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Johnson & Johnson Loses Major Trademark Lawsuit
Dekortage writes "As previously discussed here, the health-products giant Johnson & Johnson sued the American Red Cross over use of the ubiquitous 'red cross' logo. J&J has now lost. The presiding judge said Johnson & Johnson's claim against the organization was doubtful because the manufacturer entered into a brand-sharing promotional agreement with the American Red Cross in 1986 — not to mention that the two organizations agreed to share the logo way back in 1895. Sounds like J&J may need to crack open some Tylenol and Band-Aids."
...check if they have a clue about public relations and brand image. I mean, did they consider at all that people might start to see J&J as "the assholes who bullied the Red Cross?"
Circumcision is child abuse.
Would America get the Red Crescent? Or maybe the Red Star?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
When I think of a red cross, I immediately think of emergency relief, supplies, etc. I don't think of household products. What did Johnson & Johnson see in trying to seize (what I feel is) a pretty well established brand with a certain set of qualities (such as disaster aid)?
For some of us, particularly those of us who have been or are in the military, or the medical field, or first responders, the red cross means, in general, not a particular branding, nor the United States Red Cross nor the Red Cross International -- it means that in an emergency, when lives are on the line and blood and pain are at hand, that there is help. It's a beacon in the darkness that there is still hope.
That's what this is about. J&J tried to take that away. The Red Cross is an internationally agreed upon and (near, if not completely) a universally recognised sign that shouts, "Medical Care! MEDICAL CARE HERE!" Ask any random hundred or thousand people off the street what they think when they see a Red Cross on a White Field. I seriously doubt that Johnson and Johnson will be near the top of the list.
What J&J have done here that is so reprehensible is attempted to dilute that already prolific sign of medical care and hope, to commercialise what others already had a far better claim to. Shame on them, sirs. Shame and disgrace.
They might as well attempt to sue the Catholic Church for being (one of the two) oldest branches of Christianity over trademarks over Santa Claus. It would be exactly as nonsensical.
Signed,
Irate Med Student.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/05/16/american-red-cross-defeats-johnson-johnson-in-trademark-spat/?mod=WSJBlog
I'm presuming the court made the appropriate decision here, but it sounds as if the story's more complicated than a bunch of crazy lawyers filing a ridiculous lawsuit. The problem that Johnson & Johnson had was that the Red Cross had (apparently) started to commercially license its symbol to businesses that were probably in direct competition with J&J, and this would have been unforseen in the past when J&J probably saw and treated the Red Cross as a completely non-commercial organisation, with largely uncommercial products, and where any place it used the logo were at best for fundraising.
If it suddenly starts licensing its logo, though, then other companies can start using it to promote their own commercial products in the same domain as Johnson & Johnson in a way that could potentially confuse customers. In other words, any business that wants to start leeching from Johnson & Johnson's pre-existing brand recognition and loyalty might be able to throw a comparably cheap donation towards the Red Cross as a licensing fee, without having to negotiate at all with J&J, and make their commercial packaging potentially confusing with Johnson & Johnson's. This could be a real problem for J&J in the case of competitors who want to get their products shelved right next to it in supermarkets, for instance. Apart from the licensing fee, the Red Cross isn't even benefiting anywhere near as much as J&J might be losing.
I think the lawyers probably wanted to prevent the Red Cross from being able to give other businesses what could be a huge commercial advantage and steal its own good will, when under normal circumstances this would all be prevented by trademark law. Sure, J&J has probably benefited a lot from having a logo that looks like the Red Cross, but it sounds as if they've at least had it for as long as the Red Cross has.
Ah. Thanks for clearing that up. Though sometimes, it's just easier to blame lawyers for everything ;)
Seems to me they've been using the red cross for quite a while, too.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
" Mr. Monseau (Johnson & Johnson spokesperson) added, "The company does remain committed to the longstanding mission of the Red Cross to provide relief services." "
It's pretty cold for a company to claim it supports T.R.C.'s humanitarian cause, while suing them.
Every once in a while, the douchebags who spend their lives making the rest of us miserable get a well-deserved kick in the crotch. This is one of those times.
The only other occasion I can think of off the top of my head where something like this happened is when the World Wrestling Federation tried to lawyer the (much older) World Wildlife Fund out of its right to use "WWF". What is it they call the giant men who grope each other these days? I can't recall, but it certainly doesn't have an "F" at the end of it.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I'm glad this one got thrown out. How these companies keep getting away with trying to trademark common words or symbols is beyond me. And this one wasn't even as bad as the crap that Monster Cables keeps trying to pull. I mean, seriously, who would ever think that Monster Cable had anything to do with Fenway Park's Green Monster, the 1985 Chicago Bears, or Monster Energy Drink? Did they invent the word Monster? Should they sue the tabloids for calling child molesters monsters? I mean, hell, even Triple H has brought litigation against rapper The Game. Companies get away with this crap because 90% of the people they sue would rather settle out of court. But enough is enough. Judges need to start throwing that crap out.
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IANALB it seems obvious that a red cross is too generic a mark for trademark purposes. This is an old symbol and is a poor choice for use as a trademark for commercial purposes, anyway. Apparently, it took an act of congress to make this "red cross" a mark protected under the law.
Now as a consumer of band-aids I have a confession to make: I think I've always subliminally associated the product with the Red Cross. So from my viewpoint, it could be argued that it is J&J that has been infringing on the American Red Cross's mark.
-- IANALB: IANAL but..
Hey man, no matter the outcome of this retarded Corp-Fight, my FLAs are still going to have big fat red crosses on big fat white backgrounds on them, and the Soldiers who need medical care will always know where to come.
Your argument that this retarded conflict between two Companies might somehow negatively affect American Soldiers and prevent them from obtaining needed medical care is absurd. Let those two fight it out. F your "sacred symbology" tirade. Nobody who's getting shot at, and shot, gives one shit about it.
Maybe this will sound jacked up, but I was hoping that J&J would win this case. Considering that both companies have been around for near equal amounts of time (one commercial and one non-commercial) for the Red Cross to decide they now want to licence their trademark like a commercial entity, validates J&J's point of view. J&J wasn't asking for the Red Cross to not use the "red cross", they just wanted them not to be able to licence it out (since it would reduce the value of their trademark), and in that case J&J is right.
Perhaps the ARC should have considered this application when negotiating in 1895 or so... or at the least recompense J&J for the dilution of their brand.
Regards,
MBC1977,
How do you trademark a symbol that has been worn by millions of medics around the world for decades, maybe even centuries?
AFAIK the Swiss have now passed laws to regulate the use of probably the world's best known trademark.
Maybe they'll go after J&J now? Could be fun..
Insert
... it seems that J&J was miffed that the Red Cross was licensing the logo to other commercial partners, "such as Target" ...
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/05/16/american-red-cross-defeats-johnson-johnson-in-trademark-spat/?mod=WSJBlog
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Ralph Lauren actually sued the US Polo Association. In a victory for common sense, Ralph Lauren lost.
The next case could be the T-Mobile claim of the color magenta for their logo and ads. Several print shops in Europe got a letter from T-Mobile to end the use of magenta in their logos. CMYK is the basic hue set in the printing industry so the use of that set of colors in print shop logos is common.
http://www.freemagenta.nl/
Ernst
I guess if J&J had won, there would have been some Germans that would have their war crime convictions overturned (at least, the family name) because the red cross would have just been another merchant ship. That would have been fine.
.
The fact that it was a cross has nothing to do with religion (at least, not directly) and everything to do with Switzerland.
Are you joking? Of course, it does. The cross in the Swiss flag represents the Christian cross, and the people who picked it in 1863 were fully aware of that. The fact that the Red Cross not only added the Red Crescent as a symbol, but also in 2007 added the non-religions Red Crystal, shows that this is widely recognized to this day.
Personally, I wish they would make the Red Crystal standard and get rid of the two other symbols; retaining religious symbols in aid organizations perpetuates the misconception that religions have something to do with altruism.
...and this is what J&J was contesting. J&J was more than happy to let the symbol be used for NON-PROFIT purposes, but the ARC has been using it to make money off of it, and PROHIBITING its use by other organizations!
I know it's easy to flame the big corporation (and I hate big corps more than the average slashdotter, as I've been working in such for many years before I redeemed my freedom), but in this particular case it's the ARC that's abusing a symbol that should be free of commercial ties. J&J let the ARC use it, but when the ARC started "subletting" it to make money, J&J had a problem with that.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
That says a lot.
Apparently you have not bothered to check up on the actual story. A link was provided.
What angered J&J was the decision of the American Red Cross to license the symbol to other companies for use, in return for a small donation, on the packaging of toenail clippers and tooth brushes, among other things.
The judge apparently feels that this is a legitimate fund raising activity, which may very well be a valid point of law. He also feels that the 19th century agreement between J&J and the ARC governing the use of the red cross symbol is overridden by the charter Congress gave to the ARC, which gives it full control over the use the red cross symbol. That too, may be a legitimate point.
However, if the morals of "commercializing" the Red Cross are what you take issue with, rather than the legal framework, I don't see how J&J can be claimed to the be more at fault than the ARC itself.
For the debate is not about the ARC asking J&J to stop the commercial use of the red cross, something which they have done for over a century. (That, I think, would have been a sensible option.) And certainly not about J&J asking the ARC to stop the non-commercial use of the red cross; that would be patently absurd. It's about the ARC expanding the commercial use of the symbol. Surely, if its commercial use is a bad idea, then the ARC's decision is hardly wise? Toenail clippers are rarely a matter of life and death.
As for the sensitivity of J&J on the issue, I think their concern about trademark confusion is unrealistic but genuine. J&J's brand name is one of the most valuable on the market, and it is understandable that they are jealously protective of it. Whether this was a smart approach is something different.
True. And the very common "fear of someone ELSE making money", whether you were going to do the work to make the money or not.
Yes, I like the outcome, but the reasoning is terrifyingly stupid. If you win by chance, you will eventually lose.
religions do have something to do with altruism.
Almost all religions mention altruism as a positive trait, and some even do something about it.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
The power of christ compels you - - - to kill !!
Lawsuits typically start the same way wars do -- over someone's ego... and empire construction doesn't help matters. Ego usually blinds organizations long enough for ink to dry on any questionable document.
The more mud that is slung, the harder it is to see who is really dirty!
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Let me make an analogy. Suppose that you are a restaurant occupying and operating in a building called The Slashdot House. You are a for-profit business. Now, for a century or so, you have had an amicable relationship with a non-profit soup kitchen which also operates out of the same building and using the same kitchen. The two of you are not in competition, since you are a for-profit business and they are a non-profit.
Now suppose you find out that the non-profit is suddenly selling meals, in violation of your previous peaceful agreement. Before, there was no chance that a reasonable person would get a meal at the soup kitchen and think that they were dealing with your restaurant. Now, the non-profit is telling people "Come to The Slashdot House and get nutritious healthy meals for affordable prices!" which is exactly what you've been advertising. When you protest that the agreement between you clearly held that they would not do commercial business and therefore not threaten your commercial business, they smirk and say "Guess again, the agreement only says we won't do commercial business for profit. Since we're not expecting to turn a profit, we can compete for your market all we want -- and if you take us to court, we'll smear you in the media as the nasty nasty profiteering people who tried to bully a saintly non-profit."
That's what happened here. The Red Cross was the one that made the decision to disturb the existing customary arrangement. Under that agreement, the Red Cross was using the red cross symbol as a logo, but only Johnson & Johnson were using it as a trademark (literally "mark of trade", remember: the symbol which identifies who it is that is taking responsibility for the product or service.) Then the Red Cross decided "hey, it's perfectly fine for us to start putting this logo on commercial products that compete with Johnson & Johnson who are already using this symbol in the trademark space! Even though our partners are certainly for-profit businesses, we're non-profit!" And believe me, when they started this lawsuit, the Red Cross's justification in the press was not "the Congressional charter granted us shortly before the end of the 19th century permitted us to use this logo for commercial purposes" or "in 1986 Johnson & Johnson entered into a promotional agreement with the Red Cross in which coupons from J&J products could be redeemed for donations to the Red Cross". It was "Bwaaaaaaaaaaah, look at dat nasty, nasty big commercial cowpowation! Dey picking on us widdle, widdle Wed Cross! They big! Us widdle! Don't you agwee that regardless of whatever the actual facts of the case are, dey must be da big, mean buwwies?"
Searching on Google for red crystal[1] comes up with a World of Warcraft quest as the first result. The Red Cross is the second result found.
I just found that amusing. That and I think the "red crystal" symbol is both a horrible name and somewhat ugly. (It's essentially a red square tilted 45 degrees.)
[1] Originally I wrote "Googling for red crystal" but seeing as this is a story about a trademark dispute, I decided to be kind a respect Google's trademark.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
What J&J should have done is offer to make the overlapping products and then cut ARC in on the profits (and or given a few truckloads of said products to the ARC)
Note to the Corps DO NOT SUE OVER WHAT YOU DO NOT OWN
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Considering the crack open comment I think the company should use their own K-Y product instead of the "Tylenol and Band-Aids" suggested in the summary...
That's why there are church funded hospitals and orphanages?
Not everything is wrong with religions, whatever you say.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Thanks J&J, we will remember that.
You have truly gained Brand Recognition by this action.
Moses, despite being born a member of a tribe that was enslaved, was a member of the Egyptian Royal household and had a cushy job until he decided to give it all up and free the slaves and run away. Never made it all the way to the promised land either.
Abraham was a high end sheik in the Tigris valley before he packed up his entire household and wandered off to a new spot in the middle of a desert area.
The only odd one out of the bunch you mentioned was Jesus and that was because he and the Father chose to place him in a low place. The Messiah was expected to be a king and leader, not a humble carpenter from a small village. It was needed to show the Jews their ideas were wrong.
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