more widespread" instead of "more ubiquitous"...
Quit with the bullshit formats and half assed attempts. If you are really that desperate to protect your precious from the Evil consumers then get it on iTunes and be done with it. I am sick of having to go to random websites and having to use the half-assed players you guys think are acceptable.
If you must have DRM in it, then have your crap in iTunes. if you are one of the few smart companies and dont care about DRM, then a podcast with a format that plays on an iPod will do nicely.
This will get the largest possible market for your video. and 320X240 is acceptable on a ipod and not desired o be traded by pirates (yarr! It's low res, off to greener lands me matyes! yarr!)
As a consumer that is interested in actually watching TV the way it should be here in 2007/2008 I dont want your website, I want it in a way I can download it and play it on my ipod or phone, not your crappy website.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Lets say I want to watch the World famous "Panorama" documentary from Istanbul.
"Sorry, this programme is only available to play in the UK (Why?)"
(yes, Why!?! indeed)
Explanation
"The BBC uses Geo-IP technology to identify where your are based on the location of your internet service provider (ISP). This ensures that only internet users in the UK can enjoy programmes on BBC iPlayer."
(Yes, make sure the people who can watch them with regular UHF TV set can pay for them!)
Further explanation:
"Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer is only available to users in the UK. However, BBC Worldwide is working on an international version, which we will make available as soon as possible."
This is the usual MPAA/RIAA bullshit which you see all the time as a foreigner. The issue is: Content BELONGS to BBC, not a MPAA Hollywood movie company.
Are they (same gang pushed MS WMV) looking for a proof that BBC iPlayer Multiplatform is not needed and is a failure? Did Panorama producer call BBC in panic saying "Disable it to entire planet, I want them to download free torrents from pirate sites instead!" ?
It seems BBC is so mad about the feedback they got from their actual potential customers when they tried to pull a Windows Media Trick. Or... They -as many companies- see foreigners as potential thieves who will post torrent of their PAID CONTENT to Pirate sites.
It's not a gift horse. Access is restricted (at least in theory) to UK citizens, who have already paid for this service through their TV licence fees.
So now instead of being able to download and watch programs later or offline, you now can only use flash streaming. Thanks.
I wasn't about to install kontiki based software on any of my machines, even the ones with Windows on them.
Flash will suit me fine. Almost every device I have can play it in some form (except the iphone, but hopefully that's coming one day).
Many people in the UK are subject to transfer limits, and certain periods of the day when they can transfer as much as they like without this contributing to their quota. Example: I am limited to 20GB of transfers each month, but can download without restriction between midnight and 8am. With the Windows client, it is (relatively) easy to set up a schedule to start and stop the program at the appropriate times. With the streaming content, it is much more of a pain.
Just one reason amongst many why I hope this is not the end of the BBC's plan to open up the iPlayer content to other platforms, although I expect that it probably is.
Don't download it - that'll stick it to them for suggesting that there's no demand for Linux.
Of course, it will also prove their point.
Ok, what about we download the Windows version instead. Wait, no that won't work either.
I've got, go to ITV and download old episodes of Corrie. Yea! I'm off to the Rover's for a pint.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Why on earth BBC makes a system to be used from UK only ?!
"Can I download programmes from outside the UK?
The BBC uses Geo-IP technology to identify where your are based on the location of your internet service provider (ISP). This ensures that only internet users in the UK can enjoy programmes on BBC iPlayer.
If you download a programme to your laptop or a portable hard drive, you can watch this wherever you are in the world. However, you will only be able to download new programmes once you return to the UK.
Why do I need to be in the UK to use BBC iPlayer?
Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer is only available to users in the UK. However, BBC Worldwide is working on an international version, which we will make available as soon as possible."
Anyone notice that the volume control goes up to 11?
:p
That's for watching TV really loud
There is no way possible to download Flash Internet videos.
And there are especially no Firefox plugins to download them with one easy click.
the BBC isn't free. I (as an owner of a piece of equipment capable of receiving the BBC), have to pay a license fee each year (whether I actually decide to watch it or not).
Now personally I'm more than happy to pay, but it does mean it can't just be broadcast free to anybody on the planet with an internet connection.
"This means that Windows, Mac and Linux users can stream programs on iPlayer as long as their computer has the latest version of Flash."
So, we're just waiting on Adobe to release Flash for Linux/x86-64, Linux/PPC, Linux/Alpha, Linux/Sparc, Linux/ARM, etc...
*tumbleweed rolls by...*
Yeah, right. Thought so.
After all, it's not like there aren't truly cross-platform streaming formats out there. Oh no, wait, there are!
Aaaaaarrrghhhhh!!!!
AND STOP SAYING "LINUX" WHEN YOU MEAN LINUX/X86-32 . Linux is *so* much more than Linux/x86-32.
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Which allows me to watch what I want, when I want using xbmc on my TV thank-you-very-much.
I really don't get why the BBC think I would want to stream to my Mac, when I can already download whatever I want and watch it on the Mac, the TV, the iPod or wherever. OK, most people probably don't realise this yet but this is the technology they are competing with in my world.
And if I want to keep the episode of Space Pirates or some film which has been aired on terrestrial TV for the kids to watch at some point in the future, I don't want the BBC deciding that I've kept hold of it for more than 7 days and therefore they have the right to delete it from my hard drive. This is a step back from what I was able to do (and almost everyone did) using a VCR.
TODO: insert amusing, apt and clever quip here. L8r.
Please enlighten me if I'm wrong but I thought the case with flash was the same as with PDF. Adobe's viewer is closed source but the file format specification is open and can thus be implemented by open source projects, such as this: http://f4l.sourceforge.net/
So what exactly prevents those who insist on an open source app from writing one? I can understand it when people complain about specs being closed and thus making it hard to write a compatible implementation but if the specs are open, it is reasonable to say that if you want it, you write it.
German ZDF [1] uses flash only for its front page due to ill-advised web design and utilizes windows media player, quicktime or vlc browser plugins for video content. so much for actual consumer friendly solutions.
[1] http://mediathek.zdf.de/
For example, German ZDF [1] uses flash only for its front page (due to ill-advised web design) and utilizes windows media player, quicktime or vlc browser plugins for video content. so much for actual solution (one guy of the streaming company even said they would probably also offer theora the moment software patents are legal in europe).
[1] http://mediathek.zdf.de/
The problematic part is that flash won't run on anything but an Intel-compatible processor, and the "proprietary" nature of flash makes sure that no-one else can adapt flash for another kind of machine. Not everybody have or wish to use an intel PC, as ubiquitous as it may be.
sudo apt-get install swfdec-mozilla
:-)
works on ppc and amd64 with sparc64 coming soon
Is there anything in any user agreement that prohibits me renting a server in the UK, running their "UK only" iPlayer there, and retransmitting the stream over the Net to another server outside the UK for rebroadcast?
Maybe a copyright? Under UK law, don't I have a protected ability to retransmit content from one place to another for my personal consumption, the way I do in US law (if not always in US courts)?
--
make install -not war
Yes you can run it on some Linux systems, but under the terms of the EULA many are illegal.
Anyone else notice the requirment to use "Windows XP Tablet PC Edition" on Tablets, and "Windows XP Media Center Edition" on Media Centres? This is not in the least bit welcoming Linux and Mac. Yes the BBC have moved away from technical restrictions for locking out non-Windows systems. But they have now moved onto legal restrictions buried in EULAs. There is no technical reason why Flash wouldn't work on a Linux Media Centre but the BBC sought out a product that provides them the legal power to lock out Linux users.
Absolutely disgusting in my view. And what is worse the BBC Trust let them get away with it. Apparently here in the UK we don't possess competition law, even though according to OPSI we do have some, not sure if it has ever been used though.
Except it shits a brick on YouTube and every other Flash animation I throw at it in x86_64, despite the fact that the libswf people claim it works on YouTube. No, it doesn't, at least not in the Debian packages on x86_64, and yes, I have filed a bug, and no, for the past eight or so months, this hasn't been fixed.
Is that the name of some Brit super hero?
I have that. But it's not "the latest version of flash", or 100% fully compatible with it. Yet.
Yes, the developers are doing great work, and I have a lot of respect for them, and I couldn't ask for anything more from them given the hurdles and reverse-engineering they're having to surmount. But if the BBC is requiring "the latest version of Flash" then swfdec (or Gnash) just can't cut it at this time.
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Your comment implies they want to reach the largest possible market.
They don't. They only want to make this content available to the people who own the corporation (namely the licence payers). Making it available to anyone will, apparently, cannibalize their overseas markets.
The BBC in the UK doesn't work like the commercial broadcasters.
There are all kinds of things they could do. And they certainly didn't seem to be opposed to people downloading things.
There are mpeg2 decoders everywhere -- it's just about as ubiquitous as Flash. And there's no reason they can't do both.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
LOL, Shitslotters crack me up. They are perfectly happy with the proprietary Flash, but outraged (OUTRAGED!!!!!!) at anyone using a Microsoft format. Despite the fact that they are less than 1% of the BBC's total traffic.
Guess FOSSies are perfectly happy to push their values to the side as long as they get pet on the head. Just like all good little conservative "values voters".
Stay the course, FOSSies!!
From the Wikipedia page:
In other words, not like PDF at all.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Until they're using open technology, this is a hollow gesture to remove the political and social pressure on them. I just hope that the people who really care don't give up their campaign to make the BBC be open.
Oh, please. Your post is complaining about something imperfect, giving no credit for the fact that it is still very much better than the previous version for most people.
This version will allow many users on probably the second and third most popular platforms to view content they otherwise couldn't view at all. It will allow many people using Windows to access the content much more easily and without having to install dubious P2P software with very dubious conditions attached on their PCs (which is the reason that despite being a Windows user and a licence fee payer, I declined to use the previous incarnation of iPlayer when I missed a recording).
The fact that this is not a huge step forward for absolutely everyone who pays the licence fee does not mean it shouldn't be done just to benefit the 99+% of licence fee payers who would see an improvement. Frankly, there isn't much the BBC does that would be of interest to anything like such a high proportion of licence fee payers, and I'm impressed that they appeared to have listened to the criticism and done something reasonable and constructive about it.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Nigel: You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. Youre on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder.
DiBergi: Why dont you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?
(small pause)
Nigel: These go to 11.
The Gentoo package works okayish (about 80% of the time) on AMD64 in Konqueror, for both iPlayer and YouTube. Enough for the few times I need it. Doesn't help you on Debian however (though it probably means that it's a problem with the Debian package rather than with libswf itself).
I'm a number, not a free man!
This one can.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I am not a turkey farmer.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
No it doesn't. Repeat after me: "Nothing rips flash streams or real streams or any other stream".
At this rate, you'll be pointing out that you can just download the shows off IRC instead of going through the hassle of ripping. Remember, ripping streams is impossible and IRC doesn't exist.
The resolution seems to be about 500*300. If it was on my TV, it'd fill about a quarter of the screen. On my PC, it's about 10%. When the flash window is maximised, all sorts of horrible artefacts are visible.
This sort of poor picture quality is forgiveable if you're watching "woman falls down hole" on Youtube, but this is supposed to be proper telly, isn't it?
Jolly good show, BBC. But why the "UK residents" limitation? There are probably millions of British expats in the world, and millions of others who would like to use the Beeb's services.
Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
So I tested it out. Tried two programmes, both stopped streaming after going 2/3 of the way through and refused to start again. It looks nice and all, but I'm going to give it a while before I actually try watching anything on it.
How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
The volume control goes up to 11. Brilliant. :)
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, available from Packt Publishing.
Then, explain what this extension, Orbit Downloader, etc. do?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Stop saying "Linux/x86-32" when you mean "GNU Linux/x86-32" !
*woosh*
we UK-ers have to have a government license to legally watch TV or listen to the radio!
We can listen to the radio all we like, it's just the TV part we need the license for. I phoned them and asked them to confirm this and they were quite specific.
Stick Men
VLC.
In actual fact, players for Real's format are available on quite a few platforms, and large parts have been open sourced. There's no real reason that the BBC could not have taken Real's source code and gone to town.
Xiph.org's Ogg Theora. There's your goddamn answer closed source zealots!
http://www.theora.org/
Back in they day (over 10 years ago) when things were simpler, there was an open standard for video called MPEG. There were several Free, free and closed, pay mpeg players and the files had a .mpg or .mpeg extension.
Many of the *cough* specialist *cough* image/video sites in those days used it almost exclusively, and even on Linux back in 1996 one was not left out.
So what went wrong?
Stick Men
We tend to think it's fair exchange for the fantastic programmes they've given us over the years, though, not least Blake's 7 of course ;)
And what if their programming goes to crap? What if you think it's that way now?
Sounds like 'tyranny of the majority' to me. Best to leave this to private industry where losers can be punished in the market.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Why not use a normal standard format? Then we won't need Flash.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Apparently it must disable the user's humor&sarcasm detector.
Assuming Orbit Downloader does not filter out Slashdot post scores, you could try looking back in the thread for "Score: 5 Funny". And then check out that post's parent post to determine why it was funny.
OK, firstly, as far as I know the BBC was under no obligation to make it's programs available to anyone over the internet. Were they not starting this off their own back?
Secondly, how many projects of this scale, that provide a public service nation-wide, were 100% effective providing 100% coverage from the outset? I can't think of any.
If people want to complain about something then complain about the poor coverage of Digital Freeview in the UK, where two houses a mere 5 metres apart can get completely different reception. What about broadband coverage? There are still areas in the UK that are lucky to get reliable dialup let alone a speedy 512K ADSL connection. Mobile phone coverage is another example, they expect you to use their approved hardware on their network, charge you for it and don't give any guarantees of coverage or signal strength. In my house two identical handsets, on two different networks receive full signal on one and low to none on the other.
I assume someone is going to say "Ah, but the BBC is a public company owned by the people". Yeah, and you could say that if I had shares in the mobile phone company then I'd own a small portion of it so they had an obligation to provide me with a better service too.
Considering this is a unique situation and this is the first attempt of such an ambitious service I think they're (BBC) doing well.
To the people who complain because they have to go out of their way to install s/w and services on their *nix systems: what do you expect? You've already gone out of your way by loading your chosen OS onto your machine because I'd be willing to bet you didn't buy it from a shop with BeOS (or whatever) loaded. If you're using a system that isn't directly supported then you should have the knowledge to either sort it out yourself or find out how to sort it out, otherwise how have you lasted so long using your chosen OS? If you find it too much of a struggle and your system doesn't meet your requirements then it's time to change to a system that does what you want/need of it.
And last of all: there are several web sites and services based in the USA that not only say for US citizens only but actively block connections from outside. This goes for radio, music downloads, video streaming etc, services that are free to people in the USA. So why should the BBC make content, that is not part of it's world-wide service, available to people outside of the UK? If you're an ex-UK resident living abroad then tough, you moved, if TV is that important to you then move back to the UK.
I'll get down off my soap box now :>
But the boot process is so long I just gave up.
So, I guess I'll use my son's Mac Mini to watch it!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I don't always run it. I only run it when needed since it would be a waste of resources if I had it running all the time.
As for your joke, I still don't get it. Please kindly elaborate it for me.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).