Upgrade Trick Still Present In Vista SP1

Chris Blanc writes "The new Service Pack 1 version of Windows Vista allows end users to purchase the 'upgrade edition' and install it on any PC — with no need to purchase the more expensive 'full edition.' The same behavior was present when Vista was originally released, but the fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista more appealing to sophisticated buyers."

Comments

Alternatively

[adpsimpson]

I hear Ubuntu allows the full installation on any machine too...

Yeah, ok, I'll accept my -1, Troll.

Re:Alternatively

[Shakrai]

Yeah, ok, I'll accept my -1, Troll.

I wouldn't worry about that.

See, you've used the time honored Slashdot tradition of daring the moderators to mod you down. Such statements display a remarkable understanding of /. politics and show that you aren't afraid to go against the group. I'm hard pressed to think of a better way to ensure that your comment winds up with postive moderation -- short of a 4 digit UID, large cash contributions or being a former actor from Star Trek: The Next Generation ;)

Statements like "don't worry, I've got karma to burn" or "how long until I get modded down?" seem to be particularly effective ;)

Sophisticated Buyers

[Enderandrew]

You're suggesting that sophisticated buyers are buying Vista.

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[k3vlar]

Ignorance and blatant disregard for how something works seems to be what the internet is for in todays society.

Yes, that is what the internet is for.

On a related note, I've used Vista, extensively, and don't like it. I don't bash it at every opportunity, but I do discourage its use for the following reasons

• - UAC is still the most aggravating privilege prompt I've used
• - Vista, compared with Ubuntu or OS X, runs extremely slowly
• - Control Panel, and other OS dialogs have been obfuscated and made extremely convoluted for no apparent reason
• - (Subjective) I dislike the Aero user interface

So there are three valid, and one personal reason that I prefer to use Ubuntu and OS X for my computing needs.

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[sumdumass]

People constantly bashed on the Yugo and Chevrolet's Vega. It wasn't that they didn't go down the road perfectly for some people. It wasn't that they suited some people's need just fine, it was that they were unsafe and got people killed. Ironically, a relatively small amount of people like that but it happened.

Hence you ask why do people dump on vista when it works just fine for what you do. And the answer is because it has metaphorically killed others in ways that it shouldn't have. Why? Because they used their computers in perfectly legit ways that you don't seem to do.

It might have something to do with the Vista capable logo too. Where a computer was presented as having the ability to sufficiently run vista but in reality lacks a lot of what is neccesary. However, the people I know, have systems that meet the Vista specs well above the minimum and still have issues.

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[pmbasehore]

Actually, I have used Vista--I have Home Premium running on one of my desktops. Before I say I don't like it, allow me to explain how I am educated enough to give an opinion on the subject.

If you bash vista it's because you haven't used it,
I believe I have shown that I do, indeed, use an OEM Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium on my Acer Aspire T180.

you're a slow slow learner
What does this have to do with anything? If I was a slow learner, I would complain about many pieces of software, not just Vista/Microsoft products.

or you've used it but hate microsoft so much that you didn't actually give it a chance.
This is really the only bit of your argument that could theoretically apply to me--so allow me to refute that. I see many improvements in Vista over XP and 2000. I will never deny that Vista is an improvement in some areas. My problem lies in two places:
1) The OS has been out for a year now and there are still major driver and software compatibility issues. An example: My ATI HD2600 video card driver was technically "supported" by Vista, but I had so many problems with the driver (including BSODs, screen lockups, and framerates in the single-digits) that I had to get an nVidia card. And before you say the problem was with my hardware, the card worked perfectly on my Linux installation on the same box.
2) It took Microsoft engineers 5 years to develop Vista? That is around twice their normal average development time of 2-3 years! What major improvements have we seen? The start menu was redesigned, UAC (need I say more), the GUI takes up a lot more memory and hard drive space for not much return in looks, and the "Explorer" file manager has copied so much from Apple's "Finder" that I expect to have a mouse with only one button!

Vista has improved, yes...but the improvements are not complex enough or adequate enough to warrant twice the development cycle on the same product. I am a Linux user. I am a Windows user. I am also a Mac user. Just because I use a certain operating system or software doesn't mean I love it and hate all others. If you don't like what people say about Vista, get over it. Use what software you want to use and let us do the same.

In the meantime, how about we get back to some decent conversation about the upgrade trick!

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[Rary]

...though it is a resource pig. I'm using over a gig of ram right now just for Outlook, a few putty sessions, Pidgin and Firefox.

No it's not. It's actually making better use of your RAM.

In my opinion, Vista is only for sophisticated users. Sophisticated users (developers, for example) tend to already go for high end systems, and are willing (and able) to learn new stuff. Ordinary users are resistant to change. They don't want to learn a new way of doing things, and switching to Vista would force them to do that (as would switching to Linux or OSX). There are generally (though not always) pretty good reasons for Vista changing the way these things are done (ie. additional functionality), but those who refuse to learn something new should just stick with what they know.

All that said, after having used it for two months I really don't see any compelling new feature or reason to upgrade from XP...

I'm inclined to agree. If you're happy with XP, stick with it. But if you're out looking for a new computer, unlike most Slashdotters (who have likely never even tried Vista), I'd happily recommend getting one with Vista -- as long as the person I'm recommending it to is willing to put in the effort to learn something new.

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[God of Lemmings]

People constantly bashed on the Yugo and Chevrolet's Vega. It wasn't that they didn't go down the road perfectly for some people. It wasn't that they suited some people's need just fine, it was that they were unsafe and got people killed. Its true! Vista killed my dog!

Re:Sophisticated Buyers

[binaryspiral]

OK I'm sorry but I am gonna call bullshit on that. Right now this very second I am running 3 putty windows, firefox (with 2 tabs open), and I am using 560 mb of ram. I am wondering if Vista is really using that much more RAM than XP or is it that Vista made it so easy to get that information (the side bar, and the Task Manager in Vista tells you the % of Ram used unlike XP) and therefore more noticeable.

No, he's pretty much accurate. But it's no big secret Vista was rewritten to cache more data in ram and so appears to be using more memory. I stopped looking at memory usage along time ago... when I'm on a machine that is paging a lot, then it's time to pay attention.

On Vista, though, you do get an easy to read resource monitor that will give you much more information about the resources you're using. I like the memory section that gives you percentage of physical memory in use and the number of hard faults per second.

You can drill down for more detail, but those two items are pretty much all I need for most performance investigations.

Ahhh upgrade...

[SatanicPuppy]

I have a full version of Windows 95 lying around, and it has saved me quite a penny over the years.

It's definitely a scam; there is no reason why the "upgrade" should cost less, since it is identical to the full version and you can "upgrade" using an original disk that wasn't used to install the OS that's currently on the machine.

Re:Or

[moderatorrater]

Or maybe they just don't think it's worth the time and effort to block the people who can exploit the hole. After all, if someone's willing to exploit this hole, they're probably willing to pirate it some other way, so why not get the lesser amount and not spend precious development and qa time on a fix that could easily introduce more bugs?

Sophistication

[imstanny]

but the fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista more appealing to sophisticated buyers Dave: Excuse me, but the car you sold me is missing a gas tank. Salesman: Yes, we know. This is an upgradable model. We sell them to sophisticated buyers, hence the discount. Dave: So I can upgrade for free? Salesman: You're sophisticated, you'll figure it out. Dave: Well, what does it upgrade to? Salesman: All updated GPS maps can be downloaded directly from the dealer's website. Dave: Great! And what about the gas tank? Salesman: .................. Dave: Sir?!?!

Re:Sophistication

[luder]

Huh? The windows were missing, too?

The wonders of rationalization

[dlsmith]

the fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista more appealing to sophisticated buyers And I'm sure my neighbor leaves his front door unlocked because he wants me to come on in and make a sandwich.

Re:The wonders of rationalization

[Triv]

And I'm sure my neighbor leaves his front door unlocked because he wants me to come on in and make a sandwich.

That reminds me: You're outta mayo.

--Your Neighbor

Research shows...

[Starturtle]

...you're more inclined to buy something you don't want if you think you're getting a deal or getting away with something.

I guess it's better than a money-back rebate

[davidwr]

They could do what Symantec, McAfee, and a lot of other vendors do:

Antivirus: $50 - $30 rebate - $20 upgrade rebate

Only it would be

Vista Home Basic: $399 - $100 rebate - $100 upgrade rebate = your price $99

Dear Sucker, we mean Customer:
To get the upgrade rebate, fill in the form with the version and registration keys or "Registered to:" number for both the old and new copies of Windows. Limit one upgrade rebate per new copy. Limit one upgrade credit per old copy. Violators will be persecuted, we mean prosecuted, to the full extent of the law.
Sincerely,
Microsoft Customer Relations

That word does not mean what you think it does

[victim]

sophisticated adj - aware of or able to interpret complex issues

But you've used it in a sentence where you meant "willing to commit fraud to steal a license, but not willing to outright steal the license in its entirety". We don't have an english word that completely covers that, but "criminal" would do. I'd rewrite the last line to end...

"the back door as a way to make Vista more appealing to criminals."

Re:Sophistication?

[Pojut]

the most sophisticated users do not use MS products, preferring Linux or *BSD

Fuck you. My dad started teaching me about computers when I was only 5, and I have been huge into them ever since. The biggest, most important thing he taught me was this:

"Some people look down on others because of the operating system, brand of computer, or programming language of your choice. Whenever this happens, I want you to say "Fuck you" to them. Why? Because it doesn't matter what operating system, brand of computer, or programming language you use. As long as it enables you to get done what you need and want to get done, then use it. Whenever someone looks down on your for your technology choices, just picture them as a grumpy old man at a rich country club telling you that you arent good enough for their tee times. That's ok; you don't want to be around those kinds of people. Stay away from them."

I personally use a Linux/Windows combination...Linux for when I feel like messing around, Windows because it has far reaching hardware support and doesn't require nearly as much tweaking to get it how I want. Forgive me for blaspheming by not using Linux exclusively; just don't look down on people like me because we CHOOSE to use what works for us.

Still Illegal

[MoToMo]

I'm sure that the upgrade license agreement does not allow this, even if it is technically possible, so why would i spend money and still have an illegal copy of windows? If you're going to use an illegal copy, use one, if you're going to do the right thing and purchase a license, you might as well buy the right one.

Not just Vista

[Deadstick]

...the same capability exists in the upgrade versions of WinXP. If no Windows version is present on the hard disk, it asks you to briefly insert a disk of a qualifying version, including 95/98/Me, and it activates on the new disk's product key.

rj

Re:Not just Vista

[gEvil (beta)]

I think the point is that vista doesent even ask for previous media, it just installs no questions asked

That's nice of them, because I do have a fully licensed version of XP MCE that came with a machine I bought a few years ago. However, it was an HP, so I only have the crappy "Restore" discs that it let me make, which includes all the crapware they were paid to include. I'm fairly certain a Windows upgrade disc wouldn't accept these as "genuine" media that's eligible for upgrade, even though they should be. It's nice to know that I can install Vista onto a fresh HD without having to deal with first installing XP and all the extra crap, only to blow it away with the upgrade.

Re:I'll accept it in your stead

[lattyware]

If you can't manage to install Ubuntu, you deserve to run Windows. Seriously, it's so easy these days. Yeah, Those -1 trolls coming my way, I guess. But someone had to say it.

Re:What does the EULA permit?

[mbge7psh]

From the EULA:

13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from. Buying the upgrade version when your not entitled to it doesn't make you copy any more legal than a pirated copy.

Re:I'll accept it in your stead

[Dog-Cow]

The default install of Ubunto 10.whatever-it-is fails on VMware Fusion because Fusion presents the virtual disk as scsi and the front-end to Grub in the installer doesn't get it.

Re:I'll accept it in your stead

[Technician]

The default install of Ubunto 10.whatever-it-is fails on VMware Fusion because Fusion presents the virtual disk as scsi and the front-end to Grub in the installer doesn't get it.

For a non-standard install, download and install from the Alternate ISO. It fits nicely on a bootable DVD. You can skip Grub if needed. The live install CD was not intended for power users.