Slashdot Mirror
Government Mistakenly Declares Deaths of Citizens
superbrose writes "According to MSNBC, thousands of U.S. citizens have wrongfully been declared dead, due to an average of 35 data input errors per day by the Social Security Administration (SSA). Many other agencies rely on the data provided by the SSA, such as the IRS. People who have been wrongfully declared dead face many problems, such as rejection of tax returns, cancellation of health insurance, and closure of bank accounts. The article states, 'Input of an erroneous death entry can lead to benefit termination and result in financial hardship for a beneficiary.' Apparently it is far easier to declare a person's death than it is to correct the mistake. It continues, 'Social Security says an erroneous death record can be removed only when it is presented with proof that the original record was entered in error. The original error must be documented, and the deletion must be approved by a supervisor after "pertinent facts supporting reinstatement" are available in the system.'"
Just wait until everybody has ID cards. Having your card cancelled by mistake is going to really ruin your day, month and quite probably, year.
Do I have to pay back my credit card bills??
This might not be all bad.
Mever nind the typos.
Isn't there prior art in this case?
Netcraft certainly have a business model that would appear to pre-date this government declaring things dead situation.
liqbase
If you live in a state where they verify your SSN to make sure you aren't illegal, it wouldn't match up properly and you would lose the offer with zero recourse.
Not saying verification is wrong, but there needs to be some leeway for 'mistakes' like this.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Being dead can quickly ruin your life!
"I'm not dead!"
How are we in these United States different when compared to the so called "third world" countries - specifically relating to issues like these? I am inclined to think that they are better.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Sir, I congratulate you. The way in which you seamlessly changed the topic to a totally unrelated one which you preferred to discuss was incredibly clever and subtle.
Oh no, hang on.... my mistake. It was neither! Are you the Republican equivalent of those people who use any excuse to make an offtopic attack on George Bush? Seems like it to me.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Stuff like this never really makes an impact until somebody important gets hit. I remember one reporter sent a copy of the Minister of Privacy's phone records to her, just to show her how easily you could get ahold of somebody's supposedly private phone records, for just a small fee.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Wouldn't the "pertinent facts" be easily established by looking at the incoming documentation saying "Jane Smith, Age 83, SSN XXX-XX-1234 died on 1/1/08" and noticing that "Billy McAnyone, Age 30, XXX-XX-1243" is the one you killed? I mean we're talking about clerical errors within the SSA so their own documentation won't match- how hard is this to (god forbid) detect on their own, none the less validate after the living-dead point out the problem?
on second thought, being dead hasn't stopped candidates from running for office before
Don't forget, being dead hasn't stopped candidates from winning, either!
~Philly
Wouldn't they get a clue if you walked into their main office breathing and all?
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Lal Bihari .. for chrissake !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lal_Bihari
He founded the Association of the Dead
almost every time I come across a 'bug' in our ERP system, it's because a clerk did something wrong.
*That's* a bug in your ERP process. I've run projects that required large-scale, high-quality data entry. E.g., 600,000 French verb conjugations. Of the following factors:
- the extent to which the UI helps the clerk enter the data quickly and easily
- the extent to which intelligence can be and has been applied to detect errors in entered data via checks against other data sources and/or sanity checks, or to detect possible errors in entered data
- whether or not data was entered redundantly by multiple clerks and cross-checked
- how "wrong" the clerk was, that is, the overall error rate of the individual clerk
the latter was by far the least significant in every case.
That people type the wrong things sometimes is, for the most part, unavoidable. It's how you cope with that reality that makes the most difference.
In the case of the SSA, I'm surprised the false death rate is only 35 a year, I actually think that's an error rate to be proud of (out of 300,000,000 people in the US)
I'm a nature photographer.
Only if you could prove that you are you. So you know your SSN. Who cares? they don't know whether it is your SSN or you stole it from the guy you claim to be.
Sure. First, of course, you'd have to get a visitor's pass with your SSN on it.
rj
If they really wanted to cut back the errors, they should have had many more digits in the SSN. If they doubled the number of digits and assigned them in a non-sequential order, most erroneous entries would come back as not being assigned to anyone.
I retract my comment about the 35/year, obviously I misremembered what I'd read, the true SSA number is much higher than my comment would indicate. Mea maxima culpa.
I'm a nature photographer.
Mebbe, but how are you going to get past security? Tell them that since the govt has declared you dead, they have no power to stop you?
After all ... we can't have inaccurate records now, can we? That would be the road to chaos! And think of the savings. We wouldn't have to go on record recording changes to the records, and who benefit from such a record?
Why not set up an adminstrative comittee suitably empowered to, and responsible for, maintaining the integrity of the records? How about that? It would solve this little problem in record time!
The IRS identifies you by your SSN, too.
rj
what happens if a person makes a mistake filling out the paperwork declaring that they are, in fact, alive?
will the clerk sitting behind the desk hand the papers back to you, stating that you have not given sufficient proof that you are alive.
at that point, i would likely flip out and start eating brains.
Not her brain, mind you, because if she fails to realize that standing in front of her kinda proves that I am alive; thats not a brain worth eating.
-I only code in BASIC.-
Wouldn't they get a clue if you walked into their main office breathing and all?
Occam's razor has a bureaucratic counterpart: "All things being equal, the solution that means I don't have to do any extra work tends to be the best one."
You're still dead, friend.
yes, we have no bananas
How many of those "thousands" went on "spending a year dead for tax reasons" before bothering to clear things up?
At this point, he's more likely an Obama supporter.
Folks inside and outside the US can buy it in several different formats: http://www.ntis.gov/products/pages/ssa-death-master.asp
They tend to raise from the dead in an election year!
This is the most effective way to live "off the grid!" No more taxes, etc.
Think of the legal implications.
Its against the law to "mistreat" a dead body. So, no death penalty for someone declared dead. Also, since you're dead, they can't stick you in a jail cell (the state won't to pay to jail a dead person, and other detainees would have a good complaint, cruel and unusual punishment and all that). Heck, they can't even put the cuffs on you without running afoul of the requirement to treat a dead body with all due respect and dignity .... someone should take this and really run with it.
Of course, there's the downside. No more sex, since necrophilia is also against the law ...
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Well, I think they do have a procedure for it. It's just that having a procedure for something doesn't imply that the procedure works.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Then I could collect social security!
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
I remember an episode that happened about 10 years ago.
....
I live in a two family house. I moved from the first floor to the second floor. In the phone junction box, I just swapped the wires. I figured no problem. I called the phone company to tell them what I did (In the form of "I was about to do") and they said, no you can't do that. They have to send a technician to the pole in front of the house to change the wires and change their computer records, of course, there was a service fee involved.
I was pissed off, then it occurred to me, I called the phone company again to say that they had made a mistake and the phone lines had been wrongly addressed and would they please update the computer records for 911 service. The answer was O.K. Mr
Moral of the story, a "mistake" is easily corrected when it isn't merely "you," but another bureaucracy that has an importance. In the case of the phone records, it was 911 service. Screw that up, and there is civil liability involved. In the case of the SSI, I bet they'd adjust those records quickly if you said you were having problems paying your income tax and should you just refer the IRS to them?
At this point, he's more likely an Obama supporter
The thing is, Obama - through sheer audacity of hope and lefty rhetoric - actually can bring the dead back to life. Also, college girls actually faint when he talks. Now that's qualifications for being Commander in Chief, no matter how extensive is your opponent's collection of Pentagon-briefing-ready pantsuits.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
"You have to prove that the record was entered in error, sir."
"You mean I have to find the data entry clerk and get a notarized statement that he didn't mean to mark me as dead? What if he meant to do it, because he's become mad with power?"
"Then you're dead, sir."
"If I'm dead, why are you still calling me 'sir?'"
"It's in the handbook: 'All male customers must be addressed as sir, regardless of age, national origin, ethnicity, or disability.' I think being dead would qualify as a disability. Anyway, it's not worth losing my job over. Next in line!"
The deceased may simply request this by filling out the appropriate section on his 27B(stroke)6 form.
Perhaps the checks and balances should be in place to file an individual as dead. How is it possible to do this via a data entry error?
Does that mean that you can cash in the phat insurance check??
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
The Average Daily Mortality in the U.S. for Victims of All Ages, 2002 was 6706.
That implies an error rate of about 1/2 of 1%.
The mortality among adults under age 45 is much lower, of course, but still run about 3500 each week. In 1/5 of those cases, the cause of death may be most simply defined as "Other."
This would be perfect for those hermit types that live "Off the Grid."
No portion of this post may be rebroadcast without the express, written consent of Major League Baseball.
...when government declares you dead... you are!
Skivvy Niner? Email me!
HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
I think that it is a good thing that it is easier to declare someone dead than undead. Firstly, people die more often than they come back to life so it is a much more common thing to need to do.
Secondly, in this day and age of identity theft, you don't want to make it too convenient for someone to turn up claiming to be a person that everyone thought was dead. We aren't living in a soap opera, you know!
I'm not dead yet. ... I'm feeling better. ...
Perhaps the government knows something those citizens don't.
This is a bigger problem than the post alludes to. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) put in to effect a new rule, called the "No-Match Rule" which requires an employer to terminate an employee when receiving a letter from the DHS or the Social Security Administration (SSA), that the new employee in question doesn't exist in the SSA database. There is a period of 90 days in which to contest the no-match rule but if you're not on top of things, your employer has to fire you.
Right now there is a stay on that rule ordered by a district court in California, but it goes to show you some small error can have big consequences. See AFL-CIO v. Chertoff, No. 07-4472 (N.D. Cal filed Aug. 29, 2007. Apparently the DHS is looking into revising the rule.
More here
AdultZombieFinder.com: Bringing America's dead together.
Only on Slashdot would a Wrath of Khan quote get modded "Informative". {raises eyebrow}
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Yes I got the joke, but isn't the big problem that you need some way to prove that you really are the one you say you are?
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They're spending a year dead for tax purposes.
Just be glad you live in America. Other countries would probably find an "easier" way to correct the records.
lol: You see no door there!
Really great if you have life insurance payable to YOURSELF. Which not many companies issue.
.sig withheld by request
In cook county your name stays on the votes list even after you are dead.
Well, Since you are dead, but walking around, the obvious answer is to bite the security guards, then wait a few hours, then the security guards will join you as members of your undead army, since you are OBVIOUSLY a zombie.
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
"Pertinent facts supporting reinstatement?" How about "I am not dead" -- is that "pertinent" enough? Is holding a mirror under my nose to see if it fogs up enough, or must we get a licensed physician to take a pulse?
Actually, if you think about it, if there is this much time, verification, and red tape involved in proving that you are indeed alive once the "system" thinks otherwise, the government will eventually figure out that it's much cheaper and quicker to just kill you...
"Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." -- Eric Hoffer
And in general exposing all of these stored data and their links, including lookups, except when specifically prohibited by rare national security reasons (challengable in court, provided only under court order, creating criminal penalties like jailtime for each violation even by "a government agent").
What's really necessary is a Privacy Amendment. These personal data are already protected by the 4th Amendment, and even that is redundant to the lack of created any power to invade privacy in the original Constitution. But obviously we need frequent reminders, in updated language, to prohibit the government from messing with our privacy. So we should amend the Constitution to say
Then we might be safe for a while, until we need to do something like that again. Information and the line between private/public is the essence of all government power, so the government will always push that line for its own benefit. Therefore the people must always push it back.
--
make install -not war
See, that's why we need a national biometric database. :)
I think, the GP's point was, Americans today don't care as much — we don't share the Founders' paranoia. Probably, because we have not seen the problem firsthand in too many generations — thanks, no doubt, to the Constitution.
The First Amendment itself is getting chipped away — you can't fake e-mail headers (there goes the anonymous speech, deemed precious on this very forum every time some asshole tries to get away breaking copyrights), and you can't be helping a political candidate too much.
But Americans welcome these laws, because they seem to address an acute problem (spam, lobbyists with too much freedom of speech, etc.). We clearly lost most of that paranoia of 200 years ago... Don't even get me started on the Second Amendment...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I was declared dead once. The correction of it went somehow bad. Now I'm just undead.
lefty rhetoric
The funny thing is, I meant to say "lofty" rhetoric, but my typo/Freudian slip is actually more accurate.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Obama - through sheer audacity of hope and lefty rhetoric - actually can bring the dead back to life.
Actually, it's because he's the Messiah - naturally!
Wouldn't 99% of this problem - and many others - go away with a simple check digit on the SSN? Other countries (e.g. Canada) do it. Sure, it would be a bunch of work to issue everyone with a new 10-digit (or 12-digit) SSN, but the process would help to stem the current wave of identity theft. You could even sell the idea to republicans by pointing out that illegals here working with a forged SSN wouldn't get a new one.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile.
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
Homer: Listen here: my name is Homer J. Simpson. You guys think
I'm dead, but I'm not. Now I want you to straighten this
out without a lot of your bureaucratic red tape and mumbo-
jumbo!
Bureaucrat: [typing] OK, Mr. Simpson, I'll just make the change here...
and you're all set.
for tax purposes doesn't seem so farfetched all of a sudden.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
[Data entry error], nothing! You take one nap in a ditch in the park and they start declaring you this and that!
and I just saw Brazil for the first time yesterday
Compared to the Shrub, he IS the Messiah. Compared to Billary, he hovers somewhere around sainthood. Compared to McCain, he's the Prince of Peace. Compared to the Waltons, he's Santa Claus. I could go on.
Running and winning... but then again... the opposition was John Ashcroft, so how hard could it have been to win?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Indeed, I did screw that up. (I caught that and replied to myself with a correction and apology just after posting, but it's harder to see with the partial-comments display.)
I'm a nature photographer.
Make that Ig Nobel prize winner...
Exhibit 15: Model Notice to Offer Beneficiary Services, Pending Correction of Erroneous Death Status
From (http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicarePresDrugEligEnrol/Downloads/CurrentPDPEnrollmentGuidance.pdf)
I work in a related industry, and when we were working with these guys, this always stood out to me as somewhat funny. Actual verbage on the template letter is as follows:
Dear :
The records for Medicare incorrectly show you as deceased.
If you have not already done so, please go to your local Social Security Office and ask
them to correct your records. After you do this, please send us written proof at .
When we receive this proof, we will tell Medicare to correct their records.
In the meantime, you should keep using network pharmacies to fill your
prescriptions. If you use an out-of-network pharmacy, except in an emergency, may not pay for your prescriptions.
If you have any questions, please contact customer service at . TTY/TDD users should call .
Thank you for your continued membership in .
35 errors per day is actually a pretty significant error rate. There are about (8.26 / 1000 / year * 301,139,947 * 1 day) = 6810 deaths per day in the US, so they are entering or receiving about one out of every 200 records incorrectly. This means that about ((35 / day) / 301,139,947 * 77.8 year) = .0033 or one in every three hundred people will be incorrectly marked dead during their lifetime if this error rate continues.
... when it will be easier for the government to kill you than to fix the data enry error.
Have gnu, will travel.
If the government thinks you're dead, you don't have to pay taxes, any, none, zip, zilch.
The bank work around would be to buy a fake birth certificate, get the needed SS#, and you're home free to cash your paychecks.
I actually knew a guy that defrauded the IRS years ago and this is how he assumed a new identity.
No, it wasn't me.
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
I suppose she issued a statement urging the government to do a better job of protecting the privacy of officials.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Indeed, I agree that I had misread.... I replied to myself catching my error and retracting this a minute after I posted.
I'm a nature photographer.
Seems social security got my DOB. So homeland security started bouncing me. Took me 6 months to get it sorted out. Not fun.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The byline on the video clip accompanying TFA says "Does this woman look dead to you?". The clip is of some backwoods-redneck-inbreeder who does indeed look dead, much like Keith Richards. Funny indeed.
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
i remember in recounts they kept having to 'reject' dead peoples voting ballots, but how many of those 'dead' people were simply mistakenly declared dead by the SSA? i wager a good many of them are...
not to mention that when the 'wrong' person is declared dead, that 'means' there is usually a 'dead' person who Has not yet been declared dead. so that undead person can still receive say, social security benefits, which a family member who had been in charge of that persons finances (a representative payee, for instance) would likely be in no hurry to rectify the mistake....
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Though, depending on your chosen system of beliefs, not so many as those rightly declared ...
"... 'cause suicide is painless; it brings on many changes ..."
You could try Dr. Owen Harper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Harper
This sounds like a job for, dut-dut-duhhh: Six Sigma *ducks*
for tax reasons. Worked like a charm until they assessed the estate tax.
--Desiato HotBlack
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Is it murder to kill someone who's been declared dead?
I think Monty Python did a skit about this...but they didn't involve the government. That could add a whole new level of fear+absurdity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Interesting idea. Unfortunately, any savings would be offset by the addition of a Necromancer Division tasked with resurrecting those marked alive who are, in fact, dead.
They do, but flying fingers in data entry means the wrong guy dies in the database when the wrong keys get hit.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
George Romero's "Night of the Loving Dead".
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Being dead would definitely stop her from running, but being dead wouldn't stop people from voting for her especially around Chicago.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
With this information in the headlines now, a person could steal the identity of a deceased person and assume their credit profile by sending a forged "certified letter" stating "I'm not dead, please reinstate my accounts!"
My dad was declared dead without his knowledge (heh) and I discovered this when I was entering college and applying for student loans or a grant or something. I got a call from the financial aid office stating to my surprise that my father was deceased. I called my dad at work and told him the bad news - to which he replied with something like "That's why I'm so tired!"
It was a fairly straightforward process to bring my Dad 'back from the dead', but this was many years ago.
Joel
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
In India, it is fairly common practice for relatives to get family members declared officially dead so that they can get their hands on their property.
This unfortunate state of affairs is the reason that Lal Bihari from Uttar Pradesh, India, formed the Association for Dead People, to draw attention to the problem. Lal, who discovered that he was officially dead in 1976, took eighteen years to prove to the indian government that he was still very much alive.
He has since been awarded the 2003 Ig Nobel Peace Prize for his exploits, for "waging a lively posthumous campaign against bureaucratic inertia and greedy relatives".
News coverage in New York Times,
There are 2 problems with your statement.
From the article:
Laura Todd is not alone. She is one of tens of thousands of living, breathing Americans whom the federal government has wrongly declared dead by one measure, more than 35 a day.So it is 35+ per *day*, not per year.
Also, I wouldn't compare the wrong records to the total population of the US because it is the wrong number to compare to. You need to compare the # of records that are wrong to the total # of records that are modified each day. They don't modify every single person's record every day (or even every year). These errors occur when [from the article] "Social Security determines that an eligible current or future beneficiary has died, it closes the persons entry in its Case Processing and Management System, or CPMS."
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Yes, indeed. This is the fourth time I've addressed that mistake underneath the post you've replied to. Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, that isn't an exceptional error rate. Mea maxima culpa.
I'm a nature photographer.
Hey don't worry about it. I saw the other messages you posted about it afterwards. No big deal.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Thanks, and sorry if I came off a bit grumpy, my bad. Take care.
I'm a nature photographer.
They government just hasn't gotten around to killing them yet. With Military and CIA recruiting down due to a sudden stroke of conscience in the U.S. Population, there is a domestic backlog. This situation will be solved by the new north american union when canadian and mexican troops are brought in to stop the uprising that will result for the upcoming engineered economic crisis.
Records showing someone whose moment of decease can in fact be said to pre-date the record in the records can be amended at the time the discrepancy between recorded circumstances and the record became a matter of record.
In fact no revision of the recorded procedures of keeping record needs to be recorded, and proposals for a Necromancy division should, for the time being at least, be recorded as "filed".
It's certainly more economic than executing them outright. Memory holes and unpersons, here we come!
I am blonde you insensitive clod! They will skip me!
They search for brains remember!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
With Sandra Bullock, who looses her ID automagically because she's on to something... ... might makes one think how such events might happen in real life?
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Unlike people who really are dead, who no longer face any problems.
If we start seeing government employees as human, then we may have to see the government as an organisation of humans, who can think, reason, and prioritise tasks. It's only small leaps from there to thinking the government actually does it's job, and that the system isn't terminally broken, which, of course, leads people to believe that maybe there are other reasons why the government doesn't agree with them on every issue besides corruption. This kind of thinking leads to a positively frightening sense of social responsibility. It's a slippery slope; don't go there.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
If the IRS declares you dead, and you are not, they should be convicted of attempted murder.
Getting your life back after the government makes a mistake is a big hassle not to mention wasted money, loss of income, etc.
If i make a "mistake" in assuming am dead and refuse to pay taxes, would the IRS believe me or even forgive me? Am sure i would be sentenced to jail notwithstanding any "am sorry" arguments i may make.
Similarly, if the government or IRS makes a mistake, they should pay for it.
I recommend convicting the IRS commissioner of attempted murder for every mistake-death they cause.
Am absolutely sure that next year the problem would magically disappear.
Lets hope the congress passes atleast this one useful law (which of course Bush would veto, and the spineless dems would bow down).
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Not a laughing matter. I was once declared dead by SS. You don't produce a drivers or state ID and do your tap dance in front of SS. Your dead until they say your undead. They clamp your bank acct. closed, turn off your electricity and if you drive your going to jail for having a false drivers license. And there are a myriad of other chuckles coming at you. No credit! Mortage foreclosure, people trying to take you car and others trying to throw you out of your house because your not who you say you are. There's form that you have fill out with the SS. Make sure you file it before state officials abscond with your state ID. HAVE your birth certificate ready and in three months everything will return to normal. 20 years ago this happened to me. I don't remember the form number but, git 'er done fer Jesus because your be on the cross until you do.
This is the most effective way to live "off the grid!" No more taxes, etc.
Think of the legal implications.
Its against the law to "mistreat" a dead body. So, no death penalty for someone declared dead. Also, since you're dead, they can't stick you in a jail cell (the state won't to pay to jail a dead person, and other detainees would have a good complaint, cruel and unusual punishment and all that). Heck, they can't even put the cuffs on you without running afoul of the requirement to treat a dead body with all due respect and dignity .... someone should take this and really run with it.
Of course, there's the downside. No more sex, since necrophilia is also against the law ...
Actually, the NY Department of Motor Vehicles constantly threatened to fine my dead grandfather for a year or two. He had the gall to not return the plates from his van before dying (we never found where he put them). They sent nasty letters to my father and grandmother threatening him with fines, demanding to know where he was, wanting him to appear for hearings, and finally threatening to imprison him for contempt.
We wrote back or responded over the phone that he was dead. We sent them copies of the death certificate and other paperwork. We went in person with the paperwork. We sent them a forwarding address, just as requested, complete with plot number. We also tried an address care of St. Peter. We finally told them to go ahead and arrest him. At long last, on the phone with a DMV clerk, my mother finally got through to them: "The man is dead, D-E-D, 'dead', deceased, as in 'no longer living'. He cannot respond because he is in the ground, rotting." or something to that effect, while I sat in the kitchen practically wiping tears from my eyes and trying not to laugh too loudly. "Oh, he's dead! We need to update our records." The clerk eventually started a process to correct their records and clear up the situation.
The idiocy of government employees knows no bounds. I feel sorry for the intelligent people in government weighed down by the system. I have met a few, so I know they do actually exist. Poor sots.
After all this, my grandmother needed to get new ID to deal with certain government agencies. She had never had a driver's license, her birth certificate had been destroyed in a fire at the hall of records, and her proof of age was a census when she was a teen (where it turns out she lied about her age anyway because she was truant). The DMV refused to accept the documents she had to prove her identity. Finally we asked them what they would accept, and they mentioned a "Sheriff's ID". We went across the street, obtained a Sheriff's ID with the exact same documents, and got her ID card from the DMV. Somehow, I imagine the same mess or worse with "Real ID".
When I dealt with an estate, I had to present a death cert to close an account. Usually, a death cert with a raised seal. If the Soc. Sec. process allows a death to be declared with an errant keystroke, their process is sadly broken. This is an easy fix. If you hit the "deceased" button, the UI should immediately ask for a few basic facts common to all death certificates (name of physician who signed it, cause of death, etc.) or perhaps even ask you to attach a scanned image of the death cert for the record. Problem solved. Even the most brain dead operator is going to realize that they are not dealing with a death event, and they will hit cancel.
And no, this is not asking them to do too much work. This is just raising them to the same standards followed by most corporations, and do what they should have done in the first place.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. He's still alive.
Nothing inspires forgiveness quite like revenge.---Scott Adams
as a "victim" of the social security administrations "mistakes",
I can tell you that even after 13 years, there are still problems.
to this day, I still connot get good credit, nor can I get a loan.
getting jobs is very hard (not impossible, but still).
try opening a new bank account with a note on your credit report
from the SSA stating you are dead. not a chance!
I still get the "I thought you were dead" jokes.
BUT, this is no laughing matter.
oh yeah, the only proof the SSA will accept: valid ID and some other
materials. your ID ceases being valid when you are declared dead.
one last point: it may take up to 6 months for the SSA to correct their records.
guess that leaves you out in the cold huh?
now try it while being blind..... now that is a real horror story.
Understanding is much like a 3-edged-sword. in this: there are always 2 sides and the truth.
It probably makes it difficult for them to vote, however. So... last time it was "felon", perhaps the disenfranchisement of the year will be "alleged death"?
:P
It will soon be confirmed: Voting the way Diebold wants you to extends your life expectancy by as much as 10-20 years, statistically!
Not quite since the error rate quoted is for any error, however being marked dead within your lifetime requires the mistake to correlate with a living person.
For example you haven't taken into account when someone dies twice as a result of a mistake, or they kill of people like Jxo Blfggs (who presumably don't exist)
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this post is too small to contain.
They get tons of people walking into their main office daily, and the vast majority of them aren't you. Why should you be any different?
.sigs - is there anything they can't do?
Let get it straight. The person is declared dead by SSA, right? That means that everything else is ok, right? So, if someone with a really bad credit history, or that has filed for bankruptcy can take advantage of that and simply file for a new SSN. Plain and simple, brand new credit history (yet to be built, but new anyway). Lucky bastard!
Wait, I thought the writer's strike was over. Why are they still recycling plot lines?
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I don't know how I came up with five sums, especially since I gave the correct number in an earlier post. It's four checksums; three block-level checksums and one for the whole number.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Just commit some crimes, the police can't jail a dead person.
Yeah, I saw that before I finished writing this post. I just thought the magnitude of the error rate itself was still interesting.
The fraction of repeats is the same as the fraction of the population being incorrectly marked dead, and since the latter is a tiny fraction the former is extremely tiny, and is almost certainly dominated by other errors, so I didn't bother removing it. Besides, the headache of dying twice while you're alive should count double!
I presume that the Social Security Administration is at least competent enough to prevent such obvious errors as recording the death of an unissued SSN or a SSN that has already died. All I was attempting to do was point out the relative magnitude of the supposed error rate. There's nothign I can do about it not being the actual error rate.