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Engineers Make Good Terrorists?
An anonymous reader writes "Engineers' focus and attention to details, along with their perceived lack of social skills, make them ideal targets to be recruited as terrorists, according to EETimes. Planning skills make engineers good 'field operatives' was written up by Raphael Perl, who heads the Action against Terrorism Unit of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. He offers that 'Engineers ideally make excellent strategic planners, and they make excellent field operatives. They think differently from how other people think.' That may sound like a stereotype, but Perl claims that 'because of those traits, terrorist groups actively recruit engineers.' He says that Al-Qaeda has widely acknowledged that a significant number of the group's top leadership had engineering backgrounds." This is the second time in just a few months that engineers have been likened to terrorists.
I hate these articles, but I can't decide if I hate them because they're intellectual snobbery (not only are we better than physicists, mathematicians, chemists, etc, we're also superlative terrorists!) or I hate them because they're anti-intellectual (Engineers are all smart and anti-social, therefore they're basically the unabomber).
Basically anyone who is methodical and knowledgeable would make a good X, where X is something that needs a methodical knowledgeable person. Engineers are required to be methodical and knowledgeable, so QED.
I don't know why they're so damn fixated on engineers though. Doesn't take an engineer to slam a plane into a building, and that's about the most successful piece of terrorism to date.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
That engineers plan things well should be no surprise. Engineers as a group design everything from bridges to sports stadiums to computer chips. They try to find a good balance of expected average need, overbuild and contingency performance, and cost.
That both the terrorists and those fighting the terrorists would want chemical, electrical, structural, and electronics engineers for their specific areas of expertise alone should come as no surprise. That they're also found to be good planners in general is only slightly less obvious.
The assumption that all engineers are similar to terrorists I think is a stretch.
FTA: "It's not only in Islamic countries that this is happening, he said. Al-Qaeda is increasingly recruiting scientists and engineers, especially non-Muslims, and is doing so worldwide, according to Perl." ... Al Qaeda is hardly the Soviet Union. As a non-Muslim, I would gain nothing by aiding Al Qaeda. Do they mean "non-Arab?" because that's not exactly the same thing.
Why does this sound like an attempt at a self-fulfilling prophecy? You take brilliant but socially awkward people, scare everyone else into thinking they're terrorists, they fall further and further into loneliness and despair because everyone's afraid of them, they get more and more resentful and anti-social, and presto! Instant terrorists!
"Of COURSE engineers are evil terrorists! If you keep hitting them with this stick and laughing at them, they'll hold it against you! See? I was right!"
Uhh, hello, isn't that a bit of a leap, going from the statement "Engineers make good terrorists" to the statement "They are being likened to terrorists".
It doesn't appear anyone is *likening* engineers, in general, to terrorists. What they are saying is if you can recruit engineerss to your terrorist cause, that can benefit your cause, because they are good at solving problems and planning. Well, is that not true of engineers? I don't think you can *be* an engineer if that isn't true.
I don't have any problem with the statement, "[Engineers] think differently than other people." I don't think that sounds like a stereotype. If other people thought like engineers, they'd likely *be* engineers. It takes a certain mindset, and a certain capacity to think logically and analytically to be an engineer. Unfortunately, this mindset doesn't necessarily inherently exclude any thought patterns which lead someone to become a terrorist in the first place. (After all, one man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter or courageous defender of the faith).
Are all engineers the *same*? No. Is there a certain commonality they share in how they think / solve problems which is not shared with the general public? I think the answer is likely yes.
Engineers make good EVERYTHING.
But terrorists? Only if the engineers are lonely, disgruntled people in-general. I think most engineers would be more Constructive than Destructive by nature
You see... that is the problem. The term "Terrorist" has been so deluded that most people will fall into that category anymore. Smoke pot? Terrorist. Downloaded a song? Terrorist. Using SSH? Terrorist.
And it is thrown around even more, if you show an average intelligence larger than those who would label you a terrorist... and how many people do you think fall into that category?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
1. A true engineer would is proud of the work that they do, therefore not hiding it. Hard to hide a bomb that you are proud of.
2. Engineers can't lie (see Dilbert). Therefore, when asked, "Are you a spy?" they answer yes.
3. That when they see a problem, they bring it to the attention of others. So, when they see a security hole, they will point it out instead of abusing it.
4. When they do something, they will tell everyone about it.
Fight Spammers!
Overall, it's hard to disagree with the article. Heck, a guy who has the persistence and brains to go through the gruesome class schedules of an Engineering school will not be easily deterred by obstacles. And he is inventive by training if not nature.
An engineer could easily turn bad... And he'd be very good at being bad, if he has the motivation. So the conclusion should be obvious: don't alienate engineers.
That said, I recently met a very nice and competent guy from Pakistan who is in the USA on an H1B visa. He is a PHP developer, and he is quite good. We discussed finances, and to my horror, I found out that he is making $1100/month. His employer houses him in an appartment along with six other H1Bs, so he prolly saves $1000/month in rent, but still, this is an insultingly low pay rate for such a qualified guy, but a factor 4 at least.
Now, this guy is very nice, and way too busy to even think about trouble. But I can't help thinking my reaction if I was dropped into a country where I would make less than your average waiter, after years of hard schooling. I'd harbor a grudge, that's for sure.
So a piece of advice for Execs and VPs: don't be too stingy with your folks. Them techie weirdos can turn into rampaging monster at the drop of a hat. Heck, I'll give them free espressos and decent raisses if I were you. :-)
Fantasy: http://ferrisfantasy.blogspot.com/
A good engineer will always think of the possibilities of destruction, even if they're in the business of construction. An engineer has to critically think about their designs to determine where the weak points are. Whether designing skyscrapers or secure software, determining weaknesses is a part of the job.
I'm sure the thought police would have a field day with me for saying this, but I think about committing crimes now and then. Not that I would do such thing, I enjoy my life outside of prison. But just as a type of mental exercise it's interesting to me while standing in line at a store, noticing where cameras are located, determining blind spots, exit strategies, exposed wiring that could be cut, etc. I then think about how I would improve the system.
My point is that engineering is about designing stability. You can't produce stability if you aren't able to see the possibility of destruction, so the same qualities that make one a good engineer are the qualities that make them a potential terrorist in the eyes of a paranoid politician.
Because people who can think rationally scare everyone else. We always have "good luck" (planning ahead), or can solve problems in seconds that they've been fighting with for hours. Not to mention a lot of us aren't religious, which makes us different, and therefore evil. Just like those "terrists" who believe in that other god and just want to kill all those red-blooded Americans.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
I'd have to agree that it's a fairly thin correlation to draw. Mind you, if I were going to blow something up, I suppose I'd want somebody with an engineering background in demolitions as opposed to an art major.
The question is where you'd fine such an engineer. Unless he/she is already a bit of a nutjob, an engineering background should come with decent employment options and intelligence that would somewhat contrast with the somewhat brainwashed or easily overwhelmed variety of terrorist-recruit that tends to be more readily available.
Recruiting engineers to be terrorists, likely not. Training terrorists to be engineers would be more likely.
That's the problem with engineers: they are never content. Always searching for a better way. Always trying to change things.
So what if the new skin is crude, broken, inefficient, obstructive, and plain ugly to boot? Just bend over and accept the changes like everybody else. Or are you some kind of a terrorist.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Don't make that mistake.
Don't think 'smart' people can't be brainwashed, misled, or wrong in a belief. In many cases smart people are EASIER to brainwash.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If very many competent engineers were terrorists, terrorism would be far more devastating than it is today.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And the truth is, lawyers and other personable people would actually make BETTER terrorists - especially when you have law at your side.
/. and other sites who will give the article attention and controversy if they say "engineers can be more evil?".
What type of people can we think of that can inflict the most terror...hmm...politicians. They hold power, can use the law (and lawyers) to help their cause, and they get publicity.
It must be because there are people on
You have to admit, as spelling errors go, it was a curiously apt one...
The Department Of Homeland Security lists Underwriters' Laboratories as a "Terrorist Organization", and tech schools as "Terrorist Training Camps".
That degree in Engineering now seems less like a Badge Of Honor and more like the Mark Of The Devil.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
In other news, engineers make good X, so long as X requires brainpower and not dance skills.
You'll never see a news story with the headline "engineers make great break-dancers."
But most of the terrorist groups the US seems concerned with today wouldn't appeal to the interest of a vast majority of Slashdot's readership. Unless, of course, there was a great deal of money involved.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. There are people who think that the oppression of the English state justifies the actions of the IRA. For them, the IRA fights for freedom. For England, the IRA are terrorists.
Buddhist monks are "terrorists" to the red Chinese- they certainly use tactics we would consider "terrifying", such as pouring gas on a reverend monk and lighting him on fire in opposition to the southern Vietnamese regime.
+5, Truth
Serious business, dude. I doubt you sincerely see this as anything more than FUD to silence smart people with prudent objections to the actions of the people in power.
I could stand in front of you and say that the charitable nature of Jesus's teachings make Christians good communists. It may even be true that Christianity is compatible with socialism, but that doesn't even imply that the vast majority of Christians are socialists. However, because of the stigma associated with terrorists and communists, I can start to shake your faith in Christians because of their socialist ideas.
Yeah, Engineers make good terrorists. You know who else makes good terrorists? Marines.
See Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald.
You know who else makes good terrorists? Mathematicians. Ted Kaczynski.
You know what else makes people terrorists?
MURDERING LOTS OF PEOPLE.
People act as if they can build a formula for finding at risk people, as if prevention is the number-one priority.
No, we should be mitigating risk and increasing SECURITY. If we can figure out a way to do this without OPPRESSING A FUCKING SOCIAL GROUP, I would call it the biggest advance of the millenium.
+5, Truth
SUBJECT: MrNaz
SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITY CLASS 2: Positively matched to keyphrase 'That damn Bush has got to go.'
ADDITIONAL DATA: ANGRY, Muslim, engineer.
PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS: Technical gear 27% Gardening 44% Government operation 89% Wiretapping 56% Censorship 38%
RECOMMENDATION: Threat level aqua. Dispatch surveillance team and interrogate subject.
Al Qaeda has been hopelessly and purposefully over-hyped. We in the US and to some extent other Western powers went looking for a vast international octopus to put the old Cold War spy and intelligence networks to shame. We were told there were sleepers everywhere and huge underground control compounds somewhere in the mountains of Afghanistan. Years later almost every so-called terrorist cell case has fallen apart as utterly empty and not one bit of major organizational infrastructure or evidence has come to light. The truth is that Al Qaeda is tiny and not very well funded. There is no serious wide-spread and powerful terrorist movement afoot. All that energy pretending there was was merely an excuse for greatly curtailing freedom, massively increasing government power and control and creating military power bases in certain highly strategic spots. It is high time we put paid to this vicious nonsense and utterly rejected any arguments or suggestions made on such a basis.
Engineers, especially of the hackerish variety, scare control freaks of every stripe. I think that is a very good thing.