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JFK, LAX To Test Millimeter-Wave Scanners
Narrative Fallacy writes "The Transportation Security Administration has announced that it's beginning pilot tests of millimeter wave scanning technology at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) that allow TSA personnel to see concealed weapons and other items that may be hidden beneath clothes. TSA Administrator Kip Hawley says that that the potentially revealing body scans (YouTube) would not be stored and that 90% of passengers subject to secondary screening opt for a millimeter wave scan over a pat-down. The agency added that security officers viewing the scans would do so remotely, where they will not be able to recognize passengers but will be able to trigger an alarm if needed. The agency also said that a blurring algorithm is applied to passengers' faces in scanned images as an additional privacy protection."
before we see "best of anonymous airport scanner" porn sites pop up. On the bright side, the faces will already be blurred. From the I'd-know-that-birthmark-anywhere department.
Invenio via vel creo
I mean, just how many millimetre waves are people going to be smuggling onto airplanes?
Is there a market in black market millimetre waves that I'm not aware of?
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
I was asked to do a scan at Heathrow, with no option for a patdown instead.
To do this I had to stand in a certain posture.
Imagine someone trying to push, with both hands, a wall coming at them from a slight angle above - or, someone doing a Hadouken at a telephone pole.
At the same time they should have their legs like someone doing a "Kungfu Dancing" imitation, with the condition that they have just crapped themself so making sure they keep those cheeks extra spread.
Image from front and back.
Given that both this airports insist on you taking laptops out of your bag (how bad a scanner is it?) and shoes off and on my last notable trip through JFK I had to remove all electronic items (2 ipods, PSP, 2 mobile phones, 2 laptops, safe token) an put them through in a series of trays I can just imagine how this will actually work.
They'll ask you to take your clothes off, put the clothes through the scanner to find anything "invisible" and then send them down a ramp at high speed getting them all mixed up with other people's clothes.
My current irritation in US airports is the "boarding card" check AFTER the body scanner. So if (like me) you normally put your ticket in your jacket pocket (which of course has to be scanned separately) then you get scolded even though your boarding pass had to be checked to get you into the security queue in the first place. All this check does is slow everyone down for another 10 seconds per person for absolutely ZERO benefit (they don't check that you are the person on the card, just that you have the boarding card).
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
it'll certainly catch any unauthorised commandos.
How many of those people actually were aware of the pat-down option? I bet it was not 100%. Also, given the fact that even Medical information cannot be reliably kept confidential in most cases, I sincerely doubt this data will. Unless there are strong prison sentences for any employee convicted of disseminating this information, I am not impressed with their statements of security, confidentiality, or purported privacy.
Uh huh. I feel so much better that the pervert checking out my junk is out of sight. Yeah, much better. Ohhh, but I do agree that the blurred faces give additional illusions of privacy. I am certain that all the women feel better that we men aren't looking at their faces.
I had this happen at London Heathrow. I was selected for secondary scanning, and directed to the mm-wave device. The operator was sitting in a booth right beside the machine, but only he could see the screen.
The thing that really annoyed me is that I wasn't given a choice - simply told to go through this device. There was no explanation of what it was, or what it would do, only that "the amount of radiation is about the same as flying for an additional 5 minutes at altitude in a plane". However, when I asked the simple question "do I have to?", they sheepishly admitted that I did not. I signed a form saying that I didn't accept it, and they walked me to the front of the line for normal security!
So, by saying "no", I actually saved about 20 minutes in line.
My advice - REFUSE to participate in invasive scans like this. If people accept these new intrusions like sheep, it'll just keep getting worse.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Yes - but is also needs to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR to passengers that they have the option to opt out too! I had this experience in London Heathrow - they didn't give me a choice, until I asked if I must do it... after a few minutes of avoiding the question, they sheepishly admitted that I didn't have to.
People are often afraid of challenging any sort of authority these days - for fear of reprisal. That's unacceptable. You shouldn't be afraid to ask questions, and shouldn't be labeled a terrorist for doing so either!
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
I see the Puritan influences is still pervasive and strong in this country regarding our bodies.
Remotely? I bet the security office watching the screen at remote place...is operating by themselves? How easy could he be holding a cellphone and recording all this?
Tell me next time when there is kiddie porn leaked from the video feed of scanner like this.
He/She is a terrorist. Burn her/him!
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
I'm sure the rat-things will disarm me promptly.
/. articles about sintered armorgel being produced, or I'd be really bad off.
Good thing I remember
You will be baked, and there will be cake.
Airport security -- first job choice for pedophiles now. The government spends half its energy trying to catch people looking at kids in their underwear, and then the other half making sure some people can get a good clear view.
just follow my logic here. I only fly because my company makes me. When I go to the airport I have to put up with all this security bullshit and now they've put in magic scanners (it's magic to me, as it is to most everyone) and the security people get to see me naked. So basically, if I want to get paid, my company is demanding that I get naked. Now, I don't know about you, but I didn't sign up for that. I'm not exactly *against* the idea of getting naked for money, but I think I should be getting paid a lot more than I am now if that's the deal.
How we know is more important than what we know.
All else aside, how much do these things cost? Who's paying?
The homeland security folks have had a blank cheque to pay for whatever cool toys they want for far too long.
Air travel is expensive enough as it is, and considering just how rarely I do it, the taxpayer subsidies are sickening as well.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
The boarding pass check is to see if you should be directed to secondary screening. Yes, it's dumb that they put the secondary screening indicator (the "SSSS" of doom) on your boarding pass, but that's how it works.
If the system has an algorithm to blur the details of faces, then obviously, you just need to hide your terrorism kit in your face.
Everyone needs to be making MUCH more fuss. This has got to stop. Even if you believe in the terrorists under the bed nonsense, you have to understand that by allowing security checks etc like this then the terrorists have won without lifting a single finger.
It's probably already too late to reverse most of the harm done by the Bush and Blair/Brown regimes, however that doesn't mean that every thinking person should not be trying to do just that. It's got to stop.
So even if grandma has a new hip and goes through the new scanner she's still getting a pat down. I also beleive this is the case for any alarm form the new scanner
Personally I have to question then how is this an improvement oveer the current magnetometers from a user perspective.
Also I do not for a minute buy the government's assertion this is safe. Plain and simple there isn't enough long term data for them to make that claim.
The easy path is one that leads to losing all your rights. Point out to me precisely where you derive this "right" to getting on an airplane without being searched? Go on, show me. I'm sure you know exactly what paragraph and clause in the Constitution says you have the right to board an airplane without having to comply with security regulations. You have to know because you're so damned sure you've got this "right."
Of course, you have no such right because the law makes no provision for one. If you do not wish to submit to being scanned/searched/whatever, you can take a bus, a cab, or your own personal transportation. No one is restricting your ability to get from point A to point B, there are no traffic control points with Gestapo'd brownshirts saying "papers please." You're making a mountain out of a molehill because it suits your agenda. The bare facts are this: if you wish to travel via air, you are traveling in a collective manner, and the safety of everyone on board -- include your thin-skinned self -- outweighs your individual right to be a paranoid, the-government-is-out-to-get-me-all-the-time passenger. If the above security measures offend you so much, put your moral fortitude where your mouth is and don't travel by air. Or, if you must, charter your own flight and skip security altogether. Yes, it's expensive, or time consuming, or annoying depending upon what alternate mode of travel you chose, but if you're so terrified of losing your "right to privacy," it's a small price to pay...right?
I don't trust the government any further than I can throw it, but I don't trust you either. That's why I'm happy as hell people are screened before they get on a plane with me, and I wish like hell they'd scan more of them and more thoroughly.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
I'm a transsexual, and this would totally out me (people generally can't tell). As if I need people to find more excuses to give me shit.
I submit that if a TSA screener should be entitled to such a scan, that I should be entitled to see them do the same. Unfortunately, given the appearance and physical fitness of your average screener, I think I'm getting the short end of the stick even in that case.
In all seriousness, though, these sorts of violations by our governments upon the governed is the intent of terrorism. Civilians are the indirect target. By making them afraid, the government is pressured or motivated to enact increasingly restrictive laws and methods of enforcement to assuage that fear and protect the populace. The terrorists know that full protection is impossible, so they continue until the loss of freedom becomes so intolerable that the people overthrow the government. The politicians and so-called elected officials know this, but play into their hands anyway--in the short term, the power grab is irresistible.
The entire focus on security (and technology to improve such security) is wrongheaded, and is a convenient diversion from the real issue, which is why people become terrorists in the first place. People don't explode themselves for no reason whatsoever. No amount of technology, legislation, or vigilance will ever address the root cause that incites an individual to such fervor that they are willing to DIE to achieve their aims.
But again, the politicians know this--so one must call into question their own motivation for pushing these measures on the public. When I have the ability to subject each and every last one of our elected officials, corporate officers, and whomever is telling me I'm supposed to be OK with being scanned and exposed in such a humiliating fashion, to the exact same treatment, then and only then would I consider accepting such a practice. When I can see Dick Cheney's ugly-ass flaps of man-tits hanging over his oversized belly obscuring his undersized privates (mind you, not that I would ever risk the subsequent psychological scarring), I might reconsider. And if even one scan ever gets leaked or misused in any way, I'd like to see the scans of each and every one of those people involved in promoting this technology released all over the internet for everyone to laugh at as punishment. Otherwise, their promises and reassurances mean nothing.
It is not a question of trust, freedom, modesty, or security. It is a question of accountability; because without that, everything else is meaningless. To the extent that those that watch us do not desire to be watched by us is the precise extent to which we are not a free and just society.
Agree to that. But for non-puritans the worst part already happened.
I -do- mind having my nude photo taken in order to be allowed on a plane.
I mind a lot -MORE- though having to deliver a metric shitload (make that 2.356 imperial shitloads) of personal data in order to be allowed to fly.
Realistically, I look like an average adult. If someone gets off on blurry outlines of average adults, it's not as if such are in short supply anyway, and frankly I kinda doubt it. And I doubt these pictures are even stored at all, past the few seconds the guards spend inspecting them.
On the other hand, to even be allowed to fly into USA, your freedom-loving government insist that my plane-company provide them with a LONG list of personal data, to be stored indefinitely;
My name, sex and age. When I bougth the ticket. If it's a return-ticket or not. How I paid for the ticket. If I bought it directly, or trough a travel-agency. With whom I'm traveling. Age, name and sex of everyone I'm traveling with. What class I'm flying. My complete travel-itinerary for this trip. And so on.
I consider this a -much- worse invasion of privacy than some blurry nudes. And infact I refuse to comply. Which mean that I refuse to visit the USA at all presently (and have since 2001).
A pity. There's friends over there I'd like to see more often, and there's places I'd like to see and experience. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back, you'll regain some measure of privacy, if not, oh well, it's not as if there's a lack of other interesting places to go and things to do.
I liked the way planes worked on the tiny airport near where I grew up. A lot like buses do today. You wait until the plane lands. Stewardess comes out and opens the luggage-hatch. You yourself toss your luggage in and enter the plane. Stewardess comes around and checks that everyone has a ticket. Your name ain't on the ticket and at no point are you even asked who you are. Closes the doors, and off you go. You could drive into the parking-lot and see the plane land -- and make it no problem. Back then. Oh well. Guess I'm getting old.
The scans have to be stored for criminal prosecution and accident/incident investigation.
Get off my lawn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Airports were the first place where it didn't apply. Now you can be frisked before entering a night club, a political rally, or hell, even your local high school.
The way the US has let the Fourth Amendment slip over the years is a disgrace.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I thought all radiation is dangerous to some degree, even sunlight.
As for prudishness, most bodies are boring if anyone has spent more than a few minutes at a nude beach or as a medical professional. Most mature people can easily handle this.
Yes, It's an unreasonable infringement of privacy, because it's useless and gives an unreasonable amount of power to airport "cops", with apparently no counterpower.
And explain to me how it is constitutional that "eastern looking" people systematicaly spend twice the time boarding their plane (when they can). Perhaps one day you'll get your wish. Maybe it'll be the day Abdullah and Hassan decide to blow up the plane you're riding in. Well that answers my question about your fear of racial discrimination I guess. But you can feel safe: all people whose name are Hassan are on the no fly list! Why? because it could be an alias for Hussein! And by the way, the ghosts of the terrorist who killed themselves on 9/11 will not be able to board, either! And for those who happen to have the same name? It's just bad luck.
Don't take my posts literally; it's just code to control my botnet.
Does anyone have pictures of what the resulting scans look like? The only one I could find was on the tsa.gov website.
If that's what it really looks like, then I don't understand how there is any real controversy here. You'd have to be a desperate fella to get aroused by that. Any of these technologies, I assume, are going to be very abstract representations of the human body, hardly something comparable to an actual naked photo of you.
In the end, people will always be able to see you naked the old fashioned way: using their imagination. Get over your vanity, honestly.
"Arrr, I curse the shark that stole me leg." -PegLegPete