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The Disconnect Between Management and the Value of IT

DavidHumus writes "According to a Wall St. Journal article top executives at most companies fail to recognize the value of IT, having a tendency to think of information technology as a basic utility, like plumbing or telephone service. The article lists five primary reasons for 'the wall' between IT and business: 'mind-set differences between management staff and IT staff, language differences, social influences, flaws in IT governance (defined as the specification and control of IT decision rights), and the difficulty of managing rapidly changing technology.' Does this fully explain the extreme lack of understanding of IT at high executive levels? The article is even-handed in apportioning blame but touches on a few good points. In particular, how '[m]ost top executives ... think of IT as an expensive headache that they'd rather not deal with.'"

67 of 333 comments (clear)

  1. utilities are important by bigdavex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to a Wall St. Journal article top executives at most companies fail to recognize the value of IT, having a tendency to think of information technology as a basic utility, like plumbing or telephone service.

    I think this comment shows a failure to recognize the value of basic utilities.
    --
    -Dave
    1. Re:utilities are important by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Depends on how often your staff has "Taco Day" in the lunchroom.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:utilities are important by Otter · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The point is that while water and electricity are crucial to a business, and providing them more efficiently helps the bottom line, there's no way for a business to get a significant strategic advantage from having hotter hot water*. The argument being made is that improvements in IT *can* give you such an advantage. (Of course, there's that guy from Harvard who periodically gets linked here arguing the opposite -- I have no idea.)

      * Yes, there might exist businesses that might benefit significantly from hotter hot water. Please spare me your nerdly nitpicking.

    3. Re:utilities are important by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 2, Funny

      and in the case of McDonalds, having hotter water can be a bit of a liability.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    4. Re:utilities are important by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Informative

      But does the plumbing infrastructure need to be redone every few years?
      Yes. If you try to "right size" your plumbing infrastructure, you will have to redo it every few years and it will cost you much more in the long run.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    5. Re:utilities are important by fredrated · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is exactly what makes the IT staff far more important than those who maintain basic utilities. The playground is constantly shifting, and if you don't recognize the value of those that can keep up with it you will end up with dummies that can't do the job.

    6. Re:utilities are important by ckaminski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Time scales are relative. Plumbing and electrical and communications (telephone) networks HAVE been upgrades every "few" years, few being relative, from 5-10 to 20-30. Yes, those networks do get upgraded constantly. The difference is, they are very mature compared to networking. We've had three major network upgrade waves in the past 15 years. From everything else to Ethernet, from 10BaseT to 100BaseT, and from that to Gigabit Ethernet.

      I know of several companies who are going to replace thousands of pounds of functioning servers simply because they've reached the end of their 3year service life. When we stop measuring server lifespans in months and do so instead in decades, we'll have matured as an industry. And then people will understand computers as they understand electricity, telephones and plumbing.

      They'll still call a specialist.

    7. Re:utilities are important by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think that is a terrible analogy. If your IT department is handled properly, it can do many things to improve the work place.

      Yes, TFA's whole point is that IT shouldn't be treated as a utility!

    8. Re:utilities are important by jsiren · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems utilities are surprisingly hard to understand. Drink a two-liter bottle of a caffeinated beverage and tell me plumbing has no value. Or get your hands dirty and tell me the same. Or try hiring anybody, let alone halfway competent, to a company that doesn't waste money to such worthless things as toilets.

      In any business larger than a small shop there are usually several toilets for capacity and redundancy. One can be down for a long time without an adverse effect, provided that it's properly sealed from the rest of the network. This bears a remarkable similarity to a setup of multiple redundant servers. In fact, a large establishment that gets large peak loads may have one or more clusters with several toilets, urinals, and sinks in a single room connected to shared plumbing; similarly, a large establishment that gets large peak loads may have one or more clusters with several servers, load balancers, and storage systems in a single room connected to shared networks. Then again, if you live in an apartment with just one toilet, you want it fixed pretty darn quick.

      If the availability of toilets goes down for some reason, the performance of the affected workers can be assumed to go down, since a worker on a "nature call" is longer away from their desk. Unless sitting at a desk is counterproductive, and getting up and meeting some new people actually improves results... At a customer service location, at least if food or drinks are served, it's important that a customer toilet be available. And if a toilet is available, it had better be in a working condition; a broken toilet is worse than none at all.

      --
      Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
  2. Maintaining the pretence of superiority by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Insightful


    They missed something off the list. One of the biggest, if not the biggest barriers I see is the desperate attempts of managers to pretend they know more than their staff. This is never more apparent than in computers and the painful experiences I have had with managers who have to try and justify a higher salary whilst doing something which, at the end of the day, is less critical to the production of a product or service than the people who are actually developing it, have left me with nothing but pity for those managers. It's a terrible burden to have to try and instruct someone who knows a lot more about how to accomplish something than you do, and it tends to result in interference or denigration. Only a few non-technical managers I have had have had the confidence or humility to just ask me what the best thing they should decide is. And they were the best managers.

    --

    Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    1. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by Shados · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, you have to realise how crappy at decision making most IT people are... If all managers had that "humility", even more projects would fail than they do now...

      Manager: "Hmm....well, on this decision, I guess I'll have to delegate to you. Now, honestly, what do you think we should do??"
      Dev: "Scrap the java codebase and start over from scratch in Ruby on Rails"
      Manager: "Hmm...didn't we work on this for 10 years and have millions of lines of code invested, including stuff that we can't readily replace because we're still trying to replace that last senior dev?"
      Dev: "Scrap the codebase and start over"
      Manager: "Well...ok!"

      That wouldn't go too well :) Now, some IT people have good decision making skills and can readily assist managers... but thats rare :)

    2. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by Linker3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      or in my case...

      Me: "I have fleshed out our draft spec for the new Web site through a series of phone calls and emails over the last few weeks and the developers say they will be able to meet perhaps 80-90% of what you want by the tight deadline you have set and then they will roll out the remaining features over the next couple of weeks."

      Director: "I am really concerned that the developers are so far away in another country"

      Me: "Distance is not really a problem these days - and in any case, I have sounded out several of their customers and UK contacts and they have all recommended this team. Overall, they can do the job for a very good fee + offer the after-sales support."

      Director: "I will think about it"

      Email from Director 3 days later at 8pm one night:

      "I have spoken to a friend and he has recommended a local company he knows so I have given them the contract."

      So, for 3x the cost and over 8 months late we got a half-assed, closed-sourse site with bits still missing.

      Boy do I feel valued round here. Thinking of moving? Funny you should say that...

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    3. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are Two Different types of IT projects.
      Operation Management Systems (OMS)
      and
      Business Intelligence or Decision Support Systems. (BI/DSS)

      OMS are the mission critical systems which need to run perfectly on time and efficiently. These are the programs that keep the business running smoothly.

      BI/DSS are jobs that try to take and represent data so it can be understood clearly without information overload. These systems run with margins of errors based a lot of statistics can be down for a few days or months without effecting daily operations. But their value is giving management and the decision makers information to make good decisions for the future. A silly app that seems to say track marketing calls how much time they take on each call to who. Then could be put into a Data Warehouse linked with the HR systems and Sales and find that some marketing people spend to much time with small customers and less with big customers who can greatly effect their profit and save on marketing costs.

      iT departments often have a hard time with BI/DSS because they are loose nebulous systems, that are continually changing and evolving, often run very slowly because they are using loosely tied togeter data, often in bad formats... But they do have a value, many times these values are the difference of surviving and dieing as a company.

      So I would take a step back if I were you and try to see what the value of the request. It may not be someone just trying to show that they are HIP with IT, but actually working for getting real value out of their IT

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I learned this lesson on early. Except it was more crude ....

      "It's not what you know, its who you blow."

      Back in the late 90s, I got a nice generic RFP for a website for a local business development group, and spent two solid weeks developing a detailed website development plan, including creating an ad revenue stream and offered it up for free to them. I wanted the contacts from the other businesses and figured that I would get some of those businesses. My bid was the only qualifying bid response to the RFP. So, did I get the bid? NO! Why? Because there was only ONE qualifying bid. They took my bid, respecified the new RFP based on many if not all of the proposals I had in my original bid. Did I get the bid? NO.

      And the business development group paid through the nose for a website that sucked and didn't meet any of the expectations. The president of the group asked me to join the group, knowing I was pissed and what for.

      His response, "That's business, get over it".

      I looked at him and said, "You're not getting my business, ever. That's business, get over it" The look on his face was classic.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    5. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by sharkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's not who you know or who you blow.

      It's how much you can swallow.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    6. Re:Maintaining the pretence of superiority by kotj.mf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Word. I've had more of a management role lately, and it's amazing what bullshit some IT folks sling when they assume the suit on the other end of the conversation is clueless. It seems to be most prevalent when the IT guy in question is relatively young, and while brilliant in some areas, he thinks he has something to prove in the areas he's weak in. Listen, chief, you're an ace programmer. That's awesome. I don't expect you to also be a senior Unix admin, SAN engineer, and a CCIE. So when I ask you a question that's beyond your area of expertise, don't lie to me. Wasting my time is a far more career limiting move than telling me "I dunno. Let's get some research and/or outside consulting." And FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, don't start a scorched earth, fur flying argument when a mere manager dares question your judgment. Unlike you, I've been in the industry for many years. Unlike you, I've worked at all kinds of organizations, large and small. Unlike you, our employer has seen fit to make me responsible for the livelihoods of you and your coworkers. What I'm saying is: YOU DON'T KNOW ME. I know that these kinds of IT folks are few and far between, but it's the ones who conform to the stereotypes that give the rest of us a bad name.

      --
      hang brain.
  3. No surpise. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The top execs are the true victims of the IT bubble and nonsense IT sales pitches they bought into that ended up just costing them and their company valuable time and resources. Add to that the possibility that they lost boatloads of personal capital on IT stocks, it should be enough to justify their phobia for the sector altogether.

    To us IT folk, the nonsense might seem clear, but to those who are targeted and easily confused, treading waters softly is really a matter of safety, not ignorance.

  4. IT attitudes by p51d007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps the reason some businesses "don't want the headache" is do to the attitude of some IT departments. In my dealings, some of them (READ SOME) have the attitude that they are doing you a favor, just talking to you.

    1. Re:IT attitudes by lukas84 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah well, it's not easy. I sometimes catch myself drifting into that habit after particularly stressful days. I work in a Small Business (~30 People) that is an ERP ISV and sells some amount of IT services to other Small Businesses.

      Dealing with customers is easy - they know that you're on a clock, and every minute wasted is THEIR money wasted. As such, most customers don't call unless it's important, and when they call they tend to keep it as short as possible. On site visits happen of course, for larger work or if the customers wants to (We have several customers that prefer to pay for on-site service rather than online service - nothing wrong with that).

      Dealing with customers is easy. Now, another part of my job is to take care of internal IT. With a large amount of technical people, we don't have any draconian IT policies - if you want to have local admin rights, you can have them. I will try to fix the problem, but if i can't all i can offer you is a redeploy of the base image. If you don't want to have local admin rights, everything will be maintained by us, and if something breaks it's our fault.

      This policy has worked really well for us in the past few years. But the problems mostly come with the non-technical personnel that sometimes have insane ideas, wishes, or no idea on how we are organized.

      "I need a new mouse" - "Ask your department head, i can't buy stuff, only your dept head can approve that"

      15 min later

      "x told me that you don't want them to get a new mouse"
      *argh*

      And of course stupid questions like

      "Yahoo Messenger Video Chat doesn't work"
      "Well, i don't care. You're allowed to install the software and use it according to our executives, but i'm not going to waste time on getting it working for you"

      "x told me that you don't fix their computer"
      *argh*

      Such occurences really piss me off, because I think i do understand that IT only has value if it improves the productivity of employees. I'm also willing to try and solve all the Business problems that we have, but i can only solve one at a time. And no, i don't care about Yahoo Messenger or some other such bullshit you found somewhere on the web.

  5. If only we were treated as well as utilities by Cerberus7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Where I work, our Facilities department gets whatever it wants. They take care of the generators, the lights, the A/C, etc. All things this place needs to keep running. We IT people get shafted at every opportunity because we "cost money," yet we take care of the servers and applications that keep this place running. Turn our stuff off, and it's as detrimental to the business as turning off all the lights. I can only dream of what being treated like a utility would be like. It must be nice.

    --
    I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
    1. Re:If only we were treated as well as utilities by jrumney · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps you should start encouraging equal recognition by lobbying management for pay parity with your facilities department.

    2. Re:If only we were treated as well as utilities by mh1997 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We IT people get shafted at every opportunity because we "cost money," yet we take care of the servers and applications that keep this place running. Turn our stuff off, and it's as detrimental to the business as turning off all the lights.
      That is the IT Manager's fault. He/She should be selling the value of the department. You don't need to sell upper management the value of a phone, toilet, or lights because they were sold the value when they were kids - at home. However, their home probably did not have an IT closet next to the utility closet. Sure, in the back of their minds they know computers help productivity, but the value of the department hasn't been sold.
    3. Re:If only we were treated as well as utilities by Cerberus7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You maybe are being sarcastic, but the average salary of our maintenance staff is the same as the average salary of our IT staff.

      --
      I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
  6. It's not just management by Sniper98G · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No one (management or not) ever recognizes the value of IT until they don't have it.

    1. Re:It's not just management by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unfortunately for those of us that keep our stuff together, they probably wouldn't notice because our services would keep working through the whole day.

      Who says that you can't simply turn of the services with a cron-script at midnight and turn them back on with another cron script when the day of strike is done? At least, that's how I'd do it.

    2. Re:It's not just management by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because IT can show you which sales people (who are treated like gods) are creating territories full of non-profitable customers.

      Because IT can not only allow- but make the customers eager to- enter their own orders- saving you customer service costs and allow you to do the same work with a lot less people.

      Because IT can take a 4 week manual process which sometimes completely failed and turn it into a 2-3 day process which is fully accountable.

      Because unlike electricity or water, IT changes constantly-- every single day-- and if your company doesn't keep up, the next thing you know you are a year behind your competitors and their costs are 10% lower than yours and you are hemorrhaging customers.

      IT is a lump of clay that can be sculpted into anything.

      ---

      We recently found out that one of the other non-IT departments basically wrote a "system by spreadsheet" which requires over a dozen people to maintain. Their director is protecting them from being automated by IT because he would lose most of those people. So don't come talking to me about "IT COSTS". I think it is really a battle for headcount among the departments.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  7. The Cost Of IT by Arccot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The way I usually put it, at least to my company, is that a good IT department can MAKE the company money, rather than cost it money. A good IT department can increase productivity of said company's employees, provide support services to customers (through the web), provide exposure to potential customers (again through the web), and fix the boss's home computer when his daughter breaks it. (Har-Har)

    1. Re:The Cost Of IT by peragrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IT is a constant drain on money. Plumbing, lights, generators, etc last for YEARS. the average Server hardware last for 3 years if your lucky, and then you need to triple the price for all the software upgrades, then tack on even more for the IT department training, and then employee training for all the new software.

      IT deptarments only cost money with constant upgrades, in hardware and software. Lighting fixtures have a one time cost, and then a minimal replacement cost.

      every 3 years all hardware and software is now useless and needs to be replaced. The real reason no one is moving to Vista. XP is finally starting to pay for itself for businesses who work on decade time frames.

      As soon as IT departments stop asking for money for new software every three months or to sign contracts for software assurance that last for years but provide no benefit IT departments will earn some more respect.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:The Cost Of IT by Quince+alPillan · · Score: 2, Funny

      You totally failed to include plumbing analogies in your post.

      When you originally started the business, you only needed a single restroom with a small sink and a toilet. When you hired a few more women, they started complaining about guys and their aim. To satisfy the demand for more restrooms, you added a second restroom so that you could have a Men's and Women's restroom. As your business takes off, you add more and more people and you add more stalls to the current restrooms. Perhaps a second and third floor with restrooms on each floor. Now, you've got so much water coming into the building that you can't get enough water to flush the toilets on both second and third floors at the same time so you add more pipes. Then, sewage drains can't keep up (and start backing up into the basement), so you add more sewer lines.

      Now, you're complaining that you need to upgrade the restrooms every three years and can't understand why plumbing costs so much.

    3. Re:The Cost Of IT by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you work that way, you deserve what you get. Most businesses don't need a whole set of new computers every three years, unless it's a tech business, and that's the cost of being one. Likewise servers...A 5 year old server attached to a decent drive array is plenty of file storage for most medium sized companies. What are you using your servers for that they're gone after three years?

      An intelligent system is to cascade things...Replace a percentage when you have to, and move the machines you replace down along the line to less critical functions. When the power users need new desktops (which isn't that often unless you're doing graphics or something), buy them new machines, and pass their machines down to people whose older machines are wearing out. Etc.

      If you're buying huge software upgrades all the time, you're being foolish. Either your primary software is under a support contract, in which case upgrades are free, or you're just buying tons of over the counter consumer grade crap. The former is a necessary evil, and the latter is an extremely poor business practice. And new software shouldn't be a continuing expense; software should be purchased based on a demonstrated need, and an intelligent evaluation process.

      Almost all of the things you say scream mismanagement to me. A three year cycle doesn't even fit the release cycles of most major upgrades, and no IT department worth its salt will move onto a platform right after release (which is the real reason no one is moving to Vista). Three year hardware cycles are too slow to be bleeding edge, but too methodical to take into account the best times to buy new hardware.

      You definitely have a management point of view. I suggest if your IT department is out of control with its expenses, you fire half the staff and slash their budget. If your quality of service remains roughly the same, you'll be a hero...If it doesn't at least you won't have to work at that company any more.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  8. I guess I'm Lucky by techpawn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The CEO was once an IT grunt back in the old days. So, yes the tech has changed but he still sees the world through the IT "filter" as it where. Many decisions he has to defend to the board and rest of management because they make sense from the business side for IT (such as hot swap backup equipment). The other managers see it as expense, luckily the CEO sees it our way (yes, it's a cost now, but downtime mean more cost later)

    --
    Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
  9. The value of IT to most businesses... by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is the same as the value of a toilet.

    - it is necessary to the functioning of the business
    - unless you are a toilet manufacturer or a landlord, it is NOT part of your central business
    - ideally it "just works", allowing you to focus on more important things
    - when it doesn't "just work", things start to stink.

    The difference is that it is unthinkable that most companies should have a "Chief Plumbing Officer", but the IT world seems to think that they need to be involved at the highest reaches of every company's management.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:The value of IT to most businesses... by bestinshow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If upper management treated the plumbing like IT, then you'd have a bucket to piss in and slop out every day, and the bucket would have a leak in it, but there wouldn't be any money to patch it up to keep the contents secure. The bucket would also be in the company basement, in a poorly ventilated corner next to a dead dog.

      Plumbing - you do it once, it lasts 25 years if not 50. The only upgrades might be for more efficiently flushing toilets and taps that don't drip. That's the equivalent of putting a 750GB hard drive on an original IBM PC.

      IT is an essential part of a modern business, and if it's done wrong the business can go down the drains. Wrong can be getting IT in the way of people's jobs, instead of helping them. Sadly this can't be avoided (e.g., third party clients demanding that you use IT for something that only benefits them whilst being a massive inconvenience for the supplier).

      I bet many IT guys would love to get paid at the rates plumbers get paid at though. I don't think they'd like the apprenticeship period though ...

    2. Re:The value of IT to most businesses... by Spad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Most businesses don't cease to function when they suffer a toilet outage, however.

    3. Re:The value of IT to most businesses... by blueeyedmick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The toilet analogy is a pretty good one, but it fails in one respect that is very important - few companies choose to design their own toilet. They assume that existing, simple, common toilets will work just fine for them and they assume that even if they chose to design their own toilet it would give them no competitive advantage. Now, examine software for a moment. How many companies would be willing to change all of their procedures and operations in order to adopt a standard off-the-shelf solution purchased as a commodity on the open market? How many would abandon their carefully crafted strategies and competitive practices in order to avoid special purpose software? To put it another way, how many would be willing to run their businesses exactly (and I mean EXACTLY) like the competitor across the street so that the two of them could use the same software "plumbing"? In my experience, the answer is NONE. And that's why we have CIOs and Technology Officers and the like slowly forcing their ways into the boardroom. Without them, the custom-made "plumbing" isn't worth the millions spent on it, and the company can't compete.

    4. Re:The value of IT to most businesses... by Iagi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not sure how you got "Insightful" on this comment. If any thing, to me, this shows the opposite. Management didn't choose the plumbing. In fact if you wanted to really compare it to how some companies manage thier IT would look more like this:

      Dept A wants to be hooked into the city sewage system,
      Dept B wants a septic tank because they heard it is cheaper
      Dept C wants to connect to the county's sewage system because it is new and therefore has to be the best.
      Dept D does not want plumbing at all because it is too costly and they can go use the other Depts systems.

      There you go mister plumber. Make this work.

  10. And how does IT view Management? by captaindomon · · Score: 2

    And how does IT view Management? Do they view them as nothing more than an employer? Somebody who writes payroll checks and should stay out of the way of IT? Does IT understand the value of business investments, legal contracts, general ledgers, due diligence, SEC problems, etc? I think in order for Management to care about IT, it is going to have to be a two-way street. IT and Management need to learn to work *together*, and that is going to require some understanding from IT as well.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:And how does IT view Management? by Cerberus7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I used to respect management folks. Then I started actually getting to know them and how they operate. Their decisions have next to nothing to do with what makes sense. Their decisions are about squeezing ever last drop out of the bottom line, all other priorities are rescinded. Need a new app to do task X? Get the cheapest one. It doesn't matter if it sucks, it's cheap and that makes Manager X happy because their year-end bonus, that's about the size of your entire yearly salary, will be bigger.

      --
      I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
  11. My personal experience with my IT staff by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    My IT staff are despised in our organization. They are antagonistic, have terrible (if not outright non-existent) customer service, and are generally a bunch of obstructionist pricks. Anytime someone makes a request of them they either refuse it outright or throw up roadblocks until the requestor just gives up in frustration. They use security as an excuse to be increasingly heavy-handed (to the point where technical staff like me have to work from home just to have access to the sites and tools we need to do our job). They have a "help desk" that, to my knowledge, has never helped anyone.

    Typical call to IT here?

    "Hi, I need to use X piece of software (which is mainstream and well-known). I can't install it myself because I don't have admin rights, can you install it please?"
    "Why do you need it?"
    "Well [insert many technical reasons here]"
    "Sorry, we can't install software that hasn't been approved."
    "How do I get it approved?"
    "Well it will have to go before the board, which meets every 6 months or so. And you also have to [insert about 100 roadblocks and obstructionist measures here]."
    "Great. Screw it, I'll just work from home again."

    If you want to know why your IT department is hated, ask yourself how you treat your customers. Do you treat them as your bosses, or as your enemies?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  12. On the other side of the wall by jo42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    '[m]ost top executives ... think of IT as an expensive headache that they'd rather not deal with.' "Most top IT people think of 'top' executives as a bunch of lobotomized, management-speak babbling, suit wearing, golf playing, secret handshake boy club members that we'd rather not deal with."
    1. Re:On the other side of the wall by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2, Funny
      Most top IT people think of 'top' executives as a bunch of lobotomized, management-speak babbling, suit wearing, golf playing, secret handshake boy club members that we'd rather not deal with.

      We dont just think it, we know it!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    2. Re:On the other side of the wall by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Funny

      '[m]ost top executives ... think of IT as an expensive headache that they'd rather not deal with.' "Most top IT people think of 'top' executives as a bunch of lobotomized, management-speak babbling, suit wearing, golf playing, secret handshake boy club members that we'd rather not deal with." And they never seem to disappoint us.
  13. Amen! by davidwr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Price != value.

    Basic utilities are immensely valuable. Imagine how much less productive your office would be if it didn't have phones, electricity, or indoor plumbing.

    The fact that these items cost only a fraction of their contribution doesn't mean the same is true for IT.

    The key difference is that most basic utilities are or have historically been regulated and their price set at the cost of production plus a reasonable profit. Where they are not regulated they are theoretically kept reasonable by market pressures or political pressures.

    Employment of knowledge-workers on the other hand is different:
    Each job is unique. Each worker is unique. Leaving one employer for another you hope will be better takes time and effort, as does "getting rid of" a less productive worker and replacing him with someone you hope will be more productive. For these reasons, if someone's pay, benefits, and working conditions are "close enough" to what both the employer and employee think are fair, the employee probably won't quit and he probably won't be "gotten rid of."

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  14. My own by iknownuttin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have a better one.

    Back in the early 90s when I was a real newbie, I asked an ISP if I needed a special phone line for a SLIP connection. Instead of just saying "No" and being done with it, the guy just kept asking "Why". I was not very technical back then and the internet was extremely new (to the general public) so I wasn't coming up with very good reasons. But still, he kept asking "Why" like some retarded parrot.

    Moral of the story is I developed a patient, not condescending, attitude to non-tech people when explaining things.

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  15. Disconnect from both sides... by Notquitecajun · · Score: 2

    The problem? IT people don't typically understand good business practices, how to make money, and The Big Picture. Management doesn't typically understand the overall usefulness of IT and how it isn't the plumbing and lights - they just know it isn't management or sales. When management and IT REALLY don't get along, there's a serious productivity disconnect that affects everyone.

  16. Well, on the other hand by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IT people often forget hey are a support, not line function.

    On the third hand, IT departments are often not staffed adequately, either in butts in chair or in the quality of the heads over those butts. It seems absurd to think about using IT to achieve breakthroughs in productivity or competitiveness when they seem to spend more time restricting the work that goes through the department than actually getting things done.

    The bottom line is that skill is distributed on a normal curve, and the vast majority of people are mediocre. That includes top management; most companies have mediocre leadership. When the leadership of a company is weak, there's not much IT can do to make things better. They really are just a facilities type function.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Well, on the other hand by plehmuffin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The bottom line is that skill is distributed on a normal curve[citation needed]

  17. That is not IT department's fault. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That is auditors or security departments fault.

    IT only allows what other people them is allowed. And normally the people saying the last word are auditors of some kind or another.

    But is it really a fault?

    You see it as obstructionist, but do you have the legal know how to know if the application you want installed is legitimate? Are you going to vouch for its security? (I have seen badly programmed applications, including FOSS ones, bring down complete networks due toe unintended denial of service attacks. Will you take responsibility it the tool you need does such thing?). WIll you put your hands in fire for your application in regards to viruses, trojans and any other nasties?

    The obstructionist attitude has a purpose which is to protect the assets and reputation of your company. If that pisses you off, though.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  18. Phones make people productive? O RLY? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Basic utilities are immensely valuable. Imagine how much less productive your office would be if it didn't have phones, electricity, or indoor plumbing. I'd be more productive without the demon-ridden telephone, as it would be harder for people to interrupt me.
    1. Re:Phones make people productive? O RLY? by SQLGuru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My message light has been red for months, it doesn't flash, so I can pretty much ignore the always-on light (it only turns off if I ever check my voice mail). I use a headset, so the phone only makes a short beep when it rings. I look at caller id to see if I want to answer it and if not, it won't continue to ring. Best arrangement I've ever had for a phone. The use is retained, the annoyance factor is not. Everyone who knows me (including business partners) knows that if they want to reach me, the phone is the worst avenue. Most of the time, they IM to say "can I call you".....of course I would love to answer "no", but alas, I don't.

      Layne

    2. Re:Phones make people productive? O RLY? by plumby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a big difference between suppliers not answering a call from a client, and someone not always picking up the phone because a co-worker is phoning.

      Personally, one of the most ignorant things I see is people who are in the middle of a conversation with you and just stop (often mid-sentence) to answer the phone, regardless of who's calling. I will very occasionaly do this, but only if it's likely to be an important call, or someone I've been trying to get hold of all day, and will always apologise to the person I'm currently talking to.

      Learning to treat the phone as a tool, not your master, is one of the most important time management skills I've ever learned.

  19. Good reasons? by iknownuttin · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Only a few non-technical managers I have had have had the confidence or humility to just ask me what the best thing they should decide is. And they were the best managers.

    I knew one like that. He got fired for not knowing some tech buzz word that I can't even remember myself. Many of those guys are defensive for a reason: maybe because of their own irrational insecurities or maybe they've learned the hard way not to look "stupid".

    Let's face it, if you don't know something, many, if not most, IT folks will be quick to criticize and pounce on the "stupid" person and give the poor bastard a bad rep that is almost to get rid of. I once worked somewhere on someone's code that I thought was designed quite well: it was tight, commented impeccably, excellent memory management (in 'C'), and it work as designed. I was told that the original coder has a horrible reputation as being "stupid". I just shook my head and said that I wish I were that "stupid". He was no longer with the company. He quit and got a better job - good for him!

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  20. IT should be treated as a utility. by miffo.swe · · Score: 2

    There's no magic in IT. You identify what you need and then implement it. If it doesnt give a significant gain in productivity its not worth dealing with.

    Most CIO's and techies tends to look at a new system and then start figuring out where it fits the organization. Thats completely screwed up and is the biggest reason why so many projects fail. The way it should work is that the people needing a function identify it and then the techies find a way to solve it as good/cheap as possible.

    IT is just a utility like everything else, there is no gain in overspending whatsoever. You dont buy 10 ferraris when you need one truck do you?

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  21. User Attitudes by alohatiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's a bad attitude, but it develops as a defense to crappy user attitudes. "You NEED to fix this!" is the cry of the user who did something stupid/inappropriate and broke his computer.

    Employees also tend to blame IT when they got caught browsing porn or running their home business at work.

    User: "My computer is broken."
    IT: "What's wrong?"
    User: "I can't access Myspace"
    IT: "That's because we block it."
    User: "You suck!"

    --
    Bigtime Consulting - "We're the best because we cost the most"
  22. It's quite simple, actually by joeflies · · Score: 2, Insightful
    To a CEO who is looking at the bottom line and the profit of the business, IT appears as a cost center instead of a revenue center. The CEO has no perception of how IT spending helps the business make more money. Thus, they are often motivated to "do more with less" and cut the IT spending budget. IT managers are also partly to blame because they act like a cost center ... spend all your budget or you'll lose budget in the next cycle, just like government does, when it would be far better to demonstrate how spending is not only in the best interests of the company, but it will also help them earn money as well.



    IT is not the only department that is misunderstood. For example, Ray Kassar of Atari thought that software programmers were a cost center too, and no different than assembly plant workers. He didn't realize that programmers were vital to how Atari makes money, and thus the best programmers all left Atari and went to start Activision with a business plant o make 3rd party software for Atari.

  23. "top" execs by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The top execs are the true victims of the IT bubble and nonsense IT sales pitches they bought into that ended up just costing them and their company valuable time and resources. Add to that the possibility that they lost boatloads of personal capital on IT stocks, it should be enough to justify their phobia for the sector altogether.

    So, we're talking about guys who
    -jumped on the latest bandwagon without thinking about the actual usefulness of IT for their business
    -or maybe were just afraid to look obsolete
    -and wasted some of their own money buying the latest crap stock because it had ".com" in its name

    Yeah right. Exactly the kind of guy who should NOT lead a company. Or at least only a company held privately, with himself as the only investor ;-)
    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  24. No, it is a disconnect in three ways by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When it comes to IT their are THREE parties involved. Those who build it (IT), those who govern it (Management) and those who use it (Employees).

    These three groups often have no idea what the other is actually doing.

    Have you ever seen one of those programs where the boss of a big company is put to work on the factory floor? They used to be pretty common, was there ever a SINGLE boss, who wasn't shown to be totally clueless about how the actual work was being done?

    You think IT is any better? How many people with the best training in IT skills ever bother to go down to the factory floor and SEE the REAL workflow before they implement a system?

    You got management trying to make decisions on how to improve a workprocess they don't understand, you got IT trying to implement something that has no basis in reality and employees forced to choose between actually getting the work done and following procedure.

    It doesn't suprise me at all that this article doesn't mention the workforce. Management article talking about proper management but ignoring the people who got to do the actuall work, yeah, never seen that before.

    Get your hands dirty before you even bother trying to think of implementing IT, FIND out what is REALLY needed. IT can do wonderfull things to be sure, but it needs to fit with what is really going on in your company, not what some manager thinks should be going on.

    Make sure your management decisions can be executed, first observe what REALLY goes on, plan your changes, then TRY THEM YOURSELVE, with FULL pressure. If you can't do it, your employees can't do it and what counts isbeing able to do it on the busiest day of the year.

    The most perfect example, testing an application with just 3 records in the database for performance. My job was to convert the old data, if I pushed more then ten records in, performance crumbled. Took me MONTHS to confince them that the problem was in the application, not my conversion (for every insert MILLIONS of reads were being done thanks to the most idiotic database design in history (no keys), compounded by some really really bad code). But they TESTED IT and it worked fine. Yah, 3 records and those not even fully fleshed out.

    I could rant on for hours about bone-headed mistakes of all kinds, but basically FORCE management to get a clue and the only way to do that is BACK TO THE WORKFLOOR!

    99% of IT projects that end up unused or not meeting requirements can simply be explained because they were designed without knowing what the real situation is.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  25. it's geeks vs. results!! by jgarra23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem isn't management not seeing the benefit of IT, it is the lack of management skills within IT leadership and the typical geek mentality which is counter productive to traditional business.

    I'm not saying that either one is better or doesn't have a place but workers in IT & particularly IT leadership need to start thinking that those business management classes in college are a good idea to at least take & listen in on. You're not going to convince the ones with deep pockets (upper management) to keep you around if you don't show your value up front to them. Sure, their practices may be antiquated but they are time-tested and in their eyes, work.

    Geeks are also going to need to realize that not all things are academic, business leaders expect results, not some elegant solution that looks cool in an IDE. There's that classic line from Ghostbusters I remember, "I've worked in the private sector. They expect results. You've never been out of college. You don't know what it's like out there."

    Maybe it's not that extreme but that is the truth, like it or not.

  26. I've seen it both ways by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen shitty and arrogant IT departments, I've seen friendly ones.

    The people who say IT is mostly support, they have it exactly right. IT is a support function unless the business's main product is IT. Stupid management always devalues the workers, the people who keep the place running. In this regard, IT is not special. Sometimes IT is staffed by arrogant asses who deserve to be mocked, just like you can have rude janitors or marketing weenies. Again, nothing new here.

    In a healthy organization, IT's attitude is "How do we make things better?" I'm always the Excel go-to guy since most people don't have the time to learn all the tricks. I'm fine with that. I've got a thousand tricks and most people only need to know a few of them. I set their sheet up the way they need it, they'll learn just the tricks they need and will be happy.

    IT is always lacking for resources? Most departments are. My dad worked as a mechanic for the phone company motor pool and he was constantly complaining about how they had to make bricks without straw. Management saw them as nothing more than a cost center, never appreciating the value they provided. They increased the average age of the fleet from 10 to 20 years. Oh, that's great. Yes, you're cutting down on procurement costs but did you notice how maintenance is skyrocketing? No, that chart wasn't in the meeting. That's great.

    Good IT makes itself available to the business, makes things run more efficiently and is invaluable. Ask the workers or management what would happen if the IT staff all got hit by a bus. If the response is "Oh my God, we'd be so fucked," that's a good IT department. If they just get this wistful little smile on their faces, that's a bad IT department.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  27. Re:Bad comparison by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Funny

    sensitive/urgent/otherwise critical

    I'd suggest that there are often times that those can be applied to the needs associated with the toilet.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  28. Vendors and Management are the problem. by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Upper management should be disallowed from having vendors talk to them unsupervised. The real value in IT is solving business problems. Many times what happens is upper management has been sold a solution by a vendor that doesn't really solve any particular problem, and then we are forced to implement it. In pretty much every case, when this happened to me, I could have led projects to do it cheaper, faster, AND better. I swear, the manager at my last company had stock in Cisco, and the Director (of course) in Microsoft.

    If management had instead gone to IT and said "This is what we need to do" then the real value of IT comes to light as we can work on a solution to that problem, or maybe even give some insight into "Well, with technology, that problem is actually this..let's solve that".

  29. Personal observation evolution of IT over 30 years by JustNiz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been a software developer for over 30 years. Back in the day, the usual IT department even in a large comapny was one or two guys who knew about setting up unix networks.

    Then Microsoft became popular as a desktop environment. The low quality of their entire product range combined with very poor documentation caused in most companies one or two people (usually developers who had played with windows in their spare time) to emerge as the unofficial domain experts on solving microsoft-specific issues.

    Microsoft very quickly realised this and enocuraged this model as it mitigated the need for them to provide support for their own products. That combined with the fact that Microsoft jumped on the 'professional certification' bandwagon led to them creating hundreds of new IT job titles and certifications for them that until then no-one had ever even heard of before, let alone actually needed. Fast forqward a few years and now most IT-driven companies are working under the illusion that there needs to be masses of IT staff usally with different Microsoft certifications to support a simple computer network, which has become a self-fulfilling prophecy beacuse the office network in most places has been made unnecessarily complex by the same Microsoft-trained IT staff, apparently partly as job-preservation and partly to get around the technical shortcomings of Microsoft operating systems and products. now many IT departments have transitioned to an incorrect yet frequently-encounterd mentality that they now believe that their role is to be gatekeepers rather than just to provide a service to the people in comapnies that actually make the companies product or service.

    My point is, that given the above, I think that if anything, management generally massively overvalue IT departments.

    I've seen in most companies that the IT dept get larger budgets than entire production departments, IT employees usually get top-end PC's with widescreen monitors etc. to answer their emails on while developers and engineers, the guys actually making the product, are struggling to compile code bases on hand-me-down hardware.

  30. I know, I know... by RobDude · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is slashdot and all; but this is basically just an IT circle jerk where we talk about how unvalued we are and how nothing could happen without us.

    'Value' is determined by the market. If companies that 'valued' IT were making buckets more money than companies that don't; then you'd see a trend where all companies want IT.

    The simple fact of the matter is, as much as it might hurt us geeks (I am, after all, IT myself); unless you are at a Software Company whose job it is to product software or something along those lines; IT is just a secondary consideration.

    I used to work at Allstate.

    Allstate sells insurance.

    To sell insurance well, Allstate may very well need things like Electricity, plumbing, and IT. But IT has nothing to do with it's core business. Long before computers were commonplace, Allstate's business model existed, and Allstate made money.

    IT doesn't 'bring in money'. At best, you could say that IT let's customers more easily pay or enroll for a service; but, all of the competators do it too; so it's just a big wash. Allstate's IT is no different than it's cleaning staff - it is a cost of doing business.

    And to every Exec (with the possible exception of a CTO), one IT guy is as good as any other IT guy. As long as the servers are running nobody cares. /Truth

  31. The real problem is that IT is hard by willllllllllll · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The real problem is that IT is hard - hard to define requirements - hard to predict benefits - hard to predict timelines compared to employing more people.

    Top-level management are usually people people; that's why they did MBAs rather than get real qualifications. Top-level management already have a head full of business domain knowledge (if you're lucky) and techniques for climbing the greasy pole (usually), and have to spend time on inter-company and inter-manager warfare.

    I have consistently had problems getting clients to think about how their business works. They have got along for years without having to worry about it because they delegate responsibility to lower-level managers, who in turn delegate to the workers; between them, the various levels of management and employees use their brains and get the job done.

    IT isn't like that - you tell a computer to do X and it'll do X, even if it should 'do X unless [really complex exception case], in which case do Y'. So there is an upfront cost to IT of defining what and how the business really does, and then checking it and checking it again. Worse still, form the POV of top management, this requires that the value of the knowledge of the lowest-level staff is acknowledged, while at the same time showing how little the top managers understand the details of their business - WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED: the top-level guys are paid for direction not operational detail. But people being people, any deficiencies are implicitly taken to be criticism and can be used in inter-manager warfare.

    I'd like to note that mitigating these factors is a large part of what led to Agile. But Agile admits that it can fall into the 'hard to predict' trap, whereas waterfall and 'glittering phalanx' claim not to.

    1. Re:The real problem is that IT is hard by willllllllllll · · Score: 2, Funny
      'glittering phalanx' is the Anderson Consulting approach

      .

      phalanx :- launch a large block of andersons at the problem

      glittering :- the andersons are so expensive you'd expect them to be gold-plated

      .

      An anderson is one of the many faceless employees of Anderson Consulting.

  32. I wish I was treated like a plumber by jitterysquid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't constantly second-guess my plumber; I treat him and his solutions with respect because he knows more than I ever will about plumbing. I pay my plumber a lot of money for his expertise.

  33. Re:Personal observation evolution of IT over 30 ye by starfishsystems · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I like what you wrote there, as I have a similar background and saw the same general trend happening over that time period. But my interpretation is a bit different. I'll offer it for contrast.

    Unix became enormously popular at a time when networked computer hardware was reliable and readily available, but still quite expensive. Software licenses for these systems were comparably expensive. Those economics allowed organizations to justify hiring highly competent staff in order to maximize return on investment. The culture was inherited to some degree from the mainframe culture, driven from the top down, and partly from a research culture, driven by design and engineering principles, to support a reliable multiuser environment with good access controls and other security measures.

    Microsoft entered into this environment from the extreme bottom end of the scale. It was all about cheapness. No multiuser model, therefore no access controls, and well, conspicuous neglect of security. One of the tricks, I would say, for creating a perception of affordability was that users were expected to maintain their own systems, a situation which persists at many sites to this day. The real cost of managing these systems, dealing with misconfiguration and security issues and so on, can therefore be hidden, though doing so leads to all sorts of trouble and unrealistic expectations.

    As these systems become more complex, the need for more expert system administration becomes greater and more difficult to hide. But these same systems are also becoming cheaper, so the relative cost of system administration goes up and also becomes more difficult to hide.

    Compound this with the further complexity and brittleness of retrofitting multiuser security, and there will be plenty of dissatisfaction to share around. I don't envy the users who have to endure these systems and the quality of support that goes with them, nor the staff who have to support them. It's a real shame. Which is why I ended up as an open source guy.

    To come back your point about management overvaluing the IT department, I end up thinking that it's a bit like the dilemma we face with valuing a police force that is not as effective as we'd like it to be. This question troubles me greatly. Some police departments, like some IT departments, are frankly dysfunctional. How can we possibly fix them? By tying funding to performance? I think so, but too much funding creates complacency and too little creates despair. From where I stand, IT departments are all too often in the despair zone, and that does nobody good. I wish that I could be as clear about policing. Perhaps someone else can make that point.

    --
    Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.