Student Given Detention For Using Firefox [UPDATED]

An anonymous reader writes "Several sites are reporting that a student has been given detention for using Firefox to do his classwork. No, really. The student was in class, working on an assignment that necessitated using a browser. The teacher instructed him to stop using Firefox and to do his classwork, to which the student responded that he was doing his classwork using a 'better' browser (it is unclear whether the computer was the student's own computer or not). The clueless teacher (who called the rogue program 'Firefox.exe') ordered him to detention." Update: 12/17 20:09 by SM One of the school officials was nice enough to contact us and let us know this is a hoax. If you are planning on calling the school please refrain from doing so, I'm sure they have had enough excitement for one day.

Comments

OSS is evil.

[jez9999]

The teacher was right. We have to stop this communism right here, right now!

Re:OSS is evil.

[ArcherB]

The teacher was right.

Well, the teacher was right... and wrong.

First, the teacher was wrong for not knowing what FireFox (FoxFire) is. Any teacher with a computer in the classroom should have AT LEAST that level of knowledge.

Second, the teacher was right in assigning detention. The teacher is in charge and has the right to tell the students what they can and can't run on school computers. If a student is running an application and the teacher tells the student to close it, the student needs to close it, period, end of story. It's no different in the real world. If an IT director tells you shut down Cain&Able, you can get fired if you don't. It doesn't matter that the IT director doesn't know what Cain&Able is.

Re:OSS is evil.

[Archangel Michael]

I work in School District IT, and can assure you that teachers decide what is in the classrooms, not IT. If the Teachers want something, IT is charged with making it happen.

However, teachers aren't absolute in their dictations, as IT is able to make recommendations, and express concerns (support, helpdesk resposibility etc) .

Re:OSS is evil.

[morgan_greywolf]

What IT people? Maybe a University has an IT person, but most K-12 institutions in the U.S. have no dedicated IT person. Usually the "IT person" is just a teacher very knowledgeable about computers -- and is usually one of the teachers teaching computer programming classes. There's usually not a lot of formal IT policies, either. But I do know one thing -- the teacher, as a member of the faculty, is a representative of the school. If it was indeed a school-owned computer, the teacher has every right to order the student to run this or that or not run this or that on the school computer.

And the TFA is unclear about whether this was a student-owned computer or a school computer.

Re:OSS is evil.

[kdemetter]

If Firefox was installed on the school computers , then i see no reason not to use it .
Unless the teachers is completely blind , he can see the web page the student is looking at , and can judge from that wether or not he is doing his work .

This is like a teacher telling you to copy every file in a folder , and because he only knows how to do that by right click-copy-paste , you get detention for using Ctrl-A - Ctrl-C - Ctrl-V .

It's a silly example , but it's just the same .

Re:OSS is evil.

[elrous0]

Exactly, schools aren't there to teach creativity, they're supposed to teach conformity and acceptance. And I damn sure want to keep it that way because I'm creative, I like my job security, and I need schools to churn out people to fix my plumbing so I don't have to crawl around under my house. I would hope my fellow /.ers would feel the same.

Re:OSS is evil.

[gt_mattex]

This entire story is possibly based on erroneous information.

http://www.bigspring.k12.pa.us/news.php?action=view_article&article_id=2130

Re:OSS is evil.

[evilRhino]

Your link's message sounds like damage control PR to me.

Re:OSS is evil.

[kdemetter]

I don't buy it either .

Re:OSS is evil.

[arth1]

Indeed. It appears that the teacher here is the victim.
Even before seeing this statement from the school district, I believed this to be the case, due to most of the language being in correct English, apart from a few words and phrases with grammatical errors -- and those being the ones describing the teacher's assessment and actions.

If this being a fraud is indeed the case, I expect that the person who altered the detention letter gets expelled permanently, or, if not a student, charged with fraud and impersonation.

Re:OSS is evil.

[jedidiah]

Nothing in that statement really contradicts the original story.

Of course the letter was altered. It was redacted.

I am not even sure that this statement could be considered a claim
that the original story was a hoax. At best it could be a somewhat
carefully crafted CYA statement that is meant to be taken as a
claim that the original story was a hoax.

Re:OSS is evil.

[jedidiah]

Howabout:

        This letter circulating on the internet is a fraud. No one at this
school has been given detention for insubordination related to the use
of an alternate web browser.

        Be clear. Get to the point. Act like you're someone who teaches
other people how to communicate.

        My high school rhetoric teacher would use this in his "introduction
to rhetoric in advertising".

Re:OSS is evil.

[jedidiah]

Also, you can always get a different boss. It can be hard but it can be done.

You are not required by law to have a boss or a (particular) employer.

High School students are effectively prisoners. They are trapped there
as a matter of law and not allowed to leave or not attend.

Re:OSS is evil.

[Lumpy]

I also work in school IT I support 5 schools and I can assure you that Teachers, specifically Computer class teachers know very little about computers and are typically some of the wierdest people I know.

They freak out easily, think that a broken off USB port on the back of a computer is easily fixed by going to radio-shack and cant understand why you refuse to give them administrator rights after they hosed the entire fleet of 45 classroom Pc's by loading a new program purchased without your input that freaks out when it sees multiple copies running on the network and is not a network version. (they saved money and bought 45 copies of the single user version and not 1 copy and 45 licenses of the network version.)

The teachers you need to keep FAR, FAR away from computers and teaching computers is typically the Computer class teacher.

Re:OSS is evil.

[FireFury03]

If every kid comes out of school creative and motivated to do great things, where are we going to get people to do all the shit jobs that no one wants to do?

Prison?

No, we can't do that - it would be against the murderer's human rights to put him to work in a shitty job...

Re:OSS is evil.

[hedwards]

They updated the story since I posted. Apparently it was a hoax.

But that aside, if a student were given detention for using firefox that is an entirely different thing than being given detention for skirting the firewall policies of a school.

Re:OSS is evil.

[MightyYar]

I'm all for it if it is a vocational school. Otherwise, let them get their serious computer experience in college or trade school (where the hardware and software will only be 2-4 years away from the real world instead of 5-17 years). Or at the very least, let the kids wait until high school, when they have to start writing serious papers and such. A high schooler needs to know how to use a word processor for the same reason that they needed typing 30 years ago, and they need to know how to use the web for research in the same way that they learned about the reference section 20 years ago, but otherwise a kid is better off with his art, music, and phys-ed.

Re:OSS is evil.

[Eivind]

"\n" is *defined* to be newline.

"\n" will be one thing on unix, another on Windows, just like endl.

Using the equivalent of \cr\lf would have the problems you mention and thus be worthy of a loss of points.

detention for disobedience

[yagu]

It appears the infraction was probably closer to being for disobeying the teacher than for using Firefox. While it exposes an interesting deficiency in the general knowledge of educators about browser technology, it isn't necessarily their specialty. (We don't know if this was some proxy of a teacher who was unaware of options for browsers.)

Without any more information, this is merely a potential story... I wouldn't bother sending e-mails to the school. You may want to consider first:

• did this student have a history of infractions?
• was the student explaining his choice as a better browser as a canard?
• was the assignment specifically geared toward, or requiring of IE?
• was the firefox browser installed as an option and available, or,
• did the student download and install without authorization?

Re:detention for disobedience

[Anonymous Coward]

No surprise here, US schools have become so much about teaching to the test that kids are being taught not to think, but just blindly, mindlessly obey. No wonder there haven't been any sound leaders coming from the US this generation... because no one is learning how to think for themselves, think critically, and do what is right even when it conflicts with doing what you're told. Even Hollywood is in on it - try watching Dead Poet's Society sometime...

Re:detention for disobedience

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

This is an apology for authoritarianism - assuming innocence on the part of authority, and granting benefits of doubt to their actions while also itemising possible hypothitical infractions by the accused.

That is how fascism is apologised.

Re:detention for disobedience

[LWATCDR]

You really need to stop trying to be reasonable.
The Student was told twice to close Firefox and use IE.
He should have just fired up IE.

Re:detention for disobedience

[Alastor187]

I think your points are valid, but since teachers aren't experts on web browsing technology should they just close their mind to anything they don't understand? The bigger question I am asking is, why cannot teachers learn from students everyone once a while? So maybe for the next assignment students could be given the option of using IE or Firefox depending on their comfort level.

Re:detention for disobedience

[Hes Nikke]

this is slashdot, we don't use logic here. for that you need to go to.... um... not the internet!

Re:detention for disobedience

[Archangel Michael]

I work at a school district in IT, and I can assure you that some (too many) teachers can barely teach, let alone manage to run a classroom with computers.

I would love to require all teachers who want to use computers have to attend a class on computers in the classroom by someone like me who can explain the technology and what it can do (and not do) in the classroom.

However, I can equally assure you that the Teacher's Union is so high on itself that it wouldn't allow having a non-teacher teaching anything, let alone other teachers. There is this underlying current of elitism in many teachers.

Suffice it to say, I doubt that 85% of the teachers using computers in the classroom know anything more than "Click the Start Menu" type instruction, and if it isn't Microsoft ________ it isn't used. Period. Firefox isn't Microsoft, so it isn't used, and teachers don't know about it.

I don't know if I should blame the teachers or not. However, this teacher was running the classroom properly. The student had no right to change the instruction of the teacher (even if the student was correct). I know that managing a classroom of people is hard enough without having some rogue student thinking they know better. Even if Firefox is a better browser (it is), that doesn't give the student the right to vary from the instruction (use IE).

One last thing, the last thing I want on computers I manage is students downloading and installing whatever programs they think they want onto computers. If they want to use a program they need to request it through the proper channels. If I caught a student installing software on a computer without permission, I'd recommend they be expelled, regardless of what they were installing. Its not their computer.

Re:detention for disobedience

[lazarus corporation]

these are all possibilities, but since none of these are mentioned in the teacher's letter linked to in TFA then we can dismiss them.

If the kid had a history of infractions then the teacher should have mentioned it in the letter. Likewise if the kid was being a smart-arse in his explanation the teacher should have (and would have) mentioned it. And the same applies to the other 3 points you made.

However the teacher made none of these points in his letter - judging by the teacher's side of the argument (given in the letter) the teacher just didn't know what he was talking about.

Re:detention for disobedience

[ArcherB]

his is an apology for authoritarianism - assuming innocence on the part of authority, and granting benefits of doubt to their actions while also itemising possible hypothitical infractions by the accused.

Uh, no. I expect Authority to be... well, in charge. Imagine that. Should the students be allowed to install and run anything they want on school computers? Can you do that at YOUR job?

That is how fascism is apologised.

Blow it out your ass. Just because someone is in charge, in this case a teacher in charge of the classroom, doesn't mean that the school is fascist.

Re:detention for disobedience

[Sciros]

The teacher was under the impression that the student was not doing his work. So the request to 'close the program and resume work' was, well, nonsense. I'm not going to bother entertaining the idea of this being a 'reasonable' request, because the reasoning behind it was faulty to begin with. With this in mind, and with regards to your comment, should there be no issue taken up with teachers enforcing 'unreasonable' requests?

The whole 'punish first, investigate later' mentality of some teachers is the problem here. I have met many of the sort, and they are NOT among the better educators I know.

Your bullet list being what it is, I wonder whether you read the detention letter in the first place.

Re:detention for disobedience

[arose]

Would you say the same if the teacher had ordered to use a fountain pen instead of a ball point?

Re:detention for disobedience

[Archangel Michael]

And you sir, are an apologetic for anarchy - assuming the guilt on the part of the authority. The facts of the case are not in dispute, the student refused to do what the teacher said, which was a reasonable request. The students don't run the classroom, the teachers do (or are supposed to).

Re:detention for disobedience

[MarcoG42]

If I caught a student installing software on a computer without permission, I'd recommend they be expelled, regardless of what they were installing. If I caught you changing lanes without using your turn signal I'd recommend having your driving privileges revoked for life, regardless of the fact that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Re:detention for disobedience

[pongo000]

I work at a school district in IT, and I can assure you that some (too many) teachers can barely teach, let alone manage to run a classroom with computers.

I work at a school district as a math teacher. I also have several years of experience in IT industry, and have a master's degree in CS. I can assure you that *most* of our IT people know little to nothing about anything that doesn't involve Microsoft or Novell. Which means I just deal with IT problems myself, because I can usually *not* count on getting any level of help beyond the simple scripted responses one gets when they e-mail technical support.

Why do I bring this up? Because this sword you swing cuts both ways: I'm *definitely* not one of the teachers you describe, and *you* definitely don't sound like one of the IT people I describe. I think it's fair to say that not many teachers *or* school district IT employees are what you and I would describe as "computer literate beyond the most basic level."

BTW, your comment about installing software leads me to believe that this student may have also violated an AUP that specifically prohibits the installation of programs other than those endoresed by the school district. Regardless of how one reads "installation," it's a safe bet that no one would argue that copying an .exe to a Windows drive, even if it does not access the registry, constitutes "installation."

Re:detention for disobedience

[jedidiah]

At least it shows the boy can think for himself and solve his own problems if necessary.

Odd are, not using Firefox would leave him open to all sorts of BS on the web. This is why many of us use it in our corporate lives despite corporate policies to the contrary. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about people with so much time on their hands (like teachers) that we have to worry about it.

He was just foolish for not pretending to be cowed.

Re:detention for disobedience

[MBCook]

Yes. It's a stupid rule, but it's the rule. He can talk to someone (like the principal) about it during another time. You can't just be a scofflaw.

Re: detention for disobedience

[onecheapgeek]

Portable Firefox still sticks a directory in %homedir%\Application Data. That is writing to the hard drive, in a location that even a non-admin has full control over.

Re:detention for disobedience

[Selfbain]

Let me get this straight... If a student installs something you don't want him to, you'll try and ruin his life in exchange... Ever heard of detention?

Re:detention for disobedience

[plague3106]

I'm guessing you have a dislike of teachers, and probably authority in general and are bringing it in to an issue completely seperate from what you are talking about.

There is much reason to dislike authority, especially when authority is exercised when it shouldn't be, over trivial things. I'm more distrubed by people that blindly bow to authority of them than anyone who questions it. Its our duty as citizens of this nation to always question authority, and if we find said authority over-reaching, to ignore it or remove it.

Re:detention for disobedience

[syntaxeater]

Absolutely. In fact, I remember kids in my class getting in trouble quite often for using mechanical pencils to take scantrons. Seems dumb enough, but like many other people here have said - a lot of the facts were omitted for sensationalism. It could very well be that the school's criteria required IE.

Re:detention for disobedience

[dwandy]

managing a classroom of people is hard enough without having some rogue student thinking

ok, I know I'm dropping vital words to re-context your quote, but this is what's wrong with education today.

In a world where every fact is just a click on the InterTube(tm) away, we don't need kids who have memorized facts without meaning. We need to teach critical thinking and allow the kids to explore the world and find their own path. And sometimes that means they'll find something that the teacher isn't aware of. This kind of behaviour needs to be encouraged, not stifled with detention.

We're so busy protecting our precious IP, while we stifle the very people who we count on to produce tomorrows innovations.

Re:detention for disobedience

[Kevin Stevens]

I agree and just want to chime in.

Until I hear the whole story, including this kid's background, I would not pass judgment on the teacher or the school. This sounds eerily like the stories some kids used to tell along the lines of "I got detention just for sneezing!" which on the surface sounds like some idiot power-crazed teacher wronging a well meaning student. Then you get the back story, he was acting up in class, and being asked to control himself several times, then lets out an over-exaggerated (even if it was a naturally reflexive) sneeze intended to get more attention, which is the last straw to the teacher who then writes him up. But his version of the story is "all I did was sneeze, and I got detention!" which one or two of his buddies will corroborate, and that is what spreads around.

Somehow, it was always the disruptive students with histories of disruption that somehow ended up the victim of such events. I have a feeling this kid circumvented IT policies probably not for the first time, installed Firefox, showed off his 1337 skills to the class, who then caused a distraction by saying "ooh cool" followed up by "can you show me how to do that?!", the teacher then found out, and then said "close that and use IE" to which the student did not comply, probably at least twice, while basking in his badassness and attention from his classmates, then the fed-up teacher finally gave him detention.

Re:detention for disobedience

[mr_matticus]

That's a happy sound bite, but it's utterly moronic here.

This isn't some stand against authority. It's not a principled anything. It's a kid who was given an instruction by someone entitled to do so, and who failed to comply. That's the end of it. It doesn't matter if it's arbitrary that Firefox isn't permitted on the machines. It's not the student's decision to make.

There is no injustice here. This "defy authority" crap is juvenile and pompously self-righteous, but that's par for the course for Slashdot.

If you're asked to print a memo on green paper, print the damn thing on green paper. There is no ground to be taken by questioning the decision. Your adolescent protest notwithstanding, society is hierarchical by design. Deal with it or use it to your advantage, but quit bitching.

Re:detention for disobedience

[paeanblack]

One last thing, the last thing I want on computers I manage is students downloading and installing whatever programs they think they want onto computers. If they want to use a program they need to request it through the proper channels. If I caught a student installing software on a computer without permission, I'd recommend they be expelled, regardless of what they were installing. Its not their computer.

Would you recommend expulsion for a student that brought in some insect to mount on a slide to look at under a microscope? It is, after all, not their equipment to play with as they see fit.

High school lab computers are there for learning and exploration. If you have them locked down like a supermarket checkout kiosk or bank teller terminal, you may as well not have a lab in the first place.

As an IT admin, it's your job to make sure the computers you administer are configured for the role they serve. In this case, it's your job to make sure the students cannot intentionally or inadvertently interfere with the education of other students. Specifically, students should not be able to:
-Disable the machine beyond a point from which it easily restored to a working state by a teacher or other students
-Degrade the network performance to a point that affects other school activities
-Put the school in legal jeopardy

A competent administrator can accomplish all of the above without locking the machine down so far that it is about as educational as a doorstop. Draconian AUPs with dismissal upon first infraction are appropriate in many places, but certainly not in a school.

Re:detention for disobedience

[WilliamX]

Uh, no. It doens't show that the kid can think for himself and solve his own problems. If he could do those things, he would have complied with the teachers command in situ and then later found time to talk to the teacher when it would not be disruptive to the classroom and made his case. Then the teacher would have more information on which to base their decision and could seek guidance from those in the school or district or can be trusted to provide advice to the teacher on these types of situations.

THAT would have been a great way of showing good problem solving skills. Disobeying during class, just because he didn't see a valid reason for the instruction, only shows that he has no respect for authority, and no sense of how to properly deal with problems and difficult situations.

Yes, I know this whole story is a hoax, but had it been real, the detention would have certainly been valid, and the kid would have hopefully learned a very very important lesson about how to handle those types of situations not only in the rest of his academic life, but in his "real" life as well.

Ah.

[Stanistani]

I think we can all safely jump to conclusions here and make some truly insane comments - GO!

Re:Ah.

[Praedon]

Clearly this teacher is the sister of the cousin of the butcher of the brother of the nephew of the aunt of the brother of the friend of the half brother of the sister-in-law of the cousin of the friend of the friend of Bill Gates....

Well, naturally

[timster]

Our schools are supposed to teach discipline, which most people think means following the rules. As Stephen Colbert says, if the rules were logical then they wouldn't be learning respect for the rules, they'd be learning logic.

Re:Well, naturally

[ZeroFactorial]

Absolutely. We should teach or children to blindly respect the rules, even when those rules are illogical.

Yay for communism.

</sarcasm>

Some things never change

[ComaVN]

Haha, reminds me of how I got yelled at by an irate "computer-science" teacher ages ago, for breaking a monitor (ie. turning it off with the big red power button on the front)

Re:Some things never change

[nahdude812]

FYI, high school computer science teacher requirements are completely off-base, at least in my state (Pennsylvania). I looked into becoming a high school comp sci teacher, and the requirement was a degree in business. I kid you not. Not "a degree in business or a degree in computer science," but you MUST have a degree in business, and there are no other requirements (other of course than the standard educational stuff of getting certificates and whatnot, which are common to all subjects).

To convert my Comp Sci degree, it would have required 2.5 years of education. So the result is that most public school computer teachers have no real computer experience other than maybe using Word / Excel. Technically-minded people who want to teach computers don't want to put 4 years into a business degree (or add 2+ years to their CS degree), and people who got a degree to teach business don't tend to want to teach computers, or else don't tend to be very good at it.

at least not opera

[Soleen]

I wonder would he get an A from music teacher for using Oepra?

so what?

[abigsmurf]

He was told to use IE, didn't, teacher noticed, told him to use firefox, he mouthed off back to the teacher. Got punished. Nothing to see here.

Headline is a bit sensationalist.

Re:so what?

[tannhaus]

Exactly. The issue here wasn't whether Firefox would work or not. The issue here was he was told not to use it and refused to comply.

There really is no difference here between this and a student saying "No, I've decided I'm not going to get on the school bus to go to the field trip. I met this awesome guy in the bathroom of the mall and I'm going with him in his car instead".

Re:so what?

[PhxBlue]

Nothing to see here.

Except maybe why public schools are having such a hard time of it in the first place. A reasonable teacher might have said, "Interesting -- tell me more about it after class, but for now, stick with the other browser." This teacher, in contrast, played a power game and probably did more to undermine his authority in the classroom than reinforce it.

Re:so what?

[dougmc]

And you should always do what you're told, even if it sounds like, or is, not the best option? Baaaa, I will obey, baaaa. Well, that IS what high school is meant to be like. We don't let people think for themselves until at least college.

Re:so what?

[Bloater]

According to the teacher's statement the student was not told to use IE, the student was told to do his work - the student explained that he /was/ doing his work and how it was possible with firefox. The teacher did *not* claim that he/she then explained that the coursework must be done using IE - this is not documented in the explanation of the reason for the detention (and since the student would need a clear instruction of what to do before being able to do it, one would think that this should have been the reason).

It seems like this student still hasn't been told what he's in detention for - you'd expect that to be in his letter home. The letter just says he wasn't doing his work... but he was :/

My old mum gave me my brother's lunchbox once, containing a sandwich filler that made me puke on contact and still does 25 years later. The teacher insisted that my mother could never make an error that would cause such an effect on me (even after I said that the lunchboxes were outwardly identical). 30 seconds later I destroyed four peoples meals and made the classroom stink of vomit for the rest of the day.

Don't just assume that because somebody is getting on in years that they are automatically honourable, super-intelligent, and infinitely wise. There is no statutory cull of wankers at 18 so they go on and get jobs and some of them become teachers.

Some teachers are great, though. I got a pat on the back for wrestling in class, knocking tables over and stuff, because the person I was fighting needed somebody to stand up to him :) Still had to go over to the science building to clean tabletops though :)

Re:so what?

[Tsiangkun]

yes, obey, or rebel and accept the punishment.

Student rebelled. Student got punished.

Have you ever waited at a red traffic light, even though you can see there is no traffic coming ?
Why do you obey that stupid light ?

Baaah, I suspect you too are sheep.

Ignorant Teachers = Problems

[corsec67]

It is a problem when the students know more than the teachers.
It isn't clear if this is a "computer class", in which case this is really bad because teachers should know more than the students in the area they are teaching in.

There is much more leeway for an English teacher to not know how to do integrations/derivations, for example. I don't know if this should extend to stuff the teachers use to teach the class, but it probably should. How can you use something effectively to teach if you don't know how it works?

Re:Ignorant Teachers = Problems

[DrNASA]

No, it's a problem when the student feels like it is necessary to demonstrate in front of the entire class that he knows more than the teacher. "Knowing more in an area" is pretty vague. Do you really expect a flesh and blood teacher to have the sum of all human knowledge at their fingertips? "The stuff they use to teach the class" is also vague. Do you get pissed when the teacher can't turn the projector on? Heck, 75% of ./ is probably employed because of one word: SPECIALIZATION It isn't the teacher's freaking job to know the difference between Firefox and IE (even if it is a computer class that is teaching ANYTHING other than A. web development B. The differences between Firefox and IE Any other course than those two options and the teacher is perfectly fine in not knowing that anything other than IE exists because it DOESN'T MATTER. Were the other kids complaining: "Hey, this site won't render in IE - I'm getting X error"? The teacher has the right and obligation to be in complete control of their environment. The teacher was unfamiliar with Firefox and wanted to kid to close it. Maybe the teacher knew it shouldn't have been installed. Maybe the teacher knew that multiple tabs could aid in cheating or give some other unfair advantage the other kids didn't have being on (crappy) IE. Maybe the teacher knew that IT has Group Policy established that prevents kids from clearing browsing history and cache from IE, but that Firefox wouldn't be limited and wants to make sure that the kid isn't violating web use policy. The fact is - the teacher told him to do something and he refused. Twice.

Report it right

[Borealid]

It's actually funnier the way the teacher DID report it... 'foxfire.exe', not 'firefox.exe' as the /. blurb says.

Student Given Detention For Disobedience

[ergo98]

While Firefox is indeed a great browser, it is a largely irrelevant part of this sage -- kid runs unauthorized application, is told not to, disobeys instructions and talks back.

Boring.

Sidenote - Do the editors or the submitter start off the tags these days? This story came fresh with 4 tags...I thought it waited until "democracy" spoke. Wisdom of the masses et al.

Student's Side.

[bigattichouse]

Having worked in education for many years (and having kids), I guarantee that the student's side omits mention of defiance or cockiness. This of course doesn't excuse the idiot teacher, but I imagine there is more to it than presented by the submittor. It is astounding how innocent and respectful they believe they were after the fact. I imagine the kid wanted to use a better browser, the teacher got miffed at the install, and they both proceeded to behave poorly. Most likely the browser was just a catalyst in the childish behavior of both. And I say this strictly as having been the idiot teacher.

Oh no, someone got detention for being an ass

[yotto]

I'm sure the student sat the teacher down and explained the pros and cons of Firefox vs IE in a clear and respectful manner, and didn't say "Shut up, hehe, I'm using Firefox. It's better than your crappy IE!"

If you are a jerk to a teacher, you get detention. I knew this when I was in school. When has it failed to be common knowledge?

I'd also like to know if the computer was the student's own or a school one. If it's a school computer, then all bets are off. If it's the student's, I would have said that I don't have IE.

Am I the only one surprised...

[damn_registrars]

... that the teacher even noticed the difference? Really, the displays of firefox and ie are fairly similar, and if you aren't looking at the very top or very bottom of the window, a layperson might not notice the difference at all.

I do wonder what version of windows was being used that the teacher noticed it called "firefox.exe" (and then subsequently changed it to "foxfire.exe" in the write-up).

Re:Am I the only one surprised...

[ThreeGigs]

Chances are the teacher was using some sort of process monitor to see what was running on the kids' computers.

Chances are also good that the teacher never saw the screen of the kid in question.

And, if the kid installed Firefox, he could have also uninstalled it, deleting all history. Any kid savvy enough to install Firefox is also probably savvy enough to have a good reason to avoid admin lockdowns in IE that prevent one from deleting your browsing history.

Worse? If the program running really *was* Foxfire.exe, not Firefox. I see no one has entertained the possibility that the kid was running malware. Also simple enough to rename utorrent.exe to foxfire.exe.

However, all of the above aside, aren't kids *supposed* to be supervised while on the net?

Essentially by running Firefox, the kid could've gotten around blocked sites, bypassed proxies, and been browsing pr0n with no accountability.

And as a sysadmin having dealt with too many users having installed things on work computers they shouldn't have (did the kid install the Google desktop with FF?), I'm completely on the teacher's side.

Disobedience

[Toonol]

The detention was for arguing with the teacher, I'm sure. We all know the school would be better off running Firefox as a matter of course; it would at the least be more secure. But the teacher should be able to, for instance, say "Stop using Word. I want this done in notepad."

It would be stupid, but the teacher can set the parameters of how the kids perform the work.

If the kid wants to promote Firefox, good for him. I'm sure he's sharper than the teacher. But the proper way is to write something up that lists the cost/security benefits and give it to somebody official, not just install and run the software.

(I'm assuming this was the school's machine, not his own computer.)

How about the possibility..

[Smordnys s'regrepsA]

I wonder if the teacher actually knew what the program was, but wasn't sure if the school's monitoring software would work with it.

If not, I'm sure the teacher could get in trouble for not making the kid use IE.

Not saying its right, just saying its a possibility.

What's New

[fumanchu32]

Given the context in which this story is presented, the teacher is quite ignorant. Granted, there is probably a lot more going on than what is in the story. Even so, I was given detention for talking in Calculus one day. The problem... I was at home sick. Needless to say it was easy to get out of.

What I hear:

[nahdude812]

This is what I hear when I read this:

Teacher doesn't know all things about all things, makes request for perfectly reasonable action from child under his/her supervision. Child refuses on the grounds that child knows better than the teacher what the teacher was asking the child to do. Teacher gives child detention for disobedience.

Look, it turns out that teachers are not omniscient. Whether or not the child was correct that he was adhering to the spirit of the request, he was not adhering to the letter of the request, and refusing to do so is still worthwhile grounds for punishment.

Notably lacking from the report is what the kid's attitude was. If the kid copped an attitude, then nothing else would really matter. Also lacking is whether the student installed unauthorized software on the school's hardware. It could be the teacher was cutting the kid a break for a more serious offense by only giving him detention for failure to comply with the request.

There's many unknowns here, and giving the benefit of the doubt, it still breaks down to a student refusing to comply with a reasonable request, and that should be grounds for punishment.

.exe

[yotto]

Considering the teacher reported it as ".exe" that leads me to believe there was some sort of process monitoring going on, and the teacher saw that this one computer, presumably in a lab (else how could they monitor a personal laptop) which leads me to believe that the student DID install Firefox on school property and therefore broke the rules and should be punished.

Any chance that I would be outraged by this, which was quite low to begin with, has faded.

School More Educational Than Originally Thought

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what is the take-away lesson?

1. You probably know more than the authorities do.
2. The authorities don't like it when you challenge them.
3. The authorities have the authority to do things to you that you don't like.
4. The world doesn't care that it isn't fair.

Sounds like an excellent, low-cost (1 detention) life lesson that will serve this kid well.

What's the Problem?

[Smordnys s'regrepsA]

No, I've decided I'm not going to get on the school bus to go to the field trip. I met this awesome guy in the bathroom of the mall and I'm going with him in his car instead

...but, some of my best field trips started like that!

Just more Slashdot sensationalism

[davmoo]

Another day, another non-story.

This is no different than a company telling an employee what software to use on the company's time and company's equipment, and then the employee gets punished for disobeying. If the kid wanted to use something else, he should have done it on his own time and his own computer. "Freedom" doesn't have a damned thing to do with it. There is no story, the teacher is not even the least bit ignorant, stupid, or in the wrong, and I have absolutely zero sympathy for the kid.

And the Slashdot editor(s) responsible for the posting of this sensationalized non-story should also get detention.

Yes, everyone call!

[Megaweapon]

Let's bog down a school with a flood of phone calls from people who have no business calling the school other than to complain about some kid getting a detention for disobedience despite a poorly worded article summary on a geek news site! /sarcasm

UPDATE! Cory Doctorow just reported...

[Spy der Mann]

From boing boing's blog entry:

I just spoke to the principal of the high-school -- nice enough fellow. According to him:
* The kid altered the document after scanning it
* The kid was punished for mouthing off to the teacher, not for using Firefox
* The kid had been asked to work in Word on a resume (the assignment) and kept looking at the Web instead (and this was a recurring problem)
* The kid has admitted this and will be posting a followup/correction/retraction today

It appears that the student wasn't JUST using "a better browser". He was browsing OTHER STUFF on the web. Too bad.

Re:Here's his teacher

[Macthorpe]

Anybody with half a brain will tell you that discipline is critical for kids when they're growing up, and here you are telling people to harrass a teacher who dared to punish a disobedient student.

Absolutely pathetic.

That is actually worse

[Per Abrahamsen]

Giving detention for using unauthorized software for school work actually makes some sense, and not knowing FireFox is a lot less outrageous in the real world it would appear to the users of a nerd forum.

However it seemed to me that the kid was trying to rationally justify his decision, and the reason (as you indicate) that the detention was given as a punishment for questioning authority. That is a much more serious problem, especially if you believe one of the goals of primary school is to teach the pupils how to function in a democratic society.

This actually happened to me...

[icebrain]

Many, many years ago. Though it was the other way around. And, my case turned out happier.

So there I was, Fall 2001, my senior year in high school. As one of my classes, my friends and I were the tech support for the entire school, and we had administrator priviliges on everything but the county network and the gradebooks. We reformatted computers, did network stuff, set up teacher accounts, and so on. We also got away with playing Rainbow Six over the network.

At the time of my incident, the school's computers were all running an old version of Netscape, which hadn't been updated in some time. I believe most of the computers had IE 5, which even though it was IE, was far superior to the Netscape version the school was running.

Anyways, I was in one of the English department's writing labs, working on an assignment using IE instead of the school-sanctioned Netscape. The lab administrator flipped out, wrote me up, unplugged the computer, and sent me to see the assistant principal. (Now, this woman running the labs was a complete idiot... if anything out of the ordinary happened, even "please insert disk into drive a," she'd flip out and unplug the computer, then put in a work request... by the time we got there, she'd tried to turn it back on, and wondered why it wouldn't start up...) And to make it even better, I had just been in that morning reformatting one of her computers. Go figure.

So I get to the principal's office, and explain what was going on. She laughed, explained that the school was basically getting some kind of kickback to use Netscape, and told me not to worry about it. She later had words with the lab administrator.

Re:authority figure is a moron

[MBCook]

The kid wasn't ordered to shoot himself in the foot. He was told not to use an un-approved program.

Cut the hyperbole. Your example doesn't apply.

He wasn't being told to do something illegal. He wasn't be told to do something that could cause physical harm to someone. The teacher was in charge, and if he wouldn't stop he deserved what he got. The correct thing to do would be to stop and then talk to someone more powerful (like the principal) about getting that policy changed.

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[account_deleted]

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Re:authority figure is a moron

[plague3106]

Debating idiocity lends some validity to said idiocity.

No, not wrong.

[khasim]

This is an example of a teacher who may never have encountered FF before and so didn't recognize it as a suitable technology to be used in the assignment.

And when said teacher was informed by the student that it WAS "suitable technology", what did the mature, responsible teacher do?

His/Her actions certainly do NOT fit the criteria for "mature" or "responsible" (nor "teacher" unless you count this as the lesson).

The entire incident could have been a non-issue if the TEACH had acted like an ADULT instead of as an immature child with authority.

Deal with it.

so let's see:

[Surt]

The teacher instructed him to cease using firefox and to do his classwork, and he refused the teacher's instruction. Sounds like grounds for discipline to me.

And at least on my computer, my Firefox link refers to firefox.exe.

My advice to student: learn how to negotiate with authority better. If you hadn't gone in-your-face, you likely wouldn't be in this situation.

Nope, this is school policy in some places...

[Big Smirk]

My daughter, upon entering middle school in Montgomery County Maryland was forced to sign a computer usage agreement. It included among other things, a ban on 'other' browsers like Firefox _IN_SCHOOL_.

Only Microsoft's Internet Explorer (version not specified) is the approved, in-school browser. When I asked her computer science teacher about it. She agree 100% but said it was county policy and as much as she disapproves and recommends using a "good" browser, at school that was the policy.

UPDATE: Statement from the school

[ashitaka]

The following notice has been posted on the school's website. Looks like some attitude was involved which would make more sense. Too bad the principal isn't prepared to provide more details about the use of software.

Detention Letter Press Release
December 17, 2007

Recently, a file was uploaded to the Internet purporting to be a copy of a letter from Big Spring High School to a student regarding a two hour detention. The uploaded letter was an altered version of a detention letter sent to a student. Unfortunately, privacy concerns prevent the School District from giving a full explanation of the nature and source of the letter's alteration at this time. The Big Spring School District does have confirmation that the discipline letter was altered.

The reports, blogs and other sources on the Internet indicating that a Big Spring student was assigned detention for using the Firefox internet browser instead of Internet Explorer are untrue and were based on the fake letter. Detention is assigned in our schools after appropriate warnings are given, if students continue to engage in non-academic activities or fail to follow a teacher's directive during class time discipline can and will be assigned.

Sincerely yours,

John C. Scudder

High School Principal

********* is a hero

[The Fun Guy]

After having read that detention report, all I have to say is that ******** is a hero for trying to use an OSS browser. ******** deserves a pat on the back, not detention. If more people emulated ********'s example, then they, like ********, would see how much better it is. And to ********'s parents, I say, "You should be proud of ********! ******** should wear this detention like a badge of honor!"

Congratulations, ********!

Also, the teacher, "P. Bealmear" is obviously a certain "S. Ballmer" doing a sabbatical in a high school. I see you, Steve!

Re:authority figure is a moron

[H0p313ss]

So it would then be ok in your book that a police officer tell you to stop driving a Audi and drive only Ford?

Well... only a fool would argue it out with the officer in situ! (While arguing with armed men is an invigorating sport it should be left up to experts... like lawyers...)

The correct approach is to stare in disbelief, say "Yes Sir" and proceed to document the hell out of the situation so you can then take your evidence to the police chief, the mayor, or whatever governmental authority the officer reports to as well as the press.

Yes, the teacher is an ass... how can you supervise an course that somehow involves the web and not know what a web browser is? But arguing the point with the teacher IN FRONT OF THE REST OF THE CLASS is just looking for trouble.

I just remembered... I once had an argument about optics with one of the guys who worked on early semi-conductors... later on he told me I was right and that the only reason I lost the argument was:

• A: He was the teacher and
• B: He was the teacher

In school, the teacher is always right, particularly when they're wrong AND foul tempered.

Fake?

[BeanBagKing]

http://www.bigspring.k12.pa.us/news.php?action=view_article&article_id=2131

Response to Internet Hoax
December 17, 2007

Recently, a file was uploaded to the Internet purporting to be a copy of a letter from Big Spring High School to a student regarding a two hour detention. The uploaded letter was an altered version of a detention letter sent to a student. Unfortunately, privacy concerns prevent the School District from giving a full explanation of the nature and source of the letter's alteration at this time. The Big Spring School District does have confirmation that the discipline letter was altered.

The reports, blogs and other sources on the Internet indicating that a Big Spring student was assigned detention for using the Firefox internet browser instead of Internet Explorer are untrue and were based on the fake letter. Detention is assigned in our schools after appropriate warnings are given, if students continue to engage in non-academic activities or fail to follow a teacher's directive during class time discipline can and will be assigned.

Sincerely yours,

John C. Scudder

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually not on the school's side, but a student with computer knowledge altering a document to gain popularity and to raise a cry from everyone on the internet over this isn't unheard of. So who are we to believe? High School Principal

Re:authority figure is authority

[ArcherB]

You sound like the classic case of a proletariat. Just do what everyone tells you, even if it is stupid, and you know it's wrong.

First, welcome to the real world.

Second, let's turn your statement around:
Just do whatever you think is best, regardless of what the rules are, because you know what is right and everyone else that disagrees with you is stupid.

Is that the attitude you take at work, on the highways and in your home? We have rules for a reason. Your thinking that they are stupid does not mean it's OK to disobey them. I think it's stupid that I have to wait a red light when there is no traffic coming. Does that mean I should be free to run it? If you have a problem with a rule, challenge the rule, not the person whose job it is to enforce those rules.

In this case, the student should have stopped using Firefox, started using the tools that he was supposed to be using, and then went to the principal or whoever and challenged the use of IE over Firefox.

Re:The Slashdot Effect

[rice_burners_suck]

The story was updated. It's a hoax. DON'T CALL THE SCHOOL!!!

Re:Here's his teacher

[Macthorpe]

"harrass"[sic] That is what we call in the industry a 'mistake'. This you would know from the fact that you typed 'nowhere' as two words. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Indeed I even went to the length of typing *stands well back* in order to distance myself from what people wish to do with the information I provided. Whatever you need to tell yourself to help you sleep at night. Considering that the article is in fact a hoax, I hope you're prepared to accept the consequences of doing so.

If this is a hoax...

[night_flyer]

and you want people to refrain from calling the school... you could... you know... remove the story...

Re:authority figure is a moron

[MBCook]

The teacher is the authority. They said "close program X", the kid needed to close program X. The kid tried to prove their point, it didn't work, they need to do what the teacher said. You take the issue up after class with the teacher or the principal. The kid just wasted class time and acted inappropriately.

By the time I write this, we know it's a hoax. But that doesn't matter. If the story was true, the kid still acted wrong because they didn't obey the teacher at that moment. No one was in danger. It wasn't that urgent. He just wanted to look cool or more powerful. He was behaving inappropriately.

Except...

[LWATCDR]

That it was a fraud.
I am surprised that even I fell for it.
1. Why would the teacher call it Firefox.exe? They where smart enough to figure out the name of the executable but don't know what firefox is?
2. Why put down that much detail for a two hour detention? "After being asked twice the student refused to follow the teachers instructions". Or the teacher could have just put down. "Student failed to follow school policy."

We where scammed and will now probably end up on snopes.com.

I find it funny that you think it is reasonable to trust a students opinion on what programs should or should not be installed on a PC? Ever see a computer that is used by a teen? Ever clean the malware off a computer used by the average teen?

it's in Illinois

[name_already_taken]

Where, pray tell, is this place known as "Idiocity"?

According to Google Maps it's at the Art Institute of Chicago

Idiocity

[rk]

Where, pray tell, is this place known as "Idiocity"?

It's on the Potomac River, about 100 miles upstream from the Chesapeake Bay.

Re:authority figure is a moron

[jedidiah]

He was being ordered to do something that could harm/disable the computer.

He was being ordered to do something that might prevent him from finishing the assignment.

He was being ordered to do something that might cause it to appear that he has done something illegal.

Clueless teachers...

[Bert64]

I witnessed a kid in my class being given a detention, for "trying to break the school computers".
He was using keyboard shortcuts, instead of going through the slow laborious way the teacher had shown the class.

When I was a kid, I did stupid stuff like this too

[Theovon]

When I was in high school (graduated in '91), I knew vastly more about computers than the teachers did. That wasn't a major feat considering the time, and I am now aware of how many things I thought I knew but knew wrong at the time. But in any case, because of my "vastly superior" knowledge, I was a total cocky-ass jerk. Because of my (perceived, at least) superior technical knowledge, I was a discipline problem and a disruption in class. I would "correct" what the teacher said and refuse (or at least resist) to do what the teacher told me to do, etc.

I should have gotten my ass beat for this.

Of course, at the time, I was really hard-headed. I'm not sure I would have learned my lesson if I had been punished. I was the sort of person who would get so caught up in being technically correct that I was blind to the concepts of being socially or procedurally or ethically incorrect.

I'm 34 now and in grad school. I took a computational linguistics class where we had to code an Earley parser, which is a dynamic programming approach to human language parsing. I was bothered by the fact that the grammar we were using was, in my opinion, half-assed. I think lexical grammars are a better (if still not very good) model of how humans process language syntactically. But I did not complain. I had a good time chewing the fat with the professor about it during office hours, because it's interesting, but there was no need for me to "complain" about it in any context. After all these years, I'm able to pull my head out of my ass and recognize that we often "simplify" things or make arbitrary choices as a foil for learning something more general. We were not there to learn about lexical grammars. We're there to learn to write parsers, and an Earley parser can be adapted to lexical grammars should I feel inclined to do so. Big picture here!

Let's hope this kid doesn't take as long as I did to learn to see the bigger picture, recognize that life involves judicious compromises, learn to function socially, and not be so self-centered that he makes things harder on other people just for the sake of being "right". (And by "right", I mean that he may have logical support for his hypothesis, but it's technical and the topic can still be debated. I'm NOT talking about moral "right" here, which is a whole other subject matter.)

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[account_deleted]

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Bureaucratic stupidity

[wikinerd]

I find it funny that while in theory schools exist to help students learn about the nature and the society they are growing in, detention punishes students by making them stay in the school more, therefore implying that school is probably a bad place to spend one's time.

Here we have a great example of a brainless bureaucracy punishing one of its subjects for being smarter than the crowd. This student may have done something wrong (installed software on someone else's PC without permission) BUT I hope we all can see here that this student was smart enough to understand the deficiencies of mainstream browser(s), find a better browser, and install it. One would assume that society and schools should encourage children to take initiative, fix mistakes when they see them, and take decisions that make their life and the life of everyone better. This student discovered that the big bureaucracy they were subjected in was using a stone age browser, and he took a bold decision to fix the problem immediately without bureaucratic inefficiencies (the only problem being that he should have asked for some kind of permission first because the computer was probably not their property, but we can overlook this because we can't expect from young kids to observe complex society rules, so we should have used this as an opportunity to teach them, but detention really doesn't help a pupil to understand the concept of property at all, it only makes them feel alienated from society and think that they live in a dangerous place).

This is exactly how self-organised societies can function (by the way my academic research is related to self-organised non-hierarchical business companies and swarm intelligence algorithms), self-organisation is a good thing, and yet big bureaucracies like this school kill every spark of self-organisation at first opportunity. One has to wonder whether discipline and hierarchical control has become the new religion and it causes us to live in greatly inefficient bureaucratic McDonaldised iron cages (ironically McDonaldisation implies efficiency but in reality the associated bureaucracies create inefficiencies in many ways). Really, how much time have you lost trying to persuade your boss (if you work in a traditionally hierarchical company, which I thankfully managed to avoid as an independent) that your next project should be done in a serious language such as Python or Lisp instead of .NET? Or that Firefox and Thunderbird should be allowed on your work PC?

Also, why should schools be designed with teachers being superior to students? All humans are students, after all, and some students may know more in one subject than the teachers. For example, in this case probably the teacher knew more in some academic subject (let's say history) and the kid knew more in technology. I see this as a good opportunity to learn: The teacher could invite the student to speak publicly to the class about why this mysterious program "firefox.exe" is a better browser, and they could ask the student to write an academic essay analysing their position on browser choice and argue for or against allowing students to install whatever they want on school PCs. The teacher could offer guidance to the student, explaining that while some students may know better and install good software (firefox), other students may put the school in risk by installing malicious software (viruses), and for this reason some sort of efficient supervision needs to exist. The student then would be required to search online for examples of arguments supporting each view and come up with their own position on the matter, etc... All this could be a great academic exercise, and it would also offer the teacher the opportunity to *learn* from the student, specifically to learn why "firefox.exe" is a better browser. This is what I mean that everyone is a student... Even PhD holders and well-known researchers are nothing more than students, they d

Clueless...

[LWATCDR]

"It's as simple as that. Treat them with respect and they'll treat you with respect."
You really think that if you treat EVERY teenager with "respect" they will treat you with respect?
What is worse is that the "teacher" never did a thing wrong! This was a fraud, scam, lie, a work of fiction.

This has happened to me

[cowplex]

Yes, incredible as it may seem, this has happened to me.

Let me repeat that:
this HAS happened to me.

Schools (K-12 at least) seem to be under the impression that students should be locked down hard from the Internet - a policy I may not agree with, but see good reason for. However, this attitude has gotten me into trouble a number of times.

For instance, one day we had some assignment to look something or another up on the Internet. Since I had my laptop there, I decided that I would use it instead (it has a Dvorak keyboard, which I like better than QWERTY). I pulled out my laptop, hooked it up to an unused RJ45 jack with a cat5e cable that I had brought from home, and did the assignment. At the end of the hour, as we were all packing up, our "sysadmin" (I use the term loosely, as I could do a better job than him while in a coma) walked in and saw my laptop. He walked over, asked my name, and then asked me to try to access a blocked webpage (myspace, if I remember correctly). I typed in the URL, and lo and behold the site came up. The sysadmin looked puzzled, thanked me, and walked away, polite as can be. The next day I found my computer account suspended and a fresh new detention slip waiting for me for circumventing school security, even though I had never done so until he asked me to visit the blocked website.

The first detention was something that I could see a faint glimmer of rationality in, but the second one I got took the cake. This one occurred a few days later, while my computer account was still suspended. I was in the lab again, using the teacher's account (we needed the internet again, and my laptop had suddenly and mysteriously been banned from connecting to the internet at school) when the sysadmin walked into the room and saw me on the computer. He talked to me teacher for a while, and I could see her trying to explain why I needed her account and his insistence that I was breaking every school rule known. Eventually, he walked over to me and asked whose account I was on, etc. and told me to get off immediately. I complied, but before he walked away I asked why my laptop could no longer connect to the network. I asked as polite as you please, no anger in my voice, no threatening actions, etc. He simply looked at me with an odd expression on his face for a few seconds and then walked off. Next day I get a slip with not one, not two, not three, but FOUR detentions for "using another person's account" and for "insubordination."

All this hyperbole brings me back to my initial point: at a different point in time, I got a detention for using a version of portable firefox from my thumbdrive.

Firefox in school

[kakiller]

i am currently a senior at NDHS (Notre Dame High school) in NJ and my freshmen year they started the pilot program, 1 class of freshmen students purchased HP tablet computers mostly locked down by the tech department to prevent viruses and the like. already having more experience with computers then anyone else in my class immediately found ways around a few of the blocks and soon they opened them up a bit so we could manage them ourselves, well that was fine up until last year (my junior year) when my tablet (an HPTC1100 for those intrested) fell off of my desk and the screen cracked, no big deal it was still covered and fixed for free. but instead of just fixing the screen and not messing with the rest they completely reformatted my hdd and i had to re-install everything... soon after i found an SVChost.exe taking 100% of my cpu, so i brought this to the tech departments attention as it was a problem i had with the loaner computer they had given me while mine was being fixed, and what do they tell me the problem is? "o you installed firefox, spybot search and destroy, and adaware" which all 3 i had been using since my freshmen year with out a problem, and now all the sudden they cause my computer to fail at life... besides telling me to uninstall said programs, how do they tell me to fix it instead of taking action themselves? "give it a week and see how it works" a computer is not a pair of shoes, if there is a problem in a file it is not going to fix itself unless it has a way to fix itself. needless to say i removed myself from my schools network soon after and installed linux, i have not had any problems like that since that i did not cause myself by being an idiot

Re:Firefox in school

[SixFactor]

Glad you're using Linux. I wanted to email you, but as with some Slashdot users (including myself), addresses are held private. I'm not meaning to be a pompous ass, but while your story was interesting, you might want to consider some enhancements that would serve you well in the future, especially when you attend university:

1. Capitalize the first letter of each sentence. This helps the reader's eye know when another thought starts (or is about to start).

2. Use of periods versus commas. Periods alert the reader that the thought is complete. Commas let the reader know when you've completed a clause of a sentence, but also tells him to expect a completing fragment (or fragments) of your thought.

3. Use paragraphs. Again, this helps the reader. I have a friend who is dyslexic, and really needs to see whitespace from time to time so that the letters and words do not run over themselves. Your narrative could have been partitioned into maybe three or four paragraphs. Maybe:

a) brief introduction and being part fo a select group;
b) the event that led to the reformat;
c) the consequences of said action; and
d) your ultimate solution.

Adding HTML breaks is easy, just use the inequalities to bracket "br" (no quotes, though), and voila!, a line is added.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: you were in a hurry, and heck, this is Slashdot, so no one cares (dem's fightin' words for ya!). These may be true, but the more you practice proper writing, the easier all your challenges will be, regardless of your future field.

a better response

[nomadic]

If you are planning on calling the school please refrain from doing so, I'm sure they have had enough excitement for one day.

If you were planning on calling the school, then WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? What possible purpose does that serve? There is no legitimate train of thought that should lead to the decision "I SHOULD CALL THEM."

Even if it were not a hoax, detention is appropria

[Tweekster]

It would be completely appropriate punishment.

This isnt about politics of OSS, but rather simple control of hardware on their network and making sure it is consistently running.

Guess what can happen in the real world if you do that type of stuff? anywhere from nothing to finding a new job.

Next on Slashdot...

[tm2b]

... we'll have a big internet furor over whether a child was unfairly sent to their room. We'll start out assuming that the child was correct when they detail it as "no fair!"

Re:Yes I have. Many times.

[Tastecicles]

"Treat them with respect and they'll treat you with respect."

You're not a parent, are you?

Re:authority figure is a moron

[WilliamX]

Yeah, what these people who are saying the hypothetical kid did was correct do not understand the logical extension of their positions.

Say the kid was stopped by the police for something he didn't do. He knows he didn't do it, the cop is convinced he did. The cop tells him that he is being detained, and goes to handcuff the kid. Should the kid fight the cop to prevent being handcuffed for suspicion of something he didn't do? No, and if he did, the Tazing, Macing, or ass kicking he would get as a result, not to mention the then VERY VALID charge of resisting arrest, would be entirely justified.

In the described situation in the classroom, you teach the kid to comply with the teacher, and then seek to talk to the teacher in a private discussion and explain what he was doing, to prevent future misunderstandings. The teacher can then check it out with the school's IT staff or others who are entrusted to make those decisions, and if the student is still not happy, then he should continue to comply with the request not to run firefox in class while he goes throughs channels to see if the policy can be changed. That is the responsible way to teach our kids to handle their problems. To teach them that they do not have to obey someone in a position of authority just because they know they are in the right is to teach them the entirely wrong way of resolving things in the real world.

Re:Here's his teacher

[macbigot]

"All I did was link to publicly available information. I didn't do anything further with it myself, what others did with it is up to them. If anyone really did abuse it (and I doubt that they did; any looneys would have looked up the info themselves) they will have to live with the consequences, not me." -VJ42

What you did (despite the lame attempt to cast aside responsibility) is to pretend that you aren't aware of 1) the large percentage of people that will skim across this forum and NOT realize that this teacher does not need thousands of hate-letters, 2) that many readers will not care that despite their mob-mentality -- their chastisement of the teacher would not have changed his/her behavior if he/she HAD done something wrong, and that 3) our legal system has fully vetted the "I didn't kill they guy I just left a bunch of guns around his little brother's room and what the kid does with them is his fault, not mine." -- and found it lacking in sound logic.

You are showing a method of rationalizing a witch trial that you believe in burning someone for, but can't support with your own logic -- so you hope others will anonymously carry out the sentence for you.

Shame on you. Whatever your political strip, civilized society does not value anarchy without reason. When there is a punishment without a crime, the punishment becomes the crime, and the leader of the torch-bearing mob the criminal.

You have branded yourself -- so don't get all upset that some readers here have pointed you out.