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Twilight Hack Defeats Wii Menu Update 3.3

Posted by kdawson on from the say-goodnight-gracie dept.

Croakyvoice writes "Only days after Nintendo shipped Wii Menu 3.3, which stopped the Twilight Hack from working, the team lead by Bushing brought out a new version of the Homebrew enabling hack for the Nintendo Wii using the Zelda Game and a hacked save game."

56 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. open works better by drDugan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    when will these companies get it - if done well, open systems work better in a globally connected world.

    billions of monkeys typing on computers will inevitably create a small handful that can and will consistently break your closed source world.

    1. Re:open works better by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd have to say Nintendo has the entire open source world beat hands down so far as gaming is concerned.

    2. Re:open works better by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, due to decades of contentious lawsuits and complaints from cranky customers, companies have been forced to lock down their hardware to make sure that there are really no variables that exist in the system that could disturb the lowest common denominator consumer. Yes, it would be nice if everything we bought was unlocked, open, hackable, and mod-able to the nth degree, but that also opens the door to the one thing that no mainstream consumer will accept - instability. The average person buying some sort of tech gizmo would run screaming for the hills if there was a sticker on the box that said "Now look, there is a *ton* of potential in your new Swankbox 32X, but occasionally it's going to go down when we try something new. You'll just have to deal with it, but we swear that when it comes back up it'll just be AWESOME!"

      How bad would it be if someone hacked / modded your amazing new console / hdtv / gizmo and added a feature that made it the absolutely kick-ass, must-have item of the year... *but* there was a bit of legwork involved and a 10% chance that you could brick the unit. How many failures would it take before the bad press was enough to sink you?

      The vast majority of the people out there buying stuff just want to pay, plug, and play. That means standards, simplicity, and - unfortunately - lockdown.

    3. Re:open works better by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't believe what you just said represents 2 mutually exclusive paths, things can be open and stable at the same time.

      Your lowest common denominator consumer isn't going to be screwing with the system, so the fact that its open and not locked doesn't affect them, certainly it won't suddenly make their system unstable, remember most people don't hack around in these things.

      The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

    4. Re:open works better by dissy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The vast majority of the people out there buying stuff just want to pay, plug, and play. That means standards, simplicity, and - unfortunately - lockdown. I have to call bullshit and a half on this line of reasoning.

      Lets go with a famous slashdot car analogy, that happens to fit perfectly well.

      My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has.
      I personally however am not mechanically inclined enough to do much more than check fluids in my car. I *do* take it to a mechanic to have it worked on. I am like your wii's lowest common denominator except for cars.

      Now, add lock down. A special key is required to open the hood. Only the dealers have these keys.
      Suddenly, every single person that liked tinkering under the hood is screwed. They have to resort to quasi-legal methods to do with their property as they wish. Those people know better than to call the dealer expecting a replacement when they know it was them monkeying with it that broke it.

      I however am not affected by this change. My car still runs, and the procedure is basically the same, other than I have to go to the original dealer and get raped by their 10x higher prices, but since my usual mechanic wont have the key, i get screwed too in a way.

      Leaving the wii unlocked to modding can't possibly effect the people who will not be modding it!
      It only prevents those of us who want to do with our property as we wish, from being able to do so.

    5. Re:open works better by Brigade · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow .. you just described my absolute hatred of Apple and their philosophy.

      What you have here is two distict, yet separate groups:

      The idiot-proof, lowest-common-denominator, who wants things to work (and simply).
      The more adventurous, possibly more knowledgeable individuals who like options.

      I will NEVER purchase an iAnything. Why? Because I like to tweak, tinker, and have options. That's why I have an 8GB Nokia that uses a standard USB port to talk to any computer (and the phone says "What do you want me to be? A USB HDD? Maybe Sync with your phone software? How about a normal MP3 player?"), a Creative Zen for MP3s/Videos on the go, and a PC.

      The problem with a locked-down, "Do it our way only" philosophy is it encourages laziness and contentment. How many of us got curious, or felt adventurous enough, to tinker with something technological (broken or not) just to figure out how it works (or even make it better or more suited to our needs)? Which, through trial and error, only encouraged us to venture out further and learn even more when our curiousity was piqued? If we never had the oportunity to break something or toy with the horizons on our own, we'd never be as knowledgeable in a technological fashion as we are. (Referring here to fellow /.'ers).

    6. Re:open works better by LS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no idea how this got modded insightful. Saying that opening a system makes it unstable is like saying that removed locks from the doors of a house will make it fall down. The stability of a system is correlated with its quality, not whether it is open or not.

      LS

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    7. Re:open works better by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fitting in with your sig the popular and good opensource games seem to come mostly in the former-commercial or clone-of-commercial flavours.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    8. Re:open works better by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Informative

      No it doesn't. It has a lame 'Other OS' mode that runs in a hypervisor with no access to the graphics acceleration and only limited access to the processors.

      The PS3 itself is so locked down nobody has actually managed 'homebrew' on it yet.

    9. Re:open works better by krischik · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wow .. you just described my absolute hatred of Apple and their philosophy.

      I will NEVER purchase an iAnything. Why? Because I like to tweak, tinker, and have options.

      With most of what you say. But there is an exception: for the iMac it's not valid. The iMac is great for tweaking and tinkering. Better then a windows PC. All you need is opening Terminal.app and take it from there.

      And what most users never notice: Apple isn't actualy against it, read:

      http://developer.apple.com/opensource/overview.html

      Of couse the MacPro is ever better for tinkering - but then there is no 'i' in it's name...

      Martin

    10. Re:open works better by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Informative

      The interesting thing is that modchips work in a completely different way, so these fixes don't really affect them. None of the current homebrew hacks/etc have anything to do with modchips or let people use pirated disc-based games.

      As for VC/WiiWare piracy, it's true that the Homebrew Channel requires the same installation methods as hacked VC/WiiWare games, and both look the same to the system (unsigned channels). However, if Nintendo released an officially signed Homebrew Channel, we wouldn't have to worry about installing unsigned code any more. Then they could fix the unsigned channel bug, therefore killing VC/WiiWare piracy, and we wouldn't have to work around the fix (thus indirectly letting the pirates use it too). Pirate VC games are rather hard to run as "homebrew", because they want to read their data as channel contents.

    11. Re:open works better by Dragonslicer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has. Because your car requires maintenance every few months that involves opening the hood. If a Wii needed a refill on magic smoke every three months, you'd have an opening in the box so that you could get to the magic smoke tank.
    12. Re:open works better by ultranova · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm all for open sourcing stuff, but the business model of consoles is all about having a closed platform so you can keep piracy to a minimum.

      It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with getting license fees from everyone who develops software for the console.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    13. Re:open works better by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It also wouldn't mean more illegal copies. Mr. Average doesn't "mod" his console for the same reason he buys his games: It's easier, more convenient and doesn't require technical knowledge.

      All you'd have to do is make sure that playing illegal copies requires you to know what you're doing and make it nontrivial to do. The reason why there is a market for game copies on the PC is that it's convenient (due to copy restrictions and "CD must be in the drive" crap, often more convenient than using the original).

      Now, it doesn't get more convenient on a console than using an original. Slip in the CD and play. Since there is no install part, even the CD requirement isn't a deterrent.

      OTOH, don't forget that most console manufacturers earn a sizable portion of their income from licensing fees to those that want to produce for their consoles. I doubt they'd readily drop this source of income.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:open works better by xtracto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

      It is funny to read comments in slashdot where people is talking out of their asses.

      The "real push" has nothing to do with preventing piracy. The Twilight patch does *not* provide a way to play pirate Wii titles (so called "back-ups"), the way to accomplish that is witi a mod chip (which interfaces with the disk drive).

      Therefore, the upgrade did not prevented "back-ups" from being played. It just tried to prevent the execution of the Zelda exploit.

      That was a very specific attack against homebrew, given that even after upgrading, you can continue to play your "back-ups" if you have a mod-chip

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    15. Re:open works better by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, I don't own a PS3 and never will.

      In the battle between curiosity (will it mod?) and integrity (it's a Sony), integrity won.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:open works better by v1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was to the mechanic last week to get my engine checked out. The check engine light was on and I had no idea why. It didn't really tell them much either.

      So they hooked it up to a "computer". (little handheld diagnostic gadget with small LCD display) Many of us that have taken our vehicles in for service have had to "hook it up to the computer" to see why the idiot light is on.

      It told him there were one of three problems, the main one of which was going to require tearing the truck to pieces to get at a sensor, and since it only MIGHT affect my gas mileage, it wasn't worth it and I'm just going to live with the light, it's an old truck.

      But he said that the computer itself was 20 grand, and the modules that he had to plug into it to check my vehicle, were $500 apiece. (there were two, any vehicle takes a particular combination of the two, one to read the sensors and one to interpret the output) He also told me that this was the last time the company was going to make modules for it, that the next iteration he was going to have to upgrade the computer (another 20 grand) but was very thankful that the modules were going away and it was instead only going to cost $200-300 each for downloads to upgrade the two parts of the tool.

      So in much the same respect, Ford holds a lockdown on my truck, that I can't diagnose it without someone paying an unreasonable amount to do so. I don't have to take it to the dealer, there are mechanics with The Computer too, but it's not like I can have one of my own. He gets $40 every time he hooks someone up to The Computer, to defray the cost of the computer and its modules. That's $40 I really shouldn't have to pay, it should tell me what's wrong, or be a reasonably easy output. (gimme a serial cable with serial out, or on something newer, let me ssh in) Or on some vehicles you get a flashing series of lights. Or how expensive would it be to simply have a 3 digit LED display to give me a number, and have a table in the back of the owner's manual to look up the number? But no they're very happy to charge someone a ridiculous amount for that privilege and so that cost is passed on to me.

      I also know someone that reprograms ECUs for street racing ("ricer") cars. He has to disassemble the source code on the new ECUs to figure out what they're doing, to modify them to fit the customers' needs.

      There are many examples of lock-down in vehicles.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    17. Re:open works better by PCPackrat · · Score: 5, Informative

      This isn't lockdown. There are many tools available to read the diag codes from your car. His $20,000 tool and 2 modules covers most vehicles. But as an end user, you can buy a scan tool exclusively for your vehicle for under $300. If your vehicle is 96 or newer then it's OBDII and the tools are even cheaper as they have standardized the language cars speak.

    18. Re:open works better by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it has everything to do with piracy, because the cruel reality is that no matter how good the intentions of the homebrew hackers are, 99% of the people that use their hacks are only interested in piracy.

    19. Re:open works better by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't normally comment on people's sigs, but since you brought it up, his sig is actually kinda stupid.

      Suppose I have a friend who constantly harps on how he can fix anything on his own car and how everyone should learn how to perform regular maintenance on their own cars and save themselves money at service stations for things they could do themselves. He does this for years, constantly harping on it. And then one day, we discover he can't even change his own oil. I myself don't change my own oil, so is it ironic that I give him heck over it? Not really. I don't change my own oil, but I never said I did. He was the one always claiming it's what made him better. Nothing wrong with me decrying his dishonesty merely because I myself don't do what he claimed he was doing.

      Microsoft constantly harps on its innovation, and resists any attempt to enforce the law of the land upon them as restricting their "freedom to innovate". That opens them up for anyone to criticize them on the fact that, in fact, they don't innovate. There's nothing ironic about people who don't innovate decrying someone else's dishonesty on the subject.

      The fact is, both Microsoft and GNU copy ideas they see elsewhere right and left. The difference is, the GNU people are honest about it, as the sig itself acknowledges when it notes that it's their stated goal. Indeed, the GNU people have a philosophy that says this is a good idea -- when someone comes up with a better way of doing things, we should all learn from it and enjoy the benefits of this new idea. The Microsoft people say people shouldn't be allowed to do this. And the irony is, some idiots decry the GNU people for pointing out that Microsoft is doing it anyway, doing exactly what they're doing, all the while claiming to be "innovative" for doing it and criticizing others for doing the same. That's the real irony.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  2. Score by Plazmid · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hackers- 1 Nintendo- 0

    1. Re:Score by shird · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wouldn't it be:
      Hackers: 2, Nintento: 1

      --
      I.O.U One Sig.
    2. Re:Score by shird · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes - but:

      Hackers defeat Zelda - 1 pt Hackers
      Nintendo defends against hack - 1 pt Nintendo
      Hackers defeat Nintendos defense - 1 pt Hackers

      --
      I.O.U One Sig.
    3. Re:Score by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The crack had to be updated, so Nintendo's patch did work against the attack (the first).

      If you only count a point when Nintendo resists, than you also only count one point for all the versions of the crack.

      So it's either Nintendo 1, Hackers 2 or Nintendo 0, Hackers 1.

    4. Re:Score by puddnhead7 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Naw, it's,

      Hackers: 10, Nintento: 01

  3. Re:wdim by New_Age_Reform_Act · · Score: 5, Informative

    It allows you to run any type of code in the Wii, let's say, Linux.

    --
    "The New Age. The New Beginning."
  4. Re:wdim by MrMage · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, depends on who you ask. Nintendo will tell you it's a massive threat, and while unsigned code can be, it's not likely.

    The attack on the twilight hack was probably brought forth by the new found popularity for the Homebrew Channel, which brings homebrew software to the Wii using masses (Similar to PSP Custom Firmwares or Jail Broke iPhones).

  5. Easter Egg by ProdigySim · · Score: 5, Funny

    Take note of the nice easter egg they left in for Nintendo to find:

    The Twilight Hack Song
    ---------
    This was a triumph.
    I'm making note here:
    HACKED AGAIN.
    It's hard to overstate our satisfaction.

    Team Twiizers
    We do what we must because we can.
    For the good of all of us, except the ones who pirate.
    But there's no sense crying over every quick plug.
    We just keep on trying while there's still one more bug.
    And the homebrew comes back, and we make a neat hack.
    For the people whose Wiis want new life.

    I'm not even angry.
    I'm being so sincere right now.
    Even though they broke the hack and patched it.
    And fixed IOS30.
    And broke every fake signed disc out there.
    As they failed it hurt because...
    They were attacking homebrew!
    Now these quick hack fixes have some beautiful holes,
    So we found them fast and easily met our goals.
    And I'm glad we got burned.
    Think of all the things we learned.
    For the people whose Wiis want new life!

    Go ahead and patch it.
    I think I'd like to have some fun.
    Maybe you'll find an undisclosed bug.
    Maybe that huge one.
    That was a joke, haha, fat chance!
    Anyway, this homebrew's great. It's also legal to use.
    Look at me still talking, when there's hacking to do.
    It might take three months,
    but they'll patch this one too.
    I've experiments to run, there's reversing to be done.
    On the people whose Wiis want new life.

    And believe me the Wiis want new life!
    I'm busy hacking and they want new life.
    I feel FANTASTIC and they'll get new life.
    While you're dying they'll still be alive.
    And when you're dead they'll still have some life.
    STILL ALIVE,

    still alive.

  6. Re:wdim by assassinator42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The build date on the update is March 6, before the Homebrew Channel and before an app to pirate virtual console/WiiWare games was released. If these things influenced their decision to actually release it, I don't know.

  7. It's like Star Wars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    - A New Hack
    - The Big N Strikes Back
    - Return of the Twilight Hack

  8. They now charge for the Internet Channel by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice. There's been some talk about Firefox on the Wii but, as far as I can tell, that's all it is: talk.

    So yeah, buying a Wii (and most every other console) is just buying a pair of handcuffs.

    Hopefully PCs will never ever be this locked down.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by EvolutionsPeak · · Score: 5, Funny

      My gf and I bought a pair of handcuffs last week and I have to say that they are much more fun than my PC.

    2. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will say (and I will say it anonymously, as even the vaguest breath of this opinion is karmic suicide on Slashdot), your sense of entitlement is quite overinflated. You seem to be under the impression that anything with silicon in it must be open to hacking and supported in such a hackable state by the manufacturers . If you can't run $os_of_choice on it for God only knows what reason (you haven't run it enough on your PC?), it is not only Flawed(tm) but immoral.

      Seriously. It's a game console. It's not a $250 shortcut to a PC. Why on earth do you (I mean you, specifically, apparently an ardent PC user) want a web browser on a console? You can't just use a console to play games and a PC to do work?

      And if you ARE one of the elusive homebrewers who actually want to make new games for the Wii (not Yet Another Damned Emulator), you are aware that the Wiimote's had fairly stable drivers for most major operating systems for some time now? I mean, if you actually want to develop for the Wii's unique features, I can get behind that the whole way. It's just that you don't need to hack the Wii to do so.

      Just my opinion. While everyone else is struggling to figure out how to play old games from their past consoles on the Wii (in addition to their PC, XBox360, PS3, etc, etc), I'm having fun playing Wii games on the Wii and doing work on my rather a bit open PC.

    3. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Yosho · · Score: 5, Informative

      For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice. There's been some talk about Firefox on the Wii but, as far as I can tell, that's all it is: talk.

      You realize that Nintendo and Opera have always been perfectly up front and clear about their intentions with this regard, right? They had announced that Opera for the Wii would be free for only a limited time before it was even released.

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    4. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

      For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice.

      And your point is... ? Nintendo and Opera made no secret about the fact that the Internet Channel was going to cost money. The reason why it was free for a time was that the browser was in public beta testing. The early testers had to put up with constant crashes, freezes, corrupted renderings, and a rather primitive user interface. But Opera used the feedback on the browser to create the superior final product. Those who had participated in the beta got to keep the browser at no cost.

      So get your facts straight, eh? You made it sound like they did something evil.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    5. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Assembler · · Score: 2, Informative

      My gf and I bought a pair of handcuffs last week and I have to say that they are much more fun than my PC. ... a very different form of lockdown than what Nintendo is providing
    6. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, for multiplayer games.

    7. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by fyrewulff · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, once you downloaded it's unlocked to that Wii. Forever.

      Apparently a game or two also install it for free.. I've heard Super Paper Mario will install Opera.

      --
      "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
  9. Nintendo's intentions by grantek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, I don't think Nintendo were really serious about "blocking homebrew on the Wii once and for all" with this update. From what I've read the system files were datestamped months ago, implying rigorous testing and a philosophy above all of not bricking any wiis even where the exploit was installed. Given that effort, I don't think they could have been stupid enough to think they were permanently closing anything. I think it's just a token effort to say they disapprove of doing things the non-Nintendo way (a fair enough position if you're proud of your product), and maintaining a healthy level of FUD about third-party code that isn't based on any official API for the wii.

    1. Re:Nintendo's intentions by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wish scores went above 5 so I could've modded this up.
      They said that homebrew save files will be deleted, publicly, prior to providing the update link; they basically said "We're going to eliminate anything that could cause system instability, so if you want to keep it, transfer it to an external device. We really don't want to brick your console." No reasons regarding piracy were given, although they probably express a healthy level of awareness and paranoia about the possibility of homebrew leading to piracy.
      All in all, Nintendo generally seems intelligent about this sort of thing. They're trying to balance the happiness of the power-users and modders with their corporate interests and the possibility of piracy.

    2. Re:Nintendo's intentions by rsmith-mac · · Score: 3, Funny

      Boy I wish Slashdot had a "check for stupid" button, then I wouldn't have written down March 8th; the assumption was March 6th.

    3. Re:Nintendo's intentions by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They said that homebrew save files will be deleted, publicly, prior to providing the update link; they basically said "We're going to eliminate anything that could cause system instability, so if you want to keep it, transfer it to an external device. We really don't want to brick your console." ...All in all, Nintendo generally seems intelligent about this sort of thing. They're trying to balance the happiness of the power-users and modders with their corporate interests

      Nintendo is still keeping in mind what makes the Wii so successful, fun. They know that modding is fun, they know that bricking a console in anti-fun.

      --
      We are all just people.
  10. Fatal flaw by puddnhead7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Only days after Nintendo shipped Wii Menu 3.3, which stopped the Twilight Hack from working, the team lead by Bushing brought out a new version of the Homebrew enabling hack for the Nintendo Wii using the Zelda Game and a hacked save game."

    This tells us that the wii allows content executables to run at a root/system level of elevated privilege.

    No matter what Nintento does, they have no way to remove this security hole in way that would break the massive distribution of popular older software like Zelda.

    The least ineffective solution at Nintendo's disposal would be to only run external executables in an isolated virtual machine.

    Even that would suffer the same flaw. If the virtual machine is sufficient to run a game like Zelda with middling level demanding 3d graphics, it can offer enough resources to run a user provided, OS alternative.

    The only solution I can see would be for Nintendo to implement a hash checking method in addition to VM architecture. The most effective method being copying to local storage before running and then running a hash check independant of the game media.

    I don't know much about wii hardware, but I'm guessing it doesn't have enough storage (or at least storage fast enough to be acceptable for consumer expectation) for this to work.

    So, it doesn't matter what Nintendo does, the wii will forever be a hackable platform.

    1. Re:Fatal flaw by marcansoft · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wii games do run with a separate CPU taking care of security. There's a permissions system. However, said system is broken enough that we have 4 or 5 privilege escalation methods stowed away if we need them. Which means that the only real barrier to hacking the Wii is getting any code to run, which (practically speaking) means exploiting games via savegames. We'll always find one more bug in one more game.

  11. Re:What can you do with this hack? by cigawoot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously. Because a lot of times "homebrew" is merely a code word for "illegally copied games" (oh, wait.. let's call them "backups", yeah.. that sounds much better).

    If it allows you to write your own software for the Wii (is there an SDK publicly available?).. well, then we're talking and this is something to get excited about.

    1) Homebrew doesn't mean "illegally copied games."

    2) There is a sort of crude SDK out there, google it.

    Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

  12. What is the point? by Werrismys · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do ppl insist on hacking PSP, Wii, etc? They are closed platforms. You don't lie closed - just don't buy them. Especially PSP hacking seems troublesome enough to avoid the thing altogether

    --
    'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
    1. Re:What is the point? by BurgEnder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Simple. Even though I know I'll get modded down for saying this - Yes, it does open the door for people to do what they want with what they purchased(running *nix/bsd, or coding your own program for the box) which I agree you should be able to do, but everyone I've ever known who has hacked their console has done it to play pirated/burned game software.

    2. Re:What is the point? by Fross · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because people like modifying things and see what they can make them do. This is the hacker ethic.

      Make your car go faster? Or run on vegetable oil perhaps? Changing your fridge into a computer cooling system? Messing with a synthesizer's innards to get some sounds it never had before? Improving an item by doing something with it the original manufacturers never considered.

      For any reason from souping-up, to making it more envrionmentally friendly, to just off-the-wall crazy, hacking is about repurposing something because it suits you. It's inventing, innovation, creativity. If you can't see the point in these, then you don't understand hacking and I wonder what you're doing here.

      For the Wii and PSP specifically, they are awesome platforms (and unique in their features), which inspire people. They are obviously having ideas for games, or uses for the consoles, that they are not available commercially. These homebrew guys have to work their own way in as the manufacturers have chosen to make dev kits and release methods prohibitively expensive (tens of thousands of dollars), so kudos to them for doing so. I hope they continue to use homebrew to make the next great set of applications and games.

      If you want a comparison of how a manufacturer can get it right, look at what is going to happen with iPhone development over the next 6 months. With a free SDK and cheap way to distribute apps commercially, there will be a LOT of people eager to join in, and Apple will get a ton of apps and even some revenue, from doing this.

      Whether the companies embrace homebrew or not, it will always be there one way or another. They should recognise it as a pool of talent and creativity and allow it the space to grow.

    3. Re:What is the point? by Spad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because it's there.

    4. Re:What is the point? by neumayr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Especially in the case of the PSP there's a lot of incentive to "fix" the firmware.
      Not only do you get a lot more out of that pretty impressive hardware, it also improves its capabilities in regards to its intended purpose - games just load a lot faster from Memory Sticks than from UMD, and not having to power an optical drive improves battery life.

      --
      Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
  13. Re:What can you do with this hack? by yamiyasha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

    How likely are you to buy a VC title when you've already got the ROM file and an emulator running?

    Same as how much I would, if I owned the original cart and the working system
  14. There is no alternative by quadrox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would love to rely on open platforms instead of closed ones. The problem is, they don't exist. Except for the PC and probably some very few mobile/other devices there are no open hardware platforms that I can chose over a closed platform, especially with consoles.

    So obviously I'll take the next best closed platform and hack it. I have no choice, because these companies won't give me a choice.

    The only way to make companies sell open platforms is to complain loudly and hack the current systems in order to show them that we want open platforms, or at least viable open alternatives. Just not doing anything is not going to achieve anything.

  15. Re:What can you do with this hack? by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's set thing straight. So far, homebrew on the Wii is an entirely different playfield from copied games. To play games on DVD-Rs, you need to hardware mod your drive, period.

    Now, when you get to Virtual Console/WiiWare piracy, things get a little muddier. Unfortunately, if you can run homebrew, then you can effectively pirate VC games, because the terribly broken security means that you can pretty much just install them and they'll work. This might change in the future, when Nintendo fixes the problems.

    Our (Team Twiizers') goal is to enable homebrew on the Wii, not piracy. We're not going to go out of our way to prevent piracy, but we also try to come up with methods of running homebrew that don't directly enable piracy. However, we can't work around the fact that, ultimately, if you can run unsigned code, then that code might be a game. We do have the advantage that pirates don't really have much of clue overall (so far), which is why we haven't seen a Wii ISO loader that can run games from an SD card yet. We sure as heck aren't going to write it, but if someone does, there's not much we can do about it.

    As for homebrew, there is certainly a public, free, open source SDK available based on the GNU toolchain and an open source library to access the Wii hardware. In fact, most of the Wii's hardware is supported. Full graphics (though the API is mostly undocumented, it's all there), Wii Remote, SD card access, Gamecube pads, networking (WiFi or ethernet), USB mass storage, partial sound (no hardware acceleration yet), etc. See devkitpro for the toolchain and wiibrew for the community wiki.

  16. Re:grumble grumble grumble by neumayr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have a point, there aren't many homebrew games worth spending ten hours on. I do think there are more than five though.. But I don't think it's because all those hacks are truly intended for piracy, with homebrew just being an alibi.

    Rather, I think it's for the same reason there aren't all that many opensource games that meet that requirement either. I suppose making games is a very different from making the usual kind of opensource software. It requires more immediate communication, a fixed core team, and, as far as I can tell the biggest problem, it requires artists. Programmers usually aren't very successful when creating their own artwork..

    --
    Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
  17. Re:Only homebrew? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It allows you to do the following:

    1) Play pure homebrew from SD/USB
    2) Play games from other regions on legitimate (pressed) discs
    3) Play pirated Virtual Console/WiiWare games

    And with a ModChip to keep the DVD drive from telling the Wii that a burnt disc is inside:

    4) Play homebrew from burnt discs
    5) Play pirated games with modified files

    For obvious reasons, Nintendo is worried about #3 and #5.

  18. That's a big "nearly" by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would say that "nearly anything that compiles on Linux" classifies as homebrew, don't you? Does rejecting just about anything that depends on OpenGL fall under your "nearly"?