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Trees' Leaves Grow At a Cool 70° All Over the World

biogeochick writes "Ever turn on the air conditioner on a hot day? How about a heater when it gets cold? OK, so we all know that humans act to keep themselves cool, but what about trees? A recent article on tree core isotopic evidence has shown that trees from tropical to boreal forests all grow at 70 degrees. The study, published in Nature by some fantastic researchers (so one of them is my adviser, so sue me) and covered by NPR on All Things Considered, has shed some light on the convergent temperature at which trees perform photosynthesis." Update: 06/19 21:31 GMT by T : I give, I give -- that's 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

102 of 537 comments (clear)

  1. Get a real unit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's insane, that's so hot we'd burn our fingers if we touched the trees?!

    1. Re:Get a real unit. by dougmc · · Score: 4, Funny
      No, 70 degrees is too cold!

      Hell, there have been some superconductors found that work at 70 degrees!
      Perhaps rather than `get a real unit', just give a unit, real or not.

    2. Re:Get a real unit. by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, 70 degrees is about four-fifths of a right angle.

      I just hope someone doesn't come around and rotate my trees, because they might die!

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    3. Re:Get a real unit. by dougmc · · Score: 5, Funny
      touche!

      And in a similar vein, I thought I was only six degrees away from Kevin Bacon? Or was that Paris Hilton? Either way, *70* degrees seems very excessive!

      It took me 10 years of school to get two degrees ... 70 would take ... a long time.

    4. Re:Get a real unit. by Microsift · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I recall my chemistry correctly, I think you mean 70 Kelvin, the Kelvin scale does not use degrees.

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    5. Re:Get a real unit. by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you going to insist me in the face if I keep using Fahrenheit?

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    6. Re:Get a real unit. by Lars+T. · · Score: 3, Funny

      And I thought this thread would wander off into a Global Warming flame-fest - instead you open the door to a Evolution thread.

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    7. Re:Get a real unit. by PaganRitual · · Score: 4, Funny

      Never mind rotation, a tree at 70 degrees is in great danger of falling over.

      Not that anyone would hear it, mind you.

    8. Re:Get a real unit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think it's quite clear what degrees was referring to...the only problem was they didn't indicate whether it was North, South, East or West, so you can't tell whether they're talking about latitude or longitude. Either way, I think they're saying they've located the last grouping of trees left on the planet.

      With exciting news like this, we may yet slow the pace of global climate change!

    9. Re:Get a real unit. by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course it is Fahrenheit, but why the hell the temperature in a real unit is not at the post's update?

    10. Re:Get a real unit. by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

      70 degrees? That's a smart fucking tree.

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    11. Re:Get a real unit. by PaganRitual · · Score: 4, Funny

      Trees do have quite a long lifespan you know, much longer than humans.

      A tree in general has more than enough time time in its life to :

      - heat up to 70C and burn all its leaves off,

      - cool down to 70F and grow them all back again,

      - complete 70 various degrees ranging from "Bachelor of the justification of stealing someone elses wifi" all the way to "Masters in the creation of piss-poor wifi analogies", during which time it likely met a lot of /.ers

      - run out of lame 70 degrees jokes to make because after the three obvious ones everyone starting converting 70 to every other fucking useless unit under the sun

      shortly before one distasterous day, leaning over to a 70 degree angle to shit in the woods before accidentally but silently falling down to it's death, at which point you can count the rings to show that oh wow I can't believe you read this far I am so fucking bored.

    12. Re:Get a real unit. by jc42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you mean 70 Kelvin, the Kelvin scale does not use degrees.

      Actually, it does, but it uses the Celsius degree. The term "Kelvin" unit is defined as "degrees Celsius above absolute zero". So a phrase like "70 degrees Kelvin" expands to "70 degrees degrees Kelvin above absolute zero". This isn't so much wrong as silly (at least to someone who knows the definition).

      It's the same sort of error as saying "PIN number", which expands to "Personal Identification Number number". It's easy to understand why someone who doesn't understand the term might say something like this. But in both cases, saying such things just makes you sound ignorant of the term's meaning.

      There are lots of technical terms what are used incorrectly in this fashion. Maybe others will post their favorites ...

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    13. Re:Get a real unit. by enoz · · Score: 3, Funny

      There are people that still do orienteering in this day and age? Wow, I thought they were all doing geo(c)hashing now.

    14. Re:Get a real unit. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought I was only six degrees away from Kevin Bacon?

      I thought it was Kelvin bakin'.

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    15. Re:Get a real unit. by perbert · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not if there's a farmer with a shotgun!

    16. Re:Get a real unit. by sznupi · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, kelvin is defined as 1/273,16 of the difference between absolute zero and triple point of water. This definition does mean that 1 K increment has the same magnitude as 1 Celsius degree increment, but it isn't defined by it.

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  2. Shameless karma whore by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's 21C for anyone living in the 21st century.

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    1. Re:Shameless karma whore by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's 21C for anyone living in the 21st century.

      That's 294.15K for anyone who has (somewhat at least) overcome an infantile obsession with water.

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    2. Re:Shameless karma whore by halivar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Celsius is based on water temperature, and Fahrenheit is based on alcohol temperature. Ergo, Fahrenheit is WAY better than Celsius. QED.

    3. Re:Shameless karma whore by Atzanteol · · Score: 4, Funny
      And 529.67 rankine for those of us who are simply better looking.

      But seriously, when did Fahrenheit stop working?

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    4. Re:Shameless karma whore by RoverDaddy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Considering how much of my body happens to be water, I don't consider it an infantile obsession. Some people have an infantile obsession with making water, but that's something different.

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    5. Re:Shameless karma whore by evdubs · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uhh.. no it isn't. According to wikipedia, there are three "standard" temperatures you can use to calibrate your thermometer for a Fahrenheit scale.

      1) 0F - the stable temperature of ice, water, and NH_4Cl
      2) 32F - where water freezes
      3) 96F - average body temperature

      Alcohol is not used anywhere.

    6. Re:Shameless karma whore by Bandman · · Score: 4, Funny

      And in somewhat less than 10 comments, this has become a pee thread.

      Nice job. /sigh

    7. Re:Shameless karma whore by johannesg · · Score: 5, Funny

      But seriously, when did Fahrenheit stop working? He passed away in 1736. It is likely that he stopped working some time before that point, although we cannot be sure that he didn't die at his desk.
    8. Re:Shameless karma whore by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's got nothing to do with getting upset. It's about sheer convenience. In large swathes of the World the metric system has been the only system taught for decades and this is an internationally read website which has (I suspect) a demographic bias towards younger people. Providing temperatures in a system that large portions of its readers may not know off the top of their head seems silly and unncessary when all that was needed was a "70F (21C)" to save potentially some x thousand readers have to go Google it or, God forbid, read the article.

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    9. Re:Shameless karma whore by mordenkhai · · Score: 5, Funny

      I believe he is referring to the fact that alcohol was used, in large quantities, by the researchers while coming up with the system. In that regard it is heavily based on alcohol, and Cheetos too if memory serves, but there is again no Wiki reference.

    10. Re:Shameless karma whore by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And 529.67 rankine for those of us who are simply better looking.

      But seriously, when did Fahrenheit stop working?

      About the same time that furlongs per fortnight ceased to be a useful measure of speed.

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    11. Re:Shameless karma whore by Daimanta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "3) 96F - average body temperature"

      That's nuts! An AVERAGE temperature to calibrate a thermometer? That's the same thing as calibrating my speedometer in my car to the average speed of a laden swallow.

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    12. Re:Shameless karma whore by Xaroth · · Score: 5, Funny

      My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

    13. Re:Shameless karma whore by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 4, Funny

      And it's 1.22 radians, for anyone who thought "a cool 70 degrees" meant a rakish angle.

    14. Re:Shameless karma whore by TheBig1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      African or European?

    15. Re:Shameless karma whore by 4D6963 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "3) 96F - average body temperature"

      That's nuts! An AVERAGE temperature to calibrate a thermometer? That's the same thing as calibrating my speedometer in my car to the average speed of a laden swallow. Reminds me that when the metre was created it was so that the Earth's circumference would be 40,000,000 metres. And since then we measure the Earth's circumference in metres (well, kilometres), and it's not 40,000,000. Go figure..
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    16. Re:Shameless karma whore by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The third largest nation in the world (by population) still uses Fahrenheit. I wouldn't consider that quite in the same league.

      Which is another way of saying 'less than 5% of the population of the world still uses Fahrenheit'. Looked at that way I'd assert it's in exactly the same league, or, indeed, the same 5.560 kilometres.

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    17. Re:Shameless karma whore by Myrddin+Wyllt · · Score: 3, Funny
      In the immortal words of the sea-captain in Blackadder:

      "Opinion is divided on the subject - I say it is; everyone else says it isn't."

      (OK, not everyone, Burma and Libya are still holding out as well)

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    18. Re:Shameless karma whore by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Informative

      You know, even a ship does better than that I think, that is about 10 feet per gallon.

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    19. Re:Shameless karma whore by sYkSh0n3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      ha, even my truck gets 400,000 rods to the hogshead.

      Actually that's the unit used car dealers should use.

      "Oh you definitely want this new hummer, it gets 262,080 rods per hogshead."

      ok, now i'm going home, i just wasted 5 minutes converting mpg's to rph's for no reason what-so-ever.

    20. Re:Shameless karma whore by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Latest System? Are you daft? Celsius has been the standard for science and, well, everywhere except the US, for a long time. Just because the US has been staunchly ignoring the rest of the world's units and measures doesn't mean that it's this newfangled temperature scale only commies and Jews use.

    21. Re:Shameless karma whore by meowsqueak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you missed the point - Fahrenheit, Celsius, Kelvin, it doesn't matter. What matters is that the unit is *specified* correctly. A 'degree' unit is a 360th of a single complete angular rotation. Obviously a 'degree C' or 'degree F' is completely different.

      There's nothing wrong with specifying a non-standard unit, as long as it's specified accurately. Doing conversions is all part of the fun.

    22. Re:Shameless karma whore by jc42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since when was normal body temp 96F? Google-sama tell me it's 98.6F.

      Except that that .6 is bogus precision. The "normal" core temperature of a healthy human body varies by a degree or two over the course of a day without any harm. Attempts to calculate an average temperature of a crowd of humans will turn out different in the third decimal place depending on which humans and which measuring tools you use.

      The conventional 98.6F temperature comes from converting 37C to Fahrenheit. The 37C temperature is also "plus or minus a degree or so", but it doesn't have fake precision from a third digit.

      98F and 99F are completely normal temperatures for a human body, and are no cause for medical alarm. The .6 is a meaningless artifact of conversion from Celsius.

      96F would produce a mildly worried look on your doctor's face, though it wouldn't result in a panic.

      Similarly, I once registered 101 point something on a doctor's thermometer, and he just asked me what I'd been doing in the previous hour. I told him that I'd been playing tennis and had a hot shower. He just nodded, and went on to other things, since I'd explained the slightly elevated temperature. He did take my temperature again 10 or 15 minutes later, and when it was lower, he ignored it.

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    23. Re:Shameless karma whore by rocketPack · · Score: 5, Informative
      The parent is not kidding:
      40 rods = 0.125miles
      1 hogshead = 63 U.S. Gallons
      So... ((0.125miles)*5280ft/mi)/63 gallons=10.476 feet per gallon

      GP must drive a Hummer... perhaps only in reverse, like Mother Goose.

    24. Re:Shameless karma whore by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 5, Informative

      And that's why an American paper should be using the metric system? Because the 95% of the world that's not in America is too stupid to realize that it's an American publication writing to an American audience using the units of measure in use in America? Errrrr... hate to tell you this, but the journal in question is Nature. Published by Macmillan Publishers Ltd, a British company owned by a German group, for an international audience.
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    25. Re:Shameless karma whore by pjt33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Major scientific journals are not written for "an American audience" but for an international audience. But this is a total red herring anyway, because if you RTFA you'll find that it uses centigrade.

    26. Re:Shameless karma whore by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The worst part is the article says "21 C" - meaning the guy who submitted this had to do extra work to make it that way.

      =Smidge=

    27. Re:Shameless karma whore by zeromorph · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...Celsius has been the standard for science and, well, everywhere except the US, for a long time...

      You forgot ... Belize!

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    28. Re:Shameless karma whore by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think I'd call it a minority. It's supposed to be an international system of measures. At this point, I'd call said country rather backwards. Especially considering you can't even walk into a science classroom in any university in the US and use the imperial system. SI is the way of science, and the way of the world, except for the US - a paltry 300 million people who are falling behind the rest of the world.

    29. Re:Shameless karma whore by Z34107 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Serves the rest of the world for ignoring furlongs per fortnight.

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    30. Re:Shameless karma whore by bloobloo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because "In accordance with various Federal Acts, the Code of Federal Regulations, and Executive Order 12770 (see Preface), it is NIST policy that the SI shall be used in all NIST publications. "

      http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/sec02.html

    31. Re:Shameless karma whore by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's all fun and game until one loses the probe because you can't agree what unit to use.

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    32. Re:Shameless karma whore by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 4, Funny

      Celsius used in science. News at 11. Also, a special report on the water falling problem: Is the sky leaking or is God crying?

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    33. Re:Shameless karma whore by schon · · Score: 2, Funny

      GP must drive a Hummer Either that, or you need to brush up on your pop culture references. :)
    34. Re:Shameless karma whore by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But seriously, when did Fahrenheit stop working?

      Evidently, you don't have a passport. In the rest of the world, Fahrenheit is about as commonly used as the cubit.

    35. Re:Shameless karma whore by 4D6963 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, Earth's circumference was measured first, and the metre based on the result. Well of course, what else do you suggest I was claiming? That the metre was defined first, that it was decided that the Earth's circumference would be 40,000,000 metres and that they would squeeze the planet so that it would fit?
      --
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    36. Re:Shameless karma whore by cjb658 · · Score: 3, Funny

      We use the metric system in the US, sometimes.

    37. Re:Shameless karma whore by cjb658 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually that's the unit used car dealers should use. Also condom manufacturers.
    38. Re:Shameless karma whore by cnaumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are missing the elegance and simplicity of using ice water and body temperature to calibrate thermometers. In the 18th century, every thermometer was hand calibrated. Plunge the thermometer into a vat of ice water and make a mark. Plunge the thermometer into your body, make another mark. If you are using ancillary temperature (under the arm) rather than oral or rectal temperature (and really, where would you rather stick that thermometer?), 96 is pretty close. Make 64 evenly spaced marks between the two marks by subdividing by 2 six times. Why not use the boiling point of water? The simple answer is that it is too hot. You would end up with a thermometer unsuitable for measuring outdoor temperatures in a fancy garden, which I imagine were the most profitable sales of the thermometers.

      Notice that 32 is also a power of two, and that there are 180 degrees between the boiling point of water and the freezing point.

    39. Re:Shameless karma whore by Ironlenny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I live in the 20th century, you insensitive clod!

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    40. Re:Shameless karma whore by rossdee · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it was meant to be related to the circumference of the earth, going around the poles, and passing through Paris (since it was invented by the French) I think they werent aware of the amount of oblateness the earth had, so they got it wrong. They then decided it was to be 'the length of a bar of platinum, in some vault in Paris) since they didnt want to redefine not just the metre, but all the derived units. Nowdays of course it is defined based on some wavelength of light (in a particular atomic reaction or something, just like the second.

    41. Re:Shameless karma whore by Llanfairpwllgwyngyll · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know, even a ship does better than that I think, that is about 10 feet per gallon. I run my ship on wood from old ships. I get 10 miles per *galleon* ;-)

    42. Re:Shameless karma whore by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, when you're buying crack. ;)

    43. Re:Shameless karma whore by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Which is another way of saying 'less than 5% of the population of the world still uses Fahrenheit'.
      It's also another way of saying:
      'More than 75% of native English speakers use Fahrenheit'.
      'Almost 66% of fluent English speakers use Fahrenheit'.
      'About 50% of all Internet users (any language) use Fahrenheit'. I see that as well as not teaching standard units in American schools, they also don't teach basic arithmetic.
      • The US has 304 million people, the UK 60, South Africa 47, Canada 33, Australia 21. None of these countries are entirely native English speaking, of course, but many other countries have substantial English-speaking minorities. Only 215 million Americans have English as their first language. Over all, fewer than 70% of the world's native English speakers, and fewer than 30% of the world's fluent English speakers, live in the US.
      • Slitly fewer than one and a half thousand million people use the Internet, of whom fewer than two hundred anf fifty million are in the US. Therefore US Internet users make up 17.5% of Internet users

      Of course, the US isn't the only country in the world still to use Fahrenheit. There's also Belize.

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    44. Re:Shameless karma whore by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

      In the rest of the world, Fahrenheit is about as commonly used as the cubit. I had a companion cubit, but I tossed it into the fire. :(

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    45. Re:Shameless karma whore by Jesus_666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      In 451.

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  3. Why are plants green? by Verteiron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Since I can't read the article, I'll speculate wildly. I've often wondered why chlorophyll isn't black for maximum sunlight absorption. The impression I get from the paragraph of the article that I can read without paying for it is that leaves maintain the optimum temperature for photosynthesis. Is green perhaps the easiest color to manufacture that will keep the leaves at the right temperature, even in full sunlight? That would explain why green was selected over other colors despite the fact that it's reflecting away a huge percentage of the sun's light.

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    1. Re:Why are plants green? by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Since I can't read the article, I'll speculate wildly. I've often wondered why chlorophyll isn't black for maximum sunlight absorption.

      I'd imagine that the range of structures that can produce chlorophyll-like function is constrained, and that such structures with broader absorption either aren't possible or aren't evolutionarily reachable.

    2. Re:Why are plants green? by solanum · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mod parent down. This is absolute rubbish, how did it get to +5 informative? I assume it's there as a joke so it should only be +5 funny, or possibly now, +5 fooled Slashdot. I am a plant physiologist, there are three basic types of chlorophyll in land plants, a,b & c. They have slightly different spectra, but they are not blue and yellow, they all have minimal absorbance in the green part of the spectrum and thus look green. The yellows and reds in senescing leaves are from carotenoids and anthocyanins.

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    3. Re:Why are plants green? by postglock · · Score: 5, Informative
      The green colour of chlorophyll relates to the historical precursors to the first photosynthetic organisms. Originally (a few billion years ago), early bacteria were non-photosynthetic, fermenting carbon anaerobically. This rapidly depleted the primordial "soup." The first organisms to utilise light (something akin to Halobacterium halobium) used a pigment called bacteriorhodopsin to help its metabolism. Bacteriorhodopsin absorbs a central band of visible light.

      The evolution of chlorophyll followed (perhaps in Cyanobacteria) in organisms at the bottom of the sea. These were the first organisms to fix carbon dioxide. Being at the bottom of the ocean, only the far bands of visible light were available to them (blue and red), and hence green chlorophyll evolved.

      Since then, accessory pigments have also evolved (e.g. phycobiliproteins), which have reclaimed other parts of the visible spectrum, and changed the colour of the plants or algae.

  4. Or in Celsius by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's about 21.11 degrees Celsius.

    Americans really need to start using the metric system. Honestly, it really is worth the effort to switch.

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    1. Re:Or in Celsius by moore.dustin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Obviously not.

    2. Re:Or in Celsius by bucky0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Honestly, it really is worth the effort to switch.

      Really? I'm a physicist and spend all my professional time working in m/s/kg units, but outside of that, what does it matter? We changed over the easier things, but the bit that's left (espcially feet/inches) don't justify the amount it would cost us to retool everything to use metric.

      I never did get the obsession other people have with the units we use in the states.

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    3. Re:Or in Celsius by Applekid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I never did get the obsession other people have with the units we use in the states. It's merely a point of contention for the "we're right, you're wrong" nationalistic crowd. Same with dates: MM/DD/YYYY, DD-MM-YYYY, YYYY.MM.DD, so on and so on.

      I'm sure a war or two has been fought over whether toilet paper should be hung in the proper overhand fashion or the grotesque underhand abomination.
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    4. Re:Or in Celsius by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Celsius is too wussy for climates with real weather.

      'Round here 32F can be shorts, t-shirt and sandal weather. OC just sounds too cold for such a warm day.

      Sure, eventually Celsius catches up but that point tends to fall outside of standard human operational temperature range. When I lived in Finland, in winter the temps were frequently -35. That's Celsius and Fahrenheit; it didn't matter.
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    5. Re:Or in Celsius by vajaradakini · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, clearly everything runs smoothly when people work in different units. Nothing could ever go wrong. Nobody could spend millions on a probe only to smash it into a planet instead, right?

      Sometimes it's worth an inconvenience...

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    6. Re:Or in Celsius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because it makes it very difficult to communicate things like that with Americans. How would you like it if you did a lot of business with Europe, but they still used cartwheels, furlongs, leagues, and all that stuff? The problem is communication. The rest of the world has seen value in the metric system and switched. But we have a huge problem in a very large country refuses to switch, necessitating the need to artificially extend the life of an archaic system of units.

      And for the record, I'm Canadian, living in the US. I STILL haven't gotten a feel for American units, but I'm getting a little better at doing the conversions in my head. That being said, I had no idea what 70F was until googling it.

    7. Re:Or in Celsius by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      YYYY-MM-DD(ISO 8601) is the only correct format. When you specify dates in that format, you can sort things chronologically simply by sorting them alphanumerically.

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    8. Re:Or in Celsius by halsver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given that this is a scientific article, I'd imagine Celsius would be more appropriate.
      For daily living, where during the course of a day the temperature changes less than 30 degrees Fahrenheit from morning to night. Would I rather see the temperature change in smaller increments or larger ones? In casual conversation do we really need to go into decimal points describing something?
      Temperature and a person's dimensions are in my opinion better in imperial measure. Someone who is 1.82 meters tall and someone who is 1.80 are about the same, but in America one of them is 6ft and one of them is 5' 11". I'll bet the person who is 5'11" rounds up all the time, but does the person who is 1.80? To me the significance of the information is lost with the metric measure, I supposed if you grow up with it works for you.

      --
      Roughly half my comments are never submitted. You may be reading the better half...
    9. Re:Or in Celsius by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We buy our milk in gallon jugs, but our soda in 2-liter bottles. However, if you buy soda in quantities less than 1 liter, the measurements switch over to ounces. Every ruler/tape measure/etc. I have had for the past 30 years has been dual-marked with inches and centimeters. Our toilets and urinals are marked "1 gallon / 3.8 liters per flush", and our speedometers are marked in both mph and kph. Engine displacement on new vehicles is noted in liters, while engine displacement on older muscle cars is still noted in cubic inches (as it should be). I have a socket wrench set that includes english and metric sockets.

      So, we've been doing pretty well working with both at the same time for years. You mean to say the rest of the world can't keep up? ;)

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    10. Re:Or in Celsius by maglor_83 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I notice England doesn't get a lot of crap over it's Pints. That's cos its used for beer. And you just don't mess with a man's beer.
    11. Re:Or in Celsius by maglor_83 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not quite. -40 is the convergence point

    12. Re:Or in Celsius by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hanging toilet paper over the top has no benefit except to make the foldy triangle look nice in hotel rooms.
      It's actually a pain because when you go to tear some off with one hand you have to be quick and nimble to keep the paper from spooling out all over the place.

      Hanging it under is far more practical. You can tear if it off with one hand very easily without having the paper unspool 7 yards of itself onto the floor.

      Hang it under.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    13. Re:Or in Celsius by eloki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm Australian, and I think it's just another one of those things where the size/dominance of the US is annoying to the rest of the world because it is different *and gets away with it*.

      We've all converted to metric but the US refuses the change. That's partly understandable due to the cost/effort, but it means that the rest of the world forever more has to convert units to talk to them. Effectively they're making more work for everyone, and don't seem to care. When you think about it, in many social situations it's considered a bit rude to needlessly make work for other people.

      The other aspect of this is that many Americans either don't know, remember or care about foreigners using a different unit systems, so even when they mention things like "it was 96 degrees outside today!" they don't bother offering a conversion or even a "sorry, don't know what that is in Celsius".

      Okay this post is a lot longer than I intended; it's not really that annoying in the big scheme of things, but you asked why it annoys people so I'm explaining why it irritates me. No biggie.

    14. Re:Or in Celsius by Pennidren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The rest of the world really needs to start using only English. Honestly, it really is worth the effort to switch.

    15. Re:Or in Celsius by colenski · · Score: 2, Informative

      Commercial and military aviators seem to think so.

    16. Re:Or in Celsius by Clandestine_Blaze · · Score: 2, Funny

      I use leaves you insensitive clod!

      (Hey, this joke is actually on-topic! :D)

    17. Re:Or in Celsius by Andrew_T366 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm generally in favor of metrication and the use of metric units, but the issue of temperature is a key exception. The Fahrenheit scale is more precise, and its zero-to-100 degree range more realistically covers the spectrum of what one would typically see on a weather report.

      I sometimes wonder why Celsius is considered a metric measure to begin with: It predates the advent of the modern metric system itself. Its zero-degree reference point is just as arbitrary as Fahrenheit's in the big scheme of things. And, the measure doesn't employ metric prefixes (although I suppose they could conceivably be appropriated for the purpose).

    18. Re:Or in Celsius by teh+kurisu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree, it's quite useful on a weather report to be able to communicate easily what side of freezing the temperature is. It's not arbitrary when it means potentially hazardous road conditions, or the need to leave the heating on low to prevent the pipes from freezing.

    19. Re:Or in Celsius by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Again, for those not paying attention: precision has not always equaled utility.

      1) the Imperial measures are far more human-friendly than metric. Metric is WONDERFUL in a computer-driven world, but for everyday measures, a number of imperial systems are much more practical:
                a) Temperature: Fahrenheit based his temperatures on a likely-to-be-experienced-by-people scale. Since he was in Copenhagen, this meant typically 0-100. Humans don't really care about precise temps, so the greater precision of Fahrenheit is meaningless, it just suits human penchant for round numbers. (FWIW, Celsius *did* originally arrange his system in reverse, with water freezing at 100 and boiling at 0...)
                b) linear: again, for the bulk of human history, utility has NOT been measured by decimals, but by simple calculation. The foot, divided into 12 subunits (each, conveniently for a carpenter, about a male thumb-width), is (integer) divisible by 12, 6, 4, 3, 2, and 1. The larger unit of a yard (~1m) is integer divisible by 36, 18, 12, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, and 1. Decimals, on the other hand, are divisible by 10, 5, 2, and 1. Certainly, large maths are much more easily worked in metric measures, but again, in typical parlance, humans don't use large maths when they don't have to - we don't measure soccer fields in mm, for example.

      As far as American usage is concerned, it's already been stated: US citizens have routinely and widely switched to SI units for anything that matters. I work in logistics, and am routinely converting from cubic inches to cbm, from lbs to metric tons, etc. No big deal - but for some reason the REST of the world feels entitled to complain about what units WE use? I genuinely don't get that. Do Americans get to complain that Egyptians speak Egyptian, because it makes it harder for us to do business in Egypt? I don't think so.

      And for the snide comments about the unit-conversion causing the loss of a Mars probe...well, at least we're a technologically-successful-enough state that we're tossing probes at Mars, despite our "imperial units handicap"....
      According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars#Mars_Curse, there have been 43 missions to Mars, 20 by the 'benighted' Americans, and 23 by other nations presumably not hobbled by their attachment to an archaic system of measures.
      American success rate is running at 70%.
      "Other" success rate is running at just over 30%, depending on how you count it.
      Perhaps you guys should try Imperial measures? Maybe that might work better?

      --
      -Styopa
  5. pretty thin science... by MollyB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The first link is to a subscription-only site.
    The second contains "warm" and fuzzy quotes like the following:
    "Trees in chilly climates also have ways to make their leaves or needles retain more heat from the sun. Pine needles, for example, clump together. Think of gloves and mittens, Helliker says. If you're wearing gloves, wind can easily whip heat away from your individual fingers, leaving you cold. But if your fingers are all together in a mitten, they're going to be warmer.

    Richter says the discovery isn't just fascinating science. It gives her a special kinship with trees.

    On a recent day in Philadelphia when the mercury was near 100 degrees, she said, "I was staring at a hickory tree and its leaves were down â" they had wilted," she says. "And I was thinking, hey, it's hot, I'm hot. They enjoy 70 degrees, and I enjoy 70 degrees, too.""

    A special kinship with trees?!? How did this make it to Nature?

    1. Re:pretty thin science... by philspear · · Score: 2, Informative

      A special kinship with trees?!? How did this make it to Nature?

      It didn't, it made it into NPR.

      The abstract for the nature article:

      The oxygen isotope ratio (18O) of cellulose is thought to provide a record of ambient temperature and relative humidity during periods of carbon assimilation1, 2. Here we introduce a method to resolve tree-canopy leaf temperature with the use of 18O of cellulose in 39 tree species. We show a remarkably constant leaf temperature of 21.4 2.2 C across 50 of latitude, from subtropical to boreal biomes. This means that when carbon assimilation is maximal, the physiological and morphological properties of tree branches serve to raise leaf temperature above air temperature to a much greater extent in more northern latitudes. A main assumption underlying the use of 18O to reconstruct climate history is that the temperature and relative humidity of an actively photosynthesizing leaf are the same as those of the surrounding air3, 4. Our data are contrary to that assumption and show that plant physiological ecology must be considered when reconstructing climate through isotope analysis. Furthermore, our results may explain why climate has only a modest effect on leaf economic traits5 in general.

      So it made it into Nature because their results challenge an apperantly widely held assumption used in determining global warming... I think? I'm no ecologist/arborologist/whatever science is involved here. But it's actual science.
  6. Son of shameless karma whore by SputnikPanic · · Score: 3, Funny

    The green is reflected. Red and blue are absorbed. Why plants are green

  7. And I grow... by sidnelson13 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... when placed into moist locations. Give me five!

    Ok, no good comes from watching Scrubs.

  8. Hey, I can understand units, but don't mess by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 3, Informative

    with hanging toilet paper! It's over the top, Like it or not! Allways and everywhere unless your some kind of freaking psychopath!

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  9. Humans are 98Â but prefer 72Â by booch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've often wondered why it is that humans prefer air temperatures somewhere around 72Â. It'd seem more reasonable for us to prefer something closer to 98Â. I suppose the temperature differential between the 2 is what's required to keep us at a steady state, dissipating the energy we burn.

    I find it even more remarkable that trees prefer nearly the same temperature that humans do.

    --
    Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    1. Re:Humans are 98Â but prefer 72Â by MHolmesIV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is it remarkable? We live on the same planet...

      Now if trees were from Venus and preferred 70F temperatures, that would be remarkable. What's not remarkable is that both trees and humans prefer an environment they evolved in.

  10. Re:Diploma mills by saskboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't use that M-word around trees. They'll get very nervous hearing that!

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  11. Jesus F Christ by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Jesus F Christ, forget the kinship. The quote about pine needles is just about the most retarded thing I've heard in ages.

    Having lots of thin needles near each other is actually a pretty good heatsink design. No, seriously. Not as good as some ducted designs, and not as cheap to make as shaved copper fins, but nevertheless, if you're going to blow air through it, it gets heat out rather impressively well. Per weight, it has a _lot_ of surface to exchange heat through.

    Evergreens don't "stay warm like fingers in a mitten" in winter, but, among other things, have one or more of the following reasons for what they are:

    1. The needles allow the snow to fall off the trees easier than a broad leaf. (But not all evergreens have needles, btw.)

    2. Many contain chemicals that act, effectively, like anti-freeze. You can't stay warm like fingers in a mitten when you can't produce your own warmth. Your fingers stay warm in a mitten just because they produce their own heat, and the mitten keeps it in. If you were cold blooded, like a tree, even keeping them tight together and even a mitten wouldn't last you all winter. The best you can do is try not to freeze as early.

    But even so, they're photosynthesizing a lot slower in winter, and when the temperature drops enough and that water freezes anyway, not at all.

    3. They grow in areas with less sunlight, warmth and soil nutrients, so they can't afford to just lose the leaves and consume nutrients to make more in spring. So even if temperature drops enough that they do freeze, they keep their leaves because they can't afford to just drop them all and make a new batch later. They keep their needles for _years_.

    4. The thick needles and waxy cover help conserve water. Basically they try to lose as little as possible, among other things, because #2 and because getting more from the ground is a pain in winter anyway.

    So, seriously, this looks to me like the most retarded kind of pseudo-science. The kind that just imagines some fairy-tale explanation. Worse yet, one based on little more than anthropomorphizing the damn trees.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  12. Wrong title by mangu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    TFA should be: "TTrees' Leaves Grow At a Cool 70 in the USA and Myanmar And At a Cool 21 Everywhere Else Where The Middle Ages Have Ended And The Age Of Enlightment Has Arrived", but they ran out of space. Strings in Slashdot have a 120 character limit, you know.

  13. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I grow pot professionally. I know these things. And so does the parent poster.

  14. Base-10 Sucks by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Um, 'cause it's Base-10 and way easier to teach to future generations?

    Base-10 sucks, too few prime divisors.

    The Egyptians figured out children could learn to count in base 12 on their finger knuckles just fine. That way we won't have to start navigating in radians to get to your base-10 nirvana.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  15. US is officially metric by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's just the transition time is taking a bit longer than expected.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  16. It is... by msauve · · Score: 2, Informative

    "degree Rankine", same as "degree Celcius," "degree centigrade," and "degree Fahrenheit." Kelvin is the odd man out.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  17. MOD parent up by Elky+Elk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the 1 Kelvin just happens to about 1 degree C but the definitions are indpendent