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RIAA Says No Mystery In Rash of College Complaints

Doug Lederman writes "As colleges receive exploding numbers of complaints from recording companies about alleged illegal downloading of music files, theories abound about whether the industry is changing its criteria, aggressively targeting users who merely make downloaded music available to others rather than actual infringers. But after weeks of silence, the president of the RIAA says No: Better technology, he asserts, is merely resulting in better enforcement."

255 comments

  1. In other words... by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    RIAA: *Jedi hand wave* Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

    What a colassal house of cards the RIAA has built for itself. They are doing everything BUT look at the core reasons why people are buying fewer and fewer CD's. It's got far less to do with having to pay for it than it does with the overall quality of their pap...I mean products.

    1. Re:In other words... by Clujo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe it's been said before, but it seems clear that RIAA is not so much enforcement as a revenue source for a desperate group.

    2. Re:In other words... by nelsonc5 · · Score: 1

      better technology, better enforement, better cartel. At least the justice system is catching on to how bogus this is

    3. Re:In other words... by CSMatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. People still listen to it. Whether or not they consider it good enough to warrant purchasing is the real question.

    4. Re:In other words... by veganboyjosh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've got more downloaded music than most people I know. Most of it doesn't infringe on the RIAA by a long shot, owing to indie releases, obscure bands, etc. (Yeah, I'm one of those music fans.)

      The whole "we only download it because it's crap" argument doesn't hold water for me. If it's so bad, then why are people downloading it in the first place?

      Pardon the lame analogy, but if I own a pizza restaurant, and serve horrible pizzas, does that justify people stealing pizzas from me?

      I don't believe for a second that if the RIAA/major labels dropped all of their craphole music all of a sudden, and picked up a wide variety of talented, interesting musicians, that the illegal downloading would stop. Is that really what you're saying?

    5. Re:In other words... by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't say people downloaded because it was crap. I said fewer people are buying entire CD's when 90% of said CD is crap and maybe has one or two good songs.

      Of course that is subjective. Also, I have never downloaded music 'illegally' so I'm not one for making any apologies for that behavior. I want to see Fair Use and Copyright law changed, but in the meantime I respect the current legal framework. I've been *very* vocal with my local Congresscritter on this subject among others.

    6. Re:In other words... by barzok · · Score: 2, Interesting


      The whole "we only download it because it's crap" argument doesn't hold water for me. If it's so bad, then why are people downloading it in the first place?
      I downloaded Metallica's St. Anger to find out if it was as bad as the reviews I'd heard.

      Turns out that it wasn't. It was far, far worse.
    7. Re:In other words... by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1

      No, I completely agree with you. What the major labels need to do it offer a good quality, reasonably priced, non-DRM'd, easy to search downloads. -Anything- less will not curb downloading. They don't seem willing to even try and compete in the digital distribution arena without clinging to something above that's kneecapping them. Especially the DRM.

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    8. Re:In other words... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, they don't. I've not listened to any new music from major labels for about 2 years, and I don't think i'm missing out on much.

      The only folks i've heard of so far are Amy Winehouse (whos voice I hate more than Macey Grays'), NIN and Radiohead. I bought NIN and Radiohead's albums (FLAC for NIN, CD for Radiohead), and I also bought 10,000 Days by Tool.

      Apart from that, i'll gladly listen to my Maiden, Metallica, Guns 'n' Roses, and all my other music many more times. I can wait out this game indefinately, as i'm missing nothing.

      I will admit, however, that I do download CC licenced music. I'm not overly impressed so far, though.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Revenue for What desperate group? The record companies? The mid-level managers within those companies?

      (shrug)

      I steal music. I'm a thief taking other people's labor (they produce; I don't pay their wages). I freely admit that, and the reason I do it is because I don't want to pay $10-15 to buy a CD that contains just one good song. (Nor do I want to pay $1 to get compressed/lossy-sounding AAC files.) So I steal to get what I want.

      If the artist is exceptionally good, or releases a greatest hits album that collects 5-6 albums in one space, THEN I will buy the thing because it's worthwhile. I've got a whole bookshelf filled with greatest hits albums.

      Maybe RIAA should focus more on providing WHAT I WANT,
      rather than beating me over the head with lawsuits.
      i.e. RIAA should try better customer service.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    10. Re:In other words... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pardon the lame analogy, but if I own a pizza restaurant, and serve horrible pizzas, does that justify people stealing pizzas from me?

      ---------

      No, but you get to keep the original music track while the other person gets a copy. If I steal the pizza, you lose a pizza. If I DOWNLOAD a COPY of a file, you don't lose the file.

      This is why it is not THEFT.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    11. Re:In other words... by McGuirk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Try to keep in mind, veganboyjosh, it's not quite like people stealing pizzas from you. Rather, it's akin to you owning a bookstore and people coming in, copying the books, and then leaving. You lose nothing, but gain nothing either.

      I'm not making a point to side either way at this point, just to point out this inconsistency.

    12. Re:In other words... by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Just because you don't listen to it doesn't mean others don't.

      I've been in lines waiting at my college's dining hall for food and heard people singing along to shitty music on the radio station playing in the background on more than one occasion.

    13. Re:In other words... by ari_j · · Score: 2, Funny

      The whole "we only download it because it's crap" argument doesn't hold water for me. If it's so bad, then why are people downloading it in the first place?
      I downloaded Metallica's St. Anger to find out if it was as bad as the reviews I'd heard. Turns out that it wasn't. It was far, far worse. I was going to ask if you wrote your ISP for a refund of the bandwidth.
    14. Re:In other words... by peipas · · Score: 1

      If you could download a pizza and the pizza restaurant would still have the original pizza it baked, would you download it? What about a car?

      This doesn't address some of the core issues at play, or maybe it does, since it's a changing marketplace to which the record industry does not wish to adapt as compared to its previous cash cow. If you make something people don't want, people won't buy it, including CDs you're told you can't transfer to devices, or DVDs that make you wait through mandatory introductions prior to allowing you to view the content you purchased. And nevermind that when you buy a CD or DVD, you are buying nothing. You're told you don't own what you've bought and the full rights to what you bought still belong to the author, therefore you can't do with it what you please such as transfer it to your digital music device. You're also not being sold a license because they won't give you new physical media if yours gets damaged. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Do you enjoy buying nothing?

    15. Re:In other words... by Bud+Dickman · · Score: 1
      HA HA HA! Thank you - you just brightened my day with that post. Hilarious.

      You start your post by saying, "No they [the public at large] don't [listen to RIAA-backed music]" and then the rest of your post concerns how you don't. The sheer arrogance that you represent EVERYONE is hilarious. Bravo. Well done.

    16. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's retards like you that have killed the music industry. People STEAL because they don't like the music?

      Dumbass

    17. Re:In other words... by Vendetta · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I don't like 99 per cent of the food at McDonalds. Does that mean that I get to waltz in and steal an Egg McMuffin because that's what I like and not everything on their menu is an Egg McMuffin, so to punish them I steal and they get NO money, not even for the stuff I do like?

      I don't like the Recording Industries' lawsuits or DRM or behavior in general but it's people like you, who openly admit that they are "stealing", that make everyone on this side of the fence look bad.

    18. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the major labels need to do it offer a good quality, reasonably priced, non-DRM'd, easy to search downloads.

      You mean like Amazon?

    19. Re:In other words... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What a colassal house of cards the RIAA has built for itself. They are doing everything BUT look at the core reasons why people are buying fewer and fewer CD's.
      Of course they think everyone is stealing music. When you try to understand the mindset of someone else the first thing you do is look at yourself. RIAA execs think that people are stealing music because they're cheap bastards and it's free, because they know that would be their own motivation if they were in the consumer's shoes.

      Did you ever notice that the people who are paranoid that they'll get screwed over are often the same people who screw over others every chance they get?
    20. Re:In other words... by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, I completely agree with you. What the major labels need to do it offer a good quality, reasonably priced, non-DRM'd, easy to search downloads. Don't know how well it meets your criteria (since some like "easy to search" are kinda in the eye of the user), but the Amazon music store seems pretty nice. It's got a pretty good selection of stuff available in plain-ol no-DRM MP3 format. What I normally do when I have a song I want to purchase is check Amazon first. If they have it, I buy the MP3 from them, then import it into my iTunes library. Their setup isn't quite as nice or integrated as the iTunes store, but I like to give priority to non-DRM purchases when I can just so that I help lean the statistics in the right direction :). If they don't have it, I'll go ahead and settle for the iTunes version.
      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    21. Re:In other words... by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1
      Actually, yes that looks pretty close. I think 50 cents/song is closer to market value (they don't have media/transport costs normally associated with CD distribution). Unfortunately it's not available to everyone.

      From their Terms of Use for mp3 downloads:

      5. Territorial Restrictions

      As required by our Digital Content providers, Digital Content will, unless otherwise designated, be available only to customers located in the United States.
      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    22. Re:In other words... by k33l0r · · Score: 1

      Try to keep in mind [... ] it's not quite like people stealing pizzas from you. Rather, it's akin to you owning a bookstore and people coming in, copying the books, and then leaving.

      Thank you! Could people please stop drawing analogies to physical goods? It's starting to get on my nerves...

      If I download a pirate copy of 3ds Max will Autodesk have lost $3,500? No, because I don't have $3,500 to spend on 3ds Max anyway.

    23. Re:In other words... by Reapman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't agree with the GP, stealing is bad however you justify it, but your anaology is weak... if you walked into a McDonalds, bought an Egg McMuffan, and had to pay $20 for it plus get 6 additional cheeseburgers for it THEN your anaology might hold.

      Now that they're coming out with DRM-free music at a pretty good bit rate, I'm all for it. I don't want to buy music that will die because some company decided to cancel their DRM system (see Microsoft)

    24. Re:In other words... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course I represent everyone.

      Solipsism

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    25. Re:In other words... by SlickNic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so tired of hearing this crap argument, first a physical product takes physical goods AND labor to reproduce. Music takes a negligible amount of labor to reproduce in digital formats. A CD, Cassette, 8track, ect... are all physical goods and you must pay to create them in addition to paying the artist/label. Digitally reproduced media should be priced accordingly, the music industry is just pricing it the same even though they have less costs to distribute the digital product. Some may not agree with me on this last part but I do think that if a song was $0.10 or $0.25 they would sell many many more songs and it would no longer be worth wile to download illegally when you could just buy the song correctly tagged in the formate/quality you want and be DRM free. The labels could save at least hundreds of thousands of dollars downsizing their legal department and getting rid of any CD stamping plants/contracts they may have. Music "collections" could also be sold, say $50.00 for every Beatles song ever written, bam one download and you have em all in your format/quality of choice. I really do think allofmp3.com has/had the right idea, they just need some more solid licensing.

      --
      Saying "all faiths are equivalent" is akin to saying "all drugs are the same".
    26. Re:In other words... by imnojezus · · Score: 3, Funny

      RIAA: *Jedi hand wave* Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. GAH! Mixed movie metaphores! Brain... hurting! Mashups... forming!
    27. Re:In other words... by strabes · · Score: 0, Troll

      Egg McMuffins have a marginal cost (price of inputs + labor). Digital music (and movies, software, etc) has no marginal cost. Creating an additional unit of output costs $0. Therefore the only thing that a producer of such a product could conceivably charge money for is the right to use their "intellectual property," which we all know doesn't exist.

      --
      Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
    28. Re:In other words... by Splab · · Score: 1

      Just because people can do sing-along to something being blasted through the radio 10 times a day doesn't mean they will actually buy the music.

    29. Re:In other words... by cahyotw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better technology, better enforcement, Papa John's

    30. Re:In other words... by veganboyjosh · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. In retrospect, I guess I read more into your first post than you put out.

    31. Re:In other words... by krunk7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my experience, it's often akin to one of the two following situations:

      • Like walking into a book store, reading the first two chapters, finding out the book sucks and never picking it up again.
      • Buying a book, loving it, having it fall apart due to crappy craftsmanship. So you copy a friends book and put it back on the shelf.
    32. Re:In other words... by z80kid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Wish I had mod points.

      When I was a young'un I worked for a local farmer. I forget the exact circumstances, but the old man walked away from a guy he was dealing with who implied that the old man was trying to cheat him. He basically said, "Well, if you think I'm going to cheat you, then you should probably deal with someone else." and asked the guy to leave.

      He explained it to me later this way: "People who cheat expect you to cheat them. People who steal expect you to steal from them. He just expects us to do what he would do, given the chance.".

    33. Re:In other words... by D'Sphitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So you're saying that during the 80's and 90's the music was just so good that people wouldn't steal it if they had the chance? Wrong, they steal it today because technology has made it extremely easy to do so without leaving home, and if they had the same opportunity people would have stolen it in the 90's, the 80's, the 70's, the 60's too.

      If the music is as bad as you say, why do people want to steal it? All I see here over and over are people railing against popular music, you don't have to like it or buy it but it's called pop music because it's just that, popular. (Que rants proclaiming just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. "Good" is completely subjective, but there certainly is a correlation between popular and good. You may hate Britney Spears, but if every person gets a vote then a hell of a lot of people vote that her music is "good". You don't get any more say than teenage girls, despite your obviously sophisticated musical palette. Anyone who likes music you don't is stupid, right? )

      Itunes has proven that many people in fact will pay for todays music, they just don't want to go to the mall to pay $18 for a full cd when they only like one song. The RIAA's problem isn't putting out crap music, it's that they refuse to give the consumers what they want to pay for (DRM free single song downloads).

    34. Re:In other words... by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      No worries; I could have also been a bit more clear, but I am multitasking (i.e. real, paying work) while I browse /. intermittently ;-)

    35. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you ever notice that the people who are paranoid that they'll get screwed over are often the same people who screw over others every chance they get? Oh! I take it you've met my boss, then.
    36. Re:In other words... by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Well, I assume it means that they at least like it, unless it's stuck in their head or something.

    37. Re:In other words... by jb68321 · · Score: 1

      Pardon the lame analogy, but if I own a pizza restaurant, and serve horrible pizzas, does that justify people stealing pizzas from me? Better analogy: a bookstore allows people to come in, read through books at their leisure, perhaps buy one once in a while. No sales people standing around to bother you & get you moving. Ever heard of such a store? Hmm?

      I knew many kids that spent hours and hours in Barnes and Noble (and many adults only a few minutes) before buying anything. I personally have read parts of several books without buying those particular books, while sampling/buying others, etc... It's just a different (read: more friendly) way of approaching sales. I remember once going into a Borders and trying to do the same thing--sit down and flip through a couple books I was thinking of buying--and was practically thrown out of the store. I never went back!

      As Radiohead, NIN, etc who have turned to alternative business models have shown, fans WILL send money if they think your product is worth paying for. Recording companies need to re-evaluate what their products are -actually- worth according to the consumer. Every single computer I've ever "fixed" for friends/family/coworkers has had some kind of bittorent/Limewire-esque app on it. Obviously the population of consumers is trying to tell the recording industry something!
    38. Re:In other words... by firex726 · · Score: 1

      But you can choose to order what you want from their menu. I also don't like the majority of their food, but when I buy something I can choose what I want in my order. I can tell them to give me a "#5, no meal, and a coke" because I may not like the hash brown. But on a CD I don't have that option... I get the songs that the makers want me to get, and I may not like them all, so the way I perceive it as "I'm paying $20 for 2 songs" as opposed to say "20 songs for $20".

    39. Re:In other words... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't say people downloaded because it was crap. I said fewer people are buying entire CD's when 90% of said CD is crap and maybe has one or two good songs.

      When was this not true? I recall the 80s fondly, but man that decade spawned some seriously shitty music. Really bad soft rock, appalling synthesized junk, hair metal. Yech. But people bought it because they liked it well enough. Need to come up with a better reason than quality for why people aren't buying.

      From what I can tell, there's a couple reasons: 1) people can buy tracks now. That's a fully legal reason why the record companies lose money. 2) There hasn't been a change in the dominant format now for what, 15 years? It's been a while since people bought their music twice. That made the record companies a lot of money. And 3)...piracy. It's really hard to argue that there's not a significant number of people who aren't buying music that they otherwise would have bought because it's now free. Sure, it's easy to rationalize - costs too much, crappy, whatever. But the end result is, if it's that bad then don't listen to it.

      Of course that is subjective. Also, I have never downloaded music 'illegally' so I'm not one for making any apologies for that behavior. I want to see Fair Use and Copyright law changed, but in the meantime I respect the current legal framework. I've been *very* vocal with my local Congresscritter on this subject among others.

      That, in my eyes, gives you a great amount of credibility. I think too many people use banners like copyright, and so on to justify illegal behavior. Calling the Congressrats is a great way to do it.

      I do think there is room for civil disobediance here - go download music that *would* have passed into public domain before the Bono act was passed. But downloading new music while claiming evils of copyright - which many people are doing - doesn't work.

    40. Re:In other words... by fwarren · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I am sure the RIAA sees me as a thief as well.

      I purchase music two ways. One is from independent artists. In which case, the artist gets 100% of the proceeds.

      The other, is at the Good Will or other used store. Where I "stick it to the man". No money goes to the record companies.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    41. Re:In other words... by lbgator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a bad analogy. Stealing a tangible good and stealing an arrangement of electrons are two different things. How about:

      You like McMuffins, but McDonalds only sells them in 12 packs and they won't let you split the cost among friends. Anyone who is caught splitting the cost of a McTwelvePack will be prosecuted. "This is ridiculous" you squeal, "MickeyDees can't tell me how to enjoy my McMackins!" You and your friends decide that buying one McTwelvePack each is ridiculous and is not going to happen - so you either resolve to not buy McMuffins at all or you set up an illegal breakfast sharing ring which will fleece McDonalds out of many potential dollars.

      I know this seems like a truly outlandish analogy, but is it really? The GP says he enjoys a product and is willing to pay money for the product, but it is mostly sold in a format that he can't tolerate. Hence, he is left with the option to not buy the product or steal it. I am no psychologist, but it seems like human nature to me.

    42. Re:In other words... by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      It does cost some amount to make a CD/DVD/create the digital mp3 and to store the digital file. Electricity is not free to most companies. The IP should belong to the artist who made it NOT the record companies. The record companies are just middle men. I wish more artists would open up a website allowing free downloads of their music and allowing people to pay what they think is fair. I forget who did that but they did get boatload of cash instead of it going to the RIAA.

    43. Re:In other words... by sm62704 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I steal music

      You shoplift?

      If by "I steal music" you mean "I use P2P to download songs" then you are entirely incorrect. Here is the difference between stealing music and copyriught infringement:

      Stealing music
      You go into Best Buy and sneak a CD out of the store. Best Buy eats the cost of the CD you took. If you are caught, you will pay a small fine of a couple hundred bucks for your misdemeanor crime, or perhaps perform community service.

      Copyright infringement
      You go to Best Buy and legally purchase a CD. You then rip the CD's tracks to MP3 and put them in your "share folder" and let Kazaa or Morpheus run. Downloading is not involved; the people who download the tracks you supply are not in the wrong. If you are caught there is no criminal penalty but you face civil penalties of up to a hundred thousand dollars per song.

      But I think you're fooling yourself. You're not a thief. If you share music then you are a copyright infringer, or "pirate" in the unwashed vernacular.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    44. Re:In other words... by Quetzo · · Score: 1

      That, my friend, was the last CD I ever bought... :/. What a pity to see such a talented group put out such drivel just to satisfy their contract obligations.

      All is not dark on the northern front though, Korn did a different deal with Virgin where, as far as I can understand, Virgin was more like a venture capitalist investing in the band. This gave Korn enormous freedom and flexibility in release schedules, tour engagements, merchandizing etc. That freedom reflects in the stellar quality of music they have produced.

      If more bands are able to bootstrap themselves into a position where they are not selling their souls to the recording companies to get their names out, I bet we see better quality music that does not cost an arm and a leg.

    45. Re:In other words... by Damon+Tog · · Score: 1

      Honestly, both of these analogies are flawed.

      In the bookstore analogy, the author loses income because instead of being paid for his work, people just make copies of it without paying him. Of course, it would be unrealistic to argue that every, single unauthorized copy is a "lost sale," but arguing the opposite is equally silly.

    46. Re:In other words... by fwarren · · Score: 1

      No http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_MusicHome Taping is killing the music industry.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    47. Re:In other words... by Bageloid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Im fairly sure we have Libraries and books still sell well. Hell, my local library even has Music... Then again, its not exactly a small library Link to library and example: http://catalog.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/search/Xfoo+fighters&searchscope=63&SORT=D/Xfoo+fighters&searchscope=63&SORT=D&SUBKEY=foo%20fighters/1%2C3%2C3%2CB/frameset&FF=Xfoo+fighters&SORT=D&3%2C3%2C This is how it should be, everything available at the library, if you want to own, you buy it yourself(as many music fans do).

    48. Re:In other words... by ClubStew · · Score: 1

      People aren't downloading the crap - they're stating that most of the CD is crap except for a couple of good songs.

    49. Re:In other words... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      err... no.
      He loses potential income. And studies are starting to show that he would loose no income because those people wouldn't buy it any ways.

      It is vital the distinction be made at all times. Otherwise there will be more momentum to get rid of used resellers and libraries.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    50. Re:In other words... by digitrev · · Score: 1

      Well, looks like this Canuck will stick to some good ol' fashioned torrents. And since my ISP only cares if I download games, I'll continue to download music guilt free and occasionally pay for a band I really like and want to listen to in the car.

      --
      Cynical Idealist
    51. Re:In other words... by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course, it would be unrealistic to argue that every, single unauthorized copy is a "lost sale," but arguing the opposite is equally silly.

      I object to the use of "lost sale." I would rather see "missed sale." A "loss" is a legal term used for theft. You have to have a loss to have a theft. Copyright can not be theft because there is no loss. Revenue, sales, and all that aren't items. You can't lose them. "Oops, I misplaced my revenue, have you seen it?" "Check under the bed." Nope, doesn't work, you can't lose your revenue. And any salesman will tell you a lost sale is a sale you would like to have gotten that never really existed. Again, not a loss. When someone copys a book, what has the author or bookstore or trade association "lost"? They still have all their copies in storage. They still have the copyright. They still have all the money they had before. There is no loss. Nothing is missing. With nothing they can point to that was touched, then it can't be a loss, and thus can't be a theft.

      Using "lost revenue" or "lost sale" implies that something that never existed was lost, which is impossible. "Missed sale" and "unrealized revenue" are much more applicable, but we all know that the content owners are purposefully misusing words in order to mislead (I call that lying) and won't stop. So I would argue that there is no grey. Either every copy made is a "lost sale" in the sense it is a sale that will not take place (whether it would have anyway being irrelevant) or none of them are a "lost sale" because a sale can never be "lost" in the strict definition of the word. That's why content owners pick such words to use. They can always make the arguement that the other side is irrational because they will use the words to create semantic arguements over "some loss" "no loss" and such, while they continue filing in court that 100% of all copies made are lost sales and no one is calling them on it.

    52. Re:In other words... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      So would you steal it if...

      It were reasonably priced so that people in the music industry made good solid $80k to $100k per year salaries instead of millions of dollars ( so CD's would cost about $3 bucks for 15 songs).

      I suspect you might not but a lot would.

      The problem that RIAA has created is that people were averse to stealing but the recording industry put up huge inducements (extremely high price, unreasonable, almost infinately long copyright periods) while also falling victim to new technology (easy to crack, virtually free physical production). Once people started stealing under unreasonable conditions, then it becomes easy to constantly redefine reasonable down. There are now people who will steal brand new material, that they would have purchased, that they could buy inexpensively after three months (often $9.99). In fact, some people are so mad, they don't care if it was free or cheaper to purchase than to download and burn their own.

      And ... it's not stealing. It's infringement-- unauthorized copying. They still have their physical property.
      Hell a lot of them are still getting unreasonably wealthy from the "tiny" legal sales they are making.

      Copyright was intended to be just enough to encourage creation of works for the public. It was not intended to be corporate or artist welfare/lottery-- produce one popular work and get a billion dollars (like rowling for example).
      Prices currently reflect the reality of 50 years ago and are probably an order of magnitude too high now.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    53. Re:In other words... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I think an even better analogy is

      If you had to pay $20 for a macmuffin and 6 cheeseburgers OR you could spend $20 once and then put the macmuffin into your magical replicator to make infinite perfect, fresh copies of it for about 10 cents... and you KNOW that McDonalds has even better technology than you so is making their copies for 5 cents... so you feel like a real sucker for dropping $20 for breakfast every morning that they are making for 5 cents and forcing you to pay $20 instead of $3.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    54. Re:In other words... by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked we (I'm Canadian as well) are allowed to download legally as long as we don't upload: http://www.news.com/2100-1025_3-5121479.html. The wikipedia article on Candian copyright law explains it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_copyright_law#Music_Recordings. We have a levy on blank media that gives us carte blanche to copy music. Basically as far as the law is concerned, we've already paid for it.

      Also, newer /. article related to p2p in Canada: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/15/066200&from=rss

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    55. Re:In other words... by digitrev · · Score: 1

      Warning: semantics argument to follow.

      Actually, it's called pop music because of the way it sounds, the way it is created, and the way it is marketed. Rock music was popular for a while, but that doesn't make it pop. Plus, there's plenty of unpopular pop music.

      --
      Cynical Idealist
    56. Re:In other words... by claytonjr · · Score: 1

      It IS theft, because that is a hypothetical sale that the record company lost. If you did not pay for it, then it IS theft. Steal all the music you want. But, please don't lie to yourself.

    57. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I run the Ubuntu flavor of Linux. For that reason alone, I have absolutely no interest in DRM encumbered music because I cannot use it at all. However, I have very little interest in being a copyright infringer either. Finally, I have little interest in giving the RIAA any money to support their madness. That said, I usually am an off and on customer with eMusic. Whenever I feel my music collection is getting stale, I'll join for a month or two with eMusic and usually grab 30-60 new tracks. I'll be honest, yes I did the Napster thing when it first came out. Now? I stick to internet radio and a monthly batch of downloads off eMusic. Because yes, copy right law is broken. However, it is still illegal and I have no interest in being pwned in court. However, I am still a thief according to the RIAA, because I ripped my boyfriend's entire collection of 90's HiNRG club music to my computer. Nevermind that 95% of what I ripped no longer exists in any music store. I also bittorrent the mixes off GenerationTrance.com, which are provided free by GT and Project C for personal use only. I'm sure just because it's over the bittorrent protocol the RIAA is interested in suing me.

    58. Re:In other words... by yoasif · · Score: 1

      I must be stealing whenever I drink water from the tap instead of paying Pepsi for Aquafina!

    59. Re:In other words... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Sure...

            There isn't much to "steal".

            Just eat one, once.

            It's not like you have to act like Plankton or anything.

            A McMuffin is trivial to copy.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    60. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really want to get all the record labels on the phone and tell them EXACTLY what you just said. You have by far the best possible solution I've read to date, and I've been following the music "theft" argument since the days of Napster on dial-up. I'm willing to bet that your proposed sales model would definitely be more then enough incentive to make virtually everyone who downloads switch over to the legal method.

    61. Re:In other words... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > 3)...piracy. It's really hard to argue that there's not a significant number of people who aren't
      > buying music that they otherwise would have bought because it's now free.

      Bullsh*t.

      People have always been able to "get music for free" without piracy.

      Radio and MTV have always made this pretty easy. If you don't want to
      pay for 7/8 ths of the album from the one hit wonder band that you
      don't want you just stuck to listening to the radio.

      If you were really interested you might have gotten the 45.

      I still have a couple of 45's from hair bands of the 80's.

      There is only so many willing buyers. Preventing the willing buyers
      from engaging in some form of "mooching" won't magically make them
      willing to cough up money.

      Radio is littered with bands that I listen to on a regular basis
      but have never ever directly contributed to (or pirated from).

      Take an ipod, put it on random and insert some commercials and
      you wouldn't be able to tell the difference... which is kind of
      the point of an ipod to begin with.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:In other words... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That, in my eyes, gives you a great amount of credibility. I think too many people use banners like copyright, and so on to justify illegal behavior. Calling the Congressrats is a great way to do it.

      Are you suggesting that you don't believe in civil disobedience?

      I do think there is room for civil disobediance here

      Oh, I guess not.

      go download music that *would* have passed into public domain before the Bono act was passed. But downloading new music while claiming evils of copyright - which many people are doing - doesn't work.

      Doesn't work towards what goal? If you mean it doesn't work to change the minds of the RIAA dicks, then sure, you're right. If you mean it doesn't work to show just how ridiculous the RIAA's position is, then I think you're at least 100% wrong.

      The simple truth is that copyright is not necessary for the stated goal of producing art. In fact, copyright slows the distribution of art and crap alike. Copyright is a right extended by the government. It is an ostensibly limited monopoly on distribution. It is not a natural law and there is nothing inherently "right" about copyright, patent, trademark, or any other form of IP law. In fact, in terms of benefit to the human race, it's at best a wash.

      I respect your right to disrespect others' choices when they are shopping for civil disobedience, but I disagree with your assertion that it doesn't accomplish anything.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    63. Re:In other words... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Once they get laws passed for random home searches + stupidly high fines and direct tax revenue ( tack on a 20% charge on all media devices and funnel it back to the RIAA ) they wont have to care that they are not producing quality product that is the root of the problem.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    64. Re:In other words... by baboo_jackal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He he - +1 Funny, if I had mod points. (not in a bad way Funny, either - I thought "steal an Egg McMuffin because that's what I like and not everything on their menu is an Egg McMuffin" was funny).

      But GP had a point - record companies/iTunes/whoever are not actually providing what consumers want. I don't pretend to speak for all consumers, but I'm making this guess based on what people are stealing:

      Non-copy-protected audio files of arbitrary quality (i.e., file size and quality for however fast your tubes are and how much time you want to spend downloading files). IOW, consumers are stealing mp3's. Currently, record companies don't sell those. In fact, don't they maintain that the very existence of mp3s (and any non-protected format) of their artist's music is illegal?

      I mean, at some point, does the RIAA figure out that their member companies would actually be able to make money selling non-DRMed versions of their artists' music? They're missing out on a potentially big stream of revenue here - I mean, how many adults, with actual money, would pay $1 (or $.50, or whatever the going rate is) to quickly download a high-quality, DRM-free version of a song, with minimal hassle (and I don't mean "minimal hassle" for a typical Slashdotter, (which is to say Usenet over a 56K modem) - I mean even stupid Limewire, and messing around with torrents is a pain in the ass sometimes for technically-inclined people, let alone others.) - i.e., just go to Columbia Records' site, a few clicks, and you've got the song.

      Hell, I would even use it, if the price were right. There's a price point at which it becomes worth it just to not have to go through the few extra steps required to download a song for free. Maybe it's $.10, maybe it's $.25. Who knows. Point is, they're just plain missing out.

    65. Re:In other words... by TheLinuxSRC · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorised taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use ."

      It is not theft. You have *not* deprived the original owner of his/her property or use. It is copyright infringement. Sheesh.. I thought that was /. 101 stuff.

    66. Re:In other words... by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      I wish people would stop analogizing Intellectual Property to physical things, because it inevitably leads to someone pointing out that the owner of the IP doesn't lose anything if someone "steals" the IP, and thus it's not theft, and thus it's not wrong.

      The point is that someone obtained something of value for free, without compensating the creator of that value. Whether or not anyone was "deprived" of anything, or something was "lost", is completely immaterial.

    67. Re:In other words... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I want to see Fair Use and Copyright law changed, but in the meantime I respect the current legal framework.

      Nothing's going to change if people just obey. If everyone acted like you, that would be a huge victory for the RIAA.

      I've been *very* vocal with my local Congresscritter on this subject among others.

      And what good has that done you?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    68. Re:In other words... by Hassman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. The difference is if you don't like McDonalds, you have other choices for your 99 cent food.

      With the record industry, you don't. What the poster is saying is that the product he WANTS TO BUY doesn't exist. Therefore he has to find it less than legal ways.

      THAT is what he is saying the record companies aren't getting. They aren't offering the products the consumer wants, so they aren't selling as many CDs. Instead of fixing the situation by adjusting their business model and providing the content wanted, they cry about illegal downloaders and in doing so alienate many many others.

      They have created a situation of loathing, and because of their actions have really created several types of groups that hate them for different reasons. All driving to the end result of them selling less and less CDs.

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    69. Re:In other words... by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This analogy has gotten way out of control. And I don't even like McDonald's!

      Here's the thing - The CD cost has to support not just the artist but also the promotion and distribution of that album, plus there has to be enough revenue left over to support the label's business of representing new acts in the hope that one of them will be successful - to find that one act that people will really like they have to gamble - attract artists they think might have potential to succeed and give 'em a shot.

      I think it's a fair bet their business model will have to adjust - but to say that the cost of that $20 CD is limited just to the per-copy production cost of the disc itself is not at all realistic.

      And don't forget this one critical fact, which you gloss over in your analogy: no one is "forcing" you to pay $20 for a CD (or a McDonald's breakfast). If you don't like the price at which they're offering their product, you don't need that product. You can get entertainment (or food) elsewhere. Play by the rules, or do without. The latter option really isn't as bad as you might think.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    70. Re:In other words... by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Man, this discussion is making me hungry! First cheeseburgers, now pizza!

      Mmmmm...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    71. Re:In other words... by Zencyde · · Score: 2

      I'd probably delete my possibly illegally obtained music collection and repurchase the vast majority of it. If I could pick up an album for a dollar, I'd probably spend at least a few dollars a week on CDs... which is a good 50 or so times the amount I'm currently giving the RIAA. Here's a hint, I own very few CDs. I'm also a Linux user and don't support using DRMed songs nor do I support the use of proprietary applications with which to purchase said songs. Also, I don't like having to hold onto a physical CD for music. It takes up too much space. Ever heard of MicroSDHC technology? I can purchase a memory card that takes up less than half the area of a postage stamp that can store 8 gigabytes of MP3s (or OGG/FLAC if I'm feeling picky). Long story short, I'd go for this in a heartbeat and would possibly cease my boycott of the big 4.

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    72. Re:In other words... by Zencyde · · Score: 1

      Try Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails, and soon (it would seem( Metallica. : )

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    73. Re:In other words... by Zencyde · · Score: 1

      You sir, deserve a +1 Informafunny. : ) Oh, how I wish I had modpoints. As silly as the parent's analogy may be, it is still accurate. Plus, kudos on the new McDonalds product names.

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    74. Re:In other words... by barzok · · Score: 1

      If more bands are able to bootstrap themselves into a position where they are not selling their souls to the recording companies to get their names out
      The trouble is that the only bands that can pull that off are the big, well-established bands. Which means they have to go through the soul-selling years, hope they make it, and then be big enough that the record company will loosen the leash some because they've "proven" themselves.
    75. Re:In other words... by TechWrite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know what, from the perspective of the RIAA, I steal McMuffins all the time. Every weekend, I make scrambled eggs, sausage, and cheese on English muffins, thereby producing identical copies of McMuffins and depriving the McDonald's down the street of my $2. I know, I know, I really shouldn't admit to being such a criminal on a public website...

    76. Re:In other words... by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Music takes a negligible amount of labor to reproduce in digital formats. Emphasis mine. Just because you can make a copy of something for 5 cents doesn't mean that each copy should cost 5 cents. Distribution and manufacturing are only a small part of the expenses involved in putting out a mass media CD.

      I'm not saying that a new CD should cost $20, but to say that since the cost to produce is negligable that the cost to the consumer should be similarly low is not valid. One dollar per Non-DRM song seems pretty reasonable to me, although I think that the money should go to the artists and mixers, not record company execs.
    77. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...I do think that if a song was $0.10 or $0.25 they would sell many many more songs and it would no longer be worth wile to download illegally... I agree. I used to buy used CDs from a used record store near my house. Then I'd rip them and sell them back to the store. This meant I'd pay $3-5 for a CD, which was worth it to me.
       
      That store closed a year ago, and I haven't bought any music since.
       
      99-cents per downloadable song is stupidly expensive, considering that I can buy a BRAND NEW CD for less in many cases.
    78. Re:In other words... by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Music takes a negligible amount of labor to reproduce in digital formats.

      Emphasis mine. Just because you can make a copy of something for 5 cents doesn't mean that each copy should cost 5 cents. Distribution and manufacturing are only a small part of the expenses involved in putting out a mass media CD.

      So what's wrong with 10 cents a copy? Twice what it costs to 'distribute' an electronic copy, enough to show a profit when you sell a few million copies.

      Actually, the profit margins increase in economies of scale, as your production costs are fixed, and after the product is put into an electronic format, no further production costs are needed to produce it, just to distribute it.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    79. Re:In other words... by remmelt · · Score: 1

      It's been said that people aren't buying music as much because there's too much competition out. DVDs with your favourite tv series and movies, also in blue ray, then there's games for a variety of consoles, other digital content online, for example the monthly WoW fee.

      This is why less of the kid's dollars go to music.

    80. Re:In other words... by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      You're completely ignoring my point; there are more costs associated with putting out a CD than manufacturing.

      Let's say you have a fantastically succesful song that goes diamond (10,000,000 sold) and has $1 million in total revenues. Now take out marketing and recording costs and unless you are already an extremely well established band, (little to no marketing costs) you will be in the red.

      Ten cents per song would be awesome for the consumer but it would be totally unsustainable for the artists.

    81. Re:In other words... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you personally. There is a huge entertainment glut and I simply bypass entertainment that is too expensive (la femme nikita-- $80/season, X-Files, $75/ season) until it goes on sale ($15/season for both-- a reasonable price).

      However, artists have a right to a living, not a right to enormous wealth. Prices currently charge reflect out-dated models and it will probably take another 20 years for them to become reasonable. J.K. Rowling is an excellent example- no creative work justifies a billion dollar income- it's not a fair outcome to society as a whole. Millions of people are starving to death who would not be if the money were routed their way instead of to book creation. I believe that anything much over a lifetime's income for a single work is absurd and you should fight it anyway you can. So that would be about 40k*80 years or about 3.2 million maximum for a given creative work.

      Copyright is intended to encourage creation of works- not to make creators and their heirs and the corporation they sold the rights to impossibly wealthy forever.

      ---

      No one is forcing you-- but never in history has it been such an artificial restriction. It is literally a choice of "rent at a very high price this broken DRM'd very expensive product from us until we change formats again" or "get a superior unbroken copy you can keep forever for free". It is literally a choice between not getting the product at all (so they get no money) or getting a copy which takes nothing from them (so they also get no money). So it comes across more as sour grapes on their part than reasonable demands.

      They have set the price so high that it is a mockery and the cost of production and illegal acquisition is so low that obeying the law is widely perceived as stupid. Hell, even their own children are copying their products illegally in their own houses.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    82. Re:In other words... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
      *Jedi hand wave* Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

      Warning: Mixing "Star Wars" and "Wizard of Oz" references may cause head to explode. I.e., "Toto, I've a feeling we're not on Tatooine anymore."

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    83. Re:In other words... by Moryath · · Score: 2, Informative

      The CD cost has to support not just the artist but also the promotion and distribution of that album ...which they will charge to the artist in their corrupt and insane fraudulent contract schemes, ensuring that actual profit on the artist's part will only come about from tour/merchandise/product endorsement sales (and the MafiAA will even try to get most of THAT money too)...

      plus there has to be enough revenue left over to support the label's business of representing new acts in the hope that one of them will be successful ...which they don't do any more, instead we get mass-pushed crap of the latest Britney "boobjob" Spears/Hannah Nopantsa/K-Fed/Snoop Crapping Dogg/Cop Killa Ni**a Wannabe Poser/etc etc, courtesy of the payola system ensuring there's no decent music on the radio without shelling out $50/month for satellite radio (wonder how much stake the MafiAA had in THAT plan)...

      to find that one act that people will really like they have to gamble ...nope, they don't gamble or give new acts a chance any more, they wait until someone gets youtube/net buzz for free and THEN try to enslave them...

      I think it's a fair bet their business model will have to adjust

      Most of the ARTISTS are even saying this - in other words, the SLAVERY of the crappy contracts, of the constant accounting FRAUD by the MafiAA companies, needs to end.

      but to say that the cost of that $20 CD is limited just to the per-copy production cost of the disc itself is not at all realistic.

      Actually as far as the labels are concerned, it is. If the artist were actually getting the money, and I was satisfied I was buying a good product, great. The problem is, the MafiAA pays the artists what amounts to less than minimum wage after all the chargebacks and accounting fraud, and THEN piles it on by locking the artists into contracts for years with no way out to seek a better deal, AND then holds them hostage when they've got 1 CD to go by refusing to accept the last offered CD unless the band/artist signs their soul on for another series under the gun. End result? The artist is getting less than 1 cent of the money from that $20 CD, and any other actual services involved (studio time, mixer, etc) are getting likewise hosed.

      Artists I like who've put stuff up to purchase/download themselves? GREAT. Love it, have purchased on a regular basis.

    84. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Good point - if they could come up with a model where some consumer paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the first CD, then this buy-one-get-infinite-free model might just be crazy enough to work!

      Having said that, whether or not you convince me to not pirate is irrelevant. The point of the matter is, as long as people can easily get quality copies for cheap or free, there'll be piracy. You can't eliminate piracy, and you're a fool to try. However, if you accept that piracy will always be there, it makes more sense to compete against piracy as if it were another business. Therefore, the most sensible thing for the record companies to do is try and offer a better service than your competitors - offer then something that pirates can't offer. Increase the number of concerts - people are still paying for concerts! Increase the number of formats music is put in, and I'm not just talking about OGG vs MP3 - Records, CDs, Digital, DVD (concert recordings or DVD-A), HD, etc. Pull out all the stops to let digital stores offer the most comprehensive range of music possible - it's disgusting that a multi-billion dollar business has a poorer range of music put together by Johnny-John War3z-d00d. And for god's sake, at least offer digital copies of comparable quality! How can you expect someone who (for whatever reason) has decided to pirate to DOWNGRADE the level of quality, convenience and range, AND at the same time start paying money?

      Per Mickey-D's analogy, it's like Cheez-e Charlee Cheep Cookin' across the street offering a Big Mac clone for free, with home delivery and your choice of condiments. Sure Cheez-e Charlee's is slightly legally dubious, but a good portion of people are going to go there for as long as McDonalds doesn't compete.

    85. Re:In other words... by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      You're not paying attention. We're talking electronic media, aka, an MP3, NOT a CD.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    86. Re:In other words... by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 1

      I don't like 99 per cent of the food at McDonalds. Does that mean that I get to waltz in and steal an Egg McMuffin because that's what I like and not everything on their menu is an Egg McMuffin, so to punish them I steal and they get NO money, not even for the stuff I do like?

      You could walk in, copy the recipe and cook your own McMuffun though...

    87. Re:In other words... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      If it is costing you a million dollars to record and market a single song, you're doing it wrong.... Start out with buzz marketing---get your product into the hands of people who will review it. Next, go for broad name recognition---give away one song on the album for free on various download services. Finally, run your ads in R&R, Billboard, etc. By this time, people in the industry who read the ad recognize the name.

      If your production cost for a single song is more than five digits, you're doing something really wrong. There are plenty of great tracking studios out there that don't eat you alive. There are also plenty of mastering houses that do a reasonable job (and at least a few big-name, expensive mastering houses that don't). Shop around and ask for samples of their work before you put down a penny. If you do this, you'll find that the production costs the labels quote are vastly inflated for what you get.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    88. Re:In other words... by mi · · Score: 1

      overall quality of their pap...I mean products.

      If the quality is so bad, why are so many people downloading the stuff (illegally)? Just ignore it and read a freaking book on a train — I do... But don't try to justify theft by the "poor quality" of what's stolen (even if it is "just information").

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    89. Re:In other words... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      People have always been able to "get music for free" without piracy. Radio and MTV have always made this pretty easy. If you don't want to pay for 7/8 ths of the album from the one hit wonder band that you don't want you just stuck to listening to the radio.

      Oh come the f*ck on. You can't play your music when you want it by turning on the radio. That's preposterous.

      If you were really interested you might have gotten the 45. I still have a couple of 45's from hair bands of the 80's.

      Singles were a dying breed by the time cassettes became popular. Even then, the single cost proportionally a lot more than $.99. And that's without indexing for inflation.

      There is only so many willing buyers. Preventing the willing buyers from engaging in some form of "mooching" won't magically make them willing to cough up money.

      So...what...you're saying 100% of piracy is by people who wouldn't buy music? Because demographic analysis strongly disagrees with you. A large fraction of piracy is by college kids, who historically spent a *lot* of money on music.

      Take an ipod, put it on random and insert some commercials and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference... which is kind of the point of an ipod to begin with.

      You mean except for the commercials part? And the part about how all the music on the iPod is actually music I like? So basically they're totally different?

    90. Re:In other words... by boot_img · · Score: 1

      Two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Woody Allen
    91. Re:In other words... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work towards what goal? If you mean it doesn't work to change the minds of the RIAA dicks, then sure, you're right. If you mean it doesn't work to show just how ridiculous the RIAA's position is, then I think you're at least 100% wrong.

      What position is that? That you shouldn't be able to download whatever you want? You need to tailor your civil disobediance to your point such that the message is compelling. Downloading pop music sends the message that you're greedy and just don't want to pay for music. There's no real message there.

      On the other hand, if they started seeing a spike in 50 year old music (or however old would be in the PD now had it not been for the Bono act), the message would be very clear. It would indicate that people are exercising rights they would have had under the prior law.

      The simple truth is that copyright is not necessary for the stated goal of producing art. In fact, copyright slows the distribution of art and crap alike. Copyright is a right extended by the government. It is an ostensibly limited monopoly on distribution. It is not a natural law and there is nothing inherently "right" about copyright, patent, trademark, or any other form of IP law. In fact, in terms of benefit to the human race, it's at best a wash.

      That's entirely debatable, which is fine, but again you want to tailor your message so it isn't lost. Unless, again, your point is you just want free music. I personally disagree with a lot of that, but to each his own. But if that's your message, how do you best send it?

      I respect your right to disrespect others' choices when they are shopping for civil disobedience, but I disagree with your assertion that it doesn't accomplish anything.

      What "it" are we talking about here? I definitely believe that carefully organized disobediance can accomplish a lot. I say, just plan it so that the message is clear. The point of civil disobediance is to send a message that outsiders "get".

      I think it would be cool as hell if there was an enormous, concerted spike in torrents of specific songs the day they should have hit the PD. Or torrent the hell out of Rick Astley. The thing is, it has to stand out from the noise or no one would notice.

    92. Re:In other words... by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      I don't want to pay $10-15 to buy a CD that contains just one good song. Stop listening to crap that only has one good song. There are plenty of bands out there that put out entire albums of really good material. There's so much more music out there besides radio top 20.
    93. Re:In other words... by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Slash fiction... forming!

    94. Re:In other words... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      I do think there is room for civil disobediance here - go download music that *would* have passed into public domain before the Bono act was passed. But downloading new music while claiming evils of copyright - which many people are doing - doesn't work.

      I beg to differ. PURCHASING new music while claiming evils of copyright is what doesn't work, because you're feeding the very beasts you're trying to fight - the intermediaries. From my point of view, someone who supports the RIAA by letting them collect more than 90% of the purchase, has no right to protest against them. It would be like Gandhi accusing England of abuses while still paying the taxes (he didn't pay, and thanks to that, India became an independent country).

    95. Re:In other words... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What "it" are we talking about here? I definitely believe that carefully organized disobediance can accomplish a lot. I say, just plan it so that the message is clear. The point of civil disobediance is to send a message that outsiders "get".

      What I'm saying is that I don't see anything wrong with the message that you're just not willing to pay for music recordings any more, regardless of what the law says. This is a perfectly valid (if not reasonable - a separate topic) stance to take.

      My point isn't so much that I want free music as that we all benefit more as a species if all types of media are free.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    96. Re:In other words... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      What I'm saying is that I don't see anything wrong with the message that you're just not willing to pay for music recordings any more, regardless of what the law says. This is a perfectly valid (if not reasonable - a separate topic) stance to take.

      That's fair enough, I suppose. I agree the reasonableness (is that a word?) is a separate topic. But if one wants attention, I do think that message will get lost. And civil disobediance in a vacuum doesn't do much.

      My point isn't so much that I want free music as that we all benefit more as a species if all types of media are free.

      Don't know if I agree in the entirety, because I think that creators deserve to be compensated. But I respect your opinion. I certainly think that eliminating greedy-assed middlemen who serve no purpose would be fantastic.

    97. Re:In other words... by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Ah, but how profitable is an artist's tour going to be if nobody knows who they are? I think the label's role in promoting the band is worth something.

      Mind you, one of my all-time favorite bands was pretty much snuffed out by Capitol - had their album produced and recorded and then just sat on it for a couple years without releasing it, until finally the band called it quits. So don't think I'm too enamored with the RIAA.

      But all this is kind of irrelevant. My point is simply that you can't talk about the "cost of a CD" as though the record label does nothing but replicate them. They also backed the production of that album, taking the risk that it wouldn't sell. They need to recover those costs. I'm just saying, don't make excuses like "music is too expensive". Music costs as much as people are willing to pay for it. Stop paying the high prices and the prices will fall - but you can't blame the record companies if they want people who don't pay to not get the benefits that would normally come from buying their product...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    98. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't like 99 per cent of the food at McDonalds. Does that mean that I get to waltz in and steal an Egg McMuffin because that's what I like and not everything on their menu is an Egg McMuffin, so to punish them I steal and they get NO money, not even for the stuff I do like? How about the argument that you don't like McDonald's (not the food, but the company) and want to steal food in a deliberate attempt to hurt the company?

      The big labels are evil. They do not, I repeat, DO NOT actually give any of the money they make to most artists. New artists actually have to pay the record labels, and every red cent of profit from their first few albums goes to the label (as well as ownership of everything). Since they have no money, the artists can't sue the record labels (not that it would work with nasty contracts they're forced to sign).

      I, and anyone else that actually cares about music, want to see these companies go out of business by whatever means necessary. The big labels ignore or deliberately break most of the regulations that govern them. If the government chooses to do nothing in light of this evil, I'd argue that people who care about music have a MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to go after the record labels any way they can.

    99. Re:In other words... by rtechie · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that during the 80's and 90's the music was just so good that people wouldn't steal it if they had the chance? Wrong, Record stores (back when such things existed) had very significant losses from theft. And you and everyone you've ever met has made analog copies of CDs. Mix tapes, etc. The moment CD recorders became widely available CD dupes started to appear everywhere. It would've happened much sooner but the RIAA killed consumer DAT for exactly this reason.

      If the music is as bad as you say, why do people want to steal it? Because stealing pop music helps artists and hurts the big labels.

      Itunes has proven that many people in fact will pay for todays music, ITunes has proven that if you make a very popular MP3 player that forces people to use a proprietary sandbox to handle your music that pushes you towards paid music downloads some small fraction of users will buy DRM-encumbered downloads. 80-90% of music on most iPods is pirated. Steve Jobs himself has said that paid downloads are extremely unpopular.

    100. Re:In other words... by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 1

      "This analogy has gotten way out of control."

      You mean this analogy has become AWESOME!

    101. Re:In other words... by claytonjr · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I stand by what I said. It is theft, if you deprive the owner the monetary value that he/she was asking for so you could have the music in the first place.

    102. Re:In other words... by Phrogz · · Score: 1

      Of course, it would be unrealistic to argue that every, single unauthorized copy is a "lost sale," but arguing the opposite is equally silly.
      I object to the use of "lost sale." I would rather see "missed sale." A "loss" is a legal term used for theft. [...] When someone copys a book, what has the author or bookstore or trade association "lost"? They still have all their copies in storage. They still have the copyright. They still have all the money they had before. There is no loss. Nothing is missing.

      To bandy words, an "opportunity" is an intangible thing that can almost certainly be agreed upon to exist while at the same time never being a sure thing.

      "Dude, that move totally impressed her! She's smiling at you! Go say something witty, this is your opportunity to start a good conversation with an attractive woman!"

      "Aw, nevermind...Pat just told her about your goat porn collection."

      ...

      An opportunity can also palpably be lost, or be taken away.

      Imagine you operate a store selling clothes that are the latest fashion, heavily in demand. You're selling heavily every day and making massive profit. Now people outside the store somehow manage to convince customers that the fashion is stupid. Nobody wants to buy your goods.

      There was no guarantee you were going to sell to as many people today as yesterday, but the opportunity looked good. You still have all your inventory. Nothing has been 'lost'...and yet suddenly you're making a lot less than you were before.

      I don't personally believe 99% of what the RIAA says about their profits and piracy and such. Yet I cannot reject an argument that says that piracy reduces some demand. (Not every download is a lost sale, but it slowly adds up.)

      I also don't personally know if I believe that the current model of capitalism and 'ownership' makes sense. I'm not saying that I believe that it's necessarily immoral to deprive the RIAA of that revenue. But you can't say that piracy results in "no loss" for the 'legal' purveyors of the booty.

    103. Re:In other words... by adona1 · · Score: 1

      What you say is true, but only for a period - it's fair to say that after a few years any costs that would have been recovered have been, however prices don't tend to drop for older CDs the way they do for older DVDs. Sgt Pepper is seldom below AUD$25 and I'm fairly certain it made its production costs back quite a few years ago, expensive as it may have been.

      --
      Between the falling angel and the rising ape
    104. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 1

      If I had to pay $10-15 worth of McDonald's BLTs, Salads, Cokes, and other crap I don't like, just so I can get my one egg mcmuffin.....

      But McDonald's doesn't do that. McDonald's let me buy the single egg mcmuffin by itself, and so too should RIAA allow me to buy $1 non-compressed CD quality songs.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    105. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 1

      You're right about the marketing costs, but if the cassette costs $8.00, why does the CD cost $15.00?

      The answer of course is that they are gouging your wallet & being greedy by marking-up the CD almost 200%.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    106. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 1

      JK Rowling is likely to be a one-hit wonder, so she's earned 1 billion.... over an entire lifetime. That's about $20 million per working year, which is still fairly high, but not unreasonable for someone who is a #1 author worldwide.

      MOST authors barely earn $20,000 a year... not much better than working fulltime at Walmart.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    107. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 1

      P.S.

      Most promotion happens via radio airplay, and since radio stations are required to pay ~1/2 penny every time a song airs, the record companies are basically getting paid to promote.

      How convenient.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    108. Re:In other words... by electrictroy · · Score: 1

      >>>"Stop listening to crap that only has one good song. There are plenty of bands out there that put out entire albums of really good material."

      In the last twenty years I've heard a lot of people make that claim. But so far none of the bands they recommended lived-up to the hype. There were still just 1 or 2 good songs per CD.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    109. Re:In other words... by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      I don't like 99 per cent of the food at McDonalds. Does that mean that I get to waltz in and steal an Egg McMuffin because that's what I like and not everything on their menu is an Egg McMuffin

      No, but you can make Egg McMuffins at home to the exact same recipe as McDonalds use, and you can even show your friends how to do the same if you like. You save an enormous amount of money on Egg McMuffins and so do all your friends.

      Of course then the original creative artist who came up with the Egg McMuffin recipe does not get his royalties from McDonalds, and the likelihood of McDonalds coming up with brand new tasty snacks in future is substantially reduced. But of course we don't give a shit, we have our home-made pirate Egg McMuffins and that suits us just fine.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    110. Re:In other words... by JohhnyTHM · · Score: 1
      I do the same, but there is another way to enjoy your music.


      I stopped buying RIAA affiliated music about four years ago, but since then have probably
      spent about £3000 on independents, concerts & festivals. Thats including tickets, accomodation, tshirts, food, beer and CDs bought direct from the artist. My girlfriend was at all of these with me and probably spent a similar ammount.


      I would like to thank the RIAA for pissing me off so much that I turned my back on them. I would never have blown that kind of money buying CDs, but have enjoyed myself more and discovered more new bands than I could have ever hoped for. Thanks RIAA, you're doing a great job (just not for your members).

    111. Re:In other words... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      There were some proposed rule changes in that area, but last I remembered, they just paid money to the composer and the publisher, not to the record company (unless the record company happens to own the rights to the underlying song as a work for hire).

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    112. Re:In other words... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      This all boils down to you being too much of a pretenious wanker to be able to find a local radio station you like.

      Here's a surprise for you: most people aren't like you.

      While the commercials are certainly annoying, they don't alter the fact that the content allows
      me to enjoy a number of acts that I have never directly contributed to. These "evil" radio
      stations have allowed me to "steal" off of these artists for years and even sometimes decades.

      Add something like Pandora into the picture an your weak objections to radio completely fall away.

      On the one hand, Pandora has allowed me to realize there's a whole lot of stuff I've listened
      to for years that I don't own copies of. On the other hand, Pandora allows me to keep on avoiding
      those purchases indefinitely while also avoiding the pitfalls of terrestrial radio.

      Although it's easy enough to channel surf radio stations (if you aren't such a pretentious
      wanker that nothing satisifies you anyways).

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    113. Re:In other words... by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      The analogy was weak. But the original argument was even weaker. I'm sick of hearing people whine about how there's only "one good song on this album".

      Either (a) they have crap taste in music or (b) aren't willing to listen to something that wasn't released as a single on the radio. As someone who actually loves music and doesn't just put it on because I'm afraid of silence, I wish these people would quit parading their opinion around like it's science.

      There's good music out there. Good enough that it's worth paying for an album's worth. I download music too, as well as buy it. I don't try and rationalize the former. Besides, songs can be bought a-la-carte online. If such people don't want to open their ears to something they (god forbid) haven't heard before, they have that option. Oh wait, they cost upwards of 99 cents, and who in the hell can afford that?

    114. Re:In other words... by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      Right, there is always that option. Like all choices, there are consequences as well. In this case you can choose to be honorable, or not.

      As I keep saying, I download a ton of music. It's not a really bad thing, especially if it's an RIAA artist. It's not a terribly honest thing, either.

      But why the hell do people justify their downloading by saying the music sucks? I am a musician. If you download my album, go ahead. Listen and enjoy, that's all I want. But to then say, "I'm not going to pay you for this because 3/4 of it sucked"...well, that's pretty subjective, ain't it? Your opinion is not what spins the world on its axis. And what's *not* subjective is the fact that it cost me money to record. But I guess we shouldn't get in the way of people's well-thought out solipsism. If you say it sucks, then I guess you deserve to get it for free. It's like Economy 2.0 or something.

    115. Re:In other words... by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of independent artists out there, who have more "traditional" record deals...you give us your material + the right to distribute it. We give you help with a tour, money to record, some marketing. It's not a bad deal, though many artists do get shafted. Anyway my point was, I have heard far better bands just going out to the bar than I do on the radio. And I make sure to support them. It's money well spent and none of it gets funneled to Sony or whoever.

      ...Guns 'n' Roses? Seriously? :D

    116. Re:In other words... by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      Agree 100%. And I have to say that downloading music that would be public domain, if not for the CTEA, is a great idea. There's some great stuff there. "Rhapsody in Blue" for starters. That work belongs to the public, and they stole it from us. "I'm Sitting on Top of the World" is another one. "Yes! Sir, That's My Baby", "Tea for Two".

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_in_music (and 25, 26, 27, etc.)

  2. Better technology? Why are CD's still around? by fatnicky · · Score: 0

    Better technology? You mean the better technology that's making you deliver digital content to the masses in DRM Free formats the consumer demands?

    --
    Free childcare classifieds: www.carebrite.com
  3. I call BS. by Tavor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not better technology, it's better targeting. College students are 'soft targets'. They have limited funds, hence they are more liable to share music and less likely to be able to fight back. The RIAA doesn't want to try and extort from someone capable of fighting back, you know.

    --
    Windows has detected an undetectable error.
    1. Re:I call BS. by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's a good theory, but it has some flaws. For example, they're still going after universities with good law schools as well as ivy league schools.

      The law schools have a chance to fight back and have the resources to put up a decent struggle. And many students attending law schools have parents with money and/or connections.

      I'm not saying those 2 scenarios invalidate your theory, but something to think about.

    2. Re:I call BS. by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Given what has been the standard university response so far (with a few notable exceptions) the type of school the student goes to is much less important than just about anything else, they'll still likely give the student up and do nothing to help.

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    3. Re:I call BS. by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 1

      Definitely. If they know that every infringement notice to the campus costs some poor student $50, thats even better than actually having to sue them.

    4. Re:I call BS. by GogglesPisano · · Score: 1

      Is it really better targeting? I'd say that college students compose a very large percentage of their market. I know that I listened to (and purchased) a lot more music in my college years than I do now. In addition, in just a few years these well-educated "soft targets" are going to be the high-earning consumers (and potential policy makers) that this industry needs to survive. Do they really want to intimidate and terrorize these people? Obviously the RIAA (and the cartels pulling the strings) are failing to take the long view on this matter.

    5. Re:I call BS. by penguin_dance · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not better technology, it's better targeting. College students are 'soft targets'. They have limited funds, hence they are more liable to share music and less likely to be able to fight back. The RIAA doesn't want to try and extort from someone capable of fighting back, you know.

      Naaah, it's because that's the age group that's downloading most of what's out there. Most of us old foggies with such an inclination have already either bought and/or downloaded all the music they want. The stuff they have coming out today is crap. If they wanted to sell music, they should have been marketing to baby-boomers with disposable income (and technically, probably less aware of how to find and download the illegal stuff) instead of poor college students!

      Now, get off my lawn!

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    6. Re:I call BS. by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      GP never mentioned that the system as a whole was better, just that they can round up more victims with this targeting.

      And since when have you known the RIAA to take the long view into consideration?

    7. Re:I call BS. by conlaw · · Score: 1

      It's not better technology, it's better targeting. You mean they've really figured out a way to target downloaders without having a Media Sentry involved in unlicensed investigating?

    8. Re:I call BS. by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good point. Also, I think the real goal of the RIAA is to shape public perception. There are two ways of looking at this whole "file sharing" thing. Either:

      • This is all about the steady march of progress, and the interplay between changes in technology and changes in society. The record industry originated out of new technology that allowed sound to be recorded, and will undergo some change as physical distribution becomes obsolete. So it goes.

      -or-

      • This is all about people who lack a sense of fairness, trying to get something for nothing. People are tearing down societal rules and mores in order to satisfy their immediate urges without any consideration for the damage they're doing to our current system. Our current system works and is good, and to dismantle it is needless destruction.

      Now obviously the record industry would like us all to accept the second explanation. But really, right now they only need older people to accept the second explanation, because older people tend to have more power. It's lucky for them, since older people are tend to dislike change, and tend to see things exactly in this way.

      And who do older people usually think are "trying to get something for nothing" and "tearing down societal rules and mores... without any consideration for the damage they're doing to our current system"? Young people. Therefore, if they are targeting college kids specifically, it's probably a pretty crafty move.

      I mean, they may as well group "file sharing" in with drug use, promiscuous and unprotected sex, binge drinking, drag racing, school shootings, and rap music. Forget the fact that the whole internet is really a large P2P system, and "P2P protocols" are just a more advanced method of distributing load. Oh, and pay no attention to the fact that the music industry itself used to be that scary/subversive thing that old people feared.

    9. Re:I call BS. by dafrazzman · · Score: 0

      Do you speak from experience? I've spoken to Bit torrent and limewire people from my university. The standard practice there is for the student to write an essay on why it is bad, after the dean has a nice talk with him. If there is a second offense, they would let the RIAA deal with it. That's a much fairer warning than you can expect anywhere else in life. If students continue to share copyrighted materials after that, it's not because they're poor, but because they're utterly foolish.

      --
      My preferred name is frazz, but someone keeps taking it. If you see him, tell him I said hi.
    10. Re:I call BS. by misterhypno · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the law schools are NOT going to protect the students charged with illegally downloading music - at least not without the student having to pay the law school SOMETHING, not to mention the mandatory court costs, fees, deposition transcriptionist fees, ad nauseam, which many students simply cannot afford.

      Add to that the fact that a court trial, even the prep time, TAKES TIME, which, for a student in a degree program, simply cannot afford to use up, either, as many of their classes happen during business hours as well, when the law school's legal aid offices are open.

      Time lost from study + money lost to legal expenses over possible legal losses from the RIAA running the clock out to nearly forever through the use of continuances and out-of-state venues FOR their cases = a broke student who has flunked out of the degree program they were IN, who is in debt forever to the RIAA as well as to the courts.

      Not a pretty picture.

      The RIAA seems to be banking on this and, to be honest, mailing more threatening letters on their way TO the bank.

      And the above paradigm works whether the student is guilty of illegal downloading or NOT.

      Which sucks for the student and is rapidly becoming what seems to be a second-stream cash-cow for the RIAA... and the recording ARTISTS, whom the RIAA is SUPPOSED to be PROTECTING, never see DIME ONE OF ANY OF THESE MONIES!

      How "fair" is that?

    11. Re:I call BS. by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's part of what pisses me off. I'm 56, long out of college, have a halfway decent job, turn on the radio and what do I hear?

      I hear shit that's targeted to unemployed twelve year olds. And the RIAA complains about losing sales? How is someone with NO MONEY supposed to buy your crap?

      Do they have any fucking idea how many LPs, cassettes, and CDs I've bought in the last 40 years since I got a paying job? And how shitty today's music is to my old-skool rock'n'roll ears? The only mainstream band from this century I like is Buckcherry, and I wonder how they ever got a record contract. All today's shit is Simon Cowell Production-like, minor key wimpy emo shit they call "rock", rap (hint: black people my age hate rap even more than I do), tuneless screaming hardcore, and the like.

      Find another Zeppelin. Find another Hagar. Find another Pink Floyd. Find another Stones. Find another Chuck Berry. Find another Alice in Chains. Because we have money. Twelve year olds don't you damned cocaine-soaked idiots!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    12. Re:I call BS. by Ohio+Calvinist · · Score: 1

      I think a big reason the RIAA targets college students is for the following--

      1) If they can win a big case in *any* state and set precedence forcing the college to comply, they'll have a gold mine in that state for that school and potentially others.

      2) College bandwidth is limited. In many cases at the college I worked for, the LAN (residential network) was pegged at 90% capacity due to intra-institutional P2P traffic. If the RIAA finds a particularly weak board of trustees and/or a particularly sympathetic net admin, they might get cooperation (see #1). At my institution, upper management was not supportive of the RIAA but the net admins were not excited to see the network flooded with traffic they considered "not in alignment with the mission of the insitution", (at another insitution I worked for 95% of traffic was myspace or facebook, which we were not permitted to block, was the bane of our net-admins existance when remote sites exchange or smb:// connection was laggy.

      3) Schools have a greater ability to tie a IP/MAC to a person/dorm room than the cable company. Student installed APs were banned, and to get on the network, you had to pay $25 to get your MAC registered in BOOTP, which was tied to your name. Disclaimer: I'm not aruging that either of these things readily identify a person with 100% accuracy, but, it does chip away reasonable doubt with naive judges and juries.

      4) If the school has to shell out money to defend against the **AA, their bottom line might overtake their ideals and management might force an unwilling (or bless a willing) IT departments attempts to throttle or outright block access to P2P services, and use that fact to try to strongarm other (smaller) schools who don't have pockets nearly so deep.

      5) Everything the parent said.

      6)They are simply asshole bullies.

      --
      Forgive my spelling from time to time. I'm often posting during short breaks.
    13. Re:I call BS. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      The other thing: College students are more likely to be idealists and have lots of time on their hands. Not the kind of person that you should go up against in a fight especially when they group up.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    14. Re:I call BS. by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      I mean, they may as well group "file sharing" in with drug use, promiscuous and unprotected sex, binge drinking, drag racing, school shootings, and rap music. I think that they are already close to grouping file sharing with drug use, drag racing, etc. The only thing stopping it is the fact that it's not part of a sub-culture. It's damn near everyone.
      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    15. Re:I call BS. by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. This gets at the root of the problem with the record industry's business model. They should be fostering a younger generation of music as an investment and spend their big marketing dollars on middle aged people. It's difficult to accept an argument that the RIAA is losing money due to file sharing when most people I know who download music wouldn't be able to afford it anyways. When I hear a new Tantric or Pink Floyd (I found a new Pink Floyd at a folk festival, but they have no record deals), I go buy their stuff. Until then, I will continue to buy second hand albums from used CD stores. Gotta cut down on adding to the landfills afterall.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    16. Re:I call BS. by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The proper defense against these types of tactics is for the students to become certified as class of wrongfully prosecuted and legally harassed college students. Then it doesn't matter that the students are individually weak or that they won't individually see a lot of money in damages, because the potential losses for the RIAA and their members if they should lose could be very terrible indeed. Class actions are the nuclear weapons of the legal profession and they force even the largest corporations and conglomerates to take notice.

    17. Re:I call BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is someone with NO MONEY supposed to buy your crap? The RIAA members know who have the money, but they also know how to get at that money. Through the 12 whiney brats.

      It comes down to lack of parenting. Or mom and dad feeling guilty that they are never around because they feel they need to have two incomes to get the brats everything they ask for. Mom and dad would rather buy the little snots whatever they want just so the kids will STFU.

      If parents would just step up and give their kids what they actually need, like food, shelter, love, and ATTENTION. They wouldn't need a second job to pay for little Timmy's daycare and all the other crap they buy for him to make up for the time they don't spend with him.
    18. Re:I call BS. by shentino · · Score: 1

      Funny thing is that college students are likely to be subject to an "at will" clause of sorts that specifically gives the university the right to revoke anyone's internet access at any time for any or no reason.

      Case in point: My own college. The EUP (Electronic Use Policy) specifically states that I can be asked to leave at any time by staff.

    19. Re:I call BS. by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      The days of single income families are numbered. Sure you can live off of a single income (if one of you has a decently paying job). It'll be annoying, but it's doable. I know that I could not afford to support a wife and a kid on my entry level engineer income of $47,000 and expect to live comfortably and save money for unexpected expenses.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    20. Re:I call BS. by oldgeezer1954 · · Score: 1

      I agree totally with you. I'm 54. I had close to a thousand lp's, anywhere from 5-700 tapes, and have about 600 cd's. In the past three years I've bought maybe three cd's and I don't download music. Most of the cd's I own are merely format change versions of prior albums I owned. The crap being marketed is intended for preteens (hell even my kid is 30 so I'm not buying for him anymore). Even if they addressed the target market issue I'd be hard pressed to go back to buying them though as my preference has moved onto dvd. Unfortunately there's not really much choice of selection there either.... Buckcherry sucks. Nickelback rules! :)

    21. Re:I call BS. by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Most of the cd's I own are merely format change versions of prior albums I owned

      Sometimes folks remark how good my car stereo sounds, and invariably it's a CD that I made from an LP. I wrote a how-to a few years ago. The secret to a good sounding CD is finding a damned good turntable.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    22. Re:I call BS. by rpillala · · Score: 1

      That's part of what pisses me off. I'm 34, long out of college, have a halfway decent job, turn on the radio and what do I hear?

      I hear shit that's targeted to unemployed twelve year olds. And the RIAA complains about losing sales? How is someone with NO MONEY supposed to buy your crap?

      Do they have any fucking idea how many LPs, cassettes, and CDs I've bought in the last 11 years since I got a paying job? And how shitty today's music is to my old-skool rap ears? The only mainstream band from this century I like is (hm I can't think of anything), and I wonder how they ever got a record contract. All today's shit is Simon Cowell Production-like, minor key wimpy emo shit they call "rock", "rap" (hint: any rapper with "li'l" in their name doesn't count), tuneless screaming hardcore, and the like.

      Find another Gang Starr. Find another Ultramagnetic MC's. Find another Public Enemy. Find another 3rd Bass. Find another Masta Ace. Find another Casual. Because we have money. Twelve year olds don't you damned cocaine-soaked idiots!

      ---

      I don't mean to contradict your post completely, because I pretty much feel the same way as you but it's going back to the late 80's/early 90's in rap music. Sure, there was a lot of crap, but the classic rock period had its share of crap too. Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, et al have stood the test of time. I think my school newspaper (I teach high school) had the best rebuttal of modern "rap" by calling someone a "ringtone rapper" in an album review.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    23. Re:I call BS. by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Heh. As a youngster of only 41, I have to totally agree about Buckcherry. Only CD that I've personally bought in the last 7 years I believe. However, as someone who lived through the 80's and saw cocaine take out all his heroes, I find Lit Up kind of sad. Still rocks though.

      Hmmm...actually I bought a Nickleback CD too. I think the Nickleback guy is a bit misguided though. They are very good, and show spurts of actual brilliance from time to time. But Buckcherry just *rocks*.

      What I've heard of Jet is really good too. Haven't listened to a whole album of theirs yet though.

    24. Re:I call BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Find another Zeppelin. Find another Hagar. Find another Pink Floyd. Find another Stones. Find another Chuck Berry. Find another Alice in Chains.
      They found this wonderful indie band called Franz Ferdinand... and, for their 2nd album, compressed them into the stratosphere to make them sound just like every other super-loud piece of shit out there.
    25. Re:I call BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By listing Buckcherry as your favorite new band, you automatically lose all credibility in discussing music.

    26. Re:I call BS. by Frenchy_2001 · · Score: 1

      Dont forget also that the RIAA is trying to pass laws that would tie government financing of schools to their efforts in stemming piracy.
      Targetting a lot of college students will help make their case:
        - look, we have 10x more college students receiving our warnings this month! they are pirating more and more! Colleges need to add filters from our partners!

      Of course, this is a fallacy, provided they are the ones sending the notes, but it will still fly in congress...

    27. Re:I call BS. by rtechie · · Score: 1

      The law schools have a chance to fight back and have the resources to put up a decent struggle. And many students attending law schools have parents with money and/or connections. Accept that they don't. Ever. No university has yet been willing to spend the money required to fight the RIAA. The record labels are willing to spend MILLIONS on such cases because (in the USA) the big labels are rapidly evolving into lawsuit engines because of "Pinto" calculations. Unless those parents are willing to put up $100K+ simply to prove a point, this isn't happening.

      What are "Pinto" calculations? Ford famously calculated that the price of lawsuits over the exploding Pintos did not exceed the cost of fixing the exploding Pintos, therefore they did not fix the Pintos. The RIAA has calculated the cost of all the lawsuits against users (and it's a lot of money) does not exceed the losses they would suffer from switching to online music. As others have pointed out, out of the $15 you're charged for a full CD album about $12 is profit. Since most online buyers would only buy a few tracks (say 3) at $0.99 off a given album that would represent a massive loss of profits. That's why we don't have CD singles either.

    28. Re:I call BS. by rtechie · · Score: 1

      Find another Zeppelin. Find another Hagar. Find another Pink Floyd. Find another Stones. Find another Chuck Berry. Find another Alice in Chains. Some of us are glad that we've moved on from hair metal and arena rock.

      You're also forgetting about all the incredible shit that was released during the 1970's. Way more people bought Saturday Night Fever than any Floyd album.

    29. Re:I call BS. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Find another Zeppelin. Find another Hagar. Find another Pink Floyd. Find another Stones. Find another Chuck Berry. Find another Alice in Chains. Because we have money. Twelve year olds don't you damned cocaine-soaked idiots!
      Completely agree but...
      They cant.

      The "industry" really has become like any other manufacturing industry with quaterly quota's, R&D, unchanging production methods. Pop and Rap "star" are stamped out as if they were knives or forks and are just as disposable. Current production methods are, take person > give image > produce CD as opposed to the old methods, scout for talent > make offer > give them cash to make record > take cash from record, the failure rate for the old method is high which is why the recording industry doesn't like it. Right now the "artists" have rarely performed music prior to being signed and music producers aren't interested in looking at bands that have clawed their way out of obscurity. For example, Pearl Jam was good (opinions may vary but I liked them and they sold well), Nickelback was signed because they sounded sort of like Pearl Jam (I hate Nickelback) and Creed was signed because they sounded like nickelback (Creed are worse than Nickelback). They're trying to sell the same tired product over and over again and aren't willing in the slightest to take a risk on something new.

      The whole reason for having a music industry is so that someone has the money to actually fund new and original works which can adsorb the cost of the high rate of failure, right now the industry is doing the opposite by ignoring new acts and focusing on reproducing what they sold last year (and then wondering why sales are down). Music (and sales) will not improve whilst the industry thinks the payout for reproducing old work is more than the perceived loss of supporting original acts.

      To put it simply, the industry is looking for the next Britney spears and the next Led Zeppelin the problem that they don't realize is "there was no Zeppelin before Zeppelin, they were original and there is no way to stamp originality out in a factory".

      For the record, I'm 25 and feel exactly the way you do when I turn on the radio (explains why I go out of my way to avoid it).
      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    30. Re:I call BS. by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      ...says the anonymous coward!

      -mcgrew
      (swears at slashdot for its stupid anti-literacy filter that won't let you post a four word reply to a comment that is in its message center without giving you a blank page and scolding you for hitting "submit" sixteen seconds after hitting "reply". Mods, this poaragraph is filler so I don't get that same fucktarded message again.)

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    31. Re:I call BS. by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      For example, Pearl Jam was good (opinions may vary but I liked them and they sold well), Nickelback was signed because they sounded sort of like Pearl Jam (I hate Nickelback) and Creed was signed because they sounded like nickelback (Creed are worse than Nickelback).

      For the record, I'm 25 and feel exactly the way you do when I turn on the radio

      There's still hope for the world! Pearl Jam was indeed good, Nickleback was indeed crap and Creed was indeed even crappier crap than crap!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  4. Technology that is helping catch more criminals by hansraj · · Score: 5, Funny

    Previous technology: Flip a coin. Heads -> you are innocent.

    New_and_Improved technology: Throw a die. 1 -> you are innocent.

    1. Re:Technology that is helping catch more criminals by Astadar · · Score: 1

      Next advance: d20. Still 1 -> you are innocent.

      --
      --Coming up with something clever... please wait...
  5. The future? by Swizec · · Score: 5, Funny

    So how long before they target kindergartens? Those little bastards aren't buying any CD's, clearly they're stealing them!

  6. Tagged: yeahriht by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This isn't about technology. The RIAA's aggresive war against users isn't based on good or bad technology. It's just a bunch of lies.

    * An IP address can't be used to pinpoint a user, and that's a FACT. What does that have to do with better technology?
    * The companies they hired to do their investigations weren't authorized by the government. That's ILLEGAL. What does that have to do with better technology?

    1. Re:Tagged: yeahriht by Rorschach1 · · Score: 1

      This sounds like trolling to me, but I'll bite. IP addresses can't be pinpointed to a user? Maybe not 100%, but certainly in most circumstances well enough to hold up in court, assuming you have a timestamp and the provider has proper logs. It's good enough for the FBI, why wouldn't it be good enough for the RIAA?

      Why would you have to be authorized by the government to monitor file sharing traffic and send take-down notices? I'm sure there are regulations covering private investigators, but it's not at all clear to me that monitoring online activity and looking up IP addresses in WHOIS constitutes PI activities.

    2. Re:Tagged: yeahriht by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      You're wrong, at least partially, on both counts.

      IP addresses can be, with proper logs, tied to one computer or connection. There is almost no way to prove that a specific individual was the one using that computer or connection at the time without evidence such as a video of the person using the computer.

      The local government in many states requires a license for the types of activity that MediaSentry was involved in. MediaSentry acted without any license in many of those states. Massachusetts officials have specifically banned MediaSentry from operating in their state, and the Michigan state prosecutor is working to file charges against the company.

      Are you new here?

    3. Re:Tagged: yeahriht by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Courts were ignorant of technology but you really can't do better than circumstantial evidence for I.P. -> user.

      There are no witnesses and no photographic records.

      Slashdot... soo..

      It's like if your car was used in a bank robbery.
      And you are picked up the next day driving your car to work.

      Can they prove that you the bank robber with no other evidence?

      I mean, you didn't report the car stolen.
      It's your car.
      You are driving it after the crime was committed.

      And with computers, it's even possible that your car was being driven remotely from another country (if you've been pwned by malware).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    4. Re:Tagged: yeahriht by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      This sounds like trolling to me, but I'll bite. IP addresses can't be pinpointed to a user? Maybe not 100%, but certainly in most circumstances well enough to hold up in court, assuming you have a timestamp and the provider has proper logs. It's good enough for the FBI, why wouldn't it be good enough for the RIAA?

      It is enough to generate Probable Cause for a warrant. It is not enough for a conviction. The FBI will raid with nothing more than an IP address, but they will not arrest with nothing more than an IP address. The RIAA is expecting a conviction with nothing more than an IP address. Do you honestly think those two situations are the same? Do you think that the FBI being unwilling to arrest with just and IP address means it is "good enough" for them?

      Why would you have to be authorized by the government to monitor file sharing traffic and send take-down notices?

      You don't have to be. However, if you are investigating a person for the purposes of a legal proceeding, the people you hire for investigations must be licensed in that state. The reasonings for that is to prevent stalking, ensure validity of evidence collected, protect civil rights, and have bonding/insurance in case one of the previous isn't followed. You can investigate yourself without being licensed, but if you hire someone and pay them for it, they must be licensed. If they had done it all in-house, then they would have been fine.

      I'm sure there are regulations covering private investigators, but it's not at all clear to me that monitoring online activity and looking up IP addresses in WHOIS constitutes PI activities.

      Are they paying someone to investigate supposed illegal activity for the purposes of legal action? If yes, then no matter how trivial the "monitoring" of a person, it would be covered by PI rules. You may not like it, but it is quite clear and unabmiguous, and there for very good reasons.

    5. Re:Tagged: yeahriht by seandiggity · · Score: 1

      On a college campus, especially a large one with wireless network(s), identifying users by IP address is an inaccurate science at best, asinine at worst. Shared wireless/wired access points in dorms, apartments, frat houses, computer labs, libraries, coffee shops, etc. further complicate the situation

      The RIAA doesn't seem to care if they catch their "criminals"; they're out for blood. The hope is that a few users will be investigated/handed over by their colleges. Then some of the casual P2P users on campuses will stop downloading or turn to smarter filesharing methods.

      In the RIAA fantasy world, the outcome is that everyone but a few "bad apples" will stop downloading music except via the (RIAA owned and approved) channels.

      --
      Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
  7. RIAA causes Mystery Rash in College by muellerr1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've always thought you should use plenty of soap and water after contact with the RIAA. You never know what you'll catch.

    1. Re:RIAA causes Mystery Rash in College by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You never know what you'll catch.

      You are in violation of Epic Records' copyright of Cheap Trick's song Surrender. Their lawyers will be contacting you shortly.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  8. No Mystery by slagheap · · Score: 5, Funny

    Principal Skinner: There's no mystery about what happened to Groundskeeper Willy. Why, he simply disappeared. Now let's have no more questions about this bizarre coverup.

    --
    First against the wall when the revolution comes
  9. Art will cost money for business purposes only by Bragador · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I, myself, am creating art. Photos and a bit of music. Also some mediocre short stories. While my products are definitely not good enough yet to ask money for them, I can understand the desire to earn a living by doing what you like the most.

    I think that all digital art will become free for those who do not want to earn money from it. If a magazine wants to use one of your photos or if a corporation wants to use your music for an add, you should get paid. The rest will come from donations from fans or derived products.

    But yes, you wont be able to earn as much money that way and the RIAA will milk the old system dry before adapting. This is logical. Even the oil industry will pull something like that. I'm sure of it.

    1. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even the oil industry will pull something like that. I'm sure of it.
      Let me know when you can make a perfect copy of a barrel of oil at incremental (less than a penny) cost. Then we might have something.
    2. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      I think that all digital art will become free for those who do not want to earn money from it. If a magazine wants to use one of your photos or if a corporation wants to use your music for an add, you should get paid. The rest will come from donations from fans or derived products. If you think this kind of business model will work for commodity software, such as computer games, you're out of your mind. (And no, selling support won't work for games, go away Stallmanites, and no, selling content won't work because they'll pirate that too. There are some goods, even electronic ones, that require strong copyright, and you can shove it if you want to tell me that you'll just steal it with no thought to the creator.)
      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    3. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by Bragador · · Score: 1

      I was merely saying that the oil corporations will do whatever they can to make sure other alternatives are not used. They will protect their market.

    4. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by Bragador · · Score: 1

      Good point. I didn't think about games and movies. I only had music and pictures in my mind.

      On the other hand, there are independant movies being shown in a lot of cities (see Kino clubs) and there are independant games being made. These are not hollywood style blockbuster products but they are fun and interesting nonetheless.

    5. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Selling support for games makes Blizzard Entertainment more than a billion dollars a year. In Korea, they give World of Warcraft away for free, just to make it easier to get customers wanting support.

    6. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then don't make it.. then the would-be 'pirates' will have to make it themselves. go do something that will make you money instead of asking the government to prop up your business model.

    7. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Selling support for games makes Blizzard Entertainment more than a billion dollars a year. In Korea, they give World of Warcraft away for free, just to make it easier to get customers wanting support.

      So you want nothing but subscription games? I don't want everything to become an MMO, do you?

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    8. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      then don't make it.. then the would-be 'pirates' will have to make it themselves. go do something that will make you money instead of asking the government to prop up your business model.

      The stupidity of this (AC-posted) comment is so utterly plain that it stands for itself. Let me quote something to you, though.

      To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

      So like it or not, securing for limited times is Constitutional. What the RIAA does is bad. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is idiotic.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    9. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      No, I don't want everything to be an MMO. But I am saying that there is clearly a viable business model in selling support for video games.

    10. Re:Art will cost money for business purposes only by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      That's nonsense, because no such model exists outside of an MMO-type game with company-operated central servers. If you aren't selling an MMO, you aren't selling anything that can have "support" that also doesn't require copyright protection because that's the only thing the user still has to pay you for (and then, if the GPL zealots had their way, not even then).

      How do you propose to offer "support" for games that don't require an external server for players to connect to? What value-add is there over the base software that does not also require copyright protection (because episodic content goes out the window too).

      The only way that Blizzard's "support" makes money is because they are essentially selling software as a service, which doesn't work for non-MMOs.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  10. Better technology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They got a faster laser printer.

  11. actual infringers? by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

    aggressively targeting users who merely make downloaded music available to others rather than actual infringers

    Aren't the folks making music available the actual infringers? (Assuming the conversation is limited to music copyrighted by an RIAA member and not openly traded such as in the case of bands who allow taping and trading of tapes of live shows.)

    Who are the actual infringers, if not the folks making the music available to others?

    1. Re:actual infringers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aren't the folks making music available the actual infringers? (Assuming the conversation is limited to music copyrighted by an RIAA member and not openly traded such as in the case of bands who allow taping and trading of tapes of live shows.)

      Who are the actual infringers, if not the folks making the music available to others?

      If I leave my apartment door open and you walk in and help yourself to my friend's beer, who's the thief: you or me? Even if I advertise on Craigslist "my friend's beer is unguarded in my unlocked apartment", it's still you stealing it...at best, I'm contributing to your stealing it.
    2. Re:actual infringers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That sentence alludes to the "making available" debate. Is merely offering a song in a P2P program ("making available") already copyright infringement or is only the actual act of making a copy an infringement?

    3. Re:actual infringers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who modded up this nonsense? Your analogy does NOT apply.

      If you take someone's beer, they no longer have a beer.

      If you download a song from someone, THEY STILL HAVE THE SONG.

    4. Re:actual infringers? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Would you care to point to where in US copyright law (and we ARE talking about the Recording Industry Association of AMERICA here) where it says that downloading infringes copyright?

      Would you show me in the US Constitution where is says that one can own a song? (hint- it doesn't).

      What if you had a twelve pack of beer in the refrigerator in your back yard with a sign that said "take one", a hundred people came and each took a beer but when you came home you still had twelve beers? That's downloading.

      That said, the summary is a steaming pile of corporate RIAA brainwashed shit. downloading is legal, uploading copyright works without permission is illegal. US Copyright law protects artists and publishers from other publishers, not from the unpublishing customer.

      The MAFIAA is seeking a sea change in the paradigm, and are largely succeeding. And timothy and Doug Lederman are helping them, damn it!!! First this and now this, it seems that slashdot has been invaded.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    5. Re:actual infringers? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Hint, it does.

      The constitution specifically authorize congress to make copyright.
      Therefore copyright is what congress say it is.

      "What if you had a twelve pack of beer in the refrigerator in your back yard with a sign that said "take one", "
      you would be in violation of copyright law....assuming 'beer' was a copyrighted work.

      You are correct, but don't loose sight of the fact that copyright can change with a vote.

      That means you must engage your officials about copyright whenever it comes up.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:actual infringers? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      True.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    7. Re:actual infringers? by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      That sentence alludes to the "making available" debate. Is merely offering a song in a P2P program ("making available") already copyright infringement or is only the actual act of making a copy an infringement?

      The actual act of making a copy is _not_ infringement. My understanding is downloading a song off the internet is the same, wrt the law, as taping a song off the radio. Even the RIAA isn't trying to argue that taping a song off the radio should be illegal. (Well, not directly. They do lobby for laws to force radio stations to include a 'do not record' bit into the music and force radio makers to make hardware that respects the 'do not record' bit, but that's another story.)

      So is the distinction those that make a song available vs. proving someone has actually downloaded from that person?

  12. "Better technology" by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Better technology," any of us with a brain asserts, "is merely resulting in better clients. Next up: IP obfuscation"

    morons

    9 thousand lawyers versus 90 million technologically savvy, music hungry, poor teenagers

    place your wagers

    you lose, morons

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  13. Not better technology, just a wider net by Coopjust · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Really, the RIAA is just casting a wider net. By putting out more notices:

    A) They are more likely to deter casual, nontechnical users who get them, most of whom will either stop or reduce their P2P use.
    B) They are more likely to scare others; e.x. "Yo, did you hear? Joe Smith got a warning about music downloading!".
    C) Many colleges and ISPs (Dartmouth and Optimum Online, at least) will often reduce the speed of account holders who have been the target of DCMA letters.
    D) For settlement offers, the wider the net, the more fish you catch. If people put up an ounce of resistance, just drop the extortion attempt and move on to the next guy.

    Not really that surprising. The technology hasn't improved, the RIAA is just sending out more letters.

    1. Re:Not better technology, just a wider net by zeldor · · Score: 1

      I suspect they just wanted to make sure they got all
      the letters out before the students went home for the
      summer.

      --
      If I could walk that way I wouldnt need cologne.
    2. Re:Not better technology, just a wider net by russotto · · Score: 1

      E) They figure they can convince the university administrators to implement draconian network-control policies just to prevent being buried under a flurry of infringement notices.

      Not a bad strategy considering university administrators feel about students about the same way the RIAA feels about customers; that is, they see them as a source of cash and anything they do other than fork over money is an unwanted imposition. Any excuse to place restrictions on them is in general a good one anyway. And university administrators are generally impressed by the appearance of Authority, which the RIAA has.

    3. Re:Not better technology, just a wider net by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

      C) Many colleges and ISPs (Dartmouth and Optimum Online, at least) will often reduce the speed of account holders who have been the target of DCMA letters.

      While colleges and universities probably don't give service guarantees, a commercial ISP who suddenly starts providing less bandwidth than you're paying for is opening themselves up for a very well deserved lawsuit.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  14. Stop the witch hunt!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am glad to see University official trying to stop the inquisition of the RIAA.

    I thought that witch hunting was illegal in USA. I thought that harassment was more evil than sharing.

    I am a happy Canadian that know I can live my live without harassment, in the security of my home without being sued for sharing with my friends.

    The RIAA do evil thing and I am sure, more they act with the capital sins, more the people will arise and stand together against those evils doing. I hope that everybody blog about the freedom of expression, the liberty of sharing and the rights to uses technology for the better of ours civilization.

    Anybody that want to constraint us, anybody that is hunting people for what they are doing, any organization that destroy the financial life of the people should burn in the eternal flame of the raging shout of the civilization.

    In short, I had paid my computer, I had paid my electricity, I had paid my ISP bandwith, I get technology to share at the speed of light and for the sake of the expression, I let my computer express all those bits and bites for anybody that do the same. This is the new era of civilization, where Idea, where thoughts are pure electricity that are shared together at the speed of light.

  15. Read as: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's easier and cheaper for us to get press by targeting university students using our new-and-improved technology [waves hand impressively] than it is to do the hard work of tracking down the commercial pirates that might already have a lawyer or the money to pay for one.

  16. new technology by blackjackshellac · · Score: 0
    I know, you could use steganography to hide your stolen tunes in your stolen mpegs.

    Until someone offers better sound quality than CDs for downloads (DRM free, of course, and ideally using patent free algorithms, flac for example), I will continue to buy CDs. That doesn't mean I support the RIAA, I don't, they are scum. It means that when I buy my music I want a built in backup, music downloads don't offer that, as far as I'm aware. If there were a reliable source that let me store my tunes online that might be a different story, but even then I wouldn't trust the bastards to stay in business.

    --
    Salut,

    Jacques

    1. Re:new technology by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      When you buy music from RIAA labels, you are supporting the RIAA.

      If you don't want to suppoer the RIAA, buy your albums used, or buy from indie artists.

    2. Re:new technology by Tuoqui · · Score: 1

      Use a second hand music store... then you arent supporting the RIAA anymore they already got their pound of flesh out of the first sale.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
    3. Re:new technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

      Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered "fair," such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:
      ---
      http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html

        107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40
      Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include --

      (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

      (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

      (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

      (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

      The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
      ---
      You would assume that anyone in a college setting is probably exploring a lot of interest... it could arguably be argued that downloading copyrighted music is similar in nature to going to a music appreciation class and/or may actually be a part of such a class... all things that would be considered one of the great threes of fair use: teaching, scholarship, and research. If you are a college student and get harrassed by the RIAA I strongly advise you to seek a lawyer and reasons why what you are doing is fair use. Also, if you have not yet done so, sign up for some theater and music appreciation classes. I learned a lot in those classes in college. Actually, they got me started towards getting a minor in theater that I eventually got before I graduated with my main major in art.

  17. You would think ... by moseman · · Score: 1

    ... the with all the press about this topic, the "college" KIDS would wise up a bit.

    --
    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to think "profiling is worse than the slaughter of innocent people..."
  18. Better filters == more spam by MacDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As long as they are not facing serious consequences for filing lawsuits against dead people, the homeless, children, and people who don't own computers.... this will only get worse.

  19. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Really, the RIAA is just casting a wider net. By putting out more notices:

    E) Students move from a visable P-P application back to secure sneaker-net trading.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet

    Instead of a dribble of songs from slow university connections, a few DVD's, loaded iPods, and USB external hard drives get lent outside of trackable channels.

    For my middle school kids, it's the norm. They have Comcast and no P-P software. It's all sneaker net and iPods. I'm suprised the RIAA isn't bringing up the RIO lawsuit again and try to fight iPods and other external hard drives as massive tools of infringement. After all, in their book, tools for making availiable is a crime.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  20. The real reason... by doit3d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...is that the RIAA lawyers know that their cash cow is about to go poof very soon. Therefore, they are getting all the milk they can from the cow before it leaves the barn.

    --
    "This is America... where the will of the few outweigh the outrage of the many..." - Unknown
  21. What's interesting ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...is the number of false positives that are popping up.

    I'm responsible for DMCA notices at my campus, and after a 1.5 year lull without a single one, I've received over 2 dozen, none of which are attributable to any IP given out by our DHCP server. One IP was a terminal server with no access to the internet.

    (I'm posting anonymously because I don't like the spotlight. Talk to any college staff member and you'll get similar comments about this recent flurry of notices.)

    1. Re:What's interesting ... by Hyppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does the DMCA notice come with an internal IP as well (192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, etc)? I would be curious to see a university or ISP bring up computer crime charges if that's true, since reconnaissance (active or passive) of internal networks can be considered a crime.

    2. Re:What's interesting ... by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hope your response to the RIAA is something along the lines of:

      We have received your DMCA notices. None are attributable to IP addresses given out by our DHCP server. One is attributed to a terminal server with no internet access. Thus, we will be taking no action other than to file these notices. Should we receive future notices which may be attributed to an IP address assigned by our DHCP server and thus one of our students, we will pass along the DMCA notice as well as a record of all filed and incorrect DMCA notices we have received so that the student in question can be made fully aware of the accuracy of your efforts should they wish to formulate a legal defense.

      Let the RIAA know that their machinegun approach to this will be used against them when it comes time to prosecute. I doubt they'll slow down but the increasingly large file of haphazard DMCA notices will eventually show that they are filing frivolous lawsuits.

    3. Re:What's interesting ... by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      But... his post was interesting.

    4. Re:What's interesting ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also handle DMCA violation notices sent to the university I work for. It hasn't hit us particularly, but among my peers I'm hearing of very high "false positive" rates. Claiming that more notices have any meaning beyond "more notices were sent" is spurious. The real problem is that there is no penalty for sending spurious notices, only for misrepresenting being copyright holder or an authorized agent for the copyright holder.

  22. My version of the real reson... by s0litaire · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The RIAA are trying to get as many cases on the books as possible before any ruling in their current legal battles is made. They probably think they will loose and will push for the judgement NOT to be retroactive. i.e. all current cases can go forward and they are free to extort monies to settle or going to trial. It's called hedging your bets...

    --
    Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  23. More because of litigation? by bravo369 · · Score: 1

    I wonder if maybe they are suing more because of the numerous pending litigation fights they have against them. Maybe they see their window shrinking because if they lose 1 or 2 of those cases then it will prevent them from suing more people. They might be trying to maximize settlement revenue and if any of these new people bring a suit, RIAA can stall them until the court cases that already exist are settled and then drop if necessary. Does any website have wording of the RIAA settlement offers? I wonder if they've changed it to say that if they agree to the settlement then they cannot be part of any class action lawsuit that comes up.

  24. Evolve or Die by aarenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RIAA needs to take a step back and look at their business model. Ford used to create cars with bolts and pieces that were so unique that nobody made part for their products except them. That backfired at some point and they started to go with the flow. Musicians need to get a grip on where the money that is paid for their music goes. Reduce the big overhead of managers and promotions people and get back to making music. If you can do live performances and get rid of the ticket brokers overhead, you can make enough to live on with just a few concerts in medium sized venues each year. If you can not perform live, then you best not expect to make a killing in the industry since you probably do not have real talent, but just know someone that can mix down anything and make it sound good.

    In most cases, when you make the black market seem more dangerous, and there is still a demand for an item, the illegal market will grow. If CD's were priced to make enough to cover costs of production and a small amount for the musician and composer, they would sell like crazy, especially if there was something that set it apart from the mainstream duplicated junk that is generally available. It is much the way the TV industry has gone, 3 networks with reasonable quality, then it became 200 channels, most of which is not worth burning the screen by playing. Quality will win out in the end, if there is a reasonable distribution method and pricing for it.

  25. Are the colleges culpable? by speroni · · Score: 1

    Are the colleges to be held culpable? If a student commits a real crime, are the police going to go to the dean and complain, or are they going to go kick in the student in question's door?

    If a kid beat another kid with the power cable from a college owned PC, does that make the college responsible? If a kid downloaded some music using the college's T1 line does that make the college responsible?

    Also the RIAA isn't a government agency. It doesn't have any more rights than anyone else. Sure in our society anyone can sue anyone else, and the RIAA can complain to anyone they want, but could a college get a restraining order, or a counter suit for harassment?

    Conversely, there's a lot of bands who are just as happy to have fans download their music for free. NIN is releasing their new album on their website for free http://www.nin.com/ Radio head posted their album with a "Tip Jar" Other bands like Moe encourage fans to record concerts and share the music. Seems like the Record Labels and the RIAA are just in between the bands and the fans pissing everyone off.

    --
    Eschew Obfuscation
  26. Bad marketing... by WoollyMittens · · Score: 1

    I'd like a marketing firm to calculate how much damage the recording industry has done in terms of public relations. I think the accumulated ill-will is larger than their perceived losses.

    1. Re:Bad marketing... by mediaempyre · · Score: 1

      Why, we can't be losing customers because they're pissed at us for screwing over their friends!! It ain't like that money actually goes to any artists anyway. Besides, we need the money that we rip off of the artists to pay our ridiculous salaries.
                                                                  the recording industry

  27. Finals ? by junklogin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When using intimidation tactics, isn't it better to increase your pressure as it gets closer to finals for students- hold back until mid semester and then bomb the schools and students . . . Nothing would hasten a quick settlement like the pressure of upcoming finals.

  28. Re:Missed one; by nine-times · · Score: 1

    I'm suprised the RIAA isn't bringing up the RIO lawsuit again and try to fight iPods and other external hard drives as massive tools of infringement. The record industry has recently suggested that they should get a cut of profits on all hard drive sales.
  29. or buy them... by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    Overseas on any trips and be sure you've got your papers in order, and any discussion ready for US Customs.

  30. MediaSentry - "contractor" or "investigator" by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Note that the RIAA is no longer referring to MediaSentry as its "investigator", instead referring to it as a "contractor" or a "vendor". I wonder if they think that will make their legal problems go away.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  31. end of year by KevMar · · Score: 1

    they are just trying to get as many as they can while they can.

    this little cash pot will go dark for 3 months as students head home or off campus now that the year is about over for them.

    --
    Im a gamer, not a grammer major. This post is full of spelling and grammer mistakes.
  32. Waste of time and money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly pirating anything has been around for years, they will never stop it, and unfortunately the 15 year old kids who sit in mommies basement distributing movies music etc, are 100x as smart as anything the riaa comes up with. For all the billions spent stopping pirated music, such as ip filtering, does anyone realize that encryption would be the easiest way for these kids to bypass that? Then the RIAA will spend another million employing coders to do it again just to have it broke by a 16 year old in 2 weeks. Can anyone say Blu-ray?

  33. How Stupid a Summary by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    aggressively targeting users who merely make downloaded music available to others rather than actual infringers.

    How stupid can a summary be.

    The RIAA can't tell the difference between the two!

    And that's the problem - and flaw - in all their cases to date.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  34. Getting Real Folks by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    Let's get real for a moment here folks. Do you really believe anything that the RIAA actually tells you?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  35. But you DO gain something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's akin to you owning a bookstore and people coming in, copying the books, and then leaving. You lose nothing, but gain nothing either.

    In the case of music file duplication, you gain *exposure*. That is important, because the more of it you have, the more people will pay to see your live shows, to buy t-shirts with your logo on them, and to buy box-sets with autographed art and stuff.

    I hate argument-by-analogy...none of these analogies fit very well at all. *Anything* that likens information to physical property is misguided and misleading from the get-go. Copyright Infringement is neither theft nor altruism...it just is what it is, and if you don't understand what it is, these bad analogies won't help you. The same goes for the new kinds of business models that are developing around information products.

  36. Go for the full Kafka/Heller by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

    2d6. 1 -> you are innocent

    --
    -
  37. Re:What's interesting ... GET THIS STORY OUT by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This story needs to be spread more widely. The RIAA has claimed that their methods are close to perfect (you'll catch a few dolphins maybe, but not many). Yet when they sue the wrong person because the inaccurate IP address happened to match up with somebody else's account that person either capitulates, or pays thousands in lawyer bills to clear their name only to see the RIAA attempt to walk away without reimbursing them (like you're guilty just for having a broadband account in the first place) for their costs.

    This is so wrong, and the RIAA continues to get away with it because they refuse to admit to any errors in their methods. If the unreliability of the RIAA IP identification methods got wide circulation they might not be able to pursue any of these cases based on IP address/timestamp information alone.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. Re:Missed one; by geekoid · · Score: 1

    That would be fine by them, because it doesn't have the same potential or speed as downloading.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  40. Soft target? by baomike · · Score: 1

    House two houses down was bot last month for 625.000 for son to attend Uof O.
    Father is a CFO, annual comp circa 3,000,000.

    House next to that had 725.000 put into it for son to attend U of O.
    Father surgeon in Tuscon.

      Just poor impoverished students.

  41. RIAA owns you by __aayurq3262 · · Score: 0, Troll

    When you download RIAA music, you are stealing the chance that an RIAA company will be able to sell you that music. If they catch you, you have to pay the man.

    Now some might argue: "Hey! The chance that I might buy their music belongs to me, not the RIAA. Why should I have to pay them for something that belongs to me? They want me to pay them for not doing something (not buying their cr*p) that I don't want to do just because they think I ought to do it."

    Others might argue: "Hey! The value of the chance that I might buy their music is zero. I wouldn't pay a nickel for it. Why should I have to pay them for the loss of something that's not worth anything?"

    These arguments are to no avail and the Judge will have your ass. In the RIAA mindthink: "All your base are belong to us!"

  42. Re:MediaSentry - "contractor" or "inve NOTE TO RAY by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Ray,

    I call your attention to the What's interesting ... thread above in this discussion where the poster is pointing out just how unreliable the RIAA method of identifying IP addresses and timestamps is proving to be in the real world. If this is the only method the RIAA has at their disposal to identify lawsuit targets, and it's as widely bad as the poster states, this might serve to rip apart the RIAA cases at the very beginning.

    While not an exact analogy, although the basis of it in terms of unreliability is the same, imagine if people tried to use fingerprint data in court in a world where 1 out of 10 people had the same fingerprints. No court would accept that. If the RIAA is so provably wrong so often, then maybe the courts shouldn't be accepting this data as identification of anything at all.

    (Note: this would also explain the two tier system of the RIAA cases. First a multiply joined John Doe case to get identities, followed by extortion, followed by individual cases. The first case filters out all the bad or unidentifiable addresses when the ISP says they can't identify a user for that IP address/timestamp. Of course, if the RIAA is following this stragety then they already know how flawed their methods of identification are, and are using this method to compensate for it by having addresses that at least identify somebody.)

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  43. Re:Speed reduction by Coopjust · · Score: 1

    Actually, you'd be surprised. Try reading your consumer ISP contract some time. Optimum Online sells service at 15mbps/2mpbs down/up but will only guarantee 1/10th of each. If they provide you with 1.6mbps/,3mpbs for 15/2 service, they are providing you with enough broadband legally. That is typically what they will "cap" you to on OOL.

  44. Re:The elimination of network freedom. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking lamer asshole

  45. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    That would be fine by them, because it doesn't have the same potential or speed as downloading.

    Are you kidding? On Comcast, you are lucky to get a complete transfer. A CD full (Torrented the Haredy Heron distro as a test against FTP) takes about 10 hours and seeding dies completely when the transfer is complete. FTP took under 2 hours to get the ISO. Torrent took 9 hours. Backing up my kids 30 Gig Creative Zen took about 40 minutes before sending it off for headphone jack replacement. Meeting friends and sharing popular music is the quick way to fill a 30 Gig player. It's much faster than any other method.

    Sneaker net ping times are terrible, and the search engine sucks, but once a transfer starts, the bandwidth can't be beat. In a school setting, it's not too hard to find someone with your music taste to combine resources with.

    P-P simply provides a better catalog. It doesn't provide fast service. Try filling a 30 Gig player on Comcast using any P-P sometime. P-P is broken. As a bonus, my kids are way under the RIAA radar for low hanging fruit. They are out of sight. Until they get schoolyard DHS style check-in to examine all portable media arriving at school, the sneaker net will continue.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  46. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    The record industry has recently suggested that they should get a cut of profits on all hard drive sales.

    When they do, then they will have to face the fact that they sold licenses with the drives which severly damage their position in court.

    I buy 2 types of CDR discs. Data CDs and Muscic CDs. I put copies of music on music CDs. The royalty has been paid. These are the MP3 CDs I use in the car and DVD player. I thank the industry for providing the low cost licenses.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  47. Re:Missed one; by the+brown+guy · · Score: 1

    The fact is though, that these students have to "illegally" copy songs off of somebodies ipod, rip songs off of a cd and copy them when they aren't supposed to, or use limewire/torrents to download these files. Maybe the RIAA thinks that it is easier to stop people from sharing these files over the internet, because you can't really effectively stop sneakernets...
    Also, here in Canada, the music industry gets a few cents off of every blank CD purchase, to offset the cost of piracy.

    --
    Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
  48. Re:Speed reduction-ONCE THEY CAP YOU by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    That is typically what they will "cap" you to on OOL.

    Once they cap you, however, then they cannot claim that they're selling you 15mbps/2mpbs down/up any longer - even if they virtually never provided it to you in the first place. They now know that any claim to higher speeds is fraudulent.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  49. Reverse-class-action by QuantumPion · · Score: 1

    I wonder how long it will be before the RIAA files a reverse-class-action lawsuit, e.g. RIAA vs. The Students of x University. If they prove just one student at the university pirated music, they get to collect $1000 from each student in damages, which is payed by the University and passed on to students as increased tuition. *shiver*

  50. users who merely make downloaded music available t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In typical slashdot fashion, the author doesn't understand the issue and this:
    >>aggressively targeting users who merely make downloaded music available to others rather than actual infringers

    proves it.

    Copyright infringement (as it applies to music) involves distributing other people's work or taking a copy of the work and incorporating all or part of it in your own music, then distributing it. In the latter case, you are distributing the original author's work by extension. Copyright is made up of 2 words, copy and right. If you own the copyright, you own the right to make and/or distribute and/or sell copies of the recorded work.

    Simply downloading the copy isn't a crime. It's making it available for other people to download that causes you to cross the line. Most people that get busted, are indeed downloaders, but they are stupid enough to share what they download back out to the internet.

    Amazing... it's such a simple concept. Making the music available to others for download *is the infringement*. The RIAA has never targeted people that simply download the music and don't share. They don't care about them. They are after the people that shared it to them.

    Why? It's completely impossible to find someone that doesn't share, and they aren't guilty of a crime because they aren't unlawfully distributing. It's when you share the file and it shows up in the download lists of other people that you become visible to the RIAA.

    Get it right 8)

    -AC

  51. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    Also, here in Canada, the music industry gets a few cents off of every blank CD purchase, to offset the cost of piracy.

    In the USA, it is on music CDrs.

    The fact is though, that these students have to "illegally" copy songs off of somebodies ipod

    That's debatable. You paid the royalty for the blank media. Now you use the pre-paid royalty to legaly obtain the media covered by the royalty. Collecting a royalty and providing no licensed media is theft of real money, not simply a copyright violation.

    If i'm not mistaken, in Canada, they don't bother you for the songs you have downloaded. They only try to stop people from putting the songs online for others. (distribution).

    If they do the royalty here on stuff other than music CDR media, then having copies of music instead of the originals just changed legal status like it is in Canada.

    Having a collection of music on your hard drive in Canada is legal regardless of how it got there. In the US, having music on your hard drive has the requirement of a purchase someplace, from either iTunes, or a rip from a physical CD you own.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  52. Re:Missed one; by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

    Sneaker net ping times are terrible, and the search engine sucks, but once a transfer starts, the bandwidth can't be beat. In a school setting, it's not too hard to find someone with your music taste to combine resources with.
    I believe the relevant quote is:
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. - Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1996).
  53. Re:Missed one; by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

    But they have to prove that you didn't buy that music. An affirmative defense is that your music CD's were stolen. They would have a very, very hard time busting you for music you merely have a copy of, the burden of proof is too high.

    Even if they could show that for example the media had "Downloaded from MuzicWarez - Your place for pirated music," in its metadata, they'd have a hard time convincing a jury to convict you if your defense was that you downloaded that track after you lost the original album.

    However, distribution is something they can bust you on, because unless you're an online music retailer, you don't have any license to be distributing music electronically.

  54. Re:Missed one; by Jax+Omen · · Score: 1

    I buy data CD-Rs to put my music on for that very reason.

  55. Re:MediaSentry - "contractor" or "inve NOTE TO RAY by dwpro · · Score: 1

    There has actually been an entire article (posted by NYCL), devoted to those types of arguments. I would look it up but slashdot search is down and I don't know a good way to find it on google.

    --
    Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
  56. For me it has nothing to do with the quality .. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I learned what they did to my prospective business plans with the DMCA, I watched them launch a domestic terrorism campaign with their lawsuits, and I'm watching them indirectly foist orwellian "great firewall of china" clones onto institutions like emory university.

    I will never, ever, for as long as I live, buy a single thing they produce. Further, I intend to make a great deal of money, and require any recipients of my inheritance not buy RIAA cd's as a conditiion of my will.

    I will train any children, should I have them, in the techniques of battle against these bastards.

    The RIAA has done with my generation what the democratic party did with a generation of southern people when they abandoned the dixie-crat platform and began pushing on civil rights reforms in the mid 20th century.

    that was ages ago when my mother was a little kid. Anyone want to take bets on what century georgia will come back to a democratic presidential outcome? : ) This is the bleak future the RIAA has made for themselves.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  57. Bullshit. by Moryath · · Score: 1

    Ah, but how profitable is an artist's tour going to be if nobody knows who they are?

    But since the MafiAA doesn't try out new acts any more, that's not a risk. And all of the "promotional" work done by the label is charged back to the band, again. The MafiAA don't actually pay for shit.

    Mind you, one of my all-time favorite bands was pretty much snuffed out by Capitol - had their album produced and recorded and then just sat on it for a couple years without releasing it, until finally the band called it quits.

    Many bands have this happen, usually because the label's holding them slave/hostage trying to force them to re-up for an even longer/worse contract.

    They also backed the production of that album, taking the risk that it wouldn't sell. They need to recover those costs.

    That's what the sales price is for, not duplicitously using FRAUDULENT ACCOUNTING to hide the profits and try to charge the costs to the band AS WELL.

    The goal of the MafiAA companies is simple: milk for every penny. It's slave labor, unless you hit it super-big (metallica/etc). They don't ever take a real risk - the times someone didn't hit it ultra-big, the labels "made money" off of them anyways, then forced them through bankruptcy with all the charge-backs. This happens even to the big names.

    You want to know why there are so many so-called "singer/songwriter" acts these days? Because it's one of the few ways out - get one song you "wrote" onto the album, and they have to pay you writers' royalties. You want to know why half or more of the album is shit? Because desperately trying to save their own asses financially, every bandmember wrote at least one track on the album. And it doesn't matter, because the MafiAA's dirty accounting always comes out a rape-job anyways.

  58. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    I believe the relevant quote is:

    That old quote is out dated from the days of CDR and Floppy transfer.

    It should be updated to the times.

    Never underestimate the bandwidth of middle school children on foot armed with 30 or 60 Gig iPods. - Technician Slashdot (2008)

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  59. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    But they have to prove that you didn't buy that music. An affirmative defense is that your music CD's were stolen.

    Wrong. They don't sell music. They license it. Read the license terms that state something for private home use only.

    I buy licenses in the 100 pack. I don't own music.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  60. Re:The elimination of network freedom. by twatt3r · · Score: 1

    Twitter, your free speech area is 500m that way, in the middle of Digg.

    Get moving!

  61. Oblig. Futurama by darkfire5252 · · Score: 1

    If we can just hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Jackpot! -- The Zapper

  62. So What? by Thyrteen · · Score: 1

    Shit, they finally have better enforcement! The way TFO makes it out to seem is that WE'RE manipulating the law to make it work for us, which may or may not be true, but I believe that the cause for which it is initiated is good. This better enforcement is being used to help bring down a tyrant that has monopoly'd music artists for a looong time. Granted, my argument here scarily mirrors the argument for going to Iraq, which I strongly oppose :) Therefore, I can at least consider myself human, for better or worse.

    I definitely think the RIAA has hit a brick wall lately, which is good, because this will force the two sides in this argument to both evolve into something more beneficial for everybody.

  63. I take it... by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

    ...it is a 20 sided dice?

  64. Lousy music.... by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

    I remember the days when I used to buy CDs. I felt good about that even if 80% of the songs were not the ones I wanted. These days, the RIAA has left such a sour feeling that I don't buy many if any CDs and I know I definitely do not ant to be ripped off by the various DRM schemes that take your money but eventually cut off you access to the music.

    --
    Only boring people are ever bored.
  65. Re:Missed one; by meringuoid · · Score: 1
    I do believe this will be the ultimate form of music trading.

    When I was at high school I went in carrying a bag of cassettes. We'd trade and duplicate those. Half an album on each side of a tape, laboriously copied on dual-deck recorders, crappy quality, but in the mid-nineties it was how it was done. I still have a stack of old Blur and Pulp tapes from way back, gathering dust somewhere in my parents' house.

    Fifteen years or so later my sister is at the same high school. She goes in carrying a four gigabyte USB stick, a DVD containing every Number One hit there ever was, a mobile phone with more capacity than the PC I had back then and with the ability to transfer any of its contents wirelessly to any other phone at any time.

    Fifteen years from now kids will be swapping the entire history of recorded music at one go, and keeping it on memory chips the size of postage stamps.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  66. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    Half an album on each side of a tape, laboriously copied on dual-deck recorders, crappy quality, but in the mid-nineties it was how it was done.

    I was in the military in the 1970's. We had a better budget and didn't use dual decks for that very reason. Top end hi-fi was the norm in dorm. It's where I picked up most of my gear. Too bad much of the stuff now is cheaper with lower specs. THD and S/N ratios should have improved over the years, but sadly have not for the most part. Cheaper high wattage is the norm now.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  67. Re:Missed one; by meringuoid · · Score: 1
    Until they get schoolyard DHS style check-in to examine all portable media arriving at school, the sneaker net will continue.

    Examine all portable media?

    I have a 4GB Micro-SD memory card in my phone. That's the kind of capacity typical computers had when Napster first took off, so it can easily store a pretty decent music collection. Certainly plenty to be bringing into school for trade in a day, even if your collection proper is on your home PC.

    And if I put it on top of a penny, it doesn't even go over the sides. In among the vast amount of assorted junk the average schoolboy carries about each day, what are your chances of finding it?

    Now estimate the capacities of the equivalent devices in 2010. 2015. 2020...

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  68. Re:Missed one; by Technician · · Score: 1

    And if I put it on top of a penny, it doesn't even go over the sides. In among the vast amount of assorted junk the average schoolboy carries about each day, what are your chances of finding it?

    My point was the schoolyard inspections will never materialise due to manpower and equipment costs and very low returns. The chances of finding it on the first day are great as the number of obvious devices are rampant.

    It's like shooting birds sitting on a telephone wire. It's an easy shot for the first one, after that, the rapidly scattering flock is much harder to get.

    Now estimate the capacities of the equivalent devices in 2010. 2015. 2020...

    Which was the point of my original quote modified to the bandwidth of a school child walking to school. It will only get worse for the RIAA and members. The next gen to hit the college campuses will be better trained in staying out of the RIAA gunsights. The RIAA is still in it's first shot and the flock is taking flight. They may have more lawsuits because they have better tools, but the counter-tools are on the way. Part of it is offline.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  69. Re:MediaSentry - "contractor" or "inve NOTE TO RAY by dwpro · · Score: 1

    here is the link (if anyone is still paying attention)
    http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/28/0141221

    --
    Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz