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No Dual-Boot XO Laptop, According to Microsoft
Yesterday, we discussed reports of Microsoft and the OLPC project working towards a dual-boot version of the XO laptop. Now, BetaNews tells us that Microsoft has issued statements denying such plans. The software giant has also reaffirmed their intention to develop a Windows-only version of the laptop. Microsoft's statement to BetaNews had this to say:
"While we have investigated the possibility in the past, Microsoft is not developing dual-boot Windows XP support for the One Laptop Per Child's XO laptop. As we announced in December, Microsoft plans to publish formal design guidelines early this year that will assist flash-based device manufacturers in designing machines that enable a high-quality Windows experience. Our current goal remains to provide a high-quality Windows experience on the XO device."
I think most folks would be happy just to get a high-quality Windows experience on any computer.
More than 60,000 Windows programs won't run on Linux.
That sentence is just dripping with oozy goozy Microsoft sales sauce.
... a high-quality Windows experience ...
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Didn't see this coming...
"The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever..."
Doesnt surprise me that Microsoft doesnt want a competitor on the same machine in an Emerging market. I am really curious about this "high quality windows experience" though.....
I heard the stumbling block in getting "a high-quality Windows experience" on the XO laptop was the damn "View Source" button on the keyboard.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
For those unaware of the program, it is very similar to Microsoft's WGA program in that it disables your computer when you try to run Windows, but it is designed specifically for the XO laptop and the OLPC program. "WDA", or "Windows Disingenuous Advantage" adds the same ability to reduce or cancel functionality in the XO laptop that we presently enjoy in computers running Windows XP or worse.
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Finally, after more than 20 years of waiting, I can have a high-quality Windows experience.
For those who can't click the link:
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I can only hope they plan to redefine the interface on top of the Windows core (e.g. like they do in ATMs), because the default Windows interface would be absolutely terrible for a laptop given to a child.
So would any windowing interface, which is why OLPC spent so much time developing an alternative interface that is decent for education.
Let's see what Microsoft puts on top of Windows...let's see if they actually care about children and what is best for education. If this laptop boots into the standard Windows desktop, I'll assume they have no clue about what is good for a child and are just in it to preserve their monopoly.
"Microsoft killed my company, I hold a personal grudge. I don't use Microsoft products and neither should you."-JWZ
... lets start passing rumors that MS is befriending Linux....
"The main barrier is that the XO has only 1 GB of built-in memory and no hard drive, Utzschneider reportedly said. Accordingly, Microsoft has been exploring the idea of building Windows and Office on a 2 GB add-in card, but this would require writing new BIOS software for booting directly from the SD card."
Cryptographically signed firmware is a bitch... Seems that the whole anti-theft system built into the XO is going to get in the way of Microsoft hijacking the project without OLPC's express consent.
It won't work. If you remove the Windows UI then you remove the value (from Microsoft's perspective) of the machines running Windows: millions of children growing up thinking the Windows UI is how a computer is supposed to work.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Yeah, I find it rather ironic that Microsoft can't just install because of Trusted computing features!
Anyhow, Windows can't dual boot because:
a) Windows is sooo huge and bloated that it can't fit on as it is, let alone with having another OS
b) In the native state, the OLPC has OpenFirmware, it does not have any legacy BIOS
My little Linux and tech blog
The project involves replacing Linux with Windows, and then reverting back if necessary. There is more info here (near the bottom).
Um, did the mod read parent's post in it's entirety?
I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
You have not been paying attention, there are real children who have them NOW in brazil and nigeria and a few other countries.
Sure they have not had the huge orders and roll outs yet but the fact that it exists now in pilot programs is something.
If they can make a stripped down version run on an XO, can I please have that same version for my PC?
For those who can't click the link: Did he really say "....and have no reason to believe it won't be implemented." ????
I thought he was supposed to be an intelligent and informed kind of person? Call me a troll if you must, but that just sounds so naive that it must be a trap being set for Microsoft to have proven reason to never let MS near another child in the developing world ever again?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
A computer without Windows is like chocolate cake without mustard.
Why are the OLPC people using resources assisting a billion dollar cooperation in a field where that cooperation is supposed to be a specialist? If all the XO technical issues have been solved, then they paste fire the unneeded engineers and save fiscal resources -- or is Microsoft giving money to the OLPC project for this service?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
* (ballmer/msoft?)
What a cosmic implosion for all that banter and bickering in yesterday's thread. Any bets on msoft being DeepGoat (the Deepthroat) source of the leak?
Just like naval vessels, it seems we have rumour for EVERY occasion, hehehehe.
But, here's truth, Stevie B:
I LOVE my Linux Experience, thank you very much (despite some hickups). I have ALTFAA (A Laptop For An Adult), and I'm experiencing:
http://www.cad-schroer.com/index.php?screen=1&land=com
EVEN THOUGH I just bought a vista-harboring Gateway laptop, and even though I bought Punch! CAD and TurboCAD. Cad-Schroer has a few things for me to wrap my brain around, and the Linux client is UNIXy, but if ever I want to use the *dows client, I can do that too.
Too bad not many other companies in CAD provide a free (for personal use) Linux binary/rpm.
So, stevie, you're NOT welcome in MY double-ring. I like them working the way nature intended, "unchallenged"...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Slashdot mods probably won't like it because it's utterly false. They're weird like that.
Here's an article from less than 3 weeks ago about exactly that. It's on some site with a weird name ("colon slash slash dot dot org org org" or something), so I don't blame you for not seeing it.
"More established tech" would be an order of magnitude more expensive, not work reliably in the environments where their target audience lives, and be virtually unusable by them as well. To use your space flight analogy, it would be like trying to fly a 747 at an altitude of 200 miles and calling it a space shuttle.
Can only things which make it to low earth orbit be revolutionary? OK, let's compare it to the space shuttle. The space shuttle was built to bring down the price of lifting a pound into orbit from $1000 down to $20-50; even after a few decades, it's well over $100/pound (3x more than planned). Huge failure?
Maybe another personal computer would be a better comparison. The Macintosh was originally supposed to bring Lisa-friendly computing from $10,000 down to $500. They took about 5 years, and shipped at $2500 (5x more than planned). (They're also the only personal computer maker from the early 1980's I know of who is still in business.) Huge failure?
The OLPC was built to bring the price of a laptop from $1000 to $100; in less than 3 years, it's less than $200 (2x more than planned), plus they've actually shipped. That's the kind of "huge failure" the rest of the industry is jealous of.
If I was your wife, I would want a divorce. Fortunately for both of us, both are as untrue as your rant.
It is reported that they will want $3 a copy for XP and Office
In most countries that would be called 'dumping'.
Microsoft Bob, anyone?
enable a high-quality Windows experience
Let's see what Elvis has to say about that:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YikMhfKmBrY
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Wow, not one xbill joke or reference that i've seen so far
I think moderating you "flamebait" was a tad bit harsh for just sharing your opinion. However, the process of donating is quite simple. I'm no Bill Gates philanthropist, but how is this any different than sponsoring a child through World Vision or Christian Children's Fund? The only change I would like to see from OLPC is to receive some sort of contact information with the child I already sponsored, much like CCF offers. The real question you have to ask yourself is
Are you down with OLPC? Yeah, you know me.
Who's down with OLPC? Every slashdotie.
I just wish I could buy one for myself, even at twice the price would be nice. They could use the spare $200 for another donation or roll the "profit" back into lowering costs or something. There's something novel about the XO which is alluring to me as a gadget monkey. I'd gladly donate my ownership of it to some inner city kids locally after I built up my Popeye arm for a bit. I want to look like Reggie from "Lady in the Water". You down with OLPC?
I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
I was looking at developing software for an innovative pen-based computer system named go!. It was cool, it was radically different, and when they started lining up real interest, suddenly Microsoft had "Pen Windows!" Support dropped away like autumn leaves. How could someone competing with Microsoft succeed? My bet is that Microsoft is making lots of noise saying that XP will be on the XO, and use that as a stalling method. Governments and institutions will wait for Windows XO, before buying the XO, thus depriving the OLPC non-profit for income to "break even" and continue operation. They have to make some money, right? Otherwise they'd give it away for free. Nothing Microsoft or the Gates Foundation does is for the common good. It is alway for profitable or anti-competitive. Always. Never forget that. I have been in this industry too long and I have seen too many things for anyone to convince me otherwise.
Lots of luck, guys. According to reports... nobody's getting even a positive experience on the XO, much less a high-quality anything.
Maybe if the Classmate's price comes down, the concept will finally work out.
So much anti-windows/anti-ms mentality. I mean, I've listen to this for since Windows 1.0.
Windows OS is like a petrol car.
-It might not be the safest way to travel.
-It might have all these safety features, but none protecting it from carjackings or from a tree falling on it or from someone steeling the 'rims' off it.
-There are plenty of other ways to travel besides it.
But when it comes down to it, everyone is going to use it.
Just got mine, it's smaller than the OLPC, with a nice lightweight Linux OS. This is a great little machine with a QWERTY keyboard that is actually usable (typing this on it now) VGA out, 3 USB 2 ports, multi-card reader, full version of Firefox and OpenOffice, etc.
I thought ATMs use IBM's OS/2? Do you actually know which banks use Windows ATMs? I'd rather not trust my credit card details to their software, all things being equal.
There's an edit source button on the XO. In the Sugar environment it pulls up the source code of the current program for editing. In order to teach these waifs proper respect for the sacred and occult art of programming, it will be replaced with a device that delivers a mild electric shock. Of course, no matter how many times they press it nothing else will happen because unlike an operating system the Windows operating environment comes with neither source code nor a compiler.
Before being permitted to operate their Microsoft Enhanced XO systems they must be taught the proper rituals of Windows Update, Antivirus Update, Virus Removal, Patch Tuesday and Troubleshooting Wednesday. These will be provided by a Microsoft authorized Training Center and will be four days of rigorous training followed by a certification exam and be offered for only $2300 per student.
Because some of the XOs might be used in an isolated environment until Microsoft figures out this "mesh networking", the Microsoft Enhanced XO will have its malware preinstalled.
Mesh networking is provisionally anticipated to be delivered in 2012, and a secure network stack is not expected ever.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
If Microsoft put the XBox team in charge of coming up with a version of Windows for the XO, then it would probably fit onto the flash disk and have a usable interface.
Indeed. And, surprise surprise, by accommodating Microsoft a big fat security hole is introduced.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I thought the goal of OLPC is to provide an (cheap) open platform for educational purpose for third-world country. Now, I don't see how any MS involvement can be classified as open (unless hell freezes over, I suppose). Shouldn't OLPC clarify this point in some near future?? Clear the rumor already!!
Now, MS can develop a flavor of Windows that runs on XO. All the power to them. However, no way should that be the endorsed OLPC configuration since it's not open. That said, MS can of course offer some sorts of easy install solid-state storage media to the user of OLPC. OLPC should not offer support for it though. Just like Dell wouldn't offer me support, when they heard that I gutted the original XP installation and installed linux. Surely MS can offer software (even hardware) support. I don't see much incentive, moneywise, to support few million computers that you don't really sell the software to for any value. Surely, one can argue that then these kids would grow up using Windows, but 10+ years of support is not cheap...
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
Apparently, the duct tape holding the dual-boot beta didn't work as expected.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm still waiting for that on *my* system.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Just take Bart's PE...
???
Profit!
And we don't need much M$ for this...
Hey, maybe M$ should license Bart's...
(bahahahahahahaha!)
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Heh, well most of them unfortunately. It's easier to Google for blue-screening ATMs (since it hasn't happened just once).
"Microsoft killed my company, I hold a personal grudge. I don't use Microsoft products and neither should you."-JWZ
NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
ALSO, CAPS-LOCK IS ANNOYING.
In my mind, the real question is, what happened to the whole Open and Free policy that the OLPC program claimed to maintain. They turned down Microsoft (originally) and Apple. However, now seem to be more then happy to work with Microsoft. WTF? Has Openness and Freedom been thrown out the Window? What happened to allowing the kids to extend the laptops? To not locking them in? I don't know what's going on, but I'll bet that large quantities of money were slipped under the table. Unfortunately, it seems everyone has a price.
"Microsoft struggles to port Windows to a device originally conceived to run Linux."
If you had told me, in the 90s, that it would eventually happen, I would have never believed you.
Retard, learn to read and write. Inbred redneck hillbilly.
Shhh. Please don't give them any ideas which might actually work!
Put identity in the browser.
Yes, but what if... OLPC are quietly stringing MS along with no intention of putting Windoze on the machine, whilst in the meantime getting thousands of laptops out there into the real world. Once the laptop (with it's splendid open source operating system) is out there in sufficient enough numbers, OLPC can tell MS to disappear back under their rock, safe in the knowledge that other avenues for indoctrinating the masses have long since closed.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
Microsoft have pushed OS/2 out of the ATM market by building some security features into the embedded xp to appeal to ATM manufacturers.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
They're also the only personal computer maker from the early 1980's I know of who is still in business.
Then you don't know your history very well.
A small company you may have heard of called IBM made personal computers in around 1984. They're very much in business.
That is a VERY good point :-)
Insert
To be fair the home brew folks are not doing it in order to open a market and make a profit.
A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
The problem with OLPC is that it makes good *political* news, so as long as the OLPC guys keep that in mind they should be OK.
:-).
I'm going to make a phone call to put a few things into gear. If I manage to pull off what I plan, Microsoft won't matter that much anymore, so I hope the people I'm calling will bite
Insert
Undoing a bad moderation
But because of the nature of the donation, it isn't the child's XO.
Do you remember all the people (probably included you) who said at the beginning "yeah, and within three weeks you'll see these up on eBay". Well, you can stop that by making sure it is less effective than the versions you release to donators in the west in the G1G1 program and make the one you get unlocked and the one you give locked.
Who would want the locked version when it's the same price?
A small company you may have heard of called IBM made personal computers in around 1984. They're very much in business.
IBM is no longer a personal computer maker, so in that sense they are out of business.
I think the statement is right. Apple is the only personal computer maker from the early 80's that's still in the same business pretty much in the same form they were then (only bigger).
Then comes everything they do must be in the public interest. NEXT comes profit to shareholders and then paying the workers. Customers come last as mere customers, though they get a shot in it as the public too.
MS will implement it to get the signoff. Then a "security issue" will be discovered and the facility removed by a "genuine advantage" update.
It's called stream of thought jackass.
This is slashdot, not a research paper. I don't proofread.
Gone!
They are going to use the time-tested Microsoft Bob interface
You were okay until you dragged the Gates foundations into it.
What do you think the Gates foundation is? Nothing more than a "charity" to provide altruistic seeming bribes to governments when Microsoft is being challenged. Trust me, the foundation is nothing more than a tool of the "robber baron" Gates. A separate and "independent" institution that can funnel funds which would be illegal or damaging for Microsoft to do publicly.
The foundation may, occasionally, do something that seems altruistic, but every "front" for illegal activity still has to conduct legal commerce to establish legitimacy, the gates foundation is no different, it has to do some actual charity work to hide its true purpose.
Look carefully at the business dealings in the nations in which the Gates foundation contributes and look at the nature of the contributions and the overall results of Microsoft's business dealings.
Lastly, the Gates foundation is taking money essentially stolen from end-user's by Microsoft's illegal maintenance of their monopoly. Most everyone who uses a personal computer contributes in some way to Microsoft's bottom line BECAUSE of their illegal activity. Now, to turn that stolen money over to a charity to absolve guilt and improve public opinion is disgusting.
The problem is that CEOs of various products (OLPC, google, etc) don't know which OSS programmers are the good ones and which are the jokers. Those who know and are big names, would rather recommend themselves to these CEOs and say "yay boss, I can do it, OSS and all". Then they hope they will coordinate a community of the best OSS programmers to work for them while they make fame and money. In this case, they were left alone to complete the task and that's why while the hw was ready 5 years ago, the sw took so long and it still sucks. I hope Sim City runs on linux tho.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
But if the Xbox team were put in charge, wouldn't the UI just be a big red ring?
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
This is slashdot, not digg or reddit. I do proofread.
The "view source" key combination doesn't seem to work, at least not on the G1G1 machines, or at least I haven't had any luck with it so far.
It displays the HTML source of a web page, but doesn't appear to do anything at all anywhere else. I'm referring to fn + space (the "gear" symbol).
Too bad, as it was one of the most intriguing features of the XO. I'm not sure quite what happened.
I don't really think Microsoft bribed anyone at OLPC to sabotage it...
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
That's a strawman, the parent to your comment never said anything like that.
I know I missed the boat on the deal, but I would like to procure one to play with and donate to my brother's school (he's a teacher). Is there a way I can do so?
I think it would be the perfect Oxymoron for Bill G at Microsoft
Give poor kids all over the world including Africa wintel systems that will drive them mad with illogical frustrations
Then use his charity to fund psychological damage done
Seems like a nice way to keep the money moving in a big circle
ideapete
Nor should it.
Kids who learn Windows should also learn Windows - all we need is to remove them the ability to use Windows in addition to Linux.
In my last neighbourhood, we had 2 ATM's that regularly crashed. You can imagine my surprise when one day I walked up to see a Windows NT login screen! Unfortunately I couldn't find CTRL, ALT or DEL. :(
If Microsoft put the XBox team in charge of coming up with a version of Windows for the XO, then it would probably fit onto the flash disk and have a usable interface.
Depends if Microsoft wants to kill the XO the same way it wants to kill the PC.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Good point.
Gone!
Whilst over the years computers have grown more compact, and display sizes are varied without argument, there remains widespread majority preference for one aspect: the 'normal' proportions of a keyboard.
The squashed keyboards/keypads on mobile/handheld devices and on Eee PC may be useful, but they're not as useful, easy or widely-appreciated as a normal-sized keyboard.
For devices with squashed or no keyboards: there exist, as peripherals, plenty of normal-size projected or peripheral foldaway/fabric keyboards.
For devices with normal keyboards: I know no-one who prefers to use a sqaushed peripheral alternative (though there are probably very rare cases when people do so).
I guess that normal-sized keyboards are ergonomcally good and it does seem that XO fits.
Why use an inferior tool (squashed keyboard) for learning --which is what the XO and OLPC are all about -- if it's near-inevitable that sooner or later, you'll require additional learning -- to use a device that truly fits one's fingers whilst typing)? As you learn through doing so I can't view Eee PC as an ideal device for learners.
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not disrespecting the Eee PC in itself. A colleague has one, and he loves it, and I realise its usefulness, but the keyboard is peculiarly small and I can't view Eee PC hardware as a recommended substitute for XO.
Best,
Graham