Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Accommodating Eee With Lightweight XP
KrispyChips writes "In what could be a first Microsoft is working to create a special build of Windows, just because Windows doesn't run very well on a certain computer. ASUS' runaway success Eee PC is now 'officially' available with Windows XP, but (according to APC magazine) is not exactly a great experience. There are none of the nice pre-loaded apps that come with the Linux version, for example. And XP has some real problems coping with the screen size and limited system specs of the unit. As a result, ASUS says it is going back to Microsoft and working on a special XP build that will be lightweight and more suited to UMPCs."
This is where ASUS can come in a kickass, but bundling all the Windows versions of popular open source apps, like OpenOffice.org, GIMP, Inkscape, Audacity, MPlayer, etc.
Add in a little splash screen blurb that all of this stuff ALSO comes on the Linux EEE, which runs faster, more reliably, etc.
C'mon ASUS, whatdya say?
My blog
Man, M$ is running scared on this one...I never though I'd see they day they'd go to intentionally design an OS that works better on a less powerful computer.
Now, will this OS be generally available? It would be nice to be able to breathe some extra life into some of the slower systems I have here at work.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
The Eee PC is not really being sold as a desktop replacement but more as a portable supplemental computer, and CE already has a GUI that works with smaller screens. So what does XP do that CE doesn't, thta's needed here?
Isn't the problem with XP software that most programs now expect to use more than 800*600?
ie: this is not just a problem for Microsoft, but for all app developers.
I know in our shop we stopped really worrying about 8x6 a long time ago since most customers prefer detail over big fonts(low dpi) and scrolling - if we design most windows for use at 8x6 it looks awfully cramped on anything larger.
(having said that I am undergoing a retraining of sorts as I adapt to my n810)
liqbase
No, we're complaining that it sucks when the OEM doesn't. We don't have a problem with OEMs bundling apps with their hardware (something that major OEMS like Apple, Dell and HP do all the time), we just have a problem with OS vendors who are convicted monopolies with 90+% of the market bundling a bunch of crap in an attempt to put their competitors out of business.
My blog
Firefox and Openoffice.org have _earned_ their place on a desktop. IE or Mediaplayer didn't: MS used his OS monopoly to push them in the desktop. The same with Apple: they have a _almost_ monopoly for music players, but using this to push Quicktime ( = crap ) on everybody's desktop should not be allowed.
because people know Windows... duh
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
...I am going to interpret this as a victory for the common user, the ones who are saying no to Vista and yes to keeping XP or switching to Linux, that Microsoft is admitting without saying the actual words that they no longer dictate to the market place what we will use, that we refuse to keep buying every larger and faster PCs when do not necessarily NEED a bigger and faster PCs.
Bearded Dragon
...a Vista Lite is out of the question then?
Microsoft has been desperately trying to obsolete XP. They want it over and done with, gone, Vista is the new OS. But now this is introducing XP as the OS in a whole new class of machines, meaning Microsoft will have to continue to support it.
Now as I understand it, the way Linux is designed, everything is incremental improvements. The kernel is the only linuxy part shared across all linux distros and everything else bundled in is at the discretion of the distro owners. So even if some parts of the distro get a rebuild, there's more incrimentalism here than "chuck the baby with the bathwater" rebuilds leading to Vista-style clusterfucks. Is my understanding correct here?
Logically, Microsoft should have stuck with the incrimentalism. If they wanted a full rebuild of the OS, they should have done so, made sure it ran fast on the hardware out at the time of release, and included a VM-bundled copy of XP to provide backwards compatibility, the way OSX comes with a copy of OS9.
What I'm seeing here is Microsoft is forced to keep XP around longer which means there's less and less reason for people to think about moving to Vista. With all of the web 2.0 apps and things like terminal services, the laptop becomes a powerful dumb terminal. I've seen laptops that crawl running normal apps run like greased lighting once an rdp session is open, they can handle the client just fine. So the Vista upgrade strategy, already suffering from massive consumer blowback, is struck another blow. XP remains viable and on the market and Vista remains the "Now why the hell would I want to do that to myself?" OS. XP will continue to sell as machines wear out but there will not be the huge windfall of the entire install base making a migration to a brand new OS over the next several years. Seems like a proper marketing disaster here. Interesting.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"Lightweight XP" - Hell, that's what I've been using across my rigs for years, thank God for nLite. XP has grown to be a pretty stable OS by now, and if you get rid of all the crap Microsoft stuffed into the system it's actually lightweight enough to be run on low-spec hardware just fine.
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
And they're doing it with Safari too. The other day, when I downloaded an update to iTunes (7.6.2??) it tried to sneak Safari in there. If I would have just kept on clicking next, it would have downloaded and installed Safari. Luckily I noticed, and unchecked the option for Safari. Apple is getting just as bad as MS.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Microsoft bundled DoubleSpace/DriveSpace to put Stac out of business, they bundled EMM386 to put Quarterdeck out of business, they bundled Internet Explorer to put Netscape out of business, and they bundled Media Player to get Apple to stop making QuickTime for Windows (I believe the testimony given in court was they told Apple to "knife the baby" in regards to QuickTime for Windows).
You might like Microsoft's products, that's fine, but if you agree with their business practices then you're no better than they are.
My blog
LOL, I just got a picture in my head of some poor bastard being put in charge of stripping down Vista to run on a computer that can't even handle the full version of XP. The poor bastard would be suicidal in a week.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I just bought the Eee with Windows a few days ago here in Tokyo. Actually I havent really closely followed the story, but I think I already saw it here in the stores with Windows XP at least 1.5 month ago.
Anyway, just to comment on the usability: With the preconfigured Windows setup the small screen is really not used to the optimum. But if you tweak a little bit (like hiding the startbar, setting the Desktop environment to maximum performance etc.) things turn out to be quite ok. I also installed the 'hacked' scaling video driver, which works nicely and allows me to run my VJing application at 1024x768. So far without crash.
I would have preferred to buy the Linux version of this machine, but couldn't get it here at Big Camera. So the Windows version was more of a second choice. No proper command line but, anyway, I dont regret it.
Oh, and Microsoft/Asus does deliver some bundled stuff with the machine. Some LiveBlabla (office suite or something). I uninstalled it without looking at it though (for openoffice).
To conclude I dont think the normal Windows XP is such an unpleasant experience on the Eee. Of course a version with a smaller harddisk footprint might be nice.
-- LP-Research
A lightweight version of Windows XP sounds like a wonderful idea. Perhaps they could then port it to desktop computers so they will be really fast!
(reality sinks in)
Wait, standard XP was lightweight when it first came out. It was also horribly insecure, that's why the service packs came out. The service packs made XP slower and of course your going to need an antivirus...
Never mind, it's a horrible idea. They might as well start from scratch on a whole new OS.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
What's running on the XBox?
Is OP being facetious or an idiot?
Life would be easier if I had the source code.
Oh, the iPod works wonderfully with other online stores.
But iTunes is worthless for other music players.
ITunes itself is not the store. It's just a manager (and not a very good one).
If it were a commercial offering, then I would have an issue with it conflicting with other music managers or even WMP. But it's not, you can get free ones anywhere.
It seems like your objection is based on the fact that iPod has been successful. The weird thing to me is that iPod is inferior in many respects to other players in terms of UI and battery life--but people love the wheel thingy so they keep buying them.
Microsoft already has a stripped down version of XP shipping to corporate customers.
They'll change the login screens, and BOOM! Its XPeee. (or eeeXP, whatever)
Are you kidding?
I own a Windows CE handheld (HTC Wizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard) full of hardware capabilities and the pre-installed Windows Mobile 5 renders it almost unusable.
Luckily I could join a development team that were porting Linux to it.
Minor difference here, but MS was bundling applications that they made and abusing their monopoly position in one market for an advantage in another. Perhaps the same could be said for Apple as it is bundling its own iTunes software along with a variety of other applications. However, I don't see it as the same situation with Canonical as they didn't write most of the software they are bundling. They may have added to the software but much of what they distribute is the creation of others.
Yeah, like eMusic, Amazon.com, Magnatune.
Works wonderfully. Get a grip, stupid.
They bundled DoubleSpace/DriveSpace because it was a useful thing that they felt many of their users would benefit from. Same goes for EMM386, IE, MP, and all the other stuff. They've added a lot of features to their OS, without charging much more for it. Do you really want to pay to have support for extended memory? Or for browsing web pages? or for playing video files? Because until MS came along and started including it in the base cost of the OS, a lot of this stuff did cost extra.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
It works beautifully with Amazon's store.
Oh, and my Zen works well with EMI's stuff on iTunes.
Or are you implying that somehow, Apple should be offering all its music DRM-free against the wishes of the copyright holders? Because at this point, it's no longer Apple that wants the DRM on that music... (Video is another matter: Hey Steve! How about you use your weight on Disney's board to remove the DRM from the Disney movies you sell on iTunes Store?)
Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
I've been using my Eee pc for a few months without a hitch. The standard OS is good, plus installing something like Ubuntu is a breeze. I've had random people asking me to show them how to use it, where they can buy it and so on. Nobody , and I mean nobody has asked me : Can I install windows on it ?
In my point of view, this article shows how desperate Microsoft is in the light of newly educated consumers making a valid choice to go with a free and friendly OS over their bloat-OS.
Not to take anything away from XP, as it has its place in the desktop arena and runs just fine for me as a gaming rig.
Windows should only be bundled with non-competing, non-commercial apps.
That is, it's cool if Dell bundles MS Office, but it's not cool if Microsoft forces them to do this so OpenOffice can't compete. Most customers will want an office suite so something should be bundled, but it should be the decision of the manufacturer, not the OS provider.
You are really hitting on all the "misinterpret the argument" cylinders today, you know that?
jamincolins is correct, and to add to his argument: canonical bundles software that is actually useful to the end user. If MS really was serious about making life easy for the customer they would've bundled MS Office and a decent mailing client to name a few.
Anything and everything bundled with Ubuntu (using it as an example since Canonical was named) is actually useful to most PC users (there are a few apps that some will use and some not), AND all applications can be removed and replaced with something else. Let's look at web browsers as a for-instance: don't like firefox? Uninstall it and load something else, even IE should you wish to do so (it comes with wine) whereas I dare you to try and completely remove IE from a windows installation. You just can't.
The way I see it Canonical makes it as easy as possible for developers of open and proprietary software to add/install their products to a Ubuntu installation.
No way MS does that.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
But, Microsoft can't ignore the prospect of small, cheap, low-end laptops becoming widespread which are being shipped with Linux by default.
Neither can Dell, HP or any other hardware manufacturer. This trend impacts them every bit as much as Microsoft, although on the whole I think hardware manufacturers should be able to adapt easier than Microsoft.
For decades we've been subject to the hardware/software upgrade circle jerk. When Vista hit the market millions of PC users, particularly in the enterprise, thought their hardware was still serviceable and Vista didn't represent any compelling value. Couple a grown up Linux, that's functional and modular, with low cost hardware and all of a sudden the cost of Vista became a very big issue. And the cost of the hardware to carry that bloatware created a reverse circle jerk vortex in the minds of many technology consumers.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
If it was purely because the users would like it, why did they steal doubledrive?
....". So we ARE paying for it. 100% of windows computer owners are paying for it. Even if they got their media player free with their graphics card or DVD drive.
IE was TOTALLY to kill netscape. The Halloween documents say so.
Media Player is to push Windows Media (which has MS protection and can only be streamed by servers that run MS's software). Else why would they leave out DVD playback? That's a hell of a lot more useful to people than playing WMP Pi version.
And as to costing extra, the real cost of Windows has kept going up, but when this is pointed out, you and people like you say "ah, but how much more do you get now with windows than you did before? You get WMP, IE,
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
MS had a vista product aimed at this market segment: origami, however vista is too large for this ultra cheap pc. they also have windows mobile. But every one know windows mobile has very little to do with windows, and fails to run everyday windows applications.
Vista origami can run nicely on the already existing (900$ ) Umpc, but the ultra cheap eee pc was an unexpected success.
And MS already has a modularized version of XP ready, XP embedded. It is a small step to offer that to Asus with special licensing/branding condition (=cheap)
HP and Dell each sell about 11 million computers total per quarter. So that's about 3 million per month. Roughly half are laptops - 1.5 million. How many different models of laptop does Dell have? A dozen? At least 7 (from their home laptop page). If the low-end laptops sell better, let's say their inspiron line accounts for 70% of sales volume - about a million units. They have 4 inspiron models, so that's roughly 250,000 units/month per model for the largest PC maker in the world. On average, they sell
Asus is not even in the top 5, and maybe has a 5% market share to Dell's 15-20%. So for them, a laptop that sells 100,000 units a months is indeed a runaway success.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
And you know what: it's been absolutely perfect. Equipped with an SD Card, an USB mouse and a set of headphones it's a beautiful, tiny, unobtrusive office laptop during working hours and at home fast enough to comfortably use the BBC's iplayer, watch an .avi of a good movie and hook it up to the inhouse Ipod. All for ca 250 pounds. Yes, you get a normal sized Dell for that these days, but that's not as small, hence not fitting the criteria.
Microsoft has offered a product called Windows XP Embedded for a long time. It lets hardware vendors basically roll their own version of XP to suit the requirements of their device. They can take out this or that, assume a smaller screen resolution, or what-have-you. A tool that ships with the product cooks up an install image to their specifications, et voila!
I don't see anything particularly revolutionary about Microsoft helping Asus out with a customized version of Windows for the Eee PC when they routinely do the same for ATM manufacturers, for example.
Breakfast served all day!
First off, Microsoft will not allow ASUS to put open source applications on Windows preloads. Secondly, ASUS isn't dumb enough to put disparaging comments on the screen of a device which is already in the hands of the customer and tells them they should have bought the other model.
As far as how I see Microsoft moving on this goes, I see a new OS from them called Microsoft Windows CE-Vista for Eee PC or UMP Edition. I doubt they can get XP down to the size which can compete with Linux so putting a new face on a Windows CE variant and calling it XP or something like that to make people think it's something of value. In other words, they'll spend millions on marketing and throw garbage out as the product. But this time, it'll fail because they can't rely on quad core CPUs to hid their technical failures. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Because ASUS wants to sell eee PCs (make money), with whatever software people are willing or wanting to dump their money for -- even if it is Windows, if it runs slower than Linux on the eee, if it is only because of FUD fed fear of Linux, etc.
ASUS may have concluded that Linux was the best suited OS for their PC, performance and feature wise. But if a Windows version will be bought by people that wouldn't buy it otherwise, then ASUS is more than likely to welcome Microsoft and ship a WindowsXPLite version of the eee.
They chose Linux not because it was free software, but because it was the best suited OS. And that may be a reason to consider that it is the year of Linux, on the eee PC at least:
Cheers,
Sure, eventually technology will make even a fat pig like Vista look small and svelte. But Linux will still be slimmer -- and therefore cheaper. If people have the choice between a $200 machine and a $100 machine that does as much or more, guess which one they will pick.
Another problem for Microsoft is that people want their computers to be useful. Windows by itself is rather worthless, unless all you want to do is play Solitaire. People who have Windows will need to spend extra for applications, and that will easily double or triple the cost of their tiny laptops.
In contrast, Linux comes with a full suite of very functional and powerful applications -- and all of it is free.
Of course, Microsoft could upgrade Works to match the functionality -- and price -- of Linux's applications. But if Works became that powerful, who would buy Office? Nobody. MS is in a bind, they know it.
Conclusion: Linux will always have a giant price advantage over Windows.
With Eee PC etc being so popular, they don't feel so in control any more. MS are fighting a defensive action.
One thing Eee PC has done is exploded the myth that Linux is unusable by the non-geek and MS need to counteract that.
Engineering is the art of compromise.