Slashdot Mirror
First Space Lawyer Graduates
PHPNerd writes "Over at space.com is an interesting article about the first space lawyer. He graduated from the University of Mississippi. 'Any future space lawyer might have to deal with issues ranging from the fallout over satellite shoot-downs to legal disputes between astronauts onboard the International Space Station. The expanding privatization of the space sector may also pose new legal challenges [...] "We are particularly proud to be offering these space law certificates for the first time, since ours is the only program of its kind in the U.S. and only one of two in North America," said Samuel Davis, law dean at the University of Mississippi.'"
a new breed of lawyers
- Human knowledge belongs to the world
In the states I've looked up, "specializing" as a lawyer means nothing. Every lawyer is on 100% equal footing with regard to the law. The "family law" lawyer has exactly the same legal standing as a "criminal defense attorney", wether the trial is a messy divorce or a murder trial.
While I suppose it's good to have specialized training in law for a specific field, this just seems silly. I mean, I'm sure there have been lawyers before (working for NASA, Lockheed, Boeing, etc,) that have "specialized" in space law. Who cares if the diploma lists "space law", really?
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
In space, no one can hear you sue.
Why the University of Mississppi? Isn't that like studying oceanography in Colorado? Wouldn't it be more prudent to study in Florida, Texas? Hell, even Alabama is a better choice.
As Seen On TV's? Come back!!!
[comment deleted due to space copyright]
-Space Lawyer
when i got my degree in ancient inuit whaling techniques, nobody gave a rip...
i've had just about enough of your vassar bashing.
Attack of the space-lawyers!
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I suppose if a woman spends six months with two guys on the International Space Station, and three months after she lands on Earth she gives birth, a Space Lawyer could help determine paternity. Also if a Russian pilot dings the body work on the International Space Station with his Soyuz and denies it on the collision report, a Space Lawyer would come in handy there too.
on Jedi mind tricks.....
Specialization has, for most professions, been a way for the industry to differentiate between its own members. It is not a government-recognized title. For example, a medical doctor can legally perform brain surgery without the 7 year neurosurgery residency. More than that, someone who has completed the 7-year training and *fails* the neurosurgery boards can legally perform brain surgery.
:)
Many HMO clinics/etc, as a cost-cutting measure, will actually hire 'radiologists' and other specialists who have been unable to pass their boards. This is because, while they are legally allowed to practice whatever medicine they want (assuming they have their state license to practice medicine), they will work cheap 'cause anyone who checks their credentials will likely turn them away.
On another note, always check your physicians credentials
I shouldn't be, but I am. I know that you refer to a lawyer by their specialty, i.e. a "patent lawyer" is a lawyer who specializes in patents, not a lawyer who themselves is patented or was created by a patent.
But is it really all that much to ask that the world's first "space lawyer" actually be from space? Or live there now? I don't care what they specialize in, they just have to have a law degree and either hail from or emigrate to outer space.
I'll be writing my congressman about this.
The enemies of Democracy are
Disputes between citizens of different countries are already resolved on the high seas by maritime law. Dumping too.
Space law just sounds like a degree cooked up by one of those internet universities that send you a pdf degree.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
... kill it now before it breeds! I say we take off & nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Universities will do anything for money it seems.
but when are they going to send all the other lawyers in space?
I'm sorry, this just reminds me of Heinlein's use of the phrase "space lawyer" as the SF generalization of "latrine lawyer."
Space travel is doomed
Is it anything like the Space Pope?
Counselnaut? Astrolawyer? Orbital Mouthpiece? Defender (get it)? Prosecutron? Baikonur Barrister? Still, I guess this isn't any different than those lawyers that specialize in oddball maritime issues.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I didn't catch that. What kind of lawyer did you say he was?
I couldn't hear over all the people laughing.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
...must present certificate of ownership of at least 1 square mile of moon surface.
"Hello, beautiful. I'm a space lawyer." There's no way a tax attorney could compete with that.
Classmate: "So what have you been doing these past 10 years?"
Hero: "Well, I'm a space lawyer."
Classmate: "Do you, like, work on lawsuits about zoning or something?"
Hero: "No, I handle laws based on outer space."
Classmates, in unison: "Hahahahahaha."
Hero: "I'm in the employ of several governments. I could buy all of your houses and probably enslave all of you, and by enslave, I mean pay you a living wage to fan me and bring me drinks."
Classmates, in unison: *cricket* *cricket* "So where did you go to school and what's the entry requirements?"
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
Are they referring to McGill's "Institute of Air and Space Law" when they say it is only the second place in north america?
They believe in space in Mississippi? Has nobody told their wonderfully enlightened pastors about this widespread heathen encroachment on freedom of religion?
because everyone who bought "property" on the moon will need to sue their real estate agent.
How do you get a process server to the ISS?
I hope you're trolling.
Yes, every lawyer is on equal footing with the law, but the field of law is so vast and complex that it requires specialization. If you think that a family law lawyer expertly knows what he's (she's) doing with patent law, or tort law, I encourage you to go try it. The smart attorney will refer you to someone who specializes in the repective law. The dumb (or maybe adventurous) one might try to handle it themselves.
You don't have a civil engineer designing cell phones just as you don't have a electrical engineer writing out structural member specifications for a bridge design...yet they're both in the field engineering, just different specializations. Where do you learn these specializations? Probably the place that gave you your sheepskin. I can't say that I've heard of many institutions giving out a degree in just "engineering" lately, either.
-That puts an end to the "Layers are really good people 10 feet down under" jokes!
First things first. Especially in space. Law is a set of rules established to maintain a civilized society. When it is obvious that a society is already governed by a set of rules (such as chain of command that necessarily exists with all space travel), imposing a set of artificial and necessarily arbitrary extra rules only makes for an extra burden, and therefore, danger in the situation. If any lawyers think their contribution to the set of behaviors in space is warranted, they are playing with people's lives in order to make their livelihoods. That's reckless irresponsible at best and malicious at worst. In either case, to make space travel safer, first thing you do is kill all the lawyers.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
I am waiting for the first paternity suit. It should be entertaining.
Sweet! I was wondering how I was going to handle the closing on that Mars property I have had my eye on!
I just have to wonder... what does the Space Lawyer uniform look like? Was it designed by Zapp Brannigan?
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
When all the lawyers go into space, I want to be on the last transport. Because, unlike popular opinion shaped by the famous assholes, many lawyers actually believe in what they do. One example I always love to tell about a lawyer here in the US is one who volunteered for the ACLU. He was given the assignment of a KKK member who was wrongfully imprisoned (folks who didn't like the KKK so they used the "law" to shut him up. It's not just for white hicks ya know.). TO make a long story short, the KKK guy saw a black man (The lawyer) walk in. The black lawyer put aside his dislike for the KKK guy because he believed in the Constitution of the United States of America more than he believed in his or his clients bigotry. I remember that whenever I want to start using lawyers for shark bait.
is some good moon lawyers. maybe a saturn lawyer. sun lawyers. this is silly.
Weren't their fees already.. astronomical?
I'd be willing to bet there's nothing but space in the lawyers' heads as well.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I bet this guy's hourly fees will be astronomical!
I know the summary mentions the program is one of two of its kind in North America, but the tagline is still a little too disingenuous when you consider that the program's canadian counterpart - the McGill Institute of Air & Space Law recently celebrated its fiftieth anniversary. Even if American law is all you want to count, someone must certainly have graduated from the IASL and gone on to pass an American Bar exam..
Stuff.
There are actually different typed of Nurse Practitioners certificates like FNP or ANP.
This really might not just be a gimmick. Let's look at some scenarios:
<ol>
<li>A satellite from Russia is launched 10 years ago and has a failure of some sort knocking it out of its intended orbit. A space mission from Country X miscalculates, or is unaware of, its current trajectory. The instant they notice, Country X takes action that diverts the satellite from space to a trajectory that doesn't hit their mission but diverts the satellite again. Who is responsible if the satellite hits a third parties exploration team? What if the satellite is diverted into orbit and burns up while the Russians were still gathering data? What if the Russian satellite falls through orbit and hits a poor Indonesian families roof, who is responsible?</li>
<li>An American weapons satellite discharges its payload, targeted at lets say Guam (I know, I know), while over India. Now, is this a case of the US unlawfully using Indian airspace? Does the UN or NATO get involved? What if the a non NATO entity launches from NATO ally airspace? Is this an act of aggression?</li>
<li>The definition of space salvage is what? What can private space salvage operations legally go after?</li>
<li>How do you define international space? How do you enforce, or recognize such boundaries?</li>
</ol>
We may have previous cases that you can draw from to begin argument in these areas, but they won't be fully adequate. Just give this kid credit for seeing a giant opportunity.
This idea of a lawyer is really "out there."
Rather than design new propulsion systems to make space travel more efficient, let's just sue Issac Newton, get the law repealed and go there for free.
I wonder if his couse even considered the possibilty that there are natural laws and manmade laws. I'd love to see this in a courtroom. Sadly, given the state of the educational & legsal systems, I might.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
My suggestion is spaceship chasers.
Monstar L
Space Lawyer > Unfrozen caveman lawyer
In that scene 2 German airmen are on a mission and they deem themselves alone high in the sky. They start making jokes about German leaders only see 2 members of the Gestapo in front of their windshield while the airmen are exclaiming that you are never save from the grasp of the Gestapo.
I guess the astronauts must have the same fears now. Nobody can escape spacelawyers!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Inaccurate. This is not the first "space lawyer." It is the first "space law certificate" from a law school to a graduating law student. There are a multitude of "space lawyers" already.
And just to be nitpicky, just because this person graduates from law school with this certificate doesn't make them a "space lawyer." Graduating from law school doesn't make you a lawyer. Passing the bar makes you a lawyer, and the certificate doesn't mean a damn.
Attack of the space-lawyers!
Not weird enough, and not really redundant enough either, for a B-movie title.
I was thinking more along the lines of "Lawyers In Spaaaaaace!"
Ooo! Just had a scary thought: Shatner. [shivers]
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
If that's so, then wouldn't this guy only be able to take cases that were applicable to Misssiisssiiissiipppii (or however it's spelt).
Personally, I can't see him geting a lot of business - unless of course it's merely a novelty act and he gets a proper job doing divorces or whatever they have out there.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Will an astronaut's space-suit help protect against law-suits?
Just the first from that school. IANASL.
Space Lawyers are from Uranus.
Do they smoke grass out in space, or do they smoke astroturf (ooooooh)?
Or Angry. I'm not sure which.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
I'm sorry, this just reminds me of Heinlein's use of the phrase "space lawyer" as the SF generalization of "latrine lawyer."
Heinlein, a former naval officer, was expanding on the navy slang "sea lawyer". A derogatory term referring to someone who tries to use rules and regulations to shirk responsibilities and/or make excuses for their failures. They are generally not the most popular of shipmates.
OK, I just have to say it, LOL. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Mississippi is the $5/hr crop duster that keeps my father-in-law's sister in some dirt floor shack with her brood of squalling brats, not freaking "space lawyers" LOL...
Yeah, I can already see the movie.
*Aliens are attacking earth*
NCO: We've thrown everything we got at them, and they're still coming!
Commander: No.. Not everything.. But to unleash something like that, even if they are our enemies..
NCO: What do you mean? What could possibly be worse than our strategic nukes?
Commander: Prepare.. Prepare a rocket. Put in the coordinates, and.. Load it with a space lawyer.
*NCO goes white in the face, unable to utter a word*
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
The State of Mississippi was for many years among the poorest and most litigious states in the entire United States. There have been some recent attempts at reforms which seem to be bearing fruit, but it is not surprising that a new innovation in lawyers and lawsuits has come out of the State of Mississippi. The Wall Street Journal had a recent article describing the litigious history of Mississippi.
Space Hookers and Space Cocaine Dealers...
This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
Any future space lawyer might have to deal with issues ranging from the fallout over satellite shoot-downs...
If for example China were to shoot down a US satellite I don't think it will be "space lawyers" that get launched.
The last thing we need is another avenue for frivolous litigation. "Hey asshole, you parked your satellite in my orbit!" "So sue me."
Go ahead and develop a bunch of "space lawyers". Just keep them back here on the ground. Try to send them up with us and we'll make them all airlock integrity inpectors. We'd use them for reaction mass but the large proportion of hot air reduces their density.
Maybe we can use them as Reaver bait, or chest-burster incubators. Perhaps they'll be able to make friends.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Ugh, space lawyers? This just puts us one step closer to space IP lawyers, and we all know what that's going to be like.
In engineering, once you get out in the field your specialization often doesn't really matter. I was an aerospace engineer, with a focus (such as it was) on space mission design and orbital mechanics. My hobbies are flying private aircraft and flight model simulation. Yet, my current day job is designing system test rigs, and my previous one involved programming avionics test codes and routing simulator wiring. A friend of mine also has an AE degree, but he's now a head designer in our electrical systems group. Another friend (mechanical eng.) now designs plants for Florida Power.
A lot of companies don't care what your specialization was; they look to see if you're adaptable and able to learn (which is supposedly what your degree demonstrates). Unless you did time in grad school, your real specialization usually comes after you've been working in the field for a few years. That's when guys most often get sorted into structures, test, aerodynamics, MRB, etc.
The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
Institute of air and space law at the university of cologne, Germany, founded 1925. OK, I guess the space part was added later.
Professional courtesy.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
OP might be first space lawyer, but we've already had lawyers come from space. I'm from Pennsylvania, and our chief lawyer is a space cadet: http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=3632
"and here I was hoping space would be one place to someday finally have a lawyer-free haven."
I think we should put them on the first spaceship leaving earth before doom strikes, except it doesn't.
Send them to lawyer planet...
Oh wait!.. THIS is lawyer planet
PS: if you don't get this, you're probably still wondering what's the deal with this 42 thing..
In space, no one can hear you sue for pain and suffering.
Can we kill it now so it does not have the chance to multiply ?
IANASL, but this leads me to wonder how many specialties lawers really need.
Do anti-lawyers exist yet?
Given that there really isn't a body of space law for a 'space lawyer' to specialize in... How exactly does this work?
Space Sex
To...
Space Cadet...
And, throwing a case out the window now has to be "thrown out the airlock"...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I think the framework by which an attorney evaluate cases/legal issues is a relevant and positive factor. I don't want a divorce lawyer handing a Microsoft anti-trust case. (Or do I?) He might not know how to set-up the case.
The Bad:We have no space judges. Emboldening the technocratic? Lawyers aren't supposed to be the ones testifying in court as expert witnesses.
The Neutral:Corporate law firms seek "in-house expertise." The new "Space Lawyer," will get a good job (and maybe a TV show), but he may never try cases. Their time may be considered "too valuable," to put on one single case. Could be good for some out-of-law-school people, or could burn them out quick.
Um, the lawyers at FAA's office of Commercial Spaceflight; the JAGs at Air Force Space Command; the attorneys at Boeing, Lockheed, Orbital Sciences, SpaceX, Bigelow, SiS, etc.; and the guys at Milbank Tweed, Jones Day, and Patton Boggs who do space law for a living might want to have a chat with the writers of TFA. Especially those JAGs, they might not just sue you...
maintain the ban on lawyers when this country was founded... Now they're every where and will do anything to make a buck! And with so many they need to do just about anything to make a buck ;-(
A defense against the charge of stalking while in possesion of diapers.
Have gnu, will travel.
A friend of mine got a graduate degree (he was already a lawyer) in Air and Space Law from McGill University in Montreal years ago. See http://www.mcgill.ca/iasl/
In other words the article describes a degree that is only a first in the US, at best. There's nothing new about it in the rest of the world.
Don't critique that which you do not know.
The University of Mississippi School of Law "offers the only dedicated aerospace law curriculum in the nation from an American Bar Association-accredited law school, and requires courses on U.S. space and aviation law, international space and aviation law, and remote sensing; participation in the publication of the Journal of Space Law; and independent research. The National Center for Remote Sensing, Air and Space Law was founding in 1999."
The faculty and staff look very well experienced: international treaties, UN, regulatory exp.; aerospace, aviation, & remote sensing legal work; governmental, public policy groups and private sector.
Curriculum from the National Center for Remote Sensing, Air and Space Law :
Remote Sensing Law: "Remote sensing is a valuable technology in science, foreign policy, national security, and commerce. This course provides an overview of international and domestic remote sensing law and identifies issues in the United States and the international community."
U.S. Domestic Space Law: "This course covers the most developed body of domestic space law in the world: that of the United States. It addresses the nation's civil and military programs and offers a wide variety of commercial activites: launches, remote sensing, and satellite communications, among others."
International Space Law: "This course provides an overview of current international space law in U.N. resolutions and treaties and customary law. It identifies legal theory and principles used in the advancement of civil, military, and commercial space activities."
Journal of Space Law (practical): "The Journal of Space Law is an academic review of national and international scope, focusing on the many aspects of space, remote sensing, and aerospace law. Research, writing, and editing assignments, and other duties necessary to the operation of the Journal of Space Law. One hour credited for each term of participation to maximum of 4 hours. Limitation: credit not available if enrolled in the Mississippi Law Journal."
RTFA before uninformed commentary. HTH.
Space Lawyer sues YOU!
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k5Elsda1GI This commercial PROVES that my client, the FIRST Space Lawyer, was on the scene much, much earlier. Naturally, we plan on a countersuit that will involve reparations including the spaceship that this "so-called" "Space Lawyer" rode in on...
I think Commodore Mendez said it best:
"This is a court of SPACE LAW, not a theatre!"
(It's never too late to join the Renaissance)
It reminded me of the Red Dwarf episode, 'Back to Reality', where Kryten thinks he's Jake Bullet, who he assumes is a high-powered Robocop type because of his fancy title.
Kryten: (Whipping out his badge) Bullet, Cybernautics!
Cop:: That's traffic control!
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
Quick! Somebody squash it before it replicates! Look what happened to Earth where they missed the chance when there were only a few of them around ...
- space phone sanitizers
Yup. My degree is AE, but I never did that outside of school. Now I'm an architect (buildings). They don't care about my AE degree much.
Mississippi Space Medical School Grads
Space Lawyer would eventually have turned up on Voyager.
What the article doesn't tell you is that he has already been hired by the RIAA in an effort to prepare for bittorrent trackers aboard satellites.
He may have been the first to graduate from an accredited program in Space Law, but he is far from being the first "Space Lawyer" - Arthur Dula was practicing Space Law back in the early 80's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_M._Dula