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Australian Ban On Fallout 3 – Why?

Posted by timothy on from the morphine's-a-stimulant-in-upside-down-land dept.

LSU_ADT_Geek writes "What could possibly be so controversial in upcoming E3 2008 headliner Fallout 3 that the Australian government would impose a dreaded 'RC' rating on Bethesda's upcoming tertiary post-apocalyptic RPG? No one knows for sure, but speculation is that the optional use of drugs in the game — specifically the option to employ morphine as a stimulant — may underlie the Aussie classification board blacklisting."

128 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the screenplay blog http://blogs.theage.com.au/screenplay/archives//009975.html

    POSTAL (aka LOOSE CANNON) Computer Games
    CD-ROM Refused Classification 28/10/1997

    GRAND THEFT AUTO III Review (Other)
    PlayStation 2. Refused Classification 29/11/2001

    BMX XXX Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 16/10/2002

    THE GETAWAY Computer Games
    PlayStation 2. Refused Classification 27/11/2002

    SHELLSHOCK NAM67 Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 22/06/2004

    LEISURE SUIT LARRY : MAGNA CUM LAUDE Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 09/09/2004

    MANHUNT Review (CG)
    PlayStation 2. Refused Classification 29/09/2004

    SINGLES FLIRT UP YOUR LIFE Computer Games
    PC Refused Classification 21/10/2004

    THE PUNISHER Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 23/11/2004

    NARC Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 08/04/2005

    POSTAL 2 SHARE THE PAIN Computer Games
    PC Refused Classification 10/10/2005

    50 CENT BULLETPROOF Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 24/10/2005

    MARC ECKO'S GETTING UP: CONTENTS UNDER PRESSURE Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 14/02/2006

    RESERVOIR DOGS Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 23/06/2006

    BLITZ THE LEAGUE Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 17/01/2007

    SOLDIER OF FORTUNE: PAYBACK Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 16/10/2007

    DARK SECTOR Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 13/02/2008

    SHELLSHOCK 2: BLOOD TRAILS Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 20/06/2008

    FALLOUT 3 Computer Games
    Multi Platform. Refused Classification 04/07/2008

    --
    Emerald Astrology
    1. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by donaldm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that game censorship in Australia only goes to R15+ which still falls into the Child category. The only way to get games that are adult is to have a R18+ category however the present Government (Labour) as well as the previous Government (Liberal) don't appear to be interested in passing legislation for a R18+ category. It is not intransigence on the part of the gaming lobby groups since they really want this category it is the Government.

      Of course (puts on tin-foil hat) all Governments appear to like the "think of the children" slogan which can be a good vote getter, so if you can prevent or stall an R18+ classification the Government can milk the save the children platform (or rant) for all it's worth then they are perceived as protecting society.

      That is why IMHO I think most Government officials are "Technological Cretins" (we like to call them "idiots" and other more colourful words as well).

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    2. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      As an Australian please let me say, the Office of Film and Literature Classification (OFLC) needs to be beaten upside the head with a Cluebat, repeatedly. The only reason any of those games were banned is because Australia does not have an R18+ rating for video games so if it isn't M15+ it cant possibly get classification (yet it's there for Films, Books, Comics, portraits and artwork FFS). The OFLC did vote on an R18+ classification but voted against it because the idiot Attorney Generals had no understanding of the media involved.

      Well there's always play-aisa, an online store based in HK. good for cheap PC and PS3 games (don't have a PS3 so don't quote me on that) but not for xbox and Wii due to region gouging, I mean coding

      Not only does it get around the OFLC (as long as its not banned, refusing classification just prohibits Australian retailers from selling it but you can still buy and import it from another country), it is also cheaper than going to EB games ($90 AU is now $84 US, so why am I paying nearly twice as much for a game when the same game is $49 US on Play-Asia even with US$10 for P&H).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      I'm just waiting for Michael Atkinson to get hit by a clue-by-four, or for SA to get themselves a useful attorney general. I may be waiting for a while...

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    4. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      Oh... don't get me started on local/import prices. It just drives me nuts...

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    5. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Refused classification" is not the same as "banned". There is a subtle, but important difference.

    6. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 2

      Can I walk into a store and buy it? If I can't do that, then I can import it. However, for 95% of the population, if they can't buy it at the store, then for all intents and purposes it's banned.

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    7. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Caged · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually it is illegal to import Restricted Classification items into Australia. Importing your average Hentai or a RC computer game will get you spanked by Customs officials and the police.

    8. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by mcvos · · Score: 1

      From the screenplay blog http://blogs.theage.com.au/screenplay/archives//009975.html

      [snip]

      Interestingly, Bioshock is rated MA15+, because apparently harvesting your recreational stimulants from little girls' bodies isn't anywhere near as bad as paying money for them.

      The first thing I thought when I read this was: they just refused classification, right? That's not the same thing as banning. While mainstream shops won't sell it, surely it's still legally possible to buy it in some other way? Apparently not. From the Classification website:

      Computer games that have been Refused Classification (RC) cannot be sold, hired or demonstrated in Australia.

      Sounds like Australians are out of luck. (Unless Fallout 3 turns into an Oblivion clone, in which case nobody cares.)

    9. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by unfunk · · Score: 1

      Yeah. This issue, coupled with the fact that both parties in our state are a bunch of morons, is prompting me to vote Liberal at the next election...

    10. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Gwyn_232 · · Score: 1

      More fool them. They don't seem to realise they're undermining their future vote.

    11. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Malekin · · Score: 1

      You're angry over an issue of overly conservative social policy and so you're going to vote for Australia's largest socially conservative party?

    12. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      The first thing I thought when I read this was: they just refused classification, right? That's not the same thing as banning. While mainstream shops won't sell it, surely it's still legally possible to buy it in some other way?

      I've heard that we're allowed to privately import it, but I haven't seen it anywhere official, so I'd love to know exactly what the law says we can and can't do here.

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    13. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ozphx · · Score: 1

      The decision I didnt get was Mario Ecko: Contents Under Pressure. I mean I can see the "too violent" reasoning behind other decisions... but "encourages graffiti"?

      Shit. Blows my plans to produce "Oz Phx's Loitering: With Intent to Jaywalk". Guess you ozfags will have to import that one.

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
    14. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by CoopersPale · · Score: 1

      Nothing like a good pollitical discussion :-)

      I personally don't see much difference in the policies of the two major parties - both seem to have moved toward the 'center' and don't distinguish themselves with clearly leftish or rightish policies. In a general sense, anyway. What remains (and is the main thing highlighted by the media) is a difference in personalities between the leaders.

      Or perhaps I'm just jaded by politics!

    15. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by spir0 · · Score: 2

      could you please elaborate? if it's refused classification, it's not allowed to be sold in the country, therefore, my perception is that it is every bit the same as being banned.

      if you import it, won't they confiscate it (assuming they find out or catch it passing thru customs)?

      --
      The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    16. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by westlake · · Score: 2, Interesting
      More fool them. They don't seem to realise they're undermining their future vote.

      If teens are growing up without playing these games, why should they be miseed when he is old enough to vote?

    17. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      If teens are growing up without playing these games, why should they be miseed when he is old enough to vote?

      Because they are going to find out that the Australian government banned them. So they will play them on emulators, a few hard-core gamers may import them from the EU, US, Japan, and figure out that these games aren't that bad. It is like saying that in schools if you say "don't do drugs" and don't pass out free samples of drugs, you aren't going to ever have a drug problem.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    18. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      The main regions are: * Asia (NTSC-J) * North America (NTSC U/C) * Europe and Oceania (PAL, PAL/E) * China (NTSC-C)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout#Video_games

      And because Australia would be considered in Oceania, wouldn't that mean that you can import European games even for systems with lockout? Because as far as I know all of them use that, with the slight exception for Nintendo which releases Commodore 64 Virtual Console games that get released in Europe but not Australia.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    19. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Australians are out of luck. (Unless Fallout 3 turns into an Oblivion clone, in which case nobody cares.)

      But on the back of my import Nintendo games there is a big warning saying "For sale, rental and use only in Japan" yet I import games all the time. Then again, I am in the US, and here you can even buy games with no ESRB ratings.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    20. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      Emulators? They do have internet access down under as well, you know. Thepiratebay.org is still at thepiratebay.org. If they want to play GTA, they can play GTA.

    21. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Deuterium224 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Surely anyone importing Hentai games would enjoy being spanked by Customs officials?

    22. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Yes but a few of the games that are banned or may be banned in the future are console-only games, meaning you need an emulator to play them.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    23. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      It depends on if your intent/purpose is to import it from elsewhere. Making something scarce and making something illegal are vastly different, even if on the surface they have similar results (in some cases)

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    24. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by drsmithy · · Score: 3, Informative

      if you import it, won't they confiscate it (assuming they find out or catch it passing thru customs)?

      No, and that's the difference. You can own it, you just can't sell it (or rent it out, display in public, etc).

      Unless the content itself is illegal, you're allowed to own unclassified films, games, etc.

    25. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Slashdot+Suxxors · · Score: 1

      Or a hacked console. I have my 360 hacked, and it's well worth it if you're patient enough for the process.

    26. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that is an important distinction to make. It's really silly to not have a classification for adults.

      I can understand why they wouldn't, seeing as here in the US it's nearly impossible to enforce, but if a scheme of this sort has held out for this long in AU, I doubt that they'd have that sort of trouble.

    27. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I believe that is because Nintendo doesn't want to have materials meant for one market available in a different one. Sega wasn't wild about that either.

      Back in the day the main reason for the master/genesis difference was so that you couldn't play games that were sent to the other market. I believe now you can buy a combo unit that will play both, but back then you had to get the console itself.

    28. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by spir0 · · Score: 1

      do you have any links to the statutes that cover this stuff? I'd be keen to see how it compares to here in NZ..

      Here, if stuff hasn't been rated, then it gets confiscated, but again, that's a different situation to having been actually refused classification. From what I've heard from those who have had stuff confiscated (I'm talking underground comics back in the '80s which the govt really hated), if it was taken and they didn't like it, they put it in the big pile of stuff to be burned. Of course, to get something classified/rated costs quite a bit of money, so maybe that was a factor. if the owner of the confiscated material couldn't pay for the classification fee, then the material was just binned?

      dunno, but interested to find out a bit more about this..

      --
      The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    29. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by bh_doc · · Score: 1

      The problem is that game censorship in Australia only goes to R15+ which still falls into the Child category.

      It's supposed to be called "classification" (and that should be "M15+", not "R15+"). But your version is probably closer to the truth.

      The only way to get games that are adult is to have a R18+ category however the present Government (Labour) as well as the previous Government (Liberal) don't appear to be interested in passing legislation for a R18+ category. It is not intransigence on the part of the gaming lobby groups since they really want this category it is the Government.

      It's not the Government preventing it. It's one guy.

    30. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      I know that GTA3 was cut and rerated, as was SOF Payback. I don't know about Punisher or Postal though. It wouldn't surprise me if bits were cut so they could be rated MA.

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    31. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by deek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For the most part, Customs officials don't care, or just don't realise that something is on the Restricted Classification list.

      They're after the _actual_ dangerous stuff. Drugs, weapons, dangerous chemicals, etc. For the most part, they really don't give a stuff if some crusty group of conservatives say some movie or game is restricted. The customs officials will just go about their job as usual.

      Of course, if you get some overzealous official, then you'll have difficulty, but otherwise, they really don't care.

    32. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's only one idiot Attorney General. Michael Atkinson, the Attorney General of South Australia. He is the man who is wholly responsible for the absence of a R18+ rating.

      Yes, I meant to point out that it was that single idiot, I was a little overzealous on my first post. But then again that one idiot was the only thing that the "think of the children" nanny state Luddites needed to get this smacked down (it's not like we're asking for the hardcore X18+ rating here or that the average age of the Australian gamer is 25 or anything logical like that).

      Sigh, I understand that three of the other four judges actually had an understanding of the medium they were voting on but it needed to be a unanimous vote. Maybe next time they'll get it right, this isn't the first vote on the R18+ rating for video games.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    33. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by westlake · · Score: 1
      So they will play them on emulators, a few hard-core gamers may import them from the EU, US, Japan,
      .

      The key words here are "few" and "hard core."

      That does not make you socially significant or politically effective.

    34. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by MrCreosote · · Score: 2, Informative

      but you still can't import it without permission

      http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(CFD7369FCAE9B8F32F341DBE097801FF)~aP0000CPBInformation+for+Importation++Comments+from+Customs+29+June+2007.PDF/$file/aP0000CPBInformation+for+Importation++Comments+from+Customs+29+June+2007.PDF

      --
      MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
    35. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by MrCreosote · · Score: 1

      You can't, unless you get permission from the AG's department.

      http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=608705&cid=24148509

      --
      MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
    36. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that. Somehow, I think that the AG's dept isn't likely to be giving permission for people to import Fallout 3 any time soon.

      --
      Emerald Astrology
    37. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by PopeGumby · · Score: 1

      As an Australian please let me say, the Office of Film and Literature Classification (OFLC) needs to be beaten upside the head with a Cluebat, repeatedly.

      As an Australian, let me beat you upside the head with said cluebat.

      The OFLC is not in charge of creating the classifications, all they do is take a game and decide which classification it should have. If a game is too *insert problem here* to obtain a MA15+ rating, its not up to the OFLC to say "Well, what the hell, we'll give it an MA15+ rating anyway, so that people can play it." In order to create a new R18+ classification, the attorneys-general of the states have to unanimously agree to it, and that is the roadblock.

      The OFLC are just doing their job, its the AGs you have a problem with.

    38. Re:Other games that have been banned in Australia by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      Sweet, nice for those guys to make me a nice list to go buy.

  2. Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Heh, people kept voting for the idiot who promised them more largesse and more "safety" programs. Well, the safest place in our world is strapped to a bed in a concrete bunker without anything nearby that can be "harmful" or "potentially harmful". As a result, you people get what you vote for, what you beg for, and what you desire. Safety. If you don't want safety, then its best to stop voting and start living. I'm sure I've beaten this horse to death.

    --
    " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    1. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by Twisted64 · · Score: 1

      What country are you talking about? Which country are you talking from? What in God's name are you talking about?

      --
      Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
    2. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by maglor_83 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its the South Australian Attorney-General who is the problem. All the others have agreed to an R18 rating, but it has to be unanimous. That said, lately he has (slowly) been backing down and I have hopes that it won't be too long before it gets through.

      Of course, then the console manufacturers also have to allow R18 games to be run...

    3. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by JosKarith · · Score: 1

      At a guess... Australia.
      Or maybe the UK?
      Or America?
      Or pretty much any country in what's laughably termed the First World...

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    4. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by Ash.D.Giles · · Score: 1

      umm...

      Given that this recent election was the first time in 11 years that Australia hadn't voted for the conservative option, I question whether your comment isn't coloured by your own political views.
      In any case, Australia isn't run by a president, and we don't directly vote the leader of our legislative/executive branch into power. We each only voted for our local member of parliament.
      Lastly, when there are only two options of leader, and both have backwards social standpoints (see the new PMs comments on the Bill Henson furore for an example), there's not really much good in attacking the voters.

      I guess that makes my agenda electoral reform. Ergh.

    5. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by heathen_01 · · Score: 1

      Lastly, when there are only two options of leader...

      There were more than two options. Last time I checked there were 26 parties registered with the AEC.

    6. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by Ash.D.Giles · · Score: 1

      Absolutely! And plenty of independents besides.
      Now we just need to convince the australian public that we don't have the US-style first-past-the-post system, and so it is not a wasted vote if you pick a third party candidate.

    7. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by somersault · · Score: 1

      The term "first world" refers to countries that are capitalist, which are technologically advanced, and whose citizens have a high standard of living.

      Yes, it's of course highly laughable to suggest that it's better living in a first world country rather than in abject poverty. Any country that restricts the sales of computer games is obviously far behind the curve when it comes to human rights..

      I bought Manhunt in a shop here in the UK. It was crap. I don't care how much publicity the others Manhunt games get from being restricted, I won't buy them unless they actually become fun to play. We have 18+ game ratings here in the UK btw. While the UK is not perfect, I'd much rather live here as an IT monkey than become a sweatshop worker in China or India, thankyouverymuch.

      IMO causing a controversy over a computer game will only improve how popular it would otherwise have been. I had seen Manhunt in shops and not been that interested, but after the big deal that was being made over it, I thought I'd see what the fuss was about.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    8. Re:Unpredictable outcome of "safety" voting? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 1

      Or, you could just govern yourselves at the locality level or the individual level, abstain from inflicting your personal views onto the minority through majority rule, and even *gasp* stop infringing on other's rights.

      No I'm neither a "leftie" nor a "rightie". I find both choices disgusting, as with any other tax fed parasite. Your mileage may vary.

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
  3. Hilarious by Trracer · · Score: 2

    From TFA:
    In 2002, Grand Theft Auto III was tagged with an RC-rating until Rockstar removed the option for players to solicit sex from prostitutes. Players could of course still kill them, underscoring the bizarre intercultural disconnect between wanton murder (AOK!) and the biological act of procreation (impolite and evil!).

    Now that's just hilarious. Altho I suppose prostitution has nothing to do with procreation.

    --
    English is not my first language, so cut me some slack -: Om du kan lasa det har sa kan du Svenska :-
    1. Re:Hilarious by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      That's just fine, in the double standards of today sex and drugs are bad, but violence is practically state-sponsored. Thank god politicians forget all they knew about rock n roll when they get elected.

      I blame the Victorians.

    2. Re:Hilarious by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 3, Informative

      What is even more bizzare is that in Australia prostitution is legal.

    3. Re:Hilarious by maglor_83 · · Score: 1

      I blame the Victorians

      Actually its the South Australian Attorney-General holding out on the R18 classification.

    4. Re:Hilarious by quenda · · Score: 1

      > removed the option for players to solicit sex from prostitutes. Players could of course still kill them,

      In movies in Australia, you can have strong sex scenes, or violence, but not together. Thats probably what happened with the game.

    5. Re:Hilarious by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 1

      Yes, but only murdering them to take their cash. You're not actually allowed to buy their services.

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    6. Re:Hilarious by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      It is not inter-cultural just Anglo-Saxon. Probably some residual victorianism.

    7. Re:Hilarious by Alicat1194 · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the other states, but in Western Australia prostitution isn't legal, but the powers that be tend to turn a blind eye to it (except in the case of streetwalkers, as it is considered to attract unsavoury characters to the areas that said streetwalkers are plying their trade)

      --
      You can learn a lot about a person if you just take the time to inject them with sodium pentathol
    8. Re:Hilarious by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is that bizzare?

      To quote George Carlin:

      I do not understand why prostituion is illegal. Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?

      People talk about sex-slaves being forced to sell themselves for money. That's kidnapping and forced coercion and I'm pretty sure we have laws against that in most countries.

      Think about it - if prostitution was legal, these slaves wouldn't be scared about going to the police, because they wouldn't risk prison and being sent out of the country they're in.

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    9. Re:Hilarious by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      Why is that bizzare?
      You must have missed the ancestor thread. The game was banned until the ability to pay a prostitute was removed, but doing that in real life is legal.

    10. Re:Hilarious by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 1

      It is legal in most states in some form or another.

  4. Why? by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because we can. Because we know what's good for you. Oh, and think of the children, or something.

    --
    Circumcision is child abuse.
  5. The real purpose by Jacques+Chester · · Score: 1

    Is to help Australian nerds the butt of "in Soviet Australia" jokes.

    --

    Classical Liberalism: All your base are belong to you.

    1. Re:The real purpose by BlackCobra43 · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Australia, games don't rate YOU!

      Wait, pretty much that way everywhere.... :/

      --
      I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
  6. Gee, I wonder? by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if that might have something to do with it?

    Word has it that that the OFLC may only give out R18+ ratings on games when there is unanimous support from all the attorney generals in Australia. And they all agree it should be allowed, except for one asshat who wants to think of the children.

    1. Re:Gee, I wonder? by invader_vim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, sad but true. I encourage all South Australian – hell, all Australian /.ers – to let him know your feelings.

      As always, keep it polite and intelligent. Show him that we are mature enough to make up our own minds about what we deem appropriate for our own personal gaming pleasure.

    2. Re:Gee, I wonder? by Malekin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please, show a little respect. You may not agree with him but you shouldn't call him an asshat - the correct term in this case is arsehat.

    3. Re:Gee, I wonder? by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      I think it is funny to think you could possibly know what is best for you. Think of how horrible your country would be if adults had good video games?

    4. Re:Gee, I wonder? by vimm · · Score: 1

      are you sure it's not scurvy pom?

    5. Re:Gee, I wonder? by kahanamoku · · Score: 1

      From your link:

      Corresponding with the list of various "chems" are small visual representation of the drugs, these include syringes, tablets, pill bottles, a crack-type pipe and blister packs. In the Board's view these realistic visual representations of drugs and their delivery method bring the "science-fiction" drugs in line with "real-world" drugs.

      Yet in Saints Row (Xbox360) it was perfectly OK to smoke a bong and go driving around stoned? Maybe weed isn't "science-fiction" enough for refusal of classification.

      --
      ----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
  7. Mother by Xonstantine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hush, my baby. Baby, don't you cry.
    Momma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true.
    Momma's gonna put all of her fears into you.
    Momma's gonna keep you right here under her wing.
    She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing.
    Momma's gonna keep Baby cozy and warm.

    Hush, my baby. Baby, don't you cry.
    Momma's gonna check out all your girlfriends for you.
    Momma won't let anyone dirty get through.
    Momma's gonna wait up until you get in.
    Momma will always find out where you've been.
    Momma's gonna keep Baby healthy and clean.

    Replace Momma with the nanny state, and you get the general idea. You are all children, unfit to make your own decisions about how you are going to live your own life.

    1. Re:Mother by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of all the noble and respected philosophers you could have quoted, you quote from an early 1980s rock concept album envisioned by a dude now widely reviled for the pomoposity of his lyrics?

    2. Re:Mother by Xonstantine · · Score: 1

      I didn't really think Kant or Godel would be appropriate here.

    3. Re:Mother by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Who exactly is doing this wide reviling of his lyrics? I never even heard of that before (and I even checked Wikipedia's article on Roger Waters to see if I was missing something). My circle of friends tends to love Pink Floyd, the lyrics most of all.

      You seem to think that his lyrics are "pomopous", but I think they are insightful and I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so. They are very relevant to some people, not just him. But honestly, even if they were only relevant to him, would that make his creation any less enjoyable?

    4. Re:Mother by RWerp · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh oh, we're snobbish, aren't we?

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
    5. Re:Mother by Nasajin · · Score: 1

      Maybe not Kant or Godel, but Theodor Adorno springs to mind, as does Walter Lippman. Adorno being the man that showed unbounded contempt for the intelligence of the 'mass audience' and describing inital functions of state and corporate run hegemonic systems, and Walter Lippman for encouraging their usage to control the 'ignorant masses.'

    6. Re:Mother by WingedHorse · · Score: 1

      A quote from a philosopher saying something is not any better than lyrics saying that same thing.

      Personally, I haven't ever heard those lyrics before and I think they left a lot stronger impact on me than some short quote from some philosopher I have never heard of before.

      Yes, some of us haven't studied philosophy or anything like that and Walter Lippman doesn't say anything to me.

      --
      Fine print: I work in internet advertising.
    7. Re:Mother by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of all the noble and respected philosophers you could have quoted, you quote from an early 1980s rock concept album envisioned by a dude now widely reviled for the pomoposity of his lyrics?

      For a moment there I read that as "pornoposity" and I was like "what? wtf? where?" before opening my entire pink floyd playlist.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    8. Re:Mother by krilli · · Score: 1

      I didn't really think Kant or Godel would be appropriate here.

      Don't worry about CRCulver, he's simply worried - on your behalf - about what people think. The "right" thing for you to have done was to quote an Approved Philosopher that has already been quoted by someone else, and that is not seen as pompous by Someone Else.

      Someone else that isn't here.

      I approve of your quote it was kind of awesome actually, though my approval doesn't count, as sadly I can't be a Someone Else as I am real.

      --
      Jag pratar lite svenska.
    9. Re:Mother by aproposofwhat · · Score: 1

      Look - Culver's read some books, so he's special, and not to be trifled with in matters metaphysical.

      Just ignore him - it's better for the temper :o)

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    10. Re:Mother by S3D · · Score: 1

      I didn't really think Kant or Godel would be appropriate here.

      Goedel would probably think it's an intricate conspiracy to kill him.

    11. Re:Mother by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      "Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb?"

      God that song is so depressing. I 3 The Wall as a whole though.

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    12. Re:Mother by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Amazing that this is part of our cultural history, yet the impact of its influence means nothing politically, it just helps us be more comfortable while our arse is slammed tight in the trap.

      Fuck it, break down those walls you slack bastards!

    13. Re:Mother by aproposofwhat · · Score: 1

      LOL - I was considering a G&S reference, but thought it too obtuse :o)

      Culver's more Pooh-Bah material than Major-General Stanley, though...

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    14. Re:Mother by crotherm · · Score: 1

      He just doesn't get them. Pink Floyd is one of Rock's true gems. Consider the album Animals . It is a great critique of the condition of man. The album art was also very good.

      --
      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
    15. Re:Mother by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I bought the Roger Waters "The Wall: Live in Berlin" SACD not so long ago, and it is absolutely fantastic. I was 9 years old when that concert was held, and I wouldn't have understood had I been there.

      It's things like that, that make me really wish I had lived during such times. That concert must have been powerful to those who had lived in Berlin during the Cold War. I had but a small taste from the SACD. But it was good.

      And yes, completely agreed. Animals was a fantastic album. Whatever happened to modern music that nothing of that caliber is created anymore?

    16. Re:Mother by crotherm · · Score: 1

      There might be many potential greats, but there are so many avenues for us as listeners to chose from. We could easily miss something great because of all the noise. Back then, there was the radio. And we had great stations. Now radio blows for the most part.

      And yes, I guess I am getting old, so stay of the grass will ya! :)

      --
      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
    17. Re:Mother by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      You might be right. But I still haven't seen anything in modern music that compares to the greats of the past. I honestly believe that the main reason for that is that bands went from playing live shows to making albums. When that happened, the dynamism of the live show was lost. I'm not saying that Pink Floyd was all that dynamic (they were actually quite static), but it served to lower the bar.

  8. We do know why it was refused classification by Tallweirdo · · Score: 5, Informative

    A copy of the OFLC Board Report on Fallout 3 can be found at Australian Gamer.

    Basically, Fallout 3 has been refused classification because the majority of the Board consider that the use of "Chems" and specifically the Morphine chem to provide advantages in combat contravene the National Classification Code.

    From the text of the report it appears that renaming the Morphine chem to 'Painkillers'(or some other generic name that is not a prescription drug) and changing the icons presented in the menu for selecting chems will be sufficient to get the game classified MA15+.

    I have no idea why Fallout 3 has been singled out like this when other games such as Max Payne, Bioshock, Haze and the original Fallout games all have similar drug use.

    1. Re:We do know why it was refused classification by AceofSpades19 · · Score: 1

      so they did this because you use morphine in the game?, you would think it would be something alot worse

    2. Re:We do know why it was refused classification by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      My first thought was the ability to kill children, assuming they kept that bit from the earlier two games.

      IIRC, they had to make "no kids" versions for Germany with those. I'll be surprised if they keep that in at all this time, though, considering this is the same Bethesda that gave us child-free Morrowind and Oblivion (and man, once you realize it, it really sticks out)

    3. Re:We do know why it was refused classification by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Australia has a big difficulty with heroin abuse. We have shooting galleries where addicts can shoot up safely, methadone programs that sate the addicts with dangerous pharmaceuticals, yet we still have a serious heroin problem. We are close to many south east asian countries which produce opium in large quantities, and are the recipient of these illegal imports.

      While this is just the typical reactionary 'protect the children' bullshit it does have a fairly legitimate basis in trying to reduce the impact of smack on our kids.

    4. Re:We do know why it was refused classification by Nephilium · · Score: 1

      Nope... Bethesda took out the Childkiller option. Kids apparently run away if you hit them... Bethesda's line on it was that they wouldn't be able to sell the game anywhere if you could kill children...

      Ignore the first two games... they couldn't be sold anywhere...

      Nephilium

  9. Here's the answer .... by deek · · Score: 1

    http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/07/olfc_report_why_fallout_3_was_banned_in_australia.html

    In summary: from the OFLC report, it was the drug usage in the game. More information in the article.

    It's pretty sad really. I wonder when Michael Atkinson will step down from office, so that we can actually get a forward thinking attorney general for South Australia.

    In the meantime, we import.

  10. Stimulant? by Psychotria · · Score: 4, Informative

    Since when has morphine been considered a stimulant?

    1. Re:Stimulant? by crossmr · · Score: 1

      I'm allergic to codeine (and probably morphine as well, but I've never taken it). It makes me hyper and paranoid.

    2. Re:Stimulant? by erikina · · Score: 1

      That is just an allergic reaction to codeine (and not the morphine it breaks down to). Might not be a bad idea to have a small dose to test. Anyway, the GP is correct, morphine is certainly not a stimulant. But in the game it is not really used as such, more a way to ignore damage. (Although, they really should have used PCP)

      And in reply to the article - As an Australian I feel as if the government has lost touch. I haven't refined the thought, but I don't like the idea of political parties. It always ends up coming down to voting for the lesser of two evils, else you throw away a vote on a party that you support but has no hope. (or that's how it happens in practice)

    3. Re:Stimulant? by F'Nok · · Score: 1

      Vote throw away?

      Perhaps you missed it on the voting forms, but we have the option or supplying complete preferences when we vote. It's never a throw away.

      Preference who you like, then just make sure that of the two evils the one you like least gets the higher number (least preference).

      Such a comment might be valid for single voting systems; but, Australia is NOT one of them. Vote wisely and preference.

    4. Re:Stimulant? by erikina · · Score: 1

      I fear you must not understand instant-runoff voting. Your non-first preferences only count in the event of one party not receiving a majority. It's just like having a second ballot, but only need to vote once (And you say what you would do in the case of a run off).

      So yes, the best way to stop someone getting elected is by voting for (giving 1st preference) to its strongest competitor. (The lesser of two evils). Just like the "single voting systems".

    5. Re:Stimulant? by _merlin · · Score: 1

      That's not how it works in federal elections (I believe Tasmanian elections do work like that, though). In federal, and in most states, it works like this: the 1 votes are counted, and the candidate with the least 1s is removed; votes are moved up to fill the gap; this is repeated until only one candidate remains. As an example, I live in the seat of Melbourne; suppose I voted 1 for Liberal, 2 for ALP and 3 for Green; Liberal got the least 1s, so this is removed from everyone's votes, and my vote effectively becomes 1 for ALP and 2 for Green; now Green has the least 1s, so it's removed and my vote is effectively 1 ALP; only one candidate remains - ALP has won the seat. Of course, in real life, there are more than three candidates, so there are more iterations, but that's how the algorithm works. The parent post was correct.

    6. Re:Stimulant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      While morphine itself isn't a stimulant (it's classified as a central nervous system depressant), clinical research suggests that one of its metabolites (morphine-6-glucoride) acts as a stimulant and at high plasma concentrations can provoke seisures. That being said, the usage of it in the game is out of context. Morphine-induced analgesia works is more likely to sedate you than allow you to ignore physical damage.

    7. Re:Stimulant? by LilBlackDemon · · Score: 1

      Preferencing doesn't really factor into IRV, because it completely disregards any other votes with the exception of your current #1. Preferential ranked voting (like for Most Valuable Player in most US sports) can be gamed pretty easily, however. Someone else get into specifics, I'm lazy today.

      --
      freeflux-powered open-source blog
    8. Re:Stimulant? by F'Nok · · Score: 1

      I think the GP may be misunderstanding the difference between a majority and a plurality.

      If your most hated candidate gets a majority up front (that's greater than 50% !) then it doesn't matter if you voted for a third party OR their strongest competitor. There's no difference, they've already won.

      In the case of a plurality (One candidate has more votes than the others, but not 50% of the total) then the votes are divided as you have explained and then your preferences really do count, and of the two evils you always get a full vote to whichever you choose; unless you're in a seat like Melbourne where one of the evils didn't make the final two - likely due to people using such preferences!

      It's almost always reduced to a two party race to decide then winner, because to win someone must pass 50% total vote.

  11. I sense a disutrbance in the force.. by plasmacutter · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's as if millions of australians fired up their ebay and bit torrent clients.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:I sense a disutrbance in the force.. by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean there's a million of us Aussies that didn't have them open already,

      There's always a 6 month delay between when a show is aired in the US and when they air it in Australia (supposedly they've cut that down to a few hours or days, they say streamed live form the US but I doubt Americans are watching Lost at 3 AM) but I can verify that as I stopped watching TV years ago. Beyond that we're sick of being bombarded with ads, many of us will not pay upwards of A$50 a month for Foxtel (Pay/Cable TV) to be bombarded with ads and many good shows just aren't aired over here.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:I sense a disutrbance in the force.. by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

      There's always a 6 month delay between when a show is aired in the US and when they air it in Australia

      Same around here (Denmark). Sure, part of it comes from texting (we don't dub anything but children's programs), but one of the niche channels manages to show The Daily Show (fully texted and ads removed) with two to three days delay. With the time difference that's down to between 37 to 63 hours.

      Very respectable, especially when they manage to do really nice translations of puns and jokes that wouldn't work in direct translations.

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
  12. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by donaldm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually the PS2 game called "Oni" and now the PS3 "Haze" (never played it) has drug usage. I wonder how these got passed by the censor. Of course you can look at most games that have "herbs" (eg Final Fantasy and Resident Evil) or those healing orbs (god knows what's inside of them) and medical packs and you have some sort of drug reference implied :-)

    --
    There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  13. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by mrbluze · · Score: 1

    Isn't morphine still widely used in military applications?

    Yeah maybe, but not as a stimulant. If the game designers think that's what morphine does then fair enough, ban it until they replace morphine with amphetamines.

    --
    Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
  14. Back to the standby plan then. by NoobixCube · · Score: 1

    I'm all for anything that boosts The Piratebay's ad revenue. Bethesda should sue the OFLC for this, as it directly harms their sales.

    --
    Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
  15. Simple really, Aussie law is limited. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Simple. Australian law only allows for games to be rated MA15+ (suitable for fifteen year olds and higher) at the strongest. In fact, this is the only restricted rating available to games in Australia; as all others are merely guidelines. This game was deemed unsuitable for fifteen year olds and therefore had to be unrated.

    NZ law allows video games to have the same ratings as movies, so the game could take an R16 or R18 rating here. It's not uncommon for us to see video games for sale that have "banned in Australia" as an advertising gimmick (and usually carrying an R16 or R18 rating). Also, the increased range allows the NZ cheif censor to have more descretion in dealing with things like this. See here.

    US law doesn't have any ratings at all (merely industry guidelines.)

    1. Re:Simple really, Aussie law is limited. by chakkerz · · Score: 1

      Interesting point. We might be able to import the game from NZ with greater ease than from the UK then.

  16. Oh well. by Mystery00 · · Score: 1

    As annoying, ridiculous and stupid as this is, it won't actually stop anyone from getting the game through other means. They're just kidding themselves, and eventually we'll get the R18+ rating for games, because that's what we want. It's just a matter of time.

    --
    "we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
  17. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

    True but is it that much of an issue anyway? It's a fictitious setting so they could have called it "Inventium" if they'd wanted.

    [strokes beard a little] Of course that wouldn't have generated any free publicity, would it?

    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  18. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by mqduck · · Score: 1

    Morphine is a painkiller, thus its military use in cases of injury. It's also a sedative. Take enough and you'll drift in and out of sleep uncontrollably. Except for matters regarding potency-per-amount, half-life and speed of onset, morphine = opium = Vicodin = endorphines = heroin = methadone, etc..

    Opiates (those things I listed above) are definitely not performance-enhancing, though. Why exactly they (supposedly) decided to make it a stimulant is beyond me. Just a guess, but maybe their logic is that it allows you to ignore pain, thus continue fighting on.

    --
    Property is theft.
  19. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by mrbluze · · Score: 1

    Of course that wouldn't have generated any free publicity, would it?

    No, never, how dare you insinuate! ;)

    --
    Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
  20. obvious answer, Mad Max by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fallout is an obvious competitor to the Australian national saga. Iceland has its sagas, India is vedas, and Australia has Mad Max. This is just protectionism.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  21. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    I think the problem here is that they are actually referring to a real drug. In this case morphine. According to some other poster, they would be able to get an R15+ rating by simply changing the name of the drug in the game to "painkiller", or something generic like that.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  22. Re:"ibid. - Re-Formatted" by kamatsu · · Score: 1

    Catholic & Uniting = Church of England? The Anglican Communion is NOT Uniting Church and it is not Roman Catholic. It's not Australia, it's the socially conservative politics of Australia. The ALP has always had some degree of social conservatism for the last 25 years, and the Libs.. well.. the less said the better about them.

  23. Inconsistent by Ninth+Marion · · Score: 2

    The lack of an adult category for games is just a continuing embarrassment for Australia. What's more, they don't even seem to be consistent. In the 2005 Xbox game 'Call of Cthulhu', you use Morphine in the exact way it's been described in Fallout 3, yet (thankfully, as it's a favourite game of mine) it was released under the MA15+ rating. From the game's manual:"Because it's renowned as a potent pain blocker, morphine is provided to Jack to help subdue pain that may otherwise prevent rapid movement or strenuous acts, but it does not cure him." Essentially, as you take damage in the game, you slow down and morphine will let you operate at normal speed again. Maybe they got away with it because it was linked to 'Sanity effects', who knows, but it sounds exactly the same to me. Here's hoping for some sanity from that idiot in SA on this issue sometime soon.

  24. Skylab by Urger · · Score: 1

    Oz has had a fear of anything with the word "Fall" in it ever since Skylab.

    --
    Ubiquitously - A Ubiquity Developer Community
  25. In other news... by Mr.+Jaggers · · Score: 1

    ... it's now easier to buy actual morphine or heroin from your friendly dealer down the street, than an actual copy of Fallout 3 from a retailer.

    Now isn't that an improvement?

    (ducks)

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    --

    When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
  26. Well you just said why... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    From the text of the report it appears that renaming the Morphine chem to 'Painkillers(or some other generic name that is not a prescription drug)' and changing the icons presented in the menu for selecting chems will be sufficient to get the game classified MA15+.

    Not sure about Bioshock, but if I recall correctly none of the others had use of "real" drugs.
    Painkillers in Max Payne, Nectar in Haze and various imaginary drugs in Fallouts (Mentats, Buffouts, Jet... etc.).
    Imaginary drugs are OK. You can't ban something based on depiction of misuse of something that is imaginary.

    Hell... Buffouts in Fallout had those little crosses (+) on them.
    You could claim that (since it is an imaginary drug) that it is actually the power of Jesus that gives your character extra strength when he takes them.
    Its imaginary... anything goes. You can even claim its all a placebo.

    But when you say morphine... well... that IS a real drug.
    "I've been using morphine all this time, and it has significantly reduced my pain levels and helped me win in this game."
    You can't say you are not promoting drug use if your character goes around high as a kite on morphine or whatever - cause it gives him/you the advantage in the game.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  27. Nice of you making it into a poem... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    But it is no where easier to read that way, than when it was a text-brick few posts above.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  28. Re:Blitz : the league? by Salamande · · Score: 1

    "The League" is different from the older "Blitz" series; it focuses on the shady, scandal-ridden side of the football world, as much off the field as on it. It revels in injuries and late hits, even showing close-ups of bones breaking, and lets you "juice up" when the pain becomes too much to bear. It's a surprisingly brutal game.

  29. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 1

    Well, there is nothing in TFA that implies that *Bethesda* called morphine a stimulant. I can very well see its painkilling effects being described in game terms in such a way that a reviewer might later explain as a stimulant, though . Or maybe the pcworld guys are just klutzes, I reckon that's a pretty credible theory too.

  30. Re:Blitz : the league? by LilBlackDemon · · Score: 1

    B:TL had drug use, just like Fallout 3. You could juice players up with steroids.

    --
    freeflux-powered open-source blog
  31. If its the by BigJClark · · Score: 1


    Drug classification, then its a slippery slope. so fallout3 has stimpaks and jet, how much different is that from magic mushrooms in mario and healthpacks in [insert random fps game]

    Its a game, for the love of FSM. And I'm quite sure, bethesda will model the results of drug use accurately; you're stronger, smarter, faster, better looking, and all the chix dig you...

    --

    Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    1. Re:If its the by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      I remember what a pain Jet addiction could be in Fallout 2. In the short-term it increased your agility, but if you didn't continue to take Jet at least a couple of times a day after that first hit, your character would go through terrible withdrawals that would keep him up at night in cold sweats and play "spin the dials" on all of his primary attributes at random. It was pretty salient and realistic -- do hard drugs and they will wreak havoc on your body.

      Of course, a bottle of rotgut and a shot of "Psycho" never really hurt anyone that badly ... in fact "Psycho" saved my characters from certain death innumerable times.

      I don't know what the situation is for Fallout 3, but in Fallout 2 you had the option of murdering every child you ever saw in the game, which prompted a "European version" of the game that had no children whatsoever. Maybe that's the issue? Total speculation (I didn't RTFA) but I think that the whole child-killing thing was probably the most controversial part of Fallout 2.

      The effects of that were represented fairly accurately in the game as well -- killing even a single child would result in your character getting the karma tag "child killer," and wanted posters of the character popping up in every major city. After a short time, the character is eventually subjected to random encounters vs. bounty hunters on the overland map, who gradually become more powerful over time. Eventually you had to contend with bounty hunters who had suits of power armor and fully-automatic mini-guns.

  32. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Oni called it a hypo spray.
    Stimulants and analgesics in a sub-dermal injector.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  33. Re:Isn't morphine still widely used in military? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    "go/no-go" pills - amphetamine
    http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"