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China's Cyberwar Against India
An anonymous reader writes "China's cyber warfare army is marching on, and India is suffering silently. Over the past one and a half years, officials said, China has mounted almost daily attacks on Indian computer networks, both government and private, showing its intent and capability."
or War? Typo in the heading :)
Cyberwaar, what is it good foor?
Anyone know what the "US spy incident" is that is mentioned at the end of the article?
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Of all the countries that could get attacked, you think that India could defend itself. I'm not being a troll here. They've done really well in the IT sector and they've got some pretty smart people there, so say the least.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Is this Chinese government or botnets on Chinese computers?
My server gets nailed daily from China but I doubt their government knows anything about it so I'm finding these stories a bit paranoid.
I wonder how this waar will develop in the coming months, will it lead to real hostilities or just peter out? open hostilities, akin to waar, should be taken seriously. I am beginning to wonder if cyber space is going to be the battle ground where there are very few real consequences and as such hostilities there escalate at an alarming rate.
Whaat's aa waar?
The Chinese stopped being communists in everything but name twenty years ago. Heck, they don't even have a social saftey net worth talking about. That is why everyone in china puts so much pressure on their kids to succeed. In China, your kid's job is your pension. America is more "communist" than China.Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Seriously, one would think that the substantial investment in IT support and consulting in India would result in a national capability to defend itself against this kind of stuff...
dave
According to sources in the government, Chinese hackers are acknowledged experts in setting up BOTS. A BOT is a parasite program embedded in a network, which hijacks the network and makes other computers act according to its wishes, which, in turn, are controlled by "external" forces.
BOTS? Really? As in BOTnets? Shows how much of a CLUE the journalist who wrote this has.
You just got troll'd!
They know a good portion of our information is likely stored in databases in India. What better way
to obtain that information than to attack a third party with less defenses.
Got Code?
not communist
north korea is officially called "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". north korea is also just about the least democratic country in the world. meaning: you shouldn't trust official names
at one time, yes, china was a communist country that practiced communist ideology. that was a long time ago. it is more exact today to say the china is perhaps the most capitalist country in the world, rivalling the gilded ages of victorian times in the usa, when capitalism ran amok with very few legal constraints. such that you had monopolies, child labor, pinkerton gangs hobbling the kneecaps of unionists, etc back then in the usa. now in china you have pretty much the same thing. in china now there are multibillionaires and starving peasants on a scale of ultrarich cities versus grueling impoverished countryside like nowhere else except perhaps the rich gulf arab oil states
china is not a worker's paradise anymore, it is a capitalist's paradise, because there are no pesky democratic impulses in the political sphere to interfere with the pure unadulterated pursuit of the almighty buck. its pure autocracy, technocracy, pure capitalism. china is one giant corporation now
that the country is officially run by something called the "Communist Party of China" is just sort of a cosmic ironic joke at this point
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's also been said (something like) China went straight from communism to corporatism, bypassing democracy.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
...ban Chinese IPs on their routers?
It may help India reject the Swiss Cheese of Microsoft products in favour of a more solid infrastructure.
you had me at #!
ALMOST daily? Phew, I feel relieved now. ;)
Really though, I think China is just trying to take down the U.S. by removing all of our tech support.
-Or- these attacks are really from U.S. unions trying to combat outsourcing.
There have been a lot of these Chinese "cyber attack" articles recently, but as far as I can tell, all of them are simply attributing attacks from Chinese IP addresses as "attacks by China". China now has surpassed the US in internet usage in absolute numbers, and many (if not most) of the networked computers in China are running unpatched versions of Windows XP, making them the ideal breeding ground for Botnets (just take a look at your router logs). But are these Botnets actually being controlled by people in China? If the SPAM spewed out by these Botnets is any indication, then the answer is a resounding no.
If this were an operation mounted by the Chinese government, surely it would be done in secret. After all, you wouldn't want the winds political will to blow against you, especially when you're going to be hosting the Olympics, let alone the possible trade embargos and such. In fact, if it were a government op, then wouldn't the attack seem to come from anywhere BUT china (or, mostly from outside, with a few deniable inside sources)?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
They know full well they're on their way to being the next super power and everyone relies on them for pretty much everything. So I don't think the government really cares what others think about their activities.
AFAIR (as far as I remember) that attack on Estonia has been performed by one guy. Yes, some servers used in the attack were based in Russia. Yes, a lot of zombies around the world has been used in the attack. And yes this guy's nationality was Russian, but the guy has been citizen of Estonia.
But abovementioned officials may have far more information. Maybe the guy was a citizen of Estonia but secretly employed by his mother Russia. Who knows?
hany
if you view china itself as one giant corporation, and the world as the marketplace, you can call it capitalism. just shift the scope of what you are talking about from how things work inside china to how china relates to the world
how things work inside china is police state: you have no rights to expression, to vote, to the press, or anything other than work. every aspect of your media is controlled by the government, every aspect of your expression is censored and unapproved expression (talking ill of your government, oppressed minorities, or even just pornography places you at the jeopardy of being punished)
so this is indeed not capitalism. it is merely life inside the corporate structure. a corporation exists within a captalist framework, but life INSIDE the corporation, how things work inside the machine, are not capitalistic, they are autocratic, an oligarchy (i called china an autocracy, it would be more accurate to call it an oligarchy: it is not run by one grumpy old man, but a gang of grumpy old men)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I work in Computer Lab in a German University, and we get multiple brute force attacks a day from Chinese hosts. Does that mean that China is secretly mapping the network infrastructure of the German education system? I think not. IMO TFA is rather due to a deeply entrenched fear of spies and espionage in the Indian society, also the collective trauma of being hated by all neighbouring countries.
Not everyone who commits a crime or act of aggression is a fucking terrorist. Just cause you use the internet to carry out a malicious act does not make you a "CYBER TERRORIST". If I drive my car down the road like an asshole it doesn't make me a vehicular terrorist. This language has been used to promote an endless conflict used to justify indefinite wartime power. Makes me feel we are just as programmed as many of the chinese.
They all want to go to USA :)
Imagine your Chinese friend asking for chopsticks to eat spaghetti in an Italian restaurant, or sweet and sour sauce for chicken nuggets in a McDonald's. I think you'll say 'you can't do that' too. It is surprising you go to another country and complain about local customs. I suggest you try to be more open and less prejudiced while you're in other countries, and life will be much more enjoyable.
additionally im spiritualist, kinda a neo hippie. but chinese are annoying me with all kinds of aggression they are practicing.
Kewel. It's good to know that. I can now relax knowing that you are not a racist but are a spiritualist kinda a neo hippie. Thanks.
I, on the other hand, think tuna are evil.
If I drive my car down the road like an asshole it doesn't make me a vehicular terrorist.
Are you the bleeding vehicular terrorist who tried to sideswipe me coming up to the tollbooth on the beltway last week?
OK, all joking aside... I agree that terms like "terrorist" are being abused, though really it's the word "war" that's the problem. The US government declares a "war on" something vague and undefiniable, and all of a sudden the constitution is tossed out of the window. Whether the opponents are labeled "terrorists" or "drug lords" the result is the same.
On the other hand, when a country engages in aggression within the borders of another country during peacetime. Didn't that used to be called an act of war? What do you do about it short of declaring war? Does it matter which of the two countries is more pro-USA?
The result is that we are in a "state of war" all the time, but the President doesn't have to go cap-in-hand to Congress for each piddling little not-really-an-invasion. I don't see that as a good thing, and it's a much bigger problem than one of the particular abuses of language that are being used to justify it.
I'm tempted to say they're raping the language but of course that's just more of the same kind of verbal warfare that... hmmm... there I go again...
On the gripping hand, I'm not the CiC of the US armed forces.
Americans would not spew out spam that said to increase your size, that you have to eat deer or tiger penis. So, nope, not ours.
Nor would we spew out spam that says
Want to increase your size? Da, of course your girlfriends wants you to. You must bath in Lake Bakal for that
So again not ours.
No, we would spit spam that says that you must buy from McDonalds or Burger King. Oh Damn, that is our spam.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The writer of the article also refers to the Estonian Cyberattack:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/17/1248215&tid=172
He states it was a targetted attack by the Russian government, but fails to mention that a 20 year old student was fined for the whole affair:
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/25/0120221
Not saying that it wasn't the russian government, it would have been easy to create a scapegoat for them, but not mentioning this in the article makes it very easy to doubt if the author actually considered if this was really a government run attack or just some Chinese individual being pissed off with India.
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
Can we presume that the Western/democratic world, which owns most of the international backbone, has in place the option of simply dropping all of China from the Internet in the case of a crisis?
Sure, they have agents abroad who could trigger a botnet. Still, shouldn't any concerted use of the Internet in warfare be met by a total severance of the nation making that use from the Internet, not just in the short term, but forever?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Then you seem to present the facts of being spiritualist and neo-hippie as a way of proving you have no prejudices against Chinese people. Do you consider Chinese people to be spiritualist and neo-hippie?
You also assign the behavior of a government to all the people that only share the geographical location of their birth. Are you saying that all Chinese people are committing acts of aggression?
If I were you, I'd seriously consider my thinking patterns.
I know dude, I can feel the bad vibes from here...totally bumming me out man
The Chinese stopped being communists in everything but name twenty years ago. Heck, they don't even have a social saftey net worth talking about. That is why everyone in china puts so much pressure on their kids to succeed. In China, your kid's job is your pension. America is more "communist" than China. Well, except for the part where most businesses are either owned by the government, the party, or by relatives of the top party officials.Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
I don't know why it doesn't bug any of y'all that anytime someone starts a communist country it invariably degenerates into something all the leftists say looks like fascism. Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
(currently testing something about signatures here)
I would guess that he meant to say China, and not Chinese. But yeah, I know how you feel. I get tired of ppl referring to Americans, the ppl, vs. America, our current gov (and more appropriately, our current president).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
i would modify your comment to say that china is not a capitalist country on the INSIDE, but it is very much a capitalist country in how it relates to the wider world: china is one giant corporation
look at your average corporation: on the inside of the corporation it is run like an autocracy, or an oligarchy, just liek china is. the average corporation exists within a capitalist framework, but capitalism has nothing to do with how the corporation functions on the inside
and so it is with china: view china as one giant corporation, and you understand capitalism's true relationship to china
i'm just riffing on my previous comment, btw:
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=543286&cid=23299960
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
of the trollocracy ;-)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Well, it's one thing if the Italian restaurant doesn't have chopsticks at all. But if the Chinese restaurant has Dish A with lemon, and Dish B without lemon, and you order Dish B but ask them to add lemon, and they say "we can't do that", it's a bit more odd.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Communism - by it's sheer paper definition - is virtually impossible on a large scale. You still need leaders to make things move. Said leaders want to stay leaders. Boom - no more Communism.
Personally, I subscribe to the line of thinking that every political organization - regardless of the initial system - inevitably becomes an oligarchy. It's not only happened in China, but it's happened in Russia and the United States as well.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
That's how it's supposed to work, with the nation representing the population. But I agree, nationalism is old hat.
That's really silly of China. I'm sure if China asked decently, India will simply hand over all the porn without much of a hassle!
Why is it communism should go through democracy to get to corporatism? You could just as easily say the United States went from democracy to corporatism, bypassing communism.
Sorry to nitpick. I'm just glad to hear someone else talking about China and fascism. Because between the US and China we're looking at a fascist global power struggle that would make Eric Blair and Aldous Huxley's heads spin.
I think u totally missed the point ur parent tried to make by giving that example. He was trying to say that "common sense is very uncommon in common Chinese". Got it? If not yet, read ur parent properly with open mind once again.
I think a lot of people like to talk about the Chinese as "brainwashed" when they're really just rabidly nationalist. All of these pro-Beijing people at the Olympic torch runs aren't there because the government activated a chip implanted in their brains, they're responding to what they see as the West ganging up on their country. China is finally coming into their own on the world stage, and they're still very defensive from years of being behind and being walked on. I don't know if it's the government or just the echo chamber that cultivates this view, but it seems very pervasive, and they try to tie these Tibet protests to decades-old colonialism.
I can't say anything about your "can't change the recipe" anecdote, but I think maybe that just fit into your pre-existing view of China. The West has its narrative of Chinese people being brainwashed servants of their government, incapable of self-examination. China has its narrative of the rest of the world ganging up on them and trying to hold them back, some version of "The Man" keeping them down. Neither one is true, and the real truth must be somewhere in the middle.
He does claim some strong accusations but the post is not a troll. He is kinda right, if you want to make the Chinese act less threatening stop giving them power. Until you do that, talking about it isn't going to solve anything. His reference to the Nazi and the Jews isn't racist, he's just trying to give an example.
ics
Well,
At least in America, we vote for our current administration, where are the Chinese do not get that luxury.
Just saying, that in a Democracy, such as the US, it is more appropriate to refer to things the government does, as the will of the people. Because well, the majority of people who vote, voted that administration in. Where as, in places like China, the will of the people is no represented by the Government.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
It's a Times of India article. Your most reliable source of news in India is the The Hindu. Don't let it's name throw you off - the paper is more reliable than the other English dailies in the country and prides itself on reporting news as close as it gets.
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
Well, given that, in communism, the workers are the ones running things, it does make it exceedingly unlikely.
Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
Or maybe it just proves that communism, as a pure idiology, doesn't work in the real world (kinda like pure, free-market capitalism), devolving into *other* forms of government, such as fascism or totalitarianism. But that doesn't change the fact that China is *not* a communist state, based on the definition of the term "communism".
Where as, in places like China, the will of the people is no represented by the Government.
Are you sure? If so who's fault is it that the Chinese Govt. doesn't represent the will of the people?
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
Because of the unique (hopefully) situation of 9/11, W. has been able to hide a great deal from the public and even congress. As such, it is hard to say that W. represents the will of the ppl, when the vast majority do not know what is really going on. Of course, you can argue that is the way we operate all the time, but I doubt that it is has been that way since at least Nixon.
In fact, I have been amazed that with all this "open" questions being asked of candidates over the news service, that we are not seeing questions about openess. In particular, W. shut down our seeing the 20 year opening of past presidents, starting with reagan. It specifically allowed the family the ability to hide any number of issues. While I do not believe that we should have information about a president's personal life, I do think that we are owed ALL of the information that relates to how a pres. worked. For example, it would be useful to know what reagan knew about October surprise as well as Iran-Contra and hiding of that information. Supposedly Obama has said that he will go after W. for his destroying items (emails in particular) and will presumably ungag Sibel Edmunds to some degree, but will he allow us to see how reagan, Poppa Bush, and Clinton ran their presidencies? Sadly, I seriously doubt that Clinton will open up that much as it could boomerang back on her personally, even though it is the right thing to do. W. is a special case in that he has hid more information than even Nixon who was absolutely paranoid about information leaks.
Currently, I see more similaries and less difference between China's gov and W's, except that China has competent ppl.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
While, I am sure that the Chinese Government occasionally represents the will of the people, having a 1 party system, means that the people are not offered the chance to choose leaders with different ideological belief then the current administration. So, I'd say it is a fair assessment that the current government does not represent the will of the people.
:-).
AS for fault, that is deviating from the conversation, but I'll indulge you
Hmm.. could start with Japan, for weakening the strength of the previous government during WWII, which left the country too weak to protect itself against the Communist party.
You could blame the US for not coming to the aid of the Chinese people when they needed it during the end of WWII.
You could blame the world for continuing to do business with the Chinese government, instead of forcing political change through embargoes buy crushing their economic growth.
But, the obvious and best group to blame is the Chinese themselves, for allowing themselves to be Governed by a one party system. You could take the belief that because they allow the current Government to exist, that the current Government is doing what it does, at the will of the people.
But these are all opinions.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
where there are less paranoid schizophrenic twits constantly obsessing with Them(tm), who control all minds by controlling all media secretly in the background
but ignore me dude. i'm obviously a neocon apologist agent of the illumnati come to cast aspersions on your blindingly keen insights into our contemporary media landscape
don't let me interfere with your cutting grasp of the current state of the secret world domination conspiracy
they've fooled everyone but YOU! YOU ALONE KNOW THE TRUTH. BUT NOW THEY ARE COMING FOR YOU. YOU ARE THE LAST OF A DYING BRAVE FEW TO REALIZE THE REAL TRUTH OF OUR COMPROMISED MEDIA. YOU TOOK A BIG RISK POSTING HERE
watch out! behind you!
(snicker)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
::sigh:
China was never a communist state. It has always been and still is an oligarchical dictatorship built on the backs of a massive slave class.
there are more of them, like how drivers are actually driving BACKWARDS in a no-cross part of the road until they reach the part marked as crossable to the other side, after stopping at a red light and realizing they need to get to the other side. the irony is that, going backwards in a red light, even they are alone in the road, is much worse than trying to cross over from no-cross line to the other lane.
Read radical news here
a lemon, that is already offered on the side of another dish, and a chopstick in a spaghetti in an italian restaurant are fundamentally two different things.
in the former, lemon is there, its in the context of the restaurant and they have it ready. in the latter, the entire context of restaurant is different, also they have no chopsticks in readiness.
this is not local custom or anything, plain old dishes.
what i see is, not me, but many overly politically correct people are being way too prejudiced in reacting to the example i gave. its as if they think brainwashing is a concept that does not exist on the face of the earth. unfortunately it does, and its very real. attributing nationalism, or other forms of rationalizing features to brainwashing never bears fruit.
Read radical news here
chinese people are SO roboticized that they are not even able to realize that they actually can give lemon with a dish that does not contain lemon in its menu description. 'you cant do that' they say. they dont understand they can actually give lemon with another dish, even if it does not contain the menu item, despite having the liberty to do so. in beijing restaurants. the reason for that is, they are so strictly brainwashed and made to comply with whatever rule is put that, they cant even realize that they can do something like this with their OWN menu in their OWN restaurant.
chinese do not need to be communists anymore. the current populace is SO brainwashed that communism is not needed. you should have seen it in the olympic torch runs, how radical chinese students were.
It's actually far more likely that they think you're a rude twit and refuse to comply with your demands for lemon. Having visited Beijing twice in 2005/2006 I can attest most restaurants are more then willing to cater to my order. I've gotten lemon added to my drinks, instructed them on how to make a bloody mary (since clamato is scarce there I wasn't able to get a ceasar, had them swap things around in their dished to accomadate my Cantonese/Canadian tastes.
Chinese people have news sources of questionable truth, they are generally aware of this and take things with a grain of salt. They don't like to rock the boat but they are neither brain washed nor robotized. They do however suffer from the same nationalist bug that America has so both Americans and Chinese will go on ad nauseum of how great their country is. Maybe that is brain washing but almost every nation on earth suffers from that.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Well, except for the part where most businesses are either owned by the government, the party, or by relatives of the top party officials
Depends on which industry. There are many independent corporations in China, only the major utilities are 100% state owned. Most businesses in china are small business owned by random people. Large factories and other such businesses are also more often independent then state run. You may want to revise your opinions with some facts.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Oh... they have instituted a Social Security system a few years ago. Unfortunately, they model it after the failing U.S. social security.
And now they are on track to create a public health system, after public outcry over a case in which the patiet was charged 5 million Yuan (US$400K) over a 5 month stay in the hospital before dying. Just hope they don't model it after the U.S. system again.
That may be... But ask mainland-Chinese, and I have, and many believe that the government engaging in these activities is a good thing. Recent news reflects that.
Chinese have organized protests against Western companies. Carrefour in particular was targeted because of rumors that a major shareholder was contributed to the Dalai Lama.
The people are upset about the reaction the West has had over Tibet. And these protests haven't just occurred in China, but in Western nations where those Chinese aren't under control of the government. In fact, in China, the government has tried to dampen some of that fervor.
This sort of attitude is prevalent. Taiwanese run into problems in China because of the Chinese belief that Taiwan belongs to China. Any time a Taiwanese official visits Japan or the US the Chinese government is up in arms. A skyscraper in China, being built by a Japanese company had to be redesigned because a prominent design feature reminded people of the rising sun flag.
So the problem does also lie, to some extent, with the Chinese people themselves. The educational system certainly has done a very effective job of indoctrinating the people with the party line. But obviously, I won't make sweeping generalizations about the Chinese, because clearly there are many who disagree with the government and wont venture to speak up for fear of what will happen to them.
I do lament sometimes at the lack of national pride in America. Obviously too much is a very bad thing. But if Americans had a bit more of it perhaps we wouldn't be outsourcing everything to China.
So Chinese hackers could conceivably shut down the entire US technical support / customer service infrastructure. The obvious question is, given the current quality of service, would anyone notice?
China feels India snapping at it's heels in the world market for cheap mass produced goods and low cost technology. When will we see the "made in India" sticker on the back of crap from Wal-mart?
China says "over our dead bodies". Hee, hee, hee! maybe they'll cancel each other out and Americans can get their jobs back.
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
...given that China has an absolute authoritarian system of control, and India is bitterly divided along ideological lines, China should have little trouble penetrating and subjugating the country. Already, the Han Chinese chauvinists have been responsible for funding the entire Communist party machinery in India, and have effectively created a subversive government (The Communist Party of India) that is the agent of a hostile foreign country. The CIA has already provided evidence as to how Indian Communists, underthe instructions of their Chinese paymasters, infiltrated the Indian Army during the Sino-Indian war and betray military secrets to Beijing.
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-07.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-08.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-15.pdf
Highlights include:
#CPI(M) [Communist Party of India Marxist] heavyweight HK Surjeet influenced by Communist Soviet Russia to setup an underground organization
#CPI(M) did proceed to recruit a secret organization within the Indian Army.
#China and Soviet Russia both insisted that the CPI(M) must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces.
#With the People's Liberation Army now present along the Indian Border the Indian Party had a channel of support for Armed Operations and a potential "liberator" in the event of mass uprisings - 13 Sept 1959
#4 powerful radio sets had been installed in the office of the China Review in Calcutta to listen to broadcasts from Beijing
#Chinese Financial Subsidies to sections of the CPI(M) particularly the left faction strongholds in West Bengal
#A foreign supply base was now available for the underground organizations with the Chinese occupation of Tibet and other frontier areas.
#Letter asking for collaboration in Indian underground organization work aimed at an eventual revolution, because China has a border with India and can provide arms and supplies.
#Also Jaipal Singh, head of the illegal organization within the Indian Army decided to reactivate his organization in 1961 following the hard left faction gaining control of the party.
In addition, the Communist Party of India have successfully carried out several pogroms and genocides against Hindus and Tibetan refugees in India, particularly during the 70's and 80's, all as part of a Trotskyist strategy of maintaining a state of "permanent revolution" (the most recent one being the Nandigram SEZ Massacre), all at the behest of their Chinese paymasters.
China has also aggressively sponsored the terrorist Naxalite Communist terror movement in India by financing major Communist radicals (ethnic Bengali Bolshevists like Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal received training from Chinese war camps in Tibet only to subsequently lead the naxalite reign of terror across India's "Red Corridor").
For a developing country, India is too damn democratic. If India was more authoritarian it would have taken care of such subversive Communist elements a long time ago, but India's democracy is it's greatest weakness, particularly when it is surrounded by totalitarian regimes like Pakistan and China that represent a major existential threat to the country.
l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
That rug really tied the room together.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Read radical news here
While I doubt they'll attack the USA,simply because of the fear of MAD,I can see them in the future using things like this to prepare for an invasion of say,Korea. With a population as big as theirs,short of a plague wiping out 50-80% of them,I just don't see how eventually they won't have to invade just to keep the population fed,clothed,and housed. But that is my 02c,YMMV.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
it really did.
... its my carpet and they had no right to piss on it. im gonna go and get my carpet.
you know
Read radical news here
Does slashdot exercise NO quality control at all? Is it just the firehose now? Is there even a reason to have editors at all?
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
This is a stupid question from an ignorant American... but what exactly *is* the economy of China in microeconomic terms?
As the definition of Communism involves sharing the load of manufacturing and using the available resources across the population (equally)... how far off is that from day-to-day to the average Chinese citizen?
I know in America we are encouraged to form partnerships with those we can take advantage of (either symbiotically or parasitically) and crush our competitors. On a personal level, though, the social welfare of those who are less fortunate is a strong consideration that drives many charitable Americans, though. Notwithstanding, the divide between the average American and the richest American is several orders of magnitude of wealth. Thus I ask, is this dissimilar to the state of things in China?
Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
Yup, different alright:
1. Like in Soviet Russia of days gone by, you still need an official permit/papers (for lack of a better word) to live in a certain place.
2. Secondary education isn't free.
This; the farmers/rural people have little labour mobility as they need to have official permission before migrating to areas with different work opportunities. Combine this with the fact that unless you have disposable income, you're unlikely to be able to provide your children with a decent enough education to be anything other than farmers either...
Bam, instant serfdom!
AFAIK The US isn't that bad yet, and is in fact more left leaning in terms of social security and welfare safety nets.
PS for the record I'm a Russian who was born in the USSR now living in Australia, i.e. not an American.
http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
The exact same thing, just to their own people.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
Cuba certainly has its problems, but I don't think anyone accuses it of being fascist.
Norway meets many of the criteria of a socialist state (government ownership / control of large portions of industry, aggressive redistribution of wealth), and it's the furthest thing from fascism.
The US, on the other hand, with a government that consistently lies to its constituents, operates outside of the law, and protects the interests of a narrow segment of society, is a hair's breadth from full blown fascism.
See how easy it is to selectively pick examples to confirm your beliefs?
Or maybe the chef is having a snit because you're a stupid gwailo pretending to tell him how to cook Chinese food. So the wait staff pretend not to understand the stupid gwailo rather than get into an argument about it (the chef has large cleavers and you are unarmed).
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
please read it attentively this time. and maybe a few other posts of mine in the thread. you'll see what actually happened, and who it had happened to.
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Actually China's been much more on track to keeping their population under control, in large part due to the one child policy. If you want to see a powerful Asian nation that's having a big problem with population control and resource usage, look further South to the "democratic" nation of India.
That said, the Chinese one-child policy probably has led to infanticides of girls and resulted in a gender imbalance in younger generations. A surplus of men without any marital prospects could lead to more internal strife which the leadership may need to redirect into manpower for an invasion. Or it could just lead to a few generations with extremely competitive males. I'm not quite sure how that's going to work out yet. We'll have to see over the next 20 years.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
Also barbecue, honey mustard, ranch, chipolete, buffalo...
shit, I think I just gave away that I am an American...
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I AM a Hindu nationalist of the Bal Gangadhar Tilak style (not quite the same as a Hindutva, which would be the Savarkar style) and there is much to criticize in the Hindutva ideology (wtf is it exactly? A lot of it isn't very specific), but it simply is not morally equivalent to the Taliban, and to make such an offensive analogy betrays your far-left/militant Islamist biases. Stop reading nonsense Indian media, which is controlled by a core group of ultra-fanatic Communist ideologues like Prannoy Roy and his minions. Stop reading racist bullshit from the New York Times or the Guardian. get some REAL information from political analysts and specialists in the South Asian region. Good sources are (google the names):
The South Asia Analysis Group (Indian)
The Washington Institute for Near-East Policy (American)
The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (American)
and other similar groups.
l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
True, Also the point wasn't that the capitalists were that stupid, but that they had so much control over production that the communist revolutionaries couldn't even get rope from a non-capitalist source.
im no westerner, and wondering why are you posting as anonymous coward ? a chinese brainwashed nationalist teenager ? probably. your nation doesnt even let you expose your ideas with your real identity on the net.
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