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Review of Das Keyboard
First of all let me say that it sounds great. There's something really satisfying about the thunderous racket created by a nice tactile keyboard. The buttons move smoothly and lightly. As I type these words I find myself typing very fast. Ironically, I have to turn up my speakers just to listen clearly to the NPR program quietly playing... and this leads me to my first point. There are no volume control keys. So I have to navigate through various menus to put the volume control widget back on my toolbar. I haven't needed it for years, but this keyboard has none of the bloated keys that over populate a modern keyboard. Save for the 2 keys added for windows 95, this is practically the same layout as the first keyboard I called my own in the 80s. The keyboard is also available without any markings on the key- although my keyboard had them.
Then I hear the ping that tells me that I have mail so I apple-tab to go to my Mail program and then... crap. Did I mention that this is a windows keyboard? The alt key and the windows key are obnoxiously transposed, requiring me to rewire my brain to get to the program I need. It's not the end of the world- and of course it only matters if you are using a Mac. But since I switch daily from the laptop keyboard to a desktop keyboard, I suspect that I would slowly go mad as I was never able to reliably remember which key was alt and which key was apple. To say nothing of this meaningless preferences button which does nothing. Of course the OSX preferences panels contain an option to remap these keys, but I'd have to reset it every time I went home. And I just don't like the idea of monkeying around with this sort of thing twice a day.
So I decide that just for now I will use my mouse to navigate from app to app. This makes my heart cry a little bit- I don't much care for my mouse. He sits there lonely, the tool of last resort as I instead opt to use ridiculous keybindings requiring 7 fingers of syncronized chording. It only inflames my carpal tunnel, but I don't have to move my arm. But times of desperation call for us to rise up to the challenges that come before us.
Now Das Keyboard has the USB ports on the right hand side. I've plugged in 2 devices: the first is a little spinner wheel that I use for editing video, and the other is a little RF broadcaster for a wireless Logitech mouse. And like most of you, I'm right handed. So as I fling my mouse around, I find myself constantly bumping into the 2 giant USB plugs that now overlap my mousepad. My old keyboard had the mouse ports at the top and I never had this problem.
The toggle lights are completely invisible unless on, hidden cleanly within the black plastic surface. The num lock key doesn't seem to do anything, although I assume that's a mac thing. And scroll lock... well now seriously, who among us relies on that in any serious way? Maybe I should just remap those keys, along with the windows 'preferences' key to be the volume up, down, and mute key I'm missing.
But it's black. It's sexy. It's loud. It feels good to type on it. Which takes me to the big question: is this really worth shelling out $130 plus shipping for? For me the answer is a no. It feels great to type, but the lack of volume controls, the mac keys, and most of all, the irritating position of the USB ports make it an inferior keyboard in all practical ways except for the simple act of typing. But if you are a left handed windows user, you might feel differently. As for me, I'm going to have to keep searching for my perfect keyboard. This one is close, but it's just not it.
It's called a Model M. Yeah, I have one and my wife hates it because it is indeed very noisy... (The keyboard, not the wife.)
Not only does it have the best spring action on the key, but it has the heft to kill a man.
Just trust me on that last bit.
Before you say a keyboard has great tactile feedback try the Kinesis Freestyle. But don't take my word for it: http://robertwrose.com/2008/06/kinesis-freestyle-is-best-keyboard-ive.html
I just might suggest shaving your palms and getting one of those covers you could just wipe clean after all the abuse.
Why don't they sell keyboards without these stupid windows-keys? I keep my old IBMish clone keyboard in top shape just so I don't have to endure getting used to such a gap in-between of Ctrl and Alt, and a much shorter space. I have no use for these additional keys, and I bet I'm not the only guy around who despises them. Why aren't old-style keyboards on the market? That's what I want to know.
(And yes, I realize this is probably a years-old question)
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
Preorder is $99, full price $129. A new in the box late 90s Model M can be had for $70 even with the USB adapter it would not break $80. Plus you get a durable piece of computing history, and no god forsaken windows keys.
Apart from the fact it's obviously better for Mac users anyway since it *has* the Apple key and option key in the right place, it also has the extended F keys, the volume and the optical eject keys too.
In addition, it's also really nice to type on and perfect USB-hub placement.
The only caveats are that a) it's no longer made since they went to the casio-inspired ones of late and b) there isn't a power button on them like the old iMac keyboard (and the follow on almost identical white-iMac keyboard that preceded the Pro keyboard).
That said, I still like the g3 iMac and the white iMac keyboards just as much, they're just harder to find. Virtually identical keys as well, nice and chunky.
I'm even partial to the new calculator style ones. Thought I'd hate them but since I got used to my Macbook's internal keyboard I find I quite like them. Easier on the wrists and hands.
The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
The only wish would be easier cleaning, the rest is just great.
...a keyboard that has keys that are displays?
When remapping characters to keys the display should change accordingly.
Preferably with a nixe tube kind of look.
Please someone tell me there is something like this.
What I do for a living: Build a GPS mobile game
You don't have to pay $130+shipping for Das Keyboard. You can get it from thinkgeek.com for $80+shipping. It's out of stock right now but is estimated to be back in stock in 1-3 weeks. This is the model with no markings on the keys. I've had mine for about five months, and I love it. It's helped me improve my touch-typing, it has great tactile feedback, and the sound of those keys clicking is very nice. Sure, it's not the Model M, and it doesn't have multimedia keys, but if you use Windows or Linux (can't speak for the Mac, don't have one), it's a very nice keyboard.
After I first started using ergonomic split-key keyboards over a decade ago, I can't go back to the old-style "bust your wrists" keyboard. After 5 min of typing, my wrists hurt.
So, no, Das Keyboard is NOT the best keyboard ever made. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic 4000 is still the best IMNSHO.
I've heard if your old keyboard gets too crusty you can throw it in the dishwasher. Anybody try it?
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
The OS X keyboard preferences are for a specific keyboard, NOT every keyboard. You can swap the das keyboard alt/windows keys without affecting the laptop keyboard layout.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
...you get Das Boot.
As a Das Keyboard user that -doesn't- use a Mac, I think it is wonderful. If you're a keyboard enthusiast (which is whom I would have expected to review A KEYBOARD), I highly recommend giving one a shot.
Each key is individually weighted, which gives it a really fresh feeling, and the keys feel light but still click loudly. In my opinion, there's really three top-tier keyboards out there for awesome tactile feedback: the M series keyboard (for people that learned on typewriters, not me), this keyboard and its mechanical switches, and those people out there that refuse to use anything but an SGI keyboard, even though their SGI workstation has been unused for years (some of my coworkers).
This guy just cares about the placement of the Command key (which is settable in the Options anyway), and the "extra" keys. If you're like that, this keyboard is not for you.
DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
Ah, but can you go into hand-to-hand combat with it, and still hook it up afterward and type up your insanity defense?
I think not.
Julie Moult is an idiot.
I really wish that one keyboard vendor would take a stand, and move that CapsLock key to a more remote part of the keyboard. It is rarely used, and often accidentally hit.
My favourite keyboard was bottom of the line Logitech wireless. Unfortunately I was unable to recover from the blue vodka cruiser incident. Right now I have a Logitech Access keyboard. It's fairly quiet, the keys are good enough, and it has all those fancy buttons. After 3 years of service I'm almost ready for a new one. I bought my daughter a Saitek. It's a full keyboard with the feel of a laptop keyboard. It has an odd feel at first but it's very comfortable and quiet to type on. It's also a very vibrant pink.
$130 for a keyboard? Maybe if I'm actually typing all day long.
New! Device Legs: These legs will help your poor OEM installed product escape any hamfistedness it may encounter. Ava
I have one of them and they are just a trusty old KT-2001 "ergoforce" keyboard sprayed black, it's sticker on the bottom and usb-id both confirm that.
While KT-2001 is quite excellent keyboard, the das keyboard is just plain overprized, also it comes in only the us layout.
Pity that I only have a tech demo kt-2001 as an alternative, as it's candy colour-coded spring stiffnesses are quite ugly, but atleast it has scandinavian layout.
For only $130 you too can have a keyboard with no labels on the keys! This is perfect for learning how to type!!
Because these days, electrical tape is bound to set you back a hefty sum.
CmdrTaco, what version of OS X are you running? I'm not sure about earlier versions, but if you're running Leopard, you certainly have the option to reassign the modifier keys for different keyboards. That way, the modifiers would remain the same on your laptop keyboard, and be remapped to their respective positions on the DasKeyboard.
Just take a look at this screenshot.
I do this with my Saitek Eclipse keyboard and my MacBook Pro, and the setup works pretty well so far. I have Alt remapped to command, and the Windows key remapped to option, so everything is essentially in the same place.
Now for the menu select key on the right side, that causes a slight problem...
No Dvorak version?
QWERTY is for losers!
I Heart Sorting Networks
Unicomp still makes the old-fashioned keyboards ... unfortunately, looking at their lists, most of the 101 and 102 key ones are PS2 or AT, not USB. They have a 'linux' model, but from the description I'm not sure if any of them are available as USB:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html
(and if you're scared of the springs -- they have quiet keyboards, too)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Is it that hard to hit Alt-Tab? Works in Windows and Mac.
The keyboards that come free with any Dell (something like $10 if you order them separately) are the best I've ever used. They aren't super noisy, yet have great key response. They have zero unnecessary keys, which means they're a lot smaller and fit easily into keyboard trays. They are very sturdily-built; the last one I had lasted 6 years, and the only reason I replaced it was that they released a newer model that even more compact.
I recently managed to get several of them, which I'm now keeping in storage in case Dell ever decides to phase them out for any reason. They're free, and they're great.
for the small desktop (Think Sam Lowry's sliding desk in Brazil). So I can put the mousepad where the numeric keypad is supposed to be. I think HappyHacker has them, the high keys but without the Model M feel; I wish the keys were more low profile and ergonomic.
e17 let me remap PrintSc and ScrollLock to be volume up/down; they're adjacent to each other. The Pause key brings down an xterm Quake-console-style (yeahconsole to be specific, like tilda or YaKuake).
and might i add, yeah sure remap the Windows key. I'd rather ditch CapsLock. Was fine in my COBOL days. And it was shiftlock, so either shift key would release that lock on my portable typewriter. If they had CapsLock and shift keys working like this it would be alright. Dang just get off my lawn you kids...
But what about you heavy coders out there, won't DasKeyboard mess you up when it comes to braces, brackets, parentheses, underscores, and whatnot?
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
I believe I'll stick with my Happy Hacking Lites... All that extra bulk on the right side of a 104 keyboard has the effect of either pushing the main part of the keyboard to the left (increasing wrist strain) or pushing the mouse further to the right (real fun to reach for it, you know...)
I wouldn't mind having some of those keys back, but only if I could put them on the left. Presently for Blender I use an external USB numeric keypad which I keep to the left of my keyboard... not too shabby.
Bow-ties are cool.
What brand of refrigerator was Harrison Ford Product Placing for such contingencies?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Still -- several years after they stopped making them.
Seriously, if someone could point me to a better keyboard that's under 4000 USD, I'd pay a significant finder's fee. Until you've used a really good keyboard you don't appreciate just how much they're worth ...
(It puzzles me how people who work with computers all day seldom think to try anything beyond a $20 keyboard.)
So after the long and painful voyage it gets bombed by the allies, right?
Funny, I just did an annual clean of mine and it's just like new again. I've got an old logitech internet navigator keyboard that cost about $35, five years ago when I bought it.
My friends laugh at me for doing something so ridiculous. They say, "Why not just go buy a new one?" when the hair and the crumbs and whatever else makes it look nasty. It took me about an hour, but the way I see it, I saved at least $35, plus I don't have to buy a keyboard that's going to require some retarded drivers, and have to get used to a whole new feeling keyboard.
You're nothing; like me.
on Mac OS X. Go to System Preferences, then Keyboard & Mouse, and click on the "Modifier Keys" button. You can then swap any around -- I set caps lock to be control, but you can also change the Alt and Command keys. So if the keyboard has them swapped, you can swap them in software, and be happy.
Ergonomic keyboards have the keys in the positions your hands are supposed to be. It's a neutral position. There's plenty of research as to this, but really you just need to look at the position your arms and wrists take when you use one.
As to you using a normal keyboard with no problems, well that's great, and most people can. Most of the population doesn't suffer from RSI, even when they do things improperly. However if you do, you need to deal with it, and part of that is getting ergonomic input devices.
If you are really interested in this sort of thing, you should do some research. Most of what you know, the "mother's common knowledge" stuff is probably wrong. Like the idea that sitting up straight is the best idea. Nope. Reclining is a very healthy thing to do, and indeed the very best ergonomic chairs are made to support working in a reclined position.
Do these four words qualify as a bona-fide /. meme yet?
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
One problem I've noticed is that... the per keyboard mapping isn't completely effective. USB keyboards won't respect their per-keyboard mapping, from what I've seen.
USB doesn't specify a standard way for devices to have a unique identifier. The result is that all USB devices of a given model appear identical to the host. So if you have two Das Keyboards, the host cannot tell them apart (within the world of USB).
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
These days, my favorite is the gold touch keyboard from key ovation. It has very good feel and travel (though without the m-series clicks), a highly adjustable, split, ergonomic design, windows meta keys that exist but are placed out of the way in the left corner, and no bulky number pad. I've been typing on one for years now, and I can never go back!
I was under the impression the dot matrix printers of the 1980's were the loudest most annoying peices of computer equipment ever created.
You obviously never saw a daisy-wheel or golf-ball printer in action. Thump thump thump thump thump thump thump click-whir thump thump thump...
My first DMP was quiet in comparison.
/me waits for someone with an ASR-33 to jump into the thread...
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Unfortunately the Das Keyboard isn't as heavily constructed as the Model M. I can pick mine up and twist the sides and the frame flexes slightly. I doubt it would survive an encounter with an intruder. It doesn't have as much curve as the Model M does either, so it's slightly less comfortable to type on.
But it's still an excellent keyboard. Keyboards are for typing, and the Das Keyboard excels at it. I don't change the volume from my keyboard, that's what the mixer is for. I don't plug USB devices into it, I have a hub for that. I don't use a Mac, but if I did, remapping the keys is easy.
Every one of the issues the reviewer weighs is a non-issue. This is one of the best keyboards on the market, and at $130 is worth every penny. It's still no match for a $2 Model M from Goodwill though.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Dude, if there's one person in the world who you can prove conclusively does *not* read Slashdot, at all, it's CmdrTaco. (And the other editors.)
Comment of the year
They introduced per-keyboard control of the modifiers in OS X 10.5. If yours and CmdrTaco's comments are any indicator, though, they did not make this easy enough to find.
.sig: file not found
Best Keyboard for unix geek... is a Sun Type 7
Reasons:
* Damn good tactile feedback
* Heavy
* Has 15 (yes fifteen) extra function keys
* Dedicated meta, compose and alt-graph keys.
* 3 USB Ports (on top, not sides), including a hidden one for mouse.
* Comes in a variety of native layouts
- Traditional PC
- UNIX (American)
- UNIX (British)
Country kit is $70 and comes with a keyboard and (a damn good ambidextrous) mouse. Choose carefully. Part numbers are google away.
- mritunjai
My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of abuse that I found myself struggling to depress most of the keys on the left side.
It's not hard to keep a keyboard reasonably clean. Here's what I do that helps:
1) turn keyboard upside down and rap it a few times -- do this over a trash can (or an easily wiped surface if you want to see how effective it is).
2) canned/compressed air to force out the rest
3) wet-wipe or damp paper towel w/ a little windex to wipe the fingerprint buildup off the keys
And you don't even need to do this that often.
The only things that kill my keyboards are static electricity and obsolete plugs.
Look at the amazon reviews. All of them complain about the manufacturing and one of them even have some pictures up which look horrifying. I could solder a lot better than that!
http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.php?id=my_album&no=51766
Daisy wheel and golf ball? They're not loud when compared to a barrel printer.
Barrel printer? They're not loud when compared to a chain printer. Until 1992 we had an IBM-1403 that we kept around just for re-printing the source code books every month.
(Yes, we kept the source code printed out for taking support calls in the programming department. It was easier to page through the source in book form to find out why things happened than to find the right floppy disks, load up the code, load up the editor, and then page through at 24x80... Documentation? Pffft! Spec? Pshaw!)
We had an upper-case only chain, though. So mixed-case text was always a bit of a puzzle to figure out. Fortunately the programming language was case insensitive.
Even the linefeed/pagefeed was loud.
PS: And don't fuck up the linefeed/carriage return sequence. At 75 inches / second a bad print job could ruin a box of paper in a few minutes.
Get off my lawn.