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What is the First Day in a University Lab Like?
the_kanzure writes "I'm going to start at a university lab a few days after my high school graduation ceremony. The lab is an eclectic blend of computer science, evolutionary engineering and molecular biology, essentially it's research/development and — best of all — the research is worth something to me and my other pet projects. What I do know of science, tech and research has been gleaned from the internet. The open access research repositories (arxiv, PLoS, etc.) have been a life-saver. But showing up to get real, hard experience is not the same as those late hours into the night spent debugging software. In person, you can't just call up a favorite bash script to open up a few hundred tabs to do some quick research on feasability and past research ... how is this supposed to work — does anybody really get stuff done this way? So I've been wondering how Slashdotters have handled transitioning from learning in front of a screen and a good net connection, to actually showing up and getting stuff done. What's a first day like in a lab? Stories? What's the etiquette? Informal? In programing circles, you can always submit a patch and alternatives, but does this hold here? Is the professor still generally considered the PHB and the lowly undergrads are his minions to carry out his bidding?"
Expect non-stop ass paddling and beer bongs. Make sure to bring a swimsuit, as there are frequent wet t-shirt contests as well.
Your mileage may vary, however, as I work at an Ivy League institution.
www.phdcomics.com
Real Genius,
It is on sale this week for like 5 bucks at fry's...
LIVE IT!
Keep an open mind as to how you'll be put to use. Lab work is not always glamorous.
Build cred by being competent and getting stuff done. Try to find someone competent who can get you up to speed and answer your questions. Ask lots of questions.
Once you have some cred, if you have ideas on how to do things better, bring them up in a respectful manner. Professors worth their salt value initiative.
Huge YMMVs. Any idea of what working in a lab will be like will probably last 30 seconds once you get there.
Be excited, smart, and ready to get things done, and good things will happen. If they don't, find another lab. Seriously.
uni labs are great, lots of tea and lots of not doing much. At least in physics labs in england that is.
You're going to die.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I haven't worked in university labs but I have worked in labs affiliated with them. I suspect there's no real difference. You're probably going to have to put up with safety training which usually is a joke that drains a couple hours of your life. Then if you're lucky you'll get a computer which IT might take its sweet time to set up for you. But in the mean time I highly recommend you go around and introduce yourself to the people there. They are the ones that will be teaching you the most and can be very helpful, just try not to be too shy. Get acquainted with the people, equipment and where the best places to eat near there are located.
www.phdcomics.com contains all you need to know.
Dont be afraid of being proactive. Academic types will assume you know what you are doing and that you are working when really you could be drowning. Ask them questions.
I also suggest bringing a jacket. Labs can be chilly.
Good luck.
My first real "day" at a "lab" was a beamtime at a synchrotron. So thats hardly representative.
If you dont know _exactly_ what you want to know (and search for corresponding review papers), arxiv & co are worse than wikipedia for a basic knowledge background. You can very easily run into missconceptions, glorified pet theories, or just get lost in (for the big picture) unimportant details.
About professors: I cannot speak for the US, but over here, the professor has better thinks to do than playing tyrrant in the lab. In fact, many will hardly ever be there. They have to spend their time for teaching, and getting money to finance their (and that also usually means _your_) research.
Etiquette can be drastically different. I am in physics, and in one other chair of the institute i was back then, attentance at 8:00 was required, and people had to do their quarterly reports, ect.
While where i was, you just had to do your stuff (even if that means comming at 1pm and leaving late at the evening, ect). Tone was usually very informal. Just remember: For you its your Great First Day in the Lab. For the others, its just work/doing what is done every day. So you will just experience a normal work enviroment (well, a gernerally more relaxed one than in the industry, but still), with all the variations that this can include.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
Stupid question time (I'm not from USA).
How does it work that you go to a lab directly after high school? Are you going to study while you work in the lab? Or is it a permanent type of work?
With shiploads of luck I may be studying postgrad in the USA next year... (It seems that the USA has to most amazing university system in the world).
First of all, realize you're starting out at the bottom of the food chain, which means you're probably going to get all of the grunt work that no one else wants to do.
The agenda of a research lab typically revolves around its director(s). Everyone will be working on their own individual projects (all of which have been detailed in the grant the faculty member was awarded 5 years previously), but you can always approach someone who is working on something similar to you for help, should you require it. Most will probably be glad to help you. The environment is less formal and more close-knit than that in the corporate world.
Most time spent in the lab is rather dull. The exception to this is the month of January, because that's when conference paper deadlines tend to occur. Think of it as a punctuated equilibrium. If you know that the professor wants to submit a paper on one of the projects you're working on, start preparing a paper early, before he even mentions the conference, because if he's anything like mine, he won't mention the conference until two days before the deadline.
Don't expect fair apportion of credit, adherence to some glowing paragon of scientific method, or even basic integrity to abound. Most beliefs that outsiders hold about academia are false. In general, I'd advise going into the process with a healthy dose of cynicism.
Oh, and everything in PhD Comics is true.
perhaps he can gleam knowledge from the internet, though it's a sign he might want to turn down that monitor brightness a little.
Blazing Spiders
Being an undergrad fresh from high school, you won't be doing the professor's bidding. You won't even see your professor at lab. You will have a TA (teaching assistant), a grad student who handles the undergrad labs part time. The lab assignments will give practical experience to the material that will be covered in class. Notice I say "will be covered". That's because there isn't enough time in the semester to wait until you've covered things in class and then start experimenting later on. Often times you will get basic background info and a formula here or there, then you'll get to work. Then at some point, you'll study it in class.
My experiences with undergraduate CS labs weren't anything special. I would show up, get the assignment, listen to any info the TA had, and do a little bit of coding. If I wasn't making much progress, I'd leave and do the assignment at home later by telnetting into the university's servers using PICO.
As for engineering labs, they may provide you supplies or have you buy your own. While you're generally scheduled to be there for 3-4 hours, you might get done in an hour, or you might stay later. In any case, you finish all your work and record all your data there, as you won't have access to all that expensive equipment later when other groups are doing that same lab experiment themselves. You type up your reports at home, print them out, and hand them in the next week.
Don't get expectations built-up over first year labs. It's not until your senior project that you actually start doing your professor's bidding. You agree on a project, work with others in industry, and schedule lab time for your own uses however you see fit.
The first day will likely be spent in paperwork and safety briefings. One of the key things you should be told is "bio-safety level". Depending on location and age (over 18 or not) you may be restricted as to the level of organisms you can deal with. ----- Most important trait: Ask questions. Ask dumb questions. Ask questions even if you feel embarrassed not knowing the answer. You don't want to hurt yourself or a colleague by guessing. Nor does your employer want you to screw up an experiment by guessing, but that's secondary to safety.
You... don't know many English majors, do you? Certainly not average, incoming freshmen English majors.
is that communication is really important here - talk to people - listen more - remember that the most important communication happens in unstructured places - coffee breaks, having a beer, waiting for meetings to start etc etc - if you aren't hanging out with the other people you're working with you wont get the really creative group thing you're there to do working
Every lab has its own distinct culture, some of which comes from the discipline, some of which comes from the PI (Principal Investigator), and some of which comes from the other people in the lab. I've worked in several academic labs and the culture in each was startlingly different. I'm starting my own lab now, and I imagine it will turn out different from any in my prior experience!
:)
That said, I'll offer some general advice.
1. Unfortunately, there will probably no one whose job it is to set you up. And there are a thousand and one little details that you need to learn. Where is the photocopier? What do I do when the printer runs out of toner? Where do I order this reagent? Where happens when the biohazard is full? And so on. _Politely_ ask the lowest person on the totem pole until you get an answer.
2. There usually is not an official hierarchy, but the unofficial hierarchy generally runs along the lines of PI -> Postdocs -> Graduate Students -> Research Assistants -> Undergraduates -> Others, modified by time of residence and area of expertise.
3. Everyone in academia likes to be asked to offer their opinion. Even if you think you know the answer, you will often learn something by asking a question or two.
4. Nobody likes it when the new guy is a know-it-all. Even if you do actually know it all, wait a little while before letting everyone else know
5. Have fun and relax. No one expects you to solve all their research problems in your first week.
6. Also, a lot of academic research time (especially in the type of lab it seems you're going to) is "in front of a screen and a good net connection," albeit with access to a lot more peer-reviewed literature than you've probably had access to in the past.
There will be a set of formal rules, some of which are never followed and others the violation of which will get you fired instanter. You may or may not be told which are which - and certainly not told all of the distinctions. There will be an informal set of rules that you won't ever be told about but will have to discover on your own or face the consequences. These will include everything from standards of break-room refrigerator etiquette to which buttons you don't dare ever push (both literal and figurative buttons).
There will be several types of people there. There will be the ass kisser who is always sucking up to the bosses - and who may in fact be your boss. There will be the stickler for rules, and there will be those who don't pay any attention to the rules but still get a lot of work done. 20% of the people there will be highly competent and professional (for certain values of "professional"), and about 80% who are bumbling morons that make you wonder how they keep their jobs. There will be one guy who everybody looks to for guidance, decisions, and ideas, and who will almost definitely not have any formal authority. There will be some who you become fast friends with almost immediately, and some who will hate you on sight. There will be a guy who loves any opportunity to help you out, another who will help you out, but only as an excuse to rub your face in what you don't know, and one who you'd better not approach with any question that he thinks is beneath him (i.e. one he can't answer). One or more of these qualities may be present in the same individual.
There will be cliques and power structures that you will not be told about, yet you will be expected to find your place in them, possibly including taking sides. Choosing wrong could affect your entire career, but will at least substantially affect your success at that particular workplace. You will be expected to exercise more authority than you actually have, but no more than the unwritten rules allow you. You will have to discover that upper limit without crossing it by enough to have serious consequences.
You will be expected to put in extra effort, and perhaps extra time above what is supposedly expected, but will be looked down upon, and possibly resented, if you give too much. You will be expected to do what the boss actually wants, regardless of what he says he wants. You will be expected to do what the rest of your team wants, and expected to figure out what that is. The expectations of your boss and those of your co-workers will not always be compatible, but you are expected to meet both. You will be responsible for following policies which are counter to the purpose of the job, and which may even contradict each other. That will not be an allowable excuse for not getting the job done.
Your continued employment will be subject to seemingly arbitrary decisions of the boss and/or your co-workers. These decisions will not be based solely on your performance or compliance to policies and rules, but those will be the stated reason for your termination should that ever occur. Your promotions and salary will be subject to the same constraints.
The good news is that (most) everybody else already knows all this, accommodations will be made (within limits), and it's possible to successfully negotiate this and actually get real work done.
And, no, I've never worked in a lab.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
From my experience in Ivy League labs, it's all about the lab ethanol supplies.
Just make sure to drink only the 98% or 99% pure ethanol, without any denaturing contaminants. And bring plenty of mixers, 'cause that stuff is wicked strong.
Parent is right about the ass-paddling and wet t-shirt contests, though.
Take good notes, keep a good, organized laboratory notebook. Become very familiar with the instruments and/or software that you will be using. If you know how to use this well, and you become well known as an expert at a particular experiment/procedure, professors will love you for it, and you'll be a valuable resource to them later on (they may even ask you to come back a year or two later, if you're available, and pay you to do a particular experiment or train someone how to do what you've done).
Don't expect to work in one lab too long. You'll probably end up working in 1-3 different laboratories as an undergraduate, move on to a different one (or different school) for graduate school, maybe another lab for a PhD, and another one for a post-doc. That's the typical route -- expect it. There's not too much advancement in laboratory work without some type of graduate school, unless you want to end up maintaining equipment or working in IT or something. But if you start undergraduate research as a freshman in college, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a PhD in 7-8 years, easily.
A lot of your coworkers will not be American. A good number will be from India, and more from China. Don't let this be a reason you avoid them. The US has some of the top research universities in the world, and we usually get the cream of the crop in terms of foreign students and researchers (even some of the smaller, less well known American schools can be well known and well respected overseas). Their English may not be all that good, but most of them do know their shit, and can be quite helpful. And most of them do want to learn more English and become better at it, so talking with them will help them out as well as you.
Anyway, good luck to you. I'm not sure where you're going to be, but if you're going to be here, I might run into you,... Cheers!
Mea culpa for not spotting that and fixing before. My weak excuse, but real: higher-res screen than I've ever used before, and tighter pixels.
For the rest of the day, I've bumped up the font size a bit.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I spent several years in a university biology lab. I can't speak firsthand about a tech lab, but from my associations with others I have gathered that the following similarity holds true for nearly all university research environments:
The single largest factor determining your experience will be your professor. The specific attitudes and personalities of professors and the methods by which they run their labs varies quite a lot. The only thing you can really count on is that the prof will be the overlord. The undergrads, the grads, the post-docs, and the paid laboratory employees all have their fates tied to the whims of the prof. You may be allowed time to work on your own projects, but you can expect to spend most of your time working on HIS projects.
Some advice from the voice of experience:
Make certain before you begin that you truly like the professor and are truly interested in his specific area of research. Otherwise you will be in for a long, miserable, and possibly fruitless semester. If you have problems with either your prof or the research that you think may remain unresolved, don't hesitate to look into other programs with other profs! I know more than one student who has unsuccessfully attempted to tough through a program that didn't suit him. One wasted semester is better than four or five wasted semesters.
1. Take an interest in what other people are doing. First of all, most people love to talk about what they're doing. (provided you aren't asking at a bad time) Second, what everyone is doing may actually fit together and be motivated towards a common goal. Understanding that goal and how other people are working towards it can help you understand and motivate your own work. 2. Some labs will have extracurricular activities. Show up. Once you have some experience with the group, consider organizing extracurricular activities yourself, even if its just a trip to the bar. 3. Everything takes longer than you think it will. A lot longer. Try not to get frustrated. 4. If you think you are going to need parts that have to be ordered, work your ass off until they're in the mail. Then, while you're waiting for them to arrive, you can catch up on your other work. 5. There are going to be times when you need equipment that others are using. Don't sweat it. If they know you need it, they'll try to free it up for you. It might take a while though. Likewise, try to free up equipment other people need. 6. Don't panic.
As a computer science undergrad I really enjoyed my lab time, it was great way to socialise as well as work. Most of the time there wasn't much pressure.
As a post grad though I found that the lab, which I shared with six other people, was a distraction. Within a few months I'd changed to working from my lodgings over ssh. That way I got the resources I needed from my lab, but the peace and quiet I needed to get things done.
Labs can be great, but unless you can be certain of being undisturbed, they can be quite hard places to innovate.
I did my best programming work from home, and my best thinking whilst walking alongside our local river.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
My Uncle told me on his first day working in a lab (not in a university) he was asked to go to the store room for a "long stand". He went and asked for one, and the stores guy went to get it. 15 minutes later... you get the idea ;-)
Then his 'team' said his labcoat looked too small, so they told him to hold his arms out so they could measure it. A real long stand was quickly put through the sleeves so he couldn't move his arms.
or other effluents, always was your hands *before* as well as after using the bathroom.
HTH
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
"Your average English major not only knows that one, they can explain the etymology of it."
What do insects have to do with English majors?
Sheesh. Kids.
Having MS doesn't necessarily mean the professors like it. In intermediate physics lab, we need to have LabView. The boxes all have windows (even though the lab assistants and the professor dislike it) because LabView only has real driver support in windows.
Now come on up to the theoretical physics department: Linux cluster, Linux servers, and the professors have Linux desktops.
Since you're straight out of high school, they're going to have to teach you what to do. It could take a while, and if the field you end up working in is like mine, all the science is grad-level and there's very little resources on a basic level.
I expect that you'll be assigned a PI and you'll be given a project/sub-project to work on, either by yourself or more likely with another student or grad student. What this project will be is hard to say. It will definitely involve computing in some way, though: simulation, data analysis, design.
Don't be too apprehensive. Most labs are fairly chill, and the people are cool for the most part. There's always a few bad apples, but you've got a long ways before bad PIs can influence your career.
If the school is anything like the one I went to, it seems like you will be leaps and bounds above your classmates. Most first year classes are a joke. My advice is be careful because it does get harder real fast.
I did almost nothing in my first year and a half of Uni, and still got really good grades. I partied pretty hard, and next thing I knew my edge was gone. I went from being way ahead to being behind and it was hard to become a 'good student' again.
I've been a prof (biology), and therefore obviously also a grad student. Good profs are not PHBs. That's around 0.05% at a wild guess. Tread very carefully until you're *sure* what species of prof you have. You depend totally on him or her, and there's no real appeal against anything they do. (Start appealing, and you're a troublemaker and dead meat anyway.) It's a feudal system.
If you find out you can't stand your prof, change topics somewhat, make some plausible excuse, and go work with someone whom you've vetted more carefully. As an undergrad, you're probably not going to be seeing that much of the profs anyway. Post docs and grad students are going to be your main mentors. Post docs are wildly overworked, so never ever ever waste their time. You may find yourself squashed like a bug if you do. (Did I mention that it's not a democracy?)
As for learning, techniques, and all that straightforward, non-political stuff: that's the easy part. Just do whatever works.
"Of course, industry would have more excuses to use Microsoft software, so with a University job, if they use Microsoft stuff that is a red-light, "something's not quite right here"."
What a load of closed minded twaddle. You will get nowhere being an O/S zealot in the workplace, actively trying to avoid MS in either a corporate or an academic environment is like trying to avoid death and taxes.
The rule is 'use the best tool available for the job', as a low-level newcomer to the lab the submitter can hardly be expected to know how the lead proffesor has defined 'best'.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I took an intro to C class to pad my hours one semester. I was one credit short of full time and needed a 1 credit class.
The TA was an idiot. He taught the class so far over everyone's head nobody had the first clue what to do. And it was an intro class. But, I knew though. I actually did know how to program in C already. I was taking the class as a gimmie.
I wound up teaching the class in the hallway. I'd show up a half an hour early and help these poor people this uber-leet jackass left hanging out to dry.
You sound like him.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.