US Group Calls Canada a Top Copyright Violator

eldurbarn tips a CBC story reporting that the US-based International Intellectual Property Alliance claims Canada has joined Russia and China among the biggest violators of US copyright law. Quoting: "The group's report is the latest to urge the US government into pressuring Ottawa to reform copyright laws." As we have previously discussed here, the current Conservative government had planned to introduce a new copyright law, but dissent from the privacy commissioner and a groundswell of public protest delayed that action. eldurbarn adds, "What makes this story so important now is that this pressure is being applied at a time and in a manner that may cause the Canadian government to fall, forcing an election." Meanwhile, on the other side of the rapidly heating debate, Michael Geist blogs about the forces arrayed against a Canadian DMCA. The Business Coalition for Balanced Copyright, which includes a who's who of the telecom, Internet, retail, and broadcast communities, has outlined a list of its copyright reform demands.

Comments

FUCK copyright law.

[jez9999]

Seriously, isn't that what you want to hear a politician just come out with? I'm so sick of greedy pricks in suits going around attacking anyone and everyone for infringing on their precious IP, and getting quoted in the media. Ignore them, for god's sake.

Re:FUCK copyright law.

[Yetihehe]

Seriously, isn't that what you want to hear a politician just come out with? I'm so sick of greedy pricks in suits going around attacking anyone and everyone for infringing on their precious IP, and getting quoted in the media. Ignore them, for god's sake.
--
== yetihehe ==
"My totem is too great for your desperate fighting techniques!" - T. Hawk (Super Street Fighter II)

Re:FUCK copyright law.

[Midnight Thunder]

Seriously, isn't that what you want to hear a politician just come out with? I'm so sick of greedy pricks in suits going around attacking anyone and everyone for infringing on their precious IP, and getting quoted in the media. Ignore them, for god's sake.

There are some politicians in the US who don't seem to understand the Canada is a soverign country, not under US rule. Maybe they do understand and are simply peeved about it. As a soverign country we do as we please, and we believe that copyright holders can either charge a copyright levy or sue copyright violators, but not both.

Re:FUCK copyright law.

[alan_dershowitz]

There are some politicians in Canada who don't seem to understand that their country is a signatory to the World Intellectual Property Organization treaty and are under obligation to meet a minimum criteria for copyright law harmonization with other signatories. Maybe they do understand and are simply peeved about it. As a sovereign country they are free to do as they please, but we believe that they can either remain signatories to the treaty or disregard treaty obligations for their own standards, but not both.

Re:FUCK copyright law.

[belmolis]

This is B.S. on many levels. To begin with, in many respects Canadian copyright law is stronger than that of the U.S. In any case, Canada has no obligation to conform to the WIPO treaty. Canada has signed the WIPO treaty but has not ratified it. Signing a treaty merely indicates the intention of the then current government. As the Hon. Jim Prentice, the Minister responsible for this file, commented, the relationship between signing a treaty and ratifying it is like that between dating and marriage. Nothing is binding until the treaty is ratified, and Canada has never ratified the WIPO treaty.

As to fulfilling treaty obligations, for the US to complain about Canada is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Take the softwood lumber dispute, for example. The US illegally imposed billions of dollars in tariffs and planned, illegally, to give them to US lumber companies. The US consistently lost at the NAFTA dispute panel, even though three of the five panel members were Americans. The dispute was temporarily resolved when the new Conservative minority government gave in to the US in spite of being in the right legally, but the US is making trouble again and there is a good chance that the agreement will not last.

What makes them think...

[IceRa]

that US copyright law applies in Canada??

Re:What makes them think...

[Sique]

No, the issue at hand is that U.S. or U.S.-style copyright law does not apply in Canada. And that's (according to IIPA) is all Canada's fault.

Re:What makes them think...

[Ubergrendle]

This issue is that lobby groups in the US are trying to influence trade policy, to force Canada to fall in line. Canada has had to keep up with alot of WIPO / WTO copyright changes over the years just to stay a member. The US could easily say "well if you don't honour our IP, we won't let you trade lumber...".

The US, being the largest economic superpower (still!), and our largest trading partner, has alot of leverage that they're not afraid of using. You know that softwood lumber dispute? The one that the US lost at NAFTA, WTO, etc time and time again? The US just stonewalled Canada...we eventually conceded some tariffs in the interest of saving our domestic industries, even though by every treaty under the sun we were free and clear.

Canada has a number of laws making copyright work for the benefit of society. I don't agree with all of them, but I understand their purpose. The first is CANCON, laws promoting the distribution of Canadian generated media based on quotas. e.g. Don't meet a quota, you lose your broadcast license.

There's practical exceptions too. Copyright is null-and-void for organisations translating media into formats that make them accessible to visually or audio-impaired individuals. e.g. Library can MAKE books on tape for subjects that might not be commercially availably; or they can reprint large font editions.

I worry that our relaxed personal use copyright laws are in jeopardy on a daily basis. Fortuntely the Canadian government is slightly more accessible to the public than the US congress, so we hve some safeguards in place. (note: i said ~slightly~)

Re:What makes them think...

[Tuoqui]

Yeah we signed those back when US copyright laws almost made sense. Since then they've introduced the draconian DMCA and other stupid laws as well. I fully support as a Canadian keeping copyright laws in my country the same because guess what IT WORKS PERFECTLY FINE FOR OUR POPULACE.

Breaking American Laws

[camperdave]

They are aware that Canada is a separate country, right? US laws do not apply here.

Re:Breaking American Laws

[srmalloy]

...and that Canadians pay a tax on blank recording media that was imposed to compensate copyright holders for the presumed use of the media to make unauthorized copies. So it's possible that either Canada has been holding on to the revenue from that tax, or, more likely, the RIAA/MPAA feels that the tax does not "fully compensate" them for the multi-thousand-dollar 'loss' from the existence of a bootleg copy of a CD.

Re:Breaking American Laws

[whisper_jeff]

"So it's possible that either Canada has been holding on to the revenue from that tax, or, more likely, the RIA of America/MPA of America feels that the tax does not "fully compensate" them for the multi-thousand-dollar 'loss' from the existence of a bootleg copy of a CD."

(slight edit and emphasis mine)

The RIAA and MPAA are not welcome to a single cent of the tax we pay on blank media. It's a Canadian tax. It goes to the CRIA ( you know, the Canadian Recording Industry Association) (and presumably other Canadian organizations).

Re:Breaking American Laws

[SimonGhent]

The RIAA and MPAA are not welcome to a single cent of the tax we pay on blank media. It's a Canadian tax. It goes to the CRIA ( you know, the Canadian Recording Industry Association) (and presumably other Canadian organizations).

Which presumably goes to support the likes of Bryan Adams and Celine Dion?

I'd rather it went to the RIAA, MPAA, Microsoft, Al-Qaeda or hell... pretty much anyone!

Re:Breaking American Laws

[shark72]

"The RIAA and MPAA are not welcome to a single cent of the tax we pay on blank media. It's a Canadian tax. It goes to the CRIA ( you know, the Canadian Recording Industry Association) (and presumably other Canadian organizations)."

Most of it goes to various societies and groups representing publishers, composers, performers (the CMRRA, NRCC, SOGEDAM, SODRAC, and SOCAN). Some goes to record companies, who may also be CRIA members. But none goes directly to the CRIA, nor is the CRIA involved in the distribution of the money to record companies or artists. It's a bit like saying that when you pay your doctor, it goes to the AMA -- perhaps it does in one sense, but that's not the most accurate way to put it.

For what it's worth, only Canadian artists and whatnot are eligible. While I'm guessing that the average Canadian pirate will have a higher percentage of Canadian music in their collection than the average pirate elsewhere in the world, my guess is that most of the music pirated in Canada is actually from elsewhere. If you're an American artist and your stuff is being enjoyed by Canadians who think that you're getting paid when they buy blank media, you're both wrong. Don't expect that check from the CPCC anytime soon!

This is why the Canadian levy is a terrible, terrible idea. It's nationalistic (as it kicks a little cash to Canadian artists each year), but it's hardly equitable. It's a tax on everybody who buys media -- whether they pirate or not -- and it gives many people the false belief that the artist is being compensated, thus legitimizing piracy. For Canadian artists, I don't believe the money makes up for lost sales, and as covered above, non-Canadians don't see any money.

How dare Canada introduce the DMCA?

[Malevolent Tester]

It's the British government's job to kowtow shamelessly to American commercial interests. Who do these colonials think they are? They'll be wanting to extradite innocent people next.

Re:How dare Canada introduce the DMCA?

[Tony Hoyle]

You're not up to date. The US no longer has to apply for extradition.. in fact it's perfectly legal for them to send bounty hunters over here, grab who they want, and ship them back to the US for tort.. err, sorry.. humane treatment. (Source).

It is of course not legal for the UK to reciprocate.

Non-sense

[aepervius]

Quote : Canada has joined Russia and China as the biggest violators of U.S. copyright law

Cannada CANNOT break (grammatically error on country placement inserted intentionally) copyright US law, anymore than an US as a country cannot break coypright new-guinea law . What could happen is that somebody could infringe on the copyright held by somebody else in another country, which means (if I recall correctly WIPO) that a Canadian could at most only break a canadian law on respecting other country copyright. A country can only break international Agreement (like WIPO agreement). So the above quoted line is wrong on the citizen [of the country] level, and it is wrong on the country level. Beside that, it is only propaganda from US copyright holder to put pressure on foreign government or require their paid-off US lawmaker to put pressure on those countries.

Re:Non-sense

[Selfbain]

That's different. He was breaking US law on US soil by shipping it out of the country.

Not invented here == BAD

[redelm]

Well, of course US lawyers might look at Canadian copyright law and find it lacking compared to US law. It will be unfamiliar, and will lack the Sonny Bono [Disney] quasi-perpetuity extention.

Please note that Canadian lawyers (who enjoy generally greater social respect) will look at US law and find it similarly lacking. But do not have the insufferable American arrogance to claim their national laws should somehow govern all.

Canada is a different country with different norms and practices. Superficial language similarities mask much deeper fundamental differences. In copyright, Canada has a CD tax to compensate artists for such personal copies. The US does too (Music CD blanks), but it is little enforced.

As long as both the US and Canada conform to WIPO, neither has reasonable complaint of the others' national customizations. Utter arrogance and extraterritoriality to maintain otherwise.

In other news....

[Sepiraph]

Canadian Group Calls U.S.A. a Top Humans Rights Violator.

Re:In other news....

[CmdrGravy]

I think you'll find that non US citizens aren't actually legally considered to be human and can't therefore be afforded any of the rights enshrined in the US Bill Of Rights and are subject to treatment in whatever fashion the US feels is appropriate.

Re:This seems familiar somehow ...

[techpawn]

(further verses are left as an exercise to the reader)

(further verses are withheld for fear copyright infringement)

There... fixed it for ya

I don't see the problem...

[Xest]

Isn't this something Canada should be proud of?

Personally I'd love it if they called the UK one of the top copyright violators in the world. Unfortunately our goverment seems to think right now that copyright is more important than even the people that employ them - the general public.

Violator of US Law

[whisper_jeff]

Canada is one of the biggest violators of US copyright law? That's ok - the US is one of the biggest violators of Canadian tax law. Oh, wait. What's that? The US isn't bound by Canadian tax laws? Oh. Interesting that. I guess that sort of thing tends to happen when your a different country and make your own laws...

age old recipe applied again and again...

[presarioD]

... so why the fuss?

It used to be done in secret diplomatic meetings and under a cover of foreign relations when big corporate interests dictated their agenda through government mouthpieces, usually with the threat of military/economic pressure looming in the horizon. Their favorite government of choice to carry their agenda was of course US. Now either because governments are too inefficient to flex rapidly or because vote-counting hasn't been "modernized" yet (Diebold anyone?) and most of all because even the most successful PR campaigns always take a finite amount of time to sway public opinion in desirable directions (e.g. took years to convince americans that Iraq was behind 9/11) corporate interests have taken it upon themselves to apply their gunboat diplomacy.

Who needs official government representatives meeting each other anymore when articles written by a lobby team in the US can bring a foreign government down? What is outrageous to the average ./er (not to the general public dare I say...) is that they can't believe anymore in the fairytale of corporate capitalism and what a wonderful world it builds for all of us. They see the signs of a vicious fascism creeping everywhere and how even justice and liberty have become commodities to be bought and sold to the highest bidder... well well well... bonne journée!

Being a Canadian citizen all I have to say is....

[hilather]

So?

This is just gold!

[Necrotica]

So Canada is accused of being one the greatest violators of U.S. copyright law. So what? We're Canada! As long as we're not breaking our own laws, I could care less what the U.S. thinks. We're also guilty of not giving the people the right to bear arms. Are you going to criticize us in the press for that too?

Concerns in our “information economy”.

[sidragon.net]

Do we follow Russia's laws, copyright or otherwise? Hell no. Who the hell do we in the US think we are?

People pushing for these laws tend to apply flawed common-sense reasoning that intellectual property is strictly analogous to physical property, and then build anachronistic business models around it. The United States economy consists largely (if not mostly) of immaterial goods and services these days, and many believe copying that property is tantamount to stealing goods from factories, for example. You can see how they might believe their interests are threatened and why they incorrectly resort to calling this “theft”, which differs subtly from infringement.

Re:Do you smell that?

[betterunixthanunix]

Economists love to talk about "loss" due to an item not being sold. Yes, according to economists, accountants, and the companies they work for, you can turn a profit and still take a loss. You could sell your entire stock, but it would be considered a loss if you could have sold it all twice as fast.

It is basically changing the meaning of the word, "loss." The record companies "lose $511 million per year due to copyright infringement" actually translates to, "had all the songs that were downloaded in a given year been purchased at the current market rate, the record companies would have made $511 million more than they did." For someone who is aware of the economist's meaning of "loss," this is obvious and the record companies don't seem that badly off (imagine if they said that they were actually spending $500 million more than they were taking in; they would be going bankrupt). For someone who is not aware of it, it is deceptive -- it makes it sound like the record companies are in serious financial peril, which is about as far from the truth as claiming that 2+2 = -8 i. That's what the companies want, of course.

Of course, even the economic sense of the word "loss" is dishonest, because the sales probably wouldn't have happened, especially in the case of students or people living in China (where the price of a CD is, for some people, equivalent to 1 week's pay).

Yeah! Canada wins again!

[loftwyr]

We're number one! We're number one! We're number one!

You other American law breaking countries never had a chance!

Again?

[IBBoard]

Canada is the top copyright violator (overlooking the 'minor' flaw that the copyright laws don't apply in their country since it is US copyright) according to some US group again? I thought Canada had had this label for years?

I say "good on them" for sticking to their own copyright system (for now). I can't remember the last time our (British) government did something that stood up against the Americans.

Re:Though fucking noogies

[Panaqqa]

You had me up until your "Hymiewood" slur.

And in other news...

[Jafafa Hots]

Saudi Arabia has announced that the United States is one of the world's biggest violators of Sharia Law.

And my response to both is the same: "tough fucking shit."

Sovereignty is overrated.

[Jesus_666]

If I was a Canadian politician I would point out instances where US citizens inside the USA violate Canadian law.


As a German, I can just point out that many Americans are in gross violation of German road traffic law (for example, they're overtaking on the right side all the time) as well as German gun regulations. Also, no American carries an ID card compliant with 1-2, PersAuswG (the German ID card law). Those violations have to stop immediately!

Also, most American laws are not written in the German language, which is at odds with the German basic law. What kind of rogue country are the USA?

Re:Sovereignty is overrated.

[Curtman]

If I was a Canadian politician I would point out instances where US citizens inside the USA violate Canadian law.

Capital punishment comes to mind. They are the killing people while they complain about us downloading a few movies. It's lunacy.

Re:Sovereignty is overrated.

[Em Adespoton]

You make a good point actually... Canada should respond with the fact that the US is in violation of Canada's gun laws, and that most illegal weaponry found inside Canada has been smuggled in from the US due to their shoddy (or in some cases absent) control regulations. It should further be pointed out that this actually affects people's lives, not just their livelihoods like IP violations.

THEN the discussion can turn to such harmonious issues as softwood lumber, fish and steel :)

When all that has been straightened out, there might be place for some discussion about harmonizing BOTH US and Canadian IP laws with WIPO (and not by changing the WIPO rules to reflect US law like has been done in the past).

FUCK OFF

[Bazouel]

Seriously, as a Canadian, I say FUCK YOU. Keep your shit south of the border, thank you very much.

We are sick and tired of this kind of arrogance.

Give Canadians the Services...

[jar240]

There are many entertainment services available to the US that aren't available in Canada. For instance, iTunes movie rentals, online network TV episode viewing, etc., Pandora's box (hehehe) are not available in Canada. If the US companies could get their sh!t together and figure out how to sell these services to Canadians, perhaps Canadians wouldn't have to seek entertainment fulfillment through other channels.

Chris