Lenovo Announces the IdeaPad

An anonymous reader writes "Marking the start of news releases from this year's Consumer Electronics Show, Lenovo has dropped a major announcement on consumers - the arrival of a new line of notebooks. The IdeaPads will be the consumer-friendly companion to the ThinkPads. The announcement covers three notebooks, the 17" Y710, the 15" Y510, and the 11", 2.4lb U110. The IdeaPads will bring a number of firsts to Lenovo's notebooks, including a SSD upgrade option, dual hard drives (Y710 only), and a 17" notebook."

Comments

Seems like it could be a winner.

[MikeTheCannibal]

What is everyone's opinion on the Lenovo laptops anyway? I remember hating them when I was younger but have warmed up to them quite a bit in recent years. Any thoughts or comments on them? I can only imagine dual HD's being a winning situation here.

Re:Seems like it could be a winner.

[pionzypher]

I always thought that they looked really dorky and clunky. A friend had one he wanted to sell( a T23, back in 2004) for a reasonable price. I was impressed with the solid build they had and the little features (the led on the top of the screen for night sessions was great). It worked well with linux and took a hell of a beating. I finally trashed it this last year. I was a little sketchy on getting another one now that Lenovo had taken over the reigns, but figured I'd give it a shot. I grabbed a lenovo R61i from Compusa @ their going OOB sale for fairly cheap and have been very happy with it. Ubuntu 7.10 booted right up and detected everything perfectly. The only thing I haven't used or tried to get working is the fingerprint scanner.

All in all, still a solid laptop brand from my experience. It will be interesting to see how these home user styled boxes fare. I wish more B&M stores carried the brand though. Compusa was the only one in my area that had them.

Re:Seems like it could be a winner.

[gr8scot]

Thumbs down to all biometrics.

dual HD - I don't really see the point. With the same total volume, or less, why not use a 3.5" formfactor, rotation rate that won't be too much for laptop batteries, but still have the capacity of a desktop drive, 300GB+? Or, use the same space as the second HD occupies for flash memory, to speed bootup? Sure, more storage is better than less storage, but I'd rather do something different with that space.

At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Hawkeye05]

I don't know how i feel about this, I love Thinkpads and I'm glad there not changing them to make them more consumer friendly, yet i worry this will draw their attention away from the Thinkpads.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Hatta]

What I don't understand is how they consider the Thinkpad to be consumer unfriendly. Aren't Thinkpads universally hailed as the best quality non-apple laptop around?

Is "consumer friendly" just a code word for "cheap"?

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[badasscat]

I sort of agree, with the addition that I really hope people don't outright *confuse* these with ThinkPads. Even to see a Slashdot post about them, mentioning them as some sort of adjunct to the ThinkPad line is kind of disturbing. This really doesn't even deserve a mention here, any more than a new line by Acer or ASUS would. I say that as a former ThinkPad owner.

ThinkPads were developed by IBM, produced for professionals and built like tanks. Lenovo has made a few changes, not all of them good, but basically that design philosophy is intact and a lot of the same people from IBM still work on ThinkPads. The "IdeaPad" line is a rebadge of Lenovo's *own* line (the 3000 series, etc.), which was developed wholly separately, by a different company and in a different country. If the previous lineup was anything to judge by, they're the same basic cheap junk laptops you might find from any second-tier Taiwanese or Chinese company. Adequate for most use, but not even in the same league as a ThinkPad. (I may be a former TP owner, but I'm also a *current* Acer owner, so I'm familiar with both ends of the spectrum here.)

It's not just a case of one being professional and the other consumer, which implies that the differences are mainly in the included software or security features. No, these laptops are built to completely different standards. They're as different as when IBM and Lenovo were making laptops separately. Would a new line from Lenovo have been compared to the ThinkPad in those days? Well, nothing much has changed, except that Lenovo's obviously trying to cash in on the ThinkPad name, and has managed to hoodwink sites like Slashdot into thinking the two lines are somehow related.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[davidsyes]

Dude, go to CompUSA and TOUCH one of these. It's a kewl looking laptop. Actually, I saw another model, but it LOOKS like the 15.4" model. It has the same orange, semi-circle volume control. It weighs nicely, feels nice, and looks REALLY nice. I'd have bought it instead of the Gateway (cough, cough, ACER P-6301), but it was around $900, or some $300 outside of my limit.

I hope people give the Lenovo brand a chance. They are a nice design change from many of the tired, old designs rolled out over the past 2 years by others.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Tokimasa]

I'm thinking that the ThinkPad (I love mine) will become the business machine while the IdeaPad will become the home laptop and boast the hardware that people look for at home (eg for gaming, multimedia, etc).

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[jpu8086]

Drop the non-apple qualifier. ThinkPads are *the* best laptops. EOF.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[lytles]

Maybe they'll actually sell me this one :(

Ordered a t61 for my brother's gf for xmas (I've got an x60, and a t60 from work) and I've been chasing my tail trying to get them to actually ship it ever since. The charge was pending, but they didn't want to ship it to her unless I added her address to my card, but then they couldn't reprocess the request immediately. Then they sent another form letter saying it failed, without any details. Then they canceled the order. Then they said they'd call me to reinstate the order. And that's were I am now - what a pain. I understand and support their goal of making sure the purchase is legit, but they need a better means of closing the loop with the customer.

So yeah - great laptops, but not really consumer friendly.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[PopeRatzo]

I have to agree. I especially like the looks of the Ideapad 110. I'm not sure about this "Face Recognition Security" though. I tend to shave every 4 or 5 days, and sometimes I've got glasses and sometimes not. Sometimes my eyes are red and bloodshot and sometimes they're... well, they're usually red and bloodshot.

It would suck if I couldn't log into my notebook just because I was wearing my leather bondage hood and bridle.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Thanatos69]

Lenovo has done nothing but drag the thinkpad name through the mud. Our organization runs all IBM for laptops and desktops but we are switching soon because 50% of the laptops we have been receiving over the last year or two end up getting sent back because of random problems that are completely hardware related.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Nexus7]

Yeah, the 3000 series is nothing like the Thinkpads. Besides, I'm not sure anything without a Trackpoint can legitimately be called a Thinkpad, or Ideapad for that matter.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[cthulu_mt]

I narrowly avoided the same thing. I ordered a T61 but wanted to ship it to my parents house instead of my shady apartment. I guess Lenovo wants to avoid fraud but all I had to do was change my billing address and it went through okay.

UPS did send it to Alaska for no apparent reason though. Wierd since I'm in New York.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[davidsyes]

Then, that's regrettable to have happen to you. I wonder if they're learning anything. I wonder if this new product line is to diverge from "ThinkPad" or to appease those wanting less costly, but similar machines that just have "ThinkPad" in image association.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[hal9000(jr)]

As a long time Thinkpad user, I was glad when my T60 arrived with the fingerprint reader and then loved/hated it everyday since (little more than a year). There are days when I still have to run my finger across it multiple times (and rather an just entering my password, I continue the mad swiping until it works). The face scan just ain't consumer friendly at all.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[syousef]

My first laptop was a second hand Thinkpad, many years ago, can't tell you what model but it had a combination metal and rubberised plastic frame etc. I paid something like $400 and it was adequate for what I used it for. About six months into owning it the mouse pointer started drifting. I looked it up on the IBM web site. The official line was that this is not a fault, it just happens sometimes, and there was no fix for this. Never mind that it made the laptop unusable until the mouse stopped drifting - it could take seconds or minutes of fiddling with the pointer to get it to stop.

Ever since that experience whenever someone mentions how solid and stable the thinkpads are and how dodgy the asian laptops are, I just chuckle. I've owned Dells ever since, and I've had issues with those too. As far as I'm concerned brand loyalty is for suckers. You have to look at the specific model and unfortunately with model lifetimes decreasing often by the time people have 12 months of experience with a product it's no longer being sold.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[ReptilianSamurai]

The finger print scanner is one of those things that never worked right for me. Sometimes it would work, other times it wouldn't matter how many times I swiped, or which finger I used, it wouldn't work.

I haven't bothered to re-install the fingerprint software since I made the system dual-boot (with a clean copy of windows)

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[couchslug]

"It would suck if I couldn't log into my notebook just because I was wearing my leather bondage hood and bridle."

"You WILL like Face Recognition Security! Now do as your Mistress Lenovo tells you!"

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Isauq]

When you put it like that, I'm wholly and entirely against it. Laptops exist to be _mobile_ computers, a role my T43 has been nearly unmatched in. Laptops aren't for games and desktop-level power applications, and I would even go so far as to say it's a terrible idea. For the same performance as an equivalent desktop, you need to spend almost twice as much money, and you have either a) noisy fans because laptop cases are never going to not be small and cramped or b) excessive heat, because quiet fans don't often have high throughput. I'd try to count the number of so-called "desktop replacement" laptops I've serviced over the past year that were overheating and shutting down from idling on a wooden surface, but it might be considered libel. Add to all these problems the weight and poor battery life that large laptops generally bring to the table and it becomes readily apparent that the only selling point for such machines is a sort of ephemeral "trendiness."

I'm disappointed in Lenovo if parent's prediction is correct.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Iam9376]

Are you referring to the trackpoint (red dot)? If so that is a very well known problem with *ALL* joystick pointers. Thinkpads (if produced in the last 5 years or so) have hw recognition to determine if it is drifting, if it is LEAVE IT ALONE, it only takes a few seconds and as it recalibrates and stops.

Regarding the quality of the current thinkpads. I just purchased a T61p, coming from a T40 i have to say i am very very impressed. The build quality is exceptional, i can pick up the unit from the right corner with one hand and not have the unit flex at all. and the rubber shock absorbers on the hard disk are a nice touch. Also, the larger hinges are welcomed, as my T40's screen just flops around, while this firmly stays in place.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[syousef]

Are you referring to the trackpoint (red dot)? If so that is a very well known problem with *ALL* joystick pointers. Thinkpads (if produced in the last 5 years or so) have hw recognition to determine if it is drifting, if it is LEAVE IT ALONE, it only takes a few seconds and as it recalibrates and stops.

My next computer was a Dell with a (blue not red) trackpoint and on the rare occassion it did drift, it fixed itself pretty quickly. Not so with the Thinkpad. The following Dell I got was also quite reliable. Both these machines had one major issue - screen scuffing against the keyboard. Livable but not nice. The following Dell had a suspected design flaw that Dell never acknowledged and left me claiming warranty against my credit card company (as the credit card purchase extended the warranty). It turned out that the motherboard wears against the case. I eventually got it fixed but it took months and I bought another laptop (a Dell with Dell 3 year warranty) - that one was rock solid. My latest Dell machine had blue screen issues, but it was software not hardware. Using non-standard drivers fixed it. Why am I buying Dells? Price (about $1k less than the competition) and features (really not much to choose from if you want good graphics, and everywhere else that adds a further premium). The build quality hasn't ever been terrible, but now I always wait till they're offering their warranty on special and buy then. I'd love to go for something "better" but I won't judge that by brand. Stuff the lot of them.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[vuffi_raa]

I actually own one of the 3000 series laptops one of the 14.5 inch widescreens- it is a good machine, sturdy built, powerful- I noticed the similar build in the picture- I wonder though if the ideapads will live up to the 3000, it uses a 1.8 inch drive which could be a hindrance if you are using it for robust apps, the 3000 has two hatches on the bottom that make for easy swapping already for the memory and the HD, but encouraging a lot of swapping on a drive tends to lead to damage (as they mention in TFA)

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[macshit]

No eraser-head pointer controller, instead a bog-standard crappy touchpad. Idiots.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[afedaken]

So those of us who have legitimate use for a desktop replacement notebook should just throw our hands up and say "Oh well, I guess I'll go back to being chained to a desk..."?

I'm currently using a eee and a tablet, but I've had a succession of desktop replacements, either for gaming or business purposes. Some applications really do need that much power. Desktop replacements are a compromise, just like any other computer. If you need the levels of power that one provides, then you must be willing to take into account the drawbacks you mentioned. (Weight, cost, etc.)

But flat out saying that laptops are not for desktop power apps or gaming is arrogant and more than a little offensive, you insensitive clod. :-) Don't try to tell me what my needs are. I'll decide that, and purchase accordingly. To that end, I'm glad Lenovo is diversifying their notebook lines. More designs means more specialization, and more choices.

As for the QUALITY of the desktop replacements I've seen, well having worked as a notebook technician, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. For users who keep up with the maintenance, (which is sadly, a minuscule group) they generally perform fine. But if you don't regularly clean those vents and check those fans, the machine will die a premature death, much like any other piece of high performance equipment.

Re:At Least they aren't changing Thinkpads.

[Hognoxious]

I really hope people don't outright *confuse* these with ThinkPads.

Why would they - Idiotpad doesn't sound anythink like Stinkpad.

Yawn

[hellfire]

Cool fruity colors? Nope
Major hype at business conference before it's release? Nope
TV ad featuring two amusing characters bantering back and forth played at all hours of the day? Nope
CEO with reality distortion field? Nope

I'm bored... moving on.

Re:Yawn

[Telvin_3d]

You say that sarcastically, but there is a big grain of truth. As someone who used to sell laptops, the market has almost no differentiation. Every three months, HP, Dell, Toshiba and the rest release new models in step. You try explaining to someone the difference between three notebooks that all have the same 15" screen, processor, hard drive and RAM. If this thing doesn't sell itself, then no one else will go to the trouble.

Re:Yawn

[mcmonkey]

Every three months, HP, Dell, Toshiba and the rest release new models in step. You try explaining to someone the difference between three notebooks that all have the same 15" screen, processor, hard drive and RAM.

Okay, I'll have a go. HP, Dell, Toshiba: I can't tell you if one is more reliable than the others, but I can tell you if your Dell or HP has an issue and needs service, you will be S.O.L. Those are two of the worst companies to deal with, in terms of customer service. If you buy a laptop from either, assume there is no warranty and any repairs will be cash out of pocket. You're better off just spending the money than trying to get something fixed by HP or Dell.

So if those are your only choices, go with the Toshiba.

Re:Yawn

[Alzheimers]

It's not just the lack of personality, it's the utter lack of distinction that makes these laptops a complete non-announcement.

Lets call it an "Unnouncement"

Yes, we're going to be doing the same thing as everyone else.
Yes, it will cost about the same amount.
No, we don't really do anything different.

It's a laptop. Huzzah.

Re:Yawn

[lazy-ninja]

This is highly dependent on what Dell you buy.

I have had much better luck with Dell business (gold) support than any other company I have ever dealt with (All of them!).

Buying Dell machines through the small business department (meaning the Latitude notebooks). Makes worlds of difference vs buying a "craptop" bottom line inspiron.

Re:Yawn

[GwaihirBW]

Working in tech support as a college student, I came to really hate Toshibas . . . it was hideously difficult to find drivers, etc for them. Of course, that's more relevant to user maintenance than to warranty support, but it is worth noting, especially here. Barring further education on this topic, I'd personally steer well clear of Toshiba (although not so much as the overpriced, user-service-proof Vaio line . . . *shudder*).

HP I also came to dislike, although mainly from their consumer printer line - not only have most consumer HPs I've worked with/on been dreadful ink hogs, but also they have a tendency to break for extremely stupid reasons, including small, easily broken levers and such in feed and output trays that appear to serve no function other than acting as kill-switches, which (fortunately) can usually be bypassed when they break by simply taping them into 'active' position without any loss of function. Grr.

The one argument I've heard in favor of Inspiron craptops is "Sure, it's likely to break and be unsupported, but I can just buy another one and still have spent about as much as the Thinkpad would have cost for the one." I don't like that argument myself, but I care more about my computer than most who make it. On the other hand, I have actually had no trouble getting warranty service for my old Dells . . . it's just that the last few times, I've had to send back multiple bad replacement parts before getting something that worked. I always try to buy 'pricing sweet spot' computers, not low end - and I'd go with something specifically designed as a high-quality low-power device (Eee / OLPC) over a cheapo Dell if I needed such a device.

Re:Yawn

[afedaken]

Speaking as a Toshiba owner, the grass ain't any greener.

FWIW, my experience was much improved after I quit dealing with Toshiba's support directly, and went down to the local authorized service provider. As they're merely 10 minutes from where I live, that wasn't much of a hardship, but your mileage may vary.

Re:Yawn

[afedaken]

Speaking of eee support, does anyone out there have any trench stories to tell about ASUS notebook support? The eee is my first non-component ASUS purchase, and I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

face recognition

[cynicsreport]

The IdeaPads have a new feature: Face Recognition. The idea is that the user can sit in front of the computer and log into Windows Vista without entering the password.
This raises the question: could one just hold up a photograph of the user to log in?

Re:face recognition

[Ethanol-fueled]

At least it's not a retinal scan!

Re:face recognition

[Jeremy.DeGroot]

Some recent ThinkPads have face recognition as well. I recently purchased this one, and it has this feature. For those of you that are interested, it recognizes me with or without glasses, right after waking up and right before stepping out for New Years' Eve. We tried fooling it with a 4x6 photo held close to the web cam, and it didn't work. YMMV.

Re:face recognition

[techpawn]

I don't like the idea of the computer monitor that can not only see you, but RECOGNIZE you! Say goodbye to any real anonymity when you computer monitor can see you...and what you're doing. I could see that as a sticky area for privacy advocates..

Also I don't want to lose the joke of "watching someone though their monitor"...

Re:face recognition

[dgatwood]

Try it with a camcorder w/ built-in LCD panel and I suspect you'll get different results. Use a bigger screen that can show your face at actual life size, and it is almost certain. Most decent face recognition systems can detect a picture because the perspective never changes, but unless it has more than one camera, it will likely be easily fooled by a video clip....

Re:face recognition

[sound vision]

MacBooks have had built-in cameras aimed at your face for a while. Not to mention people have been hooking up webcams to their desktops for at least a decade. The "recognition" part is just software.

Re:face recognition

[PowerEdge]

That or wear the face of the owner... Mayan style!!

Re:face recognition

[yabun]

Or a rectal scan.

Re:face recognition

[techpawn]

That or wear the face of the owner...

Hannibal, is that you?

Re:face recognition

[Hawkeye05]

Sorry to tell ya, but that isnt a Thinkpad, not even in the same ballpark as one.

Re:face recognition

[dpilot]

If this were made in the US instead of China, we could have some real DHS paranoid ramblings...

Imagine a secret partition on the hard drive that holds (profiled) characteristics of terrorists faces. So the laptop keeps track of whoever is using it, checks it against its secret database, and next time it's connected to the internet, files a report with DHS.

Re:face recognition

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea your right!!! It's better that lazy users just don't use a password, like they are doing now.... no? Ohh, then it's an improvement, now shut up.

Re:face recognition

[Anonymous Coward]

Or a rectal scan. Apple will be announcing Macbooks that support it later this quarter.

Re:face recognition

[Neil Hodges]

That laptop's likely going to be in the series of IdeaPads, too.

Re:face recognition

[Iam9376]

What are you on? Out of aluminum foil?

What do you think you're computer is going to do? Dial home to Microsoft and alert them you're on?

And if you are so afraid of your computer sneaking details about you to others, why not try a trusted computing platform?

Please keep your fear mongering to yourself. You have less anonymity posting to Slashdot than you do with local face recognition.

Re:face recognition

[Iam9376]

...

um..,

wow.

Consumer friendly??

[damn_registrars]

From the summary:

The IdeaPads will be the consumer-friendly companion to the ThinkPads.
WTF wasn't consumer friendly about the ThinkPad? Granted, I've been a big ThinkPad fan for some time myself, but really, what are they talking about? How do you make a notebook more consumer-friendly? For that matter, how could a notebook not be consumer friendly and sell?

Re:Consumer friendly??

[MojoStan]

WTF wasn't consumer friendly about the ThinkPad? Granted, I've been a big ThinkPad fan for some time myself, but really, what are they talking about? For some writers describing computers and software, the word "consumer" has become a synonym for "home user." The ThinkPad is a "business" notebook, therefore it's not a "consumer" notebook. I think it's a lousy word to describe home-oriented computer products.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Itchyeyes]

"Consumer friendly" is business-speak for "cheap crap"

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Drooling Iguana]

They're probably going to be cheaper and lower quality with more flashy and useless bells and whistles.

They'll also probably abandon the classic "black brick" Thinkpad styling.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[toppavak]

I think in this case "consumer friendly" means mass-marketability. With the thinkpad line, having bright colors or high quality speakers was always a non-option. Don't get me wrong, I'm personally quite fond of the thinkpad's "business black" but (from experience) most consumers want a laptop that 'looks cute' more so than one thats functionally superior (not an attempt to bash apple). Its been much to my dismay that at least two friends of mine opted for 14" Dells over similarly priced and spec'd T-series (I have access to employee pricing) because they liked being able to put colored shells on it.
 
I only hope that the ideapad and thinkpad support lines stay different. I've had nothing but professional and rapid support from thinkpad service (in Atlanta GA), to some degree because I think they're used to mostly dealing with business people and students. I've never had a support call in which the problem was obviously (even to me) hardware related last longer than 5 minutes- always resulting in a depot repair box being overnighted to me. I've never had a depot repair last longer than a day- even with a mobo replacement, they overnighted me the machine back. If their customer base becomes more "consumerized" I'm afraid whomever's responsible for the current state of their customer service won't be able to keep justifying not reducing the quality of their support in favor of maintaining a higher profit margin.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[slaker]

The main objections I've run into with Thinkpads from non-professional users are:
1. Small screens, from people who don't understand why a notebook needs to be portable.
2. Poor multimedia options, from people who expect a notebook to play Doom 3 in 1080p with surroundsound on a notebook.
3. High price, which is a complaint I might see as legitimate (though, I think that the support Lenovo provides more than justifies the added cost).

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Anonymous Coward]

ThinkPad == $$$$. IdeaPad == $$$.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[gauauu]

Maybe they add a windows key ;-)

(I haven't used later thinkpads, so maybe they do have them, but all the ones I used had the windows keys mysteriously missing)

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Beardo the Bearded]

601
603

Re:Consumer friendly??

[emurphy42]

WTF wasn't consumer friendly about the ThinkPad?

Its aura of "I could bludgeon you and your girly-man laptop to death with this thing, if I suddenly felt the need to do so".

Re:Consumer friendly??

[damn_registrars]

Its aura of "I could bludgeon you and your girly-man laptop to death with this thing, if I suddenly felt the need to do so".
If I had mod points (and wasn't already participating in this discussion) I would have given that comment +1 funny. I actually laughed out loud at the thought of someone being bludgeoned to death with a ThinkPad.

Somehow, I doubt that anyone could pull that off with my R32, however. Which, btw, I always figured was their consumer-friendly model, since the R series was the budget line when I bought it.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[sootman]

Not always.

(Note that the first link skips you past the clamshell ones. :-) The white ones, though, were kick-ass and a great value.)

To Lenovo I say: welcome to 2001!

Re:Consumer friendly??

[damn_registrars]

Maybe they add a windows key
That could actually be valid. My ThinkPad R32 came with XP Pro, and did not have a windows key. I am typing this reply on a new touchpoint keyboard from IBM (one of the last made with the IBM logo on it), and it mysteriously has no windows key. Equally interesting is that IBM actually gives credit on the backside of said keyboard to Microsoft for the Windows logo, even though said logo appears nowhere on the keyboard itself.

Not that I miss not having one anyways...

And I see that even the newest "ThinkPad Keyboard" from IBM seems to be missing the windows key.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Lost Engineer]

3. High price, which is a complaint I might see as legitimate (though, I think that the support Lenovo provides more than justifies the added cost). Got a T60, back when that was a decent machine, for 1200 bucks plus some extra for more RAM. In my experience, the "mass market" ThinkPads (T-series) etc. are priced competitively with MacBooks, or maybe it's the other way around. Get into the ultra portables and you're shelling out big bucks real quick. If you work the dell discount machine, you could definitely get a lower price on similar specs. Go lower on the brand name quality scale and you can save yourself a few hundred, but nothing spectacularly cheaper.

Mostly, however, the cheaper notebooks are going to be much heavier, with bigger screens, better sound, reduced battery life. You certainly are getting, ummm, more for your money. If it's your only machine, though, this is the way to go. Perfect for students. I don't blame Lenovo for trying to tap that market, however competition is stiff.

TrackPoint FTW.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Lost Engineer]

Ummm the T60 line has a Windows key and a "Windows Vista Ready" logo.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what you're missing here is the simple fact that a high price is, by definition, "consumer-unfriendly".

Coupled with "you get what you pay for", it comes out as what you said.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Anonymous Coward]

Counter example is this http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Thaelon]

You're misunderstanding the marketspeak. When combined in such a fasion, the words lose all meaning. In fact, that entire sentence is merely to occupy your brain for a few seconds, actual meaning is never conveyed. It's just supposed to give you a feel-good-buy-me vibe.

This is why all marketing drones should kill themselves. Thank you, Bill.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Deadplant]

Can someone please bludgeon the Lenovo marketing droids with a English language textbook please?

(and while you're at it, add the word "droids" to this spell-checker dictionary. Droids has been a real word for decades.)

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Mad Merlin]

Unfortunately, they already added a Windows key starting with the T60. Probably the single biggest blunder made with the Thinkpad line yet.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[slaker]

I have to fight and fight to get business users to look at $1000 Latitudes instead of $700 Inspirons that have essentially the same specs. And then I have another uphill battle to get them to look at $1200 Thinkpads instead of $1000 Latitudes. I can't even make a direct step from $700 Inspiron to $1200 Thinkpad.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Xabraxas]

WTF wasn't consumer friendly about the ThinkPad? Granted, I've been a big ThinkPad fan for some time myself, but really, what are they talking about? How do you make a notebook more consumer-friendly? For that matter, how could a notebook not be consumer friendly and sell?

I think they mean the lack of firewire and a webcam. These two things are not available on Thinkpads and a lot of consumers expect them in a consumer level notebook.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Lost Engineer]

Workin' for the wrong place. My father's company just bought him an X60 tablet. I had to buy my own :(

You could always try and sell them on the biometric stuff and built-in TPM if they have sensitive data. Fingerprint readers are pretty standard on business TPs these days, and apparently facial recognition is becoming more common. If they counter that that stuff is easy to fool you can remind them that you can always require a password too -- many people write their passwords down...

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Valafar]

You may be right with the Webcam, but I know Thinkpads have firewire... At least the one I bought 2 months ago does; I use it all of the time. Now if only they had an eSATA port...

Re:Consumer friendly??

[damn_registrars]

My ThinkPad R32 had firewire, and I bought it back in about 2002.

And the current R series ThinkPads have the webcam as at least an option.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[Xabraxas]

I guess it's just the T series that lacks these options then. I've never noticed a firewire port on any of the R series I've seen and I've never run across a Thinkpad with a webcam either.

Re:Consumer friendly??

[damn_registrars]

The R series webcam is new, I hadn't seen it prior to the link that I posted for the newest R series from lenovo. I had an R31 before the R32 that I currently have, and IIRC, it did not have a firewire. On my R32, the firewire connection is on the same cradle that is used for inserting the hard drive, and also has the USB and audio in/out (on the left-hand side).

Bizarre...

[Junta]

consumer-friendly companion to the ThinkPads What's so consumer-unfriendly about thinkpads?

Well, judging from the specs of the IdeaPads, evidently high resolution and a trackpoint must be consumer-unfriendly, and low res and touchpad only are consumer friendly....

I think I'll stick with the ThinkPad line, thanks anyway...

I see that historically the non-thinkpad Lenovo's are cheaper, and I guess that's what they mean, but I don't see anything to distinguish them from every other cheaper laptop in existence.

Re:Bizarre...

[michaelepley]

They can take my ThinkPad and TrackPoint when they pry them from my cold dead fingers!

Re:Bizarre...

[oldhack]

What's so consumer-unfriendly about thinkpads?

Price. But I find thinkpads worth the extra clams.

But does it run Linux?

[pieterh]

Not a troll... since the EEE showed the way, when I see a nice ultraportable I have to ask whether it will run a slim, fast, and low-cost Linux, or whether I'll be forced to install Windows. Having killed my last Windows box a couple of years back, having a choice of operating systems (RedHat, Ubuntu, Kubuntu,... :-) is now my number 1 criteria when buying a portable.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[outZider]

I think Linux needs better power management before I can consider it for an ultra portable. Ubuntu Gutsy ran great on my Vaio TZ, except for the fact that my battery life went from 6 hours to 3, even after shutting off the cd drive, lowering lcd brightness, and turning on SpeedStep.

So close, but so far away. Even hackintosh did better with power.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[toppavak]

I know IBM used to certify some of their thinkpad models to be compatible with Suse or RHEL, I'm not sure if Lenovo has / will continue this.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the point, isn't it? Without vendor support, Linux can't properly manage the laptop, and so is going to run crippled. It's a driver issue, not a specific lack of power management in Linux.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[keithjr]

Last I heard, it was impossible to buy a ThinkPad without Vista pre-installed. I'm indeed concerned about being able to run Linux (it tends to be flexible enough, and distros nowadays are getting much better at hardware support). However, I utterly refuse to pay for a computer without being given a choice as to what software I am paying for.

Considering this, now that I think about it, I am getting more and more worried about this running Linux at all, like you. Wasn't Microsoft hardware device-signing the Next Big Step?

Re:But does it run Linux?

[hal9000(jr)]

Brother, you can run Linux on just about anything now a days. FWIW, I installed Fedora 8 on a T-Pad R60E. Not your high end machine, to be sure, but it just worked. Unless Lenovo is doing something wonky with hardware, yes, Linux will run.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[iocat]

Last I checked, it has Vista as the default option, with the "Lenovo Recommends -->" arrow pointing just below it, to the unchecked Windows XP button. No serious business is using Vista yet, so I doubt Lenovo is forcing people to take ThinkPads with Vista installed.

OK, I just re-checked. You can get XP, but it costs $30 more than Vista Home. ANd MS has bullied Lenovo into claiming that it recommends Vista.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[LibertarianWackJob]

Not a troll at all! I recently bought a HP dv9620us and installed Fedora 8. I could not get the Broadcom BCM94311MCG wireless card to work. I tried the b43, bcm43xx, as well as several other drivers via ndiswrappers. I just could not get a connection! I had to bring it back for a refund. As far as this machine, just looking at the specs I'd say the networking (including wireless) should work and the video should work. They don't really say anything about the sound card so I can't say. More than likely, acpi should work, even maybe suspend and closing the lid.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, it was impossible to buy a ThinkPad without Vista pre-installed. I'm indeed concerned about being able to run Linux (it tends to be flexible enough, and distros nowadays are getting much better at hardware support). For the T61, at least, there is an option to get XP Professional. I bought a T61 two weeks ago. I got it with Vista Home Basic, though, since that took $45 off the price. Right now it has Ubuntu 7.10 installed and everything works perfectly, even suspend and hibernate (first time I've ever seen that work in Linux). The Intel X3100 driver has one annoying limitation, though: you can't use Compiz and play video at the same time. Hopefully that will be fixed in time for 8.04, especially considering many laptops that come preloaded with Linux come with the X3100 (Dell, System76, etc).

Read up on it.

Re:But does it run Linux?

[SuurMyy]

The problem is that if it comes w/some Windowzen OS, I wonder if they let me take it back to them just stating that installing debian didn't work. I have an Acer 7003 WSMi that runs debian just fine, but the little I've researched, it seems that for example iBooks are tedious w/Linux. I tried at one point to figure out if the LG bagtops can run Linux, but the answer just wasn't to be had, so I decided to not get one.

So, I want some kind of guarantee. I don't want nor need a laptop that can't run Linux. And I'm not really interested in even trying it myself. I want to know when I'm buying. Of course http://www.linux-laptop.net/ helps.

Implications on mac world

[0xABADC0DA]

Why would they pre-announce an ultraportable tiny laptop with flash drive and no optical less than 2 weeks from mac world? I bet a little monkey king whispered in their ear that Apple is releasing something like this and they don't want to be a me-too. In any case we'll be seeing lots of these small screen + keyboard + flash laptops coming out soon. If not I'm going to regret not getting an eee already.

Re:Implications on mac world

[fo0bar]

Why would they pre-announce an ultraportable tiny laptop with flash drive and no optical less than 2 weeks from mac world? Probably because CES is less than 2 weeks before mac world, and this is what companies tend to do at CES?

"Man, why would they eat a lot at Thanksgiving less than a month before Christmas? I bet a little monkey whispered in their ear that Christmas was going to have a big ham, and they don't want to be a me-too, so they announced a big turkey a month earlier." :)

Re:Implications on mac world

[chill]

Like one of these?

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/12623

Re:Implications on mac world

[0xABADC0DA]

Good point. But check out this Apple Patent.

It looks to me like Apple is coming out with the ultimate: a super-portable laptop that you slide into the side of a monitor and it becomes your main computer with your optical drive, full keyboard, mouse, and hard drive storing your large data (like most of your tunes and videos and stuff). And you access this data wirelessly when you remove it (to read web pages on the couch or whatever). You can probably even slide it into anybody's 'mac display' and get your files over the internet.

Re:Implications on mac world

[wed128]

So...a docking station. Like you could get from Dell or IBM for years.

God, Steve is SUCH an innovator!

Re:Implications on mac world

[Anonymous Coward]

Docking stations haven't in the past let you access your stuff wirelessly or over the internet from a 1 kg tablet. Sometimes it's that last 1% that turns a crappy annoying idea like Dell/IDM docking stations into the coolest thing ever.

Kind of like when Apple came out with the iPod when there were already lots of mp3 players. Or the iPhone in a sea of existing phones. Apple just did it so much better than anybody else.

Re:Implications on mac world

[mitherin]

yes, but can I toss it off the top of a building and have it still work?

Re:Implications on mac world

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... what?

Re:Implications on mac world

[toddestan]

I bet a little monkey king whispered in their ear that Apple is releasing something like this and they don't want to be a me-too.

Well, they are already a "me too", with the Asus eee already existing. But then again, around here nothing exists until Apple "invents" it.

Re:Implications on mac world

[afedaken]

You mean like the old powerbook duo w/ the duo dock?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo

It's not like they've never done this before. Although given that it's Apple, I'm sure this new iteration on their previous idea will still be both a commercial and design success.

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[JustOK]

I think the idea is "companion to". Plus, there are too many incidents of ThinkPad owners being arrested by the Thought Police.

Please no

[slaker]

I'd rather they give the toy computers a different name. I know they're trying to draw an association with the Cadillac of laptops, but I'm essentially certain that Ideapads are going to be missing all the things that make Thinkpads genuinely good, like titanium frames and godly support. You can look at a Thinkpad and see a serious and well constructed computer; that's not true with other business notebooks and frankly I'd rather not have to explain why an Ideapad is different from a Thinkpad, any more than I want to explain why the POS Inspiron isn't the same thing as a Latitude.

My customers love their Thinkpads, but I'm going to hate having to tell them that the Lenovos with 17" screens and bright colors on the chassis just aren't the same as the decent ones. Because I know I'll have customers (having years of experience that says "Thinkpad = good laptop") that won't understand the difference until it's too late.

Re:Please no

[slaker]

Actually I meant "Vostro" and not "Inspiron" in that last post. They're the same shitty laptops, but Dell markets one for business users and the other for people who don't know any better.

Re:Please no

[Blakey Rat]

I'd rather they give the toy computers a different name.

Wait, are you saying "Ideapad" is the same name as "Thinkpad?" Either I vastly misunderstand how the English language works, or you do.

Kidding aside, Apple had an iBook and a PowerBook for years, and I don't think anybody was confused by the "similar" names. I don't think this is something Lenovo has to worry about, frankly. Competing with HP and Dell in this market segment is going to be more of a challenge than a possibly confusing name.

Re:Please no

[oblivionboy]

Actually I use an Inspiron 700m for live performances (electronic dance music) in very hostile club environments, and carry it around to gigs in a backpack, and its done fine over the couple of years I've owned it. I'd say its very solidly built. I've seen some Latitudes choke within six months of purchase on the other hand. This experience, plus some of the others with Mac laptops (where say the old G3s are still kicking around strongly, but the newer white G3s are all dying out due to either hinge problems or motherboard flakeyness), makes me think that the quality of individual laptops are far more influences by their design team than anything else. While its true that most likely Dell says "Ok this Inspiron will sell at this price with these features", but my general feeling is that two different engineering teams can probably come up with two totally different laptops in terms of build quality and longevity.

Re:Please no

[Anonymous Coward]

Inspirons ARE the same thing as latitudes. Take it from a Dell employee.

Re:Please no

[slaker]

My understanding is that they're made by different OEMs. The build standards are very obviously different even down to the quality of the plastic on the external chassis, as are some basic components like keyboards and the LCD parts.

Re:Please no

[Anonymous Coward]

Godly support?

"Dear God, bless mommy and daddy and aunt bessie and please fix my computer."

Re:Please no

[afedaken]

Dell sources its laptops from many different manufacturers. The ones it sourced from Samsung (one of which is the 700m) tend to be pretty durable.

A little bit of research can usually reveal who built what Dell. In my expereince, you're best off skipping the Compal and Sager built units (like the old XPS notebooks) and looking for the Sammys.

No Trackpoint.

[MythMoth]

For me, and other trackpoint addicts,

No trackpoint = no sale.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[Hawkeye05]

And it should be criminal when ther companies put it in there laptops :cough: DELL :cough:

Re:No Trackpoint.

[teslar]

For me, and other trackpoint addicts

What, all five of you? Just kidding... :-)

It's a no to the Ideapad from me as well, though - but for a different reason: the 15 inch one has the 1280x800 resolution my 4 year old laptop has - and that is one thing I really want to upgrade with my next purchase. And no, I don't want a 17 inch laptop, thanks very much.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[pwnies]

I used to not enjoy the trackpoint at all, and I scoffed at trackpoint users. However I quickly realized the benefit of having, and have since grown to love it on my new Lenovo X61 Tabletpc. To all the haters that I was once a part of, we don't care about your hate, we have our nub to rub.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, totally agree.
I've met very few people who claim to like touchpads - I'd say 95% dislike, 5% like.
Trackpoint however gets the opposite rating. People seem to get very comfortable very quickly.

I don't understand why IBM didn't / doesn't license the technology - it's simply the best way to drive a portable device's cursor.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[GeoSanDiego]

I agree. As long as they make laptops with trackpoints I will only ever purchase laptops with trackpoints.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[Mad Merlin]

Well, they're making 15" T61p systems with 1920x1200 screens now, that would be a bit of an upgrade from 1280x800...

Re:No Trackpoint.

[Anonymous Coward]

No trackpoint = no sale.

Immediately report to the closest department of homeland security officer for reprogramming.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[NateTech]

Amen brother.

Well, I'll admit to having a MacBook, but its only saving grace is the dual-tap feature now pretty common on notebooks, but fairly rare on most when the MacBook first came out. At least I can scroll without messing with arrow keys or trying to point at something on the screen and drag it.

Re:No Trackpoint.

[streepje]

For me, and other trackpoint addicts,

No trackpoint = no sale.


+1

Slasvertisement?

[pembo13]

First slashvertisement for the new year I see. Cool

Next Up: FreedomPad

[stoolpigeon]

Freedom! In a box! What a wonderful company!

Re:Next Up: FreedomPad

[rrohbeck]

Cool name, but it sounds like a panty liner to me.

Specs

[dankasfuk]

The specs seem to be a little behind the times (at least for the 15" model). Considering it's being touted as a multimedia notebook, I would at least expect a higher resolution (ie 1440x900) and probably a discrete video option.

Re:Specs

[LibertarianWackJob]

I'd be looking for a processor in the T7000 series with an 800MHz FSB and >2GHz. I also don't know about the Intel X3100 Graphics Media Accelerator. Is that really suitable for playing games? I don't think it has any dedicated RAM. If you think I'm wrong on this please let me know! I'm currently shopping for a new laptop. It will mostly be a development machine but I will be trying out some games and I want a graphics card powerful enough to handle it. If the Intel X3100 is good, then I'm excluding several good laptop replacement candidates from my search. As of now, I'd rather look for something with a Nvidia card in it.

Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

We don't need all these dinkier notebooks or "tablet PCs". Because they're expensive and suck a lot of power (therefore are heavy and don't last long between charges). These portable PCs are too big, and mobile phones are too small.

What we need are lightweight little touchtablets running VNC. That weigh a handful of ounce, unfold from 8" to 17", last a week on a charge, and cost under $100. All they have to do is display a remote tappable desktop, with mutable little speakers, maybe bluetooth headphones/keyboards for occasional use. Live on WiFi.

There's a thousand models of the "mobile desktop relacement". What we need is little devices that are just little controllers for all the media and info consumption we do when we're away from workstations, and want to do more than talk or look up some factoid on a phone. If they were cheap enough, people would buy a bunch to leave all over the place where we might just pick them up.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm hoping we'll see something come out of the move to commercialize the tech in the XO laptop. That thing is already very close to what I want: high DPI screen, wifi, USB, low power consumption, extremely low power display-only mode for reading, all flash memory. Ditch the keyboard, maybe add touch screen if it can be done cheap. Otherwise, the swivel screen allows you to flip between a tablet-looking mode to a keyboard mode easily. (Probably makes the device more bulky, so dropping it for touch screen would be nice)

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Rgb465]

http://www.tatungwebpad.com/

I messed around with a few of those back in '05, and it looks like the specs have not changed much since then. The processor, an ~800mhz transmeta chip, is *far* too slow to be useful (it downclocks itself significantly at the first sign of stress -- stress like, say, Windows loading...), the case is cheap and flimsy, and the battery life sucks (an hour, IIRC).

I was not privy to the price, but I'm sure they were fairly inexpensive, otherwise the project lead would not have considered them.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[slaker]

Form factor becomes an issue with what you're talking about. I can do all the stuff with the $500 smartphone (HTC 6800 in my case) I have clipped to my belt, but for anything beyond very simple information retrieval, it's too small to be useful. I have multiple input options including touch on screen and hard keyboard, but they're all a pain in the ass.

Were my phone any larger, it would wind up in the same category as my notebook, which is to say, too much of a hassle to carry with me all the time, everywhere I go.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[dgatwood]

Who here immediately thought of the home computer movement decimating the market for terminal servers and cried?

I agree there's a market for such a device, but it isn't as ubiquitous as you think. When I think of the classes of users that use mobile devices (whether laptops, phones, PDAs, iPod Touch, whatever), I see a few basic groups (which are overlapping):

1. People who like to carry their work home at the end of the day (and maybe work at home)

   This group would do fine with a low-end laptop, but most would not do well with what you are describing because they would not be able to achieve nearly the same speed of access at home using VNC over a VPN over a DSL or cable connection.... VNC is slow enough to be uncomfortable with a dedicated 802.11b connection, and even that is a lot faster than most home internet connections.

2. People who need a way to take notes in meetings/classes

   Because they could reasonably have a high-speed network connection to the server, this group would do fine with either a laptop or a controller connecting to a computer in his/her dorm room or office, assuming the campus/workplace has sufficient wireless in all classrooms. Teachers, however, would hate this. :-D

3. People who need to be highly mobile within their work area (e.g. nurses/doctors in hospitals)

   This group would ideally have a controller as you describe.

4. People who like to work around the house but don't want to be tethered to a desk

   This group would be able to use either a laptop or a controller as you describe, but might quickly tire of the limited input functionality when trying to use such a device for general-purpose computing.

5. People who like to be able to work anywhere (from coffee shops, while flying in an airplane, from a hotel room, etc.)

   This group of people can't practically use a controller, as access to a network can't be guaranteed with sufficient performance or reliability.

Because these groups have different needs and because most people aren't limited to just doing #2 and #3 in their mobile use, the only people likely to consider a controller as you describe are the affluent who have money to buy these devices in addition to their laptops. For most people, though, they will need to choose one or the other---a laptop or a controller---and they will bite the bullet and pay more for the laptop because it does what they need and the controller doesn't. For most people, mobile computing needs local storage and CPU power right now, and will continue to need it outside of specialized uses until such time as cellular network bandwidth increases by at least an order of magnitude or the number of Wi-Fi hotspots increases by three or four orders of magnitude, whichever comes first.

I'm not saying it won't sell---I'd buy a 12" or so touchscreen tablet in a heartbeat for touch-sensitive faders and transport controls in my home studio---but don't expect it to be some huge revolution in computing any more than the network computer that Steve turned into the iMac would have been back in the late 90s, and don't even think about doing any of that with a protocol like VNC. Use a local graphics subsystem that supports remote drawing commands in a lightweight fashion like X11 or DisplayPostScript, or better yet, separate the UI and the back-end processing entirely and run the UI entirely on the portable device, and for simple stuff like word processors, run the app entirely on the device and use the network only for storage (and provide local storage for when, not if, the network goes down).

The thing is, fundamentally, you're constrained by the speed of signal propagation (generally in copper), and latency of a keystroke or a UI action needs to be in single-digit milliseconds to not be annoying, which puts the upper bounds for even the most efficient communication protocol (with no processing overhead at either end and a straigh

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

The Palm Pilot in fact revolutionized the PC business, and fueled the smartphone revolution, by doing exactly what I described, but without networking (especially not wireless) - just a decade ago.

I'm not talking about a standalone device. Not one that would primarily network farther than somewhere in the same building. I'm talking about dinky little interactive displays that are network peripherals for a W/LAN. I agree that symbolic graphics transmission (X, display postscript) would be better, but bitmaps can accommodate video. With 100Mbps WiFi, that's no problem, so the onboard processing (for power/weight) is better dedicated to solely GUI. Plus the inherent tiered architecture would be a lot easier for regular people to understand.

I think this is the niche that is actually waiting to happen the way the tablet makers tried to say theirs was 5-7 years ago. But much bigger, especially now that there's so many LANs deployed now.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

It weighs 1.5Kg, has about 1h battery life, and its website dates from 2002 - so I doubt it's available at any price.

That's not exactly what I'm talking about.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Orange Crush]

What we need are lightweight little touchtablets running VNC. That weigh a handful of ounce, unfold from 8" to 17", last a week on a charge, and cost under $100. All they have to do is display a remote tappable desktop, with mutable little speakers, maybe bluetooth headphones/keyboards for occasional use.

Screw that, I want a pony.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

How lucky for you that after so many years of people saying they want a pony, and what it should be like, that ponies are now widely available.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[GreggBz]

Ever use VNC over a sub 5Mb connection? With even 100ms+ latency? Connected to a high resolution desktop?

I frequently connect to a 1024x768x16bit Windows 2000 server and it's slow and ugly even across my uber fast gigabit office network. Sure, it's serviceable for an admin, but try playing Quake. You get the double dose of VNC input latency and connection latency. Google video even looks like crap.

Until we get near light speed broadband, I don't see this replacing a desktop.

But you idea is definitely cool for work!

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[RAMMS EIN]

``Where's the Cheap Webpads?''

In the bin for ideas that are never going to be commercialized, because there isn't enough profit in it.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

Why would the connection be under 5Mbps? A home WLAN should be something closer to 100Mbps. And I don't think we're talking about playing Quake, or watching movies, just exposing control GUIs to manage multimedia (including email, calendar, phone GUIs, etc). Not replacing a desktop, but offering a GUI peripheral to control a network of content and apps.

FWIW, Windows 2000 server would probably need something like gigabit networking to get even close to 100Mbps to a device like this over VNC.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

Tell me how selling hundreds of millions of cheap webpads as "remote controls" for smart/multimedia homes has no profit in it. Or show me where they keep that bin, so I can rummage through it for more "uncommercial" ideas.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[glwtta]

Because they're expensive and suck a lot of power (therefore are heavy and don't last long between charges).

Yes, that is the perfect criticism of the U110, which weighs 1Kg and has an 8 hour battery life (definitely won't be cheap, though).

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would the connection be under 5Mbps? A home WLAN should be something closer to 100Mbps. And I don't think we're talking about playing Quake, or watching movies, just exposing control GUIs to manage multimedia (including email, calendar, phone GUIs, etc). Not replacing a desktop, but offering a GUI peripheral to control a network of content and apps.. FWIW, Windows 2000 server would probably need something like gigabit networking to get even close to 100Mbps to a device like this over VNC.

Latency is the big issue, not throughput. And I did say your idea was good for work.

I have an eeePC. It set me back a little over $300. I'm not going to itemize the utility a portable Linux workstation provides so, suffice to say it's as complete as a full desktop from several years ago, and it plays Quake III just fine. There's no substitute for a having everything right there.

Your idea is a mirror of the one we had a few decades ago; dumb terminals. They went away mostly when PC's got cheaper. With the plummeting price of portable CPU cycles, there's no reason to limit hand held devices to VNC only functionality.

Maybe when wireless Internet is ubiquitous, and very low latency, this would work. But by that time, we'll have 8 gigaFLOPS in our shirt pockets.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Doc Ruby]

My idea is actually just a request for the "thin clients" that big industry players tried to introduce almost a decade ago. The reason to have these things process just the GUI, not the app, is that then they can be small, light, cheap, and longlasting on a charge. The use scenario is to offer GUIs to LANs, so WiFi is already "ubiquitous" enough (if you set one up). 802.11e WMM is QoS with latency low enough for VoIP and video, so it's probably also just fine for the kinds of apps I'm talking about.

The price of "PCs" isn't plummeting fast enough, or we'd already have this class of devices as a version of the PC. If the device were not actually a PC, not a general purpose processor, but rather based on mainly GPU and a minimal CPU (or even an ASIC) for connecting the GPU to the WiFi, then it could be light and cheap. But most importantly it could last a long time, like a week, on a charge, especially if its display is just SVGA or UGA, not a real desktop.

What has actually changed is that there is now a scale economy for these small displays and GPUs, and enough content in enough homes (and offices) now that "LAN remotes" are something lots of people can see a use for. So they're cheaper to make, and have a bigger market. Sounds like a worthwhile product to make.

Instead, they're turning out endless parades of slightly different notebook models. Seems like a waste of time, and a missed opportunity.

Re:Where's the Cheap Webpads?

[Akira1]

Have you ever actually USED vnc?

I agree that the current crop of desktop replacement laptops make little sense to me, but laptop sales are soon to EXCEED desktop sales. At my home my wife uses a laptop for nearly all her computing duties. She only uses her desktop to rip and burn DVDs because her laptop does not contain a dvd burner.

Surround sound?!

[DirkGently]

WTF are 4 speakers and a subwoofer doing in a laptop?

Does the ThinkPad line come with fewer gimmicks?

Re:Surround sound?!

[westlake]

WTF are 4 speakers and a subwoofer doing in a laptop?

Playing games that bring a little more excitement to the genre than Tuxracer.

Re:Surround sound?!

[kramulous]

You'll need them for the Blue-Ray drive they'll graciously put in it for a nominal fee.

If you're sitting in front of Vista...

[IANAAC]

it's trained to look for nervous ticks and other suspicious behavior and act accordingly.

Re:If you're sitting in front of Vista...

[Anonymous Coward]

it's trained to look for nervous ticks and other suspicious behavior and act accordingly. Like this?

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/03/0426219

Re:Criticism of Lenovo

[Anonymous Coward]

you didn't post your links right... they didn't redirect like usual. What a shame.

Nope

[pjt33]

Beaten to it by some projector (and maybe that memory foam stuff as well - I didn't read that one, so I'm not sure whether it's about a product).

Sounds familiar

[NewmanKU]

Is it just me or does the IdeaPad remind you of the Jump To Conclusions Mat?

Re:Sounds familiar

[Dancindan84]

Ha! I was just about to post this. Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking it.

Re:Sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

Well they could have called it the MaxiPad. And instead of 4 speakers, you'd get wings.

Re:Sounds familiar

[darrinallen]

It is great they are releasing the laptops at the 2008 Consumer electronics show. I think that starts January 7, 2008.

Another knock off

[haleq]

First the 3000 series and now this? When i first saw this new range of laptops from IBM/Lenovo, was excited about seeing a possible compromise between the thinkpads price and quality. I just stopped looking when i saw it had no trackpoint, and i can also assume that the build quality will be nothing on the thinkpad. For me, its just another cheap copy of the original and great.

Re:Another knock off

[Anonymous Coward]

I just stopped looking when i saw it had no trackpoint, and i can also assume that the build quality will be nothing on the thinkpad. For me, its just another cheap copy of the original and great.

Please tell me how can you judge the quality solely on the lack of a TrackPoint? I've used a Lenovo 3000 N100 as my main machine for a year now, and it's built noticeably sturdier than my ThinkPad R50e. In fact, I sometimes worry about breaking my R50e, but I can toss my 3000 around and not break a sweat. Don't badmouth a product in public unless you've tried it.

Re:Another knock off

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, Thinkpads are no longer Thinkpads as well. My old R31 has been going strong for 5 years without a single issue. I purchased two brand new T series laptops within the last few months and both had a serious hardware issue within the first couple days. Needless to say both laptops were returned for a full refund.

I been browsing used Thinkpads on eBay recently. That's the only way to get a reliable one as far as I can tell.

At last!

[ThanatosMinor]

A portable tool that I can use to ideate while I'm on the road. I hope it has wi-fi enabled buzzword bingo built in.

mod parent up...

[savuporo]

i was thinking the exact same thing. my first thought was, oops, does that make my both thinkpads now turn unfriendly on me ? we have been getting along so nicely so far, running various opsyses without any problems, travelling around and holding up nicely, and now, suddenly unfriendly ? wtf.

Thats the common problem with overinflated product announcements, practically any hyperbole they apply will make previous products from the same company look silly.

Better name

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a good nickname for this would be the iPad.

But if it's Vista...

[ChePibe]

It would be better if it detected winces of pain and vomiting motions...

Re:But if it's Vista...

[Constantine XVI]

Your computer doesn't need to go that far to find out you tried to watch 2g1c*

*the less you know, the better

Rejected names

[Random BedHead Ed]

Faced with the task of coming up with a consistent naming scheme, the following ideas were rejected but could appear as future products:

• PonderPad
• EnvisagePad
• CogitatePad
• WeighInPad
• ConsiderPad
• ContemplatePad
• DeliberatePad
• MeditatePad
• RuminatePad
• MusePad
• GrokPad
• BroodPad
• MullItOverPad

Re:Rejected names

[Anonymous Coward]

ChinkPad?

Re:Rejected names

[tresho]

ConstiPad

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[Speare]

So, now the Chinese are aping the Japanese method and renamed the thinkpad the ideapad? No, they're simply ridding the Lenovo line of any trace of the old IBM culture and trademarks. Thirty years ago, IBM employees used to go to the nearest office supply cabinet, and pull out these little pocket notepads with a leatherette cover. On the leatherette cover, only the word "THINK" was printed, in gold foil lettering. It became so ingrained in the IBM employee culture that the name ThinkPad was an obvious choice for the laptop when it was released. Lenovo isn't IBM.

Here comes the iPad!

[saveonweb]

This seems same components under the hood with a new name....iPad. There seems to be no innovation. Angled monitor seems to be a good design improvement but no trackpoint, that's not good. As a consumer, I would expect a better resolution and a longer battery life and lighter and less expensive. This looks like ThinkPad is the winner again. It is next to impossible to improve perfection.

Re:Here comes the iPad!

[treeves]

I like my ThinkPad a lot, but "perfect"? Not quite. I had to send it in to get the system board replaced after two years of heavy use. They did a great job of turning it around, btw. Also, the texture of the lid could be improved. It gets marred over time. The most used keys (e.g. the spacebar) get shiny over time too, so when you use the built-in light (a nice feature) over the screen, there's some glare. Probably there is nothing better, but nothing is perfect.

Re:face recognition.. Dual Hard Drive, GEEKS!

[davidsyes]

"Lenovo's Secondary Hard Drive solution gives you two, totally separate hard drives, one of which can be hot-swapped and used in other systems (via slot or cable)."

How many geeks WOULDN'T like to have TWO internal HDDs? When I laid eyes upon the Gateway P-6301, with a 17" LCD, at $699 (or $649?), all other laptops with S-Vid out, and several other ports I hardly use anyway, were no longer contenders. However, I wish the drive caddies SLID out instead of requiring me to flip over the l/t. However, at least the bay cover snaps and screws on, meaning the screws aren't really needed in my case. But, I suppose Dell has a patent on the slide-out caddies in the modular bays...

Additional rejected names

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the Orgazmapad, or in the case of Slashdot readers, the Masterpad.

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[WillAdams]

Actually, the ThinkPad was originally to be a pen computer, hence the ``Pad'' name (Think does come from the pocket notepads --- the ones I've seen were actually leather though) --- see the full story in _ThinkPad, A Different Shade of Blue: Building a Successful IBM Brand_ by Debra Dell and J. Gerry Purdy.

William

Also

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Biz speak for "You have a Thinkpad, buy one of these too." IOW, just because you already have a laptop does not let you off the hook to buy one of these too.

my dream thinkpad

[wikinerd]

What I want from life is smaller ThinkPad-grade models: A 5" ThinkPad-grade UMPC and a 8-9" ThinkPad would be exactly what I want as a road warrior.

This is nothing new

[Cannelloni]

I've had two ThinkPads: a T22 and an X31. Both were decent workhorses but suffered from faulty operating systems (modified OEM versions of Win 98 SE and Win 2000, respectively, remedied by me switching to Debian for fun, Win XP for boring stuff...) and they didn't even ship with restore CDs (they used a dedicated restore partition with a system image on it). The right hinge on the T22 broke after a couple of years of normal use (no drops, no manhandling). The display dies on the T22 after a few weeks, the HD a number of weeks later... On the other hand, the X31 was a damn good and nippy little machine. I bought the se machines because at the time, I had to use Windows software. Now I use a Macbook Pro... No reason to run Windows or by a Windows machine any more. The MBP is the bomb.

Laptop advertising?

[tristian_was_here]

Is this laptop advertising? and another thing I must mention what's Zonk or Slashdot get out of it?

thinkpad 240 model

[Anonymous Coward]

was about as small as a laptop could be while still being useful. http://www.pcauthority.com.au/review.aspx?CIaRID=139/

Keeping the keyboard to 95% of a full-sized laptop's was a god-send. Too bad the fastest processor they ever shipped with was a 500MHz Pentium III.

Re:Implications on mac world- Travesty?

[davidsyes]

Considering that MANY Asian-region laptops sell WITH Linux and are DESIGNED for Linux, it's nothing less than a TRAVESTY that we in the US cannot get hardware designed to not exclude Linux at point of market release. Sure, they use Unix/Linux/OS-Agnostic designware, but to foist on the Public hardware that is windoze-centric just to prop up msoft is just a sheer tragedy.

MOST of the components are os-agnostic, anyway. So, I have ALWAYS suspected the existence of BIOS- or motherboard-loaded obfuscatory code meant to stymie the power-saving capabilities when it comes to Linux.

There should be some investigation into this, and if I'm wrong, then the suspicion could be put to rest. WHY is it SOO goddamn painful to institute safe, reliable, consistent, windows-comparable/superseding power management? Somebody's getting paid, or their existence is being threatened.

Lenovo would be smarter to in-house question where they are going and what they are doing. IF Lenovo shook up the market by flooding the world with Linux-FIRST laptops, windows second (but not EXCLUDING windows), then the playing field might be less fraught with cliffs and swamps for companies that WANT to cater to ANY customer, but whose very survival depends on not pissing off microsoft.

Also, I WISH the lamers in the OEM/hardware sales companies would STOP emblazoning their products with "[manufacturer] recommends microsoft [ms product/os] for all your computing experience..." It's plain disgusting. It's just making impressions that don't need to be made because by default, ms windows is ON some 90% of the existing retail-sold hardware due to marketing dollars to big to resist. THAT sounds like collusion to me. The DOJ ought to take a look at this. Even a cursory read of business law will pretty much lead to that unless you are a ms lawyer...

I refuse to buy one...

[aapold]

as it would mean crossing the picket lines.

Until the writer's strike is resolved, we have no choice but to boycott Len....

oh.

LenoVO.

never mind.

the U-110?

[gaveawaymyname]

I would advise against keeping any secret documents on this laptop. Also, no Sony batteries.

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[foobsr]

Think does come from

"Thomas J. Watson coined the motto Think while managing the sales and advertising departments at the National Cash Register Company, saying "Thought has been the father of every advance since time began. 'I didn't think' has cost the world millions of dollars." In 1914 he brought the motto with him to CTR, which later became IBM." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Think

Think about it, it seems obvious.

CC.

Re:face recognition.. Dual Hard Drive, GEEKS!

[Aardpig]

Been there, done that, even had a RAID-0 array for laughs. To be honest, not really worth the bother; apart from having faster access times, nothing is gained over an external 2.5" USB drive apart from weight and heat.

Re:face recognition.. Dual Hard Drive, GEEKS!

[davidsyes]

Yeh, I've sorta been there, done that, too (USB disks hanging off the side), but it looks tacky as shit when at an I-cafe, where tables are small and a rat's nest of wires unsightly.

But, what I like is being able to hit F-10, select which disk from which to boot, then select the OS of choice for the task at hand.

Since my P-6301 has TWO CPUs, I *wish* it had the capability (or it does but I don't know how) to run TWO os's simultaneously, independent of needing VMs. Just add a toggle to deal with sharing video and peripherals. Hell, put in a 2nd vid card... I guess that would add $30 more to the lappy.

damn

[thatskinnyguy]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Lenovo is taking IBM's reputation for rock-solid business-oriented computers and using it to become the Chinese version of Dell? I've been using IBM computers for close to 20 years. I started-out with an XT. I'm writing this message from my ThinkCentre. I've also had a few ThinkPads along the way for work and for personal use. I guess you could say that I'm a fan.

I would hate to see the legacy of just plain good computers be pissed away. Of course, I haven't seen the new line in person yet so this is all speculation. Also, Lenovo != IBM. So why are my expectations so high of them?

Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you advertising for Lenovo now? Unless the laptop has some kind of crazy new technology or costs significantly less, this isn't worth posting to slashdot.

Any good photos?

[Midnight Thunder]

Does anyone have any photos that give a real feel of what the portable looks like, as opposed to the sampler images on the web site?

numpad and keyboard placement

[Anonymous Coward]

one thing that's bothered me about approximately 100% of laptops is that the keyboard is on the far side of the base. this can cause mouse movements and clicks on the touchpad while you type unless the laptop allows disabling of the touchpad. additionally, it forces you closer to the screen. if the keyboard were up front, there'd be plenty of room behind it for both the touchpad *and* a dedicated numpad, which is normally only found on large-screen notebooks. also, you could use whatever wrist rest you wanted, rather than being somewhat forced to use the front part of the laptop's base.

Distracts from issues with TP line

[MSTCrow5429]

So what, Lenovo can't stop the slowly sliding quality of the ThinkPad line, so now they're making consumer grade notebooks that you expect to be crappy? How about the "Cluelesspad" next.

More useless biometric security?

[smaddox]

From the article:

VeriFace facial recognition security How is this a good idea?

I mean, I thought fingerprint scanning on laptops was a bad idea, but facial recognition? All You have to do to beat this is take a picture of the person, and print it out!

Then, even if you know they can get in, your ****ed, because you can't easily change your face.

As a Thinpad T61p owner....

[Nonillion]

When IBM sold their laptop division to Lenovo I was apprehensive as to how this was going to affect the quality of the Thinkpad line. I currently own a Thinkpad 600E, A31p and a recently purchased Thinkpad T61p. The T61p seems to have all the quality that what you'd expect from the original IBM Thinkpad line. While I haven't seen any new Ideapads but I'm assuming they're just less expensive versions of the Thinkpad line. Not many Jane and Joe consumers would dish out $2100+ for a decked out T61p when a Ideapad would be half the cost.

Re:As a Thinpad T61p owner....

[Nonillion]

I hate it when I hit the 'submit' button too early!!!!

Re:As a Thinpad T61p owner....

[loraksus]

Not many Jane and Joe consumers would dish out $2100+ for a decked out T61p when a Ideapad would be half the cost.

True. But lenovo's "3000" series aren't exactly awesome either.

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[WillAdams]

That may be why the pocket notepads had ``THINK'' on them, but it was a notepad which was tossed down on the table to make the suggestion for naming the nascent machine a ``ThinkPad''.

Wlliam

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[BASICman]

You can still buy Think pads (or "analog Thinkpads" as I call them) from the IBM logowear store. They're priced at about $1.50 each and are often out of stock...

Reflecting Display - no sale

[Maavin]

I'm so glad that thinkpads never had those horrible "glare" displays... I buy a notebook to travel with it, where the lighting conditions are mostly not ideal. Thinkpads with non-reflecting displays and ThinkLight where always my favourite... I hope that this won't change soon...

From CompUSA? :)

[argent]

Shouldn't they have removed that link from their page by now?

IdeaPad: It's great, but does it...

[Jaxoreth]

...have a sudden notion sensor?

consumer friendly

[wikinerd]

language was devised to communicate, not spread nonsense.

Re:Ordinary Motors! Common Oil!!!

[mhollis]

The US Government has taken the Lenovo computers off their list of companies to purchase from once IBM sold their micro division to them. And lots of large corporations have followed suit. Obviously, what Lenovo is doing here is trying to increase their now-reduced market share by going with a re-branding of their consumer laptop.

I don't think they're going to succeed. They aren't being seen as a "First Tier" computer manufacturer any more and they're being compared to the likes of Acer.