Roleplayers Seek Removal of Nerf Gun Ban

An anonymous reader writes "LARP fans at Bowling Green State University may have to contend with a crippled game of Humans vs. Zombies after the University banned Nerf guns on campus. In the live-action game, players are either humans or zombies. The goal of the game is to change all the humans into zombies, or for the humans to evade capture by zombies for a certain amount of time. To defend themselves against zombies, humans may use Nerf guns. Players (most likely the human ones) are petitioning the University to lift the ban. The game had troubles back in 2006, when participating students were arrested. That issue has since been cleared up."

Comments

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

We're banning nerf guns now? Why?

What are we now, "Land of the fee, home of the scared?"

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

pretty sure that nerf guns don't kill people. And you can argue all you want about people being the ones who kill people.. a person without a weapon is far less likely to splatter brains everywhere within seconds of deciding to hurt someone.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

...a person without a weapon is far less likely to splatter brains everywhere within seconds of deciding to hurt someone.

What's a weapon? You can splatter someone's brains everywhere in seconds with almost anything.

Re:Why?

[modecx]

I tell you, some people are crazy, fun-sucking assholes. My cousin'(s) mother wouldn't ever let anything capable of launching a projectile anywhere near her children. I tried to play some NERF wars with him back when he was about 10 and my family got chewed out because she's some kind of anti gun nazi, you know because a 9mm Glock and a tube that launches foam spheres are apparently really very much alike. Now, he's a sad shell of an uncreative, pasty, frumpy and lethargic ~16.5 year old, and currently his chances of ever even being touched by an unrelated female are somewhat worse than the average /.er's chance of scoring with something bi-pedal.

Seriously, Stephen King's Carrie was allowed more opportunities for fun. If fanatically obsessive parents could be called "helicopter parents", she's the AH-64 gunship parent. Someone similar to her was undoubtedly responsible for this anti-nerf hullabaloo. If the quantity of pirates in the world is inversely related to global warming, I contend that this is possible: the number of school shootings could be proportional to the quantity of obsessive and dominating parents.

Re:Why?

[MrNaz]

You've obviously never dropped a baseball bat from an aircraft. I did. Oops.

Re:Why?

[jtev]

Consider that most universities consider themselves to be the social, as well as educational center of their students lives. Consider that many universities have roleplaying groups. Consider that many students are captive in the university, due to freshman housing requirements or visa requirements. Consider that this is a state school, paid for by public moneys. All of a sudden this gets to be a little less cut and dried. We're talking about groups of consenting adults having a little bit of fun and blowing off some steam, and even if it is a little odd, it's the sort of thing university students do, and given earlier posts in this article, it's probably one of the safer activities one can do on campus.

Re:Why?

[alexgieg]

Even with your angry 6 year old who somehow managed to unlock his dad's (otherwise perfectly safe) gun cabinet and stick a clip into a pistol.

Children play with whatever is new and strange. The safest thing a gun-carrying father of a 6 year old can do is thus to make it absolutely sure said gun isn't something new and strange. From the very moment his child is able to not go around swallowing small objects, he should sit down with him and start presenting him the gun. Unmount it, clean it, teach the child to do both things, teach him to shot cans, show him what happens to a chicken when it's shot (a good opportunity to teach the children what is that "death" thing she had heard about, plus why she shouldn't play with her food), and so on and so forth. This way, even if it happens that the child comes into contact with a weapon unsupervised, she will know how to behave and, most important, to never, ever, point it to another person or animal, no matter what.

Preventing a child from doing harm by blocking his access to something dangerous surely works. But it's just addressing the symptoms, not the actual problem. What is it? Simply put, the lack of "responsibility development" in the child. Some 150 years ago a 13 years old managed to be more mature than the typical 20 years old of today. The reason for that is that modern day parents have the strongly misplaced desire of shielding their children from maturity, i.e., of shielding them from the "nasty things" in the world, rather than allowing and providing for their growth at their actual potential.

Stop holding them back, start pushing them towards what they can achieve, and these accidents simply won't happen. Or, rather, if they do, they'll be actual accidents, and not the necessary outcome of keeping children clueless just for the sake of it.

Re:Why?

[Himring]

News report:
A convenient store clerk was killed late yesterday during an armed robbery. The assailants were using nerf bats. The slaying took approximately 9 hours....

Re:Why?

[bcattwoo]

they don't accidentally kill innocent bystanders blocks away. ... i run at him with a knife, you jump in the way and get stabbed and die. That's a hell of a jump.

Re:Why?

[oyenstikker]

Parent teaches 6 year old child about guns and gun safety. 6 year old shoots somebody. Parent is charged.

Parent hides gun in the house and tells 6 year old child nothing about it. 6 year old shoots somebody. Parent is not charged.

There is something very wrong here. Maybe we shouldn't teach our children anything, just put them in a padded room for 18 years. Then nothing can be blamed on us.

Re:Why?

[aunticrist]

Please. I was shown how to clean, take apart, reassemble, load and fire rifles and other firearms when I was seven. My family never owned a gun locker and I knew where both the firearms and the ammo were growing up. I was also taught gun safety and basic common sense. All of this, and somehow i managed not to go out and shoot someone at a young age. Imagine that.

Re:Why?

[Torvaun]

I'm not that good at bow hunting. Or would you have me get rid of the sticks with razor sharp broadheads on the end too?

How about people with swords? This is a geek site, there's probably a bunch of us. Those are dangerous weapons too. Luckily, your kid is probably only going to kill himself mishandling those.

A gun does not have to be a danger to people around it, it just needs to be respected as much as we teach kids to respect cars by looking both ways. If you have guns, teach your kids about them, show them how to use them safely, and store them securely (trigger locks, gun safes, ammo and gun kept in separate locations). Just remember that education is an important part of that, because it's entirely possible for the kid to run into guns somewhere else, and you don't want that to be the first time.

Re:Why?

[RonTheHurler]

Hear hear!

I remember vividly when I was 5 years old and my parents took me out and taught me to shoot a pistol. It scared the crap out of me! But, I learned to do it and for my whole life (and of my siblings) there have been loaded guns in nightstand drawers and other places. We all knew where they were. We also knew WHAT they were.

Ok, so what. Well, when I was about 8 years old, playing (unsupervised) at a friend's house, he snuck into his parent's room and brought out a handgun for us to play with. I could tell he didn't even know how to hold it. I forget the exact details of what happened next, but I convinced him to put it away and we left the house until a grown-up came home. I'm pretty sure I averted a probable catastrophe that day - all because my parents had taught me how to shoot.

Put away your gut reactions and look at the statistics. Boats are more likely to kill your kids than handguns are. Swimming pools are MUCH more likely to kill a neighborhood kid than a loaded, unlocked handgun in the same house. You wouldn't have a pool in the backyard and not teach your kids how to swim, would you?

I forget the quote- something about freedom and limiting the freedoms of all of us based on the failings of the least of us. It's a good quote if someone can find it.

And, just in case you're wondering, I do not own any handguns or other guns. My kids DO play with toy guns (as do I, with the kids).
Why don't I own a (real) gun? Because I don't like cleaning them mostly. I'd have one if I had a friend who enjoyed target shooting, but I don't (at least not in this state).

But I do LIKE it that some of my neighbors have handguns in their houses, for the same reason that lo-jack works to reduce all the car thefts in a city. If thieves don't know which house has it, they have to assume there's a risk that any house could have it, and that's a significant deterrent. Again with the statistics, look at the violent crime rates in states with tight gun controls, vs. those with liberal gun ownership. No significant difference.

Buy a toy gun for your kids at http://www.backyardartillery.com/
Or get a catapult at http://www.catapultkits.com/
And teach them the science of ballistic motion while you're at it.
We need more people with an understanding of basic physics.

Re:Why?

[lostokie]

Gun control only keeps guns out of the "right hands". "Wrong hands" will find access to guns, regardless of the law.

Re:Why?

[bkr1_2k]

That's a ridiculous reach. Children have been shooting guns since there have been guns. They've been responsible for using them to get food, protect their family/land/what have you, and we as a society have gotten along just fine until the last 40 years or so. That's what, 400 years of "hand-held" guns and 40-50 years (being generous here) of a "problem" with accidents? Yeah, you can say there were accidents before, we just don't know about them. That's most likely true, but accidents happen with adults too.

To say that it's obscene to teach a child about guns, or let them fire them, is a real stretch though. Guns serve a purpose. Perhaps that purpose has eroded into something less than it once was, but it's still there at least in part. Many people still use guns to get their food. Some people legitimately use them for safety, not from other people, but from large animals. (If you've ever been to Alaska, you'll know most of the population there carry weapons for scaring off bears etc.)

I'm not a big gun proponent, I gave all of mine to my brother a few years after my first child was born because I simply wasn't shooting them enough to bother keeping them and her mom didn't want them around her. Not a big issue to me, but I still have access to every one of my weapons should I ever feel the need.

I grew up shooting guns. The first time I remember shooting, I was 5 years old and the gun was longer than I was tall. It was a 22 caliber rifle used for hunting rabbits and small game to have food. We're not all lucky enough to have enough money to buy all our food.

What would be obscene would be allowing your children to go hungry because you never taught them how to take care of themselves. What would be obscene is pretending that guns don't exist and being irresponsible enough not to teach your children about how to treat guns with respect and safety.

Re:Why?

[Chatsubo]

"The safest thing a gun-carrying father of a 6 year old can do is thus to make it absolutely sure said gun isn't something new and strange."

Amen. As kids we got sat down and explained exactly what the two 9mm pistols in the house were, what it did, how to handle ammo, how to load it, how to check that the chamber IS empty, and how not to. They were hardly ever locked up, and I could easily get to one were my parents not home. Much like any child. (Kids know how locks work and where the keys are anyway). But it didn't intrigue me, because now I knew exactly what it was, I'd held it, unlocked it, etc. So, no more mystery, it was just a pistol, big deal.

Much like how I was taught to deal with alcohol. It was never "kept" from me and my brother, and we were allowed to drink small amounts of alcohol early on and more as we got older. When university hit, we weren't out binging, because it had been discovered, been done, nothing new to see here, move along..... From that perspective, students who had finally "slipped the bonds" and were out partying hard, looked pretty silly.

Re:Why?

[bkr1_2k]

I live in the United States. I live perfectly without guns because I have a good education, a good job, and I was given opportunities and made decisions that allow me to live without guns. My brother, on the other hand, still hunts for food because he dropped out of high school and never really got an education and works very hard for very little money. Sure, he can afford food, but it's not as good as the food he gets hunting, and doesn't last as long (a very small 60 pound dressed dear can feed a family for a long time on the cost of 1 bullet compared to buying meat every week) and if he buys his food he can't buy other things, like new shoes for his children or books to help them get an education that allows them a better life than he's providing for them now.

It's not all about "you have enough money for food if you have enough money for bullets", it's about making choices on how to spend your money. He reloads his bullets (actually usually shotgun shells) so the cost is almost zero compared to what he gains from being able to hunt for his food. Look at your grocery bill sometime and figure out how much you spend on meat every month. My brother can feed his family meat every day for 6 months for about 15 cents in bullets and another $50 in his gas and time spent hunting with his sons. I'm guessing you can't do that. Spending his money on things other than meat also allows his family to get a more balanced diet of meat and vegetables and not eat "popcorn for dinner" like he had to do for several years so his children could eat real food.

Yes, guns are always dangerous; that was the point of my post. Pretending they're not dangerous or "nonexistent" is far more dangerous to children than teaching them about the real dangers. Just because we don't all need them, however doesn't mean they're not needed, no matter how much you yell about it.

Stupid ban

[ameyer17]

So they're using nerf guns. What's the big deal. Even if an innocent bystander gets caught in the crossfire, no big deal. Shouldn't they have better things to do?

Re:Stupid ban

[M. Baranczak]

Nerf guns don't kill people; hordes of undead flesh-eating zombies do.

OK, your turn.

Re:Stupid ban

[calebt3]

Nerf guns don't kill people; hordes of undead flesh-eating zombies do.

+4, Informative That is sooo wrong...

Re:Stupid ban

[dlanod]

Typical roleplaying games... always wanting to Nerf undead.

Re:Stupid ban

[Fireshadow]

Two.

1)When nerf guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have nerf guns.
2)I've seen a picture of a rack of shotguns with the caption "The damn zombies aren't going to kill themselves."

Good night!

Re:Stupid ban

[DKlineburg]

So, let's recap :

The undead were nerfed by the GM's,
Innocent bystanders submitted a report of greifing to the game server (University),
The humans in turn are nerfed by the game server,
Thus causing the humans to be ganked by the undead.

Yep, sounds like typical PVP role-playing MMIRL.

Re:Stupid ban

[Minwee]

Nerf guns don't kill people; hordes of undead flesh-eating zombies do.

That is sooo wrong...

Well, what do _you_ think that hordes of undead flesh-eating zombies do? Save you 15% on your insurance?

The wussification of a people is complete....

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

...when they're afraid of people getting hurt with a FREAKING *NERF* GUN!

Re:The wussification of a people is complete....

[StarvingSE]

Can you even Nerf a Nerf gun????

*brain asplodes*

Re:The wussification of a people is complete....

[Scrameustache]

...when they're afraid of people getting hurt with a FREAKING *NERF* GUN! My little cousin got a nerf bow at a birthday, first thing his big brother did when he got his hands on it was to stick a pointy toothpick in the foam arrow and to shoot at balloons next to the parents chatting in a corner.
My cousin can make ANYTHING a hazard. It's a gift (from the devil).

But this isn't about that, this is about appearances: Can't have people playing guns on a university campus! Think of the children!

Re:The wussification of a people is complete....

[Dun Malg]

No, they aren't afraid of somebody getting hurt [directly] by a Nerf gun. They're concerned about the consequences when somebody sees a bunch of people running around carrying weapons - and calls 911. Or decides to tackle the 'weapon wielder'. Or raises a vigilante posse to go after the 'weapon wielder'. Etc... Etc... seriously, have you never seen a nerf gun? No one would EVER mistake one of those oversized cartoon-color toys for any sort of real weapon. This is done on purpose. They're nerf guns, fer cripes sake!

Re:Urban Dead cosplaying?

[compro01]

hey, they're up and running around. they're doing their part to fight the looming obesity crisis, in addition to training to combat the looming undead crisis. =D

Nerf Guns

[zippthorne]

Wouldn't roleplayers support a ban on nerfing guns?

There're too many double negatives in that headline.

Re:Title revision suggestion:

[bennomatic]

no... University Students Seek Mooooore Braiiiiins!

Better than Uzi Water Guns

[Nova Express]

A friend of mine had one of these in college. We were running around zapping each other in a restaurant parking lot when a cop pulled up, lights flashing, and informed my friend he was about two second away from being shot before the cop realized it was a water gun. He was Not Amused.

Nerf should be fine as long as it's obvious that it IS a Nerf weapon. If not, or if it's taking place at night. be sure you play in a place where everyone knows you're in a game, or be prepared for some Very Bad Consequences if you're not careful.

Re:Better than Uzi Water Guns

[Beer_Smurf]

If you look at the pics from the original articles, they are brightly colored, oddly shaped and very obviously toys.

Re:Better than Uzi Water Guns

[Original Replica]

when a cop pulled up, lights flashing, and informed my friend he was about two second away from being shot before the cop realized it was a water gun.

That's just a sign that cops are trigger happy. He should have been about two seconds away from a cop yelling "This is the Police! Drop Your Weapon!". Seriously, when the biggest danger of using a toy isn't the toy itself but the possibility of being shot by the cops, is it the toy that is a danger or the cops?

Re:Better than Uzi Water Guns

[MrNaz]

Perhaps this will interest you:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w10.html
It kind of highlights what you say nicely.

I have a funny story about a similar Nerf game...

[AcidPenguin9873]

called Assassin that some frats and/or dorms play at UIUC. A guy locked himself in his room to avoid an assassin, who then camped right outside his door, ready to strike the instant he opened the door. Supposedly, the guy really had to do #2, but rather than open the door and lose, he crapped out his 2nd floor window.

Do you feel lucky?

[coren2000]

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire 10 nerf darts or only nine?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a Nerf Dart Tag Magstrike the most powerful nerfgun in the world, and would tickle your nose with a perfect shot, you've got to ask yourself a question:

Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/default.cfm?page=viewproduct&product_id=17890

Re:Why would anyone ban nerf guns?

[M. Baranczak]

Anybody remember Silly String? Do they even still make that stuff?

A few years ago (can't remember when exactly) some dumb kid in Boston shot at another dumb kid with Silly String. The kid with Silly String all over him then took out a real gun, and shot the first kid dead. Mayor Menino's response to this was a proposal to ban Silly String within city limits.

This isn't exactly the same situation, but the political logic seems strangely reminiscent.

I'm playing right now, and HvZ is awesome

[wal9001]

Penn State's spring semester game is just getting underway (stealth zombies period ends at noon tomorrow), and it's fucking awesome, just like last semester's was. Yes, they let us use nerf guns, and nobody's been injured except for one guy who broke his foot while falling down some stairs last game. That's why we make people sign waivers.

It's the best game ever. Hope they get the issues cleared up, as nerf guns and the associated modifications (yeah, I'm an engineering student) are a really fun aspect of it. If your college doesn't play, go get it started. I recommend talking it over w/ the campus cops first though, just to make sure you won't have problems like this.

I know why they're banned

[tooler]

The only explanation is that campus administrators are zombies. The cheating bastards want to make sure nothing stops them from eating more brains.

Re:parents complaining?

[Charcharodon]

Didn't you hear? Adulthood has been moved up to 41.

Re:Title revision suggestion:

[laejoh]

Uh, try the physics lab next door.

Sigh.....

[IHC Navistar]

If I was the Judge that had to deal with these citations, I would give each and every issuing officer a good 'ol fashioned judicial beat-down.

Nerf guns are just like firearms and just as dangerous:

Nerf Guns:

Brightly colorful.
Use compressed air.
Don't resemble, even remotely, real guns.
Shoot big yellow sponges.
Sponge "bullets" bounce off of their target and usually make the target laugh.
Make funny noises when fired.
The target either never falls down, or gets right back up immediately, provided he or she didn't fall of a cliff.
Can be bought at any Toy's 'R' Us by a 10 year old.
Cost as cheap as $10.

Real guns:

Black or chrome plated.
Use smokeless powder.
Resemble reals guns because they are real guns.
Shoot lead or copper-jacketed bullets.
Lead bullets penetrate the target and usually make the target scream in pain.
Makes a loud bang when fired.
The person who was shot doesn't usually get up.
Can only be bought by someone who is 21 or older at licensed dealerships, plus State and Federal background checks.
Usually cost between $500-$2999 (hardly milk money)

So, yeah, I can understand how the police became easily confused between the two. Someone should give Barney Fife and his fellow deputies a public commendation for protecting safe fun-loving people from themselves.

I was looking through my college's regulations to see if they had rules prohibiting Nerf Guns and came across the following:

"Weapons and Explosives
1. Possession, use, or sale of any incendiary, explosive, firearm, or destructive device is not permitted. At no time will live ammunition of any type be permitted in or on university premises.
2. Any weapon including, but not limited to guns (i.e., air soft guns, BB/pellet guns, paintball guns, potato guns, pistols, revolvers, firearms, etc.), knives, and any items that are a reasonable facsimile of such weapons are prohibited.
3. Ammunition or explosives (including fireworks) of any kind are prohibited.
4. Failure to report to campus security and/or residence hall personnel the presence of an unlawful weapon, explosive or incendiary device, when the presence of such weapon or device is known or reasonably suspected is a violation of the rules and regulations of the University.
5. Reporting the false presence of an unlawful weapon, explosive or incendiary device with the intent to mislead or deceive is prohibited."

It doesn't list Nerf guns, but states that guns "that are a "resonable facsimile of such weapons are prohibited". This allows anybody with half a brain to successfully argue that Nerf guns are not a "resonable facsimile".

Interestingly enough, the preceeding section is of the following:

"Projectiles
1. Throwing, dropping, or projecting objects from any residence structure, including but not limited to self, keys, bodily fluids, and trash is strictly prohibited. In addition, throwing objects or playing sports in community courtyards is not permitted without permission from the Community Director of that area. Individuals and/or residential communities may be held financially responsible for repairing damages, painting costs, and general maintenance related to projectiles."

So, technically, that means it is against the rules to play flag football, catch, pickle, or Frisbee without getting permission. Man, we didn't even have to ask the Yard Duty for permission to do these things in Elementary school. I guess I should pack up my lawn darts.

Help me out here

[Techman83]

While in the meeting, the group was told the game was in danger of being canceled due to the number of calls the University received last semester from concerned parents. Can I pose a question, now in Australia University mean mostly people who have finished Secondary School and are generally 18 and over. Why the hell are parents calling and complaining, aren't we supposed to be merging into an adult and independent life at this point in time???

So is my thinking wrong?? Either way it sounds like a damn fun game and I sometimes feel cheated by not going to Uni (Traineeship, experience and courses make up my resume, uni would have been a waste as far as employability goes, but it sounds like a shit load of fun!)

Re:Why would anyone ban nerf guns?

[ElBeano]

"If you're designing a government with the fundamental idea that all governments are corrupt, then you've failed before you've even begun."

Ok.... now give me an example of any government in the history of the world that wasn't corrupt.

Re:Why would anyone ban nerf guns?

[ajcham]

If you're designing a government with the fundamental idea that all governments are corrupt, then you've failed before you've even begun.

I'll admit my knowledge of US history is sparse, but I suspect the idea wasn't that all government's are corrupt, rather all governments are corruptible.

Re:Title revision suggestion:

[redxxx]

I'm shocked, shocked, to hear it implied that there are LARPers who aren't getting any.

What??? You talking about???

[PortHaven]

Responsibility or something?

Raising a child to be responsible?

You stupid or something...??? Don't you know you're supposed to let your TV raise your child. So you can blame everything bad that your child does on some TV show, video game, or anything else you can think of - enabling you to be sue happy and blame someone else for the fact the failure to teach responsibility to your child.

What you're advocating will make your child safer, smarter, and more responsible. Leaving you with no one to sue but yourself.

Responsibility = bad...puts lawyers out of business!

Re:What??? You talking about???

[alexgieg]

Have you ever thought about the reason why USA is the country with more killings compared to ALL the other countries in the world? Easy answer...guns are so common and so easy to retrieve!

Wrong, and wrong. I live in Brazil, and while we have roughly half the population of USA, we have twice the number of deaths by firearms, actually nearing the numbers you see on news about Iraq, and that without an actual war going on. And do you know what's the most interesting thing about this? It's that, here, gun ownership is outlawed exactly in the way you think it should be on USA:

Guns should be owned only by police and military forces and in very special cases by people who really need em, that have a very well certified ability to use em, with certified mental stability tests and that are risking their life everyday (to justify the owning of a gun).

So, why do you think we have that much deaths by firearms here? If you don't mind, I'll answer: it's because that old adage, that when guns are outlawed only the outlaws have guns, is literally true. This is exactly what happens here. Every year Brazilian criminals become more and more violent. And why? Because they know that no matter who they target, that person will be an unarmed, easy prey. That any house they enter will be an unarmed, easy to rob house. That any person they kidnap, or any woman they rape, will be an unarmed, hopeless victim.

As for myself, I walk around armed with the deadliest small army knife I managed to find. Thanks God knives still aren't forbidden, and thus I have some small prospect of getting away alive if (when) attacked by a criminal intent on killing me no matter what. But, alas, our Congress is already looking into ways to forbid knife-carrying too. Once that law is approved I guess I'll have to start walking around with a telescopic baton. Or, once those are forbidden, a wood stick...

So, do you want to know what USA will become one guns are outlawed? Come see for yourself. And take care with your luggage.

Re:Why would anyone ban nerf guns?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

what a charming, naive notion that a bunch of whack jobs with pop-guns would be able to stand up against the might of the best funded military in the world :)

It's worked for the Iraqis.