MPAA Plans To Launch Movie Links Site

eldavojohn writes "To combat piracy, the MPAA's latest idea involves a site that would allow users to search for a movie and then provide links to legit legal downloads or ticket purchases for it. Why are they doing this? Because their research showed 'many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online.' And all this time I thought people pirated movies because it was cheaper to do! Turns out they were just confused."

Comments

Where do I sign up?

[elrous0]

Normally, I would pirate a movie because it's free, has no DRM, and is available at any time (even while the movie is still playing in theaters). Then when it came out on DVD or Blu-ray later, I would buy it and give the filmmaker their fair cut (I'm not not looking to rip them off, I just want a copy of the movie to play at home).

But now that the MPAA has given me a chance to pay money to download from a piss-poor selection of movies that are all crippled by DRM, all I can say is "Thank God!" I mean, what I really want is a poor quality copy of a movie that requires me to connect to the internet and get the studio okay every time I watch it, won't let me make copies or share it with friends, and costs just as much as if I went and bought it on DVD (with the added bonus of none of the DVD extra content).

Yep, the MPAA finally gets it!

Re:Where do I sign up?

[psyque]

Don't burst their bubble. The more they think they've found the magic bullet the less likely they are to sue us. heh... yeah I couldn't re-read that paragraph without laughing either.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[GigaHurtsMyRobot]

Hackers Paradise!! I want to see this site serving camcorder torrents of the dark knight by the end of the week, and the MPAA suing themselves shortly afterwards.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[spiffyman]

FTFA:the site "could include links to Fandango, Movietickets.com, Amazon, Netflix, iTunes, Xbox Live Video, Hulu, and more."

What part of that sounds like a "piss-poor selection" of "crippled" flicks? Fandango and Movietickets, at least, aren't exactly DRM purveyors. And Apple's DRM is one of the least onerous options out there, for "legit" viewing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I actually think this is a good move on the MPAA's part. I do want to know where I can get movies legally, and this could help increase competition - better for my bottom line. I'm not going to complain about what appears to be a sincere attempt to address consumers' needs.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[illeism]

Crankiness aside, I think its a fine idea instead of the strong arm tactics of the past...

from TFA

MPAA's past efforts to "help users" have

not exactly revolved around making things

easier for anyone; they have instead included

legal attacks on P2P sites, pushing for

Internet filtering on college campuses, trying

to stop DVRs from recording movies, and paying

$15,000 for the private e-mail addresses of

TorrentSpy users. But, if this initiative

turns out being as simple and straightforward

as it sounds, and if it gains enough

popularity to be widely used, then it could

actually offer something of value to consumers.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[exley]

Normally, I would pirate a movie because it's free, has no DRM, and is available at any time (even while the movie is still playing in theaters).

And you think this is OK because...

Then when it came out on DVD or Blu-ray later, I would buy it and give the filmmaker their fair cut (I'm not not looking to rip them off, I just want a copy of the movie to play at home).

Ah, ok, well gee, that makes it all better. I suppose in the end, no harm, no foul, right? But how about all those people who just do step 1 of your process, but not step 2? Or how about the movies you pirate but decide, nahhhh, this one I'm not gonna buy...

This is one of those debates I find fun because pretty much everyone is wrong. If you're getting something for free that you normally have to pay for, how is that not illegal?

On the other hand, I don't really care for the *AA's "shock and awe" style of litigation, nor do I care for their questionably legal (to put it generously) tactics (e.g. Media Defender).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

No, they'll use the lack of interest for this site as "evidence" that people are only interested in ripping them off and getting things for free.
Hanlon's razor to the contrary, I think this was deliberately planned to fail, to be used as ammunition for swaying the lawmakers.
The RIAA will submit their own interpretation of why it failed. That it was designed to be cumbersome to make it fail won't be grokked by politicians.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[CRCulver]

Many of the films out there that are actually worth watching were realized through the support of state arts subsidies or private patronage. That they would turn a profit was not a necessary requirement for their creation. Why not download them?

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

And Apple's DRM is one of the least onerous options out there, for "legit" viewing.

Huh? Which universe are you in? In my universe, Apple requires specific software to be installed on my machine -- software that takes over system functions, and even downloads other software that I don't want, which in turn takes over more of the system. It's the most intrusive DRM system I've ever seen.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anarke_Incarnate]

Well.... Lets see. If he has 0 incentive to pay, and would not have paid for it, then the studio cannot consider it a loss. The loss only stems from the fact that money they would have otherwise gotten is somehow taken from them.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Moryath]

Fandango + Movietickets = MOVIE TICKET sales. I sometimes use them when I'm... oh... going to the theater (something I've done a lot this summer).

Amazon, Netflix - are you referring to renting/buying the DVD/Blu-ray? Or are you referring to their crappy-as-hell never-works-properly "online rental" setups?

iTunes - Great. Don't own an iPod. Not planning to. Decent video quality only if you plan to watch on tinyscreen.

Xbox Live Video - I've gotten precisely ONE video on it, before I realized there was no way to preserve what I bought (supposedly a "purchase" but going to die with the console).

Hulu - lower quality than broadcast TV. No way to download/preserve it or dump it to any portable option. Yeah, awesome. Not.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I actually think this is a good move on the MPAA's part.

You're missing a lot of things.

I do want to know where I can get movies legally, and this could help increase competition - better for my bottom line.

If I thought for a minute it would help increase competition, maybe that would be a point. I don't.

As for knowing where I can get movies legally? I already know. I also know that the supposedly "legal" methods today deliberately and ILLEGALLY infringe on my first-sale rights, and you won't catch me supporting that.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Least onerous? Like thats an acceptable option?

When the choices are between Bad or Worse both options are still shit.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[exley]

How do you know if you have zero incentive to pay until you've seen it? "Oh, this movie might be shitty, so I sure as hell am not gonna pay for it."

If you have that little faith in movie quality then just don't bother in the first place. Or do some research and read some reviews before making your decision.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Moryath]

Huh? Which universe are you in?

I believe they call his universe "plantville."

Or "Shillverse."

Re:Where do I sign up?

[spiffyman]

The complaint that FairPlay requires specific software is a) hardly unique, since just about every DRM system does, and b) effectively false.

I don't claim that iTunes is perfect - the downloading of extra software is particularly troublesome - but it's a pretty decent piece of jukebox software.

Besides, Apple at least has shown a history of at least appearing to listen to customers' requests. Witness, for example, the advent of "iTunes Plus" songs on the iTMS.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anarke_Incarnate]

It is way more simple than you are making it out. Either you are/were willing to pony up the $10 for the "Last Action Hero2" and go watch it, or you were never going to in the first place.

Therefor, they lost $0 from you not buying a ticket.

However, if you say "Man, that movie was funny as shit" to some friends maybe THEY will go see it. Otherwise, you download it, watch 3 minutes of it, vomit all over yourself and delete the file and go "Glad I was too smart to buy that shit as an experience."

Re:Where do I sign up?

[PlatyPaul]

If they're linking you to Fandango, a site designed specifically for finding movies showing in your area (and buying tickets online to said movies), why not just use Fandango?

They're creating a single site from scratch that they think will do better at being visible for each area than these established sites have done for their own niche.

Good luck with that?

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Dolohov]

I was thinking this myself. When I want to watch a movie online, I check NetFlix, then Hulu, then sometimes iTunes -- having one-stop shopping, so to speak, will actually be quite useful for me.

Judging from the other comments, I would be very curious to see the results of a poll with two questions:
"1. Do you think this is a good idea?"
"2. How old are you?" (Alternately: "Are you a college student?)

I suspect there will be some correlation there.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

The complaint that FairPlay requires specific software is a) hardly unique, since just about every DRM system does, and b) effectively false.

That's a strange way to spell Effectively true. See, the link you gave for "effectively false" points to an additional piece of software -- not a replacement. You need to both iTunes and QuickTime in order to be able to use it.

What makes Fairplay worse than most is that it's not just "specific software", but several pieces of software that take over system tasks that are NOT related to just playing that specific type of media. In addition, it defaults to installing software behind your back, which is worse than even what Sony managed.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[spiffyman]

I sometimes use them when I'm... oh... going to the theater

Well, I didn't say anything about getting movies online legally. The fact is that this website should provide the sort of one-stop shop a lot of consumers look for. A similar response can be given to your "critiques" of each of these services.

None of them are perfect, and I never claimed they were. But I think it's silly that those of us who have spent so much time lambasting the MPAA for its heavy-handed methods are now assailing them for providing a non-profit index of legal services. "Ooooooh! How eeeeeevil of the MPAA! Please don't inform me of where you'd like me to shop!"

The iPod isn't the only device iTMS movies play on. Get your facts straight.

If I thought for a minute it would help increase competition, maybe that would be a point. I don't.

Ok. Here's some substantive disagreement. I think the fact that these sites are all linked on the same site will put them in direct competition with each other. If I want tickets, then I'll pick the site that charges less for reserving tickets. If I want a rental, I'll consider the price/benefit ratio of getting a movie tonight at X price vs. Wednesday at Y price, etc. I think that's pretty straightforward.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple requires specific software to be installed on my machine

As opposed to other DRM schemes, which will happily play under any player you want?

software that takes over system functions, and even downloads other software that I don't want, which in turn takes over more of the system.

Again, as opposed to other DRM-heavy schemes, which don't download anything at all? No extensions, no additional software, no attempts to hijack the system to prevent screenshots or audio recordings, no nothing?

So what you're saying is that a DRM scheme that doesn't phone home (the only remaining difference between Apple's and most other DRM schemes) is more intrusive than one that does?

Just because you're heavily invested in one DRM scheme doesn't mean other people don't have the "specific software" installed on their machines. Your using it does not make it better than other schemes.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Devout_IPUite]

I take it that you never heard about sony hacking your machine when you bought their CDs then, did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

Re:Where do I sign up?

[spiffyman]

which is worse than even what Sony managed

Yeah? On my box, I chose to install iTunes. I don't recall getting to do that with Sony's rootkits.

You're absolutely right that opt-out is a bad way for Apple to push software. But, again, that's a non-unique complaint. And when we're already selecting the lesser of two evils, I have to say I prefer the software that provides a decent service and at least lets you break its defaults.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[bravecanadian]

No, they'll use the lack of interest for this site as "evidence" that people are only interested in ripping them off and getting things for free.

And for many of the people in this crowd.. they will be correct.

First the studios have content that is not available online. People download it for free like crazy because it is "convenient".

Then the studios offer online in various forms. People download it for free like crazy because "it costs too much" or "it has DRM".

Then the studios reduce the costs on the online offerings, perhaps subsidized with advertising, and loosen the DRM. People download content for free because.. they can.. and claim it isn't stealing because of xyz b.s. argument.

Morale of the story: people will justify stealing stuff as long as they can find some argument, however pathetic, to support them. Just another case of Internet anonymity gone wrong.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

Yeah? On my box, I chose to install iTunes. I don't recall getting to do that with Sony's rootkits.

Apples and oranges. We're talking about DRM here, not rootkits. Compare iTunes to Sony Connect, not to their CD rootkits. Else you might as well drag in the copy protection on Apple II 5.25" floppies too.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[AvitarX]

I will say this much.

When I discovered hulu.com my common interests with other boneless fans (shared at alt.binaries.boneless) went way done.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

And for many of the people in this crowd.. they will be correct.

Yes, but that doesn't speak for all of us. When something has a substantial benign use, it should not be classified as criminal.
Otherwise, you might as well ban ski masks because so many robbers and terrorists use them.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Joe Tie.]

Well, I didn't say anything about getting movies online legally.

It seems like the whole point of this though. People don't know that you can go to a movie theater to watch currently playing mainstream movies? The only reason I'd download a movie illegally from the internet is because it's an indi which can't be seen in my area, or a mainstream one when I don't want to go to the horrible theaters around here. Doing a search for them will basically just amount to them saying "You don't want to watch it via option A? Well, we'll sell it to you via option A instead of option A! You're welcome!"

Re:Where do I sign up?

[_Sprocket_]

Just another case of Internet anonymity gone wrong.

...Says the "bravecanadian." Ohh look! I've got a strawman too!

Re:Where do I sign up?

[veganboyjosh]

I think you're close, but off the mark.

I'd say most people download (illegally) because it's just easier. It's easier to find content via TPB than it is going to retail store xyz and finding a movie that's 2 years old. It's easier to get it in a format that works (Windows, Mac, Linux, etc). It's easier to deal with the files once you have them. (DRM, etc)

It's easier to get for free from torrenttracker123 than it is to pay for it from netflix, amazon, or wherever. It's too bad for the **AA, too. If they had been even a little forward thinking to realize that people would use this big new technology to get content. If the **AA had thrown half as much energy and money at the problem of coming up with a decent distribution network/model that works via the internet, they could have beaten the pirates in a big way early on. As it is, they've allowed the pirates to come up with an easier way for people to get their content. I think they kind of missed the bus. They're struggling, but if they want to put an end to piracy in a big way, then they're going to need to come up with a distribution method that makes it easier for joe content user to get to and use. I truly believe that if it's easier, then enough people will pay for it to make it worth the content creator's investment.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[spiffyman]

The distinction's not as clear as you seem to think. With the iTunes/FP setup, I install media, know my options with regard to said media, and I choose to continue using the software regulating those rights.

Sony's solution", however, meant I didn't get to know my options, didn't get to make any decisions regarding what went on my box, etc.

There's a clear contrast, and an important one, as far as I'm concerned. With one, I'm fully aware of what's happening - even if I disagree with it - while with the other I'm duped for just attempting to play a CD.

Now, I don't know if you really wanted to compare FairPlay to this defunct service, but it's a no-brainer to me. As long as I keep a local copy of my AAC files & iTunes (or de-FairPlayed AAC files and any of a number of options) I get to keep listening to my music. Connect managed to come through with instructions on how to avoid the fate that customers of other fee-based services have endured, but why go with such a service in the first place? Gimme a local copy any time.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[pickyouupatnine]

Man there are far too many dumb old people in office to be swayed by this :(

Re:Where do I sign up?

[_Sprocket_]

What part of that sounds like a "piss-poor selection" of "crippled" flicks? Fandango and Movietickets, at least, aren't exactly DRM purveyors. And Apple's DRM is one of the least onerous options out there, for "legit" viewing.

Doesn't Fandango and Movietickets sell... tickets? Do they also sell video?

As for Apple's iTunes, I agree; least onerous. But still onerous. I pass.

Here's an example. I got a kick out of Dr. Horrible. Partly because I thought it was kinda neat. Partly because it might part of an Internet dream many have talked about for years. I plan to throw some dollars at the project but I'm not purchasing from iTunes. I'm waiting for the DVD. When I get said DVD, I'm ripping it and putting the media on my shelf. The DVD provides me with much superior options for use of media I've purchased (not by intent of course - I'm sure the DVD Consortium rues the day CSS was cracked).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[An. (Coward)]

Maybe you and all your friends should march into the nearest Apple store and take turns spending hours harassing the Geniuses there about Apple's DRM policies so that all the regular customers get so sick of waiting for assistance that they go home and build Linux boxes.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[piggerot]

If the DRM were standardized, I might have less difficulty with downloading some kind of viewer / player. However, I run FreeBSD boxes and iTunes doesn't exactly work. Likewise, there aren't really many players that work with many DRM systems. I'm not about to install windblows (I don't play games after all), and I'm not likely to spend a small fortune on a Mac (I don't do a lot of graphics work). I have software that plays videos and MP3's fine. The selection of content I have in digital format has primarly been ripped from my own collection of discs. However, I have a couple that have been downloaded and I rather like the portability of all the files I have. Also, what doesn't seem to be clearly addressed, when is the last time you were getting something for free and then agreed to start paying for it? I think the last time I put up with that was when I turned 17, graduated from high school, and my mom charged me 2 months rent before I was off to college!

Re:Where do I sign up?

[moosesocks]

Ok. Name a *less* intrusive DRM system.

Honestly, it sounds like it's the only DRM system you've used.

Apple didn't want to buy into Microsoft's DRM standard. What would you have proposed that they did instead?

Also, what "software that you didn't want" does it install? Complaining about iTunes installing Quicktime is like complaining about the VLC Player installing the VLC Libraries. (No, iTunes and Quicktime for Windows aren't as good as they could be. Still, things could be a lot worse)

We need some sort of standardized, cross-platform system for DRM. Sadly, it's going to be a reality that we have to deal with. We might as well make the best of it. For now, Apple's system isn't terribly bad.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[moosesocks]

iTunes uses QuickTime as a backend to read media files.

VLC uses the VLC Libraries to process its files.

What exactly is the big deal here? They're complementary products. Deal with it. It's not like Quicktime is actively causing you any harm.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[aztracker1]

Yeah, that's why since iTMS has been up, more people are buying their music opposed to using p2p networks to grab it.

The fact is, most people will buy something if it works, is cheap and convenient enough. The fact is, charging as much for a DVD copy for a sub-dvd quality, and none of the extras is BS... If you got at least DVD quality, and had the program ability to burn the movie to a DVD, then that would probably sway a few.. charge 25% less than the hardcopy DVD with those features, and sales would probably go very well...

Me, I go to the movies about 2-3x a month. I don't watch too many shows, and usually DVR those I do watch. The series I like, I buy on DVD... I spend maybe $500-1000 USD a year on DVDs... This has been a bit less this past year since DVD series have been going down in price. Do I do torrents of these same series? yes.. why, because ripping/re-encoding takes time, and it's sometimes just easier to download it already done. Why? because I have an MCE computer in my living room, and like to just choose a movie without fussing with disks.

Once people can get a hardware player that hooks to their TV with 1TB+ of drive space, for
The trouble with DRM is you are stuck with whatever scheme is in place for checking the DRM... if it relies on a 3rd party service to validate, what happens in 5-10 years, or if the service goes out of business. DRM'd media won't work in the long run. It pisses customers off, and pissed off customers == lost future sales.

I still have yet to buy anything from Sony in several years now after the CD DRM crap they pulled... I don't buy/play games with DRM after the BS of trying to get some of them to even install. I put my money where my mouth is, and don't buy the crap. I was about ready to buy an HD-DVD player when the pricing approaced $200, but then Sony got some MPAA and other movie execs laid or something and the bottom fell out...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

when it came out on DVD or Blu-ray later, I would buy it

Both DVD and Blu-ray are DRM crippled media. "Illegal" downloads are the only way to get the content DRM free. Also in most countrys piracy is not illegal, thats why these comapnies do deals with your goverments to make it so.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

Sony Connect also managed to provide a service that did not take over as the DVD player, MP3 player, AVI player or web browser for the entire system. It was a bad system, but for other reasons. Apple's system is bad not because of the DRM part, but because the DRM part links in to so many other components that you need. You tie yourself down to an Apple-owned system.
If Sony's connect had clandestinely installed Sony Media Manager, Sony Disc2phone, Vegas Video trial and Sound Forge Audio trial, people would have flamed it to hell and back for that. Righteously so. But when it's Apple doing it, it's suddenly OK?

But again, defending Apple's DRM by comparing it to Sony's *rootkits*, instead of Fairplay vs. MagicGate or iTunes vs Connect is disingenuous. Sony's CD rootkits had as little to do with their music downloading DRM as iTunes has to do with Apple ][ floppy disk copy protection gone wrong (which most of you here are probably too young to remember, but let's say that it had about the same negative impact as Sony's rootkits, with the difference that it could ruin hardware, not just software).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[znerk]

Otherwise, you might as well ban ski masks because so many robbers and terrorists use them.

Actually, it's my understanding that you are not allowed to wear ski masks inside public places, nor at public demonstrations... for precisely these reasons. About 10 years ago, I was accosted by a convenience store clerk as I entered the store, and told that I had to remove my ski mask or they would call the police. It was approximately 20 degrees Farenheit outside, and this was before the 9/11 fiasco.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[felix85]

What would you have proposed that they did instead?

Provide 100% DRM-FREE MP3s which would allow you to use any MP3 player. They would make alot more money that way . Even if they charged 10 cents more there would be people buying them just for the ability to use them on any device without having to circumvent the DRM.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Ihmhi]

Xbox Live Video

You can't, you know, own Xbox Live Video movies. TV shows, yes. Movies, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live_Marketplace#Video_Store

TV shows will be saved permanently while movies are only "rentals"; they will become unwatchable 24 hours after initial viewing or 14 days after purchase.

Yeah, pay X amount of money to rent a movie that's only good on my 360? No thanks.

I do think Hulu is a step in the right direction, though. I just wish they had a bigger selection.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[moosesocks]

That's a very simplistic way of looking at things.

Whether or not to provide DRM was not Apple's call to make. It was demanded by the record companies.

A growing percentage of iTunes tracks are now sold without DRM, and are labeled as such. If you'd prefer MP3 to unprotected AAC (which most players are fine with these days), Amazon also now has a music store.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Dan541]

Normally, I would pirate a movie because it's free, has no DRM, and is available at any time (even while the movie is still playing in theaters).

And you think this is OK because...

Then when it came out on DVD or Blu-ray later, I would buy it and give the filmmaker their fair cut (I'm not not looking to rip them off, I just want a copy of the movie to play at home).

Ah, ok, well gee, that makes it all better. I suppose in the end, no harm, no foul, right? But how about all those people who just do step 1 of your process, but not step 2? Or how about the movies you pirate but decide, nahhhh, this one I'm not gonna buy...

I only do step one most of the time, you act as if we are doing something wrong.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Adriax]

What kind of correlation, exactly?

See, question 1 I'll have to answer No. This is the MPAA's half-assed effort towards staving off piracy so they can later trumpet around it's failure as more proof internet users are all criminals and they need more laws to protect their revenue stream.
I mean seriously, a fucking index page?

As to question 2, 28. Well out of college, working in K-12 education and workforce training.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Dolohov]

I was thinking, actually, a correlation between "yes" and "college-age". (Obviously not 100%) I don't usually give the MPAA the benefit of the doubt, but this strikes me as them actually trying -- it seems to me that they noticed that the most popular sites were not the individual "pirates" but the indexing sites like PirateBay or that TV site out of the UK (the name escapes me). It seems more likely that they'll be looking for kickbacks from the sites they send people to, than looking for "proof internet users are all criminals."

Re:Where do I sign up?

[UncleTogie]

We need some sort of standardized, cross-platform system for DRM.

No, we don't. Members of the RIAA would like people to think so, but I've still yet to see a compelling argument on why we should be happy with DRM.

Sadly, it's going to be a reality that we have to deal with.

That's another idea that RIAA members like to promote. While they may want us to believe that DRM is "inevitable" and "necessary", it's nothing of the sort....otherwise, iTunes and others wouldn't be experimenting with DRM-free music.

We might as well make the best of it.

Feel free to "make the best of it." Myself, I've kept a dialogue with my CongressCritters since they made it illegal for the deaf guy to watch movies on his PC. My favorite artist said it best:

"You can't make me settle down / I'd rather kick and jump and bite and scratch / And scream until I'm blue"

They have no reason to change their tune if they don't hear from you... ;)

For now, Apple's system isn't terribly bad.

This is like being forced into a testicle-kicking contest. While you're free to debate which method is the least painful, I resent that they're trying to kick us in the collective nuts to begin with...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

iTunes Plus is hardly an example. It is merely a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that Amazon.com launched their DRM-free music store.

They had to evolve with the market or get passed up and die.

Oh wait, right, if I don't say Apple is great and makes your bowel movements smell like cinnamon rolls, I get modded down -15 Troll. All hail Apple, the great God who can do no wrong.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[smoker2]

I have a plan - you may not like it, but hear me out.

First, we decide on a figure that each internet user can reasonably afford to pay once.
Then using the ISPs, all that cash gets collected and held in escrow.
Our representative meets with the *IAA and offers them the deal:

1. They agree to drop all cases pending and in progress.
2. They must agree to a change in the law that prevents the future copyright liability of private individuals.
3. When and only when the modified law is in effect, they get the money.

I don't know how many individual ISP accounts there are in either the US or EU, but suffice to say, it would be a fairly large amount. And if they turn the deal down, we get our money back (with accrued interest).
I can't see them being able to resist that big fat pile of cash for too long, can you ?
We could be even more generous and give them a month to think about it (providing they drop all current cases) which gives them time to come up with a new business model. And if you think 1 month is too short, tough. You've had plenty of time already.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[cheater512]

And what about it being crippled in other countries?
Not everyone is in the US you know.

In Australia piracy increased by 30% over Christmas due to shit being on TV and the writers strike.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[morcego]

The day they stop calling it Digital Rights Management is the day I will might start considering it a valid option.

I'm just so tired of all this marketing bullshit that tries to make people believe things are the opposite of what they really are. DRM, Genuine Advantage, OPEN licensing (by Microsoft). I have to wonder if that is not because they know they are doing something that will piss off their customers. And that is another thing I don't by. These companies are not ignorant savages. They know what they are doing, and they know they are going to piss people off. That is why they try to con people using all these names.

Want me as a client ? Good. First, please stop calling me stupid. Then we can talk.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[zmollusc]

Neat, right up to the point when they use the huge pile of cash to pay for the law to be changed back again and to re-open the old cases.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[rastoboy29]

lolz.  I assure you they will find a way to f*ck it up.  It's inevitable, and I'm not just being an anti-fanboi.

Their actions show that they simply do not understand the technology.  There is no way they could set up a worthwhile site that people actually want to use--because you have to understand People and Things and stuff for that to happen.  Which they manifestly do not.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[ColaMan]

I was accosted by a convenience store clerk as I entered the store, and told that I had to remove my ski mask or they would call the police.

Having no idea on the current 1984-esque laws in the US at the moment, from an Australian point of view I can only point out that that is a "store policy" only. It's a far cry from "public places".

To use a bit of Political Correctness (spit) against The Man, one can simply say,"but what about Muslim women and their full-body, face-covering burkhas and veils? Surely you're not discriminating against them, are you? Tsk-Tsk. Maybe I should call a few people in the press."

They'll be backpedalling before you can say "Anti-discrimination Comission"

Re:Where do I sign up?

[blueg3]

I'm fairly certain that any DRM requires you to have either specific software or specific hardware on your machine. Of the two, software is less intrusive.

I'm not sure what you mean by "takes over system functions".

Certainly I'm not sure what software iTunes forces you to download, unless you're referring to QuickTime (a dependency) or Safari (which it doesn't force you to download).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[blueg3]

I agree. If everyone were to switch to a single standardized, cross-platform DRM system, then a lot less reverse engineering would need to be done.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Reziac]

Normally I *BUY* my movies on DVD, and here is why I don't want DRM on them (we'll pretend CSS isn't DRM for this discussion, since it's been pretty much negated by modern rippers):

Not infrequently, the DVD is bad right out of the box, and will not play correctly. However, for the typical $12 movie, it's not really worth the bother to locate the receipt, call the vendor, argue about whether it's really the DVD or my player, package it up, send it back at my own expense, wait for a replacement to come that may well be in worse condition (DVDs being the fragile creatures they are), rinse and repeat.

Rather than inconvenience myself (and cost the vendor money too -- why needlessly drive up costs and therefore prices??), I just sic a ripper on the defective disk, and eventually it extracts a watchable file. (Worst one took 14 hours to get past whatever was wrong with the disk, but it DID extract.)

If I can't do this, it reduces the value of purchased DVDs to exactly the value of a free download, since as noted, the RMA process really isn't worth my cost and bother for a $12 disk.

So, listen up, Hollywood -- make your disks rip-proof, and I'll stop buying them.

Same for purchased downloads: Let me do whatever I damn please with 'em. Watermark the file, I don't care about that -- I'm not interested in uploading 'em to the wide world anyway. But don't stop me from storing it however I like, or accessing it whenever I wish without needing a special key or internet connection, or fixing the file if something ails it -- same as I can with the DVDs I currently buy.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Reziac]

Well, preventing that in perpetuity would have to be part of the deal then, eh?

But you're right -- enforcing that, with all the myriad ways to sneak new laws in under everyone's radar, would be difficult at best.

Better to change copyright law without special interests skewing the process.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Darundal]

Well, with the DRM, there is the issue of support. Mainly, can the DRM'd file play on my computer. Not everyone is running the latest and "greatest" insofar as Windows is concerned, or even what is a generation behind that. Heck, a lot of people don't even use Windows.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

wait... you figured out the '???'. Looks like the /. equivalent of vogons are a little late in annihilating the place - they're supposed to do that before the answer is found.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Darundal]

They are selling DRM-free MP3 files. I don't know if it is the entire catalogue or not, but they are selling them. Of course, last I knew, they were selling them for a higher price than the (mostly) OS agnostic Amazon MP3 store, which only sells DRM-free MP3s, at the same bitrate as iTunes is using for their DRM-free stuff.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Nazlfrag]

There is no iModel for that iBusiness that iCan think of...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Technician]

Yep, the MPAA finally gets it!

Only if their site doesn't exclude other sources of legal content, such as craigslist or ebay where the right of first sale may be used to sell a pre-owned DVD.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Nazlfrag]

Its a piece of shit player, I hate it, I don't want it, ergo I don't want iTunes. It's actively causing Apple harm, not me. I frankly don't give two shits.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

... like I don't know where to buy movie tickets (the theater, duh) or rent a DVD (the local video rental shop, duh).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[antek9]

Morale of the story: people will justify stealing stuff as long as they can find some argument, however pathetic, to support them. Just another case of Internet anonymity gone wrong.

Stealing. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[rtb61]

An interesting point. Now would you consider stealing if people regularly lie about the quality of the goods they are selling which you can't return in order to maximise their profits. So is downloading low quality versions of content as a means by which to decide whether it is worth buying, in the face of the hundreds of millions of dollars the publishers are willing to spend in order to lie about a product and suck you into buying it, fair or unfair.

You know what is even more mind boggling about the whole farce, publishers believe they are entitled to a return on that bull shit advertising, that somehow that it is an added value product to the customers, lying to them so that they will buy crap content that they will end up disliking. Now that is what really pisses off the publishers the most, people knowing exactly how bad the content is and refusing to buy it, millions wasted on B$ advertising that everyone ignores because they have already previewed the content.

Now I can honestly say that after having watching content via a source, I have gone to the cinema to watch a higher quality version of the same content and on the flip side I have seen content so bad that whether it was free was insufficient to get to put up with. Damn, there is just so much content out there that is not even worth pirating and those free full previews (not edited excerpts of the best bits) make it impossible to sell no matter how much B$ advertising you dump on everyone.

So morale of the story, well, you make a habit about continually defrauding people with regard to the quality of the products you are selling and expect no respect for you or your product. Hell, add to that corrupting governments for your own short term greed regardless of the long term harm to society and expect people to go out of their way to disrupt your criminal activities ;P.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[oracle128]

That sounds exactly like the Street Performer Protocol, except implemented in such a way that the RIAA gets a bunch of money now, for the trade off that the original copyright holders (ie the artists and record companies) get neither financial renumeration for their work, nor copyright or other legal protection - whether they are affiliated with the RIAA or not - until the end of time. And it relies on these "internet users" either voluntarily donating money to this fund (because if there's one thing pirates enjoy more than getting content for free, it's paying for content they may not receive), or everyone's forced to contribute equal an equal amount, whether they download movies/music/etc or not.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[bravecanadian]

I know exactly what stealing means.. I just don't try to weasel my way out of it with some technicality.

Please don't start another "it isn't stealing it is copyright violation" OR "it isn't stealing because they haven't been deprived of their original copy argument".

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Macrat]

iTunes - Great. Don't own an iPod. Not planning to. Decent video quality only if you plan to watch on tinyscreen.

Do you live under a rock? You don't need an iPod to watch videos. You watch them in iTunes... And if you don't like watching on your computer, you buy the AppleTV box to stream to your TV.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Ironlenny]

I think they kind of missed the bus.

Only did they miss the bus, they're at the wrong stop.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mgblst]

Great comment. The MPAA is trying to do something positive, make it easier to find legitimate movies for download. Oh shock, they don't have an amazing selection on their first day... who cares. It will get better, and it makes it easier for people who do want to buy movies.

Wow, so it doesn't work for you, congratulations on being a wanker.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[cliffski]

1) the MPAA and RIAA do no represent software or games developers, so the ideas useless

2) Amazingly not all internet users pirate stuff and will not want to pay to subsidise people who do.

Why don't you just take the money you would have spent on this and *gasp* buy the music legitimately?

Re:Where do I sign up?

[cliffski]

it means taking someone else's work for free, against the desires and will of that person.

At least it does to anyone who doesn't want to wiggle out of admitting what he is doing is leeching, freeloading or just plain wrong.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[cliffski]

Agreed. And the way the pro-piracy camps keep calling it 'file-sharing' rather than piracy or copyright infringement is completely reasonable.
And humorous attempts to re-spell MPAA are entirely reasonable and an intelligent contribution to the debate.

maybe they will stop saying DRM when 6 year olds on digg stop posting "Fuck the RIAA!!!!!" in every single story.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mgblst]

Name a *less* intrusive DRM system.

Sort of like saying it is the nicest prison around, or he was the gentlest rapist ever.

We don't want any DRM. If nobody bought Apple DRM music and movies, then we probably would have non-DRM encoded stuff by now.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[SeaFox]

Wonder what they'd do if someone came in with their head wrapped in bandages.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Tim C]

With the iTunes/FP setup, I install media, know my options with regard to said media, and I choose to continue using the software regulating those rights.

True, but I didn't choose to install Bonjour, or Mobile Me, or to have a service and a background helper app running the entire time on the off chance that I might want iTunes to start when I plug my iPod in (I don't!). Installing additional software without even so much as telling me is wrong, especially when I have no use for the software.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Lachlan Hunt]

For me, there are several more reasons I download TV series and movies illegally:

1. Cost: iTunes Australia has recently added TV shows, but they charge $3 AUD per episode, or up to $70 or more per season. In some cases, that's twice the price of the DVD box set and doesn't come with all the extra content.

2. DRM: Although Requiem will successfully strip the FairPlay DRM quite easily, I object to paying while I know the studios are wasting some of that money developing flawed DRM schemes designed to cripple my ability to view what I legally bought.

3. Availability: None of the TV shows I want to see are legally available in my regions (either in Australia, where I'm from, or Norway, where I'm currently living). Shows can take up to a year or more to be aired on TV outside the US, and I just don't want to wait.

4. Scheduling: Sticking to the TV schedule for watching the shows I like is inconvenient and frequently causes me to miss episodes.

5. Quality: TV shows available through iTunes are lower quality than some of the HDTV or Bluray rips I can get from torrents. I would gladly pay to download videos in 720p or 1080p. In fact, I did that when Sanctuary came out last year and were sold DRM free and worldwide, and will do it again if and the next season begins and is available in the same way.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[arth1]

What exactly is the big deal here? They're complementary products. Deal with it. It's not like Quicktime is actively causing you any harm.

Actually, it is. On a system with Quicktime 7 installed, I no longer can convert or create movies for my PDA, cause the DRM of QT7 kicks in, and prevents playback on 6.x compatible devices. That, I call harm.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[BryanL]

"iTunes - Great. Don't own an iPod. Not planning to. Decent video quality only if you plan to watch on tinyscreen."

Movies on iTunes are not sized for your iPod. Most are 640x480 (or thereabouts.) iTunes videos look good on your computer screen, and I think that is pretty much what they are sized for.

The downsides of iTunes video: Apple's DRM for their videos suck. Also you have to download iTunes software, which some people hate (I personally like it, but it does have a large memory footprint.)

Re:Where do I sign up?

[BryanL]

Of course it is going to fail. If the public can't find other legitimate sites, how are they going to find this new one. This is like helping the blind find a phone by hanging a sign above it. If they can't see the phone, they won't see the sign.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mpe]

Huh? Which universe are you in? In my universe, Apple requires specific software to be installed on my machine -- software that takes over system functions, and even downloads other software that I don't want, which in turn takes over more of the system. It's the most intrusive DRM system I've ever seen.

It also is quite picky about what OS it will run on. Part of this is likely to be a side effect of the software wanting to subvert parts of the OS...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

However most public demonstrations (and places) doesn't really fall into the category of benign use of a skimask unless it's really cold.

For give me if I'm wrong, but I'm venturing a guess that the majority of demonstrations are held in temperate climates (or warmer).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mlebrun42]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. -Gin Rummy, Boondocks

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mdwh2]

Taking someone's work? You mean that all these downloaders are forcing their way into movie studios, and acting in the actors' places, to take their jobs away from them?

Try again. Preferably with a citation from a dictionary this time.

At least it does to anyone who doesn't want to wiggle out of admitting what he is doing is leeching, freeloading or just plain wrong.

This is a non-sequitor. Whether or not copying is "stealing" has nothing to do with whether it is right or wrong. Copyright infringement can still be wrong, without being "stealing".

In fact, I'm very suspicious why people are so keen to mislabel copyright infringement as "stealing" - it's almost as if they believe that copyright infringement isn't in itself wrong, so they have to pretend it's something else instead.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[cliffski]

lol what drivel.

you are from the group who tries to rename it 'file sharing' to make it sound like you are sharing your lunch, and keep saying 'sharing is caring'.

yeah, its caring when you share someone else's work, but not your own.

try again, preferably with some brain cells.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[elrous0]

I've never downloaded a bootleg movie that I didn't buy on DVD when it came out (except for a few movies and TV shows that never were released on DVD in region 1). Many of them I also saw in the theater as well. So the idea that I'm ripping off studios just because they're too stupid to offer downloadable content themselves without gobs of DRM and other annoyances is laughable. It's not our fault that the studios can't let go of their outmoded distribution system (otherwise we would be able to buy the DVD the same day it was released in theaters and this would never even be an issue).

Re:Where do I sign up?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

you are from the group who tries to rename it 'file sharing' to make it sound like you are sharing your lunch, and keep saying 'sharing is caring'.

It sounds to me like he's from a group that prefers the philosophy of 'innocent until provent guilty'.

One of the reasons you two are never going to agree on what you're debating is that the RIAA, for example, thinks it's 'stealing' if you're riding in a cab and the driver has the radio on.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[GodWasAnAlien]

straw man wrote: "Morale of the story: people will justify stealing stuff as long as they can find some argument, however pathetic, to support them. Just another case of Internet anonymity gone wrong."

Do you steal the song happy birthday whenever you sing it?
Are you stealing from Bach's relatives every time you listen to a Bach piece without paying?
Are you stealing from the inventor of the cheesecake if you make one?
Are you stealing when you download Metropolis (which was in the public domain for 30 years).

Publishing monopolies would like you to answer yes to two of the above.

The line of copyright monopoly duration is an arbitrary one, that was intended to be a "limited time" (14-28 years) not 95 years, or life + 70.
The line has been moved, not for the public good, or for the sake of art or science. Rather it was moved for corporate profit.
If you have bought into the "sharing is stealing" marketing, I would recommend that you compare and contrast the modern media publishers with the medieval Stationers company.

Morale of the story: people will justify suppressing public information for as long as it is profitable to do so. Just another case of government granted monopoly power gone wrong.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Theoboley]

if they're blind.. they won't see anything let alone a sign or a phone.. Excellent analogy FTL.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mdwh2]

Did you mean to reply to my post? I clearly referred to copyright infringement as copyright infringement, not "file sharing" or anything else.

Try again, replying to what I said, rather than your straw man.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[bravecanadian]

Taking someone's work? You mean that all these downloaders are forcing their way into movie studios, and acting in the actors' places, to take their jobs away from them?

In a word. Yes.

I know the popular slashdot notion is that the studios are huge faceless corporations bent on world domination.. but the reality is this stuff costs money and time to make. ie. work.

Also, there are a lot more every day working stiffs on a movie set than there are movie stars/producers making millions.

The more you decide that you are, for some unfathomable reason, entitled to these peoples work.. the less these companies have to reinvest in new projects and the less work their workers will have in the future.

Just because the product of their labour is easily copied does not make the value of their work or their rights over it any less.. we need something to protect the investment these people make... oh I know. COPYRIGHT!

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Fandango adds $1 to the ticket price. Considering that ticket prices are about $10 (here at least) for a ticket..that's just more cost that's insane to pay..add a bag popcorn and a drink and you have the price of the DVD at Wal-mart...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[mdwh2]

Wow, you'll have to give me a reference to where so-called "downloaders" are breaking into studios to steal their jobs.

PS - I'm a software developer, so I earn money by producing content too. Which is why I am aware of what copyright infringement is, and what stealing is, and I see no reason to conflate two entirely separate issues. I'm not sure why you can't grasp the difference. No one's stolen my job yet.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[bravecanadian]

Obviously they aren't literally breaking into their houses.. please..

I seriously hope that someone starts taking all your code against your wishes and gives you nothing in return.

I wonder how long you would have a job if you didn't get paid for what your work produced or helped to produce more effectively? I'm willing to bet either you or your company would decide that it wasn't working out in pretty damn short order.

Then *you* might grasp that there really isn't that big a difference.. copyright is a construct society has agreed upon to protect the value of your work.

Copyright is what gives the holder the power in our society to decide if you'd like to give that work away for free or under some other set of terms.

This control is how music/movie and other studios get their large up front investments back and hopefully profit.. it is also how the GPL enforces its rule of returning modifications and on and on.

If you don't like the terms, nothing is forcing you from using the work. However, just because you don't agree to the terms doesn't mean that you are entitled to take it anyways! (stealing!)

Cheers

Re:Where do I sign up?

[morcego]

You sarcasm got me a bit confused. I'm not sure if you are agreeing or not with me, if you are just expanding the criticism, or if you are agreeing with RIAA (and others) on the 'just fair' basis.

I don't think the stupidity of one part justify that of the other. We have "file-sharing" and we have "piracy". Saying one is the other is just as ridiculous as saying DRM. Or breaking the red book(?) standard for CDs. Or saying "Fuck RIAA" (oh, that so help ... a lot ...).

Humm, we are doomed, aren't we ? Idiocracy at its worst.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[Anonymous Coward]

the RIAA, for example, thinks it's 'stealing' if you're riding in a cab and the driver has the radio on.

No, the radio stations who play the music have already paid their royalties to the record companies for the right to play music on the airwaves.

Re:Where do I sign up?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

No, the radio stations who play the music have already paid their royalties to the record companies for the right to play music on the airwaves.

Right, they shouldn't be allowed to. But they still want to charge cabs for driving clients with the radio on. I'm not kidding, look it up.

Explain someting to me...

[NuclearError]

Turns out they were just confused.

Wait a minute... legal's the one you get for free, right?

Confused?

[mseidl]

Yes, because whenever I'm downloading movies, I'm always confused where I should insert the quarters...

As it turns out, the floppy drive isn't such a good idea.

Re:Confused?

[bsDaemon]

Only because precious few computers have a floppy drive these days. That makes utilizing them as a coin slot sort of platform-dependent and usually ties you to hardware incapable of viewing the product.

But then again, isn't that what they want anyway?

Re:Confused?

[Spy der Mann]

I'm always confused where I should insert the quarters...

As it turns out, the floppy drive isn't such a good idea.

Lucky you, I had inserted my coins in the CD ROM! The metal grinding noise still haunts me in my dreams... :(

Re:Confused?

[morgan_greywolf]

Well, I stuck mine in the slots on the side of the power supply. To this day, the fire department still won't come to my house anymore.

This makes sense.

[evanbd]

One reason many people commit copyright infringement of movies is because the p2p programs provide a simpler, faster way to find what you're looking for, all from a central location. If this really indexes everything available, and is quick and simple to use, I think it might actually see significant use.

Obviously it won't stop all infringement, but it's a much saner response than suing your customers.

Re:This makes sense.

[garcia]

Obviously it won't stop all infringement, but it's a much saner response than suing your customers.

Woah, wait a minute there tiger! They never said they were going to stop suing their customers, nope. All they said was that they were going to setup a site that will rank poorly on Google and will likely be poorly designed so that they can say that they are providing a service to their customers that those customers say they want.

A sane response would be to provide DRM and commercial free media to your customers that are filled with quality content (holy fucking God Almighty in heaven, I know, crazy right?!) While I haven't seen anything except the leaked first 6 minutes of the Dark Knight, those 6 minutes were decent enough for me to be interested in the film -- the first time I have had any interest in a MPAA released film in quite some time.

Re:This makes sense.

[gEvil (beta)]

Exactly. Look at what happened when iTunes gave people a legitimate service that was easy to use where they could get their music online. Yes, there were a few around before that, but none were as braindead simple to use as the ITMS.

Re:This makes sense.

[Exanon]

It's not going to index everything. It is going to list "Special Deals" and other crap. Thing is, I am not sure the MPAA even WANTS the site to succeed. Why?
Well, because it gives them ample PR-ammunition to then say "Well we tried legal alternatives, they just won't stop!".

The fact that piracy is here to stay doesn't seem to face them and the only thing they are hurting with these piss-poor services is their ever shrinking customer base.

I really wouldn't mind if they crashed and burned right now. And I say that having seen TDK in theaters despite downloading the cam-rip.

Re:This makes sense.

[bravecanadian]

Obviously it won't stop all infringement, but it's a much saner response than suing your customers.

If they aren't paying in some way.. they aren't customers.

Re:This makes sense.

[Shadow Wrought]

Woah, wait a minute there tiger! They never said they were going to stop suing their customers, nope.

Indeed. Now they can sue the customer and point to a "legitimate" site that the customer could have used instead. Within a year they'll be citing this in their briefs since it will, in their eyes, remove any defense based on ignorance.

Re:This makes sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

A sane response would be to provide DRM and commercial free media to your customers that are filled with quality content (holy fucking God Almighty in heaven, I know, crazy right?!)

Actually, this is sort of crazy. I'm not at all saying that the MPAA is on the right track here or that excessive DRM doesn't understandably push people to go for pirated content, but you're suggesting that filmmakers make their content available free and clear? What do you think that's going to do to their revenue stream? The world is full of freeloaders who are unwilling to pay the slightest dime for the movies that are providing them with untold hours of entertainment. What's more, the world is full of people who will put that content out there to be gobbled up by the freeloaders.

Paramount, WB, etc. are not public services. They're in the movie-making business to make money -- and it's not like these films are cheap to produce. Hollywood-- scratch that -- filmmakers whether in Hollywood, Bollywood, or wherever, have a right to protect their investments.

Somewhere along the spectrum of totally free and clear content on the one hand and the sort of crippling "you can only play me on one of your computers" DRM on the other ... somewhere in between there has to be happy medium that allows filmmakers an opportunity to recoup or even (gasp!) profit from their investments without completely shackling the consumer.

Re:This makes sense.

[Cor-cor]

Actually, it seems to me like the MPAA's been taking the saner approach all along.

Every time I hear about the RIAA, they're suing someone new or getting another judgment handed down. Every time I hear about the MPAA, they're trying something new - online services like streaming shows and the whole Netflix thing, "educational" (threatening) letters, or a summer which, in my opinion, has been filled with an unreasonably high number of decent films.

I'm not saying they've gotten things perfect, but it at least looks like they're trying, and it would be nice if people recognize that and throw a noticeable amount of support their way in response. That way, they can see that the evil haX0rs aren't out to get them and the public really is willing to work with them. Because the alternative is that they recognize the RIAA's "bite the hand that feeds you" campaign is turning more of a profit through settlements and go that route. Maybe I've missed news stories where the MPAA does the same thing, but for the sake of not moving to Canada I'd like to think not. It's cold up there. And filled with Canadians.

The flipside of that, of course, is to let the RIAA know how we feel about their strategy. For example, I recently got fed up with them and opened an e-music account. I know there are other sites but I'm a little hooked on this one, you know how it is. It seems to have everything we want straight from a wish list (reasonably priced quality songs without DRM and no RIAA). Like I've seen a lot with similar posts, I missed some of the bigger name bands and it's a little harder to find what I want, but I've also heard that if that sort of thing deters you they take your geek license on the spot.

So yeah, I guess my point here is look around, and use the language they under$tand to tell the *AAs what you like (or don't). That's the only way things will really get better. If you only hide behind "extra features" of illegal services to justify breaking the law, well, sorry to say but they probably are justified in suing that attitude out of you. But if you are willing to support those features, they might actually get implemented. Because, in the immortal words of Peter Griffin, "Black or white, the only color that really matters is green." And I'll continue to watch Family Guy as long as they don't sue me for the $0.02 of whatever I just stole there.

Re:This makes sense.

[digitrev]

You parsed that wrong. He meant "DRM free" and "commercial free" content.

Re:This makes sense.

[Dan541]

I buy one movie every ten years, that makes me a customer.

Re:This makes sense.

[znerk]

Uhm. Reading comprehension ftw? I know the GP isn't the easiest on the grammer-and-punctuation crowd, but where in that did you get that the content was free of charge? Try it again with a couple hyphens, see if it clears up the concept:

A sane response would be to provide DRM- and commercial-free media to your customers that are filled with quality content...

Is that a little clearer?

Don't get me wrong, I disagree too. Hulu seems to be doing quite well with commercials and no DRM.

Re:This makes sense.

[daemonburrito]

What do you think that's going to do to their revenue stream?

Frankly, AC, I don't give a damn.

I don't think that the FBI should give a damn, either. Or Congress, or the courts.

In a world where the cost of distribution is effectively zero, their business model needs to change. Cliche, I know.

The worst case scenario if the industry lost the battle to control distribution: Two years free of craptacular films while the industry reorganizes, trimming executive fat (and as for shareholders... Well, I don't give a damn about them, either). Art houses will do fine, and a smaller mainstream theater industry will remain (where patrons are paying for a ride on a $100 000 system).

In summary, I don't believe the health of any part of the entertainment industry is worth this invasion of people's lives. Basic human rights are more important than Hollywood's survival.

You mentioned Bollywood. I would like to add Hong Kong, Beijing and Tokyo, and show you a counter-example to your "happy medium". The film industry of these cities flourishes, in spite of an almost complete disregard for our style of intellectual property law in Asia.

It is my personal opinion that freeing information will do more for a nation's economy than protecting the distribution rights of a particular industry.

Re:This makes sense.

[Macrat]

Exactly. Look at what happened when iTunes gave people a legitimate service

The FSF monkeys came by and try to shut it down?

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

Fine print

[poetmatt]

Watch out for the fine print for one, and two this is a press release equivalent.

This is an "ohhh, sure, we're going to do this" followed by a "well, not enough people followed it, so we're dropping it". That or it will be DRM laden enough that it's a flaming piece of turd. This is a complete unsubstantiated claim by the MPAA right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they simply restore that one download site they created before that was dropped...maybe someone else remembers the name. The day MPAA offers "legit online downloads" means the day they accept piracy.

Re:Fine print

[Dan541]

Wait until they make the "accidental" listing of "illegal" torrents.

Confusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Confusion - that is how I will plead.

Good idea

[16K Ram Pack]

I was recently trying to find a music track. Happy to go legal, but I wanted it in MP3 format, but there were lots of crap sites that got spidered, but when I clicked took me to sites which only had it in Windows Media.

In the end, I bought a second hand CD and ripped it.

But a site that allows you to search for a movie/music track, where you specify the target/format seems like a good idea.

Legal downloads?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool, now that I know there are legal movie download sites available and the fact that "many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online," I guess it's safe to assume that the links on thepiratebay and mininova are legal movie downloads.

It's a trap

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't buy anything they'll record your IP and launch a lawsuit.

Re:It's a trap

[grub]

If you don't buy anything they'll record your IP and launch a lawsuit.

I don't doubt they'll set up a cookie from another seemingly innocuous domain they own then advertise that domain on torrent sites and see what cookies check in...

Tinfoil hat needs more layers perhaps but I wouldn't put that past them.

Your search...

[Spy der Mann]

"Batman thepiratebay torrent" did not yield any results.

Re:Your search...

[Anonymous Coward]

Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "batman thepiratebay torrent". (0.12 seconds)

Slashdot | MPAA Plans To Launch Movie Links Site
by Spy der Mann (805235) on Monday July 28, @04:27PM (#24374443) Homepage Journal. "Batman thepiratebay torrent" did not ...
yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/28/194228 - 1 hour ago - Similar pages

Holy FSM Google is amazing. It hasn't even been an hour.

Re:Your search...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no qualms with reasonable levels of copyright infringement (especially in the case of porn ... oh pureTNA, how did I ever live without you), but seriously, this is one you want to see on the big screen. Lots of shit blows up / is bat-kicked in the face etc. Oh and believe the hype, Heath Ledger's Joker is just about perfect.

Re:Your search...

[Spy der Mann]

Actually my point was that guys who want to pirate movies WILL resort to torrent sites. It's ridiculous to say they're confused.

Now what I'd like to find are legal music purchase sites. The problem is, I'm scared of my bank account being drained so it's safer to just download from torrent sites than from a relatively unknown mp3 store. I'd only trust sites like Amazon (still waiting for their intl. sales to open).

Paranoia or legit concern?

[Exanon]

Is it just me being paranoid or have I learned my lesson from the whole MediaSentry debacle?

The ability for MPAA to log your IP and your search query gives them a precise target to look for in whatever data they collect from various filesharing networks (with the help of either MediaSentry or someone else).

I know I am sounding paranoid, but at this point I would not be surprised.

Re:Paranoia or legit concern?

[Reziac]

Hmm, I think you've got a very legit concern there...

So what about a proxy that hooks to the service?

Which I suppose is all well and good until the proxy gets compromised :/

Here's a better idea: get the existing torrent sites onboard as distributors. Give them a cut of every sale. They'll be quickly incentivized to make it easier to find paid downloads than freebies.

Easy Fix

[Renraku]

How about they link us to fairly priced movies?

Fuck paying DVD prices for a crappy quality movie you can't burn to your own DVD. You get no packaging, no extra materials, no DVD, nothing except for the movie file itself. All for the same price. Wal-Mart is a few minutes down the road and if I catch them on a sale, the WM version can be cheaper than the online version!

If the download version were quite a bit cheaper than the real version, hell, I'd do that before I bought the movie most likely.

Re:Easy Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

If the download version were quite a bit cheaper than the real version, hell, I'd do that before I bought the movie most likely.

If you mean a few dollars then great. DVD prices are way too high anyway. For some stupid reason the studios pump more and more money into special effects and overrated actors wages thinking it makes a movie better. You end up with piss-poor remakes and sequels and very little else.

Pirate the movie until it hits a more realistic price.. maybe they'll get the message.

Re:Easy Fix

[dw604]

Agreed.. In fact, I don't even download illegally because the quality sucks. I use a Netflix-like service and I'm happy to pay for it. If DVDs were $5-$10 each a few months after release I'd probably buy a lot of them. $5 makes sense to me - I might only watch each movie a total of 5 times the first few years and maybe once a year, if that, after that. As it is, buying DVDs is far too rich for my blood.

All we need now...

[neokushan]

...is for someone to steal the template of their shitty site and make a duplicate site that only serves up illegal links (ala the late great TV-Links and the numerous alternatives that appeared when it shut down).
That way, we get what we want AND completely undermine their "consumers are just confused" charade.

Research

[Wiarumas]

"...their research showed many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online."

Were these users interrogated under a heat lamp in a dark room with the usual good cop bad cop routine?

Not that aweful of an idea IMO.

[RingDev]

A year ago I was working on a PDA based Media PC controller. I could, from work, on my wifi-enabled PDA, pull up the week's line up for all of my local cable channels, set up reminders, flag shows for recording, change the media PC's channel, start up DVD's, change the volume, etc... on the media PC sitting in my living room.

But what I really wanted was a reliable and LEGAL way to download content. Sure, I'll pay $3 to rent a movie with a 72-hour DRM on it. Heck, I used to pay $3-5 to rent movies off of Charter's on demand system. If a movie is worth watching twice, I'll go buy it, if not, I'll rent it for a night, enjoy the show, and not clutter up my house with yet another DVD that I'm not going to watch. I'm fine with that, so long as it plays with out difficulty, and allows ample time to see the movie. But, at the time, there was no functional way to achieve this.

If this new service offers that opportunity, even if it is just a standardized public listing, I'm all for it. Open up an API and let us integrate it into other systems.

-Rick

Re:Not that aweful of an idea IMO.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.

The idea is not full of awe.

Re:Not that aweful of an idea IMO.

[Mascot]

I would also love a reliable and legal way to download content. Unfortunately, I peeked at the article and couldn't see any mention about establishing a new distribution channel. They're talking about redirecting people to the channels that already exist.

If there was a way for me to buy virtually any release as a 1080p mkv or DVD image, for a handful of dollars, I would be all over that service.

The problem is, it doesn't exist. And it won't. These are the same guys that ensure your Blu-Ray player is designed to install a software payload bundled with any new movie title, enabling them to do whatever they want with your player and your access to the content on your discs, at their discretion. And that won't let you view your HD movies at full resolution if you happened to have bought your TV a week before some HDCP revision was finalized (I'm not sure it's enabled on current discs, but it will be, oh yes it will be). I am willing to pay the premium for a Blu-Ray player at current prices, as well as the higher initial cost for movies. Heck, there are even quite a few movies I already own on DVD that I would pony up fresh cash to get in HD. What I am not willing to do is accept the DRM that turns a purchase into an uncertain rental. So I download the mkv, watch, and delete instead.

An online offering that will challenge the quality and convenience of illegal downloads? They're not even thinking the thought. God forbid, if they did they would actually get some of my money. It doesn't seem they want it that bad though.

Re:Not that aweful of an idea IMO.

[langelgjm]

A year ago I was working on a PDA based Media PC controller. I could, from work, on my wifi-enabled PDA, pull up the week's line up for all of my local cable channels, set up reminders, flag shows for recording, change the media PC's channel, start up DVD's, change the volume, etc... on the media PC sitting in my living room.

For anyone who's interesting in doing this for themselves, check out MythTV. You can log into a web interface and see your lineup, schedule recordings, etc. There's also a web-based remote, so you can sit on the couch with your PDA and use it to change channels over Wifi.

Plus, if you're using it to record stuff from your cable connection, there's nothing illegal about it. At least, not yet.

Re:Not that aweful of an idea IMO.

[Joker1980]

Well said, the only one of these services i have used is the xbox live video store. Generally i quite like it, you can choose ur quality and SD stuff isnt to badly priced, its resonably quick and hassle free. Unfortunatly i wont be using it again till they change the 24 hour bullshit limit. I downloaded one a few weeks ago nothing better to do, got 10 mins into it when my sister phoned me in a panic, she'd broken down and needed a tow home. To cut a long story short it was the next day after work i went to finish my purchased rental but the time had expired. Didnt even get to watch it once. and they wonder why people pirate.

Not Necessarily Bad...

[Kneo24]

I actually have no clue where any of these websites are that allow you to download movies or what their terms are. So in the end, I guess this website they're planning can't be that bad as long as they list reasonable alternatives to the whole "piracy" thingy.

I don't think this will change my habits. I like to download a movie before I buy it or even go to see it in a theater. Remember, part of the theater experience is the comfortable seats with a large screen and surround sound. And, you know, the opportunity to do a chick in the back seats and get arrested for indecent exposure.

Be a little more positive, assholes!

[imsabbel]

Seriously, those comments up to know just prove the MPAA to be perfectly correct.

In fact, i think it is a great idea, as it might show them that decent offers will get sales.
Because right now, _I_ wouldnt know where to to buy movie ***** if i felt like it.
Music? Yeah, amazon or itunes. But movies still feels like an unexplored country.

And i am sure that DRM-free movies wont take as long as DRM-free music did. Because music is a medium thats shared/swapped/used repeatably in a much larger degree.

Re:Be a little more positive, assholes!

[andrewd18]

Because right now, _I_ wouldnt know where to to buy movie ***** if i felt like it.

There's this great new invention called a "store" that you can use to purchase goods and services you might not be able to find otherwise. I hear these "stores" are growing in popularity these days due to their quick access times from local mirrors. You can find a list of local mirrors at this page: http://maps.google.com.

It's true.

[rtechie]

The /. crowd is pretty savvy, but surveys have shown that over 50% of Internet users, especially overseas, believe P2P content is LEGAL. I knew the Napster people, and most Napster users also believed that Napster was 100% legal.

People sincerely believe all sorts of obviously wrong things all the time. 30% of Americans believe Barack Obama is a Muslim. 60-70% of Americans believe in Creationism. etc.

Re:It's true.

[R2.0]

"The /. crowd is pretty savvy, but surveys have shown that over 50% of Internet users, especially overseas, believe P2P content is LEGAL. I knew the Napster people, and most Napster users also believed that Napster was 100% legal."

Keep in mind that in some foreign countries they ARE legal.

"People sincerely believe all sorts of obviously wrong things all the time. 30% of Americans believe Barack Obama is a Muslim. 60-70% of Americans believe in Creationism. etc."

Belief is a funny thing, especially when there is a kernel of truth in there. I believe Obama _was_ a Muslim the same way my Dad _was_ Lutheran - he was born into the religion by nature of having at least 1 parent as a member. He converted to Catholicism about 20 years after marrying my Mom, and Dad never really practiced his religion either (still doesn't, really), but he's not going to deny it and say "No, I was never a Lutheran". The rhetorical contortions the Obama camp are going through to avoid the "M" word just feed the perception that he has something to hide.

But the Creationists are just idiots.

Re:It's true.

[hellwig]

Are you saying Christians don't believe in the existence of copyright law or Barack Obama? That's a pretty wide-sweeping generalization. I know it may be hard to explain things to christians when their only reponse is "Because it's in the bible", but surely some of them must have some sense of reason.

I remember using scour.net back in the day (1997) to download my mp3s. I thought it was cool because people could share their music, just like copying a casette tape or recording a song off the radio. Back then you were lucky to find an mp3 ripped at 128kbps (most often they were 64 or 92). I knew copying games was wrong (though I did it anyway), but music just seemed like an innoecent thing to copy when I was 15. I know now that copyright infringement is wrong, and that I am violating the law even by watching or listening to legitamately purchased CDs and DVDs.

The problem with people today isn't that they think something is okay to do, they just don't care. There's a wierd sense of entitlement that people have these days (mp3/divx pirating, OpenSource, etc...). Until people realize that things have value (even if not to them personally), and that taking anything of value is wrong, they will continue to loot and steal and pirate.

I know, I know, self-responsibility went the way of the dinosaurs. There are some things the music and movie industry CAN do to help the issue out. First, reduce the price. Why does a CD cost me $15-$20 in the store? Unlike a movie, there's really no upfront cost right? There are no sets to build, locations to fly to, etc.... All you need is the artist (who should get paid based on the success of their music) and a well-trained sound-editor. After that, it's an arbitrary amount of money to print and distribute the physical media. As for movies, you should have made back your investment in the initial theater release (7.50 is pretty cheap for a matinee these days). The DVD's are pure profit (I've seen some real shitty DVD menus so I know there's no money going into DVD development). Why do I need to pay $20-$30 for a "brand-new release" when I saw the movie in the theater 3-months earlier.

These industries should be realizing that the large profit margins they've enjoyed up to this point simply won't hold. People are revolting [against the studios], but rather than adjust to meet the demands, the studios are simply alienating everyone from their product. Charging more to protect your profits certainly isn't going to convince more people to pay for your product, and will just drive away those who could barely afford to pay what your were already asking. I know I personally have bought only 4 CDs in the last 5 years, have never paid to download a DRM-crippled song or album, and wait till a moive hits the $5 bin at Wal-Mart, but I also have the good sense to just live-without rather than illegally download something I can't get for the price I want.

On the plus side, there are lots of MP3 stores out now (Rhapsidy, etc...) so maybe I'll finally get to listen to some recent music.

Re:It's true.

[Firehed]

Belief is a funny thing, especially when there is a kernel of truth in there. I believe Obama _was_ a Muslim the same way my Dad _was_ Lutheran - he was born into the religion by nature of having at least 1 parent as a member. He converted to Catholicism about 20 years after marrying my Mom, and Dad never really practiced his religion either (still doesn't, really), but he's not going to deny it and say "No, I was never a Lutheran". The rhetorical contortions the Obama camp are going through to avoid the "M" word just feed the perception that he has something to hide

Well, you were good through the first sentence anyways. I have a non-practicing-effectively-atheist Jewish father and a doesn't-practice-anymore Christian (maybe?) mother. I've always been an atheist. Yes, I was born into a half-Jewish-half-Christian family and while I managed to snag presents for both religions never believed in or practiced either. If your father practiced Lutheranism (?) and no longer does that's one thing, but I get the impression that he's never been religious and has just inherited a false title.

Thirded on the creationists being idiots, though.

Re:It's true.

[harryjohnston]

Anecdotal, I know, but my own experience bears this out. I honestly suspect that a high proportion of average folks do assume that if a web site offers something it must be legal ... heck, if it weren't, the site would have been shut down already, right? (Actually this was usually in the context of TV shows rather than movies, but whatever.)

Re:It's true.

[rtechie]

Keep in mind that in some foreign countries they ARE legal.

In Korea, in Japan, in China? Not legal, but many people there believe it is.

The rhetorical contortions the Obama camp are going through to avoid the "M" word just feed the perception that he has something to hide.

McCain is trying to portray Obama as a "secret Muslim", not as "Obama's father was a Muslim". The thinly-veiled racism inherent in the Republican party is on full display here. And with McCain personally for that matter. He hated MLK and campaigned against the civil rights movement. He was a huge supporter of apartheid. He STILL hates Nelson Mandela and the ANC. He opposed the bill to remove the ANC and Mandela from the terrorist watch list.

Re:It's true.

[R2.0]

I'll only bother demolishing 1 of your "arguments" (for lack of a better term). You say that: "He hated MLK and campaigned against the civil rights movement."

From Wikipedia:

"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and became a naval aviator, flying ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he nearly lost his life in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. Later that year while on a bombing mission over North Vietnam, he was shot down, badly injured, and captured as a prisoner of war by the North Vietnamese. He was held from 1967 to 1973,"

From 54-58, he was in the Naval Academy, where the midshipmen don't have time to jerk off, much less "campaign". 58-67, he was flying planes from aircraft carriers - not exactly a hotbed of political reactionaries. And then from 67-73, he was in a POW camp. When and how, exactly, did he "campaign" against MLK? Got any references? I assume the rest of your screed is similarly well researched.

Re:It's true.

[rtechie]

He was held from 1967 to 1973

He campaigned against MLK's birthday being made a national holiday, and it's hard not to interpret that as a campaign against MLK. From the same Wikipedia article:

In 1983, McCain was elected to lead the incoming group of Republican representatives.[57] Also that year, he opposed creation of a federal Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, but admitted in 2008: "I was wrong and eventually realized that, in time to give full support [in 1990] for a state holiday in Arizona."[71][72]

Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[Opportunist]

People don't download copies of movies because they're free, but because they're free.

When you get a download from a P2P network, you get no DRM, no country restriction, no copy restriction, no media restriction, no troubles, no fuss, just a movie.

When you buy a movie, there's a chance that your player won't read it (because it's a DVD-Rom drive instead of a standalone player, which I don't have and don't see any reason to get), a near certainty that you can't put the movie on your server (which makes it much more convenient to play than to search for the DVD every time you want to play it), a good chance that a "foreign" movie gives you some headaches and no chance to put it on your mobile device (and for some odd reason, I don't see the reason to pay twice for content).

Here's your reason for copying. It's convenience, that's all. Care to tell me how I should explain people to pay for something AND have more hassle using it?

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[diodeus]

Yeah, and you're not forced to sit through *^&%$#@ non-skippable previews.

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[jedidiah]

I wish I could take my Tivo remote to the cinema and use the 30-skip button to skip all the crap before the movie...

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I download.

I get a digital copy I can store on a central file server for ease of use, and no DRM means I can play it on whatever I want, whenever I want, and don't have to live in fear that the service supporting the DRM might go under (MSN and Yahoo have already done such).

Such a product is not for sale so I download it.

Now, I'm on one of those shitty ISP's that includes a bandwidth cap, so I'm not able to get all the stuff I might want sometimes. If there was a store, a real brick and mortar type store where I could go and pay 5-10 bucks for a disk to copy over to my movie server I'd be happy to. Doubly so since a lot of the times I want older movies which are harder to come by on torrents.

Bottom line; Sell me the product I want and I'd stop downloading.

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[RightSaidFred99]

I don't know, maybe because stealing is wrong? The correct response to "I don't like your content distrubution model" is a refusal to purchase the product until rectified. Stealing it and then justifying it as "getting one over on the fat-cats" is still just stealing. And don't get me wrong - I've done it in the past. I just didn't make up ridiculous excuse after ridiculous justification to make myself sound like Robin Fucking Hood when I did it.

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[Opportunist]

One of the few occasions when I'm happy about my bad habit of being late constantly...

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[Opportunist]

Not an excuse, just an explanation.

The core problem is twofold. One, that (unlike with "normal" products), you actually get more value from ripping instead of buying. When I buy some sort of crap, I got "consumer rights". I can take it home, unwrap it, find out if it works and if it doesn't, I got (depending on your country) up to a few years to bring it back in and trade it for a new one. Now try that in a shady back alley fell-off-a-truck deal.

And the other side is that yes, I don't buy DRMified junk. I also don't "steal" it, don't worry. 99% of todays movies ain't even worth the bandwidth to copy them. But guess what? Me neither going to the movies nor buying the DVD is not seen as simply abstaining from it, instead I'm outright accused of stealing the junk. As if the idea of simply not having something is so alien in our world of constant consume. It seems it's simply impossible to say credibly that yes, hey, I do not consume your crap. I don't like your business model, I don't like the way you treat me, a paying customer, to hell with you and your crap.

No. It can't be. How do I dare to claim I could live without Batman 15 and Scary Movie 12? I have to steal it, that's gotta be it, it can't be that people simply turn their back to the whole overhyped movie crap and just found something sensible to do with their time.

Re:Nonono, MPAA, you got it all wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Until the studios can match the quality of service offered by the pirates they will continue to lose.

We're just not explaining it right.

[mcmonkey]

This is one of those debates I find fun because pretty much everyone is wrong. If you're getting something for free that you normally have to pay for, how is that not illegal?

It's like the pennies in the tray at the cash register...

Re:We're just not explaining it right.

[jedidiah]

...or listening to radio. ...or watching TV. ...or web surfing.

Re:We're just not explaining it right.

[Firehed]

It's like the pennies in the tray at the cash register...

In the sense that they're worth more melted down as raw materials than as presently available? Most of the recent movies would have been a whole lot better off if the projector, the film, and the underpaid geek hadn't gotten together alone in a dark room.

Re:We're just not explaining it right.

[seanonymous]

Ok, so maybe this will help explain how some people (like myself) rationalize a little pirate goodness from time to time:

1. A movie comes out, call it Bennigin's Shins, and I decide that I will never ever watch that movie, 'cause judging by the trailer, I feel that it is crap.

2. It comes out on DVD, and I still think it's crap and I'm not going to rent it.

3. It hits the bargain bin, and I still refuse to pay a dime for it.

4. I happen to be perusing a torrent site, and I see Bennigin's Shins, and I think, well, it's crap, but it's free, and I've got the flu and time to kill, so what the hell.

So, being that there was never a chance that I would have paid to see that movie, how is anyone loosing money by my watching the bootleg copy?

Oh, and step 6 is Profit.

Oblig...

[halsver]

It's a trap!

Curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Because [MPAA's] research showed 'many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online.

Curious, they still don't have problem suing kids with couple of movies downloaded from the Internet, much like RIAA does.

Sounds good to me

[Ponzicar]

Better this than suing six year olds and grandmothers. Setting up a system where people can conveniently and legally watch movies on their computers is going to do a lot more for fighting piracy than their previous tactics.

Re:Sounds good to me

[eiapoce]

youtube docet ;) plenty of movies to watch.

My next RIAA MPAA defense...

[g0bshiTe]

ME: Your Honor, honestly. I couldn't tell that the file I downloaded wasn't legal.
JUDGE: The photos of nude people advertising porn sites on the download pages should have set off a flag.

Re:My next RIAA MPAA defense...

[dougmc]

ME: but every site has those!
JUDGE: no, they don't.
ME: they do! Look! (shows laptop, and indeed every site does have them.)
JUDGE: uhh ... google isn't supposed to look like that ...

(Of course, a computer literate judge? Bizarro world ...)

Spyware/worms/etc. can do fun things like that. And when you download stuff that you don't know what it even is ... guess what you tend to get?

Oblig Futurama

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Huh, I thought there were only two, well I guess three is enough...

links

[Anonymous Coward]

so they are going to host a site that is going to link to sites that have movies for download, or links to buy, or links for where to get a ticket.

if (other than first month that movie is out in theatre only, which is changing for some titles these days) more than 10% of movies released in the last 10 years have links to free viewing or download, i will be completely surprised.

what i bet will happen, is that the only movies that are legally "free to download" will in actuality not be a movie that still is under copyright, and even if it is, it will be the POS that you normally have when you search for a movie via a search engine - a TRAILER for said movie rather than the movie itself.

what i am surprised is that the mpaa has not started CHARGING for trailers. i mean come on, the mpaa has to take the time to see if the trailer is acceptable for all audiences or if it is a 'r-rated' trailer (oh wait, can they sue me now b/c i quoted 'r-rated', they have a copyright or trademark or something on that which would require me pay them $100+ just to say that word, right?)

its funny. a movie ticket is $8-12. a dvd is $20 (first weeks out), after about three (3) months the dvd is $5. i think we should all play the waiting game and wait when its cheap enough for us to actually afford it (e.g. no theatres, no first run dvds, no blu-ray, etc) and then we can all get dvds for $10 or less.

and then the mpaa will change its tune about that they make X on dvds and Y (which is less than X) on digital media. i dont see why we have to watch ads at theatres when tickets are 2-3 times what it was when i was a kid (10-15 years ago) inflation, yea - thats it.

Here's where the real confusion is...

[Channard]

.. in the file sharing software! Okay, I'm not suggesting most people who download music or movies don't know it's illegal, but working in a PC store, I've seen some genuinely confused people. People who paid money for Limewire or some other software and then thought they were legally allowed to download as much music as they liked.

Trouble differentiating between legal and illegal.

[eiapoce]

Because their research showed 'many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online.

I have this problem everytime. It's hard for me to discriminate between a DVD rent at 4$ and a DRMed download at 9.99$ and still come out believing it's not a plain robbery. Good MPAA that's the way to go...

Confused me anyways.

[zigmeister]

I was always confused if my pr0n was legit or not. In fact, not only was I confused, but it upset me morally that I had no reasonable method of determining whether or not such and such gang bang XXX was a pirated copy or not. I tried watching the entire flick multiple times, immersed myself in the genre, but never found a solution. I can die in peace now.

Hey...

[FlyingSquidStudios]

You think they have links for downloading Steal This Film?

What they really mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because their research showed 'many users have a hard time differentiating between legal and illegal content online.' And all this time I thought people pirated movies because it was cheaper to do! Turns out they were just confused."

I think what they actually mean is that users who really want to legally buy downloadable Hollywood movies have a hard time finding one because hitting Google with queries like "download [movie]" only show tons of torrents, usenet- and Rapidshare-files and many sites that cost money and look legit but aren't. They seem to think that there are enough of these people to make an index of legal sources (which I can't believe has not been done already anyway as simple index-sites like this are a good source for easy adsense money with very little maintanace. I will start a competitor during my summer break if it turns out that there is nothing mature available. Can I get on /. too with it, then? :P))

For the "real" pirates, that idea is just another wasted attempt. Ever heard two pirates on a ship arguing about their influence on economics and the quality of traded goods? "I just plunder man, get off my back."

It's funny to see...

[kmx69]

...that everytime RIAA, MPAA, Porn, Iphone, etc. are brought up in a subject line, /. users come to life and fill the thread with lines and lines of text. To say those terms are "thought provoking" is an understatement. In any case, to make my version short: MPAA/RIAA should change their business model, admit they won't profit as much as they did before, and move on. Baby steps...

Legitimate concern

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean Media-Defender? They're the ones who had their email hacked and put on The Pirate Bay. MediaSentry (now known as SafeNet) is the RIAA's "expert" witness.

That said, I don't trust any media-sponsored YouTube knockoffs and you're exactly right about why we shouldn't.

Still, I wonder what they'll do about trolling? I have half a mind to use a proxy and submit Goatse as the "download location" for all their crappy films just to make a point. After all, it's not incorrect when you realize that they pulled those crappy plotlines out of their asses to begin with...

Why are they doing this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's my idle speculation:

They want to add more noise to the signal in the search area so that it is harder to get to the illegal content that people are actually searching for. This really just makes it more time consuming, which does have the potential to slow piracy.

Also, they want to profile and data mine everyone who is searching for illegal content online for potential lawsuits or police action based on that bill that Howard Berman introduced to create the copyright police.

Also, now they can claim that they really do care about protecting the artists/content and aren't just lawsuit whores. Make no mistake. They ARE lawsuit whores.

I don't think you or anyone for this understand...

[plasmacutter]

Ok. Name a *less* intrusive DRM system

You don't seem to get it, any drm system period is an utter insult to me, and to most people here.

They require proprietary formats, which lock out superior OSS playback tools (as well as many OTHER proprietary ones), and subsist because of a law which has utterly destroyed competition and innovation in playback and recording technology.

Their presence is an accusation of criminality, and a proclamation that i'm not allowed to own what I buy.

I don't want a corporation circumventing judicial review and due process to manage my digital rights!

Differentiation

[deepgrey]

Could the people in this research perhaps have also voted in a certain election in Florida?

It's MY content, I bought it!

[znerk]

Complaining about iTunes installing Quicktime is like complaining about the VLC Player installing the VLC Libraries.

Yeah, I can see that. So where do I sign up to complain about QuickTime installing iTunes? All I wanted to do was view a movie trailer, and I ended up having to fight my pc for half an hour to get that useless piece of software back out of my pc. Then, a week later, QuickTime updated itself and put iTunes back on when I wasn't looking. I never planned on buying anything from iTunes, but now I plan on never buying anything from Apple. It is now my firm belief that Apple is just as evil as any other BigCorp(tm). I don't want to own an iAnything, and their software can go fly a kite, too.

We need some sort of standardized, cross-platform system for DRM.

No.
Not just no, but Hell no.
What we actually need is no DRM. When you play the arms race game, someone has to lose. When the two players are the content providers and the people who purchase the content, having either side lose means that both do. Lose-lose was never a good outcome, in my book.

Besides, there's always the analog hole.

You want non-intrusive DRM? Do what I do; Rip every piece of media you own, and don't buy into the over-hyped digital bullshit. These store-bought disks are my music, they're my movies, and I'll watch and listen to them when I want, where I want, and how I want. Don't settle for anything less than full satisfaction.

I refuse to purchase anything that doesn't give me physical media and/or a complete lack of encumbrance. Besides, copying stuff is the American Way, we've been Xeroxing wrappers for our VHS tapes and audio cassettes for decades. What are the big corporations going to do when the RepRap (a 3D printer that uses polymer resin, google it for more info) becomes wildly popular? Make it illegal to do your own 3D modelling? It's time they wake up and smell the new paradigm they're living in. I'm tired of them stinking up the place.

--
MAFIA: Music And Film Industries of America - harassing customers for fun and profit!

real reasons I download

[Anonymous Coward]

10 - Plays on everything (no DRM)
9 - No DRM
8 - No need for an internet connection (no DRM)
7 - My 4 yr old wont scratch it
6 - I don't have to rewind (or put it back in the case)
5 - No trailers (I bought the movie, why do I need to watch trailers?!?)
4 - No DVD menus (I don't want wait 2 minutes to watch a mandatory intro to the movie I'm about it watch)
3 - I can't even choose what commands work on my remote (looks like they blocked the Menu button here, or I can't fast forward this part, etc)
2 - I can find nearly any movie in DVD quality in under 30 seconds.
1 - No FBI warning

How much would you pay??

[TheCastro]

I open this up to everyone, how much would you pay for a movie that was not high quality, lets say downloaded in a reasonable amount of time to your computer, could only be used on one computer (extra for more?), and did not let you burn it? My personal say is $2.50. Not because that's how much the Lockness Monster wants, but because I only buy movies for around $10. When they have no bonus features, but come in a box, and I can view them on any machine capable of playing DVDs, and can let my friends borrow them for free (oh shit, is that illegal now?); I feel they are worth $10. I only pay $16 or $17 for new releases at Target or BestBuy etc, but they come with lots of cool stuff and the chance to buy other movies only slightly related to the one I purchased for $5. So $2.50 is how much I'd pay for my laptop to play DVDs, why use my iMac when I have a tv? The only reason I'd download these movies is to play them on my IBM laptop with zero battery life (I hate how an older laptop becomes a desktop, you know?)

actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty cool idea.

The MPAA finally has an anti-piracy idea that I can get behind.

On my case...

[TheDarkMaster]

... is very simple: I do not go on cinema to see one film on - at most - VCD quality (cinema quality on my city is a big issue), and I don't like to use a full-bloatware winDVD or Cyberlink to view a "original" DVD (use only Media Player Classic, but he can't open original CSS-protected DVDs)

obs: sorry the bad english, is difficult to translate brazilian to english into a way you can understood my idea

Re:On my case...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never had problems watching normal DVDs with MPC..

It's not entirely wrong...

[Bones3D_mac]

A couple weeks ago, a relative wanted me to download about 40 songs for free using one of the P2P services to be burned onto CDs. After explaining to them that obtaining songs this way would be a great way to get sued and showing them iTunes Music Store as an alternative, they got upset about the fact that it would cost them money to obtain same the music they could find for free elsewhere.

The mindset here, is that if it were illegal to obtain copyrighted materials for free from a P2P service, then why are these services allowed to host the files in the first place? They don't comprehend the dynamic nature of P2P networks that makes it nearly impossible to shut down such a service or impose any content enforcement on it. They just see P2P services as a single entity that exists at a fixed location in the real world.

What's more interesting, is that the older a given person is, the more likely they are to have similar hang-ups, simply because they aren't savvy enough to see it any other way.

Re:It's not entirely wrong...

[evilninjax]

This is partly what the **IA is fighting and partly the FAULT of the **IA b/c of how they've proceeded.

It's very easy for a particular convenience to set into a mind. Then it's really REALLY difficult to change that mindset. So, early on, mp3 filesharing got the mindshare and so now there's a very real problem of many people (especially sub-college aged) to think of music as free and to not even consider the option of paying.

But the RIAA could have intercepted this early on with their approach. Instead of fighting it, causing the filesharers to advance their technologies, the big Media Conglomerates could have leveraged it for their own benefit. True, if they had offered DRM-free mp3s on a pay-basis, there would have been many sneaker-net sharing, but the mindset would still be that "you SHOULD pay for the music."

I honestly think it's too late for the music industry to totally recoup this; i could be rong as iTunes does seem to be selling alot of music, but then the death of Zune and MS plays for never and now Yahoo's drm going away could set it back.

BUT, i think the movie industry still has a chance to establish themselves in the mindshare. While the savvy ones have been downlaoding divx/xvid AVIs/MKVs, using UpnP media servers, and media-shifting their DVDs for a while now, the general populance is only now starting to figure out that they WANT to do these things.

THe DVR has reached a critical mass where end-users are enjoying the convenience. So why shouldn't they consume movies in a similar fashion? They are used to putting a CD into the computer and easily having iTunes put it on their iPod, so why should a DVD be any different?

It's time that the people in charge at the MPAA start thinking about how to provide for their customers. If they do that, i tihnk they'll be surprised at how much they can actually profit from it, WITHOUT having to gouge them!

But then again, this is just all stuff that's been said 100x before, so why expect change now...

So they should maybe make it convenient!

[cyclomedia]

Indeed, so if they made it easy and convenient to watch their content for free from, say, any 'net connected set top box - embedding trailers and ads in the file while they're at it to recover some costs and linking directly to the online store for plastic-disc editions and merchandise that might solve their problem. Say, a bit like this: http://yro.slashdot.org/~cyclomedia/journal/207197

Re:So they should maybe make it convenient!

[Opportunist]

Actually a rather good and well thought out idea, but I see one problem: Control. That's what movie (and afaik music) industry is about.

Studios will want to retain control over their content. Mostly, where it is made available when and to what conditions. If you ever happen to be in South East Asia, take your time and wander to some booth selling legal content. Yes, they exist somewhere between the bootleg stores. It's just hard to tell them apart, you certainly can't by price, because legal copies cost the same cent amount the bootlegs do.

The reasons for this are fairly simple. In some areas it is virtually impossible to enforce copyright laws. And if you can't, well, you can't sell a CD for 20 bucks. So they sell it for 2 bucks. It's still more than nothing, it's still more than manufacturing the CD costs, so it's still paying towards the total fixed costs, which are insanely high when it comes to content.

Content, from a pure business point of view, is a high fixed, low variable cost commodity. So whatever price you can sell it for will contribute to paying the total fixed costs.

Those fixed costs have to be paid though, eventually. So what happens is that the (local) price is adjusted based on what you may sell for. In Europe and the US, this price is high because of strong copyright laws, so the US and Europe pay a lot more towards that fixed costs. In other areas, with less enforcable copyright laws, those prices have to be considerably lower to be able to compete with bootlegs. Nobody buys an original when the next booth offers you a bootleg for a tenth of the price, when there is a zero chance of fearing any legal problems.

Next problem is that no TV station on this planet could afford a "worldwide license" to broadcast. That's a risk nobody would be willing to take. Imagine Superbowl final, but larger. Worse, movie studios would never want that to happen either, since a worldwide license would mean they have to stop their rather profitable business of deciding what areas get what movies at what time. Dubbing is another issue I don't even want to touch right now (in a nutshell, it's a problem of cost and time).

The next problem is that TV networks producing their own shows wouldn't want worldwide exposure either. Sure, you could instantly at the very least tenfold your audience if you dumped Dr Who into a stream instead of just broadcasting it in the UK. But the money isn't in broadcasting, it's in licensing.

When you can sort out those problems, you can get the big studios on board. Until then, it's mostly a good idea for smaller studios and freelancers who'd get dicked over by distributors anyway, so they just dump it into the stream, hoping for better revenue.

Re:I don't think you or anyone for this understand

[cliffski]

just curious... how do you deal with this 'utter insult'. Do you pirate the music, or not listen to it at all?

And are you utterly insulted by security guards, cameras and security tags in clothes stores? Or are they ok?
How about the unique identifier that they screw to the front and back of every car to assist the authorities in prosecuting you if you break the law. are they ok? or does your car have no plates?

Well...

[Tastecicles]

...I never knew what to do with all those pesky plastic discs.

SKEET!

Re:I don't think you or anyone for this understand

[Enoxice]

Only if the security guards and cameras are in my house. Also, I don't know about you, but the cashier usually removes the security tags on clothes I bought before I leave the store.

Kill the theatres

[Quattro Vezina]

Piracy will always be prevalent as long as the MPAA follows the antiquated, anachronistic practice of releasing movies exclusively in theatres for their first several months.

You'd see piracy go down a lot if all new movies were released straight to DVD.

iTunes is Cthulhuware

[arth1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "takes over system functions".

Examples include, but are not limited to registering multiple file types to open with your own program instead of other programs that the user may have installed, displaying the icons of your app for file types instead of the icons the users already displayed, moving your own codec to a higher priority than other codecs on the system, changing bindings and behaviors of other programs, and perhaps most of all, not provide a method to get back to what the system was like before, even if you uninstall it.