Slashdot Mirror


Confessions of a Wi-Fi Thief

Michelle Shildkret from Time wrote in to tell us about a story about "the ethics of stealing Wi-Fi. Many of us been guilty of the same crime at one point or another — according to the article, 53% of us at least. But how guilty do we really feel? As it is officially a crime to steal wi-fi (Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47 of the United States Code, which covers anybody who 'intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access')."

115 of 849 comments (clear)

  1. Not a thief by xtracto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access")."

    Then, I have never stolen WiFi. I have never accessed without authorization; as I have never cracked a WEP or WPA password scheme.

    Everytime I use an available wireless network, I instruct my computer to ask for permission to connect to the router and enter to the wireless network. And most of the time the router gives me such permit and assigns my router an IP. When it does not happen, then I assume the owner has instructed the router to give permission to specific machines (as in, machines with a specific MAC adddress) and hence I do not use such networks.

    Seriously, someone must create an interface in which a person is able to send the commands manually to the router (like the AT commants in a modem) to ask for connection permission (i.e., DHCP protocol). That way, when you are in court, you could use that program along the court's wifi to show them how you are indeed asking for permission and the software is granting you the permission.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    1. Re:Not a thief by Rinisari · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly the defense that anyone would should use. If the plaintiff says, "Well, I didn't explicitly grant you permission to use my network," then you can fire back, "You did when your router gave me explicit permission by assigning me an IP address and giving me a gateway by which I could access the Internet. Essentially, I asked if I could use the network, and, acting on your behalf since you set it up, it said I could when it gave me the information required to use the network."

    2. Re:Not a thief by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then, I have never stolen WiFi. I have never accessed without authorization; as I have never cracked a WEP or WPA password scheme. That's the key to the whole debate. I've had a WiFi router at my home and various offices for years. If I enable features designed to limit access (MAC address checking, WEP/WPA encryption, etc) and someone tries to spoof and/or brute force their way into my network, that's theft of service and unauthorized access. If my router is set up for wide open access, I'm granting permission for anyone to use it.

      In general, laws are designed to work like this: that which is not expressly forbidden is permitted. We're talking about radio waves here; before anyone starts up with some dumb analogy to parked cars and leaving the keys in them, consider this: when you use a resource I have made freely available, you're not denying me access to it. Someone might make the argument that excessive use of my resource would degrade its usefulness to the primary (owning) party, but that's easily remedied using simple protection schemes (either block access entirely, or throttle access to unauthenticated clients). I've done exactly this in numerous cases, using various router packages.

      Here's a sad, but interesting article: Man charged with wireless trespassing from July of 2005. To quote a section:

      Wireless networks are becoming more prevalent with the spread of broadband Internet access, and many consumers are not aware of how to configure their networks to avoid unauthorized access. This man was charged with a felony because the owner of the connection failed to educate himself on how to use a point and click interface to secure a home wireless router. Was he up to no good? Maybe, but we don't know for sure, and it's beside the point. If someone were to use my connection for criminal activities, it becomes my problem to prove it was the third party's actions, and not my own that led to the violation of law. He's "innocent until proven guilty" the same as I am. This is why companies (at least ones that aren't interested in getting sued) track their network access and provide authentication schemes.
    3. Re:Not a thief by Cerberus7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does the law already consider an open, unencrypted network as implicitly giving permission, or is it written to say that if the person who owns that open, unencrypted network has not given permission then it's illegal?

      What you say makes sense, but I don't expect the law to make sense.

      --
      I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
    4. Re:Not a thief by e03179 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You did when your router gave me explicit permission by assigning me an IP address...
      I am not a Wi-Fi hacker, but I'm pretty sure that humans don't get assigned IP addresses.
      --
      -516
    5. Re:Not a thief by Animaether · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "as I have never cracked a WEP or WPA password scheme"
      Have you ever spoofed a MAC address?
      Have you ever connected to an access point that did not broadcast its SSID?
      Have you ever connected to an access point that says "private", "stay out", or otherwise?

      If 'yes' to any of the above; I don't know about the U.S. law, but in The Netherlands you would still be guilty of "computerhuisvredebreuk"; meaning so much as tresspassing on a computer network

      Then again, a great many people seem to think that even WEP encryption is an open invite to use the system, given the easy of cracking it.

    6. Re:Not a thief by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does the law already consider an open, unencrypted network as implicitly giving permission, or is it written to say that if the person who owns that open, unencrypted network has not given permission then it's illegal?

      How does the law answer the same question about websites?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Not a thief by Alex+Belits · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is US -- we don't have real laws that get updated with precise description of what is and isn't a crime. "The law" is whatever the last time judge decided after hearing a shouting match between two attorneys.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    8. Re:Not a thief by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've never done any of the things you describe, because I consider them to be highly unethical. In my mind, connecting to an unadvertised resource fails the ethics test because there's no way anyone could reasonably imply that consent was given.

      Those who crack networks by breaking WEP, spoofing keys, or other measures should be held legally accountable. People who merely access an open, advertised resource shouldn't be at risk of going to prison.

    9. Re:Not a thief by Bandman · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm also pretty sure laptops don't get criminal trials

    10. Re:Not a thief by CogDissident · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sure they do, mr 57.85.0.6

    11. Re:Not a thief by Bandman · · Score: 5, Funny

      If the access point is broadcasting a signal which says that it isn't open I don't use it, even if it's using an insecure system such as WEP which might reasonably be treated as an invitation to hack.

      This is apparently some definition of the term "reasonably" of which I was previously unaware.

    12. Re:Not a thief by Bandman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I completely agree with your viewpoint.

      I've never been one of those people who feels like an unlocked door is an invitation, but call me old fashioned.

    13. Re:Not a thief by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I sasked your door permission to open by turning the handle, and when it did, since it was unlocked, I entered your house while you were gone today.

      Since nothing was bolted to your floor, I proceeded to help myself to your TV and associated A/V equipment, your PVR, your Playstation 3, and your Wii. Additionally, your study door similarly allowed me to enter your study, where I noticed some computer equipment that wasn't chained to the desk, so I left with that, too.

      Since your doors granted me permission to enter your house, and they were acting on your behelf since they are on your house, you have no reason to complain.

      Right?

    14. Re:Not a thief by bryce1012 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      An excellent point, and it makes me wonder... Could that judge with all the "porn" on his "website" file criminal charges against whomever dug that stuff up? After all, I'm pretty sure he didn't explicity grant them permission.

    15. Re:Not a thief by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I believe it is a lesser crime to enter without breaking in.

      Now, if you use an open network, you only use bandwidth temporarily. If you leave the network, the bandwidth will still be there. So it's more like entering an unlocked house to take a sip from the faucet. The only crime committed is that you didn't pay for bottled water.

      --

      Stop the brainwash

    16. Re:Not a thief by heckler95 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No personal offense intended, but if somebody is not knowledgeable enough to figure out how to properly setup the security of a wireless router to match their "desire", as you put it, then one would hope that they would be responsible enough to seek professional assistance, or at the very least, return the router for an easier-to-use model.

      Many of the latest consumer routers actually disable the wireless option at the factory, requiring the user to click through a simple wizard interface and explicitly choose whether to enable or disable security before the radio is turned on.

      How is this any different from setting up a web server on the internet with a published domain name containing sensitive information with no password protection or other authentication? Should anybody who attempts to gain access be imprisoned? I would hope that most reasonable judges would see this deliberate act as implicitly granting permission, even if it is an act of omission.

    17. Re:Not a thief by phoenix.bam! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bad analogy. I ring your doorbell and a ticket drops from the mail slot that says "You're free to enter the house and watch some tv."

    18. Re:Not a thief by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. The door does not act in your example, the router DOES act. A more accurate analogy would be: I asked your door to open for me AND IT DID OPEN. Not impossible, as many businnssess have doors that automatically open. 2. You had people STEAL things instead of simply enter the house and watch TV. We are describing someone enter the wifi connection and use it to connect to the internet, NOT take other things. Stop trying to ADD real crimes that we are NOT discussing. God, is it THAT hard to pay attention to our points or do you just ignore people that disagree with you and make up vile lies?

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    19. Re:Not a thief by tubapro12 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Leaving one's WLAN open and broadcasting is more like leaving your front door wide open and putting a neon sign that says OPEN. Maybe what is needed is regulation of who is allowed to run an open network such as a "wireless cafe permit" or something to that extent.

    20. Re:Not a thief by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bad analogy. I ring your doorbell and a ticket drops from the mail slot that says "You're free to enter the house and watch some tv."

      That was even worse. More accurate analogy: you have a loudspeaker shouting "HI! COME IN!" to all passersby. I ring your doorbell, and a key to the house and a nametag pops out of the mail slot.

      Don't want me in your house? Don't advertise free admission then give me a key and a nametag.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    21. Re:Not a thief by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I liken using somebody's unsecured wireless network to listening to a neighbor's music that they play loud enough for me to hear. I didn't ask my neighbor to send wifi signals into my home.

    22. Re:Not a thief by DoctorDeath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but a router is not a computer, it is an access device to the ISP

      --
      Sig temporarily out of service.
    23. Re:Not a thief by profplump · · Score: 4, Informative

      Entering an unlocked, unposted house is not a crime, at least not in my jurisdiction. If you enter a locked house, you're breaking and entering. If you enter a house posted with no trespassing signs, or enter a house and refuse to leave after being instructed to do so by a legal resident or their agent, you are trespassing. If you simply enter a house, stand around inside, and leave when asked without breaking anything, you have committed no crime.

    24. Re:Not a thief by McDutchie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So it's more like entering an unlocked house to take a sip from the faucet. The only crime committed is that you didn't pay for bottled water.

      Except that you didn't enter any house. Your neighbour is transmitting their open-access signal into your own house for you to use. Your analogy is therefore broken.

    25. Re:Not a thief by eebra82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate the house analogy when used in these debates. What if someone sets up a WiFi zone that covers dozens of apartments? Are you basically saying that there is a house - that you may or may not enter - in my apartment? This is where that analogy fails, because a house is still property. My apartment is, however, my property and what's in it is rightfully mine.

      The WiFi, if not secured, is simply private space because there is no sign that prohibits trespassing. Why the hell should I be a criminal if someone penetrates my apartment with WiFi signals that are not secured by password?

      By breaking through the encryption, you're obviously doing something criminal. But that's something entirely different, too..

    26. Re:Not a thief by salemnic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh c'mon - That _is_ a bad analogy. It would be more like your house was unlocked so I can in and made some local calls, or watched some TV.

      The taking of the stuff is where the analogy breaks down.

    27. Re:Not a thief by xtracto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you leave the network, the bandwidth will still be there.

      That could presumably be false if whoever is paying for the service pays for a limit GB/month allowance

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    28. Re:Not a thief by wild_quinine · · Score: 3, Interesting
      This kind of misses the point, actually. The purpose of a door, other than to keep heat in, is to DENY access. If you don't need to deny access, you don't need a door. Having a door at all is analagous to enabling WPA or WEP.

      By contrast, the purpose of a router is to ALLOW access. Only the encryption routines and MAC filtering are there to filter that access.

    29. Re:Not a thief by TheSpatulaOfLove · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm also pretty sure laptops don't get criminal trials Laptops may not, but printers are subject to civil lawsuits - Right, RIAA?
    30. Re:Not a thief by XenoPhage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know.. if the neighbor is playing loud music, you can complain to the authorities about that... I wonder if the same is true for wifi signals? I realize that the loud music is generally an ordinance thing, but still..

      I wonder if there's a case there for high population areas where there are lots of wifi signals... There are only 14 channels, 3 of which don't overlap... Can you sue for interference? (not that I'm sue happy, just curious..)

      --
      XenoPhage
      Technological Musings
    31. Re:Not a thief by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a door, in that if you don't have an IP on that WAP for whatever reason, then it's not going to pass traffic with you. Once you associate with it and get a DHCP lease, that door's wide open.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    32. Re:Not a thief by DriedClexler · · Score: 5, Funny

      *sigh*

      Three things are certain in life:

      1. Death
      2. Taxes
      3. Increasingly complicated analogy wars in discussions of wi-fi freeriding

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    33. Re:Not a thief by Red+Alastor · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the router owner pays extra for downloading a certain amount of GBs per month. The analogy holds. No wait, this is Slashdot... Does anyone have a car analogy?

      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
    34. Re:Not a thief by Illbay · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not true. Haven't you heard? The U.S. Supreme Court has now granted full U.S. Constitutional protections to laptops. Even if they're being detained at Gitmo.

      --
      Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    35. Re:Not a thief by JPLemme · · Score: 2

      Lets beat the metaphor to death. It's like letting your neighbor's sprinkler water your grass. If your neighbor didn't want to share the water with you he should have moved the sprinkler or put up a fence or something.

    36. Re:Not a thief by zmooc · · Score: 3, Informative

      The terminology of DHCP is even more clear than that of a simple login-form. It OFFERS you a LEASE. Next you REQUEST permission to use that LEASE after which the server ACKNOWLEDGES you REQUEST for a LEASE to use the network. Misunderstanding this is impossible if you speak english.

      A door doesn't, it merely opens, after which you still haven't been offered, granted, requested or acknowledged permission to enter the house.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    37. Re:Not a thief by evilandi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I believe it is a lesser crime to enter without breaking in.

      Correct. Burglary is the act of breaking AND entering AND committing theft (logical AND; all three must happen). Theft is the intention to permanently deprive someone of physical property. Since accessing open WiFi does not involve depriving someone of physical property (neither permanent nor temporary), it is neither theft nor burglary.

      Fraud covers many crimes such as obtaining goods or services through deception. Since there was no deception, there was no fraud.

      A door does not reply with a message granting me access; the fact that it is open, closed, locked, unlocked, slightly ajar or otherwise is legally irrelevant - the important thing with burglary is that you had to break something to gain entry and then take something without permission, with no intention of giving it back.

      An open WiFi router does specifically reply with a message granting me permission. The fact that it uses a particular protocol or particular encryption is legally irrelevent - the important thing is that it replied back with a message specifically granting me permission. Users are authorised.

      (Declaration of interest: I run a deliberately open WiFi hotspot - albeit heavily firewalled and bandwidth-throttled. )

      --
      Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
    38. Re:Not a thief by Q-Hack! · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    39. Re:Not a thief by Innova · · Score: 4, Funny

      A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

    40. Re:Not a thief by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're right... because the "intruder" does not take ANY PROPERTY AWAY from the wifi "provider/victim".

      The case of wifi is very particular because the user pays a FIXED FEE. Not even plugging your tv on your neighbor's house would be equivalent.

    41. Re:Not a thief by PFI_Optix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure. I found your car key in your house (the door was unlocked, remember) and took it for a drive. I returned it safe and sound, so what's the harm?

      What do you mean you don't have an unlimited gasoline supply? You pay per gallon? What?

      Satellite internet providers will throttle a user down siginificantly if their use exceeds so many GB per month. By using their wireless network, you are consuming bandwidth they pay for and causing them to be throttled when they might not be if you hadn't connected. Not to mention people who actually do pay per MB/GB.

      An unsecure wireless network is NOT an invitation, and negotiating a network connection does not equate implied permission to use the network. Just because you can do something unimpeded does not make it okay. I've seen malfunctioning routers that SHOULD be using encryption fail do to so. The configuration showed encryption as being active, but it worked as an open access point.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    42. Re:Not a thief by SeekerDarksteel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      An unsecure wireless network is NOT an invitation, and negotiating a network connection does not equate implied permission to use the network.

      Did you check your email this morning? If so, did you call up Google or Yahoo or your ISP or whoever provides it and ask them if you had permission to connect to their server?

      Did you call the person hosting TFA before clicking on the link asking if you had permission to access their server?

      Of course not. That's preposterous. Because the nature of a computer network is DEFAULT ALLOW. If it were not, the internet as we know it today would be impossible. Quite literally, the fact that I _can_ connect to a webserver makes it okay. The fact that I _can_ connect to an SMTP or POP3 server implies I have permission. And the fact that a wireless router grants my laptop an IP address is literally the router saying "Feel free to use me however you want."

      Just because people don't realize this fact doesn't make it any less the case. Otherwise, I could set up a webserver, buy a domain, then sue anyone who connects to my webserver for accessing my computer without my permission. I pay per GB of bandwidth the server uses, how dare you connect to _my_ webserver and use _my_ bandwidth.

      --
      The laws of probability forbid it!
    43. Re:Not a thief by Martin+Blank · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. The same FCC regulations that cover the use of that spectrum also protect people from claims of interference. You only have a claim if you can show that the equipment in use by the other person is interfering with other electronic equipment, and even then there may be limits. You cannot complain, for example, that their microwave oven, which disrupts your wireless signal because it leaks somewhat around channel 9 and you use something in the range of 6-11 inclusive, is degrading your experience because that's simply a risk that you accept when using equipment in the 2.4GHz spectrum. The same thing applies to Bluetooth and 2.4GHz phones, which can interfere with all channels, though equipment in this spectrum is generally designed to co-exist fairly well.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    44. Re:Not a thief by Fast+Thick+Pants · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Suppose you bought a used car lot, but not to sell the cars, just to have a nice inventory onhand for your friends and family who live nearby. You want to make it easy and convenient, so you get all the cars rekeyed so the same key will operate them all. You want to announce this service and distribute the keys, but it's too much trouble to look up each person's mailing address. So you get 1000 copies of the key made and bulk-mail them to everyone in the zip code, addressed to "Occupant", with an invitation that says "Feel free to borrow one of my cars!"

      Naturally, you assume that only the friends and family you intended will use the cars. Imagine your surprise when you see strangers borrowing the cars!

      Is this bad? Well, it's not doing anyone any harm... as long as you have enough cars left over for your friends and family too... as long as the strangers don't run over pedestrians with your cars and get the cops on your ass... as long as the local car rental company doesn't find out and come break your kees for stealing their business... Hmm, all in all, maybe it'd be safer to give the keys out only to selected individuals!

    45. Re:Not a thief by PFI_Optix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      did you call up Google or Yahoo or your ISP or whoever provides it and ask them if you had permission to connect to their server? Did you call the person hosting TFA before clicking on the link asking if you had permission to access their server?

      Obviously not, any more than I asked permission to enter a store. A web server is a lot different than a WAP in function and in intent. An unlocked door at a business and an unlocked door at a residence are similar.
      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    46. Re:Not a thief by somersault · · Score: 3, Interesting
      From wikipedia:

      It is common to see examples that attempt to show that the IPv6 address space is extremely large. For example, IPv6 supports 2^128 (about 3.4x10^38) addresses, or approximately 5x10^28 addresses for each of the roughly 6.5 billion (6.5x10^9) people alive today.[1] In a different perspective, this is 252 addresses for every star in the known universe[2] - more than ten billion billion billion times as many addresses as IPv4 supported. Now, I don't know about you but I think that is quite reasonable for now. When we all need 5x10^28 addresses each (not to mention the extra addresses each person can get behind a NAT) then there will be a problem.. in the meantime, "5x10^28 IP addresses should be enough for anyone" ;)
      --
      which is totally what she said
    47. Re:Not a thief by Fast+Thick+Pants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait wait, better -- you bulk mail out the invitation to "Occupant", but it doesn't include the key. Instead of getting the cars rekeyed, you just have a giant rack of keys, and you hire a guy, Vito Linksysio, to hand out the keys as needed. Now, you *could* give Vito pictures of people who are allowed to borrow the cars, but that's too much trouble. You *could* tell him that people have to know a password to get a car, but that's too much trouble. So you just tell him to hand a key to whoever shows up.

      And even though you've mailed the invitation to the entire zip code, you're still shocked, shocked to find that strangers are borrowing the cars. How forward of them!

    48. Re:Not a thief by mollymoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Better analogy: you knock on the door, a 5 year-old answers, you ask them if you can come in and they say yes. While the child and the router are capable of granting access, nether one can grant you the necessary permission.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    49. Re:Not a thief by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 4, Funny

      And in California you can marry them!

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    50. Re:Not a thief by Illbay · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hm. Can my laptop and I adopt children? Although I'm not exactly sure what sort of parent that it'd be. It appears to have "issues" with pornography.

      --
      Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    51. Re:Not a thief by Dread_ed · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you simply enter a house, stand around inside, and leave when asked without breaking anything, you have committed no crime.

      I have GOT to try that! Where do you live? :)

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    52. Re:Not a thief by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now, I don't know about you but I think that is quite reasonable for now. When we all need 5x10^28 addresses each (not to mention the extra addresses each person can get behind a NAT) then there will be a problem.. in the meantime, "5x10^28 IP addresses should be enough for anyone" ;) What I mean is that limits should be unreasonably large or else they will prove to be unreasonably small. A reasonable limit will invariably be proven too low. Preferably, limits should be done away with when at all possible, but if they must exist, let them be unreasonably large.

      Reasonable? If every person required one new IP address every millisecond it would still take 1.58444 x 10^18 years to exhaust them.

      And I meant it jokingly here. IMO IPv6 gets it right by setting a very unreasonable (-ly high) limit. But, since you didn't laugh, I have to be serious now.

      With developments today, I wouldn't be surprised if someone finds a reason to consume huge swaths of IP addresses rapidly. Maybe not by assigning every RFID tag a unique IPv6 address, but who knows how many may actually be in a single product. Or maybe, taking your figure of 5x10^28 IP addresses per person, that's a big address space in which to randomly route packets to prevent their reassembly by an outside party. You may just have to do that to protect your privacy against the ubiquitous microscopic self-replicating cameras floating around everywhere like grains of dust, each with their own IP addresses as well.

      There's another phrase, I think it goes, "Programs will expand to fill available memory." If you give a huge space for IP addresses, expect IP assignments to grow to fill that address space. Even to waste it by doing sparse allocation.

      There are programmers out there today that think not consuming a processor 100% all the time is a waste of processing power, so they write wastefully inefficient code all the time to utilize the processor all the time, ignoring the needs of other concurrent proceses.
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    53. Re:Not a thief by mr_matticus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The hell they aren't!

      During business hours, you're a business invitee to the property. You have tacit permission to enter, but the owner can still ask you to leave.

      There is no such license to enter private property. If the owner hasn't expressly authorized your presence, you're trespassing.

      The only way these are similar is that if you use an unsecured wifi network, you must take responsibility for the fact that you may be trespassing. Locked or unlocked, it's still their network. You don't get to enter the house just because the door's open. And before anyone complains about "unsolicited radio waves"--guess what? Radio waves aren't actionable as a nuisance, nor are scents (apart from those indicative of health code violations), nor are the damn photons flying into your eyes. If you want to be certain you're not doing anything improper, seek permission and don't use unsecured networks unless you know you've been authorized. Otherwise, you bear the risk of being at fault for unauthorized access, just like when you go berrypicking in the woods.

  2. Officially a crime? by skirmish666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Could you clarify, a wifi hotspot is classified as a computer? It's intentionally accessing a network for sure, but don't know about a computer.

    --
    Sigger than your average
  3. This can be argued, but... by idiot900 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As it is officially a crime to steal wi-fi (Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47 of the United States Code, which covers anybody who "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access")." Would this apply to an access point which advertises its SSID and doesn't demand credentials from users? I would argue that it authorizes everyone to use it. To draw an analogy, it isn't just leaving your front door unlocked, it's leaving it unlocked and putting up a sign that says "Please come in!". So I don't see how accessing an open access point is a officially a crime.

    But then again, I'm not a lawyer.
    1. Re:This can be argued, but... by Se7enLC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To extend on that analogy - it's not like the front door of your house, it's like the door of a business.

      An advertised SSID is identifying an available service. Just like a sign that says "bookstore" or "Starbucks" advertises the service available inside.

      When I walk up to the door of the starbucks, I pull on the handle. If it's locked, I assume it's closed and I leave. If it's open, I go inside. Same with a wifi access point. If they have an advertised SSID and don't set a password it's the same as putting up a business sign and having the door unlocked.

      In fact, a number of companies use this exact business model for wireless. Starbucks, TMobile, etc.

      1). Connect to a wireless network without explicit authorization
      2). Open a web browser.
      3). A web page displays asking for credit card payment or other credentials for use.

      On an open network, you're already surfing google before you get to step 3. And if that is committing a crime, so is accessing starbucks wireless.

    2. Re:This can be argued, but... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To draw an analogy, it isn't just leaving your front door unlocked, it's leaving it unlocked and putting up a sign that says "Please come in!".

      Double that for access points in commercial places. You can argue (and I would disagree) that residential WLANs are meant to be private, but I would say that a business's hotspot is exactly as open as their front door. If it's unlocked and there's a sign saying "OPEN", then it's meant for me to use.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:This can be argued, but... by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Funny

      Besides, how else are you supposed to get Internet when you first move? It took Comcast two weeks to come and set me up (and I'm a business customer). I'm sure it'll change one day... but until then, checking for and using a neighbor's wifi is just another part of moving!

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  4. Authorization by Hatta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47 of the United States Code, which covers anybody who "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access"


    Open routers have a policy of allowing authorization by default. As such, using an open router is not illegal under this act. If you have to crack anything, then it is illegal. But a simple open router is no different than an open anonymous FTP site, web server, irc server, etc.
    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  5. How Guilty? by stewbacca · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How guilty do I feel when my computer/phone/whatever connects to a wide-open wifi signal without even prompting me to do anything? How about, "not at all"?

  6. Not At All? by D+Ninja · · Score: 5, Funny

    But how guilty do we really feel? About as guilty as I feel when I drive above the speed limit.
  7. I can neither confirm nor deny... by Ngarrang · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...that I may or may not be using yours or someone else's unsecured wi-fi access point, Definitely maybe not, to post this response.

    --
    Bearded Dragon
  8. This story is stupid by pilbender · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WiFi hotspots are all over. I've connected to dozens of them. That's what they are for.

    So the only way a person *knows* it's not intended to be a public network is by having someone complain about it after the fact. Lots of people leave their WiFi open at home as a "public service".

    It's different to intentionally circumvent protections that are in place, like WEP or restriction by MAC address. That's prying open a locked door so to speak.

    Sometimes I think these article summaries are intentionally worded to get slashdotters cranked up. Okay, it worked on me.

    --
    Fresh horses and more whiskey for my men.
    1. Re:This story is stupid by wolf12886 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sometimes I think these article summaries are intentionally worded to get slashdotters cranked up. Sometimes?
  9. Re:no theft here by KingArthur10 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Routers/Access Points are computing devices more sophisticated than the computers of the early 80s.

    --
    I came, I saw, She conquered.
  10. Not at all? by pla · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But how guilty do we really feel?

    Although I think the answer to that depends on how much (and how) we use it, I'd say that most people don't feel at all guilty about using any convenient access point for short, low-bandwidth activities.

    If I need directions while out and about, I'll find an open AP and pull up Google Maps. No guilt whatsoever, and I wouldn't mind if someone used my AP for the same; In fact, I'd consider this one of the greatest side-effects of ubiquitous open WAPs, the ability to share a small trickle of a resource I never need all to myself (and to use it when I similarly need that small trickle of data).

    Now, regularly using a neighbor's wireless to avoid needing to pay for your own ISP (unless you have an agreement to split the cost - Of course, the ISPs hate this, but I see no ethical problem with it) or downloading kiddie porn or sucking a large portion of the available bandwidth... That gets into abusive territory, and such people should feel guilty.

  11. Re:no theft here by SQLGuru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If your LinkSys router is running some flavor of Linux, is it not a computer? Even your microwave is a computer.

    In this case, you aren't accessing the computer, you are communicating with it.....you are accessing the NETWORK without (human) permission.....which the law (as stated in the summary) doesn't cover that situation.

    Layne

  12. Blame Windows by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Windows is, by default, configured to automatically connect to new networks. Which means, it is configured to silently break the law, without your knowledge. The 53% of people who admit to stealing WiFi is probably really higher - many people don't know where thier bits are coming from.

    The power went off in my house the other day - and nobody noticed. The four or five laptops in use all silently switched over to a neighbour's network. I can't see that being considered a crime.

    1. Re:Blame Windows by Totenglocke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well the relevant thing in the case of the speeding ticket is, was the change in the speed limit clearly marked? I know many places around where I live where you can be on a road with a speed limit of say 45 or 50, turn onto another road, and not see a speed limit sign for several miles. If I was on one of those roads and got a ticket because I had to guess at the speed limit due to a lack of signs, you'd better believe I'd be suing.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  13. plenty of us just give it away... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At home I've got a completely open wifi access point for all my neighbors to use. Since none of them are all that tech savvy I don't need to worry about them hogging bandwidth through bittorrent and the like. I figure that as long as my own access to Internet is unobstructed, why shouldn't I let others partake in it for free?

    1. Re:plenty of us just give it away... by despe666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here are a few reasons why this is a bad idea. 1. You are accountable for any illegal activity that happens on your account. Your neighbor may not be tech savvy, but wait until their nephew or grandson shows up and wreaks havoc on Limewire. 2. I assume this is not a problem for you, but by default, security software usually put the LAN in a trusted zone. Malware may spread quickly on a LAN you do not have control over. 3. If one of them discovers the joys of bittorrent, you can kiss your bandwidth limit goodbye (assuming you have one). My wi-fi is protected by WPA and MAC filters. It may not be 100% foolproof (what is anyways?), but it will keep most if not all of the trouble out.

  14. If this was wikipedia... by VMaN · · Score: 2, Interesting


    If this was wikipedia, "stealing" in this context would be a weasel word...

    If a router is handing out IPs, how is that stealing?

    Unless we are talking wpa/wep encryption cracking, or possibly abusing the connection, I don't see what the problem is.

    1. Re:If this was wikipedia... by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can't steal something that is given to you. If a router gives me bandwidth for free, and the owner runs out of his allowance, well he shouldn't have given it all away should he?

      I have a limited supply of cakes, if I put up a sign saying free cake, then I get home and find there is no cake left for me, I can't cry that they all stole the cake. I foolishly gave away my cake. If the sign reads 'Private cake: only for eating by Oktober and his housemates' and it is locked inside a cage, then that would be a different situation. Claiming I didn't know how to configure my cake sign and I just left it with the default 'free cake' message makes no difference,

    2. Re:If this was wikipedia... by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 2, Informative

      If there was a sign on the bike that said 'free bike: Take me' or the $20 note had a post-it attached saying 'free money, keep me' then yes I would have no trouble in taking it.

      Just as I would see a difference between finding a book and finding a book saying 'Free Book'. If I was on my university campus and saw an unlabeled book left on a bench I would take it to lost property. If I saw a book saying 'free book', I might take it if it looked like it might be good.

      The cage around the cake is not important, the sign is the important part. If I came upon a cake with a sign saying 'Anyone may eat this cake' or with a button saying press here if you wish to eat this cake, and pressing the button gave the message 'You may eat this cake, here is your cake eating number' then I would feel it is ok for me to eat the cake. If the sign said 'Only Bob McMonkey may eat this cake' or a button to press which then asked 'are you Bob Mcmonkey?' y/n, it would be clear that taking the cake and eating it would be wrong, and telling the sign that I was Bob McMonkey would be wrong too, even though it would be easy to do.

  15. Crime by JustKidding · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As it is officially a crime to steal wi-fi in the US, maybe.

    Some people actually do live outside the US. This may come as a surprise to you, be we even have electricity and computers.

    Also, in many places, the law is quite a bit more reasonable. Where I live, it is only illegal to access a system when a reasonable effort has been made to protect it (so an open access point doesn't count), and even then, they have to prove you intentionally did that.
  16. Broadcast = Permission by Toe,+The · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Indeed. I don't know how the law is interpreted, but I cannot imagine how anyone who broadcasts an unencrypted radio signal can complain if someone else picks up that signal. It would be like a TV station claiming that you are stealing their content because you tuned into their channel.

    You could say that a wifi router is different from TV because the activity is two-way: but the wifi router chooses to respond to me. If the owner of the router never bothered to tell their router not to respond to me, then is it my fault that it does? Am I guilty if my computer merely pings their router because it created a response on that router? They are the one who initiated the communication by broadcasting hello packets.

    1. Re:Broadcast = Permission by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Am I guilty if my computer merely pings their router because it created a response on that router? They are the one who initiated the communication by broadcasting hello packets.

      Complicating matters is that certain popular OSes (XP, I'm looking at you) tend to auto-connect to the strongest signal available, no matter how nicely you ask them to stop doing that. If you're closer to your next-door neighbor's WAP than your own, and Windows decides to use his without asking your permission or even telling you, then can you really be considered guilty of anything? And doesn't that mean that the world's largest OS vendor considers "default allow" to be the correct interpretation of WAP etiquette?

      As little as I'm a fan of MS, I think "that's the way Windows does it automatically" would be a pretty good defense against criminal intent, even if a jury disagreed with the legality of the actions themselves.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  17. Re:Not a thief - depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It depends from country to country:

    • In Singapore you can be arrested for using an open access point because it is not clear that it was set up for you to use.
    • In Germany you can be arrested for having an open access point because it is clear that you have set it up for others to use.

    Ahh.. the logic of law.
  18. Does the law really say this? by feenberg · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is a link to the actual law:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001030----000-.html

    In addition to "intention" there seems also to be a requirement for damage or fraud, or revealing atomic secrets. I don't think it is obvious that using a wi-fi router based on a DHCP reply is improper under the law, although the syntax of the law is complex. Walking up the front walk of a home to ring the doorbell isn't necessarily trespassing, even without permission.

  19. tsoat by Tsoat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Encrypt your signal or expect people to use it. It's that simple folks

  20. "Stealing" isn't the right word. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I leave my access point open on purpose. Anyone can connect, and I even named my router "Open Access Point". If someone connects, I don't think they're stealing from me.

    At some point, I think society would be better served by everyone leaving all of their access points open. I love the idea of mesh networks and eliminating the need for everyone to have a wired connection to the internet.

  21. The fault is the tech by TheLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not well thought out. Otherwise you wouldn't have this issue in the first place.

    If I want to share my WiFi it isn't easy to make it known of my wishes and my terms and conditions - after all, though I share it, I might say I log access, (mac addresses, urls etc) just in case someone does something illegal, so that if the cops come, I could throw them that bone to chew on, instead of them chewing on me.

    If it were well thought out, it would be easy to have secure encrypted _anonymous_ connections:
    1) no need for people to enter a password to get encryption
    2) people cannot see each other's traffic - snooping is possible in some encryption modes, for example if everyone knows the WEP key, they can figure out each other's traffic, so you'd need some WPA mode, but these require username and passwords, you could give everyone the same username and password, but there's no standard for Windows, Linux, Mac to try "anonymous" usernames and passwords ala anonymous ftp.

    And also there would be a standard way to get info about a wifi zone, and to prompt the user if the info/T&C changes, say when you computer connects to a different AP.

    So the tech still needs a fair bit of work.

    --
  22. Re:no theft here by nanop · · Score: 5, Funny

    We'll today'll be the last time I heat my burrito in the microwave in "Executives Only" lounge, lest I be charged under Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47...

  23. Lets Be Reasonable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What's the cost of leeching of someones wifi? If you're not downloading a season of The Office with bit-torrent, or watching high-definition streaming video with your neighbors unsecured wifi then I cant imagine that you'd have any great impact on them. I have a cable modem connected to a wireless router at my apartment -- and I leave it unsecured intentionally for the sole purpose of helping someone out who needs to get online. For everyday browsing, emailing, and use of aptitude (I really don't do much more than that I guess) I'm fine with two or three guests in my routers DHCP table. I think the lesson we should take from wifi leaching is that for general purpose internet use, what most of us do, everyone having their own cable modem and paying a media-mega giant 60 bucks a month isn't necessary. If we got less up-tight about trusting our neighbors, it's another area where things could be cheaper.

  24. Re:sure, we understand that... by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Informative

    Depending upon where you are and the local laws, if you are parked in front of someone's house you could be cited for loitering. There is almost always a way for cops to detain/ticket someone if they want.

  25. I don't get it by leoboiko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't see what's the drama with open access. I leave my AP open on purpose, with an essid starting with "free_" to reinforce the idea, and a simple QOS setup to give me priority over my neighbors. I can't even notice when they're using the net, and I counted more than 10 different MAC addresses so far. More people using the net == good. It's not like I need all my bandwidth 24/7...

    in b4 "but pedophiles will get you jailed, think of the children!!" -- I'm no more responsible for that than the hot dog vendor in the corner would be if ninja terrorists employed his hot dogs as lethal weapons.

    --
    Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.
    1. Re:I don't get it by gwbennett · · Score: 2, Informative

      I did this. Had 2 routers at home, and 2 separate networks. One called public, and once called private. One day I got an email from a lady several states away saying my IP address was "stalking" her, and that she was working with law enforcement to figure out why. She already had my name, address, profession, and IP address. I replied that I had had an open network, and sent her a screenshot of the MAC addresses/host names connected at that time, and also a log of all DHCP leases that had been issued on that network the previous week. I also unplugged that router. I never heard anything more of it, but even having to "defend" myself to that extent was not worth the hassle just to be the nice guy in my apartment complex who violated COX's TOS and gave out free internet. So now it is no longer.

      --
      Where is this free beer everyone on Slashdot keeps talking about?
  26. Re:no theft here by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Your subject is correct, the summarry is wrong.

    steal
          Audio Help /stil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[steel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, verb, stole, stolen, stealing, noun
    -verb (used with object)
    1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
    2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
    3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
    4. to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually fol. by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
    5. Baseball. (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.
    6. Games. to gain (a point, advantage, etc.) by strategy, chance, or luck.
    7. to gain or seize more than one's share of attention in, as by giving a superior performance: The comedian stole the show.
    -verb (used without object)
    8. to commit or practice theft.
    9. to move, go, or come secretly, quietly, or unobserved: She stole out of the house at midnight.
    10. to pass, happen, etc., imperceptibly, gently, or gradually: The years steal by.
    11. Baseball. (of a base runner) to advance a base without the help of a walk or batted ball.
    -noun
    12. Informal. an act of stealing; theft.
    13. Informal. the thing stolen; booty.
    14. Informal. something acquired at a cost far below its real value; bargain: This dress is a steal at $40.
    15. Baseball. the act of advancing a base by stealing.
    --Idiom16. steal someone's thunder, to appropriate or use another's idea, plan, words, etc.

    Accessing a hotspot without authorization may be a crime, but so is smoking pot. Is smoking marijuana "thieft"?

    You are correct, TFS is wrong. If I steal your truck you don't have access to your truck. If I hide in its bed and ride downtown with you without your knowledge, it may be wrong and it may be illegal but I didn't steal anything.
    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  27. oh boy by gTsiros · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They rob me of quiet and peace. i never make noise. They gun their 50cc twostroke scooters at 2am. i spent 100 bux (70 euros give or take) to fix my car's muffler so it is SILENT where they PAY to make them louder. they toss their garbage wherever they like. i try to recycle. the rest of the apartment block is drenched in tobaccosmoke stench. when/if i smoke i make sure to neutralize the smoke.

    i don't feel guilty at all and don't you dare start with the "two wrongs don't make a right" crap. /torrenting as we speak

    --
    Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
  28. I thought that law was un-enforceable by random+coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought that law was unenforceable, since the RIAA violates it routinely and it is never enforced against them.

  29. In Germany, you are a thief by Conley+Index · · Score: 2, Informative

    Contrary to anything anticipated, a German court just ruled that someone did a criminal act connecting to an open wifi.

    The DHCP package you take as an invitation was interpreted by the court as a telecommunication message not intended for the recipient and thus illegal to read.

    1. Re:In Germany, you are a thief by russotto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The DHCP package you take as an invitation was interpreted by the court as a telecommunication message not intended for the recipient and thus illegal to read.


      Which is insane, as the DHCP reply packet was actually _addressed_ to the recipient. But why should the law be sane? Much easier to start with the conclusion (Guilty, guilty, guilty! Burn the hacker!) and come up with some plausible sounding justification for it.
  30. Re:no theft here by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

    If your LinkSys router is running some flavor of Linux, is it not a computer? Even your microwave is a computer.
    My microwave runs Linux? *stares at microwave in awe*
  31. Illegal versus Unethical. by Jaywalk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now, regularly using a neighbor's wireless to avoid needing to pay for your own ISP (unless you have an agreement to split the cost - Of course, the ISPs hate this, but I see no ethical problem with it) or downloading kiddie porn or sucking a large portion of the available bandwidth... That gets into abusive territory, and such people should feel guilty.
    If we're looking for a "legal" definition, these activities (with the exception of the kiddie porn) are unethical rather than illegal. If someone leaves a WAP open with the understanding that others may use it, they're leaving themselves open to others who abuse the privilege. A bit like telling the neighbors they can borrow stuff from the workshed and assuming they'll return it in good condition. Those who abuse the privilege should feel guilty, but they shouldn't be arrested.

    And if the neighbors ain't neighborly, it's time to padlock the workshed.
    --
    ===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
  32. Stop misusing the word "stealing" by szquirrel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For fuck's sake, do we have to go over this again? Stealing means that the perpetrator takes something away and the victim doesn't have it anymore. It doesn't apply to accessing someone's wifi, it doesn't apply to unscrambling a pay-TV channel, it doesn't apply to copying a digital file.

    If you're going to cast "unauthorized use" in terms of robbery, then don't cry about how your rights are being taken away when you get prosecuted as a robber for making use of something that someone else couldn't be bothered to secure properly.

    --
    Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
  33. My Ungrounded Lightning by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I use WiFi signals that are in the air somewhere that I've got a right to be myself, like in my own home or office, I feel the same way about using it as I do when I use an electrical ground wire. Or reading a newspaper in the incident light.

    If those electrons or photons are trespassing in my private property, whoever sent them there is fortunate that I don't take countermeasures, in court or with a lethal focusing reflector.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  34. Even better analogy by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You ring the doorbell, a ticket drops from the mail slot that says "You're free to enter the house and watch some TV", and the door swings open for you, and a lighted path to the TV illuminates on the floor. Valuable objects may be in plain view, but messing with them in any way wouldn't be ethical, since they are clearly personal, whereas access to the TV isn't.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Even better analogy by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sorry, without the car, I'm lost.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  35. Re:It *is* unethical to steal wi-fi by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you're stealing wifi right now, do the right thing and pay for it. SOMEONE has to pay for it, and it's not right to have someone else pay for you.

    I bet drinking fountains ruin your day.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  36. set geography_mode = typical_American by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

    What if you're standing exactly on the border between Germany and Singapore?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:set geography_mode = typical_American by level99 · · Score: 3, Funny

      What if you're standing exactly on the border between Germany and Singapore?

      Then I for one welcome you as our new super giant mega Godzilla-like overlord, and you can use whatever access point you like. Seriously. Whatever you like.

  37. You forgot to add... by DeadDecoy · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know where you live, I have your traceroute.

    1. Re:You forgot to add... by rodney+dill · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sorry I'm not at 127.0.0.1 right now, please leave a message... (beep)

      --

      Use your head, can't you, use your head,
      You're on earth, there's no cure for that
      - S. Beckett
    2. Re:You forgot to add... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      You know where his geolocation in canada is... actually, he lives in Nebraska.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  38. Mod Parent Down. by Kankraka · · Score: 2, Informative

    Being 'forced' into XP due to my love of games, my primary machines have always ran it since SP1 release, even then, I used pre SP1 xp, and gradually upgraded from there. I have been using wireless since wireless B hardware became cheap enough (the 70~ dollar CAD for a NIC range) for my then after school job would allow me to afford. Never once, has windows automatically connected to the most powerful random network unless I had the AUTOMATICALLY CONNECT TO NON-PREFERRED NETWORKS box selected under the advanced properties for wireless networks. If there is no preferred network, it merely tells me some are in range, and asks me to select one if I choose to. This is how it's been since day one, that box has never been checked by default after any fresh installation either.

  39. California law by BasharTeg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just for everyone's entertainment, the california statute that applies is:

    California Penal Code Section 502(c)(3) and 502(c)(7).

    And for all of the idiots stating that the "router" gave them permission, give me a break. The router isn't a legal entity, and only works in the way you interact with it. Just like the door knob.

    I twisted the doorknob (initiated association with the accesspoint), and the doorknob gave me permission to enter by retracting the latch (allowing me to associate and giving me a DHCP lease). The owner of the door could have configured the door differently, by engaging the lock mechanism (using WEP or WPA), so since he didn't I'm free to enter and watch his HBO (use his broadband internet access). I'm not "stealing" from him, because it's not like he has less HBO (internet) now that I've viewed some of his HBO (internet).

    A big part of what a lot of people are missing is, even if you had a point regarding associating with his wireless network because it is open (which you don't), that only gives you authorization to access his LAN. You still have no right to use his paid broadband internet services. You don't have that right, because you aren't paying the ISP, and because the owner of the access point doesn't have the right to share or transfer his right to use his internet service with all of his neighbors, just like I don't have the right to share my HBO programming with all of my neighbors. It's called theft of service. Even if you claim the right to access the wireless owner's network, you certainly do not have permission to access the ISP's network. And even if I run coax down my lawn, and put a coax jack at the end of my property so that people on the sidewalk can screw into it and watch HBO, that doesn't mean I have any right to share my HBO or that you have any right to leech service that you're not paying for.

    Using someone else's wifi is a crime, because you're not just accessing their network, you're accessing their ISP's network without permission. Giving away your wifi by intentionally hosting open access points is very likely a breach of your contract with your ISP.

    1. Re:California law by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And for all of the idiots stating that the "router" gave them permission, give me a break. The router isn't a legal entity, and only works in the way you interact with it. Just like a laptop -- many of which are configured to auto-connect to any open wireless.

      I twisted the doorknob (initiated association with the accesspoint), and the doorknob gave me permission to enter by retracting the latch (allowing me to associate and giving me a DHCP lease). Never mind that the doorknob also had a little built-in speaker screaming "Hey everyone! Free stuff in here!" (SSID broadcast.)

      I'm not "stealing" from him, because it's not like he has less HBO (internet) now that I've viewed some of his HBO (internet). Except he does. If he's on a metered service, he does have less Internet. Even if he's not, I'd be sucking down bandwidth, possibly lagging him out if he's on at the same time.

      that only gives you authorization to access his LAN. You still have no right to use his paid broadband internet services. No, the fact that the same DHCP lease also included information about available gateways and DNS servers, and that the DNS servers responded, and the gateway let me through -- I think that pretty much constitutes an invitation to use his broadband.

      You don't have that right, because you aren't paying the ISP, and because the owner of the access point doesn't have the right to share or transfer his right to use his internet service with all of his neighbors, Really? How should I know? Shouldn't that be (again) their responsibility for not sharing their service with me (assuming they don't have that right), rather than my responsibility to ask them (and then their ISP) for permission?

      What if they tell me it's OK? Surely, if I'm visiting someone's house, there's no meaningful difference between them sharing their Internet with my laptop, or inviting me to use their computer.

      For that matter, if SSID broadcast, working DHCP, working DNS, and a working gateway aren't enough to authorize someone, is there any technological means by which I can declare a wireless network to be open and legal?

      just like I don't have the right to share my HBO programming with all of my neighbors. As far as I know, it's still legal to throw your own superbowl party -- invite a few friends over to watch TV with you. So your analogy fails.

      Giving away your wifi by intentionally hosting open access points is very likely a breach of your contract with your ISP. Then that is between you and your ISP -- not between every random passerby with an iPhone and your ISP.

      Using someone else's wifi is a crime You've fallen into the same trap as the MPAA -- I bet you think sharing copyrighted music is a crime?

      Wrong on both counts. When I go to the coffee shops in this town, they have public wifi set up, deliberately, explicitly as free for their customers -- one of them has a sign in the window from their ISP which advertises it.

      And copyrighted music, of course, is entirely legal to share if you have permission of the copyright holder to do so.
      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  40. You can't use a laptop in a car? by Xocet_00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Last year a man in Cedar Springs, Mich., was fined $400 for mooching off somebody else's wi-fi--a police officer spotted him laptop-surfing in a parked car."

    My laptop has an internal EVDO Rev A card that has become my primary mode of connecting to the net outside of my home. I've only had it for a month or so. I use this laptop in cars or other public spaces all the time. It seems unlikely that I'd be able to convince a police officer that I do in fact own the connection that I'm using to surf in a parking lot. It's an easy assumption to make that anyone using a laptop out in the open is likely using a nearby 802.11 network.

    So, assuming the cop doesn't believe me, how is the fine given out? If I'm spotted, does the cop write me a ticket? Does he arrest me? Do I have to go to court and prove that I am, in fact, using a connection for which I've paid?

    Hopefully there's more to that story than the article lets on. Hopefully showing the officer the "TELUS" logo on my connection app would be convincing enough. Otherwise, it seems like this sort of thing is very guilty-until-proven-innocent.

  41. Re:I haven't seen this... by Mox-Dragon · · Score: 2, Funny

    5nd? It sounds more like it was written by a 3th grader.

  42. School Analogy by Daryen · · Score: 2, Interesting
    In my opinion, accessing an open router may not be illegal, but it can still get you in trouble depending on who owns it.


    Case 1: A university has a large sign out front broadcasting it's name and anyone can enter the campus. There are places you should know you shouldn't go on campus unless you are a student or teacher, and things you know you shouldn't do.

    This is analogous to having a router with SSID broadcasting that assigns IPs to anyone automatically and gives them unrestricted internet access. You shouldn't access their computers or start printing stuff on their network printer. It's still assumed that you should use the router for legal purposes and it's polite not to kill it with bittorrent.

    Case 2: A public school in a rural neighborhood has a sign out front, but you need to go to the front desk and get a nametag if you aren't a student. You need to state your purpose and leave when you're done. It would be trivially easy to go in a side door, but that would get you in trouble.

    This is analogous to a cafe with a sign that says "Free wifi for customers." Sure you COULD access it out in the parking lot, but the legality of it is much more in the gray area, and it's possible they could attempt to bring charges.

    Case 3: A private school in an urban area has no sign, and a large gate out front. You aren't allowed anywhere on campus without permission.

    This is analogous to a wifi network with no SSID broadcasting and wep encryption enabled. It is clear that this network was not meant for your use.

  43. Pedant? by rodney+dill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought you were being the Pink Panther...
    Pedant.... Pedant.... pedant.pedant.pedant...

    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
    You're on earth, there's no cure for that
    - S. Beckett
  44. Re:If you really want to pick up this analogy and by Orange+Crush · · Score: 4, Funny

    maybe the problem is just that there's no easy way to differentiate between a deliberately open router and a purposefully left open one...

    Indeed. I think there may be no way at all to differentiate between a router left open deliberately and one left open purposefully.

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. Indeed by goldcd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    with a standard router you can name the SSID 'Please use me' - but that's about it. One vaguely interesting thing on the horizon are the dual SSID routers - the ridiculously over designed Belkin n router I understand allows you to have a private and a public/guest dual SSID thingie running. In my happy-clappy rainbow world all routers would be like that, with an option on setup for a 'non-LAN, throttled/low priority' public option available for easy selection on install. Think if people are given option to share without risk they'd click yes (well enough would).