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2nd Generation "$100 Laptop" Will Be an E-Book Reader

waderoush writes "At a conference sponsored by the One Laptop Per Child Foundation this morning, OLPC founder unveiled the design for the foundation's second-generation laptop. It's actually not a laptop at all — it's a dual-screen e-book reader (we've got pictures). Negroponte said the foundation hopes that the cost of the new device, which is scheduled for production by 2010, can be kept to $75, in part by using low-cost displays manufactured for portable DVD players."

286 comments

  1. Bye bye books by 1155 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bye bye books. We'll miss you!

    Maybe schools in the states can get these and stop spending my hard earned cash on books. Oh wait, they already paid for them. I used the same book my mom used in high school (her name was on it!).

    1. Re:Bye bye books by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, it is if she were a victim of abstinence-only education which, in addition to being boring and therefor not helpful, also fails to teach kids to put on a damned condom, then it would be the school district's fault.

      or Bush's... whichever option is worth more karma.

    2. Re:Bye bye books by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even if the schools did spend money on these devices, there would be no content to put on them. The same problem exists for the original OLPC project. Luckily they had Open Source software, and were able to get a working machine with no software cost, but I still don't think there's a lot out there in free textbooks. It's a wonder that the US Government just doesn't hire a few people to write some textbooks that they would use in their schools. For gradeschool and even highschool, the material is simple enough that it wouldn't take that much to get the job done, and then they could have textbooks for the cost of the paper, or if they used ebook readers, then copies would be free. Is there any particular reason textbooks are bought from third parties instead of just written once and used in all the schools?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous+Monkey · · Score: 1

      I can top that. I had my dads high school desk. He carved the answers to every test he took in that class into the suffice so I never had to study for a test ever! But my friend Laslo memorized every answer ever, that was more helpful.

      --
      We are the Borg...
    4. Re:Bye bye books by thermian · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't worry too much. Negroponte has pretty much handed over control of his project to Microsoft now, since he's demonstrated that if they want something he'll do it without worrying.

      With Microsoft at the helm we can all rest easy in the knowledge that the OLPC experience will soon become so complicated, restricted and slow that no-one will want to use them anyway.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    5. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect this has to do with state/local governments wanting to decide what is taught in their educational system. I'm sure someone else can provide the detail.

    6. Re:Bye bye books by j-beda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have thought the same myself - surely basic texts need not change much from year to year, and big markets like Texas and California have to spend enough on textbooks that the cost of writing them "in-house" would be cheaper than purchasing them.

    7. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are kidding yourself if you think that this is going to save schools money. Look at the prices for e-books versus the dead tree versions.

      You can bet textbook publishers aren't going to give a big discount.

    8. Re:Bye bye books by xSauronx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Textbooks are clearly a lucrative business, good luck getting enough people to care about the costs to overcome whatever lobby various publishers would put together to keep the status quo.

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    9. Re:Bye bye books by digitalgiblet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmm. Are you sure you want the government writing the textbooks?

      Currently local governments (or at least state governments in some cases) SELECT the textbooks, but there are options. There isn't that much competition, but in this case ANY competition is a good thing. Government written and mandated textbooks sound pretty scary to me...

    10. Re:Bye bye books by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      nope. it will never happen. Professors and their desire to rape the students by publishing slight revisions of their drivel year after year for insane prices are what keeps ebooks from being common.

      If I could carry my entire semesters books in one reader I would be in heaven. All college students would love this.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    11. Re:Bye bye books by ragefan · · Score: 1

      I have thought the same myself - surely basic texts need not change much from year to year, and big markets like Texas and California have to spend enough on textbooks that the cost of writing them "in-house" would be cheaper than purchasing them. I sure the issue is more likely where would Texas and California have over 1 million books printed (not to mention all the other states)? The only places that have the printing/binding ability to handle that kind of load (and able to deliver in a reasonable time) are the same people trying to get them to buy $150+ textbooks every year.
    12. Re:Bye bye books by bsDaemon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Well, my karma is already "excellent" -- so unless there is a "nirvana" option that no one but Taco and Cowboy Neal have gotten to yet, then I don't need to try that hard.

    13. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Are you sure you want the government writing the textbooks? To standardize curriculum? Yes.

      Currently local governments (or at least state governments in some cases) SELECT the textbooks, but there are options. Which is a dreadful disaster in many cases. Just look at Kansas and the creationists polluting local school districts to get their nonsense put into schools.

      There isn't that much competition, but in this case ANY competition is a good thing. Yeah, you either spend $0 on one book or $145 on the other book, if there even is a second book available in the subject, that's basically identical.

      Government written and mandated textbooks sound pretty scary to me... Is it for an actual reason or just the usual nonsense paranoia where we have to hate/fear anything that the government does without any rational reason to do so?
    14. Re:Bye bye books by mhall119 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You'd get even more karma if you can work in blaming the RIAA/MPAA too.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    15. Re:Bye bye books by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Informative

      The form factor is that of a dual-screened eBook, but they have a popup touch-screen keyboard as an application. It's a computer, kinda like a super-sized Nintendo DS. There are pictures of if accepting typed input, of it being held like a book, and of it laying flat like a board game between two kids.

      I know the site listed in the summary is almost gone under the load, but there are lots of sites with news and pictures if you Google for "2nd generation OLPC". Two of them (spread the load!) are Laptop Magazine and GotteBeMobile, both of which are responding well as of right now.

    16. Re:Bye bye books by mhall119 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Google open textbook and you'll find lots of sources and initiatives for free educational texts.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    17. Re:Bye bye books by digitalgiblet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Government written and mandated textbooks sound pretty scary to me... Is it for an actual reason or just the usual nonsense paranoia where we have to hate/fear anything that the government does without any rational reason to do so?

      Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean the government isn't brainwashing you via their "official" textbooks.

      Be careful what you ask for.

    18. Re:Bye bye books by lbgator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Check out WikiBooks. They aren't quite there yet, but some of their stuff is quite good - and being a wiki, your inputs are encouraged.

      With cheap laptops/ebook readers on the horizon, and projects like WikiBooks / Project Gutenberg I am hopeful that we are only a few years from prolific material availability.

      Also, slightly off topic - but since you mentioned schools I'd like to refer you to Lockhart's Lament. Do we even really need text books?

    19. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was the chapter on the civil war titled "Trouble Ahead"?

    20. Re:Bye bye books by servognome · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why does it have to be all bound up nicely? In college many of my "books" were professor notes that were essentially photocopies printed out on plain paper with cheap plastic binding - cost maybe $5.
      Have students pay for the printing and the taxpayers pay for the content.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    21. Re:Bye bye books by j-beda · · Score: 1

      I sure the issue is more likely where would Texas and California have over 1 million books printed (not to mention all the other states)?
      I cannot believe that they couldn't find someone to print their order. There are lots of printers out there, and they do not all have to come from the same print shop - spread the printing around the state.
    22. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      So it's apparently not for any rational reason and just the usual paranoia. Thanks for clearing that up.

    23. Re:Bye bye books by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

      As a service to our readers, Slashdot has translated the essential points of your post into modern English:


      bu bi buks we'l mis u! lol

      mebe skuls in the us can get thez & stp spending my hrd urnd $$ on buks. lol lol

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    24. Re:Bye bye books by Arterion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some students can't even pay for lunch. How are they supposed to pay for printing their books, too?

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    25. Re:Bye bye books by value_added · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, it is if she were a victim of abstinence-only education which, in addition to being boring and therefor not helpful, also fails to teach kids to put on a damned condom, then it would be the school district's fault.

      You've got to look at the bright side of life.

      Abstinence-only education tends to encourage casual oral sex (frequent, one would hope) as a substitute for losing one's virginity. Or making babies.

      Who could be against more blowjobs? Not me.

    26. Re:Bye bye books by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I didn't read that Lockhart's Lament that you linked to (I will later). But I have to say, that in a lot of instances, I haven't really seen the need for textbooks, especially in the K-12 school range. Up until high school, I don't really recall having many textbooks. Most of the information was provided by the teachers, and there was a few photocopied handouts for the most part. Once I hit highschool, mostly only math courses had textbooks, but for those it was mostly so the teachers could assign questions out of them, and they weren't really ever just read for studying purposes. Most of my learning even through university has been done without a textbook. And the courses where the textbook was important in learning the material are some of the worse taught courses I have ever had.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    27. Re:Bye bye books by csetzer · · Score: 1

      Though I know there's a hot spot in hell for those who price text books, I think that's not totally relevant here. Professors still have the chance to feed their egos and their pockets with the e-book model. Those who stand to lose are the publishers and their printing companies.

    28. Re:Bye bye books by graphicsguy · · Score: 1

      There really are people out there like Karl Rove, whose main purpose in life is to rewrite history and twist it to suit his philosophy. We need to be careful that school textbooks are not political tools that are easily and quickly changed to suit the whims of any current administration. Having said that, it's still possible that some day when oversight of government is suitably restored, it's conceivable that government could subsidize textbook authoring without mandatating a single textbook to all schools.

    29. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you want KARMA around here you have to say it was Micro$oft's fault because Bill Gates is in league with the Devil and Bush.
      I'm sure I'm not saying anything you haven't heard before, but you are a douche.
    30. Re:Bye bye books by Vamman · · Score: 1

      After working as an IT admin for a small publishing house I've come to realize that producing these ebooks are not as simple of a process as some people might think. In fact I find the production of ebooks out weighs the benefit. Most ebooks are developed from a production book and they are stripped down (lower resolution images mostly). There is little excuse while publishing houses do not produce more ebooks for the schools and Universities other than the fact that they are scared that no one will buy the ebook at cost of production ($100 on average for a typical science text book) and will likely just share one legal copy with everyone. There is no big plan in terms of ebook readers and I think the publishing industry is actually run by a bunch of anti-tech dummies that don't know a pdf from a word document. These people are happy with the system they created and are certainly not interested in producing less paper books that saves trees, not that having a billion more laptops running in all schools across North America is going to do much more good for the environment (if anything at all). Personally I find ebooks annoying to read. I'm a geek and I like screens, but reading an ebook with a back light on just leaves me with a headache. There is nothing comparable to picking up a book and flipping pages. I'm almost inclined to say that books are still needed, especially in a University setting. Another suggestion by a poser geek in administration... Going terribly wrong.

    31. Re:Bye bye books by AmishElvis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure I like the idea of the government being the one to decide what my child learns in school. I know they do already to an extent with standardized tests, but actually letting government write the textbooks seems dangerous. It seems like it would lead to a lot of sugar coating of history. Also, I'm pretty sure we'd find "the cost of the paper" to be pretty expensive. Government is incapable of doing things cheaply.

    32. Re:Bye bye books by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      but I still don't think there's a lot out there in free textbooks.
      If you talk to any group of PhD students in any math department in the US, you'll learn that there are indeed a wide variety of text books (at least for higher education) available for free. There are even private bittorent trackers that are just for textbooks.

      Since the current US presidential administration is doing everything it can to prevent middle- and working-class youngsters from getting a higher education, it's quite reasonable to expect them to try to get their books for as little cost as possible, even using extra-legal means.

      There are certain groups of ethnic students who have made an art form of getting a copy of a text from the library or elsewhere and copying and assembling dozens of samizdats from it. I guess they're taking the old saying "Information Wants to be Free" seriously.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    33. Re:Bye bye books by Ana10g · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Currently local governments (or at least state governments in some cases) SELECT the textbooks, but there are options. Which is a dreadful disaster in many cases. Just look at Kansas and the creationists polluting local school districts to get their nonsense put into schools. While I agree that having the creationists polluting local school districts is a bad thing, this wouldn't solve it. The Kansas state government, in this case, would just write the textbooks in such a way that the creationists are still polluting the curriculum.

      There isn't that much competition, but in this case ANY competition is a good thing. Yeah, you either spend $0 on one book or $145 on the other book, if there even is a second book available in the subject, that's basically identical. Well, actually, using an E-Book in this situation wouldn't be free. It would be free to distribute and publish, sure, but not to write. I'd be really surprised if you could find someone (especially a state employee) to write an entire textbook for free.
      --
      just an analog boy living in a digital age.
    34. Re:Bye bye books by servognome · · Score: 1

      There can be some grant programs to help those who really do not have the money, but the vast majority of students can pay $50 a semester for loose-leaf books. Many low income students can afford $50-100 fee to play a sport, so paying for books shouldn't be that big of a problem.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    35. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      There really are people out there like Karl Rove, whose main purpose in life is to rewrite history and twist it to suit his philosophy. Yeah, there the ones who in places like Kansas get themselves elected to school boards to do exactly that already and have been doing so for decades.

      We need to be careful that school textbooks are not political tools that are easily and quickly changed to suit the whims of any current administration. Too late. School textbooks have been political tools of state/local governments and school boards for many years now (aka teaching of Evolution). I'm failing to see why that's okay, but if the federal government got involved the sky would start falling.

      Having said that, it's still possible that some day when oversight of government is suitably restored, it's conceivable that government could subsidize textbook authoring without mandatating a single textbook to all schools. So instead we can get all sorts of conflicting curricula across the country. That's definitely the better alternative.
    36. Re:Bye bye books by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      Google is your friend

      One example: due to the ridiculously high prices of (mostly imported) textbooks in South Africa, university students there have started working on a Free High School Science Texts project.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    37. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      While I agree that having the creationists polluting local school districts is a bad thing, this wouldn't solve it. The Kansas state government, in this case, would just write the textbooks in such a way that the creationists are still polluting the curriculum. I was talking about federal standards based on the recommendations of groups like the NSF.

      Well, actually, using an E-Book in this situation wouldn't be free. It would be free to distribute and publish, sure, but not to write. I'd be really surprised if you could find someone (especially a state employee) to write an entire textbook for free. I wasn't talking about e-books in the statement, I was talking about the current situation when it comes to buying books and this supposed "competition" the parent was mentioning. And the dollar figure was supposed to be $150 not $0, that's a typo.
    38. Re:Bye bye books by wattrlz · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a good idea. I've been told, repeatedly, that the problem with textbook prices is a royalty issue. Getting the examples and articles written by people who went to school longer than the intended audience has been alive isn't cheap.

      If people were to donate the content book prices would be down around the price of printing. Once the content is secured and the machinery is in place actually churning out the books is an almost negligeable expense - from what my friends in publishing tell me. Even if that's not the case the institution in question could just make ebooks and buy OLPC2s for about the same initial cost.

    39. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who could be against more blowjobs? Not me.
      but you do have to lick a lot of pussy
    40. Re:Bye bye books by Rogue+Haggis+Landing · · Score: 2, Informative

      nope. it will never happen. Professors and their desire to rape the students by publishing slight revisions of their drivel year after year for insane prices are what keeps ebooks from being common.

      FWIW, the textbook "upgrade treadmill" of constant small revisions is driven by publishers, not professors. The majority of professors are not textbook authors, and my experience working in university libraries is that a lot of them work pretty hard to keep the costs to their students down.

      But the publishers want to put out a new version every year or two, and I can't exactly blame them. Otherwise, their new sales would be completely overwhelmed by the used market. If the majority of students resell their Econ 10 textbooks it doesn't take too many years until there aren't any sales of new textbooks. So the constant small changes. I don't like the effect of it, but the reasoning is absolutely clear. Just another small miracle of capitalism!

    41. Re:Bye bye books by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Luckily they had Open Source software, and were able to get a working machine with no software cost,
      One could argue their open source software came with a pretty hefty cost.

      Reinventing the wheel and then not finishing it is putting the hurt on their little machine. It's a shame they don't have the software to compliment the quality of the hardware in the xo.

      in before FOSS zealots and "fix it yourself!"
    42. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what happens when the creationists lobby at a federal level?

    43. Re:Bye bye books by orasio · · Score: 1

      You can hire a couple of good writers for 100k a year each. In a year, you get a book for 200k, with no copyright issues. I think it might be a good deal.

    44. Re:Bye bye books by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The cost is not just in the writing but also in the peer review, editing, and re-checking of facts to ensure accuracy and completeness. That is why really good textbooks are relatively more expensive than their page count, material, and binding might suggest.

    45. Re:Bye bye books by LordVader717 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It isnt the Kansas state government thats screwing things up, its the local districts. I doubt they will be willing to write whole textbooks.

    46. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bye bye books. We'll miss you!

      Maybe schools in the states can get these and stop spending my hard earned cash on books. Oh wait, they already paid for them. I used the same book my mom used in high school (her name was on it!). So who graduated first?
    47. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there is something wrong with this? If your answer is "Yes", then you need to meet a better class of woman.

    48. Re:Bye bye books by digitalgiblet · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there the ones who in places like Kansas get themselves elected to school boards to do exactly that already and have been doing so for decades.

      So, if the FEDERAL government were to mandate the kind of books you object to in Kansas, you'd be cool with it because it was the federal government that did so and ALL the schools in the country were using the same book?

      Yes, I know your answer to that question is "no", but you are assuming the federal government will write books you agree with. What if they don't?

      My point is that once you hand the power to the government to write the textbooks and mandate that all schools in the country will use them, you will have a very hard time taking it back if they choose to write books you don't like.

      Although I agree wholeheartedly that our current system is lightyears from optimal (or in some cases, functional) at least now you have the option of getting the heck out of Kansas if you don't like their textbooks. It may be difficult, but there is no LAW stopping you from doing so. At least I don't think there is, but then I've never tried to leave Kansas (or enter Kansas for that matter).

      Your point about curricula is valid, but there is a big difference in mandating curricula and having official text books.

    49. Re:Bye bye books by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      Well definitely it's a benefit to have different curricula for different students. It produces a wider range of ideas that then interact when these people move on from high school. On the other hand, "conflicting" curricula, depending on the level of conflict, are not a good thing, and having half the students unable to do multivariable calc isn't a good idea either. I like systems that have consistent minimum standards across all schools but still allow for flexibility. The main difference between a system that does this well, such as IB, versus one that doesn't (arguably the current California public school system), is that IB sets the minimum standards much higher.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    50. Re:Bye bye books by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      So, I started reading the Lockhart's Lament.... I haven't read the whole thing, as it is longer than I have time for at the moment. You can be sure that I will go back to read the rest. I have to say that the first few pager are some damn good writing. Thanks for the link.

    51. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      Well definitely it's a benefit to have different curricula for different students. Not what I was talking about. No one said anything about abolishing things like honors classes, etc.

      On the other hand, "conflicting" curricula, depending on the level of conflict, are not a good thing, and having half the students unable to do multivariable calc isn't a good idea either. Or when students in particular areas aren't getting proper science education because their school board is being used as a political tool.

      I like systems that have consistent minimum standards across all schools but still allow for flexibility. I don't disagree.

      The main difference between a system that does this well, such as IB, versus one that doesn't (arguably the current California public school system), is that IB sets the minimum standards much higher. Again, I'm all for that.
    52. Re:Bye bye books by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      nope. it will never happen. Professors and their desire to rape the students by publishing slight revisions of their drivel year after year for insane prices are what keeps ebooks from being common.

      If I could carry my entire semesters books in one reader I would be in heaven. All college students would love this. I've known a few professors who published textbooks. In all cases, they fight to have low prices. Sometimes they win and can get a paperback published for $20 after the publisher demanded a $100 hardcover, and sometimes they can't, but it's the publisher setting the high price, and as another poster said, they're also the party demanding the slight revisions.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    53. Re:Bye bye books by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      So, if the FEDERAL government were to mandate the kind of books you object to in Kansas, you'd be cool with it because it was the federal government that did so and ALL the schools in the country were using the same book? Well if they were getting their book recommendations from groups like the NSF, we wouldn't have that situation. :)

      Yes, I know your answer to that question is "no", but you are assuming the federal government will write books you agree with. What if they don't? Well then that'll be a situation to deal with just like what happens at the local level. I wasn't assuming any such thing, you're just trying to put words into my mouth.

      My point is that once you hand the power to the government to write the textbooks and mandate that all schools in the country will use them, you will have a very hard time taking it back if they choose to write books you don't like. And yet states do this all the time and in many cases this decisions have been reversed. Why suddenly if it's the federal government is this some how going to be different? Can you give an actual reason rather than scare tactics? You keep harping on about the federal government yet the state/local government do the exact thing right now that you are so scared about the federal government doing. Why is it okay for them to do it and yet if the federal government does it the sky is going to fall?

      Although I agree wholeheartedly that our current system is lightyears from optimal (or in some cases, functional) at least now you have the option of getting the heck out of Kansas if you don't like their textbooks. Yeah, because everyone has the money to just up and move at the whims of a school board election.

      It may be difficult, but there is no LAW stopping you from doing so. At least I don't think there is, but then I've never tried to leave Kansas (or enter Kansas for that matter). No, there is no LAW, but it would be cost prohibitive to almost any person who isn't somewhat wealthy. Besides, getting a job in your line of work you do isn't necessarily available everywhere.

      Your point about curricula is valid, but there is a big difference in mandating curricula and having official text books. How so? The two go hand in hand.
    54. Re:Bye bye books by legirons · · Score: 1

      other than Wikipedia? As textbooks go, that's pretty good

    55. Re:Bye bye books by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > Textbooks are clearly a lucrative business...

      Exactly. You could get the top experts to put out free ebook texts that were total works of art, where not a single complaint could be lodged against them and school districts would still buy texts from the usual suspects. Too many bribes to overcome.

      Think it through. Go examime what states (just in the US) spend on texts and imagine how much less exensive it would be for them to pool a fraction of that money into paying quality experts to write really good sections/chapters/units/etc. on every topic, illustrated by top notch artists and have all the supplementary materials created, all as works for hire and then released into the public domain as official government publications. Then each school district could pick and choose the chapters they want and either have em published on demand or loaded onto ebook readers. Either option would be far less expensive than what they currently pay. And since only the chapters actually being used would be printed, kids wouldn't be lugging around so much dead weight.

      Doing it this way would mean that after the initial expense was sunk only minor revisions would be needed in successive years. But it would be a net financial win in the FIRST set of textbooks issued to students and all of the current fights over textbook content would instantly become local issues amendable to the local political process, thus the warfare would end.

      But what I just proposed is totally self evident, so that it doesn't happen and has no realistic chance of happening means the fix is in.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    56. Re:Bye bye books by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Do you hate secure networking that much? As the documentation Swordfish showed, a blowjob ans John Travolta holding a gun to one's face is everything that stands between a hacker and a 128 bit-encrypted login form revealing the administrator password!

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    57. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think liberals (who run our educational system) could all agree on which books are "correct" for teaching such complex things as beginner math and grammar??? HA!

    58. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if they were getting their book recommendations from groups like the NSF, we wouldn't have that situation. A few more Bush years, and the NSF would probably be funding research on Intelligent Design :-) Seriously, though, our science-based agencies are clearly vulnerable.
    59. Re:Bye bye books by timbck2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll put a plug in here for the Distributed Proofreading Project [www.pgdp.net], a volunteer, web-based organization that processes books that have gone into the public domain into e-texts suitable for Project Gutenberg.

      It's a great project, and kinda fun (for geeks like us).

      --
      Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
    60. Re:Bye bye books by mollymoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The form factor is that of a dual-screened eBook, but they have a popup touch-screen keyboard as an application.

      Arrrgh! There was some future computing expo featured on /. a few weeks ago that was full of touchscreen keyboards as well. It's a horrible idea. There's no tactile feedback and no give to absorb the impact, so your fingertips will take much more of a beating than using a conventional keyboard. Touchscreen keyboards are fine for, say, typing a few numbers at a checkout, but for anything like serious input they're just an awful idea.

      I never really understood why the OLPC project insists on reinventing the wheel. The mesh networking and screen were impressive tech, but why reinvent the computer desktop in the form of Sugar? Now they're going with an untried form factor. Just build a decent, inexpensive, robust laptop and ship the damn thing. I find it more than a little patronising that kids in less developed countries apparently can't be expected to use similar software to kids in the first world. When they grow up chances are they're gonna be using Windows, Gnome or KDE (or Aqua, if they're incredibly rich by local standards). They're all more like each other than they are like Sugar. I say start 'em young.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    61. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you need to try the Iliad, the Kindle or the Sony PRS.... while only the Kindle seems to actually be selling, they are all eInk based devices, and all are fantastically readable.

    62. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not the professors. It is the publishers. I have yet to have a prof who didn't offer to share their royalties check (usually on the order of $3 or $4) with the class. And still, kids gave them a hard time about it. Then again, I haven't had anyone who wrote a math or science book.

    63. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess what. The Professor can release the textbook as creative commons and flip a double F-you to the publisher.

      My taxes pays his salary, my taxes helped pay for his education, it's high time his ass gave back to society.

    64. Re:Bye bye books by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · · Score: 1

      Blowjobs suck!

      --
      "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
    65. Re:Bye bye books by slimjim8094 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      CowboyNeal's karma is squarely in the 'Creepy' category.

      CmdrTaco, however, obviously does have 'Nirvana' karma. How could it be any other way?

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    66. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who could be against more blowjobs? Not me. Not me. It'll be even more sex I'm not getting.
    67. Re:Bye bye books by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      You raise a good point... how are students going to "tag" eBooks? I used to love reading the names and years of all the people who had used my books before me. It was one of the things that made eading the textbooks interesting!

      What're kids going to do now? Scratch their names into the PC case/screen itself?

    68. Re:Bye bye books by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      So instead we can get all sorts of conflicting curricula across the country. That's definitely the better alternative. Hell yes it is, as it stands the entire country is failing, if everybody did their own thing, somebody might stumble across an affordable solution that works. *Then* we can standardize.
      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    69. Re:Bye bye books by mc_secular · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the corruption problems (kickbacks from vendors; revolving door hiring policies, etc) are way bigger and more real than creationism or spooky government control. I work in an urban school district, and while creationism might be the textbook problem in Kansas, we spend a ton of money on textbooks recommended by insiders who will later go on to work for the vendors. Needless to say, that $ could go towards other things. The XOXO would be awesome for our district.

    70. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a lot of open content text books available. And you have projects like Gutenberg to provide a hundred thousand books for the project.

    71. Re:Bye bye books by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree with you to a very large degree.

      However, the revolution doesn't have to come with eBooks. Many schools make extensive use of publishers such as Dover Books, who specialize in printing out-of-copyright material very inexpensively.

      If good public-domain textbooks were available, an entire industry would quickly spring up to print these books as cheaply as possible. Printing doesn't have to be expensive, and a good book can last through several generations of student... I've been a big critic of the OLPC project, primarily because these free texts don't yet exist, and because their existance would allow us to print dozens of books for less than the cost of an XO.

      Many educators are fed up with the "New Maths" that have been shoved in their faces, and I imagine that there (hopefully) will be some sort of grassroots effort to build a solid base of public-domain educational texts. Although I wouldn't be terribly keen on the government literally "writing history", I'm sure many state governments would be willing to fund such an effort.

      Frankly, I preferred the old texbooks, and the traditional methods of teaching to the new stuff that was forced on us. Writing a textbook that teaches basic concepts, and provides a few homework questions for reinforcement isn't rocket science. "The rest" should be left up to the Instructor to fine-tune to their own individual students.

      Also, thanks to Wikipedia, much of the framework is already in place. It should be fairly trivial to restructure (and verify) Wikipedia content into a series of educational textbooks, given that most of the hard work has already been done.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    72. Re:Bye bye books by dunng808 · · Score: 1

      Anyone interested in contributing to open-source textbooks should visit the Open Slate Project. The textbook piece has a wiki up and is looking for submissions. The reason why open-source textbooks have not been a success is the difficulty in accessing them. The Open Slate Project intends to solve the problem of bringing IT into the classroom, not as a subject for study so much as a tool for learning through communication.

      --

      Gary Dunn
      Open Slate Project

    73. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a kid can't figure out how to put on a condom on their own, they probably shouldn't be having sex.
      It's not like you need to follow 13 pages of instructions to put one on.

    74. Re:Bye bye books by captjc · · Score: 1

      I don't see the real problem with it. It will set a standardized curriculum (of which the government all ready has) and will have free-to-copy books for students. Grants to major universities to produce, revise, and update the books in electronic form would help reduce much of the bureaucratic overhead (and hopefully, though doubtfully, some of the major government-does-no-wrong-because-USA-is-perfect biasing) . But biasing is only a real problem in history / civics books. Science (ok, the whole evolution/ID debate aside), math, geography, and Languages / Grammar are pretty hard to bias. Literature can pretty much be covered using Project Gutenberg texts (thus no real need to create a complete textbook). If everything is distributed electronically, leave it up to the state or school district to print the books (the federal government probably shouldn't be printing them anyway).

      The largest assumption is that school districts will be mandated to carry these books. That would be an un-American monopoly that would be deeply contested by every single publishing house in the country. But it could and probably would be optional. School districts that are so poor that they still use 25+ year old books could easily choose these as low-cost alternatives (probably a combination of publishing their own or requiring / issuing cheap ebook readers to students). The richer schools could afford other textbooks if they choose. So even if the history books are heavily biased, no one is forcing a school district to use it.

      Think of it as a school lunch model. Schools must provide a lunch to a child even if he has no money. However there is usually only one selection. Those who can afford it, can get the alternate things on the menu or can even can bring their own lunch. In this case, Government should have the standardized curriculum (history, math, science, etc) available for free to anyone who needs it to make sure that all children have a proper education. Those students / districts that cannot afford to purchase textbooks can always fall back on those funded by the government. Those students / districts that can afford to buy better textbooks can do so if they please. Either way, the students should not be denied a proper education because they live in a poor area.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    75. Re:Bye bye books by kesuki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OLPC is basically a way to stick big bills to small countries for 'educational laptops'

      in TFA OLPC 'complains' about how many countries thought they should have designed the whole thing around cellphone chipsets and displays (and inputs) to get even cheaper costs, and their argument is 'cellphones aren't laptops' typical imperialistic ideals...

      all you need is something that can display informational text that should be able to be changed slightly each year, and for each region...

      and possibly some way for the end user to take quizzes or tests on the material they read....

      India wanted $10 laptops, and they made their own program, and i have no doubt they actually used small cheap processors like the ones in cell phones to make their project. they only got down to $50 last i heard, but still OLPC were $200 devices, and this one 'will be $75 in 2010' India expects their 'device' to be a lot cheaper by 2010. (though there is little known about the project in India, I assume they will try to use as much cheap cell phone tech as possible)

      they also find the OLPC program to be suspect, why would you target grade school children in less developed countries to use expensive laptops that could be sold on the open market for three times the price paid by their countries for them as educational tools...

      why teach children in poor countries on computers, when it's not even standard in developed nations? I definitely agree with India's problems with the OLPC project, consider the countries that have welcomed the project,

      "Rwanda (G1G1 pilot)[42]
      Americas
      Haiti (G1G1 pilot)
      Mexico (50,000 laptops bought by billionaire Carlos Slim)
      Peru (270,000 laptops bought, now receiving laptops)[43]
      United States of America (15,000 laptops bought by Birmingham, Alabama)[44]
      Uruguay (100,000 laptops bought, now receiving laptops)[45]
      Asia
      Afghanistan (G1G1 pilot)
      Cambodia (G1G1 pilot)
      Mongolia (G1G1 pilot, now receiving 10,000 laptops"

      Nigeria was going to order a million, but then elections were held and they haven't solidified the contract, Nigeria the number one source of Internet crime, was the most interested in OLPC.... bah, there is no reason for less developed nations to buy laptops to train kids, it's all a con to get those countries to go into debt to buy things that won't help their economies, that will do nothing but create a cast of children who want fancy electronic gadgets that they can never afford... unless they're as corrupt as Nigeria and create a class of criminals who focus on stealing as much as possible from developed nations...

      if OLPC was serious about creating bare-bone education devices they would have modified cellphone style devices, instead of starting around a general purpose CPU with a complex operating system and complicated displays etc etc...

      computers were originally designed around micro controllers for microwave ovens, basic text parsing and display is easy and cheap if you don't encumber the device with a fancy OS...

      and for 'interactive textbooks' especially when you're targeting less developed countries, should focus on being as simple (and as cheap) as possible. OLPC isn't about bringing electronic textbooks to everyone, it's about making fancy electronic devices and teaching impressionable children to desire them...

    76. Re:Bye bye books by jhoger · · Score: 1

      Are younger first world kids learning to program, create video and music, collaborate in real time, read e-books? Sugar is not a dumbed-down version of first-world GUIs. In fact, if I were to make a OS for pre-school through 4th graders it would definitely use a lot of the ideas in Sugar.

      Also you make the mistake of thinking modern desktop software crammed into laptops is a good idea. In fact, the traditional desktop overlapped window GUI absolutely sucks on laptops. Just about anything carefully thought out would be better.

      That said, OLPC definitely has not done enough "compromise" to reality of need to ship something relatively complete and usable on time. I think they are trying to make up all at once by capitulating to the Windows Way. A mistake. Experimental GUI features are great if they are quickly vetted on test subjects and problems dealt with right away.

    77. Re:Bye bye books by bigblackcar · · Score: 1

      The question is: will it run Linux?

    78. Re:Bye bye books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Typically US Gov't funded stuff is banned if a COTS version is available. (commercial off the shelf)

      the gov't doesn't want to be in competition with powerful campaign contributers.

    79. Re:Bye bye books by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      I had my mom's little brother's 8th grade grammar book when I was in 8th grade. Sadly, in the case of grammar books, that was a much better text than ones used now. I would love to have a class of college English students in which everyone could identify the subject of a sentence or even be sure what nouns, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs are. It's damn hard to teach poetry classes without students having that sort of basic knowledge.

    80. Re:Bye bye books by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Although I wouldn't be terribly keen on the government literally "writing history", I'm sure many state governments would be willing to fund such an effort.

      That is the important part. If MANY governemnts do that (on lots of different levels), and teachers are free to choose them, then there is no problem on they being writen by the State.

    81. Re:Bye bye books by Laur · · Score: 1

      The cost is not just in the writing but also in the peer review, editing, and re-checking of facts to ensure accuracy and completeness. That is why really good textbooks are relatively more expensive than their page count, material, and binding might suggest.(emphasis mine)
      Have you actually read a high school or younger text book lately? They are full of errors and inaccuracies! Sure, maybe the math books are okay, but any social studies (history, etc.) and even science books have many problems. The textbook industry is really screwed up, I think an open system could do a lot to help things, and it would be very hard to make it worse.
      --
      When you lose something irreplaceable, you don't mourn for the thing you lost, you mourn for yourself. - Harpo Marx
    82. Re:Bye bye books by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      There are quite a few people who think overlapped windows in GUIs are a bad idea on any display.

      I prefer something that gives me multiple full-screen applications among which I can switch quickly. Give me a hotkey or a right-click menu for the OS, a program launcher, and switching among programs and give the left and middle buttons (scrollwheel) to the current program. Unfortunately, many applications are written around what they think is a reasonable GUI and use multiple windows. Using the GIMP on an interface like ION or ratpoison is almost as big a pain as using it when the windows overlap each other within the same application. With dual displays, I'd love to have two full-screen apps open and have my apps each handle everything within the one screen.

      I think the interface for elementary students no matter where they live should be considered carefully around holding one's attention on the task at hand and not messing with resizing and repositioning the UI elements. The Windows, OS/2, KDE, and Gnome model seems to be overly complex when the point is the applications and not ow many of them you can overlap on the screen at once.

    83. Re:Bye bye books by Eccles · · Score: 1

      But making decent handouts available would be even easier than making textbooks, and just as applicable to the OPLC ebook. You could even have short animations to make relationships more obvious. My son had a math test yesterday, for which I tried to prepare him by writing up a quick test. I corrected him on his mistakes, and thought he was getting to understand the material. But gradewise he did not do well on the test. I would love to have a large library of practice problems available on a variety of topics, as making the practice test was quite time-consuming -- time that would have been better spent helping him solve additional problems.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    84. Re:Bye bye books by jridley · · Score: 1

      Our school district already gives laptops to students, and their books are already loaded on the laptop as ebooks.

    85. Re:Bye bye books by AmishElvis · · Score: 1

      I work in the defense industry which uses exactly the model you describe - pay private industry to develop products for the government. I can tell you the bureaucratic overhead is enormous, and the Money Spent to Products Produced ratio is extremely poor. My favorite example is the Comanche helicopter program. Again, I strongly suspect that textbooks funded by the government would not be low-cost alternatives at all. I also strongly suspect that they will end up being inferior to privately funded textbooks. If the adoption of the government texts were optional, no school in their right mind would buy these expensive, inferior products -- which is not to say that no school would buy them. Your other argument, that biasing would only a real problem in history / civics books seems to imply that this would be no big deal. I beg to differ. I think it is only through knowledge of our past mistakes that we can grow as a society. Using government funds to write textbooks would open them even further than they already are to every piss ant congressman and shady special interest group obscuring the past mistakes that reflect poorly on them. Legislators from Georgia would try to minimize the amount of space given to the black lynchings that occurred in their state after the Civil War. The NRA and the gun control lobbyists would squabble over the interpretation and presentation of the Second Amendment. Over time, our textbooks would minimize more and more of our past questionable behavior, like the textbooks in Japan.

    86. Re:Bye bye books by jhoger · · Score: 1

      Yep. Ion is my primary WM. You can get GIMP to work though with some fiddling.

      Generally though, I want the WM to manage my windows.

      The better thing would be for GIMP to adopt a UI more like Inkscape.

    87. Re:Bye bye books by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      Because different schools/districts/etc. have different curriculums and want different books.

      There are a million different issues relating to textbooks, not only highly controversial things related to historical biasing and evolution.

      If there was a single federal standard texbook, it would be a constant struggle of people across the country vying for how they are written, and no one would be satisfied.

      That's not to say the idea doesn't have any merit, but it would not be easy at all. It might make more sense to do this as a collaboration of districts/schools/states/etc. with similar curriculums and ideas.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
  2. OS by Spatial · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Maybe Microsoft can kindly provide the OS for that one too, for a mere 40% of the cost of the device.

  3. laptop is an e-book reader? by hansraj · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have some beach-front estate to sell. It is not near any beach and it is actually a chair.

  4. Obligatory by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But can it run Linux?

    1. Re:Obligatory by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Funny

      But can it run Linux?
      No, but it's been certified Vista Ready, and they haven't even built one yet.
      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:Obligatory by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      No, but it can display the Linux source code.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:Obligatory by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      Of course it can. The kids will find a way.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  5. Wrong summary and title by Etrias · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you had read the article, the original, version 1 of the OLPC laptop will be $100. This new version has no price set in it's unveiling.

    1. Re:Wrong summary and title by PaintyThePirate · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Negroponte says the cost of this 2nd-generation device, which uses dual-touch screens with 16:9 aspect ratios, will be kept to $75."

      The plan is $75. That doesn't mean it's any more realistic than the original $100 goal for the XO-1. I'd be surprised if they could get it below $150 at launch. The only way $75 is possible is if companies are donating hardware to it.

    2. Re:Wrong summary and title by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I think it's possible. You can get a portable DVD player for $80 retail. This thing has the same screen, probably doesn't have a DVD drive, but has some other internals that a different. Cut out the cost of the DVD licensing fees, and you could easily have an ebook reader using this screen for $75. Granted, I'm not so sure that these screens are the best for reading a lot of text. An eInk display would probably work a lot better. But it's definitely doable at that price.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Wrong summary and title by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      A $75 laptop in a year's time - what's that? 3 Euro?

      --
      Nullius in verba
  6. Soo... by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OLPC's goals have gone from providing a platform that allows full intellectual expression and room from growth and development, to running XP so maybe kids and type a book report or something, to now merely being a way to passively consume printed media?

    And last week I thought that this project couldn't get any farther from good.

    1. Re:Soo... by PaintyThePirate · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because it's shaped like a book, it must be a book, right?

      This is not a book. It's, I imagine, going to have an x86 cpu and an OS capable of running Activities already written for the XO-1, plus anything else imaginable.

      Negroponte's presentation showed two kids playing pong on one laptop and suggested the same could be done with games like chess or checkers, as one example. It is a laptop with two touchscreen displays, which is nothing short of amazing.

    2. Re:Soo... by PaintyThePirate · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh, I see where the confusion was. As usual, the Slashdot headline and summary are at best vague, and more likely completely misleading. There is better information here: http://blog.laptopmag.com/first-look-olpc-xo-generation-20.

      That article also contains the news that Give 1 Get 1 will be restarting in August or September.

    3. Re:Soo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The OLPC is fast losing any semblance of credibility.

    4. Re:Soo... by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Well, I went to the article that was linked from the summary and skimmed over it and looked at the photos. However, "E-Book Reader" is something VERY different from "book-shaped computer," which, if that is in fact what this thing is, might be sorta cool... i guess.

      however, under MS's thumb, its still going to be fairly useless.

    5. Re:Soo... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. i played with an XO for the first time about three months ago and as I held it I thought "Why isnt this thing in the form factor of an e-book?" So much real estate is wasted on trying to make it a general purpose computer. Kids, in real life, wont be hacking code 90% of the time, they'll be reading ebooks for their studies. This form factor is a lot smarter for how these students are actually going to use them.

      Heck, Im still pissed there's no affordable e-book reader out there. I already have a couple of nice laptops and a nice desktop. I dont need another machine, but I would love a cheap (sub 150 dollar) e-book reader that accepted all sorts of formats and was easy on the eyes. I dont know why sony and amazon think the price point for these things is 300+ dollars. It 99 dollars or less. If the XO people do this it will be pretty revolutionary.

    6. Re:Soo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we're wise to their games now. They'll talk about providing cheap learning material for children in poor countries, and about having a cleaned up version of Wikipedia in their own language on it, and then in some years Negroponte will say that it really was about getting a Blu-ray player into as many hands as possible, and they'll have each machine come with a Netflix subscription.

    7. Re:Soo... by xSauronx · · Score: 1

      It is a laptop with two touchscreen displays, which is nothing short of amazing. O RLY?



      yeah, not exactly the same. but a dual touchscreen device isnt that amazing. What will be amazing is if they can hit even $150 for this thing.

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    8. Re:Soo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that they've seriously deviated from the original stated gameplan, it's going to be a harder sell to convince people to BUY one of those things. When it was the idea to provide learning tools instead of el-cheapo armored laptops to kids (which is what the project has apparently become...), buying two and getting one made sense to foster the project's goals. Since they've apparently radically deviated from this goal, I don't have anywhere near as much desire for acquiring one. For the same price, I can get a MUCH more powerful eeePC, and even they're wembling on the whole thing because of pressure from Microsoft on that line.

    9. Re:Soo... by bill_kress · · Score: 1

      Completely gutted.

      I am kind of seeing one potentially good outcome. Perhaps they planned it, or fell into it accidentally.

      You spend all this money coming up with an OS that can run on a simple laptop, and the hardware research to build the laptop.

      Now like with software development, everything is much easy and much better the second time, but you've got all this debt and all this baggage and can't start over.

      So you see Microsoft in the corner trying to figure out how to stop you--you hand the company over to them but slip the important stuff out the back window. You get to start over and shrug off all the debt and baggage.

      (I don't know that there is debt, just guessing).

      Then you start over with the REAL OLPC program. You might even partner with one of the new ultra-cheap laptop companies this time.

      You take and compete with the original which (perhaps due to some "guidance" by the moles you left behind) has been gutted so bad it can't compete.

      This time you are at least as well funded and you have a better product and a huge following. Microsoft has shot it's wad as well in destroying the first attempt.

      Overall perhaps they couldn't have carried it out better if they had planned it.

      Sorry, but I'm so pissed off about the whole thing I've decided to live in a fantasy world for a little while.

    10. Re:Soo... by speroni · · Score: 1

      Seems like OLPC should work on getting their first product working in reasonable and cost effective manner before they start showing off their next generation.

      What seemed like an awesome and virtuous idea has clearly tanked. Let's show pretty pictures of things that might be, instead of getting the first generation of working product into the hands of those who need it. Oh well, I guess it was over when they sold out to MS in the first place.

      Also, the pictures on the link http://blog.laptopmag.com/first-look-olpc-xo-generation-20 really rather look like CGI to me. I like how the video only showed the still photos found else where on the page. Their "book" doesn't seem to have a hinge, just a magic crease in the middle that disappears when its flat.

      â(TM)¦â(TM)£â(TM)â(TM)¥

      --
      Eschew Obfuscation
    11. Re:Soo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. I am so glad someone expressed this opinion. I couldn't agree more. The project has changed beyond recognition from its original description.

      More worryingly, what general conclusions are we to draw from this departure? That large scale benevolent projects such as OLPC cannot survive intact in our capitalist world?

      What kind of world have we created?

      This is so sad :-(

      RS

    12. Re:Soo... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      That article also contains the news that Give 1 Get 1 will be restarting in August or September.

      Great, so the next iteration of the program will be starting up just as the last donor from late 2007 finally gets their long-overdue delivery!

      After my experiences with the Grand Clusterfuck of G1G1 mk I, not to mention the Windows Compromise and the resignations of so much of OLPC's top talent, I'm discouraging everybody I know from contributing. Even if it's "Give 1/2, Get Three".

    13. Re:Soo... by urcreepyneighbor · · Score: 1

      And last week I thought that this project couldn't get any farther from good. Never trust a mob of people that say they want to help you. Never.
      --
      "The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
  7. Just Call Nintendo by dreadlord76 · · Score: 1

    And ask for a DS Lite with 2 bigger screens.

    1. Re:Just Call Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, that is actually what this "vision" sounds like -- a Ninetendo DS but with the poor-quality screens found on low-end throw-away DVD players. You seriously do not want to be reading text on those screens.

      It is 2008. Why don't they wait for the free market to solve this one now? The general idea is there and if the UN would provide the distribution channel and basic qualifications for a product (minimum specs), then manufacturers would start showing up. Even Microsoft is willing to giveaway XP for free to secure an emerging market where Linux is the obvious champion otherwise.

      Oh, and another good idea for next time is to not grant patents to those people hired to make the machines. Letting the people in charge of the program rake in incredible sums as a direct result of design decisions subject to serious conflicts of interest is not a good idea. So goes the general concept of revolving-door government, I would think. Ahem.

    2. Re:Just Call Nintendo by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 1

      Why don't they wait for the free market to solve this one now? Because this is about education and not raking in profits?

      Even Microsoft is willing to giveaway XP for free to secure an emerging market where Linux is the obvious champion otherwise. Which is an even better reason to keep them out. This isn't about securing them a new revenue stream, but to help educate children.
    3. Re:Just Call Nintendo by SL+Baur · · Score: 1

      It is 2008. Why don't they wait for the free market to solve this one now? As far as I can see, they're solving it now. Dead tree books don't stand a chance in the jungle.

      I've seen a (private elementary) school "library" that consisted of a huge college intro to Shakespeare and a couple of high school level science books (in English). If this project can bring reading material to kids who would otherwise have no access whatsoever to written material, I'm all for it.
  8. Summary/beginning of the article doesn't cut it by sznupi · · Score: 1

    ...because it seems it definatelly can be used as laptop, thanks to dual touchscreens. (and calling it E-Book reader...hm, I think we settled what that term means and XO-2 isn't exactly it...)

    I wonder what OS will be there...

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
  9. Mass Production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with the XO-1 mass produced in 2007, and the next generation only 3 years later, in 20010, how do they intend to get the economics of scale to bring down the cost of the XO-1

    1. Re:Mass Production by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 2, Funny

      and the next generation only 3 years later, in 20010, I think 20010 is more than 3 years after 2007.
    2. Re:Mass Production by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      by installing windows on it obviously

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  10. Amazon is shaking in its boots by whtmarker · · Score: 1

    First the OLPC redefines the low cost laptop market, now this? The Kindle now seems a bit overpriced at $399.

    1. Re:Amazon is shaking in its boots by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the Kindle is aimed at turning a profit. OLPC is aimed at recouping the costs of manufacture. Kindle is available now. This is planned for two years from now.

      Still, I thought Kindle was crap when I first saw it. This does make it look worse, but they're not exactly on an even field.

  11. that's not the only factor by sootman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Negroponte said the foundation hopes that the cost of the new device, which is scheduled for production by 2010, can be kept to $75, in part by using low-cost displays manufactured for portable DVD players...
     
    ... and in part by waiting until 2010 to make it. In two years you'll be able to buy a used first-gen iPhone, iPod touch, or Kindle for $75. At least he's aware of it: "Negroponte said the foundation plans to bring out the second-generation device by 2010. By that time, he added, the cost of the original XO Laptop will also have been brought below $100."
     
    Also, the "low-cost displays manufactured for portable DVD players" bit worries me some, since those displays don't have a particularly high pixel density. Who wants a 7, 8, 9" screen to read from that's only ~720x480? Yeah, it'll work, but it'll be far from ideal.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:that's not the only factor by digitalgiblet · · Score: 1

      Also, the "low-cost displays manufactured for portable DVD players" bit worries me some, since those displays don't have a particularly high pixel density. Who wants a 7, 8, 9" screen to read from that's only ~720x480? Yeah, it'll work, but it'll be far from ideal.

      Here's there new slogan: "OLPC: Blinding Children Around The World".

      This doesn't sound like a conspiracy with Microsoft, this sounds like a conspiracy with the OPTOMETRISTS UNION!

    2. Re:that's not the only factor by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      In two years you'll be able to buy a used first-gen iPhone, iPod touch, or Kindle for $75.
      And you think they'll still be working?
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:that's not the only factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, to be fair, the sinking cost of technology could be somewhat made up for by the ongoing inflation of the dollar.

    4. Re:that's not the only factor by sootman · · Score: 1

      If my perfectly-functional three-year-old iPod with video, five-year-old Dock Connector iPod, and seven-year-old iBook are any indication, yes, they'll be working just fine.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    5. Re:that's not the only factor by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      Who wants a 7, 8, 9" screen to read from that's only ~720x480? Yeah, it'll work, but it'll be far from ideal. It's not ideal, but it works pretty damn well on the eee. This is what F11 is for.
  12. Power usage? by Coopjust · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Doesn't the OLPC use a lower power screen? How does the battery life with these cheaper, power hungry screens? It would kind of defeat the purpose of this if you could only use it for an hour without plugging it in...

    1. Re:Power usage? by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doesn't the OLPC use a lower power screen? How does the battery life with these cheaper, power hungry screens? It would kind of defeat the purpose of this if you could only use it for an hour without plugging it in... The system will employ the dual indoor-and-sunlight displays, which was pioneered by former OLPC CTO Mary Lou Jepsen. The design will provide a right and left page in vertical format, a hinged laptop in horizontal format, and a flat, two-screen continuous surface for use in tablet mode. âoeYounger children will be able to use simple keyboards to get going, and older children will be able to switch between keyboards customized for applications as well as for multiple languages,â the press release reads. The device will also reduce power consumption to 1 watt.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    2. Re:Power usage? by Grisha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting, given that they aren't touch screens... So he makes an analogy to portable DVD player screens, then says they plan on using OLPC displays, and _then_ says they'll be touch screens.

      So how can this possibly be had for $20 a screen? that's $20+OLPC Screen Cost + Touch Screen Cost = ???

      He has some effed up math.

    3. Re:Power usage? by eclectro · · Score: 1

      They will just use really, really long extension cords.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    4. Re:Power usage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The system will employ the dual indoor-and-sunlight displays, which was pioneered by former OLPC CTO Mary Lou Jepsen.

      And surely available on a license from said Jepsen at "reasonable" cost.

      Is it just me who notice how the top people in the OLPC are the only ones who truly benefit, being "consultants" for the parts providers, holding patents, or otherwise getting real profits out of a doomed project, with the veneer of helping others?
      I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- OLPC is not about reaching out to the children, it's about making Negroponte and his buddies richer than they already are. You're being had.
    5. Re:Power usage? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      The system will employ the dual indoor-and-sunlight displays, which was pioneered by former OLPC CTO Mary Lou Jepsen.

      IIRC, the OLPC XO-1's pioneering screen was kept low-cost by using a standard, inexpensive LCD matrix as already manufactured for portable DVD players, but with a custom-made filter that transmits hue (R, G, or B only) and intensity when backlit, and intensity only when not. It seems logical that the XO-2 would use the same technology in its two screens.

      a flat, two-screen continuous surface for use in tablet mode.

      Good luck getting either the display or the touch surface to be flat or continuous, when by necessity there will be bezel edges and a hinge separating the screens.

      ounger children will be able to use simple keyboards to get going, and older children will be able to switch between keyboards customized for applications as well as for multiple languages

      Wasn't Negroponte just last week critical of Sugar developers for using OLPC as a test bed for experimental HCI concepts, instead of remaining focused on the core goal of education?

      And now he wants to implement a whole new modal control system, one that even Art Lebedev Studios concedes is still impractical, within the next two years?

      Not to mention the goddamn Osborne Effect. How many potential buyers of XO-1 laptops are being dissuaded by his announcement today that a better XO-2 model is just around the corner?

      Nick Negroponte has always been a better dreamer than a doer. It's not a bad way to be when you run a media research lab, but when you're trying to build and sell a real-world commercial product, you need to leave the logistics in the hands of those more interested in and capable of them.

  13. Not for me. by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Until they come out with an ebook reader that has a full color, 200+dpi (reflective, not emmissive) display that itself is letter-size or larger (or perhaps a tabloid-sized dual screen display that folds in half a little like opening a book), I'm just not interested.

    1. Re:Not for me. by value_added · · Score: 1

      Until they come out with an ebook reader that has a full color, 200+dpi (reflective, not emmissive) display that itself is letter-size or larger (or perhaps a tabloid-sized dual screen display that folds in half a little like opening a book), I'm just not interested.

      Letter-size or larger, huh? If you're looking for childrens books, I'd suggest staying with the real thing. They often have lots of fun popup thingies you can play with. If more adult fare is what you're after, maybe you want to rethink your requirements. Published books tend to be much smaller than letter-sized paper. And for good reason.

      Same thing goes for colour. I'd imagine a colour device would also require more power, which means less reading time, or more batteries to carry around.

    2. Re:Not for me. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I'm not so much into children's books as much as PDF's that are usually formatted for 8.5x11". Granted, I don't need color for every page, but because it's not uncommon for the types of articles that I like to read to have color plates attached, it's damn nice to see the pages in color for the ones that need it.

    3. Re:Not for me. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'm just not interested.
      That's OK, I'm interested enough for both of us.

      I hope I don't have to wait for these to show up on Woot to get one.

      I expect that this will put sufficient downward pressure on the current overpriced ebook readers that we should start seeing some reasonably priced ones pretty soon.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Not for me. by PieSquared · · Score: 1

      Go ahead and consider a hardback novel. Now open the thing up so you can see two pages. Get the idea? Letter sized isn't over-big at all... and also allows viewing documents intended for printing and static web pages instead of just plain text.

      As for color... I can't imagine it takes significantly more power to change a screen from reflecting all light to reflecting only one wavelength then to go from reflecting all light to reflecting none. Especially if you manage to do the thing with sub-pixels or whatever.

      --
      Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
  14. BTW...another hardware trend started by OLPC? by sznupi · · Score: 1

    ...because I definatelly can't see such devices around me...and it would be sort of nice.

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
  15. Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    I have nothing but rage and contempt for Negroponte and the OLPC project. I will not support a project that betrays its contributors by abandoning the principles that motivated them.

    Windows on the OLPC is an outrage and clear evidence that the OLPC project is no longer about helping children and only about making money and creating a new form "Microsoft Tax" for the poor and developing nations.

    Its bullshit. Its like giving money and time to a charity called "one meal per child" and find out it has decided to use your contribution to bring dollar off coupons for McDonalds happy meals.

    1. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Greg_D · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Really? Rage and contempt? Over a value priced computer aimed at educating kids who otherwise would never get to use ANY computer?

      You should see a mental health practicioner and get your priorities in order. Your stupidity is clouding your view of reality.

    2. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Really? Rage and contempt? Over a value priced computer aimed at educating kids who otherwise would never get to use ANY computer?

      Yes, helping Microsoft expand its monopoly is bad for the world. Its bad for the industry. The amount of money and control that Microsoft exercises because of its monopoly has ruined the ISO, destroyed companies, and kept back innovation in the marketplace.

      Selling "Windows" when they could give away free software is not a good will gesture.

    3. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha ha! You're a Microsoft apologist.

    4. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? Rage and contempt? Over a value priced computer aimed at educating kids who otherwise would never get to use ANY computer?

      As has been pointed out repeatedly, "educating kids" is an utter impossibility when OLPC+Windows combination is involved. The term you are looking for is "indoctrination". It is so for many, many reasons mentioned already a million times here, not the least of them the lack of any useful free "educational" software for XP, never you mind the storage for it on the OLPC.

      Using "ANY" computer, "education" does not make. If that was the case, a far more cost effective way then the OLPC would be to simply ship used throw-away computers that clog our city dumps here (some of them far more powerful then the OLPC will ever be) to Africa in bulk.

      You are confusing granting haphazard access to some fraction of the Western commercial technology, which requires a (very expensive) ecosystem of other commercial technology to be useful and which will never be available at the prices those kids can afford, with "educating" them. This is a purely corporatist view of the world and if it were up to people like you, education in the West would consist of giving kids a brand-name calculator (with no instructions) and calling it a "mathematics and electronics course" and as the parent poster insightfully mentioned, "a cooking course" would consist of a bunch of McDonalds coupons, etc and so on.

      And there is of course the wee little bit of the matter of active mis-representations Negroponte has engaged in over the years on behalf of the OLPC project, but I guess that is far too esoteric for you to grasp.

      You should see a mental health practicioner and get your priorities in order. Your stupidity is clouding your view of reality.

      In the light of the actual facts you should take your own advice on this.

    5. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by brewstate · · Score: 1

      Ok... The M$ thing is irksome but we have already seen that Microsoft will do what it feels is good for its business and giving children XP for peanuts or free is good for MS. Look at how they have decreased licensing in India, then look at the excellent MS centric Programmers that it produces. Truthfully MS could have easily programmed for it and distributed it freely without the OLPC allowing it officially. At least this way the distributed botnets should be interesting to deal with.

    6. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by hansraj · · Score: 1

      Selling "Windows" when they could give away free software is not a good will gesture. What do you "mean"? Is there some other "side" of the "story" we are not "aware" of?
    7. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      Typical troll, start with an insult and degenerate from there. To address your "points:"

      Kids in developing nations don't want stupid crap FOSS software that only makes some Finish/Norwegian/Swedish a**hole richer! They want to have any available computer so they can actually learn it. So, why they will need a freak operational system that is only used by spoiled millionaires?

      Sorry, I can't even parse this sentence. OS used by spoiled millionaires? What OS is that?

      They need to know how to use Windows because that is the system they will find at work

      Teaching dubious skills for the future that a certain segment of industry may find useful today is a waste of resources. Pushing an open and FREE (as in beer and freedom) software environment will promote learning and communication far better than the Microsoft monopoly tollbooth. The kids need TOOLS to learn.

      Imperialist pricks!
      Interesting, the only "Imperialist" in this discussion seems to be Microsoft.

    8. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Dude you seriously need to lay off that weed. You are getting paranoid.

    9. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      Windows on the OLPC is an outrage and clear evidence that the OLPC project is no longer about helping children and only about making money and creating a new form "Microsoft Tax" for the poor and developing nations
      No it is clear evidence that the momentum for Windows can't be ignored. Just like OLPC kept an x86 compatible CPU instead of going with something more efficient for the embedded market.
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    10. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Dude you seriously need to lay off that weed. You are getting paranoid.

      AC posts like this are a perfect example why all ACs should be by default moderated as "-1 Noise".

    11. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm making a fortune off of Windows software. Speak for yourself. It's always funny when people like yourself get all weepy eyed and altruistic. Any business situation is going to leave some people making money and other people out in the cold. Your complaints and corrections would only shift things around, not change them.

    12. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 3, Informative

      No it is clear evidence that the momentum for Windows can't be ignored

      Windows has no momentum, it is an obstacle. Vista is a joke. People are sticking with XP. Macintosh is starting to out-sell Wintell on high end desktops.

      The *only* reason Windows hasn't been abandoned by its disgruntled users is because of Microsoft's continued illegal actions in maintaining its monopoly. All too many users say "I hate it, but have to use Windows."

      There is *no* practical reason to put Windows on the OLPC. It brings nothing to the table but additional cost. The only purpose for it is to satisfy a vengeful and corrupt monopolist.

    13. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your complaints and corrections would only shift things around, not change them.

      The economic facts are against your argument. Assuming the market stays constant and additional competition does not increase the marketplace (as almost always happens), taking the gross and net income of Microsoft, and divide it across 6 companies, 3 OS companies roughly balanced between 25% and 30% market share, and 3 office product companies, again, 25% to 30% market share.

      The six companies would employ more people and have a lower profitability. The lower profitability of the companies would mean that they spend more and cause more circulation in the economy and decentralize and distribute the wealth better.

      More people with more wealth means a better economy.

      With multiple companies competing, there would be competition, competition would mean actively supporting your competitors formats so that you can hope to take their users. Competition would mean standards that enabled the various vendors to interact, because they would have too.

      Startup companies would have a much lower barrier to entry in entrenched markets.

      That's what capitalism is all about and why a monopoly destroys it.

    14. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Greg_D · · Score: 1, Troll

      There is an enormous glut of Windows based freeware out there specifically tailored to the needs of children, many of which go above and beyond any Linux based edutainment package (and WAY more kid friendly). You're just angry because Microsoft is better at selling their software than you are at proseletyzing your bullshit.

      You, also, should go seek mental help, since you're obviously a paranoid shut-in hoping to waste your words of delusion in the hopes of gaining karma.

    15. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I have nothing but rage and contempt for Negroponte and the OLPC project.
      I want to know a little bit more about the circumstances surrounding this recent announcement about Windows on the OLPC before I throw Negroponte and the OLPC under the bus. There may be circumstances surrounding this decision that change things.

      "Rage and contempt" is too energy-intensive of an attitude to adopt until more facts are known. If the goal is to put lap-tops into the hands of children, and there is something about this deal with MS somehow makes that goal more attainable, then it might not be so bad.

      After all, the OLPC has USB ports, right? How hard will it be to remove Windows and install Ubuntu on them? If the third-world's children are going to learn about computing, they might as well learn how to format a hard drive from the get-go.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      Don't dismiss backwards compatibility, look at how much software is there for Windows computers, it was the defacto standard for a decade.
      Yes Mactel is outselling Wintel, but Apple still recognized the influence of Microsoft by including Bootcamp in their latest OS - do you decry them for abandoning the idealism of computers without Windows?

      The *only* reason Windows hasn't been abandoned by its disgruntled users is because of Microsoft's continued illegal actions in maintaining its monopoly. All too many users say "I hate it, but have to use Windows."
      Yes, I agree people are locked into Windows, but the reason they use it isn't because of monopolistic actions, it's because they need it to for the software they want to use, low cost for hardware, and support from hardware suppliers. The only reason I run Windows is because of computer games, if I could get the games for OSX I would abandon windows.

      There is *no* practical reason to put Windows on the OLPC. It brings nothing to the table but additional cost. The only purpose for it is to satisfy a vengeful and corrupt monopolist.
      The practical reason is all the software out there written for Windows. Why spend time trying to find software for Linux or Mac when there are shelves of software for Windows at the mall for less than $1
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    17. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      If the goal is to put lap-tops into the hands of children, and there is something about this deal with MS somehow makes that goal more attainable, then it might not be so bad.

      That was NEVER the stated goal. That was the means to the goal, which was to promote freedom and self sufficiency and openness. An OLPC running free software leaves them free to manage and grow their infrastructure. Putting Windows on it eliminates this ability and makes them sharecroppers on a Microsoft owned farm.

      How hard will it be to remove Windows and install Ubuntu on them?

      the same old bullshit monopolist crap. Pay the M$TAX and then put something free on it.

      No, the OLPC should come with Linux, and, if they want, pay the extra and put Windows on it.

    18. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      Windows on the OLPC is an outrage and clear evidence that the OLPC project is no longer about helping children and only about making money and creating a new form "Microsoft Tax" for the poor and developing nations

      Yeah, what were they thinking, using the OS that the vast majority of educational software runs on? You'd think they were actually trying to make the OLPC more suited to its primary task or something. Those traitorous bastards!

    19. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      There is an enormous glut of Windows based freeware out there specifically tailored to the needs of children, many of which go above and beyond any Linux based edutainment package (and WAY more kid friendly)

      Then the OLPC project, as a whole, is pointless, right? You can't have it both ways, you know. Either there is an "enormous glut" of "free" "educational" software for Windows out there, that is useful out of the box for the application (i.e. localized in 20+ languages, including Swahili) in which case OLPC is moot as we can just ship it on all those Windows laptops presently headed for the garbage bin at the fraction of the cost, or the OLPC is needed to make custom-tailored software for this platform in accordance with the original OLPC project mission, in which case there is no free software for XP presently available suitable for this task and it has to be written from scratch (or adapted), no? What about cost of extra storage (XP being 20 times+ the size of the core Linux system with equivalent base functionality)? What about development tools and educational tools to teach kids about computer programming? Visual Studio just isn't in the cards, you know. And all of this just a tip of the iceberg of problems Windows brings to the table.

      Again, your lack of elemental understanding of what is really involved in this undertaking is just staggering. It seems you are proud of your utter ignorance and wish to flaunt it for all to see.

      You're just angry because Microsoft is better at selling their software than you are at proseletyzing your bullshit. You, also, should go seek mental help, since you're obviously a paranoid shut-in hoping to waste your words of delusion in the hopes of gaining karma.

      The hate and rage just ooze from your posts like slime. Which makes your "advice" all the more ironic. Glass houses and all that ...

    20. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      Dude you seriously need to lay off that weed. You are getting paranoid.

      AC posts like this are a perfect example why all ACs should be by default moderated as "-1 Noise".

      You can do that yourself in your settings.

      Also, beyond your anger toward MS, there's no content in your posts on this topic. You claim that the OLPC is incapable of educating children because MS is providing the OS. I, in turn, suggest you wait and see how it turns out.
      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    21. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      "Macintosh is starting to out-sell Wintell on high end desktops." Macs are not starting to out-sell Windows. They are out selling Windows in the > $1000 market. That is like opening a hotdog stand that charges $75 for a hot dog, selling one, and then bragging about how you are the #1 seller of > $75 hot dogs in the world.

    22. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      The purpose of the OLPC:

      Any nation's most precious natural resource is its children. We believe the emerging world must leverage this resource by tapping into the children's innate capacities to learn, share, and create on their own. Our answer to that challenge is the XO laptop, a children's machine designed for âoelearning learning.â

      A computer uniquely fosters learning learning by allowing children to âoethink about thinkingâ, in ways that are otherwise impossible. Using the XO as both their window on the world, as well as a highly programmable tool for exploring it, children in emerging nations will be opened to both illimitable knowledge and to their own creative and problem-solving potential.

      OLPC is not, at heart, a technology program, nor is the XO a product in any conventional sense of the word. OLPC is a non-profit organization providing a means to an endâ"an end that sees children in even the most remote regions of the globe being given the opportunity to tap into their own potential, to be exposed to a whole world of ideas, and to contribute to a more productive and saner world community.

      http://www.laptop.org/en/vision/mission/

    23. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      > Yeah, what were they thinking, using the OS that the vast
      > majority of educational software runs on?

      Warning, a low flying clue is about to be fired in your direction. The Truth has a tendency to be painful....

      That vast library of educational software you speak of.... how much of it is localized in a language useful to the targets of the OLPC project?

      Reader Rabbit ain't worth much unless you plan on teaching em English.

      Windows XP itself probably isn't localized in some of the languages they will need for OLPC.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    24. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      I wrote:Macintosh is starting to out-sell Wintell on high end desktops.

      Which is a fact.

      You wrote: Macs are not starting to out-sell Windows

      Which has nothing to do with what I said.

      You continued:That is like opening a hotdog stand that charges $75 for a hot dog, selling one, and then bragging about how you are the #1 seller of > $75 hot dogs in the world.

      Which is bogus, because a hotdog costs $3.00, and a $75 dollar hotdog would mean a > $25,000 computer in proper relationship.

      Macintosh is out selling Wintel on high end desktop computers, This is a fact. It means people are mostly buying the cheapest Wintel they can because there is no point in buying anything better. People are buyig high end macs because its better.

      As trends go, the high end almost always translates to low end over time.

    25. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      You can do that yourself in your settings.

      That provides no feedback to the AC.

      Also, beyond your anger toward MS, there's no content in your posts on this topic.

      Anger? Since when mentioning the obvious logical implications is now called "anger"? You ascribing your emotions to me.

      You claim that the OLPC is incapable of educating children because MS is providing the OS. I, in turn, suggest you wait and see how it turns out.

      So far the OLPC hasn't produced much of anything very useful in the field, Windows or Linux notwithstanding, admittedly because the task is very difficult and the project young. With Windows their job just got harder by an order of magnitude and again, I shall not rehash the many, many reasons why, you can look up all the other Slashdot discussions on this.

      Subsequently, judging by past performance and all the other factors involved, my bet is firmly on the "Epic Fail" outcome.

    26. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Windows on the OLPC is an outrage and clear evidence that the OLPC project is no longer about helping children and only about making money and creating a new form "Microsoft Tax" for the poor and developing nations. OK, I just want to point out that each Third-World nation has precisely one legal copy of Microsoft Windoze, and everyone pirates off that as much as they need.

      Windows market share? Yes. Microsoft Tax? Oh hell no.
    27. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fool me twice, shame on me. I believe the quote has been updated and is now:

      Fool me once, shame on you.

      Fool me ... fool me ... you can't get fooled again.

    28. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by westlake · · Score: 1
      helping Microsoft expand its monopoly is bad for the world. Its bad for the industry. The amount of money and control that Microsoft exercises because of its monopoly has ruined the ISO, destroyed companies, and kept back innovation in the marketplace.

      Spare me.

      In 1980 the 5 MB Winchester hard disk drive would have set you back about $2000.

      In 2008 the 1 GB USB keychain drive is a corporate giveaway that costs $5 each in purchases of 1000.

      The Geek builds his Linux PC using commodity parts designed for the mass market Windows platform. Apple builds the Mac out of commodity parts designed for the Windows platform.

      The XO laptop is barely out of the gate before its commercial competitors are on its heels. It doesn't matter how "innovative" your tech is. What matters is how fast it become mass market.

      The fast track is the Windows implementation. The Windows driver.

      iTunes and the iPod are proof enough of that.

    29. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Spare me.
      I don't think I can.

      In 1980 the 5 MB Winchester hard disk drive would have set you back about $2000.

      In 1970 a 5 MB RKO drive was about $10,000. And guess what, Windows wasn't needed for the price drop.

      The Geek builds his Linux PC using commodity parts designed for the mass market Windows platform. Apple builds the Mac out of commodity parts designed for the Windows platform.

      In 1978 I build my first computer out of commodity parts too, no Windows needed (or DOS for that matter.)

      The concepts of commodity parts and rapidly accelerating technology development lowering prices is the nature of technology. I remember 256K DRAM chip prices sky high and falling fast, no Windows involved.

      The fast track is the Windows implementation. The Windows driver.

      Only because the caustic Microsoft monopoly. If there was competition, there would more standards in place and innovation would probably been even faster, or at least less wasteful.

    30. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      As has been pointed out repeatedly, "educating kids" is an utter impossibility when OLPC+Windows combination is involved.
      Why is this the case? Not all kids are interested in computers as a subject unto itself, most see computers as tools to do something. The ones who see computers as a tool want easy access to software that meets their needs, in many cases that means software written for Windows - which can easily and cheaply be acquired in the "underground" market. Those who are interested in the computer itself can easily find, install, and play around with other operating systems and learn the inner workings.
      Most people I grew up with who work with Linux and program professionally used DOS and Windows when they were younger. Personally I used Apple when I was young, DOS and OS/2 in my teens, Windows in college... it didn't matter what OS I'm running, it's all about the applications.
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    31. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      The ones who see computers as a tool want easy access to software that meets their needs, in many cases that means software written for Windows - which can easily and cheaply be acquired in the "underground" market.

      You are working with a Western-centric point of view, disregarding the fact that many (if not most) of the target (as per original project goals) kids do not speak English and require all their software to be localized in some tribal language, some of which have barely a written alphabet. When you take this into account, the whole logic of "easy access" to software falls apart (and that is irrespective of the fact that many of the places the XO laptops were supposedly meant for do not have any access to communication facilities and thus any access, easy or otherwise, to any additional software not already on the laptop. That is why, amongst the original, now quite forgotten, goals of the project was to cram as much of different kinds of software as possible the limited storage capacity. Linux was perfectly suited for that given the near complete coverage of the whole spectrum of possible applications in a relatively (compared to other systems) very small space. And ease of localization ... and a million of other reasons.

      Then of course is the cost of that "easy" accessible software. Windows on its own is useless and only becomes useful with the whole software ecosystem of dominant on the platform applications, each and every one of which exceeds the cost of the entire XO laptop many-fold! And then there is speed and storage, XO not being designed to run a full-fledged Office or Visual Studio ... and on and on and on.

      Look, I am not going to go over this ad-nauseum for the millionth time. Go look at the many prior Slashdot discussions about the OLPC project.

      Most people I grew up with who work with Linux and program professionally used DOS and Windows when they were younger. Personally I used Apple when I was young, DOS and OS/2 in my teens, Windows in college... it didn't matter what OS I'm running, it's all about the applications.

      Again, you are having difficulties disassociating yourself from your personal experiences and the Western outlook on things. You also conveniently forget that during the DOS and early Windows days one of the main vectors of "learning" by kids was ... rampant piracy. I personally have nothing against it, as I am an opponent of the whole Intellectual Property nonsense, but if this method is not going to be a) tolerated in a Microsoft controlled (no matter what Negroponte says) project, and b) it is no longer viable without high speed internet connections, given the monstrous size of these applications (never you mind that XO will never be able to run them).

      In essence Linux (or perheaps BSD or some such) was the only method by which the project goals, as originally stated, could have been achieved. That is why I said what I said. This has nothing to do with my dislike of Microsoft and its tactics, but is simply a result of logical analysis of the requirements versus what XP is bringing to the table. My reaction would have been similar with Mac OSX. These systems are simply not fit for the task, when you take the whole of the picture into account.

      So by using XP, Negroponte has essentially abandoned the original goals of the project and re-shaped it to be very narrowly applicable only to Western language speaking centers of former colonies with a relatively well developed communication and societal infrastructure, and even then I have no clue what is he planning to do with the woefully inadequate power of the XO in this new role for which it was not designed. This and also the rest of whole host of new problems brought on board along with XP.

      It was a very disappointing move and a wholesale betrayal of all those people who he was so busy convincing with his previous set of goals. If you ad

    32. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      You are working with a Western-centric point of view, disregarding the fact that many (if not most) of the target (as per original project goals) kids do not speak English and require all their software to be localized in some tribal language, some of which have barely a written alphabet.
      I believe the target audience isn't what you think. It was not intended for the poorest of the poor, but rather targetted at countries where the people have basic necessities but need a low cost computer to bridge the technical gap. Places like Uraguay, Nigeria, Thailand, Argentina, Brazil. No they don't speak English, but they also do not speak "tribal" languages.

      Then of course is the cost of that "easy" accessible software. Windows on its own is useless and only becomes useful with the whole software ecosystem of dominant on the platform applications, each and every one of which exceeds the cost of the entire XO laptop many-fold! And then there is speed and storage, XO not being designed to run a full-fledged Office or Visual Studio ... and on and on and on.
      Maybe this will come as a shock, but there is plenty of freeware written for Windows systems, and not everything is as bloated as Microsoft Applications.

      Again, you are having difficulties disassociating yourself from your personal experiences and the Western outlook on things. You also conveniently forget that during the DOS and early Windows days one of the main vectors of "learning" by kids was ... rampant piracy. I personally have nothing against it, as I am an opponent of the whole Intellectual Property nonsense, but if this method is not going to be a) tolerated in a Microsoft controlled (no matter what Negroponte says) project, and b) it is no longer viable without high speed internet connections, given the monstrous size of these applications (never you mind that XO will never be able to run them).
      Having visited a few of these countries I can say the "sneaker net" vector of getting applications is alive and well. You don't need high speed internet, you just need to stop by the mall, or marketplace stalls.

      In essence Linux (or perheaps BSD or some such) was the only method by which the project goals, as originally stated, could have been achieved.
      I don't see how Linux is the only way "To provide children around the world with new opportunities to explore, experiment and express themselves."

      This has nothing to do with my dislike of Microsoft and its tactics, but is simply a result of logical analysis of the requirements versus what XP is bringing to the table.
      You act like once an OS is on there it's impossible to remove. Including XP was a reaction to the demands of customers (typically governments), not some underhanded conspiracy.

      What excites me about the OLPC project is not what it ships with, but that as a platform it has excited numerous developers in both the commercial and open source communities. Anybody who thought the project would be the end-all to the computing needs of the developing world is a blind idealist. What it has done is identified a market and motivated hardware and software developers to address. It kicked off the "race to the bottom" and it's the competition that will ultimately meet the lofty goals set out, not any single specialized platform.
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    33. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      I believe the target audience isn't what you think. It was not intended for the poorest of the poor, but rather targetted at countries where the people have basic necessities but need a low cost computer to bridge the technical gap. Places like Uraguay, Nigeria, Thailand, Argentina, Brazil. No they don't speak English, but they also do not speak "tribal" languages.

      Not according to the original project evangelizing done by Negroponte. The audiences you describe do not need a specialized OLPC laptop at all, they would be much better served by refurbished and much more powerful laptops, which then can indeed run Windows and all the other jazz. OLPC's XO laptop made sense only if it were targeted at the kids in the tribal and impoverished areas. That is why there was talk during the original design process about hand-cranked generators and what not.

      Maybe this will come as a shock, but there is plenty of freeware written for Windows systems, and not everything is as bloated as Microsoft Applications.

      But is the source of it accessible? Freeware does not mean FOSS, especially on Windows. If not, the point is moot, the "freeware" is a single-language (most likely English) wonder which cannot be deployed even to the places you listed as none of them are English speaking.

      Having visited a few of these countries I can say the "sneaker net" vector of getting applications is alive and well. You don't need high speed internet, you just need to stop by the mall, or marketplace stalls.

      I am sure Steve Ballmer will be pleased. And the OLPC version of Windows will therefore come with no DRM ....

      I don't see how Linux is the only way "To provide children around the world with new opportunities to explore, experiment and express themselves."

      It is, given the original project parameters. If you change the parameters drastically then of course the solution will change as well ...

      You act like once an OS is on there it's impossible to remove. Including XP was a reaction to the demands of customers (typically governments), not some underhanded conspiracy.

      Err.. the governments in question are famous for being, for all intents and purposes, hives of villainous corruption and conspiracies. Add Microsoft into the mix ...

      As to removing XP, sure (assuming no nasty DRM will be put into the boot-loader - which actually was the case with Linux - yes I know, nuts, but that's Negroponte for ya) what is the point of going through the whole rigmarole then?

      What excites me about the OLPC project is not what it ships with, but that as a platform it has excited numerous developers in both the commercial and open source communities

      That "excitement" took a huge hit, as evidenced right here at Slashdot, particularly amongst those who were the most prone to write stuff for the XO, after the Negroponte's u-turn.

      Anybody who thought the project would be the end-all to the computing needs of the developing world is a blind idealist.

      Perheaps, but then a number one no-no for a project such as this is to pull stunts of the kind Negroponte just did. Alienating your most fervent supporters and replacing them with a multi-national corporation with decidedly questionable motives is not something that bodes well for the future of the project. Just from the good will and political stand points alone (which is critical for a project of this nature).

      What it has done is identified a market and motivated hardware and software developers to address.

      Fallacy #1: there is no "market". Unless by "market" you mean kids using free software who will never pay a dime for it. That is why FOSS was essential to this, no one else will, barring multi-million g

    34. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1
      I think our major difference lies in our expectation of the project. My understanding from the beginning was this was aimed towards developing countries that had the resources to provide education services, but did not have the resources for full computers. Places like Philippines, Brazil, Thailand etc. where people live in relative poverty, but have access to water and shelter. Such places don't have reliable power (hence the hand crank), and the cost for a laptop is expensive. Here is where I think the difference can be greatest, because those nations are connected, and creativity with computers can be shared and will allow them greater economic opportunities.

      That "excitement" took a huge hit, as evidenced right here at Slashdot, particularly amongst those who were the most prone to write stuff for the XO, after the Negroponte's u-turn.
      The excitement for XO may have taken a hit, but the excitement for a low cost, low power platform has not. Just because Negroponte lost focus with his specific project, doesn't mean somebody else isn't trying to pick up it up.

      Fallacy #1: there is no "market". Unless by "market" you mean kids using free software who will never pay a dime for it.
      Why does it have to be FOSS? There are people who write closed source for free.

      That is why FOSS was essential to this, no one else will, barring multi-million grants and corporate "gifts" (that keep on "giving") do this in a project dominated by non-FOSS, commercial ideologies. If there is no buck to be made, commercial entities won't touch it. And there is no buck to be made here by definition, unless you can afford to play long-term strategic market domination warfare games, which is precisely what Microsoft can do and does and why it was desperate to muscle its way into the OLPC.
      Doing the right thing for the wrong reason still results in doing the right thing. If the countries adopt XP as the primary platform and develop economically, what is the problem. They are still better off economically and in terms of education.

      "Race to the bottom" is a term which describes devastating effects of unregulated capitalism on various economies, specifically leading to spiraling descent into abject poverty of previously affluent middle-class. It is a four-letter word. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant something else by it.
      I was referring to the "race to the bottom" (according to Sony) where all the computer manufacturers are beating themselves up to create $100 & $200 computers and truly commoditizing the market. We are seeing more efficient, lower cost parts (eg Atom processor), and less bloated software - nobody will ever run Vista on these machines, and many people hack XP to slim it down when putting it on an EEE PC

      As to the rest, again, there is no money to be made on this directly, so I fail to see what will motivate all these contributors whom Negroponte just essentially kicked in the teeth.
      Not directly, but it should be seen as an investment. By growing smaller economies you then open up new commercial opportunities. As you mentioned before, many kids in the US started using computers with pirated software, but as they became more wealthy they had the means to purchase commercial software.
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    35. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      I think our major difference lies in our expectation of the project. My understanding from the beginning was this was aimed towards developing countries that had the resources to provide education services, but did not have the resources for full computers. Places like Philippines, Brazil, Thailand etc. where people live in relative poverty, but have access to water and shelter. Such places don't have reliable power (hence the hand crank), and the cost for a laptop is expensive. Here is where I think the difference can be greatest, because those nations are connected, and creativity with computers can be shared and will allow them greater economic opportunities.

      The talk was of remote tribal areas and of languages which traditionally have not seen any sort of computing applied to before. That is why there was a big hoopla about the XO's keyboard and its ability to be configured to weird languages (an artifact of which is that all the keys can be remapped in weirdest ways) and unheard of input methods. This alone tells you that the XO was indeed supposedly targeted at those who do not have the traditional access to education. Perhaps that was idealistic and impractical but it was a major part of the appeal and uniqueness of the project which drew in contributors.

      Why does it have to be FOSS? There are people who write closed source for free.

      Because not only is their number a fraction of those who contribute to FOSS, but the whole idea of closed source is an anathema to the supposed goals of such a project: education. If you were discussing a project whose aim was to distribute as many variants of solitaire or "trainers" for commercial games as humanely possible throughout the world, or pointless "utilities", the situation would be different. That is where the vast bulk of "freeware" on Windows is. The rest of the "freeware" is in fact "adware" or "crippleware". Attempts at giving away the "first hit" in efforts to hook the user and make him pay for the "full version".

      Doing the right thing for the wrong reason still results in doing the right thing. If the countries adopt XP as the primary platform and develop economically, what is the problem. They are still better off economically and in terms of education.

      As slaves of the US corporate "culture" you mean? Ever heard of "diversity"? Probably not. Getting wealthier at any cost is a very short-sighted way of thinking which has lead to untold disasters in the past. Also, it is the ultimate hubris and arrogance to think that everyone wants mini-Americas everywhere. This is the "thought" that drove the PNAC cabal with Bush in front to invade Iraq. Apparently there was an American, desperate to burst out of, in every Iraqi, or some such.

      But skipping the wider geo-political implications of the Microsoftization of the Universe, the main point of this discussion was that OLPC was supposed to be different, billed itself as being different and attracted supporters on the basis of being different. Remove that and the whole point of the OLPC project disappears. Any old "charity" can refurbish old laptops (most of which are way more powerful then the XO) and ship them bulk to the places you mentioned.

      The excitement for XO may have taken a hit, but the excitement for a low cost, low power platform has not. Just because Negroponte lost focus with his specific project, doesn't mean somebody else isn't trying to pick up it up.

      You mean the demand is still there, but from now on it will be only fulfilled in the easiest and most juicy (from the perspective of potential commercially strategic gains) areas. That means that the OPLC has lost its edge and the real attack will come from the likes of ASUS who soon be able to achieve the prices those wealthiest of poor nations can afford. And software piracy will take care of the rest, which ironically will result in firmly putting Microsoft in the dri

    36. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      Because not only is their number a fraction of those who contribute to FOSS, but the whole idea of closed source is an anathema to the supposed goals of such a project: education.

      You create a false dichotomy, closed source vs education. The barrier only exists in a small context which is people trying to learn about programming. Software is a tool, most people don't care about the code, they care about the interaction and results. Just as most programmers could care less about the process used to create computer chips, only a small minority of students are interested in digging around code.

      If you were discussing a project whose aim was to distribute as many variants of solitaire or "trainers" for commercial games as humanely possible throughout the world, or pointless "utilities", the situation would be different. That is where the vast bulk of "freeware" on Windows is. The rest of the "freeware" is in fact "adware" or "crippleware". Attempts at giving away the "first hit" in efforts to hook the user and make him pay for the "full version".

      You seem to think there are people who write Windows and people who write Linux applications, when many times those populations overlap. I will agree the signal-to-noise ratio of good and bad software for Windows is worse, but that's because it's the easiest platform to develop.

      As slaves of the US corporate "culture" you mean? Ever heard of "diversity"? Probably not.

      Yes, and diversity has it's problems. Or do you not remember the days when programs were written for DOS, Apple, XT, Tandy. There are pluses and minuses to having different operating systems roaming around. By installing the most popular OS doesn't mean you are locking out every other one. Those interested in something different can easily change.

      Getting wealthier at any cost is a very short-sighted way of thinking which has lead to untold disasters in the past. Also, it is the ultimate hubris and arrogance to think that everyone wants mini-Americas everywhere. This is the "thought" that drove the PNAC cabal with Bush in front to invade Iraq. Apparently there was an American, desperate to burst out of, in every Iraqi, or some such.

      There's a big difference between a military invasion, and putting a McDonald's in Russia where people in fact did line up to get little piece of America. Despotism comes in making a decree that only Linux can be used when people ask for XP because of your belief that open source is "better."

      But skipping the wider geo-political implications of the Microsoftization of the Universe, the main point of this discussion was that OLPC was supposed to be different, billed itself as being different and attracted supporters on the basis of being different. Remove that and the whole point of the OLPC project disappears. Any old "charity" can refurbish old laptops (most of which are way more powerful then the XO) and ship them bulk to the places you mentioned.

      The hardware is "different," a 6lb cheap plastic laptop with 2 hour battery life doesn't work in those areas. The hardware design is the breakthrough, the size, ruggedized design, and archetecture provides a far more survivable solution than refurbs.

      You mean the demand is still there, but from now on it will be only fulfilled in the easiest and most juicy (from the perspective of potential commercially strategic gains) areas. That means that the OPLC has lost its edge and the real attack will come from the likes of ASUS who soon be able to achieve the prices those wealthiest of poor nations can afford. And software piracy will take care of the rest, which ironically will result in firmly putting Microsoft in the driver's seat of their future.

      It's also possible XO approached the market from the wrong angle. As cellphone capabilities expand, that might in fact become the solution to the comp

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    37. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by westlake · · Score: 1
      In 1970 a 5 MB RKO drive was about $10,000. And guess what, Windows wasn't needed for the price drop.

      So you are saying it took ten years for the price of the 5 MB HDD to drop to $2000. Which is far from mass market pricing in 1980.

      Fast forward to 2001-2002:

      Midline is a 2 GHz P4 desktop with 512 MB MB of RAM, a 100 MB HDD and NVIDIA 4600 graphics. $1200 or thereabouts.

      In 2008 these are specs of a $1000 HP laptop from Walmart.com

      64 Bit Vista SP1 Premium
      AMD 64 bit Dual Core Turion CPU
      NVIDA GeForce Go DX9 Graphics
      17" wide-screen display
      4 GB RAM
      250 GB HDD
      LightScribe DVD Burner [burn your own labels]
      Integrated WiFi, Webcam, Etc., Etc.

      For $400 more you get the Intel Dual Core CPU, NViDIA 8600M 512 MB DX10 graphics, a 320 GB HDD and a Blue Ray Player/DVD burner with your 64 bit OS and 4GB RAM. HP 17" Pavilion Laptop.

      Oh, and did I forget to mention the bundled ATSC HDTV tuner card?

    38. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      You create a false dichotomy, closed source vs education. The barrier only exists in a small context which is people trying to learn about programming. Software is a tool, most people don't care about the code, they care about the interaction and results. Just as most programmers could care less about the process used to create computer chips, only a small minority of students are interested in digging around code.

      You are missing the point entirely. The issue is not "digging around code" by the kids (although that is a bonus) but maintainability. According to your own words you now expect piles of haphazard "freeware" to be used as the mainstay of the tools used on such laptops, with no system of assuring that these programs get updated, fixed or otherwise kept up. FOSS is the only remedy (other then fully commercial solutions) in any organized long-term educational effort. You are attempting to pretend that the pay-to-play system, as it functions in wealthy nations, will somehow be magically replicated via freeware with no side effects. In case of FOSS it is frequently the teachers who mess with the educational software (as much of it is intentionally written using simplistic scripting languages) and there is no risk of built-in obsolescence. Closed-source "Freeware" on the other hand is rather famous for being utterly crappy in this department and its life cycle is probably the shortest of all the types of software available.

      You seem to think there are people who write Windows and people who write Linux applications, when many times those populations overlap. I will agree the signal-to-noise ratio of good and bad software for Windows is worse, but that's because it's the easiest platform to develop.

      You seem to think that motivations and ideologies do not matter. Free Software is a magnet for people who are willing to contribute something to society but who are adamant that their contributions will not be simply re-packaged by some jackal and sold for profit. A vast majority of volunteers seems to share this outlook. That is why with the advent Free Software most people who would have otherwise created "freeware" for Windows have long since departed that realm for ideologically compatible ground: Linux. The pool of quality "freeware" Windows programmers is these days really, really shallow, despite of that platform's commercial popularity. "Adware", "Crippleware", "Malware" makers on the other hand are attracted primarily to Windows seeking to satisfy that which motivates them: need for profits.

      Yes, and diversity has it's problems. Or do you not remember the days when programs were written for DOS, Apple, XT, Tandy. There are pluses and minuses to having different operating systems roaming around. By installing the most popular OS doesn't mean you are locking out every other one. Those interested in something different can easily change.

      That just is not true. If the "most popular" system commands 20% of the marketplace, there is no problem. If it commands 95%, forcing 90% of all other software to be written for that platform and if that system is also a property of a singular US corporation, you not only got "a problem" it is a gigantic problem. Windows is single-handedly responsible of throwing the whole of the Computer Science back nearly by an entire generation. Technologies popular at the end of 1960s (like virtualization) are only now becoming available for the Wintel platform. That is 40 years later!

      Problems brought on by diversity are on a whole different scale from those brought by monopolistic mono-culture.

      There's a big difference between a military invasion, and putting a McDonald's in Russia where people in fact did line up to get little piece of America.

      Yes, right up until the true meaning of the IMF "reforms" hit them. I guarantee you the feeling is much different now after they have realized what McDonalds

    39. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      According to your own words you now expect piles of haphazard "freeware" to be used as the mainstay of the tools used on such laptops, with no system of assuring that these programs get updated, fixed or otherwise kept up.

      Why do applications need to be constantly updated and fixed? It's this same reinventing the wheel that convinces school districts to buy new revisions of textbooks. Also Windows freeware can in fact be open source, it's up to the author. You keep painting a picture of open source vs windows like the two things are completely opposed to each other. Again, for the most part the debate is moot because most teachers don't have the knowledge or will to dig around in code, and good closed source software encourages FOSS developers to make clones.

      Free Software is a magnet for people who are willing to contribute something to society but who are adamant that their contributions will not be simply re-packaged by some jackal and sold for profit. A vast majority of volunteers seems to share this outlook. That is why with the advent Free Software most people who would have otherwise created "freeware" for Windows have long since departed that realm for ideologically compatible ground: Linux. The pool of quality "freeware" Windows programmers is these days really, really shallow, despite of that platform's commercial popularity

      I disagree, often you will see projects for both Linux and Windows because developers just can't ignore the popularity of the Windows platform - Open Office, GIMP, Firefox, etc.

      If it commands 95%, forcing 90% of all other software to be written for that platform and if that system is also a property of a singular US corporation, you not only got "a problem" it is a gigantic problem. Windows is single-handedly responsible of throwing the whole of the Computer Science back nearly by an entire generation. Technologies popular at the end of 1960s (like virtualization) are only now becoming available for the Wintel platform. That is 40 years later!

      Technology advances faster than society. Windows may have slowed the adoption from a technical perspective, but it accelerated the adoption of computers socially. It's not like alternatives weren't offered like OS/2, it's just people want backwards compatibility and familiarity. Software is alone in that regard, BIOS is old and outdated, as is the x86 archetecture, but they work well enough, and it's more costly to change to something that is technically better

      As a matter of fact the opposite is happening: the OLPC users are in effect made to use Windows via a combination of actual corruption and influence peddling, plus the decidedly unhealthy effects of US corporate monopolies

      Or legitimate demand. There are also those governments who are demanding Linux because of National security and economic reasons. Ultimately it's up to the customer what they want - If XO would ONLY ship with Windows that's a problem, but supporting Windows just lends some freedom for customers to choose what they want.

      See under ASUS. And the "architecture" is woefully inadequate for a Windows-centric platform and will require a total redesign. We already discussed that.

      Inadequate for a typical Windows build, but much of the bloat can be trimmed down with a special platform specific build. It's not like XP is cutting edge, it's 7 years old; technology has moved a long way since then, where even stripped down hardware is extremely powerful relative to the hardware back then.

      Possibly, but then again you are right back to the whole problem of creation of educational software. Also cell phone platforms are traditionally the most locked down, byzantine to develop for and generally the crappiest possible choice for such a project. But then again there is the OpenMoko project ... so there are indeed possibilities here. Maybe

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    40. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      This is turning into an exchange of whole goddamn essays, for which I really have no time.

      Why do applications need to be constantly updated and fixed?

      Because they cease to interoperate correctly with the rest of the changing software ecosystem. If you manage to stop everyone from changing anything anywhere, and keep your hardware from failing, than you can keep all your software (assuming no crippling bugs are present) unchanged indefinitely. In real life this is an impossibility. This of course has been the engine behind the untold billions raked in by the software industry for dubious "upgrades" and, as such a defender of the Free Market Way, I would think you would be among its adoring cheerleaders. Creating "value" out of thin air and all that...

      Also Windows freeware can in fact be open source

      Which is a rarity.

      Again, for the most part the debate is moot because most teachers don't have the knowledge or will to dig around in code, and good closed source software encourages FOSS developers to make clones.

      Not for projects such as this u-turned OLPC. Ideological incompatibility.

      I disagree, often you will see projects for both Linux and Windows because developers just can't ignore the popularity of the Windows platform - Open Office, GIMP, Firefox, etc.

      You got a curious definition of "often". These are the few FOSS projects with either corporate sponsors interested in paying for expanding into Windows land, or projects with huge user bases, so huge that some their users who are forced (for whatever reasons) to use Windows have finally become so desperate as to do some porting. Statistically, these represent less then 10% of all FOSS projects, although their user base is large. If you take some list of Linux software, say the 60 thousand plus of Debian packages, you will find that less then 500 have Windows ports and these are usually cross-platform development libraries and the like. Part of the problem is of course that in order for FOSS to work on Windows, the developers must purchase both Windows and Visual Studio or some similar toolchain, which goes against of the whole idea of Free Software and is barely tolerated by many of the Open Source people (due to cost and other factors).

      Technology advances faster than society. Windows may have slowed the adoption from a technical perspective, but it accelerated the adoption of computers socially.

      You gotta be kidding. Microsoft had a strictly parasitic relationship with the adoption of computers socially. What made it possible was the advancement of micro-electronics, without which the whole point of a "personal computer" would be moot. Most, if not all, ideas employed in Microsoft software are (poor) re-implementations of what went on in Computer Science decades before. If it were not for the fatal error IBM has made in its deal with Microsoft, no one would have heard of Bill Gates today. Please stop with this insane attribution of wholly undeserved merits to Microsoft.

      It reminds of all these people who attempt to justify multi-billion salaries of CEOs by painting them as somehow "responsible" for advancement of technology or science, as if there are not thousands of equally (or more) talented people waiting to take their place should the "irreplaceable hero" get hit by the bus.

      ... it's just people want backwards compatibility and familiarity ...

      LOL. That's rich. OS/2 was doomed not because it was "not compatible" (IBM went to great pains to make sure it was - following which Microsoft changed their APIs to break that) or "familiar" (like Win 95 resembled Windows 3.1, or Win 3.1 resembled DOS, right? Right?) but because Microsoft engaged in this wee little plot involving taking all the PC manufacturers hostage, leaving IBM as the only seller of preloaded with it

    41. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      Because they cease to interoperate correctly with the rest of the changing software ecosystem. If you manage to stop everyone from changing anything anywhere, and keep your hardware from failing, than you can keep all your software (assuming no crippling bugs are present) unchanged indefinitely. In real life this is an impossibility.

      Why do you say it's impossible, that's the whole point behind backwards compatibility which is why we continue to use backwards technology developed decades ago. And if any piece of software is popular enough it will be cloned, emulated, or somehow still kept around. And with online capability more and more software is being deployed as an online service - plenty of web apps out there.

      Also Windows freeware can in fact be open source
      Which is a rarity.

      Go search through sourceforge, there's plenty of OS independent and Windows XP software on there.

      Part of the problem is of course that in order for FOSS to work on Windows, the developers must purchase both Windows and Visual Studio or some similar toolchain, which goes against of the whole idea of Free Software and is barely tolerated by many of the Open Source people (due to cost and other factors).

      No, there are plenty of free tools for programming windows in pretty much any language. Hardware is far more closed than software, yet you seem to dismiss that because the crusade against Microsoft.

      It reminds of all these people who attempt to justify multi-billion salaries of CEOs by painting them as somehow "responsible" for advancement of technology or science, as if there are not thousands of equally (or more) talented people waiting to take their place should the "irreplaceable hero" get hit by the bus.

      I agree, they earn millions because they do their job and make money for stockholders. Science and technology advancement has nothing to do with it.

      The XO will ship only with Windows. That is now a foregone conclusion. All the FOSS friendly people have already departed or were ejected out of the project.

      All the pure zealots may have taken their ball and gone home, those who actually care about providing software to children in developing nations are still working on the project. People are still working on Sugar, and developing Linux apps, as well as people working on XP apps.

      Err, what the fuck is the point then? "Scaled down" Windows is no longer Windows. The entire platform is revolving around the "experience" of Windows bloatware and the bloated OS itself! If you are going to "trim down" Windows, then you are no longer shipping what everyone on the planet is using but some sort of fake, crippled system ... which is very much along the lines of what this whole concept of OLPC-borne "crippleware" is all about.

      Windows is bloated because it throws everything and the kitchen sink in. When you have a fixed platform it's easy to strip things down, just as Microsoft stripped down Windows to work on the Xbox. Many do-it-yourself types have been running stripped down XP on EEE PC and other low cost ultra portables.

      Err... because no one will write free software for it (specially for the locked down cellphones with their NDAs, software certificates, download portals and what not).

      Yes nobody jailbreaks their iPhone, and those who don't want to get into that legal grey area have plenty of tools to develop for Symbian. Make a platform popular enough and people will develop for it.

      Dude, cell phones are the most nickle-and-dimed, ripoff platforms known to man. Essentially you are proposing the most efficient method of swift separation of whatever little money these people have and transferring that to cell-phone carriers, 10 cents a time. Use your head for once. Cell phone carriers and crack dealers have far t

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    42. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Why do you say it's impossible, that's the whole point behind backwards compatibility which is why we continue to use backwards technology developed decades ago. And if any piece of software is popular enough it will be cloned, emulated, or somehow still kept around. And with online capability more and more software is being deployed as an online service - plenty of web apps out there.

      Because that is how it is playing out in practice. Emulators have a lot of drawbacks and maintaining backwards compatibility with earlier, woefully flawed designs is only producing more problems: see also security situation under Windows.

      As to web apps, you are defeating your own arguments. The web browsers, their protocols and rendering schemes have changed many times in the period of the last 5 years alone. Most web apps developed just 5 years back would fail to run on today's editions of web browsers.

      Go search through sourceforge, there's plenty of OS independent and Windows XP software on there.

      Much of the "OS independent" stuff are scripts and the like, many of which require POSIX compliance levels not available under Windows (i.e. they require whole UNIX compatible environments of the likes of Cygwin - which is really defeating the whole point). Look, I have been doing FOSS for a very long time and I speak simply from experience as I was asked more then once to try to deploy some FOSS apps on Windows. Even the ones which claim to run on Windows, rarely do, as they are not actively maintained on that platform. It is just the way things are.

      No, there are plenty of free tools for programming windows in pretty much any language.

      All of which suffer from lack of integration with the platform. That is why most non-trivial project authors who are desperate for a Windows port use Microsoft's own tools.

      Hardware is far more closed than software, yet you seem to dismiss that because the crusade against Microsoft

      This is getting ludicrous. I will not rehash the whole sordid history of Microsoft's APIs and the rest of the crap that is going on in Windows. Go educate yourself.

      I agree, they earn millions because they do their job and make money for stockholders. Science and technology advancement has nothing to do with it.

      LOL. Your uncritical hero worship and wholesale swallowing of the propaganda is amusing. Most if not all of these companies wouldn't even notice if the CEO was hit by a bus and did not show up to work for years. As a matter of fact some of the most highly paid CEOs historically are the ones who presided over their company's collapse or a radical downsizing of revenues.

      All the pure zealots may have taken their ball and gone home, those who actually care about providing software to children in developing nations are still working on the project.

      You mean the ones on Microsoft's payroll? Some "caring".

      People are still working on Sugar, and developing Linux apps, as well as people working on XP apps.

      Sugar is for all intents and purposes dead as far as OLPC is concerned. The only apps that will be worked on are the XP ones and means of integration of commercial "adware" and "crippleware" into the XP image.

      When you have a fixed platform it's easy to strip things down, just as Microsoft stripped down Windows to work on the Xbox. Many do-it-yourself types have been running stripped down XP on EEE PC and other low cost ultra portables.

      Xbox is a single-purpose, single-class of applications running platform. It is worlds apart from what the supposed goals of the OLPC are. But then you are probably right, Microsoft has likely envisioned an "OLPC Xbox", full of commercial "crippleware" with a complete DRM lockdown and 100% of contents controlled by Microsoft a

    43. Re:Fool me once, shame on you by servognome · · Score: 1

      Because that is how it is playing out in practice. Emulators have a lot of drawbacks and maintaining backwards compatibility with earlier, woefully flawed designs is only producing more problems: see also security situation under Windows.

      Most free software isn't updated anyways, but it gets cloned. That's why theres hundreds of free word processing apps, rogue-like games, and education software. I've found it easier to write something that performs the same function from scratch than to try and go through somebody else's crappy code and fix it.

      All of which suffer from lack of integration with the platform. That is why most non-trivial project authors who are desperate for a Windows port use Microsoft's own tools.

      Define trivial. If I'm developing an extremely hardware intestive application then yes I might go with Microsoft's tools, but there are very few applications like that which need to be developed for education PCs.

      LOL. Your uncritical hero worship and wholesale swallowing of the propaganda is amusing. Most if not all of these companies wouldn't even notice if the CEO was hit by a bus and did not show up to work for years. As a matter of fact some of the most highly paid CEOs historically are the ones who presided over their company's collapse or a radical downsizing of revenues.

      Some of the most highly paid employees are the ones who sit around and don't do anything. Picking one or two examples doesn't dismiss that on the whole that CEO pay is closely tied to stock performance as demonstrated by salaries tracking the S&P 500. Why do you have such vitriol towards CEOs? Do you also hate people who work sitting at a computer all day instead of putting in "a good days work" out in the field breaking a sweat?

      You mean the ones on Microsoft's payroll? Some "caring".

      If somebody abandoned the project solely because they hated Microsoft, they are short-sided zealots. Get the computers in the hands of children, and develop things to help them no matter what the platform. It's like those governments that turn down food and medical aid because it's being delivered from the US.

      This is just too pathetic. So now your "ideal" "educational" platform for the kids throughout the world is a locked-down system which requires any member of the "unauthorized" hoi polloi to crack it (only to get locked down and or outright wiped out with the next patch - ala iPhone).

      I didn't say it's my ideal system, it's a realistic system.

      de-facto enslavement of these whom you supposedly wish to "help" to some multi-national corporate interests. Which pretty much ends all discussion on the subject.

      Why is it de-facto enslavement? Its a choice, continue on the current path, or accept a less than perfect means to accelerate development. Idealistic projects are great on paper, but are useless unless they materialize and get into the hands of people. Sometimes you have to deviate in the short term and find pragmatic solutions so that the ultimate vision can be realized.

      $0.10/min is a fortune in some of these places where $20 a month is a good salary. Again you are restricting the whole scope of this "help" to the most affluent. Which coupled with your Freudian slip above makes perfect sense. They are the most "ready" for being ripped off.

      I wouldn't call people who have no running water, poorly constructed homes built out of rubble, and limited electricity "affluent." Yet, people in those conditions can afford cellphones and use them as a primary means of communication. And this is the same audience that low cost PCs are targetted at.

      It was a typo, the peak of US family's purchasing power occurred in 1950s not 1920s.
      LOL. Yes, there were no other abundant opportunities in the 1950s. You are getting less credible by the

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  16. I'll change but..... by Hankapobe · · Score: 1
    I hate reading on a computer monitor. Somewhere it has been researched that reading slows down by 25% when it's read from a monitor. Now, when looking for cites, ("slower reading on computer monitor ") on Google, all I get is garbage. So, take my opinion for what it's worth.

    Gimme a book, baby! A printed, dead tree book! And when you geniuses figure out how to make a monitor that reads like a book, then I'll switch - cost is not a factor.

    1. Re:I'll change but..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      E-Paper has the characteristic you are describing. Currently there are a few technological barriers to overcome with it (such as so-so resolution, mediocre color capability, and slow refresh rates), but because it is a light-reflective technology rather than light-emmisive (that is, the display reflects light back at you, like most surfaces you might look at, rather than through a photon source within the screen itself), it is *FAR* easier on the eyes than a computer monitor. A high enough resolution e-paper display showing a picture of something would appear indistinguishable from either a photo or a painting of that thing. And the refresh rate isn't even a big deal for something like printed matter, where the information isn't changing that often anyways, so it's actually ideal for an ebook. What's really neat about it is that it doesn't actually consume any power to show an image... it only requires power to update the display to something new.

    2. Re:I'll change but..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .... and that's exactly what an e-book reader is. A screen that reflects light instead of emitting it. To your eyes no different then printed paper, only instead of using ink to change the color, they use a special substance that changes color after you apply an electric current. Getting full color is a bit tricky, but there are already readers out there that read like books.

  17. Negroponte announces that it will be $75. by erveek · · Score: 1

    So in the three years it takes to develop, the price will slowly rise to $300. And it will, of course, run Windows Vista.

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  18. This is all bullshit by gelfling · · Score: 0

    All this noise about cheap laptops. But they're not. Is anyone going to use an Asus eee for a general purpose device? No. It's a glorified web browser, PDA and possibly a big ass phone. In the meantime all the cheap laptops will disappear and become 'portable multimedia centers'

    I can still get a low and Thinkpad R61 or Lenovo N200 for $500 and for $200 more than that Asus piece of crap you get an actual laptop. Of course we'll never actually see a $200 laptop. Instead it will be a $200 MP3 player with a keyboard.

    1. Re:This is all bullshit by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      Is anyone going to use an Asus eee for a general purpose device?/I?

      I think about this myself, but I'm not sure I agree. While it is not an optimal computing platform, it is a usable one.

      When I started in computers, I hard to wirewrap my computer, solder the video connector, and connect it to my TV. I used it. It was usable. The EeePC is far better that my first computer.

  19. Get me one now by Amazing+Kevlar · · Score: 1

    Forget the kids. I've been waiting for this ever since it first showed up in 'The Mote in God's Eye' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Where the heck has the industry been on this one? Oh, right. They were in their Podzone.

    1. Re:Get me one now by Loko+Draucarn · · Score: 1

      Plus, with some well-designed software, it'd make a good Illustrated Primer for a Young Lady.

  20. right, so? by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Funny

    Negroponte said the foundation hopes that the cost of the new device, which is scheduled for production by 2010, can be kept to $75

    Is that 75 Real Dollars, or $75 Negroponte Distortion Field Dollars? And it'd be nice if the press actually took a stab at how realistic those "hopes" are- I mean, I hope that someday I'll shit strawberry-flavored lollipops while driving in my flying car, on autopilot while I bonk my supermodel wife...

    1. Re:right, so? by servognome · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Given how far the US dollar has slipped against other currencies $150 laptop would be close to a $100 laptop in 2000. Parts and labor in Asia is becoming more expensive when priced in US dollars.

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    2. Re:right, so? by ZarathustraDK · · Score: 1

      I mean, I hope that someday I'll shit strawberry-flavored lollipops while driving in my flying car, on autopilot while I bonk my supermodel wife... Individually they're cool, but HOPING to do any 2 out of the 3 simultaneously is either irresponsible or strange, let alone all 3 at the same time.
      --
      If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
    3. Re:right, so? by mikji · · Score: 0

      So you hope to shit and have sex, at the same time, in a car? To each his own...

    4. Re:right, so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...while playing Duke Nukem Forever!
  21. Makes sense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Finally. A hybrid e-paper and LCD tech design in the form of a book. I have been thinking about this for a while, and it just makes sense. For internet applications, use the LCD screen, while for extensive reading you would use the e-paper display. The best of both worlds.
    I am curious if Mr. Jobs is to plan such a device. Remove the keyboard from the MacBook Air, replace it with an e-paper display and make the LCD multiple touschreen sensitive. Some software on it for functionality like "dragging" the PDF file to the e-paper display, and we're set.

  22. WTF by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm just confused by this. My initial gut reaction is that Negroponte wants to completely scrap what came before, and put his own stamp on the project. But that makes no sense, because it was his project, and his stamp was on it already.

    They will be able to sell this new device for under $100, this time for sure. Okay, I'll agree that using standard DVD player screens might help. But why two screens then? Isn't the screen the most power-hungry part of the device? The OLPC screen has special power-management features; won't standard screens burn more power? And won't having two screens double the power?

    The article spoke of "dual touch screens". At first I thought this meant "multi-touch screens" but now I think it just means both screens will be touch screens. Even so, how do you make a standard DVD player screen into a touch screen?

    And once again. Why two screens? Yes, it looks more like a book. Big deal. This dual-screen design has a hinge! It's got to be easier and cheaper to make a slab tablet device, with maybe a hinged cover (note that a cover has no electrical connections and need not break a waterproof seal).

    So, no keyboard; just an onscreen virtual keyboard. I'm guessing no onboard camera, since none was mentioned and they are being aggressive about price. Not one word about openness of software stack... Negroponte just doesn't care anymore, I guess.

    The OLPC project hasn't just jumped the shark. They went out and found a new shark and they are jumping over it now.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:WTF by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      And once again. Why two screens?

      Just guessing, but here's how I'd do it: in "landscape" mode, the bottom touchscreen becomes your keyboard, and you have a laptop. In "portrait" mode, you have dual page view, great for reading reference or technical works - view cross-references on the two screens, or keep a diagram in the left screen while you read the text on the right screen.

      And in fact, I just went and looked at TFA, and there is a photo of the thing in "landscape" mode with the bottom screen a keyboard.

      So, if they do it right, this isn't dumbing down a laptop into an e-book, it's a laptop whose keyboard can go away to give you a second screen. Nice idea, though I'd have to wonder how much it sucks to type on.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    2. Re:WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will be able to sell this new device for under $100, this time for sure. Okay, I'll agree that using standard DVD player screens might help. But why two screens then? Isn't the screen the most power-hungry part of the device? The OLPC screen has special power-management features; won't standard screens burn more power? And won't having two screens double the power?


      For the OLPC, the backlights for the display is one of the biggest power consumers. Unbacklit, the thing consumes very little power. Done right with modern super-LEDs, it'd still be expensive on power budget but very doable.

      I don't find it hard to believe that they might accomplish this- but in the same vein, they promised this same sort of song and dance before, only to have them fall short of the promise; not because it wasn't technically possible, but from politics from what I can gather at this point with Sugar Labs spinning off, them putting XP in the mix to "make governments happy", and so forth.
    3. Re:WTF by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      touch screen part isnt that difficult, it's been done on the eee.

      I would think you could put an on screen keyboard or just transcribe handwriting on one screen while using the other as a monitor. actually theres quite a lot of configurations possible a couple of sd card slots and a usb or two and it becomes quite an interesting device,battery life is the killer thou. As a first world product and access to an electricity supply it could be popular.

      maybe if one side had solar cells it could be self charging to an extent.

        not quite sure its right for the olpc project thou.

    4. Re:WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even so, how do you make a standard DVD player screen into a touch screen? You add a five-wire resistive touchscreen membrane over the screen (which is transparent) and you plug it into the motherboard by some interface (usb would be sufficient). Such has been done to retrofit laptops like the EEE into touch models.

      As far as everything else you said, I'm pretty much in agreement.
    5. Re:WTF by Ugmo · · Score: 1

      I believe screen price is a function of screen size but 1/2 size screen is less than 1/2 the price.

      Two small screens with a total area of 8 sq units costs less than one larger screen of 8 sq units.

      Using a virtual keyboard you still get to input data so maybe the "book" is the form factor not the function. In other words, it is still a laptop that can run programs and edit code, its just shaped like a book. I hope this is true or they should change the name from OLPC (one laptop per child) to something else.

    6. Re:WTF by comm2k · · Score: 1

      The OLPC project hasn't just jumped the shark. They went out and found a new shark - with friggin' lasers mounted on it - and they are jumping over it now.

      Fixed.
    7. Re:WTF by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 1

      Even so, how do you make a standard DVD player screen into a touch screen?

      Most touchscreens are just normal displays with a transparent overlay added on top of them that provides the touch interpretation. It's as easy as putting a tablecloth on a table and taping it in place. (And quite easy to install them in the wrong orientation which is why we need xorg.conf options like SwapXY. :)

    8. Re:WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you guys not remember the Microsoft tech that was developed that let you control the screen by touching the one BEHIND IT, therefor not obscuring the screen?

      Negroponte was COMPLETELY pwn3d.

    9. Re:WTF by Farroos · · Score: 1

      how do you make a standard DVD player screen into a touch screen? By adding a cheap transparent touch-sensitive component on top of the screen.
    10. Re:WTF by idlemachine · · Score: 1

      I'm just confused by this. My initial gut reaction is that Negroponte wants to completely scrap what came before, and put his own stamp on the project. But that makes no sense, because it was his project, and his stamp was on it already. My take on this is with his recent decisions alienating the open software & open education crowds from which the OLPC project had been drawing support, his only option is to turn to the ebook crowd and try to drum up enthusiasm there.
    11. Re:WTF by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      My initial gut reaction is that Negroponte wants to completely scrap what came before, and put his own stamp on the project. But that makes no sense, because it was his project, and his stamp was on it already.

      Well, he created a new kind of computer that changed the entire market. The marked already absorbed XO, but now he thinks he can do something better, so why stop?

      They will be able to sell this new device for under $100, this time for sure.

      The way the Dollar is going, it may very well cost $1000 by 2010, and still be right at price.

  23. No more speciality displays? by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    I thought the current OLPC screens were special high DPI screens which were perfect for reading, as opposed to generic portable DVD screens?

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:No more speciality displays? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      I think they intend to use the current style of screens (from reading TFA), but that they expect the manufacturing tech that makes the cheap portable DVD player screens to lower the cost of those.

      There's plenty of equipment out there to work with 16:9 right now, and any special screen on a low-cost device is likely to be made on a tweaked version of existing equipment. It'd be silly to design a whole new manufacturing line from scratch if you don't have to do so.

  24. You expect people to read on that? by TibbonZero · · Score: 1

    Why after all this time can the current screens on the OLPCs not be made cheaper? In nearly 5 years the best they'll have improved on is lowering the price, and making it look worse and less functional? Surely they are trying to address some unique challenges, but this is horrid.

    The worst part however is that these screens simply suck! Think of the children! In 20 years we'll need One-Set-of-Glass-Per-Child (OSoGPC).

    --
    Tibbon
    tibbon.com
  25. Re:Obligatory MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the recent Micro$oft involvement in the OLPC project this question suddenly is relevant.

    I feel really sorry for all the good folk who helped the now-damned OLPC project in good faith only to see M$ subvert and destroy it by killing* Negroponte.

    *seducing to the dark side

  26. suggested read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    read High Tech Heretic by Clifford Stoll for a lot of great insight into the books vs computers debate for education

  27. Unrealistic cost by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    I think it's possible. You can get a portable DVD player for $80 retail. This thing has the same screen,
    This thing has two screens, one of which is touch sensitive. What existing low cost consumer product uses touch sensitve screens large enough to work as a keyboard? Plus, I rather doubt that resolution that would be acceptable for a DVD player would be acceptable for a computer (or a book reader), hence using LCDs designed for DVD players may not be viable.
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Unrealistic cost by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      My Nokia 770 has a touch screen keyboard with an 800x480 screen which I use as an ebook reader (amongst other things), and cost me $82, though admitedly it cost a lot more when first released.

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    2. Re:Unrealistic cost by jma05 · · Score: 1

      You might have been lucky to pay $82, but that is not the going price for a used 770. I am yet to see one on sale for double that.

  28. Re: OS - Nintendo has this covered by whtmarker · · Score: 1

    The Nintendo (DS) already has an operating system for dual screens. Negroponte will end up putting games on the ebook anyway because thats the only reason kids wanted the original OLPC.

  29. And they though PORN was an issue before... by hyperz69 · · Score: 1

    Now kids will be able to get Penthouse beamed directly to their mud huts!

    1. Re:And they though PORN was an issue before... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have national geographic to look at their boobies.

      I suppose turn about is fair play.

  30. OLPC has to change its name by whtmarker · · Score: 3, Funny

    OEBPC doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

    1. Re:OLPC has to change its name by andphi · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's the sound of the new and improved OLPC foundation blowing a raspberry in the face of logic and common sense.

  31. Goodbye old scam, hello new scam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As if there weren't enough proof that OLPC was a lie and a multi-billion dollar scam, now St. Nick is dropping the "Laptop" part of OLPC, and it will now be "One Poorly Designed DVD Player Without The DVD Drive Per Child".

    Way to go. It's "all about the kids", so long as the kids are being forced to use Teh Lunix and FOSS.

  32. speculation by alta · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Anyone care to speculate why waderoush would want to crash his own servers?

    Until I ad a few more servers to the farm, I wouldn't try direct linking from the front page of /.

    Currently I have 3MB fiber, 2 Opteron 2.0GHz with 4GB, both pointing to a 8 core xeon with 6 spindles and 8GB Ram... I was going to ask yall how long you think it could take the load, but there's a lot of difference between posting index.php and spacer.gif... So nevermind.

    --
    Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
  33. Mod Parent Troll by ubuwalker31 · · Score: 1

    While the Asus eeePC is not perfect, it certainly is a general purpose device. I can do almost anything on my $350 eeePC that I can do on my $1800 desktop.

    I bought it rather than a full notebook because it weighs two pounds (rather than 6 or 7) and is the size of a small book.

    I'm sorry that you didn't like yours, but it isn't meant as a desktop replacement.

  34. wait till you are asleep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the subliminal message 'MS is good' included?

  35. DSOrganize by tepples · · Score: 1

    This thing has two screens, one of which is touch sensitive. So does my $170 Nintendo DS Lite with R4 expansion card.

    What existing low cost consumer product uses touch sensitve screens large enough to work as a keyboard? The on-screen keyboard in DSOrganize 3.1129 seems to work fine.
  36. 3rd gen sub-$100 notebook? by zappepcs · · Score: 1

    With current market trends, I'm willing to bet it will be a combination palmtop with cheap phone service/data plan attached, and built in software for coupon shopping/bargain hunting with a fliptop compartment on the cover that contains makeup space and a mirror.

    I actually mean that semi-seriously

  37. It's NOT an eBook Reader! by argent · · Score: 1

    It's NOT an "eBook Reader", it's a laptop designed like scaled up Nintendo DS, a dual-screen clamshell. Calling it an "eBook Reader" is a travesty.

    1. Re:It's NOT an eBook Reader! by maxume · · Score: 1

      It's just ambiguity rearing its ugly head.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  38. How about spending some time on the education part by no_opinion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    New hardware is nice and all, but it's really of minor importance compared to the elements of the platform that should be there to help kids learn. I think there's a reason that the press never covers how fantastic and ground breaking the educational aspect is. The technology is interesting, but as far as I can tell, the educational aspect is an afterthought.

  39. 3rd edition will be a $100 bill by mistermark · · Score: 1

    ...and for $200 you can get into the buy-one-give-one program.

  40. Not an eBook Reader at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Despite all the knee-jerk reactions (including the author of the article) to this being a glorified e-Book... it is NOT. It is clearly much more than that

    It is a functional laptop in an eBook-like shell. Just look at the pictures. There is a pic of a kid holding the thing like a laptop with a virtual keyboard on the bottom display, and a game being played on the top display. This indicates that it has much more than eBook capabilities, and likely incorporates multi-touch capability.

  41. But will it run... by Tracy+Reed · · Score: 1

    ...Windows XP?

  42. I've lost confidence by MadUndergrad · · Score: 1

    It saddens me that my $200 is going to be going toward 67 Windows licenses instead of something useful. With this 2nd gen XO.... I don't know. The screen looks too small to do anything with, kids or no kids, and there's no way they're going to get cost and power consumption down while keeping decent performance. No idea what Negroponte is thinking. I love my XO-1 (typing on it right now, with Xubuntu), but I have no intention of supporting the project in the future if they bow down to the M$ tax.

    1. Re:I've lost confidence by jmorris42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > It saddens me that my $200 is going to be going toward 67 Windows licenses instead of something useful.

      The truly sad part is that it is just so obvious that the fix is in at OLPC. If it were true that they were having trouble getting acceptance because of Linux, and that a 'product' OS was needed to close deals, I can believe that part. The real world has idiots in it. But Steve offered em OS X for zero dollars and they refused on the ground it wasn't open source.

      And I remember the way they argued so irrationally when anyone suggested a non x86 CPU to lower power consumption when the ONLY reason to put an x86 in a machine like that was to keep the door open to Windows.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
  43. Brilliant! by TimboJones · · Score: 1

    We are well on the road to a Hitchhiker's Guide or a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer. This is absolutely the right direction for low-cost ubiquitous computing.

  44. You make my case by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Exactly it's not meant as a 'replacement' for anything. It's another gadget. You make my case.

    Now someone mod this troll above.

  45. Smart by Yurka · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, that's certainly a way to deal with all those XO keyboards falling apart - not having a keyboard at all.

    --
    I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
  46. Re:How about spending some time on the education p by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

    New hardware is nice and all, but it's really of minor importance compared to the elements of the platform that should be there to help kids learn. I think there's a reason that the press never covers how fantastic and ground breaking the educational aspect is. The technology is interesting, but as far as I can tell, the educational aspect is an afterthought. Well, they sure are getting an education in computer maintenance ;-)
    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  47. Buy this bridge for just 364.4 Smoots and one ear by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    If Negroponte had the integrity of ... of ... a Steve Ballmer, he wouldn't have talked about price. He would have made some mild self-deprecating joke about having been wrong before, and limited himself to giving reasons for price not being a problem, or price not being what OLPC was really about, or for it not costing more than the first-generation machine despite the fancier screen... and left it at that.

  48. Touchscreen E-book Reader: I has it by monopole · · Score: 1

    I modded my EEE with a touchscreen. It uses a DVD derived 800x480 display, so basically it's about what he's proposing. In the shade, it's fantastic, in the sun it sucks. Good, but pretty much trivial using relatively simple resources.

  49. potable water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they(poor people in Africa) need access to potable water. cheap computer ($100) is not really cheap for them.

  50. Wiki-TextBooks is an old idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    We had wiki text books when I was in school 20 years ago. Well, at least the text books I had were "edited" by the student that had them before me.

  51. Wrong direction by porneL · · Score: 1

    If then can get down dual-screen fancy touchscreen laptop down to $75, why not get 1st gen XO down to $20 instead?

    I think 3rd world governments would rather buy cheaper laptops than cooler ones.

  52. Stupid? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or is this so stupid as to being ridiculous?

    Last I checked the OLPC was all about providing a cheap alternative for kids growing up in undeveloped countries (or however you want to PC poor or 3rd world countries). The intent being to offer them some opportunities they might not have otherwise have had.

    An e-book reader?

    I will do one better. I will design and create a new exciting technology, that will last for hundreds of years, require no power or recharging, and is 100% recyclable.

    I call it a "Book"! Amazing!

    Seriously, if that is the issue, print some cheap books, and ship then over. Better yet look into the practices by the publishing companies which are brutal. Legislate some change there to help everyone, even domestically!

    Nobel Peace Prize here I come!

    1. Re:Stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The advantage of an ebook reader is that you could store dozens of bookshelves worth of books inside a single, hand-held unit, where paper books each have a physical space requirement that makes carrying too much information around with you at one time difficult.

  53. So what? by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 1

    As long as it can read every format I care about, I'd happily pay $200 for a dual-screen e-book reader that uses the XO-1's sunlight-readable display technology. (Very low power requirement, high res, and - unlike epaper - can be used in the dark.)

  54. Dead wrong by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 1

    but with the poor-quality screens found on low-end throw-away DVD players. You seriously do not want to be reading text on those screens.

    The system will employ the dual indoor-and-sunlight displays, which was pioneered by former OLPC CTO Mary Lou Jepsen. The monochrome mode is high resolution and much easier on the eyes the lousy DVD player screen on the Asus eee.

    Of course, this whole project could be vaporware.

  55. I'll buy one if... by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 0

    It also has Wi-fi and can browse the internet. ...The main problem with the e-book nature is in the licensing. Most ebook DRM protocols are Windows based or proprietary.

  56. Don't Panic by evilkasper · · Score: 1

    all it needs are nice friendly letters on the back that say "Don't panic"

  57. Bruce Perens vindicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Bruce Perens predicted this:

    The purpose of OLPC is not to give third world kids a laptop. It's to give them books. You see, those third world countries don't have an annual budget of $100/student to buy kids textbooks. So, OLPC is an efficient means to deliver e-texts to those kids. ... Microsoft will partner with textbook publishers to make free or low-cost but time-locked and otherwise DRM-encumbered electronic versions of their textbooks available on OLPC. People associated with the project denied it, now it looks certain he was right.
    1. Re:Bruce Perens vindicated by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      Too bad it doesn't actually make a good ebook reader... (The hardware's fine. It's the software: Whomever wrote it has obviously never tried to read an ebook before. Pages are 'book pages' (which are completely irrelevant), there is no ability to bookmark pages, no ability to return to where you left off after closing the program, and no support for any real ebook format with any following. (Text isn't really a 'ebook' format, and it's the closest they've got.))

      It's a shame, because the hardware would be a good ebook reader. But it's useless with the current software.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
  58. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  59. Revenge of the West by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am now firmly convinced that the OLPC is the West's retaliation for the Nigerian spam scam. We didn't start this battle with the African continent (ok, maybe we did) but, by god, we are going to finish it.

  60. Multi-touch on-screen keyboard by initialE · · Score: 1

    That's what I'm interested in. I can imagine a completely configurable keyboard, all the better to play games in. And when you need the extra screen space, you can make it go away. I've never seen anyone try to implement this on a keyboard and still expect to touch-type with it though, but I'm hoping that it's going to be a standard feature on new notebooks.

    --
    Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
  61. Gates by XB-70 · · Score: 1
    ..did this when he sold DOS/Win3.1 to IBM. Negroponte is now doing it with Hard(vapour)ware: building his 'empire' on the backs of give one, get one lemmings and what minions and plebes he has left. Is he going to use the same roll-out and support team that he used for the XO?

    Forget the fact that each third world country involved could have the ability to put an entire localized grade school to high school curriculum in each machine.

    XO's were/are interactive. Let's cripple them, install MS and give out empty readers to people with little or no connectivity!!

    --
    *** Don't be dull.***
  62. Another great idea from Mary Lou Jepsen by davide+marney · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ignore the slashdot headline. Read Mary Lou Jepsen's blog, http://www.pixelqi.com/ for the technical vision.

    Mary Lou's vision of the next generation of display technology is:

    - Daylight readable
    - Color
    - Fast enough for video
    - Embedded Wireless
    - Touchscreen
    - Embedded solid-state storage
    - Extremely low power (1 watt)
    - Embedded battery
    - Battery life measured in days, not hours
    - Embedded processor

    Mary Lou's point is that with a machine like this, who needs a heavy-weight OS? Just about everything one needs on the OS side would already be in the hardware.

    These are clearly the ideas behind what Nicholas is describing.

    --
    "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
  63. who is he going to get in bed with now? by nguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, after he sold OLPC 1.0 to Microsoft, how can he trump that for OLPC 2.0? Easy: sell out to Amazon. The device may be $75, but the DRM will be priceless. Instead of running Sugar on Linux, it sounds like it may run Amazon's reader on WinCE.

    Seriously, Mr. Negroponte, make up your mind what you want people to volunteer for. An eBook reader? A constructionist learning device? A low-cost laptop to sell stripped down Windows versions to the developing world? When you figure it out, maybe the volunteers will come back.

    But don't bet on it.

  64. barking up the wrong tree by nguy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nice theory. Except: the professors assigning the textbooks aren't usually the ones making the money from them.

    Like it or not, good textbooks cost a lot of money because few people can write them and students are willing and able to pay those prices.

    Why are few people able to write them? Because tenure committees and university boards demand publications and grant money and that's what professors have to spend their time on. Writing a textbook is a career limiting move, and professors simply don't have the time to create their own teaching materials from scratch, given all the other obligations imposed on them.

    If you don't like that, go to a teaching oriented school, and/or complain to your university and state legislators that they should set different priorities.

  65. Re:You make my case by ubuwalker31 · · Score: 1

    Wrong. What the EeePC replaces is the need to carry around a 6 pound notebook computer. It is a "notebook replacement" rather than a "desktop replacement". So, if you need a big screen to do your work properly, or access CDs/DVDs/Floppys or run a MythTV box, or if you have big thick fingers, or have trouble seeing small print, the Eee is not going to cut it. It is a small sub-notebook with only a few ports, speakers, microphone, and a webcam and almost no peripherals and low processing power. It is not a perfect solution...but it is not just a gadget...it is a general purpose device that made a few sacrifices for weight and size.

  66. Touchscreens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not an ebook. The keyboard was replaced by touchscreens. Does it support multi-touch? Anyway it looks great, and less movable parts less trouble.

  67. Game Changer -- in Bizarro World by BookRead · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Working for a textbook publisher I can say that no one is currently worried about eBook options for textbooks (although I've been trying to tell them it's coming). OLPC seemed to me to be a potential game changer for education but I think it's lost its way. Falling into the MS reality distortion field was the first mistake. I think the proposed form factor is interesting but I think the hardware target is lame and uninspired.

    The big problem is that they leave out the content. Creating textbook content is key and requires a serious investment to match the curriculums. Yes, textbooks are expensive (and profitable), but much of the cost is in creating the content and customizing the content for each school. The problems with eBooks isn't the hardware it's having enough content. Amazon is semi-close with Kindle. Reading for pleasure will likely never happen with eBooks but it could work for education with enough of a commitment.

    Negroponte's close but, as usual, the Media Lab orientation is light on content and high on concept.

  68. Re:Chair! by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1


    So you work for Yahoo and Steve Ballmer made an offer?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  69. Text books are not lucrative enough by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1

    That's why there are still 10-20 year old texts on the market. It's a chicken and egg problem: schools don't have the budget to spend so nobody writes new books so there is nothing worth buying so the schools don't budget for new books.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  70. Bye Bye Books... I think not by Theoboley · · Score: 0

    You're always going to have some kid who doesn't read well off of a computer screen compared to a paper copy. I for one, am one of those. There are so many other things i could be doing on a PC and call it ADHD or whatever, but i just can't focus when on a PC and trying to read something. Books are always going to be published, Kids will read them.

    --
    Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
  71. The best part... by Benanov · · Score: 1

    I suspect that the ebook readers will support DRM, so that the current industry of textbook makers will be appeased enough to produce books for this thing.

    If I'm correct, it's just one closer step towards Stallman's right-to-read fiction. While it's fiction, it's still possible...and scary.

    The XO has a quite sufficient PDF reader. It's not perfect (it gets a little chokey on big files) but it handles most files perfectly well.

    I don't have DRM-infected files.

  72. And for $50 by nexttech · · Score: 1

    Let me see if I have this straight. OLPC could not get under $200 for a single display. So they will now have 2 displays and it will only cost $75. From the prices I have seen it seems like the displays are the most expensive part of a laptop. Using these figure I'm guessing that $50 should give me a holographic display but I could be smoking the same dope Negroponte.

  73. But can you trust him? by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Remember that this is the guy who sold the world the XO under the promise that is would be open educational software...and then reneged and went to a cut down version of MSWind.

    I, personally, see no reason to trust his assertions. He might mean what he says ... but I don't trust him enough to even read the details of what he's promising.

    I would not pay money for his promise. I would not build plans around his promise. AFTER he starts selling his device, I'd consider whether it offered something that I needed, and whether it could be maintained if (after) he defaulted on service. If not, I wouldn't do business with him. If so, he could get in line with everyone else. I trusted his promises and intentions once.

    Every one deserves one chance if the cost isn't too high. (An overstatement, but it's the simple way to say it.) They don't deserve two. The second chance only comes if you've repented your errors from the first time, and he hasn't. Even then it's a harder sell than the first time.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  74. opportunity by zogger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the entire project needs to be forked away from laptop.org, both hardware and software. Then it could just be an "anyone who wants one" little machine, like through a co-op for bulk hardware purchases. Most of the design specs are available and near as I can see the really expensive bits involve the display. which might be fixable. It needs to be reintroduced with the original idea of onboard power generation (or at least a foot pedal), and just use a low bloat normal linux distro for the software and dump sugar as reinventing the wheel..

  75. That's okay... by SteveFoerster · · Score: 1

    Until they come out with an ebook reader that has a full color, 200+dpi (reflective, not emmissive) display that itself is letter-size or larger (or perhaps a tabloid-sized dual screen display that folds in half a little like opening a book), I'm just not interested.

    That's okay; you weren't the target market anyway.

    --
    Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
  76. I see where this is going by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3rd Gen OLPC - Windows Zune Video Player preloaded with Barney & Friends

  77. OLPC Project derailed? by kandresen · · Score: 1

    In March and April Ivan Krstic and Walder Bender, two of the most famous technologists of the project left the project, with the following feedback to the community: Maintaining Clarity: http://radian.org/notebook/maintaining-clarity and Where is Walter: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-April/012986.html

    May 13th, Ivan Krstic, the man behind the security system in the XO-machine wrote a much harder critic ( http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-gloria-laptopi ) against the OLPC project talking about the recent complete change in direction the company has taken, taking orders without knowing how to ensure the 700.000 machines actually end up where intended as orders are often taken to places where even no postal services go?

    - Is it true that "learning" never was part of OLPC's mission?
    - Are OLPC simply accepting orders without knowing how to deliver?
    - Are the machines ending up in the right hands?
    - How is theft and corruption prevented?
    - Does the project really need to link the interface to the underlying OS?

  78. Re:Byes founding fathers are dead, its d bye books by westlake · · Score: 1
    It's a wonder that the US Government just doesn't hire a few people to write some textbooks that they would use in their schools.
    For gradeschool and even highschool, the material is simple enough that it wouldn't take that much to get the job done

    Only a geek could be so naive - or forgetful:

    Its founding fathers are dead, its disciples scattered, its millions long spent. Yet countless Americans still carry the revolutionary message of new math in their memories, if not always close to their hearts.
    Before the results could even be measured, new math became a near religion, complete with its own high priests and heresies.
    Where did new math go? And what happened to all those schoolchildren ready to experience, as one writer called it, "the wonder of why"?
    Whatever Happened To New Math

    The public school curricula is under perpetual assault from all sides.

    No subject - and no method of teaching - is ever free of controversy. That is the reason why the third world education minister shies away from projects as ideologically freighted as the OLPC.

    That is why your local school board doesn't want its choice of textbooks dictated by Washington.

  79. Textbook costs by supercrisp · · Score: 1

    I can't speak to the sciences too well, but in literature, the main costs for textbooks are copyright fees, printing, and publisher profits. That's why it's hard to get textbooks with lots of contemporary literature and why textbooks with poems tend to only have short poems--Walt Whitman being represented by a dozen-line poem, for example.

    In the sciences, I do know that the actual cost of the book's printing is significant because they tend to use a four-color process, and that's pretty expensive. It's actually amazing to me that you can get a thousand page biology text book in color for less than a $100, especially when a thousand page black and white literature text with no current copyrights applying costs $175 (I'm thinking of the Emily Dickinson variorum from Harvard UP.).

    The one person I knew at my last university, a Big 10 research school, who edited a literature text did it not for money but for publication credit. When I've submitted editing work for a textbook, I got $0 compensation. My compensation was my name in the fine-print acknowledgements page, which increases my chances of getting a decent-paying job by 0.005% or so.

  80. Amen! by supercrisp · · Score: 1

    Teaching gets a lot of lip-service from politicians, but when you freeze raises and hiring, you end up with teachers teaching 130 students per semester, and then it's really hard to make sure all the noses are on the right grindstones, much less to assign challenging work (which is challenging to grade).

    Other factors apply too: I ended up with one class this semester in which I couldn't even fit in the room with my students. I taught my first few meetings from a chair in the doorway, until two students dropped and freed up the "teacher's" desk for my narrow ass. Last semester I taught in a building slated for demolition and so old that I had to stand perfectly still when lecturing, or students couldn't hear me for the floorboards creaking. I'm not kidding; that was the damndest thing I'd encountered on a campus.

    Even small issues like photocopying have become an issue. I can't make a lot of instructional handouts because I'm not allowed sufficient copies on the departmental photocopier.

    Ugh. I could go on. No raise for me this year, even though I got "excellent" on my student and peer evaluations. There's a pay freeze, so I need to keep figuring out how to live bringing home two grand a month with student loan payments beginning. Frankly, I don't know how I'm going to do it.

  81. new format gizmo by EarlGreyIII · · Score: 1

    Seems to be a lot of comments about what this thing isn't. How about a discussion of what it is? Its a brand new format device, toy, whatever. On the plus side from a kids point of view, isnt it cool that you can play with it with your friend at the same time rather than just sit in front of it on your own? Form a grown up point of view, can I have one with wifi and bluetooth, so I can then read slashdot on the bus in full format, then connect my bluetooth mouse and keyboard once I arrive at the office and have to type in some reminders for my shopping list?

    1. Re:new format gizmo by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      'cept that you shouldn't need to connect a bluetooth mouse or keyboard --- just add in handwriting recognition, or at least the ability to make annotations / scribble on a page.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  82. University on a chip? by donak · · Score: 1

    I remember reading a novel by Harry Harrison in the "Stainless Steel Rat" series, in which he described "collectors of universities" who had entire libraries of universities on chip. The more (and most unusual) chips you had, the better a collector you could "preen yourself" to be.

    If the new OLPC is going to be a DVD player, or an E-Book reader, or some combination of all of those and the original OLPC (yes, I have read many of the earlier posts)
    why not add a large collection of text books and general reading - built in.

    Maybe a standard portable DVD / BlueRay player with a BlueRay disc (or collection of discs) in a box, or in a "multi-disc stack" drive would mean getting a whole lot of info out there, and at a cheaper price.
    How big a solid state drive can you fit in it, and how much info can you cram in the drive?

    Never mind connectivity, put lots of structured information in their hands, and minds. If they can also be creative, so much the better. But "INPUT!" as Number 5 said.

    --
    Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post ...
  83. Tactile Feedback; Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Regarding the lack of tactile feedback, you make an excellent point. Luckily, there's been some innovation in that area. Immersion makes a touchscreen that vibrates vertically when one touches "buttons". Apparently, to the user, it feels like tactile feedback. Adapting such a technology would go a long way towards the more widespread adoption of touchscreens (which, even you will probably admit, are more useful than touch-less screens).

    Regarding Sugar, on the other hand, you are dead wrong. The Desktop Metaphor is an ugly relic of the Xerox offices of the 70s. Subjecting millions of third-world children to "desktops" and WIMPs would be nightmarish, especially when there is a better alternative. It is so incredibly inhumane that I don't even know where to begin listing arguments and references against it. So, I'll give you just two. First, everyone should read The Humane Interface . Seriously. Second, read the Sugar Human Interface Guidelines, to see all the reasoning behind it. After that, come back if you still want to subjects these people to "grown-up" interfaces.

  84. Re:You make my case by gelfling · · Score: 1

    My laptop weighs maybe a shade over 5 lbs. It has a 15.4" screen, 2GB ram, 120GB drive, dual core Intel. It runs about 4-5hrs on a new battery. I think the extra 2.5lbs is worth it. Maybe not to you but to me it is.

    It's a T61 Thinkpad and maybe it costs $740.