Slashdot Mirror
NVIDIA GeForce To Quadro Software Mod
babyshiori writes "The NVIDIA Quadro family of professional graphics cards are very, very expensive. But many people know that Quadro and GeForce graphics cards are virtually identical in hardware. Obviously, you cannot just use Quadro drivers with your GeForce graphics cards. However, there is an easy way to soft-mod an NVIDIA GeForce desktop graphics card into an NVIDIA Quadro professional graphics card. Tech ARP shows us just how to do it. 'It all revolves around the driver support for professional 3D applications like 3ds Max or Maya. Quadro drivers allow the Quadro to be used to accelerate the rendering operations of such professional 3D applications while GeForce drivers do not. This is the basis for the premium prices NVIDIA (and ATI) charge for their professional-grade graphics cards.'"
I work in an engineering field where we use Quadro cards for visualization of largish process plants in an AutoCAD 3D environment.
This type of work is not as intensive as 3D animation.
Over the years I've seen not much difference between "professional" and "consumer" video cards even though the cost between the two can be $600 or more.
Even with relatively lame, $200 cards the walkthrus are pretty responsive when using the proper viewing software (the "walkthrus" are typically specially created for responsiveness so we can zoom to detail we need to see).
Perhaps sluggish performance is a result of demos given by people who intentionally attach one entire GB of 3D models to one session and use that to demonstrate (even though no 3D modeler would ever do such a thing).
But will it blend?
D'oh, sorry, force of habit. I meant, will it work with Blender? It's atrociously slow on a GeForce.
In fact, will it work on Linux full stop? It all appears to be MS based.
The mod seems simple and useful for some, but most of the people who use these programs work for companies who would probably spend a few hundred more dollars for a fully supported graphics adapter for their piece of software that costs thousands of dollars.
I doubt I would *need* to do so, but does this hack work on laptop nVidia cargs (their GeForce Go or Mobile series)?
I already use a desktop driver with a modded INF file from http://laptopvideo2go.com/ (nVidia's drivers for their older - 7600 in my case - laptop cards are crap, especially on Vista), so I'm not afraid of installing a desktop driver on a laptop, but might this driver make demands of the card that the mobile versions are incapable of?
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
What exactly is this enabling? I get that it's for "professional" applications, but what features do those use that aren't turned on normally?
Hey, I also work in an engineering field where we implement Quadro cards for visualization of largish process plants. I find this type of work much more intensive compared to for example 3D animation. Over the months and years I have seen quite a difference between standard and high-end video cards even though the cost between the two often is $550 or even higher at time. With slow $250 cards the walk throughs are effective when using the full viewing software.
...than Quadro (workstation) GPUs.
I mean, sure, it's cool, but a software house using Maya and 3DS max would want to real gear, and people not in that category would be unlikely to need such a hack. Especially since you *really* don't want to be using hacked up code with your Gforce card.
This does not detract from the cleverness of those who did it, but in the final analysis it's virtually pointless.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
I guess this explain the unwillingness from NVidia to release the specs and allow people to make gpl drivers for their cards.
nVidia, like all corporations, is more concerned with serving its shareholders than its users, so they use dirty tricks like this in an attempt to force some users to shell out $600 more for the same product. Instead of focusing on producing the best hardware designs they possibly can and leaving driver development to the community, where the most good can be done (more platforms supported, using hardware to maximum potential, etc.), they capitalize on their monopoly on drivers for their products.
Kudos to TechARP for their hack.
Nothing about "we cannot because we don't own all the IP" or any crap like that.
It's that both cards will do the same stuff (the cheaper cards may be using lower tolerance components) and we'd find out how to use the tech available rather than buy the expensive version that has the software to drive it.
I read some articles about the subject in the OP, now I got a Compaq8710w Laptop, it has a FX1600M in it, I wonder if I would benefit doing this the other way round since I don't do any 3d stuff and like to play games on this machine... (oh and btw, it does run smoothly on most of the games now)
Probably not, since the hardware tend to be slightly slower.
Any idea's?
quadro will still outperform the geforce by a mile. all this hack does is allow you to use quadro drivers on your geforce, not run your geforce like a quadro. this is only useful for students who can't afford a quadro. if you wanted to actually do anything really intensive you'll still need a quadro. they are most expensive for a reason you know.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
I do not have up-to-date info.
But in past, video cards were used to render previews and some special effects (e.g. particles). It wasn't pure hardware rendering - something was rendered in software, then blended together with with image rendered by/in hardware.
The main difference in the times was that cheap cards didn't supported all the fancy color spaces/modes nor did they had bandwidth to transfer huge textures (smaller parts of scenes pre-rendered in software) to cards.
Actual architecture introduced by nVidia (generic GPU responsible for everything) makes all that soft-modding possible. Besides some bus bandwidth issues (Quadros have wider internal buses) I do not see any problem with the hack.
I easily believe that drivers for cheaper GeForces might intentionally skip some advanced functionality, which isn't relevant to games, but is important to 3D modeling software.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
+10
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Last time I did that I moved two micro-resistors.
I just used a jewelers loup and a small tip on my soldering iron.Found the instructions online somewhere.Worked well.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I've had a look at the forum thread linked at the very end of the article. Softmodding only works up to the Geforce 6x00 series. It seems that after that NVidia put in some more checks than only the PCI ID. As reported in the thread, there's no performance increase in professional 3D apps, and OpenGL is broken.
What makes you think that? Did you benchmark this mod and compared with a quadro with the same chipset? Do you think everyone that did so are liars? Or are you just working for nvidia?
c++;
I'm sure it seems evil to you, but not to a lot of engineers that use this stuff. In the old days, we spent $6000 or more on 3D graphics cards. Along comes nVidia with the Quadro cards at really affordable prices. They achieve this by using components that work for both gamers and engineers. So rather than spreading the cost of chip development across a somewhat small number of users, nVidia creates a do-all chip and can spread the development costs across a much larger community. We don't mind paying the extra costs of higher quality components, more RAM and application-specific drivers. The only other business model I see working is for nVidia to charge separately for the CAD drivers, which would reduce the cost of the hardware. But that creates a huge problem with pirating. So it's not unreasonable to view the Quadro product line as a card + software package, with the card itself acting as a copy protection device. And I'm OK with that, because it is non-intrusive. Anytime I need a new driver, I can download it. It's easier to get the boss to pay for the card when I get a new workstation than to justify the purchase of drivers. So their business model works fine for professional use.
Place nail here >+
Are there any real comparisons out there regarding the hardware? My understanding about the difference between the high end cards and the pro cards wasn't really about processing speed. It's more about detail. The high end cards have a much higher accuracy along with support for more lighting in hardware, etc. when rendering while gaming cards sacrifice some of the accuracy for increased performance. Could be that is all in the drivers...
Everytime I get a new quadro card in at work I usually throw 3dMark at it just to see how it does. It's usually not all that impressive with regard to speed.
yvan eht nioj
All recent nVidia and ATI graphics cards accelerate 3D. Why wouldn't the 8600M GT?
The 8600 GT is a fairly good low-to-mid-range desktop card, and on my 2.33GHz Core2Duo-powered desktop it runs glxgears at around 5540 FPS.
The lower-power 8600M GT is a very good laptop card, and on my 2.0GHz Core2Duo-powered laptop it runs glxgears at around 5150 FPS.
For reference, a non-accelerated glxgears runs at a mere 250 FPS or so. Clearly the 8600M is providing good 3D acceleration, and is keeping up quite well with its desktop sibling.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
All graphics cards accelerate 3D rendering.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
As a end-note, the cost of Quadro & FireGL cards is no longer $1000.00 dollars as both Nvidia and ATI have released budget versions (older chips) that still function well.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html
The whitepaper says that Quadros have got support for window clipping, hardware accelerated clip planes, antialiased wireframe rendering, more memory, etc. Although it doesn't say if the hardware accelerated features do exist in the GeForce family but are disabled by software.
Does anyone know if this hack (or another) can provide a Quad-Buffered Stereo environment? Are there technical limitations anyone can think of? This environment is required for many applications that work with Planar or Nuvision 3d displays.
I recall a year ago or so borrow a Quadro 1300 from work (my video card bit the dust), and Civ4 and other games just sucked...until I force-installed the GeForce rather the the Quadro drivers for Windows.
Not only was it playable now, I could turn the resolution all the way up;)
Could just be a difference in the age of the drivers though. Quadro drivers are typically much more conservative performance-wise than GeForce ones and thus release changes much more slowly.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Can an Nvidia lawsuit be far behind?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
After getting tired of visual glitches in Autocad and 3DS Max I tried this on my desktop (GeForce 6800) and my laptop (GeForce 7900 Go). The 6800 was the wrong revision and this couldn't be done. However it worked for the laptop in the since that I could install the Quadro drivers from Nvidia's website. What didn't work was installing the MAXtreme and Powerdraft Quadro-only accelerated drivers for Autocad and 3DS Max. They could still detect the card was not a Quadro. The best thing to do if you want to fix video glitches or improve 3d performance is to update to the latest drivers for your card and use the most recent versions of Autocad (2009) and 3DS Max. Autocad in particular will give you a lot less headaches now that it's switched from using OpenGL to Direct3D. The performance difference between a Quadro and a regular GeForce card is also much smaller now.
My Hello World is 512 bytes. But it's also a valid Fat12 boot sector, Fat12 file reader, and Pmode routine.
This would be why they won't release the source to their drivers, then.
So my understanding is that the Quadros are physically the same as the normal cards, but cost more and use drivers with specific additional features.
Do nVidia charge a lot for the Quadro branding, or include a contractual statement that vendors must charge extra for cards that identify as Quadros? Surely otherwise one of the fabbers would sell a version of the card that identifies as a quadro, but for a fraction of the price.
So are Quadro drivers way more stable than the GeForce ones? NVIDIA's drivers suck these days. They're not good as 8x.xx ones IMO.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
It's like saying "Why use RHEL when you can get CentOS for free?" Because with RHEL I'm not really paying for software, I'm paying for support. If something goes wrong they are willing to spend time to fix it, whatever that fix ends up requiring.
This might be useful if you are a university student who's got a cheap copy of CAD software to play with (much like CentOS is useful for the same student to learn about enterprise Linux) but this isn't some coup that is going to screw nVidia. Pros are still going to buy the Quadros to get the support. As a practical matter, they are probably spending way more on the software anyhow.
I think he based it only on his "they are most expensive for a reason you know.", or what would be: They must be more expensive for a reason you know.
The argument that they would be much faster then geforce cards falls on: Why would nvidia not offer the fastest cards for gamers aswell? Some gamers are willing to pay for it.
So of course they offer the best they can make to everyone who wants it. No matter under what line name.
That's a great idea!
We could just stick all of ScuttleMonkey's subs there. JK.
"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"