Blu-ray Player Prices Hit 2008 Highs

An anonymous reader writes "HD DVD is almost gone and Blu-ray prices are already on their way up. TG Daily went through average retail prices of some of the popular Blu-ray players and found that you should expect to pay at least $400 for an entry-level Blu-ray player, while you could get a player for less than $330 in February. It really should not be a surprise for all of us, but it is interesting to see how quickly retail adjusted to the new situation and increased prices."

Comments

PS3

[Enderandrew]

Meanwhile, there are rumors that once the PS3's start rolling out with 45nm CPUs and GPUs that they will drop $100 in price.

$400 for an entry-level player, or $400 for the PS3?

Re:PS3

[Rezell]

I recently bought a PS3 for it's Blu-ray capabilities and it's ability to adjust to changing standards through firmware downloads. I didn't buy it because I wanted PS3 exclusive titles, I bought it because it made the most sense per dollar in terms of watching HD movies. It should be noted that my decision to buy a PS3 was preceded by my purchase of a high end HDTV television. I've been impressed with the PS3 in terms of hardware, compatibility with my WinXP 2003 x64 and media server (don't flame me for running the nightmare ;), and general design. It's quiet and doesn't heat up enough to cause alarm even when used during extended periods. Two days before my PS3 arrived bad things started to happen, my 360 Elite burned up the GPU. So now I sit and play my PS3, which is admittedly deficient in online play when compared to XBL, yet I'm thinking about selling my 360 Elite and all my games. What good is a console if I have to treat it like frail child? I haven't had my 360 for nearly a month due to repairs, yet MS offers one free month of live while still charging me for the current month that my console is in warranty and under repair. Sony has a lot of ground to cover in terms of installed console user-base, but Blu-ray and a system that doesn't break when you look at it funny might just be their ace in the hole.

Not so fast.. HD VMD the next contender?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/technology/10dvd.html?ref=business out..

From article: A new system that is incompatible with Blu-ray, called HD VMD, for versatile multilayer disc, is trying to find a niche. New Medium Enterprises, the London company behind HD VMD, says its system's quality is equal to Blu-ray's but it costs less. By undercutting the competition in production, replication and hardware costs, it thinks it can find a market among consumers with less disposable income, particularly outside the United States.

I have my doubts, but it would be interesting to see what it could possibly bring (and a jab at Sony is always a "check plus" in my book)

So much for rapid adoption

[foxalopex]

I would have thought the Blu-Ray group would have liked faster adoption after the demise of HD-DVD but it seems by keeping prices high they might end up slowing themselves down. What would be even more ironic is if the Blu-Ray group collapses themselves in a few years due to lack of demand. That would be a good laugh.

Still competing with DVD

[PIPBoy3000]

If people continue to purchase DVD players (which are easily under $100), the Blu-ray player prices may drop after a few months. For many people, the quality of DVDs are just fine and they don't have the massive television displays to support them anyway. The cynic in me thinks we're seeing a price hike so stores get the cash from all the early adopters who bought HD-DVD and now feel obligated to buy a Blu-ray player.

Re:Still competing with DVD

[debest]

I am getting kinda tired from this meme (referring to DVD being "good enough")

Hey, I agree that HD is tangibly better than standard DVD. But for me (and a whole bunch of other people), it is not nearly enough better to justify switching media formats (and, necessarily, upgrading hardware that is already paid for and working perfectly well).

And while I have no gripe with Blu-ray peacefully coexisting with DVD, what I fear is that Blu-ray gets enough penetration that the industry can start ignoring the DVD format (VHS started dying off seriously when tapes stopped being distributed for new movies). When a studio is able to justify releasing a "Blu-ray exclusive" title, DVD will be toast quickly. Then I'll be stuck with an unsupported format that will continue to be "good enough" (for me, anyway) for years and years to come. I really, really don't want to deal with new un-rippable, premium-priced discs that will force me to buy a new player at minimum (and a new TV to see any benefit at all).

Sure, this won't happen for awhile yet (heck, DVD may yet outlast Blu-ray in the market), but the swift end to the HD format war means that Blu-ray has much more of a chance of supplanting DVD.

Re:Still competing with DVD

[Miguelito]

VHS started dying off seriously when tapes stopped being distributed for new movies It took several years for that to happen though. There were still tons of movies produced on VHS for a long time, mostly to rental stores. The reality was that those who actually bought movies, vs just renting, overwhelmingly migrated to DVD quickly. I've had a DVD player (first was Creative's first DVD kit for the PC) since late 1997 and since I started buying movies I really liked, I completely stopped getting VHS. But until DVD really took off in rental stores, VHS still had a pretty large market. VHS isn't completely dead either... though it's got far less studio support anymore. Hell, I remember that for a good decade plus after VHS "won," you could still get movies for projectors (never was as simple as buying tapes or DVDs are of course, and I don't mean theater sized projectors)... 4th grade teacher at my grade school used to buy a movie for the whole school to watch each year around the end of the school year. Only one I really remember was Tron.. and that was maybe a year after it was in the theaters.

DVD movies had the bonus in the early DVD days that often movies were held back from retail release (gotta artificially create those "rental windows" for Blockbuster and the like) were released on DVD right away.

Blu Ray might eventually supplant DVD, but it won't happen until the players come down in price a lot as well as movie prices drop. The players eventually will, remember that DVD players remained pretty expensive for the first year (or two) after the format first came out, then dropped fairly rapidly. Disney pushing it's library out on BR only might have a big part to do with it.. if they take that risk and do it. Wouldn't surprise me at all though, they love getting people to buy their stuff again, and using crap like "we're only opening the vault for this short time" to scare parents into buying a movie so their kids can have it.

The biggest hurdle that Blu Ray is really going to have, is convincing people that it's worth changing. It was a no-brainer from VHS to DVD.. no rewinding, better video quality, no degradation of the quality over time, chapters, etc. Blu Ray is more of a evolutionary step vs the revolutionary step that DVD was.

For the curious.. I have both HD and BR. I have a PS3 and a 360 with the add on. I preferred BR from my first experience with it (several months after I'd already had the HD add-on). Yes it's anecdotal, but I've had numerous issues with HD playback, HDi content and discs damaged to unplayable out of the case, vs nothing but flawless playback and features on the BR side. Not to mention 2 failed 360s already (not 1st run, one was an elite).. but that's a different rant. :)

Oh, and I only buy the BR copies of things that I care to see/hear in HD, I still overwhelmingly buy DVD.

Re:Still competing with DVD

[shoemilk]

I'm assuming, like a another poster, by meme that you mean "DVD is good-enough". I hate to tell you, but like DRM, it is. I was an early adaprter to DVD, I remember shelling out a lot of cash to replace my VHS collection and the main reason I did it wasn't because of the quality, it's because it took up less physical space and I didn't have to rewind when I was done. Audio DVDs are supirior to CDs, but they're nothing more than a neiche market, just like Bluray will be.
Throughout this "war" , I asked people around me if they'd ever heard of blu-ray or HD DVD, not only had the majority not heard of them, but a lot of thought blu-ray was blue tooth.
I'm back in Japan now and there's huge push for blu-ray at the electronic stores. They have two 42" HD Tvs next to each other, one plays blu-ray, the other plays "DVD". Both of them are recordings off of an HD channel. Even my wife, who has zero interest in technology walked in and said, "Wow, what super crap low quality setting did they record that DVD on?"
Personally, I think it's hallarious that the supposed advantage of this stuff is for the better quality but you can by HD DVD/VHS combo players.

Wait till the spec shakes out

[powerlord]

I'm not really surprised but this, but not because HD-DVD is dead.

Blu-Ray recently add the "Profile 1.1" and "Profile 2.0" specs to their list (and yes, to all you HD-DVD supporters playing at home, Profile 2.0 does FINALLY bring Blu-Ray to feature parity with HD-DVD). Also, as we've been reminded time and again (especially by posters on /.), what percentage of TV owners even OWN an HDTV that could benefit from a next-gen format?

Once the specs have settled a little, and as HDTV adoption increases, I'd expect to see economies of scale kick in (as opposed to the price war going on between the BD camp and the HD-DVD camp).

Something else to keep in mind though, is that the PS3 is probably going to be leading the charge in the price war for the next few years.

If $400 is the average price for a BD player, then the $400 PS3, as a current "Profile 1.1" and guaranteed future "Profile 2.0" player (according to Sony's press release from last years E3), makes it a steal as the best priced (and more "future-proof") unit. On the other hand, so long as the PS3 is competing with the XBox 360, they can not keep the price that much higher than their competitor, and they MUST include the Blu-Ray Drive, since PS3 games are shipped on BDs.

It'll be interesting to follow the market as a whole as the PS3 ages into its life cycle, the price drops, and HDTV adoption increases.

  (I know at least 5 people in the past week that have finally decided to look into HDTVs that didn't know anything about it. Yes this is anecdotal evidence, but its more people than I have personally seen looking at getting an HDTV at a given time.)

Re:Great- no more format war!

[the_other_chewey]

This monopoly is so much better for the consumer.

Yeah, because we all know this evil DVD monopoly drove DVD player
prices to insane heights...

Seriously, this is basic supply and demand at work (more would-'ve-bought HD-DVD
buyers now go for BluRay) and will certainly improve over a probably rather short time.

hmm

[greywire]

this probably wont happen, but:

What if by declaring hd-dvd dead it causes hd-dvd to become more popular than blu-ray?

By this I mean, the prices of drives are dropping because they are getting rid of them. The movies, too. At the same time, blu-ray is going up.

Will a lot of people even know that hd-dvd is dead? They will just see how cheap it is.

If this were timed right, hd-dvd could hit a critical mass very quickly. Yes they'd lose a bunch of money on the current supplies, but that's going to happen anyway. If at the right time they could resurect it and keep the prices way below blu-ray they could make a comeback. In the mean time they don't really have to waste money on advertising etc.

Myself, I would buy an hd-dvd burner and media right now if the prices were really low, just for storage purposes. They should continue to sell them for pcs for storage purposes.

Just a crazy idea. And what a coup it would be...

Re:hmm

[greywire]

Just a little too much wishfull thinking I guess.

I just despise Sony and their formats...

Re:hmm

[m4cph1sto]

I for one am enjoying my growing collection of $13-15 HD-DVDs on my $130 HD-DVD player (which I bought to replace an old broken DVD-upscaler). In a few years there will probably be enough good titles available only on blu-ray that I'll be interested in buying a blu-ray player. Or a PS3. And by then I'll probably get either one for under than $200.

Am I happy that my format of choice lost the war? No. But I'm not particularly upset about it either. In fact I think I'm getting a pretty good deal out of this situation.

What about the media?

[rworne]

I was buying blu-ray right and left in late 2007. Since Feb '08 I have not bought a single title. Why? Prices of media jumped beyond my threshold and I went back to DVD.

I find it hard to buy titles like "No Country for Old Men" for $26.00-29.99 on Blu-Ray when the same title can be picked up for less than $14 at Target on DVD. Another gripe is high prices on back-catalog titles I already own on DVD. Sorry, I will not buy a $26+ BR title when I have already purchased the same title on DVD two or more years ago.

When retailers start aggressively pricing media again, I'll go back to buying the format. Otherwise upscaled DVD looks quite good on my PS3.

I'm making out like gangbusters

[EmagGeek]

I have both players, so I've been soaking up HD-DVDs dirt cheap since Toshiba threw in the towel.

One thing that has been observed since Toshiba's decision is that sales of players and movies have SKYROCKETED, and Toshiba has been reported to be reconsidering their decision.

This war may not be over just yet...

Re:Great- no more format war!

[robertjw]

This time its different because the blu-ray consortium is not giving licenses to tom-dick-harry shop in china to make cheap players. So unlike the DVD, this time around we wont be seeing cheap DVD players. I still remember that it was some Chinese brand (apex?) which broke the $100 barrier for DVD-players and became the largest selling dvd player right behind Sony. With tighter licensing restrictions, thats not going to happen this time around with Blu-ray payers

If your statement is true, and I'm going to assume it is, this means we also won't see a huge blu-ray adoption. The VHS to DVD format adoption is easily the fastest I've ever seen. Faster than LPs to tape, faster than tape to CD. in fact, I remember buying my first CD player in about 1989. CDs had been mainstream since what, 82, but seven years later a good player was still $300? It took a long time for the CD to completely take over the market, mostly because the players were expensive.

If the studios are smart, and I think they are, the prices of blu-ray players will only be high for the next 6 months or so. After that, the studios will subsidize their production. The only way people are going to buy ANOTHER new copy of that old movie they love is if the player is cheap. The best way for the studios to make money is to get those players in the hands of the end users.

Re:Look how quickly I adjust too

[letxa2000]

Look how quickly I adjust too by not buying the now overpriced gear...

Exactly. I'll adjust by using my normal $70 DVD player, probably for years to come.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for HD-DVD

[DesScorp]

Though declared "Dead", the body is still warm. And you'd think that HD-DVD would be the natural successor to the DVD drives for PC's because they share the same filesystem, and HD-DVD drives are completely backwards compatible with CD and DVD formats. While Blu-Ray players can be made compatible with those formats, not all players are. At least some BR players on the market couldn't read standard CD's, for instance. Since Microsoft's Xbox 360 uses an HD-DVD drive, you might be able to get them to push the standard for PC drives.

Re:Look how quickly I adjust too

[feepness]

The joke being that almost all the Blu-ray players on the market right now are obsolete. Were all your DVD players obsolete when component video came out? What about when Surround Sound came out? Why does having an extra feature that is not required to watch the original movie make a player obsolete? How about DVD+/-R?

This isn't rocket science. You move the player to the bedroom or the kid's playroom or you give it to your Mom and you get a new one if you want the features so bad. If you don't, well then your player isn't obsolete, is it?.

I still have and use a DVD player I got in 1999. It still works perfectly fine.

It is attitudes like this that contribute to our garbage ridden throwaway society.

Yes, at the time WHV threw its weight behind Blu-ray, Blu-ray was both more expensive than HD DVD, and less powerful (capacity excepting.) So at the time, it was less powerful (except where it wasn't) and more expensive (because it wasn't being dumped below cost). Of course, BluRay had the greater capacity to improve, whereas a 3-layer HD-DVD was a tech demo pipe dream.

You went for the format that's out of most people's price range, that's unlikely to be in people's price range for a while, and which had less features (and thus less clear advantages over DVD) than HD DVD. In practice, I suspect you've doomed HD media to a niche, while the vast majority stick with DVD for movies they want to own, and PPV and the various download services for content they want to see in HD. You keep telling yourself that. The price jump is a minor glitch given that there is no longer a war going on and they aren't dumping them below cost. Do you think HD-DVD player prices would have stayed low if BluRay had thrown in the towel? They would have risen more. By Christmas they will be down to $200. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Why is it the same people who were convinced that HD-DVD was going to take off now suddenly think that download media is going to be the thing?

I still find the decision incomprehensible. The capacity of human beings for engaging in self-deception never ceases to amaze me.

Average != lowest

[HalAtWork]

Now that blu-ray is the standard, more companies are willing to take a gamble and produce expensive luxury models. The average price will be higher even though the same lower-cost models are available at the same price. It's just that now more companies are putting weight on high-end options as well as offering affordable options. Prior to this point in the market, the focus was on adoption. Now it's on adoption as well as catering to those who are ready to invest heavily in the platform.

Re:Great- no more format war!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha! Yeah, right... Name one consumer electronics product that was popular and DIDN'T result in a race to the bottom-of-the-barrel, shitty, but ultra cheap line of Walmart specials.

Re:Look how quickly I adjust too

[Thaelon]

So, not only do you get screwed into double dipping on the hardware, they also screw you into double dipping on the software.

Double dipping?

Last I checked some movie studios were approximately decadipping at this point:

1. The original movie on VHS
2. The original movie on Laserdisc
3. The director's cut on VHS
4. The original movie on DVD
5. The director's cut on DVD
6. The digitally remastered version DVD
7. The super magic ultra awesome edition DVD (Aliens quadrilogy, I'm looking at you)
8. The blu-ray version
9. The director's super, mega, ultra freaking awesome blu-ray edition
10. The director's super, mega, ultra freaking awesome blu-ray edition with 2.0 features

And let's not forget some awesome features of DVDs and probably blu-ray as well. How about "user-prohibited actions"?

Yay, I'm forced to watch previews on a movie I paid for. Or I can't skip the FBI warning. Or I can't skip the stupid menu animations.

The alternative is to download a DVD rip DRM unencumbered, no FBI warning, no forced previews - hell, no previews. No user prohibited actions. I could store it easily on any media I choose - such as carry it to a friend's house on a thumb drive. I could fast forward and rewind more easily than a DVD. I could store it on a big fat network drive with thousands of others. I could stream it anywhere I have the bandwidth to watch it. It's easily transferred from media to media - as fast as you can copy files.

Tell me again why I should buy DVD or blu-ray discs? They couldn't compete even if they were free.

Looks bogus to me.

[guidryp]

I looked at the graph, it looks like a whole lot of nothing. Minor retail fluctuations with a blip up after the holidays. I would expect that of most products.

I thought I would check one of the high marks they are using as Evidence:

I looked at the Sharp BDHP20U listed as having jumped to $440. I checked amazon where it is show a LIST PRICE of $399 and selling price of $350. Only $90 different? Maybe Amazon is an outlier? Dell $329, Every retailer I have heard of was under $400.

The only number higher were listing of something called "storefront"? with a price of $100 more than list??

Anyway even if the graph was correct, it looks like a whole lot of nothing, but to top it, the data itself seems suspect. Have a look for yourself.

Bottom line nothing to see here. Just another attempt to stir up the dead war for TG page hits.

Re:"anti-PS3 crowd"

[Frantix]

I'm not sure what you're implying by the "anti-PS3 crowd"? That only die-hard PS3 fans are technically savvy enough to want an HD player? Or is it just a troll remark? The market is made up of a lot of different people on ALL sides of the console front; some for gaming, some for the overall capabilities of a console and, with the war being over, a BD player first and a game console second.

Most of my time is still playing PC games but I also have an Xbox and have no interest in a PS3 even for the BluRay. I have a lot of interest in BluRay but not through a PS3 or the "new" pricing scheme that they've seemed to now drop on consumers for stand-alone players. I'll bid my time and hopefully Microsoft releases a BD player at some point in the upcoming months as has been the rumor.

Re:Look how quickly I adjust too

[mqduck]

2001 and A Clockwork Orange in HD (would buy Eyes Wide Shut for the nudie bits, but wife objects) No Eyes Wide Shut, but your wife doesn't mind a movie where a guy cuts through a womans clothes and rapes her?

Re:Look how quickly I adjust too

[phoomp]

Seems to me a little suspect that the only device fully compatible with Sony's spec is Sony's device.