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Laser Pointers Classed as Weapons in Australia
An anonymous reader was the first to point to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald which says that New South Wales (of which Sydney is the capital) will prohibit the possession of certain types of laser pointers, defining them as weapons, and make it an offense to carry any laser pointer "without a lawful reason." (Similar coverage at news.com.au) Western Australia apparently beat NSW to the punch, and the federal government of Australia announced earlier this month it will treat laser pointers much like firearms, which, in Australia, is really saying something. The restrictions come as a reaction to incidents (not confined to Australia) in which the lasers were trained on planes, distracting pilots.
This is a little excessive, and I challenge the govenrment in NSW to define a lawful reason. this law seeks to punish everyone for the actions of a few idiots. personally, popping balloons with the things is a lawful reason to carry :)
Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home!
Fricking sharks with fricking laserbeams attached to their fricking heads.
I think therefore I am... a Linux geek.
They aren't banning class 1 laser pointers (won't cause eye damage) or class 2 laser pointers (your natural blink reflex should be sufficient to protect you from eye damage). They're only banning high powered class 3 and 4 laser pointers (may cause eye damage and need to use eye protection). Most laser pointers are class 2. To be honest, I think this is a good thing. The less idiots with potentially dangerous lasers, the better. A class 2 laser is good enough for most people, and if you really need a bigger one (i.e. not just to compensate for your small breasts/penis), you can get a permit.
I dunno...
Ban guns because guns kill people.
Ban lasers because lasers blind/distract/kill people.
Can we ban cars? Cars kill more people then both here...
How about trains? Been a few people killed by them...
Hospitals? Lots of people die/get killed in hospitals...
These incidents are, overall, extremely rare. In-flight they are not an issue at all. Furthermore, pilots better be able to deal with them, since there are lots of other sources of bright light that may cause them to be temporarily blinded (or experience the "photic sneeze").
If lawmakers are just itching to make a new law, make it a specific law that says that it's illegal to carry a laser pointer on your person, outdoors, within 2 miles of the runway, where it could be pointed at planes taking off or landing.
Somewhat stupid, sure, like the first post talking about banning headlights so we can't blind other drivers.
But then after stories like this on salshdot: http://slashdot.org/articles/07/08/09/0412215.shtml, I'm not the least bit surprised?
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
That's not a knife, that's a spoon!
Alright, you win. I see you've played knifey-spooney before.
compared to the chaos that will ensue after the cats of Australia have found out what lawmakers have done with their favorite toy and rise up as one to slay them.
Monstar L
and I stayed silent.
Then they disarmed the ewoks, and I stayed silent.
Then they came to disarm me, and there was no-one left to speak up.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
It's illegal to have headlights above a certain brightness level, or perhaps it's above a certain number of lights - but there are light configurations you can put on a car that will get you pulled over if you have them on for street driving.
Now it's not illegal to have said lights mounted, so that's the point where the car analogy breaks (as they always do). But it does show your point is not as ridiculous as you had thought, because having really bright beams pointed at traffic is in fact a valid safety issue.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FWIW, I'm one of those who've been injured with a laser pointer. It took a momentary glance up the street after leaving a Newtown bar with friends for me to be left with a blind wiggle across my right eye, from the lower right to the upper left, running right through my fovea. I'm unable to read unless I use my left eye, because with my right there just aren't any words there. I can see the big picture, but no details. That was July 2006, and two years of partial blindness makes a hell of a difference to life. Forget watching fast paced movies and having a clue what's going on, get ready to read 1/3 the speed you used to, and forget being able to look at code and tell the difference between { and ( without using a 20 point font.
And perl... it's all but incomprehensible.. oh wait, I learned that after being blinded. I kid I kid.
The thing about the tools who use laser pointers like this is they can be so far away nobody has any idea who they are, where they are, the beam is silent, and about all you can tell is it's over-that-way-somewhere. The bouncers around that night said they'd seen a laser pointer dot bouncing over guests through the evening, but thought nothing of it.
Whether or not they should be banned is one question, but comparing them to screwdrivers, knives, or axes is being a git who doesn't turn their brain on. At least if some bastard had come at me with a knife they'd have been caught, and at the very least been beaten into a pulp by either my friends, or the bouncers.
The laser pointer tools though - anonymous, quiet, pretty much undetectable, and their weapon leaves absolutely no evidence behind of what it was apart from really fucking bright.
Have pilots really been blinded by lasers pointed from the ground? Because the pointer can't get within a thousand feed of a plane, and actually even more at the angles that can reach over the plane's body and into the pilot's windows. At that distance, these laser pointers' beams are spread out pretty wide, so the person pointing them can possibly see the dot from that far away. So the brightness on the tiny fraction of that dot's area that actually falls on the pilot's eye is pretty small. Even more problematic is that your hand shakes. It might be unnoticeable at close range, but tiny angular deflections at the base of an angle extending a quarter mile or more to a plane makes the dot wiggle all over the place. It's hard to aim the laser even close enough to stay anywhere on the whole plane, let alone through the refracting windows and into a pilot's eye, 1/8" across.
It just seem so unlikely. Is there any proven examples of this happening, or is it just paranoia, and maybe totally unrelated pilot errors they're conveniently blaming on something no one else saw, someone impossible to catch if they did exist?
--
make install -not war
With all the great white sharks surrounding Australia this would have been the perfect opportunity to equip them with lasers and stave off the Indonesian invasion!
I bought a "extra bright" laser pointer from Edmond Scientific. It turns out it's a Class IIIa with about 5mWatts of output. Most others have substantially less. I'm still vary careful about using it around reflective surfaces and no matter how fun it is, I won't harrass my cats with it.
So unless you have in fact harassed your cats with it, how would you know how fun it is to do it? Explain that one, you CAT HARASSER!
Here we're not talking "blinded as I cannot see the road for 5 seconds", we are talking "blinded as my retina is gone"
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Laser pointers do !
So since a handful of people do something stupid with a laser pointer, AUS outlaws them. I've got to think that far more deaths are caused by car accidents as a result of people being 'brighted'. Will they outlaw high-beams. They should probably outlaw really bright directionally focused light sources altogether. Better outlaw water while they're at it. I mean, look how many people drown every year.
There have been half a dozen or so such incidents in Australia in the last few months, including one which involved coordinated beams from multiple locations directed at the same plane.
E.g.:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2211257.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/29/2202704.htm
As an Australian who flies quite a lot, I'm extremely happy for them to ban these things if it stops morons from blinding my pilot on final approach. The fact that there have been coordinated attacks is also evidence that it is more than an incidental problem.
Read Pynchon.
I'd just like to point out that this article is about Australia, don't bring America into this. Not everything is about America.
Homer: A high powered laser is not a weapon, Marge, it's a tool. Like a butcher's knife or a harpoon, or... or an alligator.
Did they ban the posession of the sharks, too?
So even if you don't care that irresponsible idiots could intentionally or accidentally blind people - including you - you should be able to see the sense in this.
but the laser inside a DVD writer is just as powerful (pop balloons, light matches) although less accessible.
If people were genuinely trying to disable pilots (a feat of aiming that's so close to impossible as to make downing an aircraft by throwing stones at it look credible) they could easily extract these and use them in the same way.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
It is about America if said American debater either feels defensive of/morally superior to the other person's point of view.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Cool! That means I'm armed and dangerous.
Finaly I can start robbing banks. The not-having-enough-money-to-buy-a-gun is no longer a show stopper.
Oh please, big government, save us from ourselves by outlawing more things! We don't need to be personally accountable for our own actions!
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones
Do some basic research before you act like a prick in future
I really have no idea what they want to find out about me, they know I don't like them and that I like their recent predecesors even less (mainly because I'd rather be re-Neducated than incarcerated).
We had an "ideas summit" here on the weekend that "drew together the county's best and brightest". There was a sound bite from one of these people who looked remarkably like a 30 something bonghead, "We are here to imagine a better life for everyone.". A shudder went down my spine as the words fell out of his mouth like mollases, but then I thought...hmmm...maybe he is talking about free pot?
In reality amoungst the bongheads and myopic activists there were some pretty smart people attending, but predictably the ideas that got the most press were not new: "clean coal", "ditching the Queen", and "a bill of rights". Pity nobody came up with the idea of replacing Mick Keelty.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I carry around a class 3A ( 5mW) laser pointer, which is perfectly legal in Europe. From Class 3B onwards, you need to be a ctrained in laser safety. Would the 3a make me a weapons carrier in Australia?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Do you have a list of ideas from the 2020 Summit that the rest of is not aware of? If so, could you point me to it? Thanks.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
They just need a warning label, like 'Warning: Do not point laser at remaining pilot'.
If I'm driving at 110km/h down the Pacific Hwy and I lose eyesight for 5 seconds, I'm probably good as dead.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The summary doesnt make it clear but laser pointers have become a real problem.
Many idiots think its funny to shine them at pilots and its started to occur frighteningly often.
There have been a number of close calls when pilots have been blinded.
They arent banning your regular laser pointers.
Just the stupidly powerful ones which most people do not need.
Cool for popping a balloon, not so cool when its in a pilot's face with hundreds of people's lives in the balance.
Lasers class 3 and up are already prohibited in many countries, at least the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.
I was stopped at a traffic light and was distracted by a red flicker in the corner of my eye. Turned towards it and had a red beam square in the retina. I was NOT impressed. The two little shits who were nonchalantly beaming their laser pointer at traffic at the intersection were totally oblivious to their utter stupidity. I pity the parents of these idiots as they are a testament of the poor genetic material that has been carried over in their progenies. I was tempted to either rush home to fetch the overclocked 10mW eye-fryer and fuse their retinas or stop the car and beat the living shit out of them. Fortunately for them I decided to call the cops and warn them of the potential pile-up about to happen at that intersection.
HEX offender mugshot ID: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Welcome to the club! I would offer you a welcome gift basket, but it's being held up in legal pending approval of the government that all products in it are certified non-lethal.
We've prepared for you a chair. You'll need something comfortable to sit in while you wait for years and years of court cases, as standing that whole time is just uncomfortable.
I see you've found our complimentary golf-towels. Oh, no, we don't have a golf course. See, the government doesn't trust us with any small object that travels at anything resembling a high speed. The golf-towel is to dry the nervous sweat from your brow as you sit on the edge of that comfortable chair as the courts decide on cases that could either classify you as the law-abiding citizen simply for doing the things you've always done or declare you a criminal simply for doing the things you've always done.
Oh, and we have over there our Screech-o-mat(tm), a device that you can pull the lever on to remind you of the pointlessness of arguing your case that you're not a bad guy for simply owning a useful tool, because all you'll get if you DO defend yourself is the screeching and wailing of fear-mongers and politicians who are slowly stripping away your rights and liberties "for the children." Oh, there it goes. Yes, it's normally that loud, and yes, the "arguments" it spouts are all direct quotes from the people who think you're a danger to life, the universe, and everything simply for being Not Them. I guess Bob needed his daily reminder.
Uh-oh, Phil over there forgot to use the Screech-o-mat again! Don't mind him, he'll wind down in about 10 minutes or so. That's what happens when you don't use the Screech-o-mat, you start to wonder why the world doesn't make sense and wonder if you're living in a madhouse. Yeah, that's why he's shouting that at the top of his lungs...oh, hey, he ran down quicker than usual. He must not have had his morning coffee...oh, no, wait...there it is. His soul just got crushed under the realization that the inmates are running the asylum and there's really not much that can be done about it anymore, as everybody in power seems to have checked their common sense at the door and lost their claim ticket.
Don't worry, you get used to it after a while. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go use the Screech-o-mat.
I have no tag line
I don't think it's applicable to hand-held pointers or laser/pen combos (ie, most of what you can actually buy anyway).
Check your pocket. I have a couple $3 pen pointer sets collecting dust. They are all IIIa devices. I don't have a single class II pointer.. Do they really have a class II laser pointer? I don't have any.
The truth shall set you free!
It's not about saving us from ourselves. Its specifically about saving a couple of hundred other people (mainly in flying metal cylinders) from idiots who think doing this is clever. Remember, your right to flail your arms around like a madman end where my face begins.
/. ?), and also assuming that its well nigh impossible to find the little fuckers who are doing it, then banning laser pointers powerful enough (or with a beam coherent enough over long distances), is possibly a valid thing.
I don't know the prevalence of this "point laser at pilot" behaviour, but assuming that its not ludicrously small (there sure have been a lot of incidents hit the news down here recently, any pilots reading
Personally, I say "meh". I can't recall the last presentation where someone actually used one as anything other than a fidget-widget.
Ironically, that is the tactic the Southern "slave power" used to silence Abolitionists in the 1840s-60s. They even passed a resolution in the U.S. Congress forbidding the introduction of anti-slavery laws, much to the chagrin of John Quincy Adams who insisted he has a right to free speech. Mr. Adams kept trying to introduce new laws, but the Southern Congressmen would shout him down, and accuse him of violating Congressional rules.
What better way to maintain slavery than to silence the critics.
The issue was ultimately resolved with a war. The Abolitionists may have lost their right to free speech, but they won the final battle. Are we repeating the same mistakes as our ancestors by forbidding people from expressing their views?
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
But is it necessary to BAN the pointers? Punish 99.99% of the population, because of the misbehavior of a few? That seems out-of-bounds.
The more logical course would be to locate the criminal with a pointer in his hand, and then shoot him dead. Punish that ONE person, not everybody.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
If you don't taste anything in your orange juice tomorrow morning, that's not iocaine, honest.
I hear the population of sharks-with-fricken-lasers-attached-to-their-heads is quite high in Botany Bay which is on the approach to Sydney airport.
!sig
Did you not read the parent poster? He says that it's "also assuming that its well nigh impossible to find the little fuckers who are doing it", then the "banning [of] laser pointers powerful enough (or with a beam coherent enough over long distances), is possibly a valid thing."
It's almost impossible to find the buggers, let alone catch them in the act.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Sounds to me like we need a technological solution.
/really/ crash an airplane.
If laser pointers are this dangerous simply banning them is not going to be much of a deterrent against someone who wants to use one to
I wonder if some kind of coating can be applied to the windows of airliners that can reduce the intensity of laser beams without compromising pilot visibility?
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Is the laser inside a DVD writer visible to the naked eye? If not, manual targeting could be more difficult.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Sounds like politics to me.
Also sounds pointless, since the President isn't bound by Congressional Resolutions. For that matter, if the Congress had made it against the law to introduce anti-slavery laws, it'd still be meaningless, since a later law automagically supersedes an earlier law (which is why balanced budget laws are meaningless - the budget is a law also, and supersedes the balanced budget law).
And the Southern Congressmen had every right to shout JQ Adams down. They had Free Speech too, and could use it to shout down people they disagree with, just like anyone else.\
Adams might have been better served by vetoing any legislation that hit his desk that would do anything helpful for the South. At least until the Southern Congressmen took the hint (which might have been never - they were a stubborn lot back then).
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
should be outlawed as inhumane and cruel weapons(blinding weapons per Geneva convention), not merely a restriction and jail sentence.
THese things are not "toys". Its on the same level of responsibility as giving kids machineguns.
direct quote from wikipedia:
The output of laser pointers is generally limited by ANSI to 1 mW or 5 mW in order to prevent accidental damage to the retina of human eyes. Usually, pen lasers are class 2 or class 3a lasers, which require extended viewing times to damage the retina severely. "The risk to the human eye from transient exposure to light from commercially available class 3A laser pointers having powers of 1, 2, and 5 mW seems negligible."[7] The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined that Class 3a lasers could cause injury to the eye if viewed directly for approximately 0.25 seconds, although it has cited evidence that exposure to visible lasers is "usually" limited by the blink reflex of the eye, which they have timed at just under 0.25 seconds.
in short, you merely have enough time to blink to avoid PERMANNENT DAMAGE to retina. And thousands of kids own these "toys".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety
"Infrared lasers are particularly hazardous, since the body's protective "blink reflex" response is triggered only by visible light. For example, some people exposed to high power Nd:YAG laser emitting invisible 1064 nm radiation, may not feel pain or notice immediate damage to their eyesight. A pop or click noise emanating from the eyeball may be the only indication that retinal damage has occurred i.e. the retina was heated to over 100 C resulting in localized explosive boiling accompanied by the immediate creation of a permanent blind spot.[2]"
Enjoy your vision, while it lasts.
laser, n.: Failed death ray.
That's even better than the forum captcha "irony" postings.
SIG: HUP
Fortunately I bought a green laser pointer from Dealextreme.com (claimed 50mW, probably 30mW) a while back. I was thinking of buying another as they won't be able to be imported again but one is enough considering the limited novelty value.
,as lasers are everywhere in CD and DVD drives and can be turned into pointers if you know which model to buy and have some basic electronics experience.
I wonder if it will affect the number of incidents of lasers shined into aircraft cabins
There seems to have been zero investigation as to why people are shining lasers at aircraft at airports, are they local residents angry at noise levels or people looking to (potentially) cause wanton destruction?
"going around and banning things because they are potentially unsafe is a slippery slope"
That's why kids in America have the privilege of growing up with fireworks (I haven't fact checked that) and kids in Australia only get to play around with sparklers (which can be turned into a roman candle if you have the patience).
Very logical but highly flawed.
Pilot: OMG someone just shot me in the eye with a laser pointer.
Flight Tower: that's ok because from your current coordinates we can calculate the area where the evil terrorist possibly is.
Pilot: ARRGH I'm coming in too hard.
Flight Tower: Shit what was that big bang?
No point in stopping the evil terrorist after he has killed people is there?
So, because of a few drunk drivers we are getting rid of automobiles and beer? Because of a few pedophiles we are banning children? Because of a few sick first-posters we are going to ban porn? Nice.
I would expect that kind of language at Denny's, but not here.
yes as Dr Karl says.
And the legal solution to that is not to ban people from having arms, but to make hitting someone's face illegal.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
>>>"Also sounds pointless, since the President isn't bound by Congressional Resolutions."
You know that saying about "assuming" things? Yeah, well you're guilty of it. (wink). John Quincy Adams was a Congressman at the time (not president), and therefore forbidden from introducing legislation to curb or lesson slavery. The Southern "slave power" had effectively taken control of Congress and forbidden free speech.
>>>"They had Free Speech too, and could use it to shout down people they disagree with"
Disagree. In a civil society, you show people the same courtesy you expect to receive. i.e. You shut your mouth and listen, just as they patiently listened to your ideas one hour earlier. To allow yourself freedom to speak, while denying others, is dishonorable.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
I don't know that one has been released, try google news? My post was just a personal observation on how it's been reported so far.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Yes. "It is difficult to find them" is not reason to burn the Bill of Rights and start searching homes for terrorists, or wire-tapping phones to catch grafters, or outlaw alcohol to stop drunk driving.
Hire more police, monitor the airport terminals for suspicious persons, and take them down when you see the flashing lasers toward airplanes.
As for "why do people need powerful lasers"? Well, I use them in my model-making to quickly & easily slice wood into pieces. If I lived in Australia, I'd probably get arrested for that act.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
I wonder if business execs and office people have to under go a thorough background check in order to buy laser pointers. After all we do not want lasers bouncing off of white boards and inadvertently bringing down a 757.
Good point.
And don't forget to ban those safety razors (after all, they might be used by a terrorist to puncture airplane tires & cause an accident). Let's turn Australia into a police state like 1984, where people are not allowed to own anything (for they might be misused by terrorists). Good solution. Bravo.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
Is it possible to have filters over the wind screens to protect against this, without interfering with normal operation of the vehicle?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
There are plans on the internet for building CO2 Lasers that can burn a hole in a piece of wood that appear to be easier to build, and with much less equipment and money than would be required for building a gun.
A CO2 laser would be easy to transport with a van, where someone could wait for their intended target to exit a building.
Since the ccds used in webcams can see infrared light, a low powered infrared laser could be used to plant a dot on the eyeballs of the target from across the street. The ccd camera mounted on the sights would see the dot, and the nefarious operator could then push a button to send a brief, much more powerful pulse from the CO2 laser to blind the target permanently. Since CO2 lasers output infrared light, the source of the attack would be invisible and silent and not give themselves away. They could wait a minute or so before leisurely driving away.
I'm suprised technology hasn't been used much before by nutjobs, criminals, and wacko groups to carry out dastardly deeds in furtherance of their evil agendas and schemes.
Webcams plus wi-fi cards = remote control robots for cheap. How come someone hasn't driven a Dalek like creation into a bank with a companion bot powered by an electric wheelchair motor carrying a large plastic tub to conduct a robbery?
Here's a possible scenario: The 'Dalek' appears cute and anime-esque to gain entrance to the bank. It's name is Kill-gore. It's followed by a dog-bot ( the one with the big plastic money tub, decorated with 'dog-fur' and likewise cutsey. It's name is Cargo.
Both Kill-gore and Cargo are equipped with web-cams and are controlled via computers connected to the operator by wireless network cards. Possibly they use a local unsecured connection enabling the operator to sit at home and control them over the internet. More likely, they are set up as a lan, with the operator in a van close by. The bots have webcams to see with, and video appears on the operator's screen.
Kill-gore can speak. Voice scrambulation is used to disguise the operator's voice and also to give Kill-gore an menacing robotic tone. It's cutesy facial expression turns evil as well. It's 'eyebrows' turn downward and it's 'eyes' glow red. A gun pops out of the top of it's head, it's voice booms: "THIS IS A ROBBERY! I AM KILL-GORE. MY COMPANION IS CARGO. NOBODY MOVE OR YOU'RE ALL GOING TO BE BLOWN TO BITS!"
Just then two of Kill-gore's panels fall to the floor exposing many pounds of dynamite ringing the bot.
"I AM ARMED AND VERY DANGEROUS ALLOW ME TO DEMONSTRATE THE CONSEQUENCES OF NONCOMPLIANCE"
An apple shoots out of the top of Kill-gore's head and the gun tracks it and shoots it. Another ring shaped panel lifts exposing a ring of gun barrels. The barrels spin menacingly. The people notice that just above the gun barrels, on the robot are stationary 'eye shaped things'. The robot can see all around it.
"IF YOU COMPLY, THEN NOBODY WILL BE HURT. YOU, TELLER, APPROACH MY COMPANION Cargo OR DIE."
The gun trained on the nervous employee, she approaches Cargo.
Kill-gore says: "Inside, you will find a collar. If you do not place it around your neck, you will die, and I will select another to wear it. Your only chance to live is to fasten the collar around your neck."
She retrieves the collar from Cargo's hold and puts it on. A timer begins to count down from twenty minutes.
"The collar is a bomb. If the robbery goes off without a hitch, then it will not explode. You are now on our side. Please ensure everything goes smoothly."
Fill Cargo with money. Do not include any dye packs or other devices in the loot. If they go off, then so do you!"
The teller is assisted to open the big safe and get all the dough. Cargo is filled to the brim.
"Cargo will now exit with the money. When it reaches it's destination, you will all be free to go. If the money fails to arrive, then you all die!"
...
When they outlaw laser pointers, only outlaws will have laser pointers.
Laser Guided Bombs.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
...excessively bright lights(mine were 100w bulbs, max is 65)...excessive number...(I had six, although four of them were foglights)...I'd rather enjoy not going blind thanks to some dirtbag with a high powered laser.
The oncoming traffic felt the same way, too.If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Wow..they sure have mangled the freedoms and rights of Australians in the past 8 years. Gun rights? Gone. Now laser pointers?
It's happening everywhere. Well, let's just cut to the chase (or the future):
The US, UK, and Austrailia are combined into one giant country, locked down like a prison. Everyone is chipped, everything is monitored and tracked. You cannot own a gun or laser pointer, hell - you cannot even own a flashlight without registering it as only cops and burglers need them, and you're not a cop.
Matter of fact, you can't really own anything.
So you have applied for ownership of a car, which is a class c restricted motorized device?
Nope, don't think so Application denied - only criminals and party members use cars, they are quite potent weapons and very dangerous and since we care about keeping YOU safe above all else let me just point out some of the many uses of a 'car" -
You could run someone over-especially children.
You could use the car as a bomb and run it into government buildings, and we can't have that.
You could use it in your garage to gas yourself (that is, if we don't make it there in time to stop you once we've noticed you're spending an inordinate amount of time sitting in the garage in one place with an illegal motorized device running).
You could use it to try to leave the country; that would be unsafe, you could get in an accident or end up trying to live somewhere where there is no government to protect you, or one that won't protect you enough.
- So you can see, that we really do care - and we are, above all else: FAIR. DNA does not lie. We genotyped you AND your children and your wife and you all show a high propensity for independent thought, distrust of authority and suseptibility to disease. You children show possible criminal tendencies with a 20% liklihood of un-societal behavior. This is why you have been given a repetitive manufacturing job in the D-5 neighborhood and why your children will be educated at the government happy child camp.
Remember, safety and security above all else; without it, and without us - you have nothing!
- If you fail to stop him now, he may kill again, and
- Being stopped may help deter people who would do the same thing.
- The fear of being stopped (punished, killed) may prevent him from doing it in the first place.
Granted, I think that banning laser pointers is downright stupid, but there certainly is value in finding and punishing criminals (I realize that you said terrorists, but terrorists are generally criminals as well, and I'd rather not limit this to terrorists.)I guess the ideal justice system would use magic to stop people before they committed their crimes, but since we don't have precognition that works quite that well (and even if we did, that would be a serious minefield of issues) we'll have to stick with our reactive (instead of proactive) justice system.
They are not going to ban all laser pointers. They are going to ban laser pointers above Class 2; unless you have a good reason to have one (which includes astronomy). Lasers over Class 2 can cause permanent damage to your retina faster than your blink response can save you (by definition). Having spoken to police officers who had one shone at them in a helicopter by some dumb kid who didn't know any better I support the ban. There, I've said it. Let the abuse and "freedom" related ranting begin.
Sorry but can I have the other solution that would actually work?
Maybe take some of the useless "luggage screeners" and send them out to grab the laser felons.
We sealed the cockpit doors, so now they come through the windows.
Maybe we should put bigger lasers on the planes, and fire back. It shouldn't be hard to hit the person....they are giving us a beacon.
How to turn a flashlight into a handheld burning laser...
/. here: How To Turn a Mini Maglite Into a Laser.
Previously covered on
It seems so much... cooler, now that it is a weapon!
:-(
Too bad it can't obliterate assholes who want to lock us all up.
I preferred the "risky" world we lived in in the 90's. Life was worth the hazard.
More people STILL die on freeways than any "terrorist" action, but cars are still legal, and I can't bring shampoo on the plane.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
according to their mindset, that is actually a perfects solution. What they don't get is that making something illegal will not stop the problem. It hasn't worked for drugs, guns, prostitution, and it will certainly not stop any terrorist from obtaining a laser pointer. It will just make it hard to get. There is however a solution that's so simple, they might pee their pants because how ignorant they were. Make the pilots navigate based on the video feed of a camera rather than their windows. That way, they wont only be (nearly) impervious to blinding, but they will also have the advantage of the superior sight that the camera can give.
Help fight spam
Tell ya what, why don't you come over here and stand up to our government. Show us how it's done. But have a look at the Waco Texas stand off from the 90s first.
Your government doesn't seem to have the balls to stand up to our government either by the way.
"Doctor, it's not the voices I hear in MY head, but the voices I hear in YOUR head that really frighten me."
"Because of a few pedophiles we are banning children?"
Actually a better analogy there would probably be banning genetalia, to fight pedophiles.
"Doctor, it's not the voices I hear in MY head, but the voices I hear in YOUR head that really frighten me."
Does "I have a cat" count as a lawful reason? davidh
I can't say for certain that the parent was just being insightful not ignorant, but free speech zones are a travesty and anyone who cares about their rights ignores them completely. This country is my free speech zone and I refuse to acknowledge limitations placed on that to keep unpopular politicians from having to deal with the commoners.
Perth was actually founded by free men as well, but due to factors such as the harsh climate and distance between Perth and Albany, the settlers requested convict labour from England, leading to the Swan River Colony (as it was called) becoming a penal colony 20 years after its foundation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_Australia#British_settlements
Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
I can understand to an certain extent the worries that government and police authorities have about laser pointers, as they are often used by crime elements or by people just thinking they are funny.
Criminals often use them in the drug community, according to police officers I have talked to. It is not unheard of for an undercover agent to end up with a red dot on the side of his head that he cannot see, but the drug dealer CAN see, and is tipped off that it's a cop he is about to sell to.
And I know that they are used for much mischief in places. In Ocean City, MD, they were (at least back in the late 90's) outlawed, because during the firefighter conventions, the rowdy firefighters would use them on the cops. And ask any cop what he will do if he suddenly sees a red dot on his chest. Yep, dive for cover while pulling their weapon.
I see no reason to not allow their use indoors, though. When doing seminars on software use, it is VERY useful to point out which field on the screen you are referring to. I used one for that reason for years until someone stole it from a conference.
They also make the world's greatest cat toy. If you have a cat, buy one, and amuse yourself for hours making your feline chase that red dot everywhere. Some dogs really dig them, too. I had a lot of fun shining mine out the window and getting my neighbor's dog (with the owner's permission) to run in circles in the yard, and jump on the bricks of the garage.
The only problem with most laser pointers is that their range is insane. The fact that you can hit a cockpit of an airplane that is often more than a mile up makes them dangerous in the hands of the idiot.
You can't take the sky from me...
They can harass drivers with rocks.
They can harass drivers with sticks.
They can harass drivers with dog shit.
They can harass drivers with their own feces.
They can harass drivers with socks full of coins.
The problem is not the availability of lasers, but the willingness to misuse them.
You can use a knife as a weapon.
You can use a wrench as a weapon.
You can use a cricket bat as a weapon.
You can use a broom handle with nails innit as a weapon.
David could use a rock in a sling to kill a giant, you can make a sling out of your clothes.
You can't take the sky from me...
People ban items, even common items, in situations where those items can cause serious injury or even devastation. They do this not from fear so much as after deciding that real losses justify the loss of freedom. Blow up a shuttle from frozen o-rings and you end up banning flights when the weather is too cold.
Why do we do this? Because people have a tradition of passing along information to avoid harmful items and situations. That's how we came to be here--by passing the word about what berries to avoid and how to keep from taunting a cave bear.
Thus, you can't buy traditional fireworks in parts of the US where fire is a major concern. You can't take liquids or certain items on a plane. You can't take your lunch pail into the biology lab. You can't take a cigarette or lighter into a coal mine.
Pilots are an expensive resource that must be protected if we are to continue to fly our fat asses everywhere until oil runs out. It is in the public interest to keep pilots from going blind from lasers or heavy drinking.
Now, interestingly, Mythbusters showed us you CAN take a bull into a china shop, but I doubt you'll see a move to change zoning laws.
That's bullshit. Laser pointers have a few mW power (more powerful lasers are already regulated); they don't cause blindness even at short range, let alone at a distance of hundreds of feet when pointed at a moving plane with a pilot with normal blink reflexes. You really have to work hard to produce any kind of damage with a laser pointer.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html
Oh I didn't mean to come across ignorant, I disagree with them completely too. Luckily for me I live in the UK and the majority of protests in recent years have been let be as long as they remain peaceful. (Note I didn't say *all*)
My hunch is that most (if not all) of the 'laser pointer distracts pilot' stories are urban legends. The fact that the cite here points to a Wired piece is the first clue. I own several very high-powered lasers of various colors, and I can't imagine how I'd be able to make them visible to pilots in airplanes, either small planes or commercial jets. Certain kinds of helicopters may be an exception. I remember some of these incidents coming out in local news channels... one in Arizona several years back I think. The articles have always struck me a suspect.
A laser pen won't cause permanent damage to anyone's eyes. That's all tied to the energy level of the laser. A typical laser pen doesn't put out much energy -- certainly not enough to harm your eyes. At all. That warning? Superfluous. SOME lasers can blind you, but not the one you spent 5-10 bucks for that takes a single teeny tiny little battery. That thing couldn't melt an ice cube if it tried.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
It's not about saving us from ourselves. Its specifically about saving a couple of hundred other people (mainly in flying metal cylinders) from idiots who think doing this is clever. Remember, your right to flail your arms around like a madman end where my face begins.
It's against the law to point a laser into a pilots eyes/window of a plane. What they are doing is against the law already. How is adding another law going to change anything?
A lot of level III lasers are used in a common household device. Guess what it is?
Your common household DVD player. All someone has to do is pop the laser out, get a focusing lens and housing, and you've got that evil, evil weapon for use.
Gimme a fucking break. All that this will do is to give those pirates an excuse to steal our^Wyour movies over the intarwebs!
Signed, the MPAA
You nailed me good! Yah, I'd assumed that JQ's Presidency was the time period in question, since noone ever talks about his time in Congress. My bad.
Two things:
1) This is Congress you're talking about, NOT "a civil society". A Congressman beat another one to death with his walking stick on the Floor. Another was killed by a (are you ready for this?) thrown chair, when one of his congressional rivals got carried away.
2) I've never actually heard anyone suggest that "honourable" and "Congressman" belong in the same sentence. With the exception, of course, of Congressmen. Who seem to think that we actually believe their excuses for behaving like slime-lizards....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Folks, class 3 and 4 lasers can cause permanent eye injury. I work with lasers on a regular basis, and I observe strict safety precautions around anything marked class 3 or 4. Specifically, you don't freehand any optic (freehand --> jargon for manipulating an optic that isn't firmly mounted/bolted down) in a class 3/4 beam. Sale of these laser pointers, obviously marketed for presentation purposes (i.e. freehanding), is irresponsible and hazardous. You should see the wave of ducking and face-covering by an audience of spectroscopists as an absent-minded lecturer, using a green laser pointer, accidentally gestures across the audience with his finger still on the button.
I'm glad some government is finally regulating a dangerous product. If spectroscopists can't even use these laser pointers correctly, there's no hope for the technophobes in the business world. Granted, I'd prefer they go after the companies that make unsafe products than the unwitting masses that consume them, but I can't argue with the result.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
They are not actually banned if you have a lawful reason for having one. So if a university lecturer needed one to point to a diagram during a lecture, he/she would still be able to. If you are a raver wanting to flash one around at a party, that could arguably be a lawful reason for having one too.
What this law really means, as far as I can ascertain, is that it is illegal to use a laser pointer for nefarious purposes, like shining into pilots' eyes to annoy them, possibly endangering those on board.
As an Australian I would like to say this sounds pretty reasonable. We don't have a bill of rights, and if we did I doubt the right to put a planeload of people in danger would be in there.
If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
As for "why do people need powerful lasers"? Well, I use them in my model-making to quickly & easily slice wood into pieces. If I lived in Australia, I'd probably get arrested for that act.
I can't say for sure but you probably wouldn't. I'm an Australian and I wouldn't expect to get arrested for using a powerful laser in my own home (if I *had* a powerful laser that is).
The gun laws in Australia seem to have the spirit of "If you can justify using it (e.g. you own a farm, enjoy game shooting and/or are part of a gun club) and are willing to do the paperwork etc. then you can have one (just not an automatic kthxbai)"
It rarely pleases me to hear of further restrictions/control on what we can possess but when there's an opportunity for some drunk moron (of which we have plenty here in Oz) to put a bunch of people in danger we tend to be cautious.
-Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
Lol! The more I read I read this thread, the more I think mockery is the way to deal with gun crazy militia types.
Until we can ship them off to UN death camps in black helicopters that is. All hail the Jewluminati!
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Considering you can do far more damage with mirrors and sunlight they you can with any publicly available laser pointers. This just looks likes public showboating, politicians trying to show they are doing something for their salaries and perks. By the way, exactly how many accidents have been caused by errant laser pointers, thousands, hundreds, 'er' one ?
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I can't recall the last presentation where someone actually used one as anything other than a fidget-widget.
Get out of the classroom more often and hang with some engineers. Pointing out the corrosion on a sprinkler head, AC water drip source, cable chafing in the over head tray, etc are everyday uses for me. It's easier to point with a pocket pointer than carry a 12 foot pointer. Other uses include measuring cable tray sag and checking the slope on the drain lines on the AC units. There is a reason one leaks all the time, and it can be fixed, but you need to document it first.
The truth shall set you free!
Maybe you should get your events into the proper order so you can keep the in perspective.
The free speech zones where put up by democrats well before the terrorist threat became what they are played as today. The draconian wire tap laws have the premise that you are talking to a known or suspected terrorist or someone giving aid to one and at least one party of the call it to outside the country so that leave 99% of everyone out of the mix. The rest of what your saying is more or less ramblings based off misinterpretations of other events so unless your thinking of starting them in another country, I would say your off a little there.
And if you are saying lets start doing it in another country, you should mirror the premise in America just so only the uninformed wackos who think they got some inside scoop into nothing will object and not the really informed people.
So, you wouldn't mind turning one towards your eye and giving yourself a blast, right?
Your comment about melting ice-cubes is of course nonsense. The energy required for the phase-change from ice to water is quite surprisingly high, as you ought to know - I'm sure they teach that in school even nowadays. And the damage to the eyes is not because of the heat energy deposited, but because the nerve cells in your retina can't take the overload; same as with looking at the sun - the sun's light doesn't burn or overheat the nerve cells, but they make you blind none the less.
I agree. Satan knows why there is such stuff as 5mw Federal restriction on lasers exists in our country. Privately-owned guns allowed here, why over-5mw lasers prohibited on sale. China, such a non-liberal and old-fashioned country, even allow over 500mw lasers passing in and out! Of course, this regulation is fake. You can see hundreds of people toying with 150mw or 200mw laser pointers in the street.They just play it for fun. Who cares?! Forgive me for my bushtit. Because I have a bad experience from 5mw Federal restriction, though it may never happen to you in your lifetime. I bought a 150mw laser pointer from highlasers.com during the 3-15 period, and it was unfortunately held by our honored government. It freaked me out. It tortured me 3 days. I had even thought of killing myself for the money loss. So i asked highlasers.com for help. They are just great. They contacted the UPS at once and asked them to open a import license for me. you know, I was thus bailed out. I 'm carrying this over-5mw federal restriction laser every day, and never in trouble. By the way, this laser from highlasers.com is such a good tool, and i use it for cutting tapes and even lighting matches. I believe you will never be troubled by using it in a legal way, no matter what you're holding is 400mw green laser or other powerful ones.
Looks like you are upset that I might be prejudging an entire nation on the actions of it's government. Or perhaps you are just annoyed that I'm viewing your culture through the lens of my own?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I don't mind you having the view, just get it in the proper order. All too often I see people who are educated to the point that they think G.W. Bush started the free speech zones and the democrats will fix it when it was the democrats who actually started them. I see people who think the so called domestic spying is done on everyone in order to find out aunt betty's cookie recipe when the fact is that you have to be part of a relatively specific subset of people doing specific actions to even fly on their radar let alone be listened in one without a warrant.
These educated people go ape shit when I bring up simple things like the democrats started the free speech zones in 1988 and so on. Your rant made me assume that you where one of these educated people who are more or less brainwashed into ignorance for someone else's ulterior goals. My point was really to find out if you were outraged at the right people or if you were another clueless bat pimping the lines spouted by their controllers. If that is your idea of prejudging or viewing through your own lens, then you are blindly becoming a fool that is more or less a tool of the very machines your disliking.
So we have a device with little to no legitimate uses, and is used almost exclusively to commit crimes. Sounds like a good candidate for banning.
To be honest, I don't really care if it was the Democrats or the Republicans who brought it domestic spying, warrantless wiretaps or even something like extraordinary rendition. However, this does rather leave viewing things in the "proper order" a bit of a moot point. I have a more nuanced view than you might realise, and I'm not actually all that ill informed about American politics. For instance, I think I might well be in that small minority of people who have actually read the entirety of the USA PATRIOT Act and have a reasonable grasp of what it does.
I notice that you try to address the issues I noted. With regards to the free speech zones: again I say - who cares what political party brought them in! They are pretty obviously unconstitutional. As others have pointed out - the whole damn United States is a free speech zone! I'm sure there are better ways of protecting your President than silencing criticism. You believe that wiretaps laws are reasonable. That's fine, but in my opinion aspects of the provisions of Title II of the Patriot Act are fairly draconian. I don't think it's right to the FBI to access voicemail through a title III wiretap order as I tend to agree with James Dempsey & co. of EPIC that it violates the 4th Amendment's expectation that authorities can give probable cause before the search and seizure of a citizens property. There are other problems, which I don't really have the time or inclination to address as a response to your comment. You can look them up if you like, I documented many of the controversies in the Wikipedia USA PATRIOT Act article.
You haven't addressed my other points, instead you wave them off to be rambling. OK, but I fear my observations stand. I do think that you are missing the bigger points, which was that I was sarcastically responding to this comment, which I acknowledge was in itself made by a shit-stirring AC.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You joke, but some idiots have seriously proposed castrating pedophiles.
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. If she has breasts and the ability to produce babies, she's not a child anymore, is she? (runs away from the Chris Hansen fan club).
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
Now you can beat the crap out of the punk in the movie theater. It's self defense.
to use the /. "easy steps" method:
1) be a pilot
2) get the shits about being blinded by idiots messing around with lasers.
3) report it to the media
4) wait for them to whip up a frenzy and goad the government until they have to be seen to do *something*
5) profit!
In all seriousness this is of a deterrent value, and one that i do not like whatsoever. I may or may not have a laser, and if i did, there is no f*#&#ing way i would ever point it at a plane. I'm just not stupid or sadistic enough to try it out.
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
Thats assuming you can find a 110km/h zone. 110 zones are like hens teeth on that stretch of bitumen. If your not in a 110 zone when doing 110, you've got bigger problems, like say your head exploding for going 3km/h over the limit.... Oh wait, this isn't Victoria, so it's a lesser evil, barely...
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
It isn't as much of who as much as it is when and by who. And I don't remember the government endorsing the rendition programs. From my recollection, they were pretty pissed about it. It is just that one side wasn't going to throw the people who thought they were saving lives(and they might have been) out with the bath water in a mad attempt to get voted and play politics with the nations security.
Also, reading the patriot act doesn't necessarily mean that you understand it. As I can see, you got some stuff wrong about the Free Speech in your next paragraph which leads me to believe that you got some stuff wrong when reading the patriot act.
Your rights don't give you the right to impose on my rights. And yes, the constitution says that specifically. You are guaranteed free speech not a platform to launch your speech. You are guaranteed the ability to peaceably assemble to redress your grievances which stops being peaceful when you rob me of my time or money or ability to have the same free speech or break a law in your attempts to be heard. The courts already said so way back when Clinton was in office and pulled first free speech zone stunts.
Have you read the forth amendment? Is says your protected against unreasonable search and seizures. The laws and courts define what is and isn't reasonable. In this particular situation, they have said it is reasonable for the government to act a certain way with regard to certain people exhibiting certain behaviors and actions. If this was a uniform blanket no body is safe, I would agree. But we both know it isn't and we both know the limits apply the same as any tittle 3 tap.
I'm not to impressed with Wikipedia's coverage of the patriot act. It spouts opinions as facts and gives a slanted interpretation in the process. I'm not going to bother looking up which parts you are directly responsible for because it just isn't worth the time. I'm sure that there are some issues. Most of them, especially after looking at Wiki's rendition, are based out of ignorance and the inability to put two and two together. I find this fixated in news articles as well as sites like wikipedia but mostly on Internet forums.
It gets old after a while. I ran into a friend I haven't seen in a couple of years. He annoyed the hell
This is the sort of STUPIDITY that Australia has historically always been so brilliant at. I hate this country sometimes. Being Australian in times like these is an embarrassment. A dozen stupid pricks play thoughtless dangerous pranks with a harmless tool and the reaction is, "ooooh! it's a weapon! Ban it."
About as many people are murdered with household hammers each year as pilots are temporarily blinded by laser pointers, but do they ban hammers as weapons? New Zealand is looking good as a place to move to.
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
How exactly are they aiming this at pilots? It sounds like someone using something fairly sophisticated to have that accurate of an attack, unless they are right next to an airport or something. I mean, first, the pilots have a very minimal frontal view of the ground when they are way up in the air at cruising speeds, yes? Second, is it more a problem in Australia b/c there are less clouds (as in the problem people wouldn't be able to shoot it at jets hidden in clouds for various reasons). But if people are really doing this, I'd like them stopped in their tracks. Idea. Maybe they could equip laser guided missles to find the jerkies shooting the laser up. ;)