Slashdot Mirror
Electronic Warfare Insects Coming Soon
Mike writes "British defence giant BAE Systems is creating a series of tiny electronic spiders, insects and snakes that could become the eyes and ears of soldiers on the battlefield, helping to save thousands of lives, and they claim that prototypes could be on the front line by the end of the year. A fascinating development to be sure, but who thinks this won't be misused domestically for spying and evidence gathering?"
Included in the story is a link to a creepy little (scripted, rendered) demo video of these robots in action.
Ah, but who's life and money will be taken?
... without giving yourself away.
I can only imagine the possibilities of someoen dumping some bugs in an area and have a permanent observation of the majority of the population you want to keep your eyes on.
The Locusts of Borg will pwn you.
Big Brother knows who buys them.
That video that's mentioned is here. This technology still relies on wireless transmission, so who ever uses it must be in relative close proximity. So when deployed, if you notice them some how, you'll know someone is near by.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
I, for one, welcome our robotic, war-waging insectoid ov... aw, forget it.
I prefer my spiders to be 20ft tall and wielding giant laser canons of death.... Who needs a covert force when you can have one that kicks ass and takes names?
Yeah, right!
Plans for a robot that can crawl like a spider are 'well developed'
That's military-contractor-ese for "we drew you a picture..."
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Whats the damage?
"History is the realm of the true lie." A.Szerb
So does the military sue people who step on these things the way we step on eveyr other insect?
That all sounds real dandy, but battery life is the achilles heel: these bugs and critters are only going to last a few minutes. Real insects last longer because they have much more energy-efficient locomotion and control, they have efficient fuel cells, and they replenish their energy supplies constantly by feeding.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
..with a powerful EM blast!!!
It may just be that it is physically impossible to have privacy in the future. If that's the case, then we should accept it and start putting into place the mechanisms to make sure that "transparency" is a two-way street, which is the best case scenario in that case.
Link to the Wikipedia article on his ideas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society
expandfairuse.org
"I thought soldiers were on a battlefield precisely to take as many lives as they could..."
No. If a nuclear armed nation wanted to take as many lives as possible, none of their soldiers would be on the battle-field.
Creative Demolition
The idea is that they'll take out money and use it to take enemy lives instead of friendly ones. I think your cynicism meter needs adjusting.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
After seeing Iron Man this morning (in before "slashvertisement) I couldn't help but picture a bald version of The Dude reading this summary to the press.
"You know why you do not see me styling wit my homies? Because I have no homies!!" -Mojo Jojo
http://www.brohauns.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3
isnt that how the Gatling gun was pitched?
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
How about instead of making a handwavy generalization you name some wars that were started by an incident that was bilateral in its fakeness.
I mean, WWII would have been so much less of a problem if the Third Reich hadn't invaded Europe, somebody should have explained that to them so that the world could have avoided all that fighting.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
They could drop a bunch of repeaters in the area as well with the bugs, disguised as who knows what, a pile of dog crap, pine cones, whatever. The humans don't have to be right close by with wireless. They fly those predator attack drones from across the planet.
SPIDERS and
INSECTS and
SNAKES...
Oh My!
I, for one, welcome our giant insect overlords.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
> I thought soldiers were on a battlefield precisely to take as many lives as
> they could...
They are usually there to take and hold territory by any means necessary. If the enemy resists somebody gets killed but if they run away or surrender that works too.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Makes an excellent repellent against electronic insects. Millions of dollars against a 30$ part from the microwave you buy at wall mart.
Reason #532 to build a Faraday Cage in my house along with a small home-brew EMP emitter.
Well then time to build myself an EMP, teflon coat my house(bugs can not climb teflon), rig up a positive pressure airlock system, and put really bright lights on my house(to pwn their tiny cameras).
The example you give is actually one that answers the parent post. In order to catalyse WW2 Germany faked an incident of Polish incursion.
Why start so big. I'll believe that you can stop people from doing bad things to each other when you head up a way to make it work even on a small scale. How about just one city. You figure out a way to get, say, New York to have no human on human violence without any police force at all, and then we can talk.
That wasn't bilateral fakery. The aggressor is looking for a reason to go to war and finds one, but there isn't a whole lot the other side can do about that, which is why there is often a good guy in a given war.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
If this technology ever does prove to save lives on the battlefield, it would only be the lives of the "good guys". The lives of the opposing side would be destroyed with ever-increasing efficiency. Of course, if you believe that the foes that Britain will face in the foreseeable future are intrinsically evil and deserve to be destroyed with ever-increasing efficiency, then this is fine. If you believe that destroying lives full-stop with ever-increasing efficiency is ok, that this is fine. Another way to help save thousands of lives on the battlefield would be not illegally invade sovereign countries with thinly-veiled justifications designed to cover up one's own economic and emperial ambitions.
"WWII would have been so much less of a problem if the Third Reich hadn't invaded Europe..."
Why is it that whenever someone decries war, WWII seems to be the only war mentioned in response? Was that the last war we ever had?
I am not sure what you mean by "bilateral in its fakeness", but to respond to your question, have you heard of the 2nd Gulf of Tonkin incident, a fake incident which Lyndon Johnson used as justification for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution escalating American involvement in the Vietnam War without need for a declaration of war? This was the Vietnam equivalent of the Iraq 'use of force' resolution which Bush used to start the Iraq war.
They can try to bug me.I have several rather low tech counter-measures.
1. I have cats that eat bugs or will roll them under the refrigerator.
2. I have Raid ant traps.
3. I have natural spiders that will capture the cyber bugs.
4. I have toddlers who have nothing better to do but patrol for weird things like that.
5. I have wireless internet; loose wires in PCs, cable TV, lighting; toys; baby monitors; my house was built by the Wal-mart of home builders and cordless phone on the fritz. I have to go outside 10 feet from my house to talk on a cell phone. I am lucky to get clear FM radio.
The bugs may work in less developed areas, but they will not be able to stand up to the food web, shoddy craftsmanship, and a toddlers instinct to put everything in its mouth.
Furthermore, a soldier's role on the battlefield is to achieve an objective. In general, this object involves removing the enemy. The general way to do so is to either kill them, or make them surrender/give up. Sometimes the situation is such that by killing a few selective people, you can make the group give up. Other times, you just have to kill everything coming at you, cause it's the only way. In all cases, better intel means less risk for the grunts. Sure, its not exactly fair. But that's not really the point of war is it?
heh, subtle; nice.
I am a lot less concerned about foreign/military uses for this tech and a lot more concerned with domestic/police use. Does any of us doubt that this will eventually trickle down to the corrupt stupid thug/bullies known as the police? A scary thought. Although I don't think the first generation of mobile surveillance "bugs" are going to be a threat indoors, I do think it will happen eventually.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
The op was decrying war as something that never had to happen, if only we all just got along. WWII is a sterling example of a war that happened because the other side didn't want to get along. The point is that while it is unfortunate that there are aggressors that are willing to go to war, it isn't stupid or war mongering to defend yourself from an aggressor, it is necessary.
The snarky reason why Tonkin and Vietnam and Iraq don't get mentioned is that they aren't wars, but the real reason is that they aren't nearly as morally unambiguous as WWII was, especially after the extent of the crimes against humanity was uncovered.
What it comes down to is that one unjust war doesn't prove that all war is unjust.
The point about the fake incidents not being bilateral is that side B can't do a whole lot about the actions of side A (other than fight back) once side A starts rolling in tanks.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
so, lemme get this straight - on a battlefield where, ostensibly, some kind o f a battle is going on, where people are murdering each other in cold blood, these little magical toys are going to prevent thousands of people from dying, in a battle, where people are murdering each other in cold blood . Riiiiiight. Let's unpack the happy ass bullshit and get to the core: these will be implemented in order to protect and project the interests of the EMPIRE (American, Chinese, Russian, whatever) that has the money to build these things. Saving LIVES by PREVENTING DEATHS is not part of the equation. That's the province of clever diplomacy.
And the best part? I'm sure some locals who are finding these expensive little toys invading their resource rich homeland will develop a cheap bug zapper that costs $8 to build and can take out thousands of them at a go.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
This should definitely revive his career.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Bullhockey.
Tell THIS girl that she wasn't in a war zone.
Calling it "a police action", "counter-insurgency", or BY any other marginally more "pleasant" euphemism does NOT change the rules of the game.
It's war, plain and simple. Kill them before they have a chance to kill you. Period.
...unless you want to tell me the name really DID change to "Freedom Fries". :P
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
They'll be easy to step on!
Nice job reading half the sentence and getting upset about it. Notice the next part of the sentence where I said "the real reason"? That implies that I don't believe that they weren't/aren't wars.
Maybe look up 'snark':
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snark
(That's not a real dictionary, but the definitions given there are accurate regarding my use of the word)
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Do you suppose a decent spark-gap transmitter would would fry these little bugs like mosquitos on a bug-zapper?
I can think of a few evil ways to hose up these little nuisances. Many ways to jam their transmissions, being so low-power, and even more to EMP them.
Nothing that wouldn't run for an hour or so on some D-cells, and a few days on an old worn-out car battery.
I, for one, welcome our insectoid-surveillance wannbe overlords. Bring it on, six-legs!
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
They have to work all the bugs in first.
Thankyouenjoytheveal!
They don't choose the miserable wars they participate in. Don't confuse the political decision to go to war with the military decisions about how to carry it out.
This technology looks really cool(in a fairly creepy sort of way). The versions that they are currently proposing look more or less biomorphic spins on the "RC car with a camera" concept; but should still be useful. Even more interesting, though, will be the possibilities with smaller, more insectlike, mechanisms(which may well end up being cyborgs, not robots. Bugs are already good at what they do, much better than robots are, and DARPA is already playing with cybugs in the lab). Think of the mosquito, for instance. Those little guys essentially spend their lives following subtle chemical gradients to find their food sources and then swarm around them. Modify the chemical gradients they care about, dump a whole lot of them out of a plane, and you have a distributed sensor swarm that'll look for just about anything that has a scent.
The prospect that makes me nervous is what we'll do when we want to go beyond recon/search/surveillance type roles. Conventional weapons aren't going to scale down all that well. Chemical and biological weapons will. This will present an unseemly temptation. Being able to tailor lethally armed cybugs to hunt chemical traces and kill whatever turns up would be very useful. Trying to find that IED factory? Druggies blending into the crowd? Russian ambassador wearing a ghastly brand of aftershave? Actually doing any of this, though, is going really, really far into unpleasant territory. Very Unit 731.
But spreading limits the bandwidth of a signal and would make high def video a challenge.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Bad rationale, snarky or not.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
I'll bet there's far more military espionage use being planned. Make a version that uses solar power and has small enough satellite comm chips inside. Even better, design it to allow recharging from electric outlets (which it can connect to at night). Let them lose on a country's borders, millions of them. If they cost a $1000 each, a million bots will constitute a 1 bil $ project. Chump change. They converge on the cities with preprogrammed maps, then start communicating only after they infiltrate major government buildings, intelligence facitilies, military research, terrorist caves...etc.
This (and the butterfly mentioned in TFA) is ultimate espionage. The idea is so cool that I am forced to momentarily disregard big brother threats from the Orwellian-minded.
I hate to burst your bubble, but there are actually "bad people" out there. However, those that are deemed "bad guys" are generally not always so. And those doing the "deeming" are not always good guys either.
For example, the countries whose people can afford this kind of hardware are not countries that have fought any defensive wars in any recent history (past 50 years or so). All wars fought by rich countries are fought for offense, conquest, loot, plunder, and unofficially, rape. Yeah, it might not be penis and vagina rape anymore, but as anyone who has had his or her home vandalized by uninvited thugs, the feeling of violation is quite tangible. It is always legitimate to exterminate aggressors, but how many of those clamoring for more hardware to "save lives" are merely saving the lives of those who kill on demand, rather than out of necessity?
Take Vietnam... what changed? What did "we" accomplish there? A slow surrender to the Cong instead of simply letting them do what they were going to? Does anyone truly believe that anything at all OTHER than that would've been accomplished? For a so called "christian" nation, the vast majorities of "god fearing Christians" seem to miss the fact that we cannot go and tamper with other people's homes, until we have set our OWN homes in order. Judging by the vast foreclosures out there, I doubt that the majority even HAVE their own houses anymore, or ever did. Guess those "god fearing Christians" have missed that lovely part about "neither borrower, nor lender be." Even their very money supplies are based on borrowing money into existence. Debt as money. Something that their so called "Christian faith" treats with disdain... debt.. and usury (interest) is seen as a great and wonderful thing.
Oh well, they just believe what the priest caste tells them to, not those pesky bits that contrasted to their actual way of life would make little sense.
Onto the topic of this subject. These defense companies only serve two purposes. To construct tools that will be used by various governments and related agencies to oppress their own populaces, and of course, to help said governments borrow their relative populaces into absolute poverty. See, most of this hardware costs a LOT of money, even when it turns out to be worthless, useless, obsolete, or unjustified, and governments spend money without really looking at ROI. There is little ROI in government operations. All it is, is plain and simple spending. Aimless, pointless and limitless.
Until you look at the greater backdrop, that the money must be spent into existence and that friends of the rulers must be the first to receive its value, before its issuance can devalue the existing stock of debt based currency. It is brilliant, in reality, and it would even be admirable, if it weren't such a sad state of affairs.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-- Sun Tzu
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
This reminds me of that movie Runaway. The hypodermic robot spiders dripping with acid used to give me awful dreams as a kid.
I want my! I want my! I want my Eee PC!
...couldn't these be used in rescue situations too?
For example when a building collapses in an earthquake. Send in an small army of the creepy crawlies to listen for and pinpoint survivors. Make rescue efforts much faster and efficient. Also depending on how they are set up, they could let rescue workers know which areas aren't safe / stable to be digging around in.
You can learn a lot about a person if you just take the time to inject them with sodium pentathol
Put a few super magnets under the doors and around the windows, and let's see how these buggers would come in..
The gigantic garden spider that lives under my deck would be SO pissed off at these things.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Sounds more like a combination of The Terminator and various other sci-fi sci-fan where the machines take over, don't you think? Who are the idiots who keep promoting these ideas? Whoever they are they sure as hell ought to be kept out of responsible positions and away from resources. Hmmm, that would render the military and the makers unemployed i guess. Hey, weird idea, maybe they could declare war on Climate Change and Global Dimming and Pollution - classic fully armed raids on polluters; missiles that send clean air and refreshed ozone into the sky.
are you saying my comment was lame? =(
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
How could a device which is made for war safe lifes? Only a device made for ending or preventing wars would be able to save lifes, but I don't think that such a device is ever invented. And it doesn't produce money, doesn't it? ;-)
nomike
>> Researchers hope they will eventually create machines that can fly like a butterfly
Or you just buy a wowwee dragonfly in a store for $49,99
Sure, works well... :)
Just to let you know, I am developing a video that shows robots predicting the outcome of the stock market. Its gonna be cool... Where do I go to get VC?
Due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was swallowed by a small dog.
In seriousness, I have a great and very cheap countermeasure against electronic insects, snakes, mice, etc.: cats. DARPA may spend billions developing these tiny surveillance critters, but nature has spent billions of years evolving an efficient hunter to eat them.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
We have the ability to remote control flies and rats and we can power devices from blood, bacteria,
and sugar. So are we that far from making a remote-controlled biologically-powered recording device embedded in an insect or small animal? Seems like all the pieces are there.
because if you know there's nothing going on, you don't attack (Unless you want deliberate provocation.)
And besides, just because SIDE A sends the little critters in, doesn't mean that SIDES B, C and D aren't sending in buggies of their own.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
May I ask -- what is the threat you are preparing against to? China. Not fighting China, just deterring it.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
...that whenever new military technologies are discussed, that old line 'save thousands of lives' comes up? Seems a bit incongruous. Perhaps it would be better to say that the tech will 'enable them to kill less innocent civilians?'
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Tell THIS girl [wikipedia.org] that she wasn't in a war zone.
Thank you for posting this. I've always wondered who this girl was, and what happened to her. You just made my day.
[End Of Line]