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AT&T To Offer No-Contract iPhone
rfc1394 writes "While the regular price of an iPhone is $199 if you take a 2-year contract with AT&T, if you're willing to pay a lot more you can get one without a contract. An article in InfoWorld mentions that 'Freedom will come with a price — $599 for an 8GB device and $699 for a 16GB — but this will mark the first time consumers in the United States are able to buy an iPhone without being tied down to a two-year contract. The phone probably would still be locked for use only on AT&T's network, said Jupiter Research analyst Michael Gartenberg. But buyers could choose a pay-as-you-go plan for voice service.' The question still remains, does it make any sense to pay that much for a phone that is still locked to AT&T's network even if you aren't bound to a contract?" Update: 07/05 18:21 GMT by T : An anonymous reader suggests that there is a convoluted but possibly cheaper route to an new, unlocked iPhone.
I wouldn't buy an iPhone even if it was completely free. It's made by Apple, people! Apple = bad!
Four
So I buy a phone outright for $599/$699, or I buy a phone for $199/$299 with a 2 year plan ($36 activation fee) then cancel the contract immediately for $175...net cost $410/$510. Hmmmm.....
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Fail
As the ETF is probably only $150-200 or so, just get a phone for $200 and when you decide you hate AT&T, just break the contract.
What I worry about is this is the "tax price", so that in CA (and other states), you may pay $200, but you are paying tax on a $600 phone, which would up the cost to the end user an additional $33.
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Most phone companies have a stipulation in the contract that forces you to return the phone if you cancel the contract soon after starting it. In this case I would think that time would be about 6 months or so - enough time for them to squeeze out the 600/700 dollar cost.
"does it make any sense to pay that much for a phone that is still locked to AT&T's network even if you aren't bound to a contract?"
As Henry Ford once said of his Model T, "the customer can have any color he wants, so long as it's black." But only a cellphone company could call that a "custom color choice" and charge extra for it.
What if the phone gets "stolen"?
Well, you should have bought insurance.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
The price quoted probably is a fair price. They are subsidising it. But that is priced out of the U.S. market, it is even at the high end of the Japanese market.
That price is what the Apple should sell the phone for to other phone companies, and they will then be able to provide service and subsidize some portion of it. The only value this announcement has is to tell people how much the subsidy was. The other poster has it right, Fail.
Maybe but in the case of AT&T they do not:
Cancellations/Early Termination Fee: An Early Termination Fee of $175 may be assessed against you in the event that you terminate your Wireless Service Agreement and/or selected plan before the expiration of its term. For Service activated on or after May 25, 2008, the Early Termination Fee will be reduced by $5.00 for each full month toward your minimum term that you complete. You may cancel your service, for any reason and without incurring the Early Termination Fee, within thirty (30) days of signing your Wireless Service Agreement, PROVIDED, however, that if you cancel service you will remain responsible for any service fees and charges incurred. If you cancel within three (3) days of signing your Wireless Service Agreement, you will be entitled to a refund of your activation fee, if any. If you exercise this option, you may be required to return devices and associated accessories purchased in connection with your Wireless Service Agreement.
So you wait until the 4th day.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
In the UK, it looks like O2 will offer the iPhone on pay-as-you-go (that is, without contract), but for £199-ish (~$399), or, at the outside, £299 (~$599). The first is looking more likely. Nothing's been confirmed yet, though.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
You would need to pay for 1 month of your contract ($70 is the cheapest?), if you cancel before 30 days you have to return the phone. Also, there has been no confirmation of the early termination fee being $175 for the iPhone. (if it were to be $175 you would still end up getting the phone a bit cheaper than going with the no commitment option).
I think what people really want is an iPhone that can be used with any GSM carrier. For that, it would be worth paying more - but not for another way of still being tied to AT&T...
Australians will enjoy the ability to buy a pre-paid iPhone and unlock it to work on any network for $80.
They have allowed unlocking because the laws here don't allow you to lock a phone to a given provider without a reasonable option.
The cell phone industry is the most hated industry in America - beating the airlines, which says something. One of the reasons is their locking of phones along with their shitty customer "service" and contracts.
If it weren't for the fact that I'm part of a family plan (my leash), my cell phone would be gone.
All we need now are for some Canadians to reiterate how shafted they feel by their only GSM provider :)
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
...If you exercise this option, you may be required to return devices and associated accessories purchased in connection with your Wireless Service Agreement.
So if you cancel your contract you don't necessarily get to keep the iPhone after paying the Early Termination Fee.
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When an OpenMoko is cheaper and has better hardware specifications?
Once you are out of contract, they are required by law to unlock your phone for use on any carrier, so selling a no-contract phone thats locked doesn't make a whole lot of sense, as they'd just have to provide an unlock code at your request anyway. I guess they'll probably do it just to make people who don't know any better use AT&T anyway.
Either way, the price makes buying an unlocked phone absolutely retarded. You pay the $199/$299 and pay the $175 contract early termination fee and save yourself some money. After paying the termination fee, they have to unlock your phone so you can take it where ever you want, sans visual voicemail of course.
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The contract reads: You may cancel your service, for any reason and without incurring the Early Termination Fee, within thirty (30) days of signing your Wireless Service Agreement, PROVIDED, however, that if you cancel service you will remain responsible for any service fees and charges incurred. If you cancel within three (3) days of signing your Wireless Service Agreement, you will be entitled to a refund of your activation fee, if any. If you exercise this option, you may be required to return devices and associated accessories purchased in connection with your Wireless Service Agreement.
Now, one could argue whether the last sentence applies to the 3 days or the 30 days. To me it looks like it only applies to the 3 day period. However, since we're trying to get the iPhone for as cheap as possible, and therefore we really don't want to argue it in court, we can use the 30 days, pay for phone service for a month--cheapest plan of course (after all, you are going to pay SOMEONE for phone service so why not AT&T for the first month?) -- then cancel the service.
As an aside, the $175 early termination fee for ALL contracts actually highlights that the fee has nothing to do with the supposed "charge to recover the cost of subsidizing the hardware". If it did then the fee would be tied to the cost of the hardware....but that's a soapbox for another time...
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Here in the States, you are always locked into a provider, even if the phone is popular enough to be sold be more by than one provider. If the iPhone is supposed to be the future of computing in general, I don't know why it's only being sold as a phone. Or is it really only best used as a phone with a few other features? With the software base so limited, it's hard to tell. I would think Apple would sell these outright to people who want a portable computer (and then force you into AT&Ts maw if you still wanted to poen up the phone function). Palm was brilliant to open development to all comers, but Jobs' need for control is crippling an otherwise highly advanced piece of electronics.
You can't buy insurance from the carrier for high dollar phones such as the iPhone. People that buy them will buy another one if it gets stolen ( Well, okay, I'm buying another one to replace my stolen iphone on the 11th ). And its not really profitable for them to charge you a $20 insurance fee for a phone that they actually have to pay for, unlike all the other give-away phones that they don't mind insuraning because they are so cheap that the fee they charge you when you make a claim is more than the phone costs them.
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Just FYI... the new data plan with AT&T is $30/month while the old plan (Edge) was only $20/month
SO with the new phone you're already paying $120/year more than previous... which means people are actually paying more money over the 2 year period... $199 + $240 (2 year contract) = $459
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
The iphone was always available WITHOUT the 2 year contract from apple. I certainly never paid a 2 year contract when I bought my phone 9 months ago. Some people were able to activate w/ att without a contract is their credit was bad. Now, with the new plan, they're going to allow a subsidized version with a contract.
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
Just ordered my FreeRunner. Yes, it's $400, and yes it doesn't work perfectly yet but it's a big step up from what I have now (no phone at all) and the approx $10/month I will make in calls will be just fine with T-Mobile's PAYG vs being locked into yet another telco service contract.
The 3 day "trial" is a full 100% refund. The 30 day "trial" is the same thing, but you don't get your activation fee refunded ($36) (for days between day 4 and day 30). Given this, after 30 days, you have to pay (1) 1 months worth of service (2) $36 activation fee (3) 199/299 for the phone, and (4) termination fee of 175 - and quite possibly a pro rated second month of usage (if any).
It usually works that if you cancel within the 30 days, you return the equipment and you don't need to pay the ETF. However, if you decide you want to keep the equipment, you'll probably be required to pay the ETF even though you're within the 30 days.
Probably the same with the 3 day thing (though the wording is rather ambiguous). If you decide not to receive a refund of the activation fee, as well as pay the ETF, you can probably still keep the hardware.
You can in the UK (O2) - £7 a month.
You either have bad credit or used the all-9's trick when you activated it. There was no publicized, formally sanctioned means for going prepaid with the original iPhone. I personally went the path of entering all 9's for my SSN, and I won't be buying an iPhone 3G. I wanted a significantly better iPhone; not this.
Wouldn't it make more sense to get the phone for $199 and pay them $200 for the contract termination fee?
Because I seem to hear lots of people laughing. Or are they crying? Hard to tell...
AT&T has explicitly said that even without a contract you still have a locked phone and the same choices for plans (i.e. minimum $70 a month +taxes and fees for voice/data, with no sms).
That doesn't sound like pay-as-you-go is allowed to me. Which is a shame, because if it was I might actually be interested. A $500 phone, $30 a month for data, and a hundred bucks for a year worth of minutes and SMSes is a better deal for me than a $200 phone plus $75+taxes+fees every month for more minutes than I use in a year.
AT&T needs to let people who don't use their phone as a phone that much buy what they want.
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Sorry you're wrong. Insurance is definitely offered on iphones. I guess you don't know what you are talking about or regret not buying the insurance yourself because I have an iphone and I have insurance @ 4.95 a month w AT&T. That's pretty standard for a smartphone. Verizon charged me the same insurance fee when I had a treo.
30-DAY CANCELLATION PERIOD/TERMINATION You may terminate this Agreement within thirty (30) days after activating service without paying an Early Termination Fee. You will pay for service fees and charges incurred through the termination date, but AT&T will refund your activation fee, if any, if you terminate within three (3) days of activating the service. Also, you may have to return any handsets and accessories purchased with this Agreement. If you terminate after the 30th day but before expiration of the Agreement's Service Commitment, you will pay AT&T an Early Termination Fee for each wireless telephone number associated with the service.
Seems clear to me. You go through with the contract or you pay the Early Termination Fee or you "may have to" return the phone - period.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Service may be cancelled after 14 days but within 30 days and early termination fee will be waived, but equipment may not be returned.
thanks for digging that up.
It is an interesting loophole and I wonder if they will close it or if it is there for some other reason it is worded like that.
from the perspective of a Dealer, this seems like a raw deal. For example, lets say half the people who buy new iPhones bring them back on the 15th day and want to cancel their contracts.
The Dealer has to do all this paperwork to cancel, they get no money for it and the customer gets to keep the iPhone.
Perhaps they are hoping people trying to take advantage of this will forget about the 14-30 day window.
I like microcars
In addition to the added $10/month for the 3G plan, the new iPhone plans do not include any SMS. For $5/month you can get the 200 message plan that was included in the original iPhone data plan.
Although there has been a lot of talk that corporate/educational discounts will be available on iPhone plans for the 3G. So that could be a bonus, or in some cases could end up making the differences a wash.
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My iPhone sounds just as good as a land line.
that is incorrect. You have to be eligible for the 199 price. if you are not, its 399 + 175 early termination fee.
So I buy a phone outright for $599/$699, or I buy a phone for $199/$299 with a 2 year plan ($36 activation fee) then cancel the contract immediately for $175...net cost $410/$510. Hmmmm.....
They're tricking you into thinking you're winning... and you fell for it.
It's better than I thought...current Terms of Service: ((4) iPHONE TERMS AND CONDITIONS): Terms Applicable to AT&T Nation/FamilyTalkî GSM Plans: Credit approval required. Subscriber must live and have a mailing address within AT&T's owned network coverage area. An early termination fee applies if service is terminated before the end of the contract term. The fee will begin at $175 per device and decrease by $5 each month for the term of the agreement. If phone is returned within 3 days, activation fee will be refunded. If phone is returned within 14 days in like-new condition with all components, early termination fee will be waived. Service may be cancelled after 14 days but within 30 days and early termination fee will be waived, but equipment may not be returned. All other charges apply. Some dealers impose additional fees. So they explicitly say that you can cancel the service between 14 and 30 days, avoid the early termination fee, but don't have to return the iPhone.
So, we can buy the iPhone outright for $599/$699 or we can get a contract and cancel it after 14 days (but before 30 days) and pay a net of $235/$335.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
If you purchase the $199 original iPhone then fail the credit check when signing up for service (whether for real or by entering a bogus SSN) you will be offered a prepaid service (goPhone) option. This may or may not be the case with the new one, but I personally can vouch that this was still the case 6 months ago when I signed up.
So even if you fork out the full price for an unlocked iPhone you can still only use it on AT&T anyways? Absurd! With all of iPhone/Apple/AT&T restrictions it's amazing that people are still flocking in masses to buy the gadget. SHEEP!
Jessica
It's always possible to game the system if you're willing to defraud it sufficiently. I mean, hey, I need more money, what if my bank gets "robbed"?
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Yes it makes sense to buy the phone because you will get it unlocked and shipped to other countries that do not have an IPhone provider. Whether it makes sense for an enduser consumer is a different story.
Well, actually, AT&T did offer the iPhone without a contract the first time around--it was called taking it home and activating it on a Go plan, aka prepaid. They didn't advertise this because that was unlocking heaven, but they've closed that option off this time.
If you're going to use it with them anyway, I think paying full price would only make sense if you got the phone fully unlocked that way and COULDN'T just plug it into your computer and run an app to hack it wide open.
You are paying $70/month for a portable communications device with full internet access, just about anywhere you go.
There could be many people who do not care or need internet access. But I would think most Slashdot readers would not be among them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Personally I thought the current iPhone phone quality, has been OK. But in the next model they did improve the speakers, and possibly also the mic.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
you frighten me lol
AT&T has soured the milk. We thought we were getting a cheaper iPhone but the fed are too high. As a current iPhone user the financial incentive is to keep the current phone. Even this no-contract deal is more expensive than breaking a contract.
you have to give the iphone back if you cancel, which would be dumb if you did, In the new contract for iphone it states that you must return the iphone if you cancel contract and they will replace you with another $200 phone
"The question still remains, does it make any sense to pay that much for a phone that is still locked to AT&T's network even if you aren't bound to a contract?"
Even a penny would be too much to pay for a locked phone.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
See those quotes around "stolen"? That means it's not REALLY stolen. So you buy the phone for $299, activate for $36, cancel for $175, and you can't be forced to return the phone because it got "stolen."
Now from this point, is it as easy as going to another provider and having them swap the SIM?
As long as it's your own bank account, I don't think anyone will mind.
One should thank the ATT for revealing true price of iPhone. The cheapest model is $600. We finally got the number and I don't care if there is a way to trick and get cheaper iPhone, it is $600 similar to the fact that having hacked firmware option doesn't make it open to all applications.
It became easier to compare iPhone to Nokia N95 now. iPhone is $600, Nokia N95 (8gb unlocked) is $573
no, you could just ask for a prepaid instead of a contract... I was in line on I-day 2007 and 3 people ahead of me in line did this with no problems.
The fact that on all aspects of the service plans for the phone, there is a dearth of information and clarity just speaks to how sucky ATT is as a company to deal with tho. You could very well have had a completely different experience at your local ATT store.
Chuck
does any care that jobs said you can get the iPhone for $199, or $299 for the upgrade... how then can at&t legally gouge customers? especially if they are not allowing customers to extend contracts if you are within your first year on your current devices. sounds bunk to me.
--- haasta IT consultant | Web Programmer
That's a really good point.
I think GP's point was, claim the phone is stolen when you cancel the contract so you don't have to return the phone.
Can't say I wouldn't laugh, either - entering into an agreement with every intention of breaking it, and being willing to file a fraudulent police report just to save yourself some money? What a world class fucking citizen you are.
Big "days" in history:
Great moments in time. Well, if you believe the Apple faithful, anyway.
With their "Slider" you have to buy a $100 'everything plan. So you get the phone for $130 and then you fork out $1200/year for the service.
Far from apple faithful here... though I do own a number of their products. Plenty of bad product launches on apples part, and plenty of poor customer experiences.
Apple just seems to have hit on the correct stance to take when it comes to dealing with the media:
Dont say anything unless you will benefit directly.
They avoid all kinds of negative publicity this way.
Chuck
What if the phone gets "stolen"?
Then you might get accused of "fraud".
There's no way (as of yet) to change the iPhone's ESN, so if you report the phone stolen, you can expect the ESN to be barred from US networks (and EU ones, come to think of it) -- and if you try to use it, an alert will be triggered (assuming that AT&T's policies are anything like the policies of the carriers in the EU when it comes to stolen phones.)
The real litigious bastards...
Hell, if the Nokia's technically comparable, that's a really low "Apple tax". Typically the Apple label costs more like forty percent, not thirty bucks.
What if the phone gets "stolen"?
Then the phone gets flagged as stolen by AT&T, and the next person who tries to activate that particular handset is due for an interesting time.
If you cancel within 30 days you return the phone, not keep it.
*There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape em off Jim!*
Check your fire. No AT&T insurance for the iPhone.
does it make any sense to pay that much for a phone
No.
This is the model I would get then head over to 3G iPhone Unlock and unlock it!
I'm a diehard Mac/Apple fan. Have been for decades. But there is absolutely nothing cool about the iPhone.
When apple went with AT&T and all this nightmarish contract and price gouging nonsense then the iPhone is rubbish.
It could have been something cool...but nope. Apple wrecked it...like many Apple projects. They invent great technology just to screw it up except this time they gave it to AT&T to complete screw it up.
I'm pretty sure the bank will mind greatly if you steal money from your own account, then report it as stolen and tell them you expect them to refund you for failing to protect it.
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It's the law in France that handsets have to be sold unlocked. So if you find yourself on the continent anytime soon, it would probably be a lot cheaper to just buy one there.
(Incidentally, I'm going to France in October and plan on doing exactly this. Anyone do this with the 2.5G model and any tips? Thx)
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
What more did you want that would have made it significantly better? Blowjobs?
I kid, but I am curious what features you wanted.
If you have insurance, its because they don't realize you have an iPhone, did you have insurance before you bought the iPhone? Its likely the just didn't turn off the billing.
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I am sorry to say that the "update" from www.phonenews.com looks like a bit of a scam.
First of all because the whole sceme depends on your ability to sell multiple items through eBay. And secondly because the "story" is pushing readers to sign up for a contarct using a direct link in the article - but the link looks very much like an "affiliate link" for AT&T.
If that is correct then www.phonenews.com is making money every time a users signs up for that contracts. And their credibility goes right down the drain.
It leaves the readers with the following two questions:
1.) Should I engage in the described theme which claims to get me a cheap iPhone but is in fact depending on selling stuff through eBay to cover the losses from the preceding transactions?
2.) Did they write this article in order to cash in on the affiliate link, or did they write it because the actually believe it is a good way to get a cheat phone? (Which leads to a third question: Can I trust a "news site" which tries to trick me into signing a contract so they can make money from the referral?)
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
Most US carriers don't respect the ESN blacklist.
and what if i lost my phone overseas? also i don't think they could prove you comited fraud that is until some one passes a law saying they can search your house for your missing phone
How on earth is this modded flamebait? It is entirely accurate and represents what is wrong with the majority of slashdot moderators these days... are we advocating intentionally breaking the law for financial gain?
I'm kind of shocked that that update made it into the article. Aside from the fact that it isn't fully tested, they're asking you to "trust us" and click on the links in the article _which are all affiliate links_. This looks like a blatent money-grab and it shouldn't be part of the article.
I was thinking along the lines of withdrawal, not actual theft of your own money.
Actually I wonder... You can't "steal" money from your own account, it's your own money! Legally I'm pretty sure the only illegal part would be to report it as stolen. But then again IANAL.
Yes, just like the only illegal part of having your iPhone "stolen" would be the report. It's fraud, not theft.
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Oops, wrong thread! The above post belongs in this thread: News: There's a Sucker Converted Every Minute . "What's the best tech scam you've heard of lately?"
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If get a second mortgage on your home, you can buy a prepaid iPhone and pay to have it unlocked by the carrier in Australia.
here
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The published price being advertised all over for the new apple iphone 3G is $199â¦what they are not telling you is that price is only for new ATT customers and those current ATT customers who happen to be eligible for an equipment upgrade (according to ATT, upgrade eligibility is âoegenerallyâ determined by the amount of time remaining on a current contract). For all those current ATT customers who do not happen to be at the end of their contract, the actual price for you is $399 plus an $18 upgrade fee along with a new 2-year contract. ATT is penalizing their long-time, account in good standing, customers a whopping $200. Why is the actual price of the new iphone not being advertised for what it isâ¦$399? Itâ(TM)s the same price as the old iphone with an increase in the data plan.
For more information refer to iPhone 3G at www.att.com/iphone
Existing AT&T customers who are not currently eligible for an upgrade discount can purchase iPhone 3G for $399 for the 8GB model or $499 for the 16GB model. Both options require a new 2-year service agreement. In the future, AT&T will offer a no-contract-required option for $599 (8GB) or $699 (16GB).
Current customers may also choose to wait until they become eligible for an upgrade discount. Eligibility is generally determined by amount of time remaining on a current contract and payment history.
Current AT&T customers who are upgrading to iPhone 3G will pay an $18 upgrade fee and new AT&T customers will pay the standard $36 activation fee.
GSM phones have no ESN. IMEI is the keyword you are looking for.
So I buy a phone outright for $599/$699, or I buy a phone for $199/$299 with a 2 year plan ($36 activation fee) then cancel the contract immediately for $175...net cost $410/$510. Hmmmm.....
That's not going to fare to well on your credit report. And this is not a good time in the economy to have any dings on your credit.
They typically don't give a rats ass about returning the phone if you cancel the contract - the phone is your property.
What they do want out of you is a very high early-cancellation penalty, which is spelled out in the fine print of the contract you signed. And they won't accept returning the phone in lieu of this penalty.
LB
...Lorenzo / I'm into kinky crustaceans. I just discovered internet praWn.
"...this will mark the first time consumers in the United States are able to buy an iPhone without being tied down to a two-year contract. The phone probably would still be locked for use only on AT&T's network, said Jupiter Research analyst Michael Gartenberg. But buyers could choose a pay-as-you-go plan for voice service.' The question still remains, does it make any sense to pay that much for a phone that is still locked to AT&T's network even if you aren't bound to a contract?"
then it won't be. it isn't (does not *become*) a PHONE until it IS tied to the SAME single carrier. so, then this FA is, what, very poor writing? a FOX news audition? what?
Not that the originator is the most up-and-up citizen I've ever heard of, but are you saying that the AT&T's and other large carriers are that much better because they've gotten lobbyists working for them to adapt laws to their favor?
Charging for unclear calls, ridiculously high international rates and other excessive fees for a substandard system isn't the most consumer-centric paradigm I've seen, either.
While breaking the law is not encouraged, at the same time, we are encouraging collusion and forced contractual commitments that favors only the provider with little or no consumer protection.
I work for At&T as a Retail Sales Consultant and two things are wrong in a major way with this story. First, the no contract iPhone will not be available until some time (months) after launch. Second, the story implies a pre-paid option for the iPhone...there isn't one. Pre-paid is off limits for iPhone customers.
Add to that little calculation your first months bill, which will be pro-rated, and you have the no contract price again...
This insurance concept on phones is interesting. Up here in Canada we definitely have no option to purchase insurance on our smartphones. I work for one of the major wireless companies up here, and regularly field calls where people have lost or had their phone stolen. Pretty much they're looking at purchasing a new phone, possibly with a discount, but no insurance policy replacements, that's for sure.