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UK Government To Terminate File Sharers' Net Access

An anonymous reader writes "New plans published by the UK Govt show that they hope to terminate internet access for people suspected of breaching copyright by file sharing. Under the proposed new laws ISPs who fail to enforce the policy will face prosecution in the courts. Users falling foul of the new law will be subject to a three strike policy: First suspected instance of illegal file sharing they would receive a warning, at the second — a suspension, and at the third they will have their Internet connection terminated. It isn't clear whether users will be prevented from ever using the internet again, or whether simply subscribing to a new ISP will reset the process."

69 of 411 comments (clear)

  1. Ummmm by spleen_blender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Encrypt your file sharing. Does anything else really need to be said?

    1. Re:Ummmm by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Defensive tactics are not advised. If they come for the file-sharing users now, what makes you think they will not come for the encryption users later? Better to make our stand here and now, upon this miserable connection and fall as link-dead than to run for higher obscurity against an ever rising invasion of our privacy.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    2. Re:Ummmm by lorenzino · · Score: 2, Informative

      Never heard of public encryption ? You need someone public key to send them data and only them can read it. You can also sign it with your private key so that nobody else could have sent that data. (If you sent them your public key) The problem though is man in the middle. Who can you be sure the public key you've got is their public key and not GOV public key?

    3. Re:Ummmm by J'raxis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um... you encrypt the transfer, not the file itself. Ever heard of SSL? Sort of like that.

    4. Re:Ummmm by mapkinase · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There were no specifics in the text of two articles of how they are going to detect file sharing. I bet they will just go by known services from their list, known torrent sites, etc. So, the encryption won't help.

      Opening emails or data packets is illegal if you simple extend the law about snail-mail. If they stepped into this, they are making their unconstitutional (well, it's UK, so substitute whatever you have for constitution) rules, which makes it pretty much irrelevant whether you encrypt your uploads or not.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    5. Re:Ummmm by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Informative

      Surely they'll have to prove what is it that I'm downloading? As I've already pointed out in another post, my ISP has blocked BitTorrent. I can't download Ubuntu now without beating the crap out of the server. If I encrypt BitTorrent, then I'm able to download the free and legal software that I'm entitled to.

      I can see my ISP's point, but they're making my life difficult.

    6. Re:Ummmm by obstalesgone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You ISP can prove that you communicated with a bank using SSL. That's enough information to find you guilty of "suspicion of conducting financial transactions". SSL does not help in any way.

    7. Re:Ummmm by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My biggest problem with this news is the vagueness of the proposal. It states several times "customers suspected of making illegal downloads." I wonder what would constitute activity suspicious enough to trigger a strike. It is no secrete that over here in the states' the *AAs are rather forceful in pursuing "suspected" illegal file-sharers, oft to the point of false accusations and approaching terror tactics (Universities that have stopped nearly all P2P traffic, for example.) Laws with disputable characteristics like this make an excellent foundation for the further legitimization of such tactics.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    8. Re:Ummmm by obstalesgone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I realize what your saying. Not all cell phone calls are the mafia moving coke, not all internet connections are hackers robbing Paypal, and not all torrents are kids downloading illegal mp3s. It doesn't matter. The proposed requirement for getting cut off from the net is suspicion... not guilt.

    9. Re:Ummmm by superwiz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Encryption is illegal in Britain. That is you must surrender your keys upon request by the government. Any notions you may have about Britain not being a police state are wrong.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    10. Re:Ummmm by Richard+W.M.+Jones · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It states several times "customers suspected of making illegal downloads."

      I'll add some facts here ...

      The way this works is like this: IFPI (or more likely some contracted-out company) will connect to "Teeney_Spears_best_of.torrent" bittorrent, and will note down the time and IP address of all the other machines in the swarm. Any which belong to a UK ISP will result in a notification being sent to the ISP who will forward it along to the customer. Three srikes etc.

      The ISPs won't be monitoring connections, because (surprisingly) that is illegal interception and can only be done under carefully controlled conditions as specified in the RIP Act. Oh actually, it can be done by everyone and their dog in local government, but that is a separate issue.

      Encryption and suspicion don't really come into this. Plausible deniability, neighbours and visitors using your wifi connection, challenges over the chain of evidence, compromised machine, etc. are all possible, assuming any of these cases ever makes it to court. The whole point of the voluntary agreement is to avoid cases coming to court and needing solid evidence.

      Rich.

    11. Re:Ummmm by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I dunno, I did not read the article.. however if the synopsis is correct (which it rarely is...), the mere suspicion of file sharing could result in account termination. I imagine we could turn this into a new denial of service attack.. forge p2p traffic from someone you do not like.. until the ISP kills off their account...

      That being said.. I am sure there are probably protections in place to prevent abuse... heh.. okay maybe not...

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    12. Re:Ummmm by Keith_Beef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Read the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7240234.stm

      Here are extracts.

      A draft consultation suggests internet service providers would be required to take action over users who access pirated material.

      According to the Times, the draft paper states: "We will move to legislate to require internet service providers to take action on illegal file sharing."

      This is a draft proposal for discussion, so now is the time to act.

      Write to your MP, explaining how the proposed legislation would be

      • unworkable
      • unnecessary
      • immoral

      Going after downloaders would seriously inconvenience legitimate users of P2P networks, such as those who use them for FOSS distribution. Driving people to encrypt their distributions would just result in an escalation of the problem and the gov't would start to encroach on uses of security mechanisms used by banks and merchants to avoid fraud.

      There is no need for further legislation, since the distribution of copyrighted works without the permission of the copyright holder is already covered by other laws.

      It is morally wrong to go for the easy target at the risk of hitting innocent bystanders, when the alternative of going for the hard target with no risk of collateral damage is possible.

      By this, I mean that the real target should be the uploaders of the copyrighted works.

      For decades the government has been telling us that the way to fight the war on drugs is to hit the producers, importers and dealers; that the users should be considered as victims of their own addiction.

      If you want to kill the snake, cut of its head, not the end of its tail.

      K.

    13. Re:Ummmm by blane.bramble · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you mean the UK is said to have no written constitution. It sure as hell has a constitution, which mostly consists of existing case law. Funnily enough most of this is actually written down, but not in one single document. This has advantages and disadvantages - it's more flexible than the formal US constitution (this is both the advantage and disadvantage).

    14. Re:Ummmm by jonsmirl · · Score: 4, Informative

      You might also want to point out that this would turn the ISPs into police and give them some of the powers of police. Policing should stay in the hands of government. If the government really wants to police this they can follow proper legal procedures for establishing a wire tap, proving guilt, etc. It is a very slippery slope allowing ISPs to monitor traffic and make decisions based on what they see in the traffic. What if they decide to start monitoring MP's email and publish interesting tidbits?

      A better answer is for the content industry to come up with a new business model. Obviously the world has changed and their old one doesn't work anymore.

    15. Re:Ummmm by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Funny

      So all that would be required is a virus or trojan to make random connection to the top 10 list of piratebay on random computers and the remaining bandwidth will be mine after everyone else is kicked off?

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    16. Re:Ummmm by TriezGamer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Somehow, I don't think being the only user in the swarm is going to benefit your download speeds.

    17. Re:Ummmm by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can see my ISP's point, but they're making my life difficult. The ISPs are in a difficult spot here. Ensuring that the content that users are trafficking is legal is actually more difficult than the post office ensuring that none of the envelopes that it relays contain fraudulent checks. This legislation was obviously not passed by folks with any kind of technical sophistication.

      Unfortunately, that does not imply that it cannot lead to successful prosecution when an ISP is identified as being in violation...
      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    18. Re:Ummmm by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you mean the UK is said to have no written constitution Sorry to be pedantic[1], but actually we have a written but not codified constitution. The Magna Carta, common law and Hansard all form the British Constitution.


      [1] Wait, this is Slashdot, no I'm not.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Ummmm by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you think IP-protection is wrong, fight to change it. Don't fight for the right to break the law.

      That's a stupid argument. If I buy your logic, Rosa Parks should have given up her seat when asked.

      Before I get slammed in any replies, no I'm not making the comparison between Rosa Parks and p2p file sharers. But the argument that unjust laws should be followed just because they are laws is idiotic.

      (And no, I'm not passing judgment on whether or not I think IP laws are "just")

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  2. please dob yourself in by jaxtherat · · Score: 3, Funny
    I love how at the bottom of TFA there is this bit:

    Do you download illegally or do you think it's right that illegal downloaders should be disconnected? Send us your comments by filling out the form below.

    Name
    Your E-mail address
    Town & Country
    Phone number (optional):
    Comments :)
    --
    http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
    1. Re:please dob yourself in by u38cg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just the BBC being itself. They have this wierd idea that being a public service broadcaster means they have to publish the comments of every clueless fool who writes into them. Unofrtunately this just results in a list of daft comments that make Youtube posters look thoughtful.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
  3. Bittorrent already blocked by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Informative

    My ISP, Pipex, has already blocked me from using BitTorrent. At first I thought it was just a problem with the server, but when I couldn't download a single Linux distribution I started getting suspicious.

    I've fixed it now, but I'm not impressed that Pipex see BitTorrent as a cancer that needs to be cut out, and if anything innocent goes with it, then that's OK because it's for the greater good.

  4. "Suspected" incidence by phorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First suspected instance of illegal file sharing they would receive a warning, at the second -- a suspension, and at the third they will have their Internet connection terminated

    Nice to see that they're not even going for proven guilt in this case. So what happens when some poor Brit has his internet connection pulled for downloading Ubuntu ISO's or WOW updates via BitTorrent... or the media companies just screw up and finger the wrong IP as infringing.

    1. Re:"Suspected" incidence by s!lat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is really nice to see that we don't have to deal with that "pesky" Presumed Innocence. I wonder though, can we use this to round up parliamentarians around the world and prosecute them for accepting bribes and corruption? I think that might get the message through.

      --
      It's a leather thing
    2. Re:"Suspected" incidence by MrNemesis · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why so cynical? To think that such established and technically competent companies as BT, Virgin and Tiscali would make such egregious errors is unthinkable. If you are a criminal, you are cut off. Therefore, if you're cut off, you're a criminal. Is it really so hard for all of you freeloading hippies to understand?

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    3. Re:"Suspected" incidence by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Hacked By Chinese! A true story of their 1337n355:
      • Rogerborg: WTF have you cut me off for?
      • Telewest drone: We detected that you were infected with Code Red and for your safety and convenience blah blah blah.
      • Rogerborg: Code Red? The IIS worm?
      • Telewest drone: Indeed.
      • Rogerborg: I'm running Apache. On SUSE Linux.
      • Telewest drone: [pauses for "thought"] Well, Code Red can infect Apache as well.
      • Rogerborg: Please stop talking. Either restore my service immediately, or our contract will be voided and I will cease payments.
      • Telewest drone: [pauses for long conversation with his "peers"] After careful consideration we have decided to restore your service in this occasion but in futu..
      • Rogerborg: [click]

      It's not so much the initial misidentification that bothers me, it's that they employee front line support who shouldn't be allowed to play with Big Boy Scissors, let alone to deal with technical issues.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    4. Re:"Suspected" incidence by LuxMaker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nice to see that they're not even going for proven guilt in this case.

      Actually what I read is worse than this. Anything they do not like will be turned into "suspected" illegal file sharing. Blog the wrong thing? Suspected illegal file sharing. Visit an unapproved website? Suspected illegal file sharing. Have an ISP connection with my competitor? Suspected illegal file sharing.

      Don't think it will happen? Obviously you don't understand human nature too well.

      --
      I regret that I only have one mod point to give per post.
  5. 6 Million "Illegal Downloaders" in the UK by teslar · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From TFA (BBC):

    Six million people a year are estimated to download files illegally in the UK.
    So, I guess that means the story headline could be changed into "UK Government to reduce ISP's customer base by 6 Million". Somehow I don't think that's gonna happen.
    1. Re:6 Million "Illegal Downloaders" in the UK by LordSnooty · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What if I make a wireless mesh network in my neighborhood, and one of the nodes happens to have a DSL connection,
      Without doubt this is phase II of the p2p revolution. A combination of automatic mesh networking setup with decentralised library functionality and shared areas on machines... there's no way to stop this. The tech is already in millions of homes, I just hope someone cleverer than me is working on it already.
    2. Re:6 Million "Illegal Downloaders" in the UK by kellyb9 · · Score: 2, Funny

      sounds like a lot of work. I'd rather just leech of my neighbors wireless and download music from there.

    3. Re:6 Million "Illegal Downloaders" in the UK by IdeaMan · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd rather just leech of my neighbors wireless and download music from there. Please don't do that.
      That will prevent the rest of us from connecting to the automatic mesh network through them.
      --
      They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
  6. Time to emigrate by Nursie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Final proof the government is working against the citizenry, doesn't trust or respect us or have any fucking idea about either technolo9gy or freedom.

    Enforcing this would require constant monitoring of all communication over the net. I'm not suprised our government doesn't see any issue with this as they are totally morally bankrupt. One tenth of the population is doing this and the first thought is surveillance and punishment. Good going.

    I hadn't realised how much they were in the pocket of the **AA/BPI etc though.

    This is a civil matter, for civil courts that should decide a reasonable fine and that be the end of it.

  7. FAIL by Nursie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Does anyone here REALLY think that this whole story will end any other way?"

    It has in other places, your incredulity at that fact doesn't make it untrue though. Look at Canada, Spain, Germany etc.

    "Are governments really going to say "tough shit" and encourage people to just pirate content?"

    Some are imposing a tax, others are investigating just completely legalising p2p. Yes, remember that democracy is about the interests of the population, not just IP "owners".

    "Like it or not 99% of the content on p2p services is copyrighted."

    Irrelevant

    "Like it or not, no business can compete with free, and still pay its staff."

    Also false. Many people both download and buy an awful lot of media. On average it has been found the "pirates" buy more media than other folks. Many use p2p as a way of sampling things before deciding. Some don't, but you also make the fallacious assumption that each download is a lost sale.

    "People I know who work in the sector are worried about future prospects and already looking at getting out into a 'bricks and mortar' style trade where they know they will get paid and not ripped off."

    An awful lot of what's out there at the moment is lowest-common-denominator BULLSHIT. That's why it's failing.

    "I have no sympathy with anyone who gets caught with this. Everyone pirating content is just leeching off the honest people who don't mind paying for their entertainment. It's fair to nobody, and unsustainable."

    What is this "fair"? It seems perfectly sustainable to me.

    "And to anyone saying "it wont work 100%". No it won't. Nor does locking my door work against a determined burglar, but it will help deter casual piracy, and its the mass casual piracy that is really hurting."

    And someone releases a product with the crypto built in and "mass casual" piracy is back on the air.

    In summary: FAIL.

  8. Flatmates by MrNemesis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So how do they propose that my two flatmates who do fileshare are cut off, whereas the remaing two flatmates who don't fileshare retain internet access?

    Oh wait, no-one's proposing that. They just expect me (internet is in my name) to police my flatmates computers for them. Bottom-up stazi citizenry for your future police state here we come.

    --
    Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
  9. Write to your MPs by W3bbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's cliche, but armchair moping about it on Slashdot isn't going to affect the outcome of any vote in this legislation.

    Write, phone, or email your MP. I'm doing it, are you?

  10. Encryption won't save you by devnullkac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since the legal hurdle to invoke this penalty is merely "suspicion," encryption is no protection. Using an encrypted link to a suspect site or using an anonymizing service can be enough evidence in and of itself.

    --
    What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
  11. Re:Lawmakers by kellyb9 · · Score: 2, Funny

    But this shit would never fly over here. He has a point. In the US, our congress concerns itself over more important matters like steroids in baseball. You Brits could take a serious lesson in ineptitude.
  12. Would we tolerate this with any other utility? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Imagine if the government started cutting the phone lines and electricity of anyone suspected of illicit activity, with no absolutely no due process. Would we tolerate that even for a second?

    What about all the people falsely accused? Are they going to have to go to court and prove they DIDN'T do anything illegal just to get internet access back?

    A sad day for the UK, and an unfortunate precedent that I'm sure the U.S. and others will soon follow.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Would we tolerate this with any other utility? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Funny

      The MPAA and RIAA are already looking to pass legislation to turn off your power if they think you are listening to or watching unauthorized music or movies.

      Those damned customers, they must be STOPPED!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. Re:welcome to the latest round of whack-a-mole by cliffski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "intellectual property is dead"

    So the movie makers, musicians, writers, software developers and game designers should all go do a basic course in plumbing and carpentry?
    I don't know about you, but I need to pay the bills. You are basically saying that thanks to selfish leeches who think everyone owes them free entertainment for life, our entire collective digital industries are now dead and buried, to be pursued only by hobbyists at the weekends?
    Personally, I'd rather it didn't come to that, and if that means using the law to crack down on people blatantly and repeatedly infringing copyright, then good. Someone copying a mates Cd was never the issue. Its people who leave servers on 24/7 distributing tens of thousands of files that were only released yesterday that is the problem.

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  14. Re:welcome to the latest round of whack-a-mole by Eukariote · · Score: 2, Interesting

    the law thinks it can control file sharing. it can't.

    Though it is nearly impossible to control sharing, sharing may not be the only or even the main motivation behind the law. Consider that pretty much anyone can be accused of file sharing, irrespective of whether the person actually engaged in it. How would you defend yourself? It is your word against theirs.

    In short, if approved, this law provides an excuse to deny any citizen Internet access. In particular, it can be used to deny access to people engaged in exposing lies and other activities deemed to be subversive. That may the secondary or even main motivation.

  15. Re:Lawmakers by ddrichardson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is no British law - Scotland has its own system, which I haven't seen made mention of yet as to how this proposal affects us.

    You need to appreciate the sheer volume of ludicrous laws that have been implemented in the UK since Tony Blair's New Labour were voted into power. There are a lot of things that have been made illegal that people don't even know about. This looks to be another of those scenarios where someone has been lobbying the government who have been in discussion with industry members without any public transparency or debate and are about to introduce some sweeping, ill-conceived and ill informed draconian law.

    People in the UK need to wake the fuck up and stop paying so much attention to all the bullshit that the news tries to make us focus on and face up to the real issues. Look at the effect of islamic terrorism post media coverage - the UK was subjected to terrorist attacks from Irish Republicans for over 30 years which people accepted and lived with effectively, now the media has created a focussed paranoia which is impacting settled British families of Asian decent.

    This may sound extreme but there are parralels as to how many dictators have drawn attention from there real interests by blaming a group of people. In this cas the recession is the issue but we can just blame p2p users.

    --
    A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
  16. Consultation Paper by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to TFAs, a consultation paper will be published (BBC says "shortly", Times says "within months"). (These are Government papers to seek out opinions, which anyone can respond to.)

    Perhaps if a few thousand people respond to that as well as complaining on the Internet, it may help stop such laws (not that the Government is obliged to listen to consultation responses, but it's one possible way of opposing new laws, and makes it harder for the Government to claim there is public support).

  17. go ask the aztec and incan nobility by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if technological progress is fair. go ask horseshoe blacksmiths, chimney sweeps, and steamship engineers

    or, refuse to adapt to change and obsolescence, and fight bravely agains tthe dying of the light. go ahead, pass more laws against file sharing. go ahead, hire 10x more pit bull lawyers. go for it dude

    as if it will actually matter

    accept reality, or don't, i don't care. whatever you think is right or wrong doesn't mean reality is going to necessarily reflect that. you can't realistically enforce your beliefs. so your beliefs will not be reality. sorry, but that's the truth. there is in fact naturalistic morality, and beleiving in real moral right and wrong. i'm sorry to break this to you, but intellectual property is not naturally moral. and os it is a completely articifial construct, and, when unable to be enforced, ceases to be respected. you can't reason or argue with a teenager as to why they must pay bertelsmann $10 because they want to listen to michael jackson. there is natural, moral compelling reason for them to respect intelelctual property. it's a fucking joke

    furthermore, the real losers of this game is the distributors, not the artists. they already screw the artists with hilarious contracts. go look up "monkey points" on wikipedia and tell me again about how pirates are hurting artists. they aren't hurting artists at all, they are hurting distributors. distributors are screwing you, and have been screwing you long before the internet even existed

    if distributors are removed, i think maybe 1/10th of the money involved goes away. but as before artists saw only 1/1,000th of the money in play, now they will see 900% of the money in play. so artists make out better for the destruction of distributors

    so pirates are good for artists, by destroying the people that really screw you

    you, like many people, mistake disrespect for a defunct distribution model as disrespect for artists

    wake up

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  18. Just switch to wifi by LM741N · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here I have access to two municipal networks, and a bunch of unsecured networks. Who is going to disconnect me from them? Are they going to put tin foil around my apartment?

  19. The next step by kaos07 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok so we have Britain proposing the monitoring of the entire internet, Australia is proposing an ISP-level filter, US cable companies are doing their own selective torrent throttling and various countries such as China already have expansive firewalls and filters in place. Even if this proposal falls through, or is modified somehow, I think we're going to have to accept that governments are in the pockets of the media companies and service providers will target users of p2p because, in their opinion, they aren't making as big a profit as they might like.

    The next step is to ask what we, as the science, engineering and computer-loving community who have been using BitTorrent and various other protocols for legitimate uses before all the kids figured out they could score Amy Winehouse albums for free, can do to either circumvent the policies initiated by the above various groups or to bypass them completely.

    Napster, Limewire and the first generation p2p clients collapsed so BitTorrent was designed and users flocked to it. Now it appears that BitTorrent is going to suffer the same fate (if not now than definitely in the near future - the increasing pressure put on ISP's and governments around the world by copyright holders is going to see to that).

    We can't afford to fight fire with fire. Invasive laws and techniques used by companies such as Comcast may be un-Constitutional, or against the terms of service but the average p2p-user can't afford to launch a civil case against one of the biggest corporations in the USA. My suggestion is for a new protocol to be established, with the emphasis on sharing legitimate files such as patches, Linux ISO's, videos, game demo's etc. Inevitably the first people to jump onto the new system will be the true geeks (By this I mean your average Slashdotter) and by doing so, they can utilise it to its full extent (Something like the early days of BitTorrent) whilst the MPAA/RIAA flog a dead horse.

    Of course it's only a matter of time before pirates jump onto the new protocol and then we watch the whole show unfold again. However p2p-users have proven resourceful and it's only a matter of time before yet another protocol is developed and the cycle continues. But the advantage lies with us. The cost to the developer of something like BitTorrent is minutely small when compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars MAFIAA throws away in its attempt to stop piracy. If we keep it up long enough we might finally get the message across that p2p != piracy, or we might simply bleed them dry.

    1. Re:The next step by FreenetFan · · Score: 2, Informative

      The next generation of filesharing is already here and working well: Freenet.

      Freenet has totally encryption connections between peers, and although your direct peers can see the data packets going between them and you, they don't know if you are initiating them yourself, or just routing for another node in the network. And if even that is too risky for you, you can restrict your direct peers to a list of people you know and trust (aka: darknet).

      If you tried Freenet a year or two ago and found it slow or difficult to use, try it out again. There are thousands of users now and a lot more filesharing, and speeds, memory usage and user-friendliness have improved dramatically.

  20. Re:welcome to the latest round of whack-a-mole by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So the movie makers, musicians, writers, software developers and game designers should all go do a basic course in plumbing and carpentry?
    Most of them, yes. We've got more than the free market can actually feed, and the bubble of copyright is about to burst.

    I don't know about you, but I need to pay the bills. You are basically saying that thanks to selfish leeches who think everyone owes them free entertainment for life, our entire collective digital industries are now dead and buried, to be pursued only by hobbyists at the weekends?
    Basically, yes. Times change. Adapt or die. There had been plenty of time since the bell began to ring.

    Personally, I'd rather it didn't come to that, and if that means using the law to crack down on people blatantly and repeatedly infringing copyright, then good. Someone copying a mates Cd was never the issue. Its people who leave servers on 24/7 distributing tens of thousands of files that were only released yesterday that is the problem.
    I'm sure you, as a Slashdot poster, understand why it doesn't work that way. The only way to enforce copyright is DRM throughout: only allow DRM-enabled hardware and software, make creating, selling and possession of non-DRM-encumbered stuff illegal, and use the always-online phone-home verification scheme for every bit of data copied. Now, do you seriously believe it is worth it?
  21. Been there, done that by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have e-mailed both Labour and the Conservatives about their anti-p2p stance.

    Unfortunately they simply responded to tell me that p2p destroys the creative industries, is responsible for terrorism and organised crime and that it must be stopped at all costs.

    Of course, this ignored every legitimate point I put across to them and when I replied back asking if they could instead answer my points and how they can justify their decision when my points are taken into account I simply didn't get a response.

    Writing to people with counter-points whose minds are already made up seems rather futile no matter how many people tell them they're wrong. Of course, I wont be voting for either of these parties but still I'm convinced stronger action such as protests, civil disobedience of the laws and so forth are required. Hopefully some people will take it as far as hijacking wireless of prominent people such as MPs to get them cut off so they can experience the problems first hand.

  22. Licence Fee, and Other Issues by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here in the UK, we are forced to pay a tax to the BBC if we watch any TV. Will we be disconnected for downloading content we've already paid for?

    (Yes, the BBC is doing fairly well at introducing content online, but AFAIK that's still got DRM, only available for a certain period etc, and it's a hassle to install new software.)

    Another problem is that the TV market is not anywhere near as a free market as say music, in that consumers are restricted by what their TV/cable/satellite company offers. For example, Virgin Media and Sky had a petty squabble, so VM suddenly cancelled the Sky channels on its service (3p a day per customer was too expensive for VM to pay to Sky). I'm sure people would gladly pay the 3p a day themselves if they could, but the only options are to not watch, or download.

    If this really was costing billions, wouldn't they have worked out their petty squabbles?

    Not to mention, it would help if UK shows weren't shown months after the US - even if it's going to be legally available on your TV, people don't want to watch it months after everyone else, risk being spoilered and so on. Imagine if music CDs were released months later in some countries?

  23. Re:Not so fast by Peaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You seem to try and imply that copyright, or more specifically, the collection of royalty payment for each copy, is the primary driver for the creation of content.

    If that is the case, how do you explain the masses of Free Software?
    How do you explain the rich culture and works that were created before copyrights were even invented?
    How do you explain the fact that publishers struggled to be the ones to get to publish the 9/11 Commission Report, even though they could not get a copyright on it, and even though any other publisher could publish it as well? How do you explain that this report made quite a buck for the publisher that published it anyhow?

    If indeed copyright drives quality content (which I believe it does not), is it really worth the extra laws that have to imposed on all citizens? Is it worth the trouble of policing information?

  24. Re:Not so fast by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You seem to try and imply that copyright, or more specifically, the collection of royalty payment for each copy, is the primary driver for the creation of content.

    No. I suggest that it is one driver for the creation of content. Clearly other mechanisms from live performance to altruism also serve as effective motivators to varying degrees.

    I have suggested before that the biggest single advantage of a copyright-style framework over any other method I've seen proposed is that it provides a credible mechanism for creators to make expensive works and each of many consumers to contribute a small share of the cost. In other words, it encourages the widest possible distribution of the works that take the most time and effort to produce, rather than charging higher amounts by making enjoyment of such works a scarce commodity (commissioned work, limited ticket sales at concerts, etc.).

    If that is the case, how do you explain the masses of Free Software?

    Free Software is a terrible example to use if you're trying to show a better way than copyright. The amount of useful, high quality commercial software developed via copyright absolutely dwarfs the amount of useful, high quality software developed under a Free Software model. Even flagship Free Software titles are often not as good as the commercial equivalents. And of course, this particular argument ignores the fact that commercial software development pays the rent for a large proportion of the people who contribute to Free Software in their spare time.

    How do you explain the rich culture and works that were created before copyrights were even invented?

    Again, this one is easy: far less work was produced, and far fewer people enjoyed it because it wasn't as widely available.

    How do you explain the fact that publishers struggled to be the ones to get to publish the 9/11 Commission Report, even though they could not get a copyright on it, and even though any other publisher could publish it as well? How do you explain that this report made quite a buck for the publisher that published it anyhow?

    Because even a thin margin is useful if someone else is paying for the original work to be done?

    If indeed copyright drives quality content (which I believe it does not), is it really worth the extra laws that have to imposed on all citizens? Is it worth the trouble of policing information?

    Copyright is no different to any other law. It should simply codify an accepted convention that informed people will respect without any need to police them, and provide a means for penalising the few who refuse to play by the same rules as everyone else. The fact that this is not the case today is indeed a damning indictment of the current copyright regime, which I believe is primarily down to poor public understanding of the economics involved and allowing the megacorp middlemen to have all the power when it should be the artists and the consumers who are the important groups. But fixing the ignore and the power imbalance are relatively easy, and do not require removing the entire copyright system.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  25. Overreaching will kill it by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If mere suspicion triggers it, this will lead to a LOT of people being pissed off, and outrage will quickly win over the usual democratic boredom at the next election.

  26. Globalization and Cheap Copies by zogger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The entire idea and practice of globalization, that is so well loved and practiced by big business, is the ability to produce cheap copies. Cheap copies of a manufactured product, or cheap copies of an hour of labor. Business moves a factory that was employing a lot of people over to-someplace else, where they can make their product cheaper. If it is too inconvenient or impractical to move the business, they might import people where their labor-copy is cheaper than the existent local status quo of copies of the labor-hour (legal or not, it appears they can flaunt any sort of moving the labor around laws they want to with no repercussions, wink wink, nudge nudge, not P2P but B2B "labor-hour pirating").

    Big business (and their sock puppets big government that they own completely and control now in the modern corporacracy (which is what are governments are now mostly) care not a whit how many "little people" are hurt economically, as long as their "cheap copy" business model stays intact. they promise and insist this is the "best method" possible for the modern economy.

    We are told by our business and governmental leaders that this is the new plan of the 21st century, that to be efficient, we need the cheapest copies of a good or labor-hour as possible, with the tradeoffs to those disposed of their previous employment that they will receive-cheaper copies of whatever-else, could be the same exact thing they used to make, and frequently is. Lather rinse repeat across the board in the employment world.

    The official rule now is, you accept globalization, take your day to day chances with your job, in exchange, big business and big government are promising "cheap copies" for you as a consumer. Of everything, no exceptions, the cheapest copies possible.

    OK, fair enough! That is the economic "deal" they have created for everyone to enjoy. Globalization rules! Cheap copies of everything for everyone!

    But...wait a minute..something isn't quite right here yet... exactly where are the "cheap copies" of digital bits "for sale" legally?

    We have this "cheap copy" replicator technology now that shows us the cost of making the cheap copies of digital bits is pretty low, amazingly low. But the business world insists on "legal" copies that are vastly higher in end user retail price than what their own globalization cheap copy models suggest should be the actual true "tradeoff price" according to their "you must accept globalization no matter what, it is the new law and practice" rules.

    Critics of that might say "you are leaving out the costs of producing the original in the first place, someone has to pay for that as well!". True enough as a criticism on the surface level, but let us go just *one* step below that and look at it.

    When big business, with big governments help and permission, moves non-digital bits copy manufacturing to the "cheaper to make copies" place, they are *also* sidestepping why this new move becomes cheaper. A primary reason is they can completely sidestep a series of societally imposed environmental regulations, or actual costs of production...they can "make more profit" by *not* paying their previously worked out societal "bill" or "cost of original production" of being a little more respective of our commons, the environment. They usually also-at the same new "cheaper to make copies" place- can get to use and exploit the "cheap copy" of lower cost per hour labor by being allowed to support local near-slave drivers tied to repressive regimes who can seriously exploit their own labor force slaves in complete avoidance-avoiding a previous production cost- to what they previously had to include in the cost of making copies, by ignoring such things as child labor laws, workplace safety, and so on. But see, that doesn't matter, as long as a "cheap copy" can then be resold back to "the consumer". That's the globalization trade structure we are under now.

    So that counter

  27. Re:Not suprising, and tbh about time by jesterpilot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are tens of thousands of people employed making digital content, in a huge industry that pays its taxes and keeps people employed.
    Sorry, there is no such thing as industries keeping people employed. Check your economy for dummy's. Industries hire people because they need them to make a profit. If some industry fails, it's a chance for other industries to hire said people to make profit using a business model which is arguably better.
    When an industry fails because technology made the production damn cheap and within reach of everyone, there is a real, structural growth in the economy. It means productivity has gone up. This is exactly what happened with music and film. It has become cheap to make and cheap to distribute. The huge costs of studio equipment and record factories are gone. More digital content will be made for less money. More budget will be available for art and entertainment of a higher quality, like live gigs and high quality film theatres.
    --
    Trust me, I work for the government.
  28. Judge Dredd art imitates life? by freaker_TuC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since when is the RIAA/MPAA or any other cartel Judge, Jury and Executioner together?

    For a long time, I thought there were laws and rights inbetween ...

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  29. A little story about Nokia by Xelios · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem is heavy P2P users who actually understand the behind-the-scenes goings on are a very small minority. Nothing will stop until the general public a) becomes informed about these issues and b) cares enough about them to have an opinion of their own, then act on that opinion. It's possible.

    Here in Germany Nokia recently decided to move production to Poland, where labor is much cheaper, shutting down a large factory in Dortmund where 3000 people are employed. 3000 people out of 80+ million is a very tiny fraction, one that could be waved off with a casual "Well that really sucks for them, but that's business." attitude. Yet this decision cause a huge public reaction. For the past 3 years Nokia has been making very healthy profits, and was even being subsidized several million Euro by the government to keep their production in Germany after they threatened to pull out 3 years ago. They happily obliged, until this January when that subsidy contract expired. They decided then that they would leave after all.

    As a result the German opinion of Nokia's phones has plummetted overnight. Now carrying a Nokia cell phone is all but verboten, even the Nordrhein Westfalen government (the "state" in which Dortmund resides) has cut off all contracts with Nokia and switched to Sony Ericsson cell phones for its employees. I'm sure others will follow suit.

    All because of their greedy attitude and the fact that 3000 people will be out of a job.

    Nokia is currently "reconsidering" their decision.

    P2P needs to find itself a 'Dortmund'. That one example of greed and corporate stupidity that every common Joe can get outraged over.

    --
    Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
  30. The Open Rights Group (ORG) by arevos · · Score: 2, Informative

    The closest EFF equivalent in the UK is the Open Rights Group (ORG).

  31. Re:No actually, you're wrong, and stupid by MrNemesis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dude, take your ritalin and calm down a bit.

    How am I supposed to "police my internet connection"? Buy the same filtering kit that my ISP uses in order to detect infringements on my internet connection and expect me to give a shit that my flatmate is downloading Britney Spears? I don't give a shit what my flatmates are doing and they can fuck off if they expect me to police ANYTHING that isn't my data. You're saying I'm responsible for all data going across that network link. You are wrong.

    Sorry to so infururiate you with saying "stazi", clearly this completely invalidates my point and means I obviously have an IQ of five or less. In fact, it's a wonder I can even string a sentence together without being aware how to spell the abbreviation of an "invented" word in a language I don't speak. Yeah, I could have googled it, apologies for not realising that such as heinous mistake would result in you suffereing an apoplectic fit.

    And, as I'm sure you're aware (being a troll an' all) that copyright infringement is not stealing. Secondly, your "copyright infringement = police state" remark isn't so much a false dichotomy as an apparent complete lack of understanding of my whole point (but, like you say, my point is invalidated because I didn't spell "stasi" - I shudder to think how you'd react if I pointed out that I didn't even capitalise it) - if you REQUIRE every internet connection to be monitored, if you REQUIRE people accessing "unauthorised" content to be denied internet access, if you REQUIRE people to police other peoples computers for fear of being wrongfully accused themselves you have the perfect set of circumstances for implementing a totalitarian regime.

    I feel like I should call you a cunt or something so as to tread more down the "Yeah! Ad hominem FTW!" road of things, but your argument is more pitiable than anything else I'm afraid, and I couldn't really insult you with any real conviction.

    --
    Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
  32. Re:Not so fast by Peaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No. I suggest that it is one driver for the creation of content. Clearly other mechanisms from live performance to altruism also serve as effective motivators to varying degrees.

    I believe the main driver is the free market.

    I have suggested before that the biggest single advantage of a copyright-style framework over any other method I've seen proposed is that it provides a credible mechanism for creators to make expensive works and each of many consumers to contribute a small share of the cost. In other words, it encourages the widest possible distribution of the works that take the most time and effort to produce, rather than charging higher amounts by making enjoyment of such works a scarce commodity (commissioned work, limited ticket sales at concerts, etc.).

    It most certainly does not encourage the widest possible distribution, by placing artificial scarcity on the distribution. Limited ticket sales at concerts do not pose any limit whatsoever on the distribution of recordings of such concerts. That maximizes distribution, copyright does not.

    Free Software is a terrible example to use if you're trying to show a better way than copyright. The amount of useful, high quality commercial software developed via copyright absolutely dwarfs the amount of useful, high quality software developed under a Free Software model. Even flagship Free Software titles are often not as good as the commercial equivalents. And of course, this particular argument ignores the fact that commercial software development pays the rent for a large proportion of the people who contribute to Free Software in their spare time.

    Firstly, you are confusing "commercial" with closed-source (as many open-source products are commercial).

    I believe Free Software is a great example. Copyright makes it possible to highly increase the funding of software projects, and yet Free Software can still compete and often beat the quality of closed-source software whose distribution is artificially scarce. This is significant evidence that the Free Software model works better and more efficiently. It creates higher-quality software for a fraction of the price.
    It is true that many open-source developers are funded by closed-source work. However, I believe that if copyrights are abolished, closed-source software will cease to exist, and the free market will summon the creation of open-source work. A lot more people will get paid to do open source work than they are today.

    About your claim about the quality, the only such package I know of such claim is Photoshop. Lets see some Free Software vs Closed Software comparisons from various times, and see if you can get a concensus about your quality statement:

    1. Linux kernel vs the Windows kernel.
    2. Firefox vs Internet Explorer.
    3. Python/Ruby/Perl vs Visual Basic.
    4. Thunderbird vs Outlook express.
    5. Linux's automatic package management (apt) vs the lack thereof.
    6. Compiz vs Auro.
    7. KDE/Gnome vs the Windows desktop.

    In my opinion, much software progress was made up to the darkness of the 80's, when software was still being researched and developed in the open (the creation of Lisp, C, UNIX, Smalltalk, TCP/IP and many more).
    Once software copyrights took hold, "closed-source" de-facto standards such as (.DOC, WinAPI, etc) took hold. The Windows line became standard (A huge step back from Unix). Visual Basic was created. This is the contribution copyrights to the world of software. The amount of man-years wasted on reverse-engineering or reimplementing basic features in the closed-source world is staggering.

    Again, this one is easy: far less work was produced, and far fewer people enjoyed it because it wasn't as widely available.

    The fact fewer people enjoyed it is not due to the lack of copyright, it is due to the lack of distribution technologies. It was as widely a

  33. Re:Not suprising, and tbh about time by wild_quinine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People I know who work in the sector are worried about future prospects and already looking at getting out into a 'bricks and mortar' style trade where they know they will get paid and not ripped off. So let them. Really. Let 'em go. Nobody would blame them for getting out.

    It's really about time we started to see some of the negative effects of piracy. The RIAA has been promising for years that music will simply stop getting made, but god damn it, it just seems to keep getting better.

    Frankly, I'm calling bullshit on the whole damn crisis. As an artist, and an appreciator of art, I'm a richer man today than I've been for decades.

  34. Yet, were it "spammers" instead of "file sharers" by MacDork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most of /. would be cheering it on. That's what we call hypocrisy kids.

  35. This proposal truly could destroy lives... by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looking at the more serious problems with this proposed law, let me pose the following (true) scenarios to you.

    I live in the UK as does my grandma. She used to have support from government funded community workers for her shopping, because she isn't mobile they used to collect a shopping list from her weekly and would then go out and get her shopping and bring it back for her. Unfortunately she lives 200 miles away so it's not something we're able to help her with from here. The goverment reduced funding to this scheme such that they no longer support it for her, and when she asked what she was supposed to do she was told they will give her computing tutorials and help with providing internet access for her so she could shop online and have the supermarkets deliver to her, this wasn't as good as the previous scheme but it works in a similar way now she has the hang of it.

    So what happens if someone hijacks the wireless that came with her internet access that the goverment recommended and uses it for P2P getting her cut off? Is she supposed to just starve then or something? Another good example is homework, are kids without internet access meant to be at a disadvantage by being unable to perform decent research? I work in IT in the education sector and have recently encountered goverment proposals to get local-goverment supported IT kit and internet access to disadvantaged families so there appears to be a fair bit of evidence the goverment wants every kid to have net access when it comes to education.

    The problem is the goverment here in the UK have recently done things that suggest the internet is an essential service like electricity, gas, water, telephone which is great because it can indeed serve as such an important service. After they've gone to such great lengths to recognise it's importance how can they possibly turn around now and suggest it's something that can just be taken away when kids futures and pensioners lives quite literally depend on it?

    I'm not aware of any other crime in existence that would take away a service that is essential to both our children's future and our pensioners well being as a result of goverment proposed schemes.

  36. Finally! by EddyPearson · · Score: 2

    Finally! A sensible approach!

    You have to find a middle ground here, we can't allow companies to bankrupt people in revenge for sharing a few songs. On the flip side, we can't have a property-is-theft free for all.

    This sounds like a very reasonable option.

    --
    You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
  37. Re:Not so fast by ppanon · · Score: 2, Funny

    How do you explain the rich culture and works that were created before copyrights were even invented?
    Again, this one is easy: far less work was produced, and far fewer people enjoyed it because it wasn't as widely available

    It seems to me Shakespeare, Mozart and the like did OK. At the least the first two produced some popular works and their lack of distribution at the time was more due to technical limitations and Mozart himself was a violator of the content control mechanisms of the day. Yeah, you won't find a collection "Boy bands of the 1750's", but that's not a big loss.
    --
    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  38. Whoopee by fastest+fascist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't wait for this type of legislation to snake its way into the country I live in. Why? We come well prepared already. The gov't here has instituted a "voluntary" filter list of "kiddie porn" sites (in quotes because, apparently, a lot of the sites on the list are completely legal porn) for ISPs to block, which they are now talking about extending to also cover gambling sites. So, we're making good progress in defining unwanted on-line activities already. If they additionally start banning people for file-sharing, why stop there? I mean, bad activity is bad activity, right? The logical step is then to also ban anyone who attempts to view the sites on the filter list, whatever they may be in a few years' time. I suspect the media industry won't be satisfied until everyone is banned from the internet, though.

    Buying a ship and heading off to sea is starting to sound more and more tempting.

    1. Re:Whoopee by fastest+fascist · · Score: 2, Informative

      well, that's another thing... It's secret, of course, and maintained by a single government official. Some people whose ISPs use the list have made an incomplete list of blocked sites simply by trying different addresses out and writing down the ones that redirect to the police notice that the site has been blocked. But in any case, in principle the list is not public knowledge, the police will not discuss the contents of the list at all, and so far it has seemed that if a site containing no illegal material should end up on the list... Well, too bad.

      In fact, most recently the police have added lapsiporno.info to the list, which is a site criticizing the filter list and maintaining a list of known blocked sites. The block came into effect after the maintainer decided to test the limits of the law and added the option to view the sitelist as a list of direct links instead of just seeing the URLs typed out. The police won't comment on any specific site on the filter list, but they do say that the law enables them to block sites containing illegal pornography with minors, or sites linking to such sites. The text of the law actually seems to contain no such provision about linking, and also states that the filtering is to be applied only to sites based outside Finland, presumably with the idea that sites in .fi will be shut down and the operators prosecuted. Indeed, it is strange that the police would choose to ignore a crime and instead of investigating, just block the site. Or are they admitting there is nothing illegal about lapsiporno.info, but blocking it anyway?

      My ISP doesn't fortunately use any filtering, and the usual method of bypassing the ISP's DNS servers will work, but still. Interesting times.

  39. Re:Lawmakers by Cederic · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Guantanamo Bay.

    Shit, at least we're just proposing disconnecting people from the internet.