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Examining the Search and Seizure of Electronics at Airports
Angus McKraken brings us a Washington Post story about how travelers are seeking more well-defined policies and rules about the search and seizure of electronic devices by U.S. Customs officials. The EFF has already taken legal action over similar concerns. We recently discussed the related issue of requiring people to disclose their passwords in order to search their private data. From the Post:
"Maria Udy, a marketing executive with a global travel management firm in Bethesda, said her company laptop was seized by a federal agent as she was flying from Dulles International Airport to London in December 2006. Udy, a British citizen, said the agent told her he had 'a security concern' with her. 'I was basically given the option of handing over my laptop or not getting on that flight,' she said. 'I was assured that my laptop would be given back to me in 10 or 15 days,' said Udy, who continues to fly into and out of the United States. She said the federal agent copied her log-on and password, and asked her to show him a recent document and how she gains access to Microsoft Word. She was asked to pull up her e-mail but could not because of lack of Internet access. With ACTE's help, she pressed for relief. More than a year later, Udy has received neither her laptop nor an explanation."
Y'all just keep on sleepwalking, the government is taking care of everything...
Lets see them figure out how to access Microsoft Word without their fancy "Start" button.
If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
If you don't want your stuff taken can't you just tell them to fuck off and leave the airport. That is if you're in your own country I mean.
What a great way to find out about company secrets. And if they are on an encrypted volume? Dare you travel there anymore?
where a traveler would be better off shipping his or her laptop separately rather than trying to take it on a plane. This is starting to get out of hand: confiscating personal property without cause? What the Hell? The government must be running short on laptops, I guess. Twenty years ago I'd have said this could never happen here, if anyone had asked. Sorry to see that I'd have been wrong.
.44 Magnum and a box of cartridges in her suitcase. Nobody noticed, nobody cared, she didn't even think twice about it (I'll tell you though, had there been any boxcutter-wielding bastards on that plane she'd have killed them all. You don't know my aunt.) Can you imagine trying that today? One group of Islamic assholes causes some damage and just look at what we've done to ourselves.
In 1984, I remember my aunt flew from Chicago to Boston, with a
I'm still proud of my country but not as much as I used to be. That bothers me. What also bothers me is that bad behavior on the part of the TSA and other government organs is in danger of becoming institutionalized, which will make it very difficult to eliminate.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
When he took it and you were "guaranteed" you would get it back in a few days, ask for it in writing, on headed paper, signed by the guy who took your laptop and his supervisor.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Can't believe this happening in a country which promotes itself as a global exporter of freedom. Do Americans just sit at home and watch this as just another ironic comedy on their TVs?
And I'm pretty sure you don't get your airfare back. And you probably get on a list that makes sure it will happen every single time you ever try to fly again in the future. The stupid thing here is she did everything they asked, and they still stole her laptop. I can't see any rationalization for that.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
With all of this crap happening, I believe less people wants to do business with the united states. They got over-paranoid at trying to control what goes in-and-out of their country, and it irritates people over time. I really don't want to flamebait, but this is a racist issue? How many stories like that have we heard in the past years of people from the middle east having problem crossing the borders of the states?
While you are right doing so will take so long that you will miss your plane. In fact creating/using tight time contrainst is one of the three main ingredinence for any kind con jobs to cheat you out of your property.
Well one more reason for me to remove the US off possible holiday destinations. Of course the poor guy was on a buisiness trip and had no choice.
Martin
For what it is worth, you see examples of both being hit in this thread-- the example of the disabled elderly vet above being one.
Let's not make it about race-- it is about seizure of property without cause.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
FedEx or whatever?
They still open the package in the customs and charge you heavily just for opening it. And they can do whatever they want to with it while it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Therefore, many layers of TrueCrypt, fake data, semi-real data, and what-not else...
What does TSA stand for, anyway? Techno Stasi of America?
Ignore this signature. By order.
Isn't this just what the terrorists want? Us to fear them?
What ever happened to our liberties making us great, not our lack of them?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The answer, of course, is to rely on your employer. Let me explain.
Go ahead and fight them. I mean - do not let them search your laptop until forced to do so. Cite your company's information as the reason. Perhaps individual privacy is gone but we still have some sanctity for corporate data. It doesn't even have to be trademark/copyright/legally protected data. It just has to be data that your company deems 'private and confidential'. If people start missing flights because of over-ambitious TSA agents, eventually, businesses will start screaming about these searches....if they aren't already. Not only are they overly intrusive but they are causing losses in a very real way. Measurable losses.
Anyone from Oracle or MSFT read this post? How would you feel about your laptop being held like this? How about someone from Adobe or Boeing? What about the big-3 car companies? Consulting companies?
There are lots of businesses that require international travel and I am betting they don't want some $10.50/hr TSA employee reading your laptop anymore than you do. I expect employers to enter the fray any second now. They will not stand for this unless there are some checks and balances. They have no interest in writing off confiscated assets because of over zealous TSA agents and they are (unfortunately) our best defense.
What the terrorists want is to disrupt our lives, and cause fear. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. We have already lost the "war."
Nowadays, people who could have made a real change by marching in the streets, burning tires and protesting these horrible things, simply type away furiously, and think that someone cares.
The Internet is a microscopic, meaningless medium for message delivery, and nothing proves it better than Ron Paul. You want to make a change? Stop blogging, making videos and writing articles, and start fighting with legislation, with money, with burning tires and real 100,000 people marches. The Internet created this idiotic illusion that a bunch of people supporting each other can make a difference. Well here's your fucking wake-up call. Reality has not changed.
I am not from the US, and what's "worse" I am from Israel, but it saddens me to see your nation giving up so many values that has made it great.
AND IT'S YOUR FUCKING FAULT, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING.
My Starcraft 2 Blog
That's not a fix. That's a workaround, and a shitty one at that! The real fix is to destroy the TSA, and get our civil liberties back!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
You don't burn tires because burning tires, by itself, does anything. The government doesn't care how many tires you burn. They just shoot you with rubber bullets (or real bullets, or fire hoses) and move on.
You burn tires because when you burn tires and the government shoots you, you get in the newspaper, and the article talks about what act of the government you found so egregious that you picked a sure-to-lose fight with its better-armed agents.
There's a reason we don't use fire hoses anymore - and it's not because (directly) it's inhumane. We don't do it because it generates too much press.
The internet lets you have the same effect as burning tires without having to get shot first. The real media is lazy. They don't want to have to go down to the National Mall every time somebody burns a tire any more than you really want to go down there and burn tires. They would much prefer to sit in their comfy office, read blogs, and report on what people are blogging about. You can get the same press with blogging nowadays as you can get with tire burning.
paintball
Insist on clearing it with your FSO -- facility security officer. Call your facility security officer, and say that a TSA employee is asking for access to your laptop, and that you have no evidence of their 'need to know' to access your non-classified but limited distribution military project data. That way you have started the paper trail to be reported to DSS, at least. When you return, remember to ask your FSO if they need anything from you for a report to DSS. Hopefully you can push the whole problem to DSS, where it belongs -- they should handle unauthorized access to military data, especially if done under threat of force. They can report it to FBI and relevant military intelligence.
We're just human cattle to them. If someone really wanted to do something, he/she could just blow up the hundreds of people waiting at the bottleneck BEFORE security screening.
I hate sigs.
Let's get right to the core ... not only is this not about race, as such, it's not even about property (the Feds couldn't care less about some used pieces of consumer electronics.) It's about the information stored in them. That's what they want, for any of a number of reasons. Whether it be terrorist plans, corporate info of one kind or another, or for that matter any examples of copyright infringement they can find (and, of course, any good porn) it's all about the data. They've said as much: it's intelligence gathering.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
This is the SECOND time I've posted this advice:
Use Linux
Use and encrytped drive.
Have a "functional" environment that is unencrypted that has nothing more challenging than an email about how you think U.S. government is doing everything right and how the shrub is gods ear piece.
We need to do what the French did in WWII. When the Nazi's ask for your papers, make sure you show them nice pleasant things. Transmit everything back and forth over the internet (encrypted locally).
The Nazi movement, or The Nazis began to take over the USA starting with Roy Cohn and Senator McCarthy in the '50s, through Nixon, Reagan, Bush I/II.
Can ANYONE dispute that this description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
Does not describe what is becoming of the U.S.A, the U.K. and a lesser extent the rest of Europe?
The irony is that while Hitler and his armies were defeated in WWII, the power brokers and players that created him live on in power.
I'm pretty sure that they just want us to stop helping out Israel and get our military the hell away from their countries. Our government is technically winning because they're still doing whatever the hell they want to do, and the only cost is our freedom.
The biggest losers in this war are our children. They will get to grow up in a police state because their parents didn't have the balls to stand up and say "no more."
This isn't about "outsiders." Muslims have developed a reputation for terrorism and troublemaking (which is strictly their own fault). As a result, anyone who looks like they might be a Muslim is subjected to extra scrutiny. It's just common sense.
This isn't about "outsiders." Jews have developed a reputation for financial conspiracy and troublemaking (which is strictly their own fault). As a result, anyone who looks like they might be a Jew is subjected to extra scrutiny. It's just common sense.
This isn't about "outsiders." The Irish have developed a reputation for drunken violence and terrorism (which is strictly their own fault). As a result, anyone who looks like they might be Irish is subjected to extra scrutiny. It's just common sense.
This isn't about "outsiders." The Japanese and Germans have developed a reputation for covert operations on behalf of their homelands while living in the United States (which is strictly their own fault). As a result, anyone who looks like they might be Asian (it's too hard to tell the difference) or German is subjected to extra scrutiny. It's just common sense.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
They're trying to prevent something that's already happened.
I hate sigs.
If someone really wanted to do something, he/she could just blow up the hundreds of people waiting at the bottleneck BEFORE security screening. I guess one could make a trigger mechanism that would be set off by the metal detector itself... dammit, now I'm thinking like an engineer/terrorist!
You can't take the sky from me...
Irag II: Saddam had WMD (used it on Kurdish villagers in the 80s).
Like a true American, you not only spelled the name of the country wrong (and the Freudian subtlety of the misspelling is particularly telling), you forgot to mention a) why the US did nothing about that back in the 80s aside from affirming our "friendship" to Saddam and giving him another $1 billion in military aid right after and b) where Saddam had gotten the technology for that gas and its means of distribution. (I'll give you a hint: you were trying to defend that country's "honor")
The spread of communism was feared.
And, what happens when the spread of American-brand "democracy" is feared? It's only so long before everyone gets tired of having "freedom" bombed into them.
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
Yup. Part of the construction at one airport a couple of years ago (I think Oakland) put a couple of hundred people waiting at the baggage claim in a relatively small room with a hundred people waiting to get through security. I told my wife, "If these people are smart, they won't bother with the planes; there's a 747-load right here."
So, why aren't more people asking the various presidential candidates what they intend to do to restore the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the rule of law once elected to office?
Have gnu, will travel.
Irag II: Saddam had WMD (used it on Kurdish villagers in the 80s). Was required to get rid of it (90s), but failed to do so under UN supervision or to properly document it so that the UN could verify after the fact.
Sonny, as an American, I can tell you have been drinking the Kool-aid far too long. Did you not watch the events leading upto and after the Iraq invasion? Yah know, where they couldn't find evidence of WMD's? A little fact like that just might piss some people off.
Here is my little paranoid fantasy of why the US invaded Iraq. First, there is oil. The US has enough, but the powers that be want more. Second, there is this little quote by President George W. Bush: "After all, this is the guy that tried to kill my dad at one time." Thus a personal vendetta that has killed thousands of American solders. Killed many, many more Iraqi civilians. Left a wake of casualties.
Wake the fuck up.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Irag II: Saddam had WMD (used it on Kurdish villagers in the 80s). Like a true American, you not only spelled the name of the country wrong (and the Freudian subtlety of the misspelling is particularly telling)
Why attribute malice when overzealous software and a lack of proofreading will do? The original typo is "raq", which gets autocorrected to "rag", and the missing "I" is manually added without noting the preceding change.
There is no Freudian slip since Saddam is not Iraq. The territory of Iraq and its people represent one of the births of agriculture, one of the births of civilization, one of the births of a written legal system based upon fairness, etc. I've viewed the nation and people of Iraq as more of Saddam's victims for decades, not his willing accomplices.
I think if this conversation tells us anything about bias it is clearly telling us about yours, not mine.
you forgot to mention a) why the US did nothing about that back in the 80s aside from affirming our "friendship" to Saddam and giving him another $1 billion in military aid right after and b) where Saddam had gotten the technology for that gas and its means of distribution.
Even if true they are off topic. The fact remains that the US invasion was not a random event. The potential threat existed. Even if one accepts your position one could argue that the US more morally obliged to clean up the mess it created. In any case, not random.
The Internet is in the process of saving the U.S. from its century of tyranny. The only question is whether it will be soon enough. East Germans knew better, but by the time they did, it was too late.
Ron Paul was a skirmish in the war for freedom. The next battle is paper ballots, and at least here in Colorado, at least for 2008, we'll have paper due to overwhelming public outcry for it. The next battle after that is to actually elect a defender of liberty using said paper ballots, by which time a larger percentage of the population should be getting its news from the Internet.
Being that the term 'banana republic' came into existence as a direct result of U.S. foreign policy and illegal wars, it should come as no surprise that one would find the parent specimens of such abusive practices in the land which created them.
The U.S. used its foreign policy and semi-secret operations to crush budding democratic nations in order to reward American business, in this case, sugar and banana plantation owners, who basically wanted to use slave labor rather than pay fair wages to the locals. It still happens today. Venezuela is currently undergoing the same treatment where the U.S. government, big business and the CIA are doing everything in their power to cast Chavez as a villain and install a pro-American business military government. They're probably going to get away with it, too. The media in Venezuela are all pro-evil, big media owners being what they are. Chavez wanted the peasantry to own their own land and have a say in politics, have access to decent schooling and medical care and generally get out from under the boot heel of slavery. The horror! It's bad for business when your peasants are educated and strong. --Research the story, but stay away from the big American news outlets to do it; they're all a bunch of whores.
If U.S. business and government are going to use such practices abroad, then you'd better believe that they're going to try to get away with as much of the same thing at home as they possibly can.
So yes, the U.S. IS some banana republic. It's the mother ship of banana republics. Don't let all the shiny formed plastic fool you.
-FL
It only doesn't make sense if you presume their actual goals are aligned with their stated goals. If the goals are to induce relatively powerful people to feel helpless and threatened, it makes a lot more sense.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You know, I don't agree with this guy one bit, but how is this modded troll? Just because people don't agree with his opinion? I troll mod should be reserved for "FIRST POST!!!", people from the GNAA or someone who says "All you liberals suck! GO USA!!!" His opinion, while disagreeable to some, is still valid.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
So "you haven't proved you don't" is good enough to invade a sovereign country. I guess that meshes well with "you can't prove you're not" being good enough to send you off to an offshore jail for some "interrogation".
How long would it take, say if you were driving at 50mph, to get through the airport fence, with a van full of people with ak's, all timed to the departure time of say 3 747's, and board the planes, fully armed, with explosives? That's the real threat imo...
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure
Um, You missed his point. All of these groups 'could' be treated in the same was as you currently view Muslims - there are justifications in history! Were you in London while the IRA were bombing? I went to school with somebody who who lost a leg in an IRA bombing. Which is far closer to me personally then any body killed by a Muslim terror attack. In some cases reputations are earned. In this case popular media is portraying all followers of the Muslim faith as being fundamentalists - and some people less capable in critical thinking are believing it. Surely it is everybody with the name "Bin Laden" that should be screened!
Don't travel to the US.
There is no way I'm going to hand over my passwords to a just-above-minimum-wage dofus. Not if it means I can't take that flight. Not going to happen. Since by whatever perverse application of your totaliarian laws they can force me to, the only solution is to avoid the US the same way anyone with a sane mind avoids any other place where the insane rule.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Um... why should I, as an at-will employee, shoulder the burden of this for my employer? If I were ever arrested at an airport for refusal to comply with Customs orders, my employer would have the briefest feelings of sympathy for my plight... before firing me. That would leave me arrested, possibly charged with a federal crime, and unemployed to boot.
I like my job, and I like the company that I work for. However, I'm not about to go to jail for them or anyone else.
You think it's a bad reason to accuse jews or irish and harass them, send them to torture camps as soon as you think they might be a threat to your comfort? On the other hand when it concerns muslims it's normal... So where exactly is that limit between normal and not? Is it when your skin is not the right color? Your beard too long? Or is it the religion?
What triggered this answer is this:
and in France the violence has turned to urban warfare
But I'll come back to that later. First:
It's people like you who are responsible for the rise of Sadam, Hitler, Bush and other despots. You justification is: there are "good" reasons to persecution. Hitler shared your point of view.
Instead of going after the people who failed to act (or juts let things happen that 9/11 to get the convenient war propaganda), you let your rights burn, you justify your own oppression, you take the lies about terrorism in Iraq as granted (the only terrorists active in Iraq were backed by the US and were acting to replace Sadam by a more cooperative dictator, just like in the very well documented coup against Mohammed Mossadegh which led to the current Iranian situation). You support the american terrorism. You can't recognise a failed leader when you see one, Bush speaks in YOUR name, he acts in YOUR name.
they have developed a reputation for it.
Americans have developed a reputation: a short summary of things done in YOUR name: You call others nations terrorists if they don't support in your holly war, you invade a country under false pretexts, plan the chaos (disbanding the government and army http://www.cfr.org/publication/7853/iraq.html) which will justify the presence of your army in the country. You steal all the oil you can while people argue about the effectiveness of your strategy. You kill people at random (just for fun, a video) and you create laws to avoid being prosecuted... You kill more people cause it's fun It's bad you broke rules but no laws, because killing people is not a crime (the killers will walk free and proud in your streets). You have a strong tendency of acting like criminals at every level of the state and you make your own law how and where it pleases you; As Bush said "He tried to kill my dad". And so you bombed a nation with radioactive waste (twice http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml, http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0515/p01s02-woiq.html). Also, giving false evidence about mass destruction weapons to bring other nations into your jihad is another strategy in you sick failed-state. And this reputation of being christian fanatics who create your own private (out of the law) saint armies http://www.blackwaterusa.com/ counts for something... Your leaders are a reflection of yourself.
I think there are valid reasons for millions of people around the world to seek vengeance against the US. So stop complaining, having a 1984 like system at the airports and having your laptop stolen by greedy TSA officials is a low price to pay for your own security when you are too lazy to act responsibly. You don't deserve freedom if you can't fight for it... It's up to you as a citizen of a country to watch where your freedom goes... You are just like russians, happy to give away your rights by fear of loosing some of this daily comfort. At the airport you are treated like cattle, because you are... Your country and its officials (from top to bottom TSA agents) consider you as such... it gives you
The Bush Administration deceived first, then tried to rationalize. Not the other way around. For deceit to work, it has to be hidden. That the deceit is coming out now is just a natural progression of history. I think part of the point is that Congress went along with the plan without doing any real fact checking, asking any tough questions, or really even discussing anything. They just made pretty speeches and signed on the dotted line. And this is exactly in line with what the GP is saying: folks in Congress saw no downside; they could just blame Bush either way. Whether the blame is *deserved* is irrelevant to *that* question; Congress had the opportunity to avoid the situation and are now jumping up and down about how it wasn't "their fault" (except for the ones still saying "Gee, what a nice day this is!".) It is their *job* to be suspicious and not write blank checks. If Bush fooled them, they failed that job.
20 years ago, I was traveling up through Sweden to Finland. I thought that it would be fun to do the return trip down the Russian side as there are a lot of places in the east that I wanted to visit. The paperwork was a nightmare and I decided against it. I have been wandering around the US and had a great time just going where I wanted. That is the sort of thing that I wanted to do in Russia, if I liked St Petersburg, stay a couple of weeks, if I didn't, move on...
A couple of years ago I dropped into Moscow and traveled up north. I am now allowed to travel around in a way that I am no longer allowed to travel around the US. Some irony there.
Land of the free? Who are you trying to fool?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
The Nazi card is really getting tiresome.
You must be quite german to react this badly...
There's nothing heretical about what they're doing, and they don't do it for political reasons. They follow their religion correctly, in the footsteps of Mohammed. The methods have changed to reflect the diminished power of Muslim nations, but the nature of Jihad warfare has not changed during its ~1400 years of existence.
I am not informed well enough to discuss this matter, could you link to some sources of yours?.
There are probably some sects that don't believe in Jihad, but they are insignificant.
I don't know so many muslims but i probably know more of them than you must have ever seen in your life to act in such an xenophobic way... but please enlighten me, link to information about jihad adhering currents and non adherents.
Today's Saudi Arabia is more backwards than Europe or Asia a thousand years ago.
I totally agree on that... Also note that this regime is backed and supported by the defenders of freedom, the USA! (That was a very tempting one, sorry)
What the hell do Americans have to do with this? Are you completely unable to deal with Islam and Muslims without immediately trying to drag someone or something else down to their level, or without trying to ignore issues by pointing the finger elsewhere?
I do recognize there is a problem with extremists... all over the world and whatever their religion and color and shaving habits. The fact that Radical Islam gets all the attention doesn't mean you should put all the muslims in the same basket. [It's impossible anyway, they won't fit (joke! don't flame!)]. All germans are not nazis... are they? So stop generalizing, meet people, talk to them.
I don't remember claiming that it was a racist attack. I don't remember bringing up race, either.
Funny how it's always immigrants from Islamic countries that do this kind of stuff.
Sorry I took it for granted... just the way you tend to point your fingers at the justice in harassing muslims who have this reputation... But I was wrong in believing you accused this attack on muslims.
I'm sure it's just a bizarre coincidence
Certainly not... But I would like to see some kind of proof showing the ratio of muslims / non muslims in those riots (which should be possible by looking at the ration among the arrested people). I would also like to point out the following: Riots are the result of strong problems in a country, youth and students are most of the time initiators of these. The French nation has a very strong story when it comes to striking and rioting one or two more riots politically used and amplified by french left wing press and media against the right wing candidate Sarkozy is hardly an argument (in your anti leftist mouth)... I believe you have no clue about the situation in France, but if you do, please, tell me more.
You obviously don't want to deal with this issue. What are you afraid of?
Afraid of? Don't know why? I was just saying you were right there are many idiots on this planet. And yes criminality and violence are real issues. Organized crime and pointless criminal acts are more than numerous all over the world. Telling it's the Jews or the muslims or the americans is just a lack of judgement. Give me links to facts or news.
I'm pretty sure all US forces are educated on ROE, LOAC and Geneva Conventions.
Please provide a link... And I will be happy to read that prior to the invasion all soldiers were properly trained and informed of their duties and obligations. Also explain me how comes a whole prison mutated into a gulag without any official noticing (I'm speaking of Abu Ghraib)
What lack of culture?
I will read links (contrarily to you) and a
No, just looking at your statements was sufficient.
Hey, guys, don't mod this guy down and make him in his own eyes a martyr. Respond to him. Show how far off he is in not acknowledging recent historical examples.
Especially get on him for the 'their own fault' statement.
Not every member of a group is an extremist, and if we antagonize those members who work against extremism, we do ourselves a severe disservice as well.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I think the burden of proof is on you. The notion that soldiers receive no training in the laws of warfare strikes me as very absurd.
You tell me you know/are pretty sure/whatever then prove it. Don't affirm thing you imagined. Your imagination and belief is no proof. You're too lazy and dumb (or have you never been in the army?) buthere you go. I'll spare you the effort of clicking:
"We had no training whatsoever," he said.
"I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulations. And it just wasn't happening," he said.
He said he never saw a copy of the Geneva Conventions - which govern the treatment of prisoners - until after he was charged.
I will not link to previously linked articles (as you obviously did not even click on the links) which show executions of prisoners and wounded... or is that part of the Geneva Conventions?
I used to be an average multiculturalist drone like you
Am I? I lived in different countries, cultures and places. I adapt quite well. And I understand how rules are applied and enforced in the places I live. I talk to people come to know and understand them and their story... listen to their personal stories. As an immigrant I learn to play by the local rules.
Then I changed my world view entirely.
Have you been assaulted by someone looking a bit tanned? This would explain a shift of stance and a perception of continual persecution (you display this erratic behavior in most of your posts).
Muslims have waged Jihad for nearly one and a half millennia all over the world, though most people are unaware of it because they're too busy apologizing for the Crusades. Islam Watch, a site run by former Muslims, has a collection of articles on the history of Jihad.
I'm sorry but linking to a website blocked by corporate firewalls for being racist / Islamophobic is not the greatest source. I have been reading that. I can't say it's journalism... Linking Ottoman invasions to justify the war in Iraq is basically sick. But you might find comfort in this kind of "stories".
The word terrorist is really overused today.
My god you formidably fail to read (or understand) the main piece of information and bounce on the less relevant part. The word terrorism is well defined... Oxford English Dictionary: "government by intimidation". But is was quite extended. Despite that the definition of the invasion of Iraq falls into most definitions you can find.
That doesn't make any coherent sense. Being serious means you're trolling? Yeah, whatever.
Yes... I see you are quite limited.
How dare those fascist pigs even exist!
Yay! You did it! Sarcasm... +1 point for the extra effort!
Yeah, problems like police officers chasing people and sitting in cars.
I should stop assuming everyone has the same level of knowledge... My quote was a reference to the deep problem of French immigration policy, to the political tensions and other factors which led french youth from lower classes to the streets as well as set french students on strike (political leftist sabotage and agitation). Please don't use the French riots as an example as you are too far from the topic.
I know there's also a civil war in Iraq.
Just tell me how many bombings and Islamic crimes have been committed under Sadams rule, where were those terrorist when Sadam let his nationalist regime strip his country of t
Having an opinion that differs from Slashdot's leftist dogma is not against any rule that I'm aware of.
I might have been unclear. The rules mention clearly linking to sources as being an essential part of the /. "dogma".
This is the old "since the US military is not perfect, they're all savage murderers" argument.
What does that have to do with you not reading linked sources?
Like I already told you, it's an absurd claim.
Prove it.
soldiers deployed to Iraq are equipped with water pistols.
This is an absurd claim, it appears that M16A2 Qualification and Bayonet are part of the basic training... But I found no mention of any courses about Human rights nor Geneva convention anywhere in any of the US army courses. Once again, I might be wrong... but as I did read and hear such testimonies (no such human rights training being given) I believe I am right, and you are uninformed or lying.
Hah hah. A site run by former Muslims is Islamophobic and racist. That's a good one.
A typical reaction from people who can't fit in a new or foreign environment is to start denigrating, criticizing and even harming their former community. I have witnessed that behavior too often... It's really sad. I am not telling the people from jihadwatch and islamwatch are in that position... but they are neither journalists neither historians. They write their partisan ideas, they introduce unrelated historical facts and try to make them fit in their views...
The posts on their sites are not news... these are views.
By the way, why exactly shouldn't I use French riots as an example of... French riots?
Because you try to use these riots to prove islam is the "root cause of the fall of humanity" (I exaggerated this claim for a humorous purpose). You have no knowledge of the situation and (Left wing) media frenzy (against N. Sarkozy) which led to those riots... Neither have you any idea of the proportion of muslims, catholics, atheists, nihilists or any other trouble makers in these riots. Therefore your claims are unproven and void. Seeing your reticence to link to any news or any solid source it's doubtful you have anything valid to say about this subject.
Similiar riots [...] occur in many others places in Europe
Could you give links to 3 or 4 examples?
Immigrants from Islamic societies are the common link between all of them.
Do you have any statistics or news to support our claim? Or (to quote you) "is there no source for your claims because it was obviously made up as another example?"
I'm sorry if I don't buy the standard explanation that The Man is oppressing them. When everything, absolutely everything, is always The Man's fault, the explanation starts to become as credible as the Zionist Conspiracy.
I don't either... but you are quick at generalizing. You forget the social and humanitarian context in Africa and the middle East. Islam is used as a pretext and a tool. It's the only knowledge and morale framework most people have in countries like Nigeria. They have no clue about civil laws nor any national or international education. Nigeria is a country where a coup is the best way to get to power, where the average person saw 3 civil wars and lost members of his familly in conflicts, When law is enforced by militias with no federal oversight (and no knowledge of federal laws either) you can't expect much discernment from the average citizen. Most Nigerian don't see their identity represented by the Nation but by the tribe they come from. In a similar fashion most of Middle East has no significant national identity, n