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House Dems Turn Out the Lights On the GOP
Politico is reporting that while GOP leaders opposed a motion to adjourn the House, the Democrats have closed up shop and even turned out the lights. While the lights and microphones have since been turned back on, it makes for an amusing mental image and possibly even a few dark YouTube video spoofs. "Only about a half-dozen Republicans were on the floor when this began, but the crowd has grown to about 20 now, according to Patrick O'Connor. 'This is the people's House,' Rep, Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) said. 'This is not Pelosi's politiburo.' Democratic aides were furious at the GOP stunt, and reporters were kicked out of the Speaker's Lobby, the space next to the House floor where they normally interview lawmakers."
The summary didn't state everything. Pelosi was trying to stop a vote concerning foreign oil drilling. The REP's are currently mad and speaking to the public who have gathered in the upstairs gallery, arguing (one-sided, of course) their concerns and solutions for rising gas and energy prices.
As I recall in 2003 the GOP chair of a committee refused to allow the Democratic members of the committe to speak, ignored a motion to continue the hearing and stormed off WITH the gavel in hand...all this beacuse the dems wanted to call some witnesses for testimony.
I forget the details but google knows all.
wait until you see the singapore or korean parliament footages. circus doesnt describe it.
even in turkish parliament there has been a lot of fights, and one representative was killed even, by a stray fist landing unintendedly.
Read radical news here
They won't be holding the vote in a few weeks. Pelosi doesn't intend to ever have the vote.
Point of order! Unparliamentary language!
You didn't need to cheapen your post with the silly, biased commentary.
"It may work. If the Democrats did this, the media would be happy to portray them as whiny little losers who didn't know when to go home. (Which would basically be accurate.)
But since it's Republicans doing it, the media -- including Slashdot, in this case -- will find amusement in what the Dems "did" to the GOP."
Seriously? You think the media and slashdot have republican bias?
Yep, you missed the story.
When the motion to adjourn was made, over 100 Republicans were signed up to speak for 5 minutes each on oil/energy. The Dems abused the rules (and yes the Republicans do this too, but not nearly as much) in an attempt to prevent those folks from speaking. Now some (most) of those Republicans were undoubtably (Sturgeon's Law) going to be an utter waste of their 5 minutes.
What you do is ask how often does the Speaker order the lights, microphones, and cameras shut down when the House adjourns? (C-SPAN is contracturally required to carry whatever is being said in the House regardless of whether or not it is in session).
So I'm not going to tell you what to think, but what I plainly observed was the Dems gaming the system (the rules of the House) to prevent the Republicans from speaking. When it comes to gaming the system, the donkeys in both House and Senate have shown far less restraint than the elephants. (Or would you prefer Red vs Blue?)
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
The house adjourned prematurely instead of discussing energy policy. Let's emphasize the correct word here.
Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
At least they're not engaging in fisticuffs.
like they did around the civil war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks#Sumner_Assault
and again in 1902:
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Senate_Fistfight.htm
Or like they do in Bolivia:
http://www.blinkx.com/video/fist-fight-in-bolivia-congress/BUTRtHbu7LQxO1wF
And we can at least be glad no one got shot by the vice president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks#Sumner_Assault
Er... uh... well, rather at least no one was MURDERED by the vice president in this instance.
Except that the august recess has always been in place, regardless of if you are a dem or a rep. Bush took vacations all the time and extended the amount of time taken compared to previous presidents. Such is not the case here. Also, The dems are preventing the vote as a matter of principle. There are already tons of areas approved for drilling that have not yet been used, the reps just want to drill in areas that are protected as any disaster in those areas if they were drilling could cause massive economic and environmental damage. The economic being the main part. California will not allow off short drilling because their economy is based on costal attractions and seaports. If there is a major oilspill there, you can kiss that goodbye. Why drill in higher risk places when you still other other reserves to tap?
For these reasons, the dems are preventing the vote. The already scheduled vacation time is just a means to an end. Trying to point to this as an example of hypocrisy is just dumb.
Yes, they voted themselves a paid one-month vacation, by a margin of one vote. Almost directly down party lines. All republicans save four voted nay, to stay in session and hammer out issues except for four who abstained. 17 democrats joined said republicans, 6 abstained. The rest of the democrats voted themselves a vacation.
link
And yes drilling will help. The very news of drilling will bring oil prices down. Speculation of approval of drilling has already brought prices down already, over $20 under the high of $147. Gas prices at least where I live are down $0.15 - $0.20 since six weeks ago. Tell people you are drilling and yeah, the oil won't enter the stream for 10, 15 years but the speculative properties alone will drop crude by another $20 or $40, easy.
You've a great deal of unfounded claims there.
This was not an abuse of rules, nor would any reasonable observer claim the Democratic Party members have "abused" the rules as aggressively (nor broken as many) as the Republicans who control the House for the previous 12 years. Simply adjourning - which cuts off formal floor debate inherently - is not comparable to changing bills after they had been passed, holding votes open longer than permissible or the abusive use of holds (in the Senate). Your claims to the contrary are transparently partisan.
I know Congress has a deserved reputation for wasting money, but somehow I don't think they keep all the microphones, cameras and lights on in the months they spend adjourned. And C-Span is not contractually required to carry what is being said in the House regardless of whether or not its in session; you invented that out of whole cloth. They frequently don't show House debate - for instance if there is a major political story or an important House committee meeting. To make such a suggestion implies an almost total lack of familiarity with the channel.
The Ds adjourned. They didn't let the Republicans control the agenda. Boo-hoo. The House is designed for majority rule and the Republicans should get used to it since few 'experts' think they'll have more than 200 members next term.
It's not. That's a recently propagated myth with no actual evidence behind it.
Why do amateurs, non-traders (in anything) keep thinking that this is all "speculators" or "commies" or some other bullshit that is driving oil prices high?
Commodity traders CANNOT affect long term oil prices if there is no problems with supply. The reason is if you buy oil, you have to take delivery of that oil. If supply outstrips demand all the time, the price will only go up if the traders pile up oil like crazy. But then what?? They have to SELL it on THE SAME market as the suppliers anyway. So, at some point in the future you end up with A LOT of extra supply getting pumped in and commodity traders end up LOSING A LOT OF MONEY!
Fortunately, these people are NOT so stupid to lose hundreds of billions to make oil prices go up for few weeks.
And don't even start to bring out the denier points about "record rentals of oil tankers", "oil tankers 4x price what they used to be" and similar crap that the global warming deniers bring up ("mars is warming" and similar horseshit). Smoke and mirrors, not reality people.
The REAL cause of the high prices is NOT the traders, it is the problems with supply. Supply cannot keep up with the DEMAND. So, prices go up. Prices go up until there is more supply, which will just not going to happen any time soon no matter what, or the demand drops. So far, the demand dropped a LITTLE. So, prices are coming down.
In commodity trading, you never think years in advance, you think days or maybe weeks in advance. The largest ??? regarding supply is still Israel/Iran issue. Then there is the problems with Nigerian supply. And finally, the demand for oil inside a lot of the oil producing countries is INCREASING VERY FAST (thanks to heavily subsidized fossil fuels there), meaning their exports are suffering. See Mexico as one very good example of that.
If Republicans were serious about an energy policy of the country, they would first mandate that ALL new pipelines between urban centers be able to carry both natural gas and hydrogen. And then they would fix the fiscal budgetary issues and start to invest in translating this economy from carbon to hydrogen. That's what they are there for - *strategic* planning, not reactionary shit they dreamed up because they are up for election in few months.
You're clearly not reading the same EIA reports the rest of us are. The delta appears to be about 0.2% of world supply.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
Your argument is essentially that they acted inappropriately because their adjournment was premature and was therefore a premature adjournment.
There was a perfectly valid vote where a majority chose to adjourn. Republicans wanted to take control of the agenda. They were not allowed to. The Senate had adjourned the day before. Its grandstanding by a party too used to being able to bully Democrats.
Congress always adjourns at this time of year. Everyone gets a vacation, just like you do. Just like your boss pays you vacation days, we pay them vacation days.
The only reason the GOP is pulling this crap is that they are relying on gas prices as a wedge issue for the Presidential Campaign. So, how about you turn your ire at campaigning at them since all of the QQing they are doing right now is an attempt to elect John McCain.
It's really an amazingly insulting ploy. The people responsible for the horrific gas prices are just pointing the fingers at the Democrats and people believe them. Seriously, man, take a step back and look at this for real.
The public overwhelmingly supports it? Citation or you're just talking out your ass. The last 3 polls I saw stated exactly the opposite.
My pleasue. Here you go. I got my poll results from CNN. Where are you getting yours?
73 percent of Americans favor offshore drilling.
I'd call 73 percent overwhelming, wouldn't you? And even in California, long an anti-drilling bastion, support for drilling is now at 51 percent and climbing.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
His schedule was often published...he typically did 1-1.5 hours of meetings when in Texas and the remainder of the time he "cleared brush" etc.
I do 1-1.5 hours of meetings a day when I am on vacation and I always keep the football around....sounds like Bush spent a lot of time on vacation and his performance demonstrates that.
Or could it be that they're not robots? They're human beings like everyone else. They need a break sometimes. There are diminishing returns when you work long hours over and over without a break. Congress is dumb enough. We don't need them making even dumber decisions because they're sleep deprived. Besides, the best kind of Congress is one that's on vacation. The fewer the new laws passed, the better this country runs.
It's not premature.
Search for ADJOURNMENT at govtrack.us and you'll see when Congress passes motions to adjourn.
Only looking at the ones during the summer for House/Senate:
Jun 29, 2006/Aug 4, 2006
Jun 28, 2007/Aug 4, 2007
Jun 26, 2008/Aug 1, 2008 (Senate isn't listed here yet)
It looks like a pretty damn standard time to adjourn.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/index.htm
US companies didn't bother to submit a bid because legally they couldn't drill that close to US shore. China has no such limitation.
Changing a bill after it had been passed
Holding open vote
(additional examples)
It is against House rules to keep a vote open in order to alter the outcome.
"Abusive holds" is difficult to quantify but I'd point towards Tom Coburn's extensive holds.
That is oil shale. Look it up, specifically how expensive it is to process. It won't even be economical to touch that until oil prices are even more expensive than they are now. No one is talking about tapping oil shale right now, so mentioning it is irrelevant.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
What if my business isn't sustainable with a 5% profit margin?
Why exactly wouldn't it be?
If your business isn't sustainable after ALL your expenses are paid, including your salary, r&d costs, and any other costs you might incurr and there is still money left over (hint - that's the 'profit'), then you are completely incompetent.
In a small sole proprietership, where the owner doesn't draw a wage, but rather just 'keeps the profits' as his compensation, then sure, if the profits aren't high enough to adequately compensate him, he will close the business. But it would be more accurate to say in that situation that from the perspective of the business, that it is actually unprofitable, because its not covering the cost of keeping its most important 'staff member'.
Corporations aren't run like this. Profits are used to grow the business (and growth, by definition, implies that it has already been 'sustained'. and in some cases, paid back to shareholders as dividends.
So in the case of big-oil, record profits are just that: an opportunity for them to grow and to further line the pockets of shareholders and investors.
So quit harping on the "record profits" of the oil companies. It just demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of economics at the most basic level.
While you just demonstrated your complete lack of understanding of business at the most basic level.
If the US has so little oil worth drilling, why is China (dealing with Cuba) drilling 50 miles off the coast of Florida.
If the world has so few whales, why do the Japanese hunt them? Because scarcity breeds profits.
Not to this extent. More cloture motions have been filed in this Congress than in any other. Sixty votes is almost standard procedure anymore. Lieberman votes like a Republican half the time, so the Democrats don't even have much of a majority of which to speak.
Of course. That is why I congratulated you and your party (I assume you identify as a Republican) on being such good obstructionists. That is your job as the minority party.
In my opinion, filibusters should be reserved for legislation that one believes to be unconstitutional. They should not be used for leverage nor for stopping the appointment of judges. Unfortunately, these are not the rules of the Senate and these rules require 67 votes to change.
I've had people ask me why Congress can't just give everyone a $1,000,000 bill, which would make us millionaires and consequently all rich. It'd eliminate poverty overnight. Maybe I just know a lot of stupid people. I recall the late George Carlin (paraphrased):
Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are even dumber than that!
We'll just have to disagree on the rest.
Actually C-Span went off too. They don't have control of the cameras.
But I've got to love it--we've got a hacker in the bunch:
The Politico reports, "Also, Republicans can thank Shadegg for turning on the microphones the first time. Apparently, the fiesty Arizona conservative started typing random codes into the chamber's public address system and accidentally typed the correct code, allowing Republicans brief access to the microphone before it was turned off again."
And PULEESE let's not pretend that Dems haven't done these stunts too. They've all run out to the steps to protest medicare changes, travelgate report and other times when they were in the minority and things weren't going their way.
Our Congress is tame when you compare it to other countries. Just try watching the PM speak before the UK parliment or legislation in places like Taiwan, India, S. Korea, etc. where they break out in fist fights.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
It's not against the rules, but it's arguably "gaming the system" - working within the rules to attain a result which grants you an unfair advantage or a result opposite that the rules were intended to insure. Most people naively think that the congress debates the great issues of the day and then votes on them. The idea that you can block a vote you might lose, or to avoid having to go on the record with your position strikes most people as an abuse of parliamentary procedure even if it's done in a way that rigorously follows the letter of those procedures. SO... the republicans engage in a little childish political theater to draw attention to it. It's childish, but then again it's not, often the nature of parliamentary procedure is such that political theater to highlight the majority's little hypocrisies is they only way to hold them accountable for them. The Democrats engaged in the same manufactured outrage and publicity stunts when they were in the minority as well.
There was a perfectly valid vote where a majority chose to adjourn. Republicans wanted to take control of the agenda. They were not allowed to.
Also the Democrats may have cloned the "adjourn and turn off the lights" ploy from the Republicans - except that the Democrats did it by the rules.
Here's how I understand it (from reports - I wasn't there - maybe somebody can correct any errors...)
At the Nevada Republican state convention (supposedly run by the delegates chosen in the district caucuses) the Ron Paul contingent was very strong. Romney had the most delegates, Paul was a close second, and McCain a distant third - though the party machine was for him. (Nevada is a very libertarian state and might have gone for Paul big-time except that, with a large Mormon population and a big campaign push, Romney squeaked by. Then Romney dropped out and endorsed McCain.)
The party elite ran the convention and pushed a rules change to elect a (McCain) slate they had chosen. Both the Paul and Romney deligates revolted, pushed through their own change (candidates proposed from the floor), and were busy selecting national delegates with Paul getting the lion's share.
The McCain delegates walked out to try to get below a quorum, but weren't successful. So they came back in.
Then (in violation of the rules, which requires a vote) the chair announced that the meeting was recessed (allegedly because the time for which they'd rented the hall had expired - turned out not to be true). The party hacks quick-walked out, shutting down the PA system and the lights on their way. By the time the delegates got things back on enough people had left in the confusion that they were below quorum (and somebody called for a count, which made that official and convinced the rest to leave, rather than pick a new chair and continue).
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
"Please, state for the record that you wish congress to enact more laws. "
I want congress to do more work you disingenuous fuck.
The oil companies have spend a lot of money finding economical ways to get shale, but the government is now preventing them to drill.
If you're going to do "Conservative math" and divide quarterly profit by annual revenue, you're going to come up with whatever numbers you want, like inany Republican economic analysis.
If you leave out a $290M Exxon-Valdez settlement (pennies on the dollar owed, and a onetime charge on decades of legal operations), Exxon actually profited $11.97 BILLION. Annualize that number, and you get $47.88 BILLION profit. Of about $404.55 BILLION 2007 revenue, that would be about 11.8% profit. On such a huge, global operation, with retail prices hitting all kinds of ceilings (like people forced to decide to skip food, healthcare or gas/heat), that is a fabulous profit rate on a fabulous amount of revenue. More than 5% profit on such huge revenues would still be fabulous. Especially when the rest of the US economy, that these giant revenue extractions are strangling, is shrinking and failing.
Now, if you want to go for Conservative economics gold, just suggest something irrelevant like "Wal-Mart is #2". Congratulations!
--
make install -not war
So on $400 an $11 markup is gouging? I want to shop where YOU shop.
I wanted to point out that those numbers are $11 billion per quarter and $400 billion per year. The correct numbers are $11.68b profit this quarter, on $138b revenue this quarter.
AND, do you want to know who's #2 in the 'record profits' field? Is it Shell, Conoco, etc? Nope, it's Walmart. Look it up.
I looked it up and you are incorrect. As of April 2008, the number two spot, sorted by profits, is indeed Royal Dutch Shell. Walmart is way down there at #19 (you'll have to count). See http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/18/biz_2000global08_The-Global-2000_Prof.html .
I'm not very fond with the title. This implies that the Democrats just randomly closed shop, while today was actually the first day of the August Recess -- a tradition which has existed for a long time. Apparently, some Republicans decided to stick around in the House.
There's a difference between a teacher walking out on the student and students staying after school ends.