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Mother Sues After Bebo Story Hits Press

slick_shoes notes a story out of England: a woman named Amanda Hudson is suing six national newspapers for defamation and breach of privacy after they ran stories based on her 15-year-old daughter's exaggerated claims about her party, published on her Bebo site. The party was held at the family's £4m villa in Spain, and the daughter's account claimed that jewelery had been stolen and furniture and a television set thrown into the swimming pool; in addition there were claims of sex and drug use. The mother says that this was all falsehood and exaggeration. A number of newspapers picked up claims and photos from Bebo and ran them nationally. From the article: "The case is expected to have far-reaching consequences for third parties who use or publish information from social networking sites. Lawyers say it could place a duty on all second-hand users to establish the truth of everything they want to republish from such sites."

305 comments

  1. Editors? by TheSkyIsPurple · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > Lawyers say it could place a duty on all second-hand users to establish the truth of everything they want to republish from such sites

    Isn't that what newspaper reporters and editors are for?

    1. Re:Editors? by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fact checking is so last century. In the NEW and CONNECTED world of WEB 2.0, flash-mobs in the blogosphere fact check everything for you!

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Editors? by metamechanical · · Score: 1

      Newspaper reporters and editors are there to keep ad revenue coming in, and ensure that people want to keep buying subscriptions.

      --
      If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
    3. Re:Editors? by jeiler · · Score: 1

      Fact-checking is so pre-Web-2.0.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    4. Re:Editors? by Rinisari · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I bet she'll win this one.

    5. Re:Editors? by topham · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thankfully you said 'Newspaper' editors, if we held the editors around here to that standard there would be no stories!

      Seriously, this is stupid; her daughter published the 'facts' as it were. She may have a claim, but her daughter should be enjoined from having a claim.
      If I tell you I'm a drunk, and you publish it I can't later say that it wasn't true and sue you for publishing it.

    6. Re:Editors? by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 5, Funny

      That reminds me of how Fox News is constantly discussing crazy online rumors as if they were credible facts.

      'Reports say that Obama has a taste for kittens! What a devastating blow to his campaign! Surely he will lose ground in the animal rights voting bloc. We'll cover this next on our 3 hour special "Barack-uriosity Killed the Cat."'

      Hannity comes in: "So is the cat out of the bag on the Obama campaign? MySpace reports....." and so on and so forth

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    7. Re:Editors? by TheSkyIsPurple · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You'd think that having incorrect information would tend to dissuade customers from parting with their money

    8. Re:Editors? by Apagador-Man · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Why the fuck is this message's parent being modded insightful? Seems to me it's obviously being ironic, like... people DO use that way of fact checking, but it's only cause they are fucking lazy/retarded, not because it is last century.

      --
      In the end, there can be only one!
    9. Re:Editors? by jeiler · · Score: 1

      Oops--Spun got to it first.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    10. Re:Editors? by Spuds · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd think that having incorrect information would tend to dissuade customers from parting with their money

      You'd think, but sadly, no.

    11. Re:Editors? by oneal13rru · · Score: 1

      No. Newpaper editors have only one job, and that is to write scathing, sometimes witty editorials about things noone should waste time having an opinion on. You really need to get with the system here, much easier that way. Speaking of which, would you like a Microsoft Windows Vista Colonoscopy? Same concept.

      --
      Never disregard the raw power inherent to stupidity... they call it "dumb luck" for a reason...
    12. Re:Editors? by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd think that having incorrect information would tend to dissuade customers from parting with their money

      If that was true most of the tabloids would have gone bankrupt years ago.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    13. Re:Editors? by Candid88 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Isn't that what newspaper reporters and editors are for?"

      Yes, but what if an Editor has a really good story about a "party gone wild" which he knows will sell lots of papers but then at the last minute discovers his sources are false. Do you really expect him to cause his newspaper to loose sales?

      Remember his duty is to the newspaper company's shareholders after all, not the customers.

    14. Re:Editors? by metamechanical · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most people don't care about true things. They care about exciting things. And to them, unfortunately, the truth is usually not exciting.

      --
      If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
    15. Re:Editors? by uglydog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But what the post is actually trying to convey IS insightful.

    16. Re:Editors? by infonography · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sadly for the plaintiff the account came from a member of the family in a published journal (her daughter's website). How many times have there been stories of say Slashdot which were questionable. Then the comments started to fly.

      Still it all boils down to the daughter's web posting. It's close enough a legitimate source for a judge to toss it. If a journalist made it up out of whole clothe that's one thing this is from a direct source.

      Who may be a liar.

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    17. Re:Editors? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Tabloids occasionally print the truth. And they occasionally do fact checking... more than can be said for the "establishment" mouthpieces that are the newspapers and media "outlets" of today. All they reprint is the "government press release" because we know they never lie to anyone, right?

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    18. Re:Editors? by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tabloids occasionally print the truth.

      A stopped clock is occasionally right.

      And they occasionally do fact checking... more than can be said for the "establishment" mouthpieces that are the newspapers and media "outlets" of today.

      Do you find that when you say that face to face, people nod as if they agree with you, then their eyes sort of glaze over, then they start glancing at their watch and ... umm, gotta go - dental appointment!

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    19. Re:Editors? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually the ONLY way they can get away with it and NOT lose the lawsuit is to have said throughout the story "the young, 15 year old girl's blog CLAIMS that... etc etc."

      If they said "and in related news, etc mansion was host to a party and etc got high, knocked up and smashed a TV" that's libel/defamation. Claims have to be attributed as such. Only verified information can be claimed to be true. I wager most newssources wouldn't verify shit they run anymore than most consumers of said news sources would actually VERIFY the news sources reports.

      Prime example. Remember Die Hard 4? Remember the scene where everyone watches the bad guys take out the capitol? (or was it the white house?) Remember how the people near there go outside and see it is okay and still standing? What about all the other poor bastards who have no way of verifying or cannot be bothered or have had their government run communications get taken out? (Hence why i recommend everyone have a CB radio or ham rig in their home, even without repeaters, the chain effect works enough to cover a whole region of concerned individuals.)

      Verification, personal inquiry are both important factors of stories, and journalists have discovered that yellow journalism works. Why report a "claim" as a "claim"? Because it keeps the libel cases away from your door.

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    20. Re:Editors? by jim.hansson · · Score: 1

      cant loose sales you never had, have you been listning to much to some RIAA/MPAA smuck?

      --
      preview button, my computer does't have any preview button
    21. Re:Editors? by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Reports say that Obama has a taste for kittens! What a devastating blow to his campaign! Surely he will lose ground in the animal rights voting bloc. We'll cover this next on our 3 hour special "Barack-uriosity Killed the Cat."

      Does he huff them?

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    22. Re:Editors? by dedazo · · Score: 1

      The trick is to append a question mark to your headlines.

      That way no one can accuse you of anything even when you repeat (and embellish) the most outrageous bullshit.

      See also: Faux News, Slashdot, Digg.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    23. Re:Editors? by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      Didn't stop our good buddy W when it came to the Nigerian Yellowcake Uranium not actually being sold to Iraq. Complete bullshit is the news of the day.

    24. Re:Editors? by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Informative

      To quote John Swinton:

      "There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    25. Re:Editors? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pff. You guys need to learn how the business works.

      Day 1: "Daughter claims rich family had a drunken orgy party!"

      Day 2: "Mother claims daughter told an 'embellished' story about the party"

      There you go. A story and a retraction. Both of which are perfectly legal and true. The mother can sue all she wants, but what she should be doing is stringing up her daughter by her pinky toe. Instead, we end up with...

      Day 3: "Family sues newspapers for reporting embellished story"

      Even more sales! (Cha-ching!)

    26. Re:Editors? by linal · · Score: 0

      As the article didn't say what news papaers are beign sued comment can't really be made. If they are broad sheets then their job should be to make sure that published content is factual and correct. Tabloids like the sun and the mirror, editors are only there to fill some space in the office.

    27. Re:Editors? by Shimdaddy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.

    28. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Lawyers say it could place a duty on all second-hand users to establish the truth of everything they want to republish from such sites

      Isn't that what newspaper reporters and editors are for?

      And that's what they did:
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1022756/Trail-destruction-British-familys-4-4m-Marbella-villa-400-crash-Facebook-party.html

      Note the interviews with the mom, party-goers, and the citation of Bebo for the quotes about the mom hitting her daughter.

    29. Re:Editors? by neuromancer23 · · Score: 0

      Along with Fox News

    30. Re:Editors? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 1

      Once it gets to ad hominems (as it just did) I'm thinking mayhap this subject is not worth discussing. As for the newspapers around here, you can tell their slant on a story, and if you ask questions of the individuals involved and find out ten times more than what was quoted in the paper. (As I live in a small town at the moment, I can actually verify this very easily when it is mentioned in the papers).

      Generally the papers tend to overemphasize bullshit stories, and the really heavy stuff ("Federal Reserve to avoid raising rates while printing enough worthless paper money to double the national debt" would've made a hell of a headline, but was completely avoided. "Congress a bunch of pandering weaklings" would've made a hell of a headline, but was avoided. "Is your vote worth anything except validating the next cookie cutter ruler?" Lots of good thoughtful headlines could run in the papers. Discussion could be started in the so called "public fora" but the newspapers have ceased to be the "public fora" fora long time (pun intended).

      As far as I'm concerned, and quite a few I've known, you're actually getting more up to date news from muckraker sites and muckraker publications. I even have an acquaintance who reads most of the stories that even manage to hit the mainstream occasionally and he reads them a few months in advance. Not even online. Newsletter subscription. Generally his are more detailed than those run by the papers on Page A24 on the next to last page... by which point most people have stopped reading, have used the paper to wrap breakables or have used it to line the bird cage.

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    31. Re:Editors? by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do you find that when you say that face to face, people nod as if they agree with you, then their eyes sort of glaze over, then they start glancing at their watch and ... umm, gotta go - dental appointment!

      shit, that's the funniest thing i've read in days. I have a friend who whenever the davinci code is mentioned has to interject an earnest, "its totally all true!!!1!" The nod -> eyeglaze routine is pretty well established now. Some people are just so stupid that they cannot tell the difference between critical evaluation of information and counter-establishment = true.

      --
      Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
    32. Re:Editors? by deweyhewson · · Score: 4, Informative

      "If they said...that's libel/defamation."

      You are 100% correct. I worked for a newspaper once and my editor would constantly hammer into us that we had to "quote, quote, quote!" If somebody said something, we were to write it as "somebody said something".

      Anything not attributed as a quote is viewed as fact in the news, so quoting is of utmost importance when reporting anything that has not been proven to have occurred; if not for accuracy's sake, at least for liability protection. People will sue, and win, over the smallest details that were reported as fact when they were not verified as such.

      As a side point, any journalist who uses an online post as a source without further research is nothing short of a shoddy reporter.

    33. Re:Editors? by sortius_nod · · Score: 1

      It's actually "a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day". :)

    34. Re:Editors? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse Fox News Channel opinion/editorial shows with actual news carried by local Fox affiliates. (That being said, the things that get picked up in those opinion shows are nearly as ridiculous as your example...)

    35. Re:Editors? by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Sadly for the plaintiff the account came from a member of the family in a published journal (her daughter's website).

      Not quite so simple. First the daughter is only 16. Second I don't know how this particular site works, but it may be only accessible to members. No matter how easy is is to join, that would be different from "publishing" to all and sundry. It's at least nominally a private communication.

      Regardless of legality, it was a sleazy thing to do and I have no sympathy for the newspapers. They should have sent reporters to the actual scene and confirmed the story. Slashdot publishes all kinds of unsourced rumours and hoaxes someone blogs about. That's why they have no credibility. When you pay for news you expect a bit more.

    36. Re:Editors? by bhima · · Score: 1

      That has been the Slashdot editorial stance for 10 years. No doubt it is still in the FAQ... you can check it out.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    37. Re:Editors? by the_womble · · Score: 1
      It might be what journalists are supposed to do. It is not what they do.

      I just read an excellent book on how the media works. It does have a website: Flat Earth News, but I strongly recommend reading the book for the mass for the detailed and complete picture.

    38. Re:Editors? by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

      Yeah and that was classical journalism that presented both sides of the story and researched facts and evidence to support those sides.

      In modern journalism, it is more of an entertainment value and very one sided, and facts and evidence are not researched any more and they take people for their words. So if the girl posted it on her social networking site that is fact and evidence enough for reporters and editors to publish it for the ratings and attention the story will get for their advertisers. Not all reporters and editors are like that though, but some are.

      --
      Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
    39. Re:Editors? by Minwee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Those tabloids are the best investigative reporting on the planet.

      But go ahead, read the New York Times if you want. They get lucky sometimes.

    40. Re:Editors? by bryce4president · · Score: 1

      Page A24 can't be the next to last page. All newspapers run even numbers of pages. Front and back, not matter how you slice it there are even numbers.

      There, fixed that part for you.

    41. Re:Editors? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      So did they blow it up? I can't see from over here in Germany. Too many trees and planets in the way.

    42. Re:Editors? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      The trick is to append a question mark to your headlines.

      That way no one can accuse you of anything even when you repeat (and embellish) the most outrageous bullshit.

      See also: Faux News, Slashdot, Digg.

      I've decided that the technical term for that should be Punctuation Punditry (c/o Jon Stewart). I wish we had that tag for Slashdot stories, but I haven't been able to figure out who/what decides on which tags are shown.

    43. Re:Editors? by gnick · · Score: 4, Funny

      Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.

      We disagree.

      So do we.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    44. Re:Editors? by MilesAttacca · · Score: 1

      Talking to yourself isn't a sign of insanity, thinking that a second person answers you is a sign of insanity.

      --
      98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
    45. Re:Editors? by pembo13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      For those who don't get it - MIB

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    46. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention Fox "News"....

    47. Re:Editors? by daedae · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      See, I was going to write that, but I figured I'd just get modded down for using a tired meme, so...

    48. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that word...blogosphere...it makes my skin crawl.

    49. Re:Editors? by Zemran · · Score: 5, Funny

      You are argueing with someone that cannot get through 3 words without swearing about what is insightful??? You will not last long here :-))

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    50. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, anyonw who don't get it will immediately know what MIB is.

    51. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A stopped clock is exactly right more often than a clock that loses/gains time :D

      I think something else is in play. Ever play poker? Sometimes you bluff. Sometimes you have a great hand and you play it like a great hand. When you get called, you can display your great hand to the world. The next time you bluff, people will think twice. People are strange that way. If you published 19 true articles and 1 false one, people will remember the false one. But if you publish 19 false and one true, people will be more likely to believe the false ones.

    52. Re:Editors? by KGIII · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I can take the karma hit so... In Soviet Russia tired memes mod you!

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    53. Re:Editors? by Zemran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A Russian friend of mine once said that the difference between the east and the west is that in the east we always knew it was propaganda. :-)

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    54. Re:Editors? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      10 megacorporations like Viacom, Time-Warner and Disney control something like 95% of all media in the US. If you don't think that those media outlets (TV, Radio, Newspaper, you name it; in some towns, ALL media is literally owned by one of the superconglomerates) are mouthpieces for their owners, then you don't understand capitalism. It makes things very simple: Follow the money. This leads to understanding of all things under capitalism.

      At the same time, tabloids have broken some major stories that the major news outlets won't touch, so both parts of his statement are one hundred percent factual. HOWEVER, "occasionally" doesn't really do the ratio of crap to actual news justice. This isn't harry potter. Batboy is not your dad.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    55. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're complaining that newspapers are slanting the news because they don't run headlines like Congress a bunch of pandering weaklings?

      You're a moron. Go back to reading your tabloids for "news" read in exactly the inflammatory sensationalist way you like it.

    56. Re:Editors? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Not quite so simple. First the daughter is only 16. Second I don't know how this particular site works, but it may be only accessible to members. No matter how easy is is to join, that would be different from "publishing" to all and sundry. It's at least nominally a private communication.

      Not unless the ToS both says that you can't share any details you learn there outside, and is enforceable. If I send you an email, that is nominally a private conversation, but you can publish it if you're not under NDA or something.

      Regardless of legality, it was a sleazy thing to do and I have no sympathy for the newspapers.

      Sure, they should have confirmed. But then, the girl wrote about it in her blog. I mean, if it's her blog, and she made the posting, then she said it was true. If they reported it was true, and then said anywhere in the article that they found out from her blog, then I'd think they'd have a defense.

      Slashdot publishes all kinds of unsourced rumours and hoaxes someone blogs about.

      This is from an inside source, who is named. This is not an unsourced rumor. Try again though.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    57. Re:Editors? by mrjimorg · · Score: 1

      So, the Yellowcake we removed wasn't really there? http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080706/D91O8E100.html

    58. Re:Editors? by horza · · Score: 2, Funny

      Referring to yourself as we is a sign you are either the Queen or schizophrenic, not insane...

      Phillip.

    59. Re:Editors? by guaigean · · Score: 1

      What if it's a 24-hour analog clock? :)

      http://homepage.mac.com/pete.boardman/24hourclock/

      --
      Microsoft Sucks, F/OSS Rocks. I get mod points now right?
    60. Re:Editors? by penguin_dance · · Score: 1

      Well, unless you told the reporter this was off the record.

      I was thinking about some of these high-profile divorce cases. It would be like the one spouse trashing the other and then the other spouse sues the paper for defamation instead of the soon-to-be ex.

      I'm not sure if there's any difference in that they're quoting a minor. But if there's a defamation case to be made it would be against her daughter, not the press.

      Personally, I'm betting that a lot of it is true and the mother is afraid of legal reprisals. This could really blow up in her face if the papers in question start talking to some of the partygoers.

      The UK and Europeans aren't as litigious as we are in the US, but when they file a lawsuit, they file on claims that wouldn't last 5 minutes in a US court. I remember a year or so ago when a newspaper was sued because their restaurant critic had given a local restaurant a bad review!

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    61. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps. But referring to yourself as "we" and then replying to yourself? That's a little more telling.

      -AC & AC

    62. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it wasn't from Nigeria.

    63. Re:Editors? by FishAdmin · · Score: 1

      And they occasionally do fact checking... more than can be said for the "establishment" mouthpieces that are the newspapers and media "outlets" of today.

      Do you find that when you say that face to face, people nod as if they agree with you, then their eyes sort of glaze over, then they start glancing at their watch and ... umm, gotta go - dental appointment!

      Obligatory:XKCD

      --
      Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door went nuts.
    64. Re:Editors? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was born next door to your Russian friend. Hence why I can see it clearer. I got to see alot of that until the mighty "fall of the wall" and the so called "revolutions" over there. Ask your Russian friend if the same second tier Party people are now in charge in his homeland too. I'm curious. Where I lived, the same guys who ran Operations are now "Prime Minister". The guy who ran Propaganda (they called it Education like they do in the West) now runs the military... etc. The guys coming up for 'election' each year are the same assholes who used to interrogate people if they were living "beyond their means" (i.e. if they had businesses on the side or other "capitalistic" or "unapproved" methods of living.)

      I find it amusing, I wonder if your friend does also.

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    65. Re:Editors? by gorbachev · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Web 2.0, facts check you.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
    66. Re:Editors? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A very good effort. You needed to mention the military industrial complex for maximum for top marks, though.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    67. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From your posts above it would appear that you're an American from some hick town. What the heck is a British barrister doing there?

    68. Re:Editors? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Except the source of the rumours was also the subject of them. If there is such a thing as entrapment in civil cases, then this case is it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    69. Re:Editors? by SeaDuck79 · · Score: 1

      You must have forgotten how CBS made up a story about the Bush Guard memo, then defended it even after the blogosphere had totally debunked it.

      And how Cronkite lied about Vietnam because he thought we shouldn't be there - I'm sure a couple million dead Cambodians will forgive him for that.

    70. Re:Editors? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      not if it's a 24-hour clock.

    71. Re:Editors? by RevEng · · Score: 1

      Except entrapment involves the guilty party luring you into performing the act. The newspapers didn't convince this girl to throw a party so they could report on it; she threw the party of her own volition.

      Entrapment works if a cop offers to sell you drugs; it doesn't work if you ask to buy some drugs from the cop.

    72. Re:Editors? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sigh. She entrapped them into libelling her by feeding them the story. Perhaps you were going for the funny mod?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    73. Re:Editors? by emilper · · Score: 1

      'round here the former Propaganda runs the Finances ... though it's to be noted that those in charge right now were had execution, not political, positions before 1989, which would be a rather good recommendation: if they managed to run a centralized economy for more than a day and not have it collapsing on their head, they must be real good.

      I looked once over our "Top 500" list ... quite a lot of them used to work in Foreign Trade.

    74. Re:Editors? by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 1

      For those who actually VOTED democrat, your remark should sting especially painfully, since the War In Iraq (The Wii, heh heh) was the number one issue! You probably don't live in a big city and had to drive behind people with bumper stickers that said "vote democrat" or "bush lied, people died". I've had to be stuck behind such cars staring at their bumpers quite often. They SWEPT Congress this time around. You cannot tell me that the fact that "Impeachment is off the table" is possible if these people weren't pandering weaklings. It isn't sensationalist, its fairly obvious to even the uninitiated. Seriously, an Impeachment, is NOT kicking out the president from his office, it is what is otherwise known as an Indictment... i.e. an official accusation of misconduct or crime... be it lying under oath or misconduct (clinton) or lying under oath and misconduct (GW). All they can expect is to be ousted from the presidency, retire on their fat tax consuming pension, lifetime secret service protection even IF the impeachment proceedings result in a conviction... and to write a blockbusting best seller. If it worked for Bill, it'll work for George and Richard.

      Yet impeachment was "off the table"? Then Obama goes and votes for the so called "FISA Telecom Immunity Act"? Hmmm... nope, no pandering there... none whatsoever. Won't be any pandering no matter what so called "crucial issue to voters" they back down on, will it?

      Not that I particularly like either party or any party for that matter, but still... I pity the Dems... they voted, and really thought they'd make a bigger difference than what group of liars gets to consume and hand out their tax money for the next several years.

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    75. Re:Editors? by vsync64 · · Score: 1

      And how Cronkite lied about Vietnam because he thought we shouldn't be there - I'm sure a couple million dead Cambodians will forgive him for that.

      Do tell.

      --
      TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
    76. Re:Editors? by Von+Helmet · · Score: 1

      Tabloids occasionally print the truth.

      A stopped clock is occasionally right.

      More often than the tabloids then, right?

    77. Re:Editors? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      They had an eye witness.

      The Mother needs to sue her daughter if she is going to sue anyone.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    78. Re:Editors? by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

      What definitions of insane and schizophrenic are you using, if you don't mind my asking?

      --
      Why not fork?
    79. Re:Editors? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      This is from an inside source, who is named. This is not an unsourced rumor.

      She wasn't a "source", she didn't sell her story to the press. She should have known it would get to them, but she's only 16.

      Try again though.

      Try not being a supercilious twat.

    80. Re:Editors? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Reporters print "According to X person: Y happened".

      Even if "Y" is complete fantasy, the article is still factual (Person X did say Y).

      It is unlikely a newspaper would merely print "Y happened"; based on what one person wrote.

    81. Re:Editors? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      She wasn't a "source", she didn't sell her story to the press

      If some reporter overhears me telling the guy in the next stall that JFK was shot by CIA agents, but "don't tell anyone I told you!" then I'm an anonymous source.

      Journalists are not gods. None of them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    82. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got google. Use it.

    83. Re:Editors? by laejoh · · Score: 0

      You are argueing with someone that cannot get through 3 words without swearing about what is insightful. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

    84. Re:Editors? by Zemran · · Score: 1

      I live in Azerbaijan at the moment... it is still the same here. The only change is that those in power make more money and the ordinary people make less.

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    85. Re:Editors? by cryptodan · · Score: 1

      Do you find that when you say that face to face, people nod as if they agree with you, then their eyes sort of glaze over, then they start glancing at their watch and ... umm, gotta go - dental appointment!

      No thats just their "ADD/ADHD" kicking in.

    86. Re:Editors? by ribit · · Score: 1

      But if you tell someone else (Bebo) that you are a drunk, the Daily Mail shouldn't be allowed to then run news saying you are a drunk based on your Bebo posting. You may have been joking, for example. The Daily Mail should report only something like "topham claims to be a drunk on social networking site".

    87. Re:Editors? by david.peace · · Score: 1

      Not if you're Rupert Murdoch.

    88. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can just as easily google for the quote.

    89. Re:Editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once it gets to ad hominems (as it just did) I'm thinking mayhap this subject is not worth discussing.

      I'm sorry, but you sound like a furry.

    90. Re:Editors? by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      As soon as you posted AC, I decided you were 100% wrong. Until then, I thought the parent was giving headlines that were as biased as the sort of fluff stories we see all too often, in the mainstream media today, just biased in the opposite direction. But since you disagree with him, and stoop to name calling, but don't have the courage to use even a slash-nym, I have to side with him. If he's a moron, anything I could fairly, unbiasedly and honestly call you, would look like the ultimate example of flamebait.
            To put it more bluntly, you are making the extremist nutcase look good by comparison.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    91. Re:Editors? by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      Not only does it look pretty damned doubtful if she has a claim, but in the U.S at least, the publisher can bring up the daughter's claim that she was hit and the mother wishes to cover that up, as a reasonable defense, and question witness on that point, and so the mother would be risking criminal charges to seek the civil suit. Normally, if charges were brought, the publisher's attorney would first bring a motion to suspend the civil trial until the criminal one was over, and then make a motion to introduce the results of the criminal trial into the resumed civil one, if the mother didn't agree to drop it with prejudice.
              Suing in these circumstances is a stupid act, as you are betting possible years in prison, having your name plastered all over the papers in three inch high letters with derogatory headlines, and losing in such a way you have to pay all the opponent's fees, against your chance of success. Just ask Leona Helmsley, whose tax evasion conviction stemmed from civil suits with a bunch of contractors she stiffed, what fighting and losing a merely civil suit can lead to.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    92. Re:Editors? by infonography · · Score: 1

      16 is underage but...

        on the net nobody knows your a dog.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  2. What an age we live in. by AkaKaryuu · · Score: 1

    Now anybody's journal and stories can be handed over to newspaper presses at any time. But is the newspaper actually responsible? I mean, her daughter did publish this to a public forum... doesn't that make it fact under the law of wikiality?

    1. Re:What an age we live in. by daedae · · Score: 5, Funny

      Although it's true the papers should have fact-checked... isn't the daughter ultimately the one responsible for the false information? I guess suing one's own, minor, daughter probably doesn't make the same ch-ching sound.

    2. Re:What an age we live in. by shalla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Publishing something does not make it a fact. It simply makes it published. If the information is not true, you can still get your pants sued off, as these newspapers are finding out.

      That's why you should always check your sources. Learn to protect yourself from libel suits.

    3. Re:What an age we live in. by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      If you publish the fact that it was published, then you are publishing facts. For example, if you say "George Bush is the anti-Christ" you are not publishing a fact, but if you say "Uncyclopedia says that George Bush is the anti-Christ" you are indeed publishing facts.

      If your mainstream media newspaper quotes some kid's blog with attribution, then it is indeed publishing facts.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:What an age we live in. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Publishing something does not make it a fact. It simply makes it published. If the information is not true, you can still get your pants sued off, as these newspapers are finding out.

      That's why you should always check your sources. Learn to protect yourself from libel suits.

      IANAL, and laws surely differ between countries, but wouldn't reporting the source, and stating "according to [source]" remove the liability (as long as the reported source is your source, of course)?

      I don't think everything should be checked before publishing -- sometimes, stories are breaking news, and you don't want everybody else to publish it before you while you spend valuable time verifying it. But that's when you reference the source, so people can check for themselves, or judge the merits of the claims.

      In this case, as long as the newspapers stated their source, and didn't try to present the happenings as facts instead of claims, I don't see that they did anything wrong.

      Instead of spending lots of money on losing a lawsuit, perhaps the mother instead should spend it on getting her daughter some help? It seems pretty clear she needs it, if the alleged statements of the mother are to be believed.

    5. Re:What an age we live in. by quanticle · · Score: 1

      The issue is, "Who did the publishing?" Arguably, its the daughter who did the initial publication by putting up the story on her Bebo page. If the newspapers attributed their facts to the initial source, then they're arguably not at fault, since they had no reason to believe they weren't publishing the truth.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    6. Re:What an age we live in. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      But if reporters did that they'd get scooped! It is so much better just to grab a press release, edit it slightly, and hit publish. Boom - you get all the clicks from your sensational story and the advertisers don't really care if it ends up being true as long as they get impressions...

    7. Re:What an age we live in. by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't you be able to point to the source? The girl is guilty of defamation, not the papers.

    8. Re:What an age we live in. by shalla · · Score: 1

      If you publish the fact that it was published, then you are publishing facts. For example, if you say "George Bush is the anti-Christ" you are not publishing a fact, but if you say "Uncyclopedia says that George Bush is the anti-Christ" you are indeed publishing facts.

      Unfortunately, last I knew in the US at least, it was not that easy. IANAL either, or a journalist, but I played a journalist in college (and don't really miss it), and if you publish that according to so-and-so, an event happened, you can still be sued if the event did not happen. That's why you need to be really careful what you say in print--you can't just get Mr X. on the street to say something happened and then quote him and get off the hook.

      I'm not going to say this doesn't happen, because it does, but according to the legal folks advising us during my college years that was still a legal suit waiting to happen.

    9. Re:What an age we live in. by pbhj · · Score: 1

      I guess suing one's own, minor, daughter probably doesn't make the same ch-ching sound.

      And I'm guessing they're insured in some way against libel/defamation claims and their lawyers have confirmed that theirs a loophole that allows them to sue their daughter.

      CH-CHING!

    10. Re:What an age we live in. by pbhj · · Score: 1

      Publishing something does not make it a fact. It simply makes it published.

      In which case it would be clear that the newspapers aren't claiming this as fact and there's no case to answer.

      If on the other hand you're trying to claim some difference between online publication and publication on paper then I think you've taken a serious wrong turn.

      Self-publication is still publication.

    11. Re:What an age we live in. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, last I knew in the US at least

      Last I knew, the UK had its own legal system. And like everyone else, you're missing the point - that the girl posted the story about herself.

      What facts need to be checked? Surely the best source of facts about me is myself? Let's say I tell you I shag sheep (and stick a photo of me doing so on my website), and you publish that according to me I'm a sheepshagger. If I then sue you, it'd get laughed out of court. If I lied in the first place then effectively I libelled myself. If I told the truth then the fair comment defence applies.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:What an age we live in. by 2short · · Score: 1

      Filing a lawsuit doesn't make the other guy wrong.

      In this particular case, it looks like they did check their sources, and had good reason to believe the reports were true. Taking into account all the information now available my best estimation is still that the reports are true, but that admitting it's all true would be problematic for the mothers ongoing divorce case.

      Protecting yourself from losing legitimate libel suits is a good idea. Protecting yourself from having frivolous libel suits filed against you is impossible.

    13. Re:What an age we live in. by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Seems like a case of unfit mother to me.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  3. Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Rycross · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact that some party thrown by a rich 15 year old girl is national news is kind-of depressing. Am I missing something?

    1. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Jasonjk74 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was wondering the same thing. How is this "news for nerds?" Because it involves that amazing, new-fangled social networking?

    2. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leave Bebo alone!:(

    3. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by snowraver1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      OMG!!! WTF do u mean BIG parties r al ways noows i want 2 go!!!11!!!!1! OMG WTF LOL!1!!

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    4. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by pha7boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that newspapers published the account is not "news for nerds." The story is just background for what actually is important news - namely that there could be precedent in the UK for holding news organizations accountable for publishing second hand information without fact checking.

      I wonder if the "compromise" will be that from now on newspapers will add "as reported on [insert blog name here]" on every such story meaning that they would pass responsibility for accuracy to the original source.

      --
      -- All this knowledge is giving me a raging brainer.
    5. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      To only Amanda Hudson I can find is a camera operator. She's done some pretty big movies, but I don't see why anything in her life would be in the news. Maybe she's related to Kate Hudson. Anyway, I find the amount of attention rich people get in the news to be way over the top.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Deagol · · Score: 1

      What's even more sad is there is (was?) a US TV show along the same lines. "My Sweet 16" or something. I haven't watched TV in years, so I don't know the specifics. However, I've heard word of the show online. Youth, beauty, and wealth -- the pillars of the entertainment industry.

    7. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 4, Funny

      News for nerds scandal would be a linux distribution CEO's son inviting Bill Gates to his house for dinner while his parents were on vacation believing he was having wild parties with drugs and sex.

    8. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You're only depressed because you weren't invited.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by tweak13 · · Score: 1

      That Amanda Hudson is a film loader, not a camera operator, and since neither of those positions really gets paid the big bucks I'm guessing it's not the same person.

    10. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by VdG · · Score: 1

      Papers have been doing this sort of thing for years, often passing stuff off as their own stories or original comment. They might be able to protect themselves by attributing the tale but I think that there must be a limit to that. If a politician puts some wacky stuff in their blog it might be news, but if my young nephew does the same thing it certainly isn't.

      But also, if you suddenly discover that half the stories in your local paper have just been pulled off the Internet, might you not think that you're wasting your money and can just read the originals yourself?

    11. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this new? I didn't think the laws for defamation in this country protected anyone reporting rumour, even if they state clearly that it's just a rumour and even if they cite the source. If it's not true, or if it's malicious, and it damages someone's reputation then it's defamation, right?

    12. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Minwee · · Score: 1

      The story is just background for what actually is important news - namely that there could be precedent in the UK for holding news organizations accountable for publishing second hand information without fact checking.

      Now if only there was also some way to hold the government in the UK accountable for passing laws without fact checking, then you'd be on to something.

    13. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      I think it's wonderful. That means that of all the shitty things that could be happening today, the worst, most interesting thing is that a 15yr old rich girl exaggerated on her myspace page?

      (Of course the cynic in my says that in actuality, all it means is that the world news media have entirely sold out and report only this trivial fluff INSTEAD of anything that actually matters.)

      --
      -Styopa
    14. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the "compromise" is that newspapers already do add "as reported on [insert blog name here]" on every such story meaning that they would pass responsibility for accuracy to the original source.

      Fixed that for ya.

    15. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Duh, the party wasn't news on Slashdot. What made it news here is that it involves social networks, privacy/censorship and litigation about stuff on the internet, which are pretty hot topics here.

    16. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      The fact that some party thrown by a rich 15 year old girl is national news is kind-of depressing. Am I missing something?

      Yes. The being rich part. Don't worry, I miss it, too.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    17. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If it's not true, or if it's malicious, and it damages someone's reputation then it's defamation, right?

      And what if they are reporting someone else's account of the events? Are they responsible if someone else lies to them? It isn't a rumor. It's a first-hand account by the person that threw the party. They didn't interview her, but they took the story directly from her public account of events. Did she defame herself? If this wins, I can see people posting all sorts of newsworthy stuff that's lies and makes themselves look bad and sue if anyone ever mentions it. Because, whether you think this is right or wrong, that's the effect. Someone publically advertised false facts that made them look bad, then sued when they were relayed unaltered (well, with minor modifications, since it was one person that posted the original piece and someone else suing, but they are in the same family and acting together).

    18. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by alexdw · · Score: 1

      There is a separate paid and credited "film loader" position? What do they do while the camera is running, go have an extended "coffee break" with the other addi^Wactors?

      --
      Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow.
    19. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be great if newspapers had to cite sources for their claims as well as maintain the full edit history for any published piece that is later altered. But then the rich would not be able to keep power over the poor by feeding them false information on a regular basis.

    20. Re:Rich teenage girl parties are news? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      The fact that some party thrown by a rich 15 year old girl is national news is kind-of depressing. Am I missing something?

      I don't think you've ever read one of the 'free' papers distributed in London (and presumably other places too). For instance, the home page of 'thelondonpaper', unavoidable outside most subway stations (people are paid minimum wage to hand it out to commuters) currently tells me that some people were stabbed last night (real news), about some stupid singer, a 'pop princess', Big Brother's 'Sexy Session' and how to win a trip to Greece.

      What's even more depressing is that people actually appear to read this crap.

  4. Forget Social Networking News.. by teknopurge · · Score: 1

    How about making sure everything is legit before holding it out in public as-such? It shouldn't matter if it comes from Myspace, Bebo, or the LAPD - it should all be verified, in triplicate.

    1. Re:Forget Social Networking News.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about making sure everything is legit before holding it out in public as-such? It shouldn't matter if it comes from Myspace, Bebo, or the LAPD - it should all be verified, in triplicate.

      Especially if it comes from the LAPD

    2. Re:Forget Social Networking News.. by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      NOW you tell us! Where were you before the Iraq war? Gees, to think that the media shouldn't just publish corporate and government press releases before seeing if they had a shred of truth - what a concept! This will revolutionize news reporting!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    3. Re:Forget Social Networking News.. by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      it was verified.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  5. Truth in Reporting? by oneal13rru · · Score: 1

    Noone wants truth in reporting, the newspaper should countersue for potential loss of profit and defamation of journalistic reputation! People want drama, gossip, and shock value rumor mongering, what ELSE are they going to talk about for days and days???

    --
    Never disregard the raw power inherent to stupidity... they call it "dumb luck" for a reason...
    1. Re:Truth in Reporting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh - but the only way you could justify talking a low-grade scandal that you knew to be a lie was to pretend that it's true, which requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance. Because of the amount of complexity involved (telling something you know to be a lie/exaggeration to someone who you know is aware that it's a lie/exaggeration, yet you are both pretending it's true to support a mutual frenzy of shock and disgust), you can safely assume that no-one who persists in this massive group effort of cognitive dissonance is merely an idiot. Therefore, anyone who continually buys scandal-sheets is intentionally and cynically undermining the fabric of democracy (viz. an informed and educated society) - therefore, Fox News is a terrorist organisation! Quickly, arrest them before they can attack us!

    2. Re:Truth in Reporting? by oneal13rru · · Score: 1

      im down

      --
      Never disregard the raw power inherent to stupidity... they call it "dumb luck" for a reason...
  6. Excuse me by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Your privacy is invading our public.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:Excuse me by Fozzyuw · · Score: 1

      So true.

      Mrs Hudson said her daughter has also suffered greatly because of the breach of her privacy. "Jodie is 15 years old," she said. "She did not consent to the publication in the media of any photograph of her or her party, or of any material that she wrote on her Bebo site."

      What does she think a website is, if not media?

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    2. Re:Excuse me by MaXiMiUS · · Score: 1

      A series of tubes!

      --
      It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
    3. Re:Excuse me by ribit · · Score: 1

      I think we have to take a stand to stop the internet being treated more and more as 'media'. What about Slashdot? Isn't this more a message board, not media? Are all our posts to each other be considered 'news publishing' now, or can we still have one-to-one and group discussions with a reasonable expectation that it is treated as such?

  7. So why is it the paper's fault? by Shivetya · · Score: 0

    If she published it on the web how does her age protect her? Actually how is someone to know the age of the publisher within reasonable certainty?

    If the mother should be mad at anyone it is at the daughter. This is just one big "duh" case. Its sad to see that "lack of self responsibility" crowd exists on both sides of the pond.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:So why is it the paper's fault? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      It's the newspapers fault for printing untrue and damaging stories. The defence: "but that's what they told me" is what you'd expect from a 6 year-old, grassing up a friend who did something bad. The publishers have a duty of care to verify the information they print, and must accept the consequences for being wrong. However, that does not mean the originator of the story is completely blameless - but they're not professional (I use that term in the loosest possible way) journalists.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  8. I hope so by Herkum01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I hope that they succeed. It would is nice to know that when they actually claim it is news, it is not a piece of fiction more in line with Harlequin romance novels.

    1. Re:I hope so by 2short · · Score: 1

      "I hope that they succeed."

      Why? There are multiple witnesses confirming the story as printed, and one mother with an obvious motive to lie claiming it's false. But she must be right, because the press are the bad guys!

  9. Exaggeration! by gparent · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The party was held at the family's £4m villa in Spain, and the daughter's account claimed that jewelery had been stolen and furniture and a television set thrown into the swimming pool; in addition there were claims of sex and drug use. The mother says that this was all falsehood and exaggeration" Yeah. The villa is only worth £3.5m. And it was actually a DVD player that was thrown into the swimming pool. Oh and there was no drug use, only sex.

    1. Re:Exaggeration! by Korveck · · Score: 1

      So you were at the party? How was the sex? Ummmm wait, why are you on slashdot?

  10. Buy a dictionary.. by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hey, bitch - buy your daughter a damned dictionary and have her look up the meaning of the word "publish".

    Then you look up the word "parent" and do your fucking job (hint - it doesn't involve suing a third party when your spawn does something stupid).

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:Buy a dictionary.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Err, assuming a decent parent should look over a 15 year-old's shoulder every time she posts, what's the problem? She's writing an amusing account of her party for her friends. The question here is, does that fact that it was displayed on a (semi)public site mean that the press can publish personal details about it? You need to chill out a bit.

    2. Re:Buy a dictionary.. by vic-traill · · Score: 1

      Thank Christ. There is a sane person in this world. Thank you, R2.0; I thought I was going fscking nuts for a few minutes there.

      Summary: Spoiled daughter has a party that's too damn big and extravagant for any 15 year old, lies about it on the god-damned *Internet* (not to three friends the next day in the smoking area outside school property, or any other forum where one might have some expectation of privacy), newspapers pick up the story and publish the daughter's bogus account, and the mother, just to be sure the kid hasn't caught sight of a decent value in the whole process, sues the newspapers.

      And as a chart-topper, /. engages in a dialogue on the responsibilities of newspapers, fer chrissakes, rather than parents.

      --
      [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
    3. Re:Buy a dictionary.. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It was a public site, in that anyone can see what she wrote, not "private" tagged or anything of that nature.

      Err, assuming a decent parent should look over a 15 year-old's shoulder every time she posts, what's the problem?

      No decent parent should have to look over their 15 year-old's shoulder for all Internet postings. Values should have been instilled long before that. The parent should be confortable with the actions of the 15 year old, knowing they will do the right thing. That wasn't the case here. The parent is taking no responsibility for throwing a lavish party for her spoiled brat. The parent is taking no responsiblity for teaching her child to not lie about it in a public forum. The parent is not contacting the paper for a clarification, but her first apparent communication with someone being a lawsuit shows the values she has and has passed on to her little brat.

  11. would it make a difference by Altus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If they had written a story about the blog entry?

    It seems to me that you couldnt possibly get in trouble for saying "According to her blog on myspace.com little suzy rich girls party got out of hand and someone threw a TV out the window"

    I mean, thats certainly a true statement. If that would be acceptable to print without verifying the truth of the actual event then this isnt going to have much of an impact one way or another.

    Personally I dont like the idea of a news paper regurgitating a blog as truth. Its one thing to refer to the blog, they way you might refer to another publication (ie "ABC news called florida for bush at 10:30").

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    1. Re:would it make a difference by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A newspaper or TV station should ALWAYS identify it's source. This attitude that seeing it online is somehow equivalent to being an eyewitness is silly and dangerous. I hope they lose this stupid case just so we can get some journalistic integrity back for when it matters.

    2. Re:would it make a difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to me that you couldnt possibly get in trouble for saying "According to her blog on myspace.com little suzy rich girls party got out of hand and someone threw a TV out the window"

      I mean, thats certainly a true statement.

      The problem with this line of reasoning is you can then report any fiction you make up as long as you put a "an anonymous source reported" on the end of it.

    3. Re:would it make a difference by vux984 · · Score: 1

      If they had written a story about the blog entry?

      So the front page of every newspaper next week should be: "Two headed alien michael jackson baby!"... ... according to an eye witness who posted on his blog, Michael Jackson gave birth to a 2 headed alien child. Pictures were also on the blog, and blogger insists they aren't photoshopped too!!...

      It may be the truth that some blogger posted this, but that hardly makes it 'news' or makes the story satisfy any sort of journalistic integrity.

    4. Re:would it make a difference by explodingspleen · · Score: 1

      That it's a blog is not really relevant if they verified it was the actual girl hosting the party making the claims. She could just as well have sent an email or made a podcast or even telephoned them herself. Direct testimony in any form is still direct testimony.

      I see nothing wrong with republishing the direct claims of a person on how their own party went. The only way you should possibly be liable for libel is if you post something contradicting what they say when what they say happens to be true.

      I mean, it's a freaking story about a party. You shouldn't need to send an investigative crime lab over to validate every assertion of the hostess.

      If anything the only case the mom has is against her own daughter for slander.

    5. Re:would it make a difference by Altus · · Score: 1

      Don't people regularly do that now though? Its a daily occurrence in sports reporting where "An official close to the club" reports that somebody is going to be traded to another team. It also seems to happen fairly regularly in financial and political reporting.

      I don't put much stock in anonymous sources.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    6. Re:would it make a difference by Altus · · Score: 1

      No, not every paper, but there certainly are papers like that. If the New York times started reporting on Michael Jacksons 2 headed alien child I suspect their readership would fall and they would end up in supermarket checkout isles.

      I'm not saying that's the best thing but I'm not sure that those "aliens ate my baby" rags are destroying the media.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    7. Re:would it make a difference by Altus · · Score: 1

      Ill give you that. I dont really see where this case has a lot of merit, but I guess it depends on how they reported their source.

      Obviously this topic is pretty brain dead but if a paper reported stuff in blogs as truth in other areas, without verification or identification of the source, that could be a problem. What if next time the paper runs a story based on a 9/11 conspiracy blog.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    8. Re:would it make a difference by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Yes, that would make all the difference. If you specify your source, you absolve responsibility for the claim. If you phrase the claim as a declarative, then you yourself take on the responsibility for its veracity. I haven't read any of the stories, so I don't know how they phrased it in this case.

    9. Re:would it make a difference by vux984 · · Score: 1

      No, not every paper, but there certainly are papers like that.

      That is precisely the point I am making.

      If the Wall Street journal wants to write 'news' articles reporting on the 'fact' that 'these are the contents of someone's blog', then while legal, they are reduced to super market tabloid status.

    10. Re:would it make a difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand the reasoning behind allowing for anonymous sources and the special productions afforded to reporters and their confidential informants, but these days, they are used so often that whenever I hear someone say, "My anonymous source said..." I replace it in my head with, "I don't want any accountability for what I'm about to say..."

      If I ran a news organization, I would tell my reported flat out: You WILL NOT use anonymous sources in your stories without my express, written approval. This is a NEWS organization, not a rumor mill, and if your anonymous source turns out to be a hoax, well, sorry. I care about the reputation of my company. You're going out the door.

      Unfortunately (or, perhaps fortunately!) I don't run such an organization, but it is nice to think about.

  12. typical irresonsible parent by speedtux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only relevant fact that newspapers needed to check was that it was actually the 15-year old daughter that put it up for the world to see. Other than that, as the legal guardian, if the mother didn't want her daughter to post this information, she should have been a better parent.

    There might actually be a case others have against the mother for defamation of character, since she is responsible for the actions of her daughter, and her daughter might have defamed them.

    I wish parents would stop blaming other people for their own failings. Until their children come off age, what the kids do and what happens to the kids is the parents' sole responsibility.

    1. Re:typical irresonsible parent by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      if the mother didn't want her daughter to post this information, she should have been a better parent.

      And the mother being a better parent would have stopped her from posting this information... how?

      Obviously, refusing to allow your children to have parties would solve the problem, but I'd hardly call that good parenting. Once you've hosted a party, what possible way do you have to stop your child from blogging on a computer outside the house and making outrageous claims? How exaggerated the claims might have been is irrelevant. You really can't hold parents responsible for their children doing stupid things online. Kids do stupid things, and today that means stupidly public things. Welcome to the information age.

    2. Re:typical irresonsible parent by citylivin · · Score: 1

      "The only relevant fact that newspapers needed to check was that it was actually the 15-year old daughter that put it up for the world to see."

      So if i post that 'speedux likes little boys' on my blog and the media for whatever reason reprints it as fact, whoes fault is that? Are you saying every lie on the internet can be reprinted by "authoritative" resources like print newspapers without them being held accountable? Sounds like a great way for editors to ruin peoples lives.

      The fact is that newspapers are considered to be factual authorities. Granted this case is rather small, being confined to the entertainment section, but the result is the same - newspapers reprinting slander and lies. Newspapers arent like a blog, people expect basic fact checking, like maybe calling the parent - before publishing a story about an underage child.

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    3. Re:typical irresonsible parent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only relevant fact that newspapers needed to check was that it was actually the 15-year old daughter that put it up for the world to see. Other than that, as the legal guardian, if the mother didn't want her daughter to post this information, she should have been a better parent.

      There might actually be a case others have against the mother for defamation of character, since she is responsible for the actions of her daughter, and her daughter might have defamed them.

      I wish parents would stop blaming other people for their own failings. Until their children come off age, what the kids do and what happens to the kids is the parents' sole responsibility.

      You beat me too it. These parents obviously only care about their own reputation and not raising good children.

      Father: Our daughter is drug addicted whore. What should we do about it honey?
      Mother: Let's sue the companies that had the gall to report it.
      Father: Brilliant!

    4. Re:typical irresonsible parent by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      If I publish libel, and you republish MY libel without ensuring its veracity, then you are ALSO liable for libel. Liability does not solely rest with the very first publisher. Each and every copy of defamatory material put into the public causes additional damage.

      When you publish something that might tend to damage someones reputation you have an obligation to ensure what you are saying is TRUE and that you are not acting out of malice. No one forced the newspapers to republish a story they didn't even investigate.

      It is not a defense to the publisher of libel that another party is ALSO guilty.

      even if, in the jurisdiction in question, parents are responsible for damages their children caused. The child was not the one who published the newpapers. Newpapers are autonomous and CHOOSE to publish certain stories, and as a result they caused additional damage well above and beyond what the blog would have done if they simply left it alone.

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    5. Re:typical irresonsible parent by speedtux · · Score: 1

      Are you saying every lie on the internet can be reprinted by "authoritative" resources like print newspapers without them being held accountable?

      This is defined by libel laws. First, saying that you put something on your blog isn't libel because it's a fact. Second, even if the newspaper reports negative information you yourself put on your blog about your family as fact, it's not libel because they can reasonably assume that you are either telling the truth or don't mind.

      So, no, newspapers cannot reprint every lie, but they can reprint lies you make about yourself or your family.

    6. Re:typical irresonsible parent by speedtux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I publish libel, and you republish MY libel without ensuring its veracity, then you are ALSO liable for libel.

      That's true provided I have reason to doubt the information. If I can reasonably assume that the information is true, I'm not libeling you. And if you report the information yourself, I'm not libeling you if I repeat it. So, if you yourself say that you hold orgies at your home, it's not libel if I report that, even if it's not true.

      The child was not the one who published the newpapers.

      The child published the information initially, and the only way she could do that is with the consent of her parents. Therefore, legally, her parents are responsible for the published information, whether it's true or not.

      It is not a defense to the publisher of libel that another party is ALSO guilty.

      Nobody is guilty because there is no libel at all. Any harm that's come to the family because of this is due to their own stupidity.

    7. Re:typical irresonsible parent by D+Ninja · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And, what, pray tell does "come of age" mean, exactly? 18? Bulls*it. A 15-year old teenager knows exactly what he or she is doing when they post the crap that that woman's daughter posted.

      Additionally, even if she was an excellent parent, her daughter could have easily posted that at a friend's house, at school or from her cell phone. You can be a good parent, but you can't monitor your kids 24/7.

      The daughter should be held responsible in this case. "Kids" need to learn to take responsibility for their actions because if they don't figure that out now, they never will.

    8. Re:typical irresonsible parent by speedtux · · Score: 1

      You really can't hold parents responsible for their children doing stupid things online. Kids do stupid things, and today that means stupidly public things. Welcome to the information age.

      I have news for you: parents are responsible for what their children do, on-line or off-line. If your kid damages something or libels someone on-line, your ass will be hauled into court for damages. In addition, your kid may face the juvenile justice system.

      If you can't deal with the responsibility, don't have kids.

    9. Re:typical irresonsible parent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish parents would stop blaming other people for their own failings. Until their children come off age, what the kids do and what happens to the kids is the parents' sole responsibility.

      Some jackass reporter writes a story in a newspaper based on a bunch of bullshit he got from a kid's blog, and that's the kid's parents' fault? Wow, you have a pretty twisted sense of personal responsibility.

      Let's remove the "on the internet" aspect of this story and think about it a bit. Let's say a reporter is walking through a mall and overhears a teenager telling her friends a made-up story about a party she had. The reporter then writes this up in the newspaper as fact. You feel that what the reporter did is perfectly acceptable and he should still be considered a legitimate reporter, and that the mother is to blame for all of the abusive phone calls that she is now receiving?

    10. Re:typical irresonsible parent by xero314 · · Score: 1

      You really can't hold parents responsible for their children doing stupid things...

      I used to think these exact same things, before I was an adult and before I was a parent. Now that I am both, in that order I might add, I disagree. Children doing stupid things is entirely the responsibility of the parents.

      It's very easy to teach a child how to act responsibly and not post lies on social networking sites. There is also the concept that parents should know what there children are doing, I happen to know what mine is doing at all times. This doesn't mean stopping them from doing anything, just being prepared to stop them from doing something stupid.

      On the other hand I don't really see an issue with a child posting a fictional story on a blog, it's just not a big deal and there is no reason to sue a paper for printing it.

    11. Re:typical irresonsible parent by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      Ultimately, the parent shoulders the entire responsibility for their children's behavior, but at some point the kid has got to learn that she, too, is responsible for her actions. What 15-year-old nowadays clears the stuff they post online (if they post at all) with her parents?* If she's the typical teenager, she would've posted far outside her parent's supervision, like a friend's house or a library.

      *Okay, I know a few, but they're all homeschooled.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    12. Re:typical irresonsible parent by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Actually, newspapers can print lies in the US. As long as they do not know they are lies.

      UK laws a quite a bit different on this. Far more restrictive.

      In the US the mother wouldn't have a chance at winning a libel suit. In the UK I believe she might win.

    13. Re:typical irresonsible parent by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      And the mother being a better parent would have stopped her from posting this information... how?

      Because she would have taught her child that lying in a public forum in order to generate "street cred" was a bad idea. It isn't about physically restraining them, it's about teaching them right from wrong and instilling the morals so that they follow the right path. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be a parent.

    14. Re:typical irresonsible parent by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have news for you: parents are responsible for what their children do, on-line or off-line. If your kid damages something or libels someone on-line, your ass will be hauled into court for damages. In addition, your kid may face the juvenile justice system.

      These days they might just charge the kid as an adult.

      Which, I might add, is fucking wrong. Responsibilities without rights are like work without pay: Slavery.

      If you can't deal with the responsibility, don't have kids.

      Couldn't agree more.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:typical irresonsible parent by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      Teaching does not guarantee learning. 15 year olds do not listen to their parents. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

    16. Re:typical irresonsible parent by speedtux · · Score: 1

      In the UK I believe she might win.

      Oh, right, I hadn't noticed that she was British.

      However, the statement may still be true depending on how it's phrased: "On her blog, the 15 year old stated that [orgies took place]." True. No libel.

      Even British law has other defenses. And ultimately, if you take the view that any statement made by the daughter is effectively made a statement by the parents, the libel also probably even falls apart in the UK: you can't reasonably sue someone for libeling you because they repeat something you publicly said about yourself.

    17. Re:typical irresonsible parent by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      15 year olds listened to their parents at 8. They learned at 8. If you are trying to teach a child at 12+ what morals are, you've already failed. That they don't listen at 15 doesn't mean parenting at all times up to that was a useless exercise. And teaching doesn't guarantee learning, but learning without teaching is nearly impossible, and teaching well almost always leads to learning. Pretending otherwise (as you have) is a useless exercise in rhetoric. For all useful purposes, one can assume that teaching leads to learning and learning comes from teaching.

    18. Re:typical irresonsible parent by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Its not libel if you post the scource.

      Unless your quoting the scource incorrectly.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    19. Re:typical irresonsible parent by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      how is revealing a source a defense?

      where are you getting that from?

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    20. Re:typical irresonsible parent by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Because your posting a fact by saying.

      "John Doe says: blah blah blah"

      Adding your own comment in response to what john says is just your opinion.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  13. I can see the headlines now... by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bebo Babe's Barcelona Bash: Burglary, Buggery, Breaking

  14. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by Madman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Newspapers have always had the responsibility to verify their stories, why should that change simply because the information's off the web?

    1. Re:Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because the person who published and the person complaining are the same person?

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    2. Re:Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by dschuetz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because the person who published and the person complaining are the same person?

      The person who *originally* published is the daughter of the person complaining.

      The people who *currently* are publishing, that is, the tabloids, are being sued (rightfully, in my mind) for essentially spreading unsubstantiated rumor.

      Look at it this way: If you're a reporter, and you tell your editor that "I've heard from a friend of a friend that this Hudson kid had a crazy party, can I do a story on it?" he'd say no. How should this be any different?

    3. Re:Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      The people who *currently* are publishing, that is, the tabloids, are being sued (rightfully, in my mind) for essentially spreading unsubstantiated rumor.

      Unsubstantiated rumor would be "I heard from my friend's sister's boyfriend's brother that that rich girl threw an awesome party." A person saying "I threw an awesome party and here are the pictures" wouldn't give a newspaper any obvious reason to doubt that the claim is true. Sure, the newspaper should publish a retraction and/or apology for publishing something that isn't true, but they shouldn't be subject to a libel case from (essentially) the same person.

    4. Re:Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by pbhj · · Score: 1

      Look at it this way: If you're a reporter, and you tell your editor that "I've heard from a friend of a friend that this Hudson kid had a crazy party, can I do a story on it?" he'd say no. How should this be any different?

      Except if the Editor reads Hudson's blog by RSS - it's like Hudson sending a letter to the Editor saying "I had this crazy party". Then (to continue the analogy with the real story) the Editor contacts Hudson, and his friends, and Hudson's family friends and looks at the pictures and they all confirm _Hudson's_own_story_.

      It's not a friend-of-a-friend it's people actually verified to be at the event publically commenting on (publishing in fact) what they did - from the horses mouth, snarf-fnar, as it were.

    5. Re:Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to BS by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The entire blog is essentially a direct quote from someone who was there. That's sufficient fact checking for most newspaper stories.

  15. Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    in hell would anyone take anything published on a social networking site to be anything but falsehood and exaggeration?

    And yes depressing it is that such a story would be national news.

    "And today in Italy kids.... PARTIED?!?! ZOMG?!?1"

  16. Should everyone be responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This includes geek bloggers, soccer moms and professional reporters. You post something with the impression that it is true and don't verify...then you should be help accountable. For example. A post recently posted ON slashdot that the RIAA MADE dell remove stereo output from some of its computers. Now it seems that it may not be so true, or again that is the rumor. If it is in fact found out to be of "no merit" that blogger/slashdot post SHOULD be found responsible for losses against dell & the riaa if they were able to make a case for that. Something to think about, just because you can doesn't mean you aren't responsible.

    1. Re:Should everyone be responsible by Korveck · · Score: 1

      News agencies hire reporters to collect news and verify them, and they need to obtain licenses and stuff to do their reports. An ordinary person does not have the resource to do the same. The responsibilities of news agencies and a random person should, therefore, be different.

    2. Re:Should everyone be responsible by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

      The responsibilities of news agencies and a random person should, therefore, be different.

      Right, but we have a gray area in the form of bloggers, 'citizen reporters', and maybe even wikis. Their responsibility and claims to credibility haven't been settled yet.

    3. Re:Should everyone be responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A post recently posted ON slashdot that the RIAA MADE dell remove stereo output from some of its computers. Now it seems that it may not be so true, or again that is the rumor. If it is in fact found out to be of "no merit" that blogger/slashdot post SHOULD be found responsible for losses against dell & the riaa if they were able to make a case for that. Something to think about, just because you can doesn't mean you aren't responsible.

      In particular the headline was "Dell Colludes With RIAA, Disables Stereo Mix". Slashdot is totally responsible for that and should be liable. The accurate and defensible headline shoud have been "Dell Accused of Colluding With RIAA". Slashdot and SourceForge really should get sued for this, and that'd be a benefit to us.

      http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/11/0128203

      The Press is free to report, the Press is not free to lie.

  17. stupid people and lazy editors by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I can't say I have sympathy with any of the parties in this case. If I was the judge, ruling on this libel case I'd want to award damages AGAINST both sides.

    For the lady and her daughter - abject stupidity. Once you put something on the internet, it's there for life - if you don't realise this, you are not qualified to use the internet. Just as if yo don't realise cars can kill, if improperly driven, you have no business being behind the wheel.

    For the newspapers - whatever happened to validating your sources? Is this something that only happens in the movies, or has the average rag descended to the point where all it does is reprint salacious and unverified fiction from all and any sources. They really do deserve to be sued out of existence in that case.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:stupid people and lazy editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget in the UK you can win the case, be awarded 1p damages and be responsible for your own costs.

    2. Re:stupid people and lazy editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Britain, the judge can actually do that. It is perfectly valid for a judge to allocate responsibility and penalties against both sides. You'll sometimes see, for example, a defendant found guilty but that the plaintiff has to pay all the costs in the case. Alternately, the judge is entitled to rule that the defendant is guilty but that the plaintiff has so much responsibility in the matter that the award they would receive is reduced or eliminated entirely.

  18. Abe Vigoda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Errorneous reporting you say?

    1. Re:Abe Vigoda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_Vigoda#Reports_of_his_death

  19. Ummm by EmagGeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The case is expected to have far-reaching consequences for third parties who use or publish information from social networking sites. Lawyers say it could place a duty on all second-hand users to establish the truth of everything they want to republish from such sites."

    Aren't journalists supposed to do this ANYWAY?

  20. Since when was there a requirement for truth... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...in reporting? Maybe they do things differently in the UK, but certainly in the US, as Fox News demonstrated, there's no such legal requirement.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    1. Re:Since when was there a requirement for truth... by citylivin · · Score: 1

      Good thing most of the world doesnt work on broken american law, or their precedents.

      Dont drag us all down to your level amerika

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    2. Re:Since when was there a requirement for truth... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      You can hope, but precedents set in American courts have a habit of occasionally creeping over the Atlantic.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  21. Privacy? What privacy? by nobodyman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the article:

    She did not consent to the publication in the media of any photograph of her or her party, or of any material that she wrote on her Bebo site

    Too bad. When you publish stuff on the internet for all of the world to see it really undermines your privacy claims. Now, if this girl only allowed her stories to be seen by those she had designated as friends, then she might have a leg to stand on with respect to privacy.

    Also, the defamation claim is curious. I haven't ever seen a case where the the originator of the false statements is the same person suing the newspapers for making false statements.

    1. Re:Privacy? What privacy? by Alistar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whoa there.

      If I post a picture on the internet, sure anyone can see it, but I still retain right of publication (or the perhaps the site that it is posted on depending on the legal mumbo jumbo).

      If I put up a poster on a University Bulletin Board with a picture of my house saying big party, that does not give you the right to scan it in and use the picture in a news story about about the big party. You can take your own, but that is still my picture.

      Same if I post a short story or poem on the internet, sure its public, anyone can see it, but its still mine.

    2. Re:Privacy? What privacy? by nobodyman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I post a picture on the internet, sure anyone can see it, but I still retain right of publication (or the perhaps the site that it is posted on depending on the legal mumbo jumbo).

      But that's not what we're talking about here. The newspapers aren't being accused of plagiarism, they are being accused of defamation and invasion of privacy.

      If I put up a poster on a University Bulletin Board with a picture of my house saying big party, that does not give you the right to scan it in and use the picture in a news story about about the big party.

      Actually, depending on the where you live and the quality of the reproduction, you may have the right to do exactly that. But again, that's not what we're talking about. If you disseminate information to the public at-large, I don't have the right to copy word-for-word what you said, but I can paraphrase it, report on it, etc.

    3. Re:Privacy? What privacy? by Alistar · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, sorry, I realize what the lawsuits are about.

      I was referring more to the parent post where he was commenting on this quote:

      "She did not consent to the publication in the media of any photograph of her or her party, or of any material that she wrote on her Bebo site"

      While his comments do admittedly more reflect the defamation suit, I found it odd that he attacked this statement, where in fact, this is their greatest legal leg to stand on.

    4. Re:Privacy? What privacy? by RevEng · · Score: 1

      Depending on the country, there are specifically exceptions for duplication as part of reporting.

      For example, if I wanted to report on the opening of a new art gallery, I would probably want to include at least one picture of the art, as illustration of the event. Without being able to reproduce (even through photographing as part of a larger scene) those works, how could I illustrate the event? Wikipedia uses this exception all of the time for including things like screenshots and company logos.

      In this case, I think it's fair to say that using the girl's photo, as an illustration of the fact that she made the photos available online, with proper attribution, would fall within fair use. If they used it exclusively as an example of the party itself, then there would likely be some case for copyright infringement.

      No matter the case, even if she didn't grant publishing rights by putting it on her blog, she certainly granted viewing rights, which negates any claims to privacy.

    5. Re:Privacy? What privacy? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I found it odd that he attacked this statement, where in fact, this is their greatest legal leg to stand on.

      I took that as you did, but then applied context. You can't be sued for defamation and violations of privacy if you find someone's photo on a kiosk in the middle of town that you know for a fact that person put there themselves if you were to copy it and send it to people. You aren't defaming them for spreading facts they already distributed. You aren't violating their privacy if they published it publically first. The copyright claims hold merit, but aren't being persued. Probably because the photo, having been released publically for no cost, has little to no commercial value (at least according to the copyright holder that was giving it away for free first). And, as such, a claim for loss because of it wouldn't get much. And an injunction against printing it a week after the issue is out would probably not be effective either. So thought it appears the only real violation of law is a copyright violation, it is also the one where a win would have the least effect.

  22. It is sad you have to ask by spun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The paper has a duty to check facts that it publishes. How do they know that the 'daughter' publishing this information is really this woman's daughter at all, and not a jealous friend who wasn't invited?

    Journalism has undergone a frightening shift in the last thirty years. Don't get me wrong: it has always been about selling eyes to the advertisers. But there used to be professional standards. People could take pride in saying they were a journalist. Journalists like Woodward and Bernstein were heroes protecting the public interest.

    Now journalism is just another branch of the entertainment industry. Any sense of professional pride seems to be gone. Truth and accuracy don't matter.

    It's not just stories like this, either. Journalists routinely slap their names on unedited press releases and call them stories without fact checking a damn thing. Politicians and businesses know that journalists are too lazy to do their jobs.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:It is sad you have to ask by pbhj · · Score: 1

      How do they know that the 'daughter' publishing this information is really this woman's daughter at all, and not a jealous friend who wasn't invited?

      Perhaps it's was the photos in the "daughter's" publication on bebo. Maybe it was the contacting of the friends alleged to have attended. Perhaps even the communications with friends of the family.?

      Who can tell? I bet she hired ninjas to sneak in and take photos of the building. Made a replica, hired look-a-likes for the girls friends and took pics of them debauching themselves. Then she, this jilted friend, paid off the family and neighbours to ensure the press would be fooled. Finally hacking into bebo and establishing the account of the so-called "daughter".

      That's gotta be how it happened.

      No, hang on, I reckon the family hired an actress to pretend to be a jilted friend and hire some ninjas ...

      Yeah, that's gotta be it.

      [The press lie, but this isn't really a case of that, this is a case of someone lying about themselves.]

    2. Re:It is sad you have to ask by RevEng · · Score: 1

      Wait, wait, wait... You're questioning whether or not this girl was actually the woman's daughter?

      I didn't see anywhere that the mother claimed that her daughter didn't make those statements. In fact, the mother specifically said that her daughter was exaggerating, which means she acknowledges the girl is her daughter.

      Now, I agree that journalism has taken a dive over the years (CNN and FOX being great examples of that), but to imply that the newspaper didn't check facts by questioning (not even claiming) that the newspaper didn't confirm the identity of the daughter is to commit one of the worst propagandist sins imaginable: FUD.

    3. Re:It is sad you have to ask by spun · · Score: 1

      Reading comprehension FAIL. I'm not questioning anything. I'm saying that newspapers should, before printing something as fact. I asked, "How do they know?" Well, if they DID check those facts, then that's how they know. It wasn't clear from the summary.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:It is sad you have to ask by 2short · · Score: 1

      "if they DID check those facts, then that's how they know. It wasn't clear from the summary."

      So you didn't RTFA and check the facts?

    5. Re:It is sad you have to ask by MacTenchi · · Score: 1

      The last thirty years?

      Ever heard of William Randolph Hearst? Yellow Journalism? The Spanish-American War? That's 1898.

      Give me a break. Twas ever thus.

  23. Definitely didn't RTFA by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would be very, very surprised to learn that they weren't having sex and using drugs. 15? Rich? Sheeeit.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  24. Wait... by Drakin020 · · Score: 1

    You publish something on the internet...but you get mad when it's exposed to others?

    Uh huh...

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:Wait... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Ask Copiepresse or the AP* about it.

      * warning: NYTimes link. DNA sample may be required.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  25. If you're interested in some pics by MaxInBxl · · Score: 1
    1. Re:If you're interested in some pics by ZwJGR · · Score: 1

      The Daily (Hate) Mail is fucking ridiculous.
      A tabloid which tries to pretend that it is a broadsheet.

      No surprise that most of the images show young gals. (some of the images I would not expect to be published by a self-respecting newspaper under any circumstances.) And where is the visual evidence for this supposed damage, that *is* what the article was about after all, no?

      Since when did reporting mean trawling myspace/bebo/facebook/whatever for pics of half-dressed girls at parties where stuff got broken?
      The state of supposedly quality media in the UK (and in many other places AFAIK) is shambolic, and shameful.

      The mother has every right to sue, and she should disconnect her daughter from the internet and bash some sense into her head while she's at it.
      Incompetence and stupidity galore from every angle.

      --
      There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face - Ben Williams
  26. Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Woundweavr · · Score: 4, Informative

    By US standards this case would likely be tossed out.

    The first story I found from the Daily Mail included getting a response from the mother, quotes from other party goers, etc

    In the words of Jodie on her Bebo page after the event: 'There's so much damage and clothes stolen. A lot of broken doors. people cauight (sic) having sex.'

    But the teenager seemed unrepentant about the chaos she caused, adding: 'I got punched by my mum for it and grounded until the summer. wat a a BITCH!'

    Mrs Hudson, who is separated from Jodie's father, yesterday denied she had hit her daughter. ...
    One partygoer, who said he had heard about the event from friends, said: 'Somebody said we were allowed to wreck the house because the birthday girl's parents were getting divorced.

    'There were kids behaving like gangsters from a rap video, throwing stuff around and smashing things. There were chairs, tables, even a TV in the pool.' ...

    Mrs Hudson had been hoping to move and had put her home in the exclusive El Paraiso development on the market.

    Friends said she told them: 'The place looked like a war zone.
    'All the banisters have been broken. The walls are ruined, the carpets are destroyed, furniture is broken . . . It is going to take months to sort out.'

    One friend said: 'Amanda is still furious with her daughter and hasn't spoken to her for days.'

    Last night Mrs Hudson played down the furore. 'Jodie had up to 400 people, but she knows a lot of people,' she said.

    'With a party that size you are always going to end up with some damage.'

    Asked about Jodie's comments on Bebo, she said: 'I don't know what she has written on her site, and I'm not saying anything else.'

    Just because the mother denies (possibly criminal, depending on how hitting her daughter occurred and what the laws are regarding serving minors alcohol over there) the report doesn't mean it was defamation or they didn't do their jobs. Maybe the quotes were made up, and maybe the pictures from the girl's blog didn't show what they seemed to (teenagers paired up in bed, passed out drunk girls, young men/teenagers carrying beer around) but we shouldn't assume that.

    According to wiki in the UK

    A private individual must only prove negligence (not using due care) to collect compensatory damages. In order to collect punitive damages, all individuals must prove actual malice.

    The US uses a somewhat similar standard. If you've got claims by the daughter, quotes from friends of the mother, and from party goers (and these are not fabricated) then to me "due care" has probably been taken.

    1. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by pairo · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      This site would count as information released to the public so using it would be the same as using a press release wouldn't it? So the reporters aren't guilty of libel if they attributed it properly as alleged by the daughter. I'd think if the site counts as actually testimony that would keep them safe from negligence I guess thats the point of contention, do web logs count as statements representative of the individual like a press release.

      And they still have the defense of truth if the daughter stands by her story. I don't think this is nearly as landmark as they say, lots of cases like this happen, they just don't involve the interwebs.

    3. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by digitig · · Score: 1

      So, interestingly, letting the 15-year-old have alcohol at a private party would have been legal at home in the UK (as a UK parent I already knew that) but was apparently illegal where they were, in Spain.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    4. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Zemran · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IANAL and all the other caveats about not knowing everything...

      I think that solicitors that encourage action when that is not good professional advice, should be ordered by the courts to pay all costs and there should be no cost to the person taking action. The mother naturally wants to take action, I accept that she is asking to take action... but the solicitor is the professional and should have an obligation to make it really clear that there is no case when there is no case. If the courts made a few solicitors pay when it was beyond doubt that they had encouraged action, then it would make the rest think twice before recommending action. Such a ruling would also cut down on frivolous claims by greedy companies...

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    5. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Lyrael · · Score: 1

      IANAL and all that, but I would assume that press releases are INTENDED for the press and can therefore be used as testimony. On a social networking site a lot of people are gonna exaggerate and embellish for the sake of having a good story to tell and because they're under the assumption that it doesn't matter. It's therefore not exactly the best source...

    6. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "IANAL and all that, but I would assume that press releases are INTENDED for the press and can therefore be used as testimony. On a social networking site a lot of people are gonna exaggerate and embellish for the sake of having a good story to tell and because they're under the assumption that it doesn't matter. It's therefore not exactly the best source..."

      I've always considered that if information is 'published' on the internet, it is all fair game. If you don't want the info to get out....don't put it out on the internet, which is a public forum.

      Geez..when will people learn that? Once an article or picture gets out there, it is fair game, uncontrollable, and it cannot ever be recalled...someone will always have a copy of it...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by The+Great+Pretender · · Score: 2

      But the story was put into the public forum by the daughter, if the story is untrue, all the papers are guilty of is poor journalism, which only affects their reputation. If the stories are true the mother should be looking at pressing charges against the party goers for vandalism, or holding the daughter responsible. If not true, then her beef is with the Paris-Hilton-wannabe who is her daughter for putting the family in the unwanted public spotlight.

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    8. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by RevEng · · Score: 1

      From the article, I can't say how they can possibly claim defamation or breach of privacy. Defamation requires making a false claim. The article clearly doesn't state that the party was out of control or things were trashed. Instead, it merely lists quotes from people who claimed to have been at the party and had seen those things. Certainly the people quoted could be cited for defamation if they intentionally gave false statements, but so long as the paper was reporting what they were told (obviously from multiple sources), then they aren't making anything up.

      I also don't see how they have a case for breach of privacy. The daughter and friends all gave open, willing statements of the events -- it's not like the reporters had to pry this information from them. Also, the fact that the daughter's account of the events were posted on a publicly viewable site designed to be viewed by complete strangers, they certainly had no expectation of privacy.

      In the end, this sounds like a rich parent trying to cover up their dirty laundry. It's nothing new to see a person sue for defamation when somebody prints the harsh truth about them. Lawyers seem all too happy to jump on the opportunity. If only these people could use some of their time and aggravation to look introspectively and handle the situation maturely, rather than ranting and raving.

    9. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with your post is the story you use -- is this one from the lawsuit or not? Your whole post is premised on this news article, the first you found in a search. Basically, your post is the factual equivalent of a strawman. Yes, you can beat down the lawsuit by using an example of a news story that is not from the lawsuit. But, then, you have not really addressed the lawsuit at all. So, please, tell us, why should we listen to you?

    10. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The article clearly doesn't state that the party was out of control or things were trashed. Instead, it merely lists quotes from people who claimed to have been at the party and had seen those things.

      That isn't automatically a defence. By choosing which claims to publish and how those claims are presented as a whole, you are making a statement of your own. If you only publish those claims which fit a particular version of events, don't make any attempt to verify the claims, and publish them in the context of a story which is entirely predicated upon the assumption that the claims are true, you could still be culpable.

    11. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by Eternauta3k · · Score: 1

      You want some tags?

      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
    12. Re:Assuming the mother is telling the truth by ribit · · Score: 1

      The posting may have been publicly accessible, but there is a difference between a Bebo user communicating anything with users of Bebo (both registered and public visitors), and then the press portraying this as 'news'. The Daily Mail simply reported the postings depiction of events as fact, when really they should have reported that that "Bebo user x has said that...". Thats seriously not the same thing, and they should know better. If I post on Bebo that I have stopped beating my wife, I would expect to be able to sue the Daily Mail if they then run a story claiming I have beaten my wife. (I'm not married).

  27. Social site info not true? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    You mean when I read that QT_pie3478 posted that "my partiez wuz schweet y'allzzz!!!1" that in fact, her partiez may not have been schweet after all? And that in fact, that source might not be reliable? The horror! If only there were some way to tell that the source might not be reliable...

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:Social site info not true? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got some bad news for you. QT_pie3478 isn't actually even a "her".

  28. All you need to know about this story by GrifterCC · · Score: 1

    is that it's a libel case in Britain. Judgment for plaintiff.

    To sue for libel in Britain, you don't have to be a resident, and neither does your defendant. All you have to have is one instance of "publication" (i.e. communicating the information to a third party), and you're set.

    Who said the First Amendment didn't have any teeth?

    1. Re:All you need to know about this story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's more, in britain, the truth isn't a defence in a libel case. If you badmouth someone, and what you said about them is true, you can STILL lose. It's ridiculous!

  29. Old newspaper adage by Lucas123 · · Score: 1
    "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

    They published remarks from a 15-year-old on a social networking site. Should the newspapers be surprised they're getting sued. I don't think so.

  30. Maybe I'm just synical but.... by tecker · · Score: 1

    Wouldnt this be perfect way to make some cash?

    Stay with me here:
    1) Throw lavish party and get shocked by bill.
    2) Post story exaggerating the facts.
    3) Hope newspapers to pick up the story and run with it. (Sweet they did!)
    $) Sue! Its not a real story!
    5) Profit!!!!!

    Call me crazy but this is really sad. I hope they dont get away with it. Whichever side is wrong.

    --
    Procrastinating life a way at a rapid rate of speed.
  31. True, copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, and that is copyright law and as such there are exceptions.

  32. I'm mixed. by kabocox · · Score: 1

    I'm so mixed on this. I think that the papers/media were wrong to invade this individual's privacy over nothing other than rumor/fantasy. So what if the girl put it up on her social networking site? She could also put up how she is dating an alien from a UFO and has been given replicator tech and used it to build her own vacation home. Would you believe it without basic fact checking?

    If my kids draw fantasy crap that they want for their next birthday and post it to myspace would the media instantly believe that I'll have real life Barbie fairies and unicorns or a real life Spiderman/Superman/Batman will attend? Come on.

    Oh, but if my kids make up a story about how they've been drinking, doing drugs, having sex or being arrested though that'll be instantly believed to be true? If any one was arrested than there should be a police report on it. I know it would be beyond the average /. user to check, but we aren't generally throwing up inaccurate information to be published/viewed by everyone under the sun.

    What if the media focused in on any given /. user for their comments about having a wild party last night? (O.k. It wouldn't be the media that focused on that user, but you get the concept.)

    1. Re:I'm mixed. by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I think that the papers/media were wrong to invade this individual's privacy over nothing other than rumor/fantasy. So what if the girl put it up on her social networking site?

      This is not a question of privacy. If you post something to a publically accessible place (AKA - no expectation of privacy, such as your bank's website) on the Internet, it's now public. Same as if you stood on a street corner and yelled out personal information - it's now public.

    2. Re:I'm mixed. by dissolved · · Score: 1

      What if the media found a /. user having a wild party?
      There, fixed that for you.

    3. Re:I'm mixed. by NiteShaed · · Score: 1

      Plausibility.

      The following items are simply not plausible:
      Dating an alien.
      Having a replicator.
      Visits from Faeries/Unicorns.
      Batman/Superman/Spider-man (the "actual" people) attend your party.

      The following items are plausible:
      Teenagers hold wild party.
      Teenagers drinking.
      Teenagers doing drugs.
      Teenagers having sex.

      A reporter can reasonably think that things from the second list actually happened, as opposed to things from the first list which no sane person would possibly believe. Basically, if you don't want people to believe something about you, don't go running around spreading the rumor yourself, especially if it's a plausible rumor.

      --
      Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  33. Who should be sued here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So the mother is suing because the newspapers reported something her own daughter wrote. Who should she be suing for libel - the newspapers or her daughter?

  34. somthing should be done.. by apodyopsis · · Score: 1

    I think the press have too much power, they do no report the news exactly - they report only news that might increase exposure or sales in such an exaggerated fashion as to further their aims.

    And in the meantime bad things happen because of this.

    In the UK they have:-
    - talked up a mass stampede to a major lender and caused it to be nationalized after most of the customers withdrew their funds.
    - numerous instances of trial by media when only a distorted representation of one side has been displayed
    - built up fuel shortages by excessively warning about lack of fuel so everybody panic buys
    - increased the repercussions of a already weakened house market by sensationalist reporting
    - probably caused to suicide of a scientist by releasing his name in response to a whistle blower report
    ...to name a few of the more serious ones.

    They seem not to care who they trample on, simply unleashing a legal army or buying off anybody who complains. In many cases simply changing the way the news is reported to a more balanced and sensible method would suffice.

    This is simply not acceptable, and people have to be held to account. Only one time can I think of a press editor, CEO or anybody being held to account and that was Piers Morgan over the faked army abuse photographs in Iraq.

    Something should be done, but I cannot think of a suitable answer. Suggestions anybody?

  35. Quality Journalism by residieu · · Score: 1

    It's so good to know that stories about a party posted on someone's web page are considered news these days.

  36. A pair of stupid rich cunts YAWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the daughter is a stupid, spoiled little rich cunt who threw a wild party then was even stupider by telling the whole world about it. The mother is a stupid spoiled rich cunt who, instead of doing a good job of raising her kid, or instead of finding an appropriate way to punish her kid and those who trashed the house, wants to sue newspapers for reporting the story (and yes it is a legitimate story.)

    I hope the mother get royally spanked over this whole mess.

    1. Re:A pair of stupid rich cunts YAWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up you cunt

  37. If my child by BigJClark · · Score: 2, Interesting


    If my child ever hosted a party that just about destroyed my house, words couldn't describe the beating said child would endure. Plus he or she (no child as of yet) would definitely have to live with the grandparents for awhile.

    And don't get all PC on me, I just don't care. My father kept me in line with fear of his hand, and I will do the same with my child.

    --

    Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    1. Re:If my child by justinlee37 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not going to get all "PC" on you, I'm actually going to bust out some child psychology.

      In research on parenting behavior, methods of control have commonly been divided into three categories. The first type of control is the use of power by parents. Such techniques, in which parents attempt to force or pressure their children to behave in certain ways, are associated with children who are less socially competent. When parents use power to control their children, the children are likely to see their choices as governed by external forces. They do as they are told but only as long as there is a power to make them. They may become passive or rebellious.

      A second type of control is love withdrawal, in which parents show disapproval for behavior that displeases them. It may include ignoring, shaming, or isolating the child. The use of love withdrawal shows mixed results in its effects on children; some studies have found it to be acceptable, whereas other studies have found it resulted in dependent or depressed children. New research on parents' use of psychological control may have identified what parts of love withdrawal are especially toxic. When parents use guilt or manipulation to control their children, the result is anxiety and depression for children. In contrast, when parents use reasonable monitoring and negotiated control of behavior, children are less likely to get in trouble.

      The third type of control is induction. Induction includes reasoning with children and helping them understand the effects of their behavior on others. For example, a parent might say, "When you yell at your sister, she feels very afraid and sad. She feels that you don't like her." Induction is the type of control that is most likely to result in socially competent children.

      There are also clear benefits for a child's moral development when a parent uses induction because induction teaches children to think about the effect of their behavior on others. Induction both activates and cultivates the child's own logic and compassion. Children raised with induction are more likely to have internalized standards for behavior, better developed moral sensitivities, and less vulnerability to external influence.

      http://family.jrank.org/pages/1244/Parenting-Education-Content-Parenting-Education.html -- this isn't exactly a primary source but it rehashes things I learned in a "Human Development" class; I just don't feel like getting super academic on you and researching/citing the primary sources. If you really care about your children enough to give them the best childhood possible, you'll do that on your own anyway -- of course, maybe you won't, after all, you said it yourself, "I just don't care." Great attitude!

      You don't know of a better way to parent a child because you were never shown how, but please, for the sake of your children, research parenting methods before having any. Don't do it the way your Father did just because that's all you know -- it is well known that power assertion is one of the least effective means for instilling intrinsic motivation into a child. What you want is for the child to internalize the reasons for their behavior, so that when they move out at 18 years old they continue to truly believe in and follow the lessons you taught them, instead of just throwing them to the wind 'cause they are out from under the harsh glare of mean ol' Dad.

    2. Re:If my child by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When you have reached the point of violence, you have already failed. If you take your hand to your child in anger, you are a failure as a parent. I am not saying that you shouldn't give your child a little tap to get their attention, but you shouldn't be harming them, and it should never be in anger. Teaching them what is appropriate is your job and it is not appropriate to be angry at the child for your failings.

      This isn't about political correctness, it's about some simple facts. Your father keeping you in line with fear has damaged you and now you plan to pass on this legacy of fear. Fear begets violence and violence begets more violence.

      I never did any crazy shit like this. I never trashed the house. The worst thing I ever did was get caught petty shoplifting a couple times as a kid; I got scared of getting busted f'real and stopped. I moved out when I was fifteen and entered the real world because my manic depressive mother drove me the hell out. (My father was an absentee alcoholic.) Even with only one parent in the home, my existence was not so permissive that I would cause any problems like this! And as a child I was good and quiet, not prone to throwing tantrums even. My mother treated me like I was intelligent and had potential, and while I feel like with more support I could have gone much further already, in general I have put at least some truth to those beliefs.

      By contrast we're seeing the effects of spoiling your child here. (Unless it's all a deliberate stunt, which is possible too.) And definitely the trustafarians I've known have been damaged in a way. They don't have a respect for your possessions because they've never had to pay their own money for anything in their lives. They have a sense of entitlement and generally walk around just crapping on people. Some of them figure it out later in life and reorganize their priorities; some of them spend their money on positive experiences rather than commercial crap and drugs and figure it out pretty early on. But rights and responsibilities were meant to balance...

      If you have to beat your child to make it do what you want, then either you need to revise your expectations, or you need to accept that you simply don't have the requisite skills to make it happen... and you need to revise your expectations. Don't take your incompetence out on a child whose development is your responsibility.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:If my child by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Do you have kids?

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    4. Re:If my child by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      Oh, God no. If I end up having to raise kids before I am 30, please find me and put me out of my misery. With a shotgun.

    5. Re:If my child by BigJClark · · Score: 1


      Interesting read, and I appreciate the citation. Nowhere in the link, however, it didn't mention anything regarding "spanking" or "physical, re-inforcement" (a term I just made up, may or may not accurately describe my intended means of discipline. Let me start by saying, I love my father, and typically after a spanking or "physical reinforcement" (hyuk) there was no guilt, no shame, no "love withdrawl", no mind games or anything equally immature. And it didn't happen often, but I knew there was a boundary, and I knew what happened when I crossed it.

      For example, if I ever, and I mean ever back-talked my mom (there was never any cursing in my household, out at the shop anything went, but never in the house) I knew I was going to get spanked. For me, there was a definite, if-this-then-that relationship.

      Furthermore, when I say, "I don't care.". Well I really don't. I don't care about government intervention, I don't care what my friends think, co-workers, I just don't give a damn. For me, all that will matter will be my child. I sometimes think that people over-analyze, read too many books on child-rearing and it clouds natural instincts. For every book you can name that states, "one should not put their children into the corner" I can find on that states the opposite. How does one navigate through the horse manure of uneducated, childless, armchair handbooks?

      --

      Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    6. Re:If my child by BigJClark · · Score: 1


      See, I just can't agree with you. Friend, I think your absentee father and oddball mother certainly disqualify your opinion here. I don't think you've seen a good model of how a successful child-rearing scenario can go. And furthermore, your insultive nature further re-inforcements your own, manic depressive tendencies that again, have no place in this discussion.

      I feel I turned out a success, I have a degree (comp sci), a long term gf, I talk with my parents once a week at the latest, my sister, same deal. We're a healthy family, and we hang out with other healthy families. I donate my time every so often to foodbanks and toy drives for kids at christmas, I help clear my elderly neighbours snow off his driveway.

      Even to this day, I respect women (partly because my older sister would beat me mercilessly, there is no such thing as the weaker sex) because I can "imagine" my dad standing behind me, hand cocked.

      You'd be surprised what a little physical motivation can do to an individual. But I do appreciate your opinion.

      --

      Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    7. Re:If my child by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      Nowhere in the link, however, it didn't mention anything regarding "spanking"

      It was left open-ended deliberately; yelling and intimidating a child is a form of power assertion, just like slapping a child in the face is also a form of power assertion.

      For every book you can name that states, "one should not put their children into the corner" I can find on that states the opposite. How does one navigate through the horse manure of uneducated, childless, armchair handbooks?

      Well the first thing you should do is avoid the "self-help" section at Barnes & Nobles like the plague. Not all books are equal -- it is filled with books written by total quacks who just state this-or-that to be true without any research or citations backing it up -- they just spew bullshit into a vacuum and people will pick it up and read it and believe it just because the asshole has a Ph.D.

      Stick to peer-reviewed articles or academic textbooks with plenty of citations and the quality of information you get will be greater.

      Taking a class on child development is a good call for any future parent, not just because of the various insights into intrinsic/extrinsic motivation in children, but also because of things that are presented such as Piaget's theory of child development, in which he defined four "stages" of childhood, and enumerated what cognitive tasks children in each stage were capable of. This can be useful for figuring out what tasks a child of a certain age is physically and mentally capable of performing.

      I only got spanked once by my Father, when I was 3, and I can hardly blame him -- I had slapped him in the face for pushing one of my meticulously-balanced plastic army men into a bucket of water. Withdrawal of privileges like using the computer or using the car was my most common form of punishment, but as with you there were never any mind-games associated with it, just swift discipline followed by affirmations of love. I suppose that withdrawal of privileges itself is a form of power assertion, but at least the message there is "if you break the rules, you will lose your freedom," which is a bit closer to how society works than "if you break the rules, I will beat you within an inch of your life."

      You will probably make it through the process without too many bumps in the road as long as you don't do over-the-top things like lock your child in the closet with only bread and water to eat and lash them with your belt repeatedly. Also, I suppose that nobody has said that using a combination of power assertion and induction is impossible (now that I give it some thought, combination power assertion/induction probably best describes the parenting style of my Father).

      Above all else, just keep in mind that you want to give your children reasons for their behavior that they can internalize. They should restrain themselves from beating their younger siblings or weaker kids at school out of compassion and empathy instead of just fear of physical pain. Similarly, it would be nice if they didn't trash the family household with wild parties out of appreciation and respect for their own home, instead of just the fear of physical punishment and being forced to live with their grandparents (an indirect form of love withdrawal).

      If the child is not intrinsically motivated to behave, then once the threat of physical pain no longer looms over them (I.E., in adulthood), they'll respond by doing the things you were keeping them from doing in childhood, like bullying their subordinates or family members, or inviting over rowdy friends who break all of their stuff.

    8. Re:If my child by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't think you've seen a good model of how a successful child-rearing scenario can go.

      On the contrary, my own father is an example of why physical abuse is not a solution; it was what was used to keep him in line. His parents stayed together until his father died.

      Even to this day, I respect women (partly because my older sister would beat me mercilessly, there is no such thing as the weaker sex) because I can "imagine" my dad standing behind me, hand cocked.

      That's not respect, again; it's fear. I respect women who are worthy of respect because they deserve it. Women do not automatically deserve respect any more than anyone else. Most men and women today are lousy human specimens.

      Respect is earned. You can have irrational fear, though.

      You'd be surprised what a little physical motivation can do to an individual. But I do appreciate your opinion.

      No, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would be surprised what it could do for an individual, though.

      Behaving because of fear is not healthy. The resulting tension tends to be released in harmful ways.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:If my child by toadlife · · Score: 1

      I thought so.

      Now, while I don't necessarily disagree (completely) with the findings of the studies that you have presented, your presentation of them as gospel suggested to me that you have had little or no experience with small children.

      Children come in all kinds, and for some personality types a good wacking in the is needed just to get their attention and/or divert them from danger. Talking with your children is golden though.

      I just turned 30 and have three children, and don't regret it one bit.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  38. Journalistic standards in UK by Venik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think reliability of information posted by a teenage girl on Bebo ranks up there with BBC World News. How else would they fill ten minutes of their daily morning broadcast with news from Zimbabwe, while their nearest reporter is sitting in Johannesburg some 1200 miles away?

    1. Re:Journalistic standards in UK by mcdesign · · Score: 1

      Easy. The BBC was thrown out of Zimbabwe by Mugabe's government. Anyone who is publicly linked to the BBC is denied access to Zimbabwe. So the BBC uses other sources of information from inside Zimbabwe, including people who aren't officially BBC journalists or even journalists. Clearly they don't want Mugabe's government to find out who these people are so they remain anonymous. The "official" BBC journalist collates this information, cross checks it, verifies it and reports on it from the safety of Johannesburg.

    2. Re:Journalistic standards in UK by Venik · · Score: 1

      BBC has a knack for being kicked out of various countries and I think the reason for that is lack of objectivity. BBC World Service is financed exclusively by the Foreign Office and this fact is reflected in the quality of their reporting. BBC World News reminds me of the Soviet "Vremya": same selective reporting and obvious bias along the party lines. I guess you can't have quality independent reporting when all of your budget comes from the government. In case with Zimbabwe, all BBC is doing is collecting unverified rumors from hundreds of miles away and recycling the same months-old footage.

  39. Money Making Scam by TobascoKid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This could be a money making scam -

    1) Post fake lurid posts on social networking site

    2) wait for press to pick up on lurid posts

    3) claim the posts are fake and sue for defamation.

    4) Profit

    No ??? needed.

    --
    At some point, somewhere, the entire internet will be found to be illegal.
  40. Is she suing her daughter, then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because she's doing exactly the same thing.

    1. Re:Is she suing her daughter, then? by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      The daughter is a minor, so presumably she's regarded as under the mother's control and the mother would be considered legally responsible for the child's actions.

      So the mother should in fact be suing herself.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  41. How long will it take by jc364 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    before people learn not to post stories that they don't want the whole world reading? I hear stories like this time after time, and its always, "They should respect my privacy." Well, guess what... if you post information publicly over a global connection that EVERYONE has access to, then you have no privacy. That said, I do think the media are idiots for taking "credible" information from the social networking page of a 15 year old girl. I think that they should absolutely be held responsible, especially for a story that is so damaging to a person's character. There's a reporter somewhere that should be fired for this.

  42. The Wrong Person by DeanFox · · Score: 1


    The other folks just picked up on the original publicized story and repeated it. Shouldn't she instead be suing the daughter for the alleged erroneous publication? Apparently they want to redefine what is considered publication for public consumption.

    As in I place a stupid sign in my garden and sue because a helicopter snaps a picture of it and use the argument that I only intended it to be seen by my immediate neighbors. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just getting older and wiser or if instead the world really is going down the flusher.

    -[d]-

  43. Yeah you just made that up by Woundweavr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Its patently false. There are places that the limit is ridiculous (UK its 5 w/ a parent), less strict (many places in Europe its 16) or identical to the US. Other places, alcohol can only be purchased or consumed at certain times, or not at all.

    1. Re:Yeah you just made that up by x_MeRLiN_x · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is it ridiculous? What possible harm could a half glass of cider or whatever given to a child by a parent under supervision cause? If more parents gave their children small amounts of alcohol as they grow up (e.g. at the dinner table) then young adults would be more responsible towards alcohol as in countries such as France. By "more responsible" I mean less likely to go out 'on the town' and far surpass their limits.

    2. Re:Yeah you just made that up by manwal · · Score: 1

      I remember some studies showing children served alcohol in the home are more likely to develop an alcohol problem as grown-ups, here in Sweden. On the other hand, that might be because children not served alcohol in the home are more likely to come from a home where alcohol consumption is unusual or none. Or maybe they just grew more receptors and become addicted more easily.

      BTW, the law here says: when you're 18, you can buy beer up to 3,5% and drink anything in your home with a parent. When you're 20, you're free to buy. I wouldn't say the law works.

  44. Another tip for journalists by operagost · · Score: 1

    Don't publish what you read on bathroom walls, either. Just a recommendation.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  45. err by Vexorian · · Score: 1

    "6 UK Newspapers published a news story based on what was posted on a social site?"

    "6 UK Newspapers published a news story based on what was posted on a social site!"

    "6 UK Newspapers published a news story based on what was posted on a social site!!"

    hmnn, nope I still can't believe it after typing it thrice, really, SIX UK newspapers published a news story based on what they read in something called Bebo? Really?

    --

    Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
  46. Absurd by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    There are a number of problems with this. In the UK the libel laws are quite different and the whole "absence of malice" defense that will get you a pass in the US does not apply. Therefore, the mother probably does have a case in the UK and will win.

    The newspaper probably did not get authorization to republish the pictures from the web site. They were not reporting on what was on the web site but stealing the content that was published there. This is certainly a copyright problem and the prior publication of the material "on the Internet" means nothing. They took the material without authorization and used it to the detrement of the girl, her parents, etc. This should be a warning to anyone that just takes material and republishes it.

    As far as fact-checking is concerned, obviously there was none and no editorial oversight. For a blog to steal the photos and commentary from a site is one thing - for a newspaper to do so should result in the reporter and editor both getting fired for not doing their job. If they had written a story about how this appeared on the web and how interesting it was without reusing the same materials that might have been a little different. Pointless, but different.

    The fact that something was put on the Internet does not give everyone on the planet the right to republish it and use it for their own purposes and/or gain. There is such a thing as copyright. It would be nice if people would understand that. Clearly we are creating a generation that has utterly no understanding of that at all. If I can see it, it is mine is the new thinking.

    I guess this is the result. Post it on the Internet and someone will steal it.

  47. Wrecked villa in Spain by Alioth · · Score: 1

    An interesting observation. This happened in Spain, and was written about on Bebo. In Spanish, "bebo" means I drink :-)

  48. Second Hand Job by No-Cool-Nickname · · Score: 1

    Media = Bad
    Teenage Girl = Good.

  49. Silly laywers by nevillethedevil · · Score: 1

    "Lawyers say it could place a duty on all second-hand users to establish the truth of everything they want to republish from such sites."

    If it's on teh interwebs, it has too be true right?!

    --
    Be gone from my sight or prepare to feel my flaming wraith!
  50. Its the end of the world!!! by damburger · · Score: 1

    Newspapers will have to verify what they print!? How the hell will they be able to lie their arses off all the time? Oh noes!

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  51. Life Lesson About Privacy by diskofish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mrs Hudson said her daughter has also suffered greatly because of the breach of her privacy. "Jodie is 15 years old," she said. "She did not consent to the publication in the media of any photograph of her or her party, or of any material that she wrote on her Bebo site."

    Looks like she learned about it the hard way. What you post on-line is public info.

  52. Sometimes by copponex · · Score: 1

    Then I hand them an after action report from the CIA released under the FOIA concerning the overthrow of the government of Iran, known as TPAJAX. I quote, with some pointers and emphasis:

    "In July support was sought from the PW [Psychological Warfare] Staff. Both the branch [of the CIA] and higher levels were anxious to have certain items, including the texts of news articles, commentaries and editorials, appear in papers in this country... This support was not forthcoming. It appeared to the branch as if the staff lacked contacts capable of placing material so the American publisher was unwitting as to it's source, as well as being able to see that no changes in theme or emphasis were made. In contrast to this relatively ineffective venture, the Iran desk of the State Department was able to place a CIA study in Newsweek, using the normal channel of desk officer to journalist... it does appear that some improvement of capabilities might be desirable. Either those contacts used to secure the unwitting publication of material should be expanded and improved, or else there should be provision made for passing material directly to cleared editors and owners of press media."

    This operation was carried out, according to the report, with 89 persons aware of it, which was "excessive."

    So, yes, there is no doubt that a small number of CIA agents illegally ousted a democratic government, using the media as part of their PsyOps. To think that such operations are not part of the government's current arsenal is completely naive.

    Check it out for yourself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/iran-cia-intro.pdf

  53. A brief history of Lala Land... by vorlich · · Score: 3, Informative

    Journalism's origins stem from the reporting of shiploads of trade goods and their arrival in port - particularly Venice and London. Advance knowledge of a ship and it's contents allowed the original speculators the opportunity to make a healthy profit. These sheets were circulated, certainly around London and Venice and it wasn't long before people used them to advertise.

    Friends of the printers (to cut a long story short) often sent lengthy letters to each other, reporting on topical events (it was before the internet) especially wars. These letters were often printed verbatim hence the origin of the word 'correspondent'.
    These reports were incredibly popular and garnered readership. Edward Mallet took the highly original step of editing them to fit the space between the ads, and the Daily Courant was born in the 1700's. Often these letters were reports of reports of reports - a bit like the internet!

    Gradually this developed into an art form and it wasn't long before reporters were despatched to write the letters themselves. War, conflict, crime and punishment and scandal soon became the daily diet of millions of readers. Then Hollywood was invented and so was the world of entertainment. Gradually readers started to prefer entertainment to 'news' - and who wouldn't? I present exhibit one 'The Sun' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun/ , which holds the world record for the highest readership of a single edition in the English language. This is closely followed by that masterpiece of twee entertainment published by DC Thomson 'The Sunday.Post' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sunday_Post/ including the immortal humour of 'Oor Wullie' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oor_Wullie/ Oor_Wullie and 'The Broons' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Broons/

    So it shouldn't really surprise anyone that people like to be entertained and since the entertainment industry is the economic dynamo of the developed nations, we shouldn't really be surprised by the sudden revelation that newspapers are in the 'infotainment' business.

    None of this is at all new, Evelyn Waugh, in 1938, lampooned the whole industry to hilarious effect in 'Scoop' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoop_(novel)/. The simple tests for 'news' is; "What is the origin of this report?" and: "Who benefits from it?" and the three eternal questions any journalist would ask any famous figure if they caught them in the elevator are: "How bad is it? Will it get any worse? And what are you going to do about". A healthy attitude of scepticism is an essential attri..


    We interrupt this broadcast to bring you ** breaking news** direct from Lynwood, California where Paris Hilton has just been released from prison having served four days of a 40 day sentence... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Hilton/

    Bias Disclaimer: I used to be a member of the NUJ and I used to teach this subject.

    --
    Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
    1. Re:A brief history of Lala Land... by lysse · · Score: 1

      Were you as careful checking your sources as you are checking your hrefs?

  54. Enough. by dsanfte · · Score: 1

    Sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, sure as the earth still turns, another day brings this tired, useless question to the comment page once more.

    "HOW IS THIS NEWS FOR NERDS??11~!?"

    Shut your whiny fucking mouth.

    Your implied aim, by hue and cry from your bitter and entitled complaining, is to turn this site into a monoculture of news that only YOU deem fit to be posted; for Slashdot's content to be wedged and crammed to fit the little box of YOUR mind's scope of idle fascinations.

    IP and libel law are subjects that certain of us nerds find interesting. It's therefore news for us.

    If, in the future, you feel a front-page story doesn't merit your personal seal of approval, walk on. One thing I guarantee no one on this site wants to read is your childish, gifthorse bitching.

    --
    occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
  55. You just noticed? by argent · · Score: 1

    Post it on the Internet and someone will steal it.

    You just noticed this?

  56. The problem with 24hour news by Matt+Perry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is what you get when you have multiple 24-hour news channels and lots of news web sites itching to have something new. There's only so much real news, and not enough of it to even fill one TV channel with content. So they have to dig for crap. This is what you get.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  57. Isn't this a clear case of copyringt violation ? by AftanGustur · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the newspapers liftet both story and pictures from the blog, then that's a clear case of "for profit" copyright infringment.

    Just because you find a story and pictures on a blog doesn't mean that they are public domain !

    --
    echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
  58. sent reporters to the actual scene? by pbhj · · Score: 1

    Really. You have a primary source - the party hosts report of the event within hours of it occuring. Including photos that corroborate the story. That's as close the "the scene" as you'll get without time travel.

    You cross check with people reported to be there, all OK so far. But these are young adults so you decide to check some more.

    You interview older adult friends of the family. Neighbours? Still checks out.

    You cross check with details of owners of the property, past reports of parties, look into the character of the individual online.

    All that checks out.

    Now you're aware they _could_ be lying so that's why you report with lines like "In the words of Jodie on her Bebo page after the event" and "One partygoer [...] said".

    If there's been defamation/libel it's by the daughter. You'll probably find that the family is insured against such losses and will take their insurers to the cleaners, allegedly.

    1. Re:sent reporters to the actual scene? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Including photos that corroborate the story.

      I looked at some of the stories. Most of the photos used were actually of different parties, and none of the photos "corroborate" the events recounted: theft, sex, vandalism. Despite the breathless prose of the house being wrecked, I did't see one picture of that. Maybe you have a link that actually does "corroborate" the story?

  59. Which Germany are you in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Too many trees and planets in the way."

    So, are you in the "Germany" on Neptune, with Uranus, Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars obscuring the view?

  60. Mandatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, facts check you!

  61. "Off the record" by Nerdposeur · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, unless you told the reporter this was off the record.

    When I worked as a reporter, people tried to use "off the record" like a magic phrase to redact my writing. All. The. Time.

    I had a police officer tell me something like, "Yes, the state has been very helpful with this program. Off the record, they haven't done a dang thing." Of course I didn't quote either of his duplicitous remarks. I'm not going to help him lie.

    When is it off the record? When we both agree ahead of time. When will we agree to that? When there's no other way for me to get the information. After all, off-the-record info is useless to me, except that it may help me to get printable info somewhere else.

    Now, for inconsequential stuff, like when the city manager says he's irritated with a loud-mouthed council member, I don't have to print that. I don't want to clam the guy up to where he's afraid to say anything in front of me next time. But I certainly wouldn't promise to take anything off the record that anybody wants, just because they said the magic words after the fact. If you're talking to a reporter, you should expect that it's on the record. Making the record is his/her job.

  62. I'm just glad by Atrox666 · · Score: 1

    I'm just glad that war, famine and disease have all been conquered and we all now have time to worry about teen house parties.

  63. Who is Bebo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bebo? Wasn't he called Bibo?

  64. RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "By US standards this case would likely be tossed out."

    No. According to TFA:

    "her lawyers say that the Hudsons employed private security guards to help supervise the private party on 3 May"

    That is going to be very hard for the defense to get around. And in the unlikely event the security guards did not do their job, then the mother can go after them or whatever company they work for. It very strongly seems like the media printed a load of nonsense and should pay the price.

  65. Link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can someone post the link to the blog in question?

  66. If the truth is that that's what she said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If the truth is that that's what she said, couldn't they try and just report that? ("Girl claims ... blah blah on bebo")

  67. So? What part of assume do you not understand? by Woundweavr · · Score: 1

    "her lawyers say that the Hudsons employed private security guards to help supervise the private party on 3 May"
    So? Even if that's true it doesn't prove the story wasn't essentially true. What part of "Assuming the mother is telling the truth" don't you understand? Furthermore, according to the mother there was something like 400 people at the party. How many security guards did you think they hired?

    Additionally, just not being true is insufficient. Libel is very difficult to win in the US. If a newspaper asked got multiple quotes and based the story on the claims of the 'birthday girl' its almost automatically not libel by US standards.

  68. Fun party by vivtho · · Score: 1
    From TFA ...

    But Mrs Hudson says the party was anything but a drunken riot. In her letter before action to the newspapers, her lawyers say that the Hudsons employed private security guards to help supervise the private party on 3 May. The letter adds that nothing was stolen; no alcohol was served or permitted; none of the guests took part in sexual acts ; the police were not called; and only minor damage was caused to one of the doors.

    Yep ... that sounds like a really fun party. :)

  69. Press Suppression or Indignant Grandstanding? by rangergordon · · Score: 1

    This was the print media, not broadcast news. Also, I haven't heard of any pending copyright-infringement suits.

    I'm not versed on the intricacies of British libel laws, but if this case were heard in the U.S., there are a few ways it could go. Most likely, the court would favor the newspapers:

    If Amanda is a public figure or a "private individual involved in a matter of public concern," she is required to prove that there was absolutely no teenage drunken revelry at the villa that night, which may be difficult in light of published photos (some of which are still available online at sites such as elmundolibro.com).

    On the other hand, the newspaper does not have to demonstrate that every word in the story was true. If it can show that there was "substantial truth" to the report, then Amanda loses.

    In some states, if Amanda is an entirely private individual with no public dealings, the court would likely accept her claim at face value that no party took place. Then, Amanda could proceed with her case.

    But, even if the court determines that the allegations are false, the newspapers have several strong lines of defense:

    If they merely reported the fact that stories about a wild party were published on a social-networking website, and if the stories actually did appear on the site, then the newspapers may claim neutral reportage. This puts Amanda in a pickle.

    In this case, she would have to prove that the newspapers published the story with negligence or malice.

    "Negligence" means she would have to produce "clear and convincing evidence" that the reporter had definite knowledge--say, from a reliable witness or by photographic evidence--that the debauched hoedown did not actually take place. (Philosophy geeks might reflect that it is notoriously difficult to prove the nonexistence of something.) Without this evidence, Amanda loses.

    To prove "malice," Amanda could resort to the mindreading trick and demonstrate that the reporter entertained serious doubts about the truth of the story when it was published. If Amanda can read the reporter's mind, and if the reporter has an incredibly incompetent attorney, Amanda wins! Otherwise, she loses.

    If Amanda gets this far, then she must also show that the words used in the story are "capable of defamatory meaning." This standard varies from state to state.

    In some states (e.g. Texas), a statement against an individual may be false, abusive and unpleasant without being "defamatory." Some states, like Illinois, consider a statement to be "defamatory" only if the plaintiff were falsely accused of an indictable criminal offense punishable by imprisonment.

    England has lately become somewhat draconian in its disregard of individual privacy. I haven't heard, however, about any British attack on press freedom. Indeed, England can lay claim to one of the finest journalistic traditions ever--the BBC may be one of the last remaining bastions of solid investigative journalism in the world.

    Given all this, I doubt Amanda has a case. However, her lawsuit--provoking so much anxiety among the Internet community--does make a good story.

    1. Re:Press Suppression or Indignant Grandstanding? by trmcdougle · · Score: 1

      Have a look at the "David Kelly affair" which led to the Hutton Inquiry which led to the BBC avoiding investigative journalism of NuLabours government (they still are in many ways) and finally look at recent discussions at the whole situation as it has become clear that the BBC were correct! Even if you are not that interested in the UK this relates to an item of interest to most of the world: the claim that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction able to launch in 45 minutes.

      As an assist here are a couple of links the get you started:-
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_David_Kelly
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

      The following seems to be a good (if unorganized) set of articles relating to this.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/davidkelly

  70. Guardian type traditional journo-hack corrections by vorlich · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sunday_Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oor_Wullie
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Broons
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoop_(novel)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Hilton

    For readers of a technical disposition, I inadvertently added a trailing slash while slapping in some wallpaper from wikipedia to make the page properly sexy for the new discerning web2 readership. And of course I didn't check anything, I'm an effing former photojournalist after all and we're pure scum.

    --
    Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
  71. Re:Isn't this a clear case of copyringt violation by ribit · · Score: 1

    Especially if its a fictional account...