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George Lawrence Photography Revisited

danlor writes "We were all taken aback 4 years ago when someone linked us the history of George Lawrence and his photos of the aftermath of the 1906 San Fransisco earthquake. I personally thought to myself: man, I would love to make one of those cameras. The idea of flying 2,000-pound cameras with kites... Well, someone has actually recreated the feat. They even provide links to get large prints of the original and recreated scenes."

62 comments

  1. Recreate? by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Funny

    They forgot one thing: the earthquake...

    1. Re:Recreate? by PrinceAshitaka · · Score: 2, Funny

      They just have to wait a bit.

      --
      quis custodiet ipsos custodes
    2. Re:Recreate? by baldass_newbie · · Score: 3, Funny

      They forgot one thing: the earthquake...

      I think their server is getting one hell of a simulation right now.
      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    3. Re:Recreate? by rolfc · · Score: 1

      I think so, I couldn't see the photo. Only the pricelist. ;)

    4. Re:Recreate? by keysersoze_sec · · Score: 1

      I think their server is getting one hell of a simulation right now. Or... their server is running an OS dating from 1906.
    5. Re:Recreate? by plnrtrvlr · · Score: 5, Funny

      They forgot the kites too.... That was the most amazing part of the original photographs! Somehow the helicopter doesn't amaze me quite as much.

    6. Re:Recreate? by craagz · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Move over San Fransisco...Here comes Boston XKCD already has recreated this for Boston

    7. Re:Recreate? by stoofa · · Score: 1

      They forgot the kites too.... That was the most amazing part of the original photographs! Somehow the helicopter doesn't amaze me quite as much.

      If they'd had 15 helicopter strung together then maybe...

    8. Re:Recreate? by stoofa · · Score: 1

      And, of course, "15 helicopter" would have been very impressive... both one and many at same time. Must start actually reading the preview screen.

  2. Boring by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

    They used a helicopter, not kites. Cheaters.

    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    1. Re:Boring by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      If you're going to use helicopters, at LEAST string together fifteen of them!

    2. Re:Boring by NekoXP · · Score: 1

      Isn't it weird to think of a time in the world when there was no such thing as a helicopter?

  3. Helicopter! by rxmd · · Score: 0, Redundant

    They apparently used a helicopter instead of a series of kites, which makes the "recreation" somewhat boring.

    --
    As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
    1. Re:Helicopter! by TFer_Atvar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's was my first thought, too, but look at it this way: They used a century-old camera, with the great-grandson of the original photographer in the helicopter, using the exact same lenses and photographic techniques. You might ding them for the helicopter -- I congratulate them for everything else.

    2. Re:Helicopter! by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      "ding them" isn't strong enough of a term, it seems like using the kite was the most amazing part of the entire feat. traffic reporters are showing us aerial photographs from helicopters every day, so it's the method that would be novel. if they posted this as an article about someone building a replica camera (the challenging bit that they did do!) i'm not sure it'd make the cut on anything but a slow news day

  4. 2,000 lbs? by Dan100 · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to TFA, the camera weighed only a rather less impressive 46 lbs.

    1. Re:2,000 lbs? by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, weird summary. You can't lift 2000lb with a kite. According to wikipedia, the same gentleman was responsible for building the world biggest ever camera at 1400lb so maybe that's where the confusion comes from.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    2. Re:2,000 lbs? by HangingChad · · Score: 1

      According to TFA, the camera weighed only a rather less impressive 46 lbs.

      46 pound camera + a 6 lb weight for stability. Still somewhat short of 2,000 lbs.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    3. Re:2,000 lbs? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      I've seen process cameras that certainly weigh more than 1400 pounds. Or are we talking about 'cameras that have a handle'? In that case it would be easy to mount a handle on said process cameras.

    4. Re:2,000 lbs? by nagora · · Score: 2, Funny

      The film weighed 1948lbs, dummy!

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    5. Re:2,000 lbs? by Bertie · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, I dunno. There's a school of thought that the ancient Egyptians used 'em to raise obelisks. This guy tried it out and got a three-ton obelisk vertical in a few seconds.

  5. 2000 lbs...or 46 lbs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The summary says the camera was 2,000 pounds, the link says it was 46 pounds.

  6. Server Quake by thegermanpolice · · Score: 0

    Judging by Service Denied messages the server's been taken out by an earthquake too.

  7. Fine Print by EdIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Talk about misleading. Recreated?

    "Although flying kites should be the method of choice, more important is to obtain the correct image. Air space restrictions, and common sense required the use of a helicopter. The new image was shot from the exact location as Lawrence achieved in 1906."

    That is according to the new photographers. I just love their usage of the word "exact". Uh huh. Not to mention a helicopter was used instead of a kite.

    The original page states a 46 pound camera, but the article states 2000 pounds.

    "I'm sure the Mr. Lawrence would have used a helicopter if it had been available. We had a wonderful side trip"

    I don't doubt that. The article is misleading and contradictory, and I did not see what I thought I was going to see. What they accomplished is pretty neat, and certainly good photography, but not groundbreaking or particularly mind blowing.

    I just feel like the ol' bait and switch gag has been played on us

    1. Re:Fine Print by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

      I was just about to post the same thing.

      The photos that the dude with the kites originally took are awesome achievements if you take into account the way pictures were developed back then, but like you said, this is a way misleading article.

      I was waiting for the actual part where they hoisted a home-made box camera (not hard to make, I made several...) onto a kite.

      This suxors...

    2. Re:Fine Print by dave420 · · Score: 3, Informative

      They recreated the photos, not the actual taking of the photos.

    3. Re:Fine Print by SargentDU · · Score: 1

      You are right, now you do it the correct way, that will show them!

    4. Re:Fine Print by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Apparently YOU did not read the article or my post. This was misleading. That is why it was disappointing.

      As one of the other posters pointed out, there was a difference between recreating the photo, and recreating the ACT of taking the photo.

      I already said, it was a good photo (even though the website is down and I can't see it), but it is not groundbreaking, and it is not represented by the language of the article.

      Point in fact, I COULD make the photograph. Just get a buddy with a helicopter, GPS, and we're off. What's so impressive about that?

      If somebody from Star Trek decided to "recreate" the moon landing, it would not be that impressive if they used a suit and a transporter. If they actually recreated the rocket, moon lander, etc. and then performed the original act... that might be considered a true recreation of that act, and be all the more impressive.

      So while, I could attempt to recreate the kites, photographic equipment, find the right locations..... what I would rather do is tell people exactly what I am doing so they understand.

      To make another analogy, it would be like saying I was going to recreate Evil Knievels famous motorcycle stunt and then to do that with safety wires.

      So you can be snippy about it all you want, but it does not change the fact that we all got the journalistic bait and switch from these guys.

  8. 2,000 feet, not pounds. by ParnBR · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary is wrong. It defies common sense that someone would be flying a 907kg (2,000lb, for SI-impaired ones) anything on a kite. Actually, the camera had around 21kg (46lb), as stated by TFA. But the kite was flying around 610m (2,000ft) high, and this is where I think the figure came from.

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    1. Re:2,000 feet, not pounds. by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      for SI-impaired ones

      Not to start a metric flamewar, but the people impaired with SI are likely the ones who would need the translation- from lbs to kgs.

    2. Re:2,000 feet, not pounds. by ParnBR · · Score: 1

      Hey, I kind of agree with you. Learning everything in decimal units make imperial units seem illogical and annoying, and in a certain way this is a limitation of a decimal way of thinking. =) Usually I just take the easy route and make 1kg=2lb, 3ft=1m and so on. Despite the errors, it works fine for me since I can't tell apart a 4lb weight from a 2kg one. ^^ Since I was going to reply anyway, I decided to go the extra 1.6km =P and translate the units for people like me.

      --
      My neighbor's .sig is better than mine.
    3. Re:2,000 feet, not pounds. by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      Same here. I usually just round 2000 feet to 2000 lbs, and the margin of error is too small to matter.

      Now back my calculations for the next Mars mission...

  9. Coral Cache by Aaron+Isotton · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Coral Cache by Aaron+Isotton · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here are all the important links (I thought coral cache would rewrite the links, but it doesn't): http://www.ronkleinphotos.com.nyud.net/Lawrence.html http://www.ronkleinphotos.com.nyud.net/success.html http://www.ronkleinphotos.com.nyud.net/lawrenceorderform.html Please mod parent redundant.

  10. Coral Cache seems to work by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Links:
    http://www.ronkleinphotos.com.nyud.net:8090/Lawrence.html
    http://www.ronkleinphotos.com.nyud.net:8090/success.html

    PS. Install the Slashdotter extension for Firefox, does the CC links automagically.

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    1. Re:Coral Cache seems to work by Icculus · · Score: 1

      FYI, it is no longer necessary to add the goofy port stuff on there. Seems to work fine by just adding "nyud.net" to the end of the hostname.

    2. Re:Coral Cache seems to work by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      Ah, it seems that whoever made the Slashdotter extension should update it then. I never go through the Coral Cache site these days. :)

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  11. 2000 pounds? by kylegordon · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's nearly a tonne... the article states that the camera is approx 46 pounds. Submitters... please rtfa before submitting. And if you did, then pay attention to it.

    1. Re:2000 pounds? by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      That's nearly a tonne...

      That is a tonne. An imperial tonne that is.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    2. Re:2000 pounds? by nagora · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That is a tonne. An imperial tonne that is.

      There's no such thing. An imperial ton is 2240lbs (20 hundred-weight of 8 stone each). The reason for the odd numbers is that measurements grew out of a system for trade which allowed for the weight of barrels. So a hundred-weight of 112lbs was supposed to be 100lbs of actual cargo and 12lbs of packaging.

      The American system discared the packing allowances and so the American "short" ton is 2000lbs.

      TWW

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    3. Re:2000 pounds? by Lumpy · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Camera weighed 46 pounds.

      Film was much heavier back then.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  12. FAA. by Tavor · · Score: 1

    You have to remember back then there was no FAA. Getting clearance to fly a helicopter in one spot is one thing, but try getting the FAA, the wind, and positioning to conspire just for this. For that matter, try getting past the FAA with a huge kite without being laughed out of the office.

    --
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    1. Re:FAA. by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, and so the 'feat' isn't anything comparable.

    2. Re:FAA. by timelorde · · Score: 1


      Maybe they could have asked this guy for some help: http://home.earthlink.net/~quade/lawnchair.html/

  13. The 3 years after photo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They really got things done right in the early 1900's, i wonder what New Orleans will look like next august.

    1. Re:The 3 years after photo by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that pushing all of the rubble into the bay and then building on it was the best long-term development plan considering the future earthquake potential.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:The 3 years after photo by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      Thats what I thought, and those aren't some little shacks they've managed to build either but an awful lot of proper stone buildings by the look of it.

  14. Next Up by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Funny

    Next recreation: The Battle of Thermopylae, only we'll be using M1 Abrams Tanks instead of Spartans.

    1. Re:Next Up by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

      Well, 300 M1 Abrams' against 150.000 persian troops from 700 B.C is definately an unfair match. You don't even have to shoot at them. Just run them over. Alright, you MIGHT have to shoot at the elephants and rhinos, but ...

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    2. Re:Next Up by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      I like to think a single M1 would survive quite well against 150k light infantry armed with spears and clubs... though eventually the blood rivers would bog down the tank. maybe someone will put it on PayPerView only using spammers instead of Persians.

  15. Kites... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

    The summary is wrong. It defies common sense that someone would be flying a 907kg (2,000lb, for SI-impaired ones) anything on a kite. Actually, the camera had around 21kg (46lb), as stated by TFA. But the kite was flying around 610m (2,000ft) high, and this is where I think the figure came from. I also doubt the a kite can carry 2000lb, but kites can still carry quite a load. During the years leading up to WWI observation baskets lifted by a string of kites were used for artillery spotting. Kites were later abandoned in favor of kite-balloons and aircraft but a pure kite could still lift at least one observer, his equipment and even a passenger. Some of the systems used were pretty similar to the one seen in the drawing on that page linked to in TFA except of course the kites were much larger. These systems actually saw some use during WWI. The altitude is about right though, 2000-2500 feet with a 4000 foot cable.
    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  16. lead kite! by ionymous · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not only were the cameras weighing 45+ pounds each, but the kite itself was made of lead!! (See illustration) http://activetectonics.asu.edu/kites/06eq.html

    1. Re:lead kite! by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not only were the cameras weighing 45+ pounds each, but the kite itself was made of lead!! (See illustration) http://activetectonics.asu.edu/kites/06eq.html While your picture refers the leading kite...I don't see how a lead (Pb) would be a problem.

      The MythBusters (production #112, 1/23/2008) have already shown that a lead balloon is quite possible - i think I would have done it slightly differently (by plying together a few layers of the lead foil they used to make a stronger foil surface), but it did work. I see no reason why a Lead (Pb) kite wouldn't be possible either, though certainly not trivial to do. (BTW, their Lead Balloon used Lead Foil and at least what appeared to be Scotch tape filled with a mixture of Helium and Air. They mixed in air because they thought they might get too much lift out of just Helium; which from their results (see the episode) they were 100% right on.)
      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  17. kite lifting by garvon · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know the the camera was was not 2000lbs
    but here is a link to show a kite CAN lift more then you think

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkAL1jTojY

  18. If it had been Available by trongey · · Score: 1

    ...I'm sure the Mr. Lawrence would have used a helicopter if it had been available... He would have used an airship if he had had the money.
    On the other hand:
    I'm sure he would have used a Leica Aviophot RC30 camera if it had been available.
    I'm sure he would have used digital post processing and multi-spectral analysis if it had been available.
    I'm sure he would have driven a Saleen S7 to the airport for the shoot - if either the Saleen or the airport had been available.
    --
    You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
  19. Modern kite photography is alive and well by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Especially with the advent of lightweight digital cameras (no more wasted film or being limited to 24/36 shots). Just google for kite aerial photography. It's got a Wikipedia entry and even a jargon wiki.

  20. It's The Camera by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For all the whining about not using kites, etc., no one has acknowledged the recreation of the camera. They did recreate a century old piece of equipment and used it to take an extremely high quality photo. I went to school from junior high through college with Ron Klein, and I guarantee that he built a meticulous reproduction of the original camera. It wouldn't surprise me if he used 100 year old brass screws to put the thing together. Let's give some props to some extremely cool retro-tech work instead of bashing it.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  21. Faster server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gigapan has the original Lawrence kite photo from after the earthquake. You can zoom in and explore. It was digitized at about 60 megapixels.

  22. Times change ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    The idea of flying 2,000-pound cameras with kites.

    I think they call those "spy satellites" nowadays.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.