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Asian Nations Battle for Google Data Center
1sockchuck writes "Google is pitting foreign governments against one another in a battle for a major new data center in Asia. In the past week, both the prime minister of Malaysia and economic minister of Taiwan have said their countries are leading candidates for the Google project, with Japan, South Korea, India and Vietnam also mentioned as contenders in an 18-nation site selection process. Google typically invests $600 million in each new data center. Tech companies often use multi-site searches as a tool to coax incentives out of local governments, which sweeten their offers to outbid rivals from other regions. Google's Asian initiative appears to be taking this strategy to a new level, coaxing heads of state to invest political capital in their lust for one of Google's mega-datacenters."
so they can use it for leverage to control the information their people can get.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a coup involved a military take over of the Google data canter like other media outlets.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Those countries that show any signs of implementing strict laws to protect the privacy of their citizens as well a enforcing strict limits upon how personally, psychological targeted marketing will be, will consider themselves right out of the running.
I would personally hope that Australia is right out of the running and remains so, it would be embarrassing to be considered a suitable data warehouse for proctology inc.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This takes Googlefight to a whole new level.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
It would be costly as bandwidth cost is high in my country. Japan I believe should be the best option.
Am i the only one who thought of battle Royale?
You mad
Next time you hear a politician bragging about how he/she pulled in "jobs" via tax breaks and the like, check out The Great American Jobs Scam (http://www.amazon.com/Great-American-Jobs-Scam-Corporate/dp/1576753158 ).
Basically, the job figures are always exaggerated and the whole thing is a ripoff for the taxpayers. If you want an example of a different "save the jobs" schtick, check out the massive half a billion dollar bill for Connecticut , or more specifically, for Electric Boat.
The article talks about "saving" jobs at Electric Boat (along with a bunch of bullshit about Keeping Up With The Joneses, aka the Chinese. Yup, you have Connecticut to thank for keeping us protected from those evil Chinese and their subs.) How many jobs at Electric Boat? 7,600. $500M divided by 7600 is roughly equal to 65 million dollars a person.
There are 3.4 million people in Connecticut, so $147/head. Isn't it a shame that Connecticut residents couldn't pony up that $150/person, themselves? Is anyone really stupid enough to think that even the slimmest percentage of that $500M will go back to the Connecticut state economy, when all EB does is slap stuff together that was made elsewhere?
I think the closest they'll come is in the form of taxes on the property taxes of Electric Boat executives' multi-million-dollar homes.
Please help metamoderate.
They've already decided, and are just using the "process" to extract whatever additional concessions they can.
Think of it, people - dependable power, lots of fibre, stable social structure ... the decision will be made on the best tech merits, not "whoever throws the most incentives at them." After all:
So, they've already decided, and they'll use this as a way to both get a few more concessions, and to help avoid bruising other countries egos - they'll find a justification "all things considered, their bid was the best."
You heard it here first.
Google will be accepting bids from those countries that can show a long term commitment to the acceptability of the invasion of privacy of others and ensuring full legal protection for the use of that private data in any way that the googlite marketdroids choose ie. profits before privacy.
What makes you think they have to leave the states to do this? We've got people losing laptops with everything from nuclear weapons documents to half a million social security numbers with no encryption on them, and far as I can see, nobody's been fined a dime or spent an hour in jail.
Please help metamoderate.
they might get a discount.
Not as corrupt as Malaysia, what's with the current political and racial instability I'm Malaysian btw
Japan as 1st choice and Taiwan & South Korea would be a toss up for second & third choice. Japan is the cutting edge for new technologies and the Japanese people have the best work ethic of any people on earth...
P.S. i am not Japanese (I am a Caucasian American)...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
So they can censor the datacenter's contents to the Chinese government's satisfaction.
expandfairuse.org
Is there a somewhat up to date list of Google's data center locations on the Web? Everything I can find is outdated.
I'm not Filipino, but I've been there a couple times and there are some reasons I can think of which make it a good place to house a data center:
;-) Of course they love Linux all over asia, but a lot of Philippines businesses are warming up to Linux. Also, they love everything about American culture there so it would be a fun place to work.
1) Filipinos speak impecibly good English with little or no accent. I have no issue understanding them.
2) Philippines is a very westernized place; it would be easy for a western-based company to work or conduct business there.
3) They love Linux in the Philippines
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
I wouldn't be surprised if the great fire wall blocks this for referring to Taiwan as a country. Just a thought.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
Actually, its $65,789.48 per job, or $14.00 per person. Since this will generate 3 years' work for each job, it works out to about $21,000 per year per job. I'd imagine these jobs pay decent wages, and the government IS getting another sub out of the deal (which has to be worth something - so deduct ... I dont know - half?) Is it worth $10k a year to keep 7,600 jobs? Basically, it probably means the feds are just putting the taxes they collect back into the local economy.
do as you are trained... and kill the malaysian prime minister!
Just as planned.
India and Vietnam won't work - power supply issue. Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, expensive real-estate-wise.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
After all the hoopla about microsoft this and microsoft that for the last 20 years of my life, when does the google hunt begin? Seriously, these people are building what looks to be a NWO under the guise of a concerned corporation. Maybe my tin foil hat has been on too long, but corporations have long since run the U.S. government. is google trying to achieve world domination but do it with your support and well wishes... Since they aren't microsoft.
"What do we get for ten dollars?"
"Everything you want."
Everything that touches China gets reserve-engineered in a matter of months. Try getting the government to crack down on such clones and you'll find out how useless it is.
I would think twice before storing *any* valuable information on China-based servers.
/signed
And worse, we have the NEP, a socio-economic program which will ensure that you will have to racistly commit a big chunk of any money you spend locally to incompetent companies run by cronies of the ruling government.
As a Malaysian geek i would love to see a Google data center in my back yard. But as a decent human being, i would urge them to stay the hell away.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
I live in North Carolina and all this has come up recently with one they are building here. Basically, these are very poor tools for job creation. Only a very few employees of the data centers are highly paid engineers; most of the employees do relatively low-paying (for the IT industry, anyway) jobs of HW maintenance and site maintenance. Even if the jobs were halfway decent, even those huge data centers just don't need very many people to run them. In a shop like Google's, where the servers consist of rack after rack of the exact same thing, there just isn't much of the high change-ticket volume that drives the work at most corporate data centers.
Personally, I disagree very strongly with the sweetheart deal that they were handed here in NC. They are getting more-or-less complete freedom from taxes for a great many years on the facility, while sucking fairly large amounts of power out of the local grid, using not-plentiful water for cooling, and creating very few jobs. Little to none of the high-paying jobs will come out of the local labor pool.
SirWired
Er... Politically unstable? You haven't seen politically unstable, my friend. I am a Taiwanese living abroad (in Canada to be exact), and seriously, Taiwan is like a lily pad in comparison to other places in the world. It has free elections, which while rife with controversy, does not approach anything I would consider political instability. It certainly beats a communist dictatorship - your pet politician getting voted out of office is a lot less damaging than a full-out military coup!
Taiwan has its own problems with corruption, but where is this information on #4 most corrupt? I don't buy it. You want to compare yourself to political backwaters like most of Africa? Or do you want to compare yourself to China, a country with an even worse track record for corruption? At least Taiwan's political incompetence is contained to its legislative branch, the concept of rule of law barely exists in China.
Taiwan isn't too bad of a choice, though IMHO they're better off sticking it in Japan.
I`m not necessarily saying that Google's tactics here are evil but damn, strategies and actions like this certainly aren't resounding endorsements of that policy. I also noticed that no one else seems to have brought the policy up. Have we all just given up on the slogan? No one even bothers to call them out on it anymore? I wish I could still believe but it looks like everyone has lost faith in the apparently too idealistic policy.
Favourable : India: User-pop/Democracy/English/Economy/Laws
While I'm sure Taiwan is crap country to live in, like you said. There does appear to be 145 countries more corrupt than Taiwan: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html It's leaders are not listed in the top 10 heads of state and it doesn't even get a mention in the Forbes most corrupt countries feature
However, because of people like you live there, I'll second that call to skip Taiwan. ;-)
M0571y H@rml355.
Seriously, why not Iraq? What better way to give their economy the kick in the ass it needs than to put Google's "All Your Base" datacenter there? A strong economy will stabilize Iraq, allowing us to get our people home, not to mention cementing relations between them and us.
Anybody want my mod points?
I have a feeling we will see corporate taxes fall as more companies threaten to outsource jobs. It is a sweet threat: cut our taxes and get 5% of something, or get 35% of nothing. I'm not sure how much I like that...
Then again, in industries the country has COMPLETELY lost, why not zero out the taxes, since we aren't earning them anyways. A few come to mind: Textile assembly (where is that shirt/pants/corset you are wearing made?) and shipping. We have maybe 200 ocean-going ships that are US flagged, and most of them are somehow government affiliated through the Military Sealift Command. Why don't we zero the taxes US-registered Jones Act ocean going ships pay, and see how much it helps domestic industry. Shipyards grow, ships run under US environmental regs, some high paying mariner jobs are created...All around, good stuff.
I still don't like holding jobs hostage for corporate tax cuts though. Perhaps we should close some loopholes that make off-shoring a tax benefit. That is a subject for another time though.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
It's extremely unfortunate that Taiwan still has this reputation as a backwards nation and demonstrates the ignorance Americans have regarding the nation.
Unfortunately it's really the fault of the Taiwanese government and it's companies. The government has done a piss poor job of promoting the nation. They have an agency dedicated to promoting Taiwan's industry, the Taiwan External Trade Development Council (TAITRA) which I've had the misfortune of dealing with on a few occasions; it's run by inept bureaucrats who lack imagination and commonsense.
The second problem is that Taiwanese people and companies in particular are exceedingly cheap. It's not so much that they cut corners like the Chinese do, but rather that they're not willing to spend a dollar more than is necessary to produce an acceptable product. This means their identity and branding is utter crap. It may seem insignificant but it basically insures that few people overseas every recognize the quality of their products. Related to that is quality product design which is sorely lacking.
Taiwan and South Koreans have comparable economies, and in fact, Taiwan has a slight edge in quite a few areas. It just that the Koreans were smart enough to invest in the right areas which has enabled their success internationally. Although, Korean companies did have the benefit of enjoying extensive government support which gave them the capital and flexibility to expand. Taiwanese companies have by and large been left to fend for themselves.
Another disadvantage Taiwan has is that they're lumped together with China. China produces crap so by default it's expected that Taiwan does too. Of course, it doesn't help that cheap goods were once all manufactured in Taiwan but then that stuff was once made in Japan as well and they've long since gotten over that stigma.
Taiwan has a strong economy; it doesn't have the growth China has, but it's far more stable and nowhere near as cutthroat an environment. It's got a stable government, the political infighting is no worse than anything seen in the US. There is some corruptions, but not really much worse than the US. It's nowhere near on the level of China or the rest of south east Asia. Again, it's comparable to South Korea.
The workforce is well-educated and they're hard workers. English has been mandatory in schools for a few years now. Even without the English curriculum many people can speak it. In fact, it's quite easy to get around on English alone, although being able to speak Chinese is always an advantage. Still, you'll encounter far more people speaking English in Taiwan than you'll ever find in Japan. Go into a McDonald's in Tokyo, ask for a Big Mac and they wont know what in the hell you're talking about. It's happened to me. Go into a shop even outside the big cities in Taiwan and it's quite possible to come across someone who speaks English quite well.
Taipei has an extensive subway system that's clean and punctual. It puts the New York system to shame. They now have a high speed rail line, thanks to Japan. This is especially beneficial considering that the major technology companies base their facilities in big science parks in Western Taiwan a good distance from Taipei.
Taiwan certainly has a higher cost of living than south east Asia and China, but I think the value afforded given their experience in technology makes it worthwhile. If they lose out on this opportunity I wont be surprised to learn it's because they've failed to market themselves properly. One thing that's always impressed me there is that when they need to get something done they just do it and they do it at a good clip. They don't get mired down in legal crap like we see in the United States and projects don't run excessively late and over-budget either.
On another note, Taiwan is extremely scenic with panoramas I'd argue are on par with anything found in places like Hawaii, especially in the east and south of Taiwan. If I had the opportunity to move back I'd take it.
This kind of comes off as a bit of an advertisement but that's because I'm tired seeing Taiwan maligned by people who don't really know what they're talking about.
Japan will wipe the floor with the others. They have giant robots, demon warriors, rampaging tentacle sex monsters and Action Bastard. And the little girls of the sniper & assassination teams will thin out the competition before the real battle starts.
India has that eight armed deity and the elephant headed guy, I suppose, but, nah... Japan in one round.
I think you have mainland China and Taiwan mixed up.
eTrade SUCKS
Please, Google, Please come to Malaysia !
... Malaysia will NEVER allow any Jewish content to be stored in Malaysia. Malaysia hates Jews ! If Google comes to Malaysia, when people do searches on Jews, all they will get is a picture of a rotten Jewish corpse.
Come to Malaysia and Google would have a lot more Islamic propagandas ! When people do searches on Google on Osama Bin Laden, they would be inform that Osama is a Hero ! A Freedom Fighter ! A Saint !
But there's a catch
Please, Google, Please Come to Malaysia !
Al Qaeda needs you ! Osama Bin Laden needs you ! UMNO needs you !
Malaysia will even provide Google with information on how to make IED, RSB and most importantly, how to make a Dirty Bomb, and how to smuggle it into the United States of America !
So, Google, Please ! Please, Please Come To Malaysia !
Allah U Akbar !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I work for a company in Japan and information is one of our key assets. We have a fairly good relationship with google but what concerns quite a bit right now is the direct use (consolidation) of third party information that's slowly but surely encroaching on every single little possible market they can figure out how to intergrate into their enormous system. We are struggling now to post information on the web as all our information is short and digestable and likely to be swallowed up as a "useful features" on the side of one of these google maps searches. This isn't bad for people but, its gonna kill so many industries in the coming years. I just hope the "dont be evil" philosophy holds up 'cause I cant see this direction changing.
Haha, you mean there are areas in the US where Communist guerrilla rules? Or where militant Islamists are fighting for independence from the government with terrorist attacks, killings and kidnappings? I don't think so.
Then we have all the rotten apples:
-Malaysia: Muslim country. They allow some western media but they blacken, by hand, the bits they don't like (white bare chested ladies are their favorites). Political dissent? You would be forgiven for thinking there is any if you would watch Malaysian TV or listen to Malaysian radio. Newspapers are slightly better, but not much, they know how far they can go before been harassed. One year the government forbade political campaigning because it considered it a waste of money.
-Vietnam? Yeah, right.
-Thailand: they do military overthrows for fun.
-Singapore: they are even worst than Malaysia when it comes to independent media and political dissent. Politicians from the ruling party sue for slander or libel opposition leaders if they say they are not doing a good job. Unsurprisingly the curts always rule on their favor. They have bankrupted opposition figures this way.
-The Philippines? They don't have the infrastructure, and I would not call them stable exactly.
And the above are the not so rotten, Then we have Burma. Now that would be a great place to put a datacentre.
Lets face it folks, there are few safe heavens in South East Asia.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Asia should settle this by means of a Starcraft match.
NEP shouldnt be major obstacle for foriegn company to invest in Malaysia unless it want to be listed at Bursa.
As Malaysian, I would love to see google Data Center in Malaysia, but i prefer it's in not so rural area such as my home town Merlimau. heh.
Since google love energy convervation, Malaysia got a lot of land near sea.
Google can use free energy using wind turbine.
Google can lease land from fisherman to build a lot of wind turbine for its data center
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
I have walked in the worst places in Manila. The things you see there have no parallel in any developed country.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Wow, a huge energy drain that employs almost nobody. Where do we sign up?
Did you know Google was also responsible for that UFO sighting in Texas?
Except for the building itself, which just doesn't cost that particularly much (not that much more than any other industrial building) pretty much none of the money ends up in the local economy. If you build a data center in BFE, none of the infrastructure bits of the data center, such as the cooling, power, cabling, etc., can be locally sourced, as Random Rural County simply does not have vendors to do the work. Local firms can lay the pad, put up the walls, build the floor, provide the mains power, and build the small parking lot. After that, it is all specialty work that will have to be brought in from somewhere else.
Here in NC, the western part of the state (where the data center is being built) is currently undergoing a massive drought. The water required for large-scale chiller systems would be a fairly decent drain on the supply, if it were in place now. Even though they pay for it, that does not mean that there is no impact to them using it.
Local governments are stupid. They see "Google", and visions of their own little budding Silicon Valley dance through their heads. They just completely ignore the fact that there are pretty much no local benefits to such a facility. All they get is one more industrial building, a tiny handful of high-paying jobs (none of which will come from the local labor pool) and a slightly larger handful of decent jobs (also many of which will not come from local labor). Most communities would be better served by a corporate branch office of even a moderate size, or a smallish factory.
A $600M dollar facility WOULD trigger a decent tax infusion, if Google actually ever paid taxes on these facilities. They don't, as taxes are usually the first thing the governments waive to try and lure it there.
SirWired
if google were to build the data center in china, they would save a lot of money by upholding the chinese government's ban on the free flow of information to and from that country. that way asia could be home to google's smallest data center, a showcase for energy savings and modernism. heck, they wouldn't even have to actually run any fiber TO the google datacenter in china.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.