LucasArts Embargoes "Clone Wars" Reviews

An anonymous reader writes "George Lucas CGI 'Clone Wars' movie has premiered to reviews ranging from MSNBC's 'Ugly animation and an uninspired storyline drag down the film' to AintItCool's 'I hated the film. HATED IT. REALLY HATED IT.' Critics have noted the animation style, music and slapstick humor had more than a passing similarity to Pixar's Toy Story, and wondered if the introduction of new action figures (sorry, characters) like Baby Jabba Hutt and Jabba the Hutt's Gay Uncle may have taken the franchise a bridge too far. Lucas responding by enforcing an embargo, forcing the reviews to be taken down. While sites like AintItCool.com responded, by then it was just a little too late. Still, the CGI eye candy will make it popular with kids. If the 'Clone Wars' movie can't save the galaxy, can it at least save the franchise?"

Comments

George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Can suck my dick.

Re:George Lucas

[bugeaterr]

Someone needs to have their mod points forcefully shoved up their ass

Don't you mean "FORCEfully" shoved up their ass?

Save the Franchise?

[k_187]

I think the franchise was lost among the faithful a long time ago. Somewhere between Mesaa and Jar-Jar Binks.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[kannibal_klown]

Eh, the books are still alright. I finished the "Legacy of the Force" series a month-or-so ago and enjoyed it though I was expecting more of a finale.

As far as video games go, some of the recent games were decent as well. The Jedi Knight series was great and the previews for their upcoming 3rd person game sound positive. Then again I haven't played Battlegrounds or SWG. Personally I want an updated "Tie Fighter" game, that was probably their best sim.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Chelloveck]

You young whippersnappers! Back in my day, all we had to hate were the Ewoks! And we liked it that way!

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

As far as I'm concerned, it was lost when Lucas decided to have Greedo shoot first over a decade after the movie finished its theatrical run. It's a bit late now, George.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Chelloveck]

Ewoks were cool

Wow. Seriously dude, I've never, ever heard those words used together like that.

I know! The Clone Wars is supposed to be so awful it'll make someone five years from now post "Jar-jar was cool."

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Joe the Lesser]

No, I could have put up with Jar-Jar, but the midichlorians were the true knife in the back.

However, the fanboy runs strong in this one, so I hope that one day there will be another good film or game for the universe, though for now I'm living in hiding on Tatootine.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[rudeboy1]

I second that motion. TIE Fighter was definitely one of the best games of all time. LucasArts really had a streak going there for a while where everything they touched turned to gold. TIE Fighter, Full Throttle, Monkey Island, Dark Forces... I remember Star Wars Rebellion moved me into a completely new genre of vidja games. Recently, I played the first Galactic Battlegrounds, and as soon as I got over the spiffy graphics, I realized the company doesn't have the same outstanding sparkle it used to.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[oliderid]

Well, I was 8 when I first watched A New hope. I loved it. I watched it again few months ago...And Frankly I found the scenario a bit too simple. But my nephew simply loved it...So the real show for me was watching him :-).

Don't you feel that we are simply getting older and the star wars franchise isn't for us anymore? Kids seem to enjoy it as much as we did (IMHO).

As a 30's, I prefer is Battlestar Galactica II. I prefer six over the princess anyday ;-)

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Orleron]

Mmm... Six. Did you see the episode where her girlfriend, Seven ate Nine?

Re:Save the Franchise?

[jellomizer]

I think they really missed the Han Solo type of character in the new stuff. Han Solo showed you can be kickass without the force. The new movies relegated everyone without the force to cannon fodder. While watching force power fights are fun they don't really make good story as they have a lot of power. But there isn't really anyone to relate to. the Jedi were too goody goody. The sith were mostly just evil. (Duko had a chance as a good vilan but they just gave him one movie (Which was horible) and killed in 5 minutes in the next) Han Solo was the good guy but had a dark side which made him more human and recognizable. The new movies didn't have that. They kinda tried with Jar Jar but he was too stupid and attempt to be a comic role (which R2D2 and C3PO took as well) we needed a serious character who was a normal guy who kicked ass.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Yeah, the midichlorians really threw the spirituality/mythology themes under the bus. Oddly enough, I saw the last 2/3 of episode 1 Phantom Menace just last night - I hadn't seen it since the theater when it first came out. I remember walking out of the theater thinking "well, that wasn't too bad", but last night all I could see was Mannequin Skywalker mugging through "oops, I accidentally blew up the android control satellite" as R2D2 comically whistles and squeaks, Natalie Portman's ridiculous accent, the preposterous locale for the big lightsaber duel, etc. etc. etc. It's one thing to suspend disbelief, but that movie suspends believability.

And then of course there's Jar Jar.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[noewun]

Me, too. This was the point at which I realized Lucas was making a product, not a film.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[jollyreaper]

I think they really missed the Han Solo type of character in the new stuff. Han Solo showed you can be kickass without the force. The new movies relegated everyone without the force to cannon fodder. While watching force power fights are fun they don't really make good story as they have a lot of power.

And now they have a Force Unleashed game coming out where they amp up the Force powers until it's like frickin' Dragonball Z. All that's missing is Vegeta screaming "HIS POWER LEVELS ARE 9000??!!!" Crazy-stupid boosting of character powers for drama's sake, it's like their script was something 13-year old boys were furiously masturbating over. All that remains is for Anakin to scream out "I AM THE BEST JEDI EVER! AND THAT IS TRUE ULTIMATE POWER!"

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Shakrai]

It's one thing to suspend disbelief, but that movie suspends believability

Yeah, cuz all the other Star Wars movies were much more believable ;)

I mean, what kind of self-respecting galactic overlord would have a throne room without a deep reactor pit of death in it?

Re:Save the Franchise?

[MagdJTK]

Don't forget Grim Fandango, possibly the most overlooked videogame gem ever.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Orleron]

"What know I of getting some? Quarter-inch penis I have." --Yoda

Re:Save the Franchise?

[TheRaven64]

After watching Episode III, I re-read the Timothy Zahn series. It really made me realise quite how bad Lucas' versions were. Zahn brings far more depth and texture to the universe in a single one of his books than Lucas did in all six films.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Random BedHead Ed]

Ewoks were cool, and Lucas hadnt sold out then.

Ah, obviously you haven't heard the back story of Return of the Jedi. No, I don't mean the bit where it was called Revenge of the Jedi. There's more.

I'll cite nothing because I have no idea where this information leaked from, and you can take it with a grain of salt because I heard it years ago. But apparently the original story for Jedi worked like this:

The forest moon isn't Endor, it's Kashyyyk. The furry friends aren't Eworks, they're Wookies. You can still see an echo of this in the final film, because the very word "Ewok" is an anagram for "Wookie" (with a couple letters dropped). No one knows why this happened, but it's a safe bet the Wookies would have been way cooler than the Ewoks were. Popular opinion has it that the merchandising for cute teddy bears was more attractive than that of Wookie action figures, but no one knows for sure. Perhaps Lucas felt burned by the negative reaction to the Wookies in the 1978 Christmas Special.

Anyway, the idea was that Kashyyyk was a slave planet. That the Empire had enslaved the Wookies was a preexisting concept, and it explainined why Chewbacca so hated the idea of wearing handcuffs in A New Hope: he was a former slave, and Han had rescued him years ago. The story of Jedi was originally to have involved the Wookie uprising. Instead we got Ewok booby traps. Also, Vader doesn't take Luke to the new Death Star. Instead, he takes him to the capital planet of the Empire, and it's there that Luke encounters the Emperor. The setting wasn't named "Coruscant" back then (that's Timothy Zahn's name for it) but Ralph McQuarrie concept art from the 1980s still exists for it.

Later versions differed from the final story in key ways as well. For example, Michael Pennington's character Moff Jerrjerod (the dude who meets Vader in the docking bay at the start of Jedi) originally had a more expanded role. At the film's climax, he realizes that the Emperor is dead and that the Rebellion is about to destroy the new Death Star, so he decides to aim the primary weapon at Endor. The idea is to generate an explosion that will destroy the entire Rebellion in one swift stroke (not to mention the Death Star and much of the Imperial fleet, but he decides that's a small price under the circumstances). This adds significant tension and makes the Rebellion's last-minute destruction of the Death Star that much more urgent.

Of course, the last story element to drastically change was the loss of the Millennium Falcon. Originally Lando does not manage to escape with the Falcon (why did you think Han and Chewie weren't on it?), making Han's last moment with his favorite ship the scene in the docking bay where Lando promises to return it without a scratch. Remember how Han comments to Leia that he feels like he'll never see it again? Originally he didn't. Lando redeems himself for turning Han over to Vader by sacrificing himself to save the Rebellion. Han loses the Falcon, but in a way this is good for his character's development because it means he finally gives up his old ways and lands the princess.

Rumor has it that they filmed Lando's death but it bothered test audiences (who do they get for these idiot test audiences, anyway?) so Lucas and director Richard Marquand decided to change it.

While I like Jedi, I've always believed that something fundamental snapped between the glorious Empire Strikes Back and the final film. Lucas lost track of what was good about the universe and the characters, and it only got worse from there.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Lord Apathy]

I've read there is even more to the story than that. My rumors are very old so their sources are long gone but I'm sure some fan boys out there will correct my errors for us.

I read that in the following movies, well call them 7, 8, and 9, for lack of a better name, Luke was supposed to turn to the dark side. He was really supposed to take the Emperors place, or something like that. When I watch Return and Empire with that in mind I think I see the foreshadowing of how that happens.

In Empire Luke leaves with out his training being complete so that makes him venerable to the dark sides influence. And of course in Return he is dressed in black.

But the thing that sold the deal to me was in the Emperors throne room where the Emperor told him to pick up his sabre and strike. And that is exactly what he did. To me it doesn't matter that he didn't finish the strike be for Vader blocked it. But for all intent and purpose he intended to kill the Emperor right there. For me that was when Luke went over.

Now I'm sure this has all been explained away in some book that I haven't read. I would love to know how it was.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[robertjw]

I never liked Jar-Jar much, but I agree, that wasn't all that was wrong with the movie.

He is at about the same level of annoyance that the Ewoks were in Jedi, the difference is the rest of the movie. Jedi was a GREAT story, and even if the acting and some of the dialog was a little shaky. Episodes I, II and III all suffered from poor writing. The story just wasn't there. It made annoying characters like Jar-Jar just stand out all the more.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Random BedHead Ed]

I'd put it another, sadder way: the first two movies were "broken" from what Lucas really wanted, and it wasn't until Jedi and the prequels that he started to exercise greater control. Or rather, what you like best about A New Hope and Empire is not what Lucas was really shooting for: these were all meant to be kid's movies, and that the first couple attracted adults and sci-fi lovers was a profitable accident.

The more control Lucas has over the story and filming, the worse the film ends up. Go see Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and then read one of the leaked copies of Indiana Jones and the City of the Gods on the Internet. The latter is a professionally written screenplay by someone who loves the characters, the former is Lucas's "corrected" version. We need to stop having high expectations of the man.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[dogmatixpsych]

You hit the nail on the head. The writing/scripting in the newer Star Wars movies wasn't that great. Actually, it was mainly just the dialogue that was poorly-written. I think the stories were there for the most part though, we just had poor dialogue to listen to.

Lucas is a master at coming up with stories, he just isn't great at actually writing them. He's given us Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Willow. He is also good visually; all the Star Wars movies look fantastic visually and have awesome special effects. He just needs to let other people write and direct and only be involved at a creative level (artistic direction, overarching story, visual effects, etc.).

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Lord Apathy]

I have to admit when Greedo shot first that bug didn't crawl up my ass anywhere near as far as adding the scream in Empire. When Greedo shot first that just made Han somewhat less a scoundrel but didn't completely change the meaning of that scene.

Well not as much as the scream did. Right there Luke had two choices, turn to the dark side or die. With the scream it makes Luke look like the choice was taken from him and he slipped. He could have been thinking of joining Vader.

With out the scream it re-enforces that Luke made a distinct decision to let go and die. and he never regretted that decision all the way down.

Adding the scream changed the entire meaning of that scene.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[SenseiLeNoir]

In the expanded universe, I think either Luke, or his children, turn over to the dark side, but return. I am not sure, as much of the expanded Star Wars universe was written by others.

Considering that Star Wars, is itself Fiction, you can always debate about it, but considering that it IS fiction, you are right and wrong. It doesn't matter.

However, the incident with Luke and the Lightsaber, it was never denied that Luke DID turn to the dark side at that point. He did intend to take the life of the Emperor, and did turn to the dark side. Its better described in the official book. However, he "came to his senses" and rescind the dark side later when he cast the lightsaber, and declared that he is a Jedi, and always will be a Jedi, just like his father before him. Especially he did it with a sense of realization and compassion. You have to remember, if he finished off Darth Vader at that point, he would have been the apprentice. HE had nothing to know that his friends had actually succeeded in Endor, and the end was near for the Galactic Empire. As far as he knew, all had failed, and the Empire was set to win. He had experienced some of the power of the dark side, and the promise it gave. Yet he declined it, and in the end was willing to sacrifice his life for it, Begging for help from his father, when the emperor used his dark force on him. It was that which also brought Anakin Skywalker back from the dark side to save his son. And why Anakin died as a Jedi, and not a Sith.

That makes a whole big difference. Just because a Jedi turns to the dark side doesn't not make him a Sith. He is a Sith for as long as he or she embraces the Dark side. The moment a sith rescinds the Dark Side in a real and genuine manner, he or she ceases to be a sith, and returns to the light of the Jedi. With Luke, he returned far quicker. Anakin took much longer, but the intent was still noble (he knew of his death, yet he destroyed the emperor and save his son, the son who refused the dark side)

Re:Save the Franchise?

[NFNNMIDATA]

Look, the original three had a lot of creative spark and energy in them, and a couple of good actors who stole the show, but most of all you were like 5 years old when they came out. To kids today the new movies are just as good. At the end of the day I have to agree with Lucas and say that these are really kids movies and we are simply nostalgic for them.

That argument is nonsensical. Everyone who saw Star Wars in 1977 was not 5 years old at the time. It got fairly damn good reviews. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Screenplay, Best Supporting Actor, and a ton of stuff in the technical area. Star Wars was considered Good. What kids today think about the latest boatload of tripe is not relevant.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[russotto]

You hit the nail on the head. The writing/scripting in the newer Star Wars movies wasn't that great. Actually, it was mainly just the dialogue that was poorly-written. I think the stories were there for the most part though, we just had poor dialogue to listen to.

The backstory -- Palpatine manipulating everyone and everyone, both as Senator and as Sith, so that no matter what happened, he won -- was great. But the main story, which, in II and III, should have been an equally great story about the corruption of Anakin Skywalker, was horrendous. Not just the dialog either; Anakin's fall was just not believable.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Rogerborg]

I think the franchise was lost among the faithful a long time ago. Somewhere between Mesaa and Jar-Jar Binks.

Uh, OK, if you like. I take it that you've never seen the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special?

Seriously, it's real. It's not an urban legend. Phantom Menace? Jedi Bratz? Nothing on Leia singing. Nothing on Itchy and Lumpy. That thing will eat your soul, then crap it back out on your face.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> Only the very first missions are actually flown in a no-shields TIE-Fighter.
> Later you get to fly TIEs with shields

Darth Vader: Admiral Pooet

Admiral Pooet: Yes, Lord Vader?

Vader: Whose bright idea was it to send out recruits in ships without proper shielding?

Admiral Pooet: It was mine, Lord Vader. They didn't deserve it because then it would be too easy to accomplish their missions.

Vader: And this lead to the loss of hundreds of thousands of these fighters?

Admiral Pooet: Yyyy...essss.

Vader: The Empire has vast resources, Admiral, but not infinite ones. Have you never heard the old saying that if you find yourself in a fair fight, you haven't done your homework?

(Pooet collapses)

Vader: Admiral Foopfoop?

Admiral Foopfoop: (visibly uncomfortable) Yes, Lord Vader?

Vader: Please send for Moff Krunktor. I wish to discuss with him sending out recruit stormtroopers with defective blasters that have a tough killing those little squeeky mouse/doggie robots in fewer than 8 hits.

Foopfoop: Yes, Lord Vader.

Vader: (To himself) Which reminds me, I have to go have a "chat" with the Sith Academy teacher on Korriban. I don't like these pathetic lightsabers the young Sith are using which can't seem to effortlessly cut through a metal sword or suit of armor, to say nothing of melting a huge hole in a reinforced door.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Sethus]

What really irked me was how Lucas and Lucasarts 'approved' all these expanded universe books and gave them their seal of approval. Then they turn around and just destroyed the whole expanded universe in the prequals and claimed the expanded universe was untrue. I know that makes me sound fanboy, (and I am) but I just have a harder time accepting the Prequals and Canon than the Expanded Universe.

I know that's pretty backwards, but those stories had so much more depth and better characters to them. I even went back to re-read the Timothy Zahn series just this year, and came to the same conclusion as you.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Fallingcow]

The worst part is that their own, official stories in the new movies fit less well with the universe created in the original trilogy than much of the Expanded Universe stuff does. Midiclorians? WTF? The stormtroopers are all clones of Boba Fett's dad? It's like really, really bad fan fiction.

I could name a half-dozen prolific SW writers who could have scripts for the prequels that would have been better than Lucas' in every way. Zahn, Stackpole, and even the much-maligned Kevin J. Anderson would have been good choices, for instance. All three have shown a talent for keeping the "feel" of the original trilogy in new works, and KJA even managed it with stories set way, way back in the past (the great Tales of the Jedi comics)

Even the ships they came up with for the new trilogy felt wrong, while the expanded universe people have created TONS of new ships, and only rarely have they had that problem. Some of them were even supposed to have been from the Clone Wars time period, and could have been "borrowed" by Lucas for the new movies (Victory-class Star Destroyers, Z-95 Headhunters, etc.)

Re:Save the Franchise?

[bar-agent]

Yeah, the midichlorians really threw the spirituality/mythology themes under the bus.

I kind of figured that midichlorians were an indicator of Force ability. Like how a magnetic field attracts iron particles, Force ability attracts midichlorians. But the Force can't be scanned, while midichlorians can.

Re:Save the Franchise?

[Fallingcow]

He personally edited practically the entire film, if not the entire film.

My understanding of it is that the first edit was a complete mess, and bombed at a couple of test screenings. A couple other people (one of whom being his wife, IIRC, or I may be thinking of something else) totally re-did the whole thing, including some famous creative editing (the looped Tusken Raider thing), often having to search through various takes to find one that had what they wanted, then take that shot right up to the word "cut".

There's an amazing SW fan documentary out there that covers all of this, WHILE showing the whole movie in the background, seamlessly splicing in behind-the-scenes shots, long-ish cut sections (including the entire Tosche Station scene) and interviews. It's THE best making-of documentary I've ever seen. Called "Deleted Magic". You can probably find it on some torrent sites. WELL worth a watch.

If in doubt, read this article!

[ShieldVV0lf]

I was QUITE surprised at the scheming behind the scenes when I read this article some time back. They *know* what they have and aren't holding back. It is interesting just how little they try to hide it and how no one really cares how much they are milking the franchise.

Some odd FORCE really drives the market. I have a collection with items dating as recent as 1981, valued between $5000 and $7500. The original prices for the items summed to no more than $670!

Re:If in doubt, read this article!

[radish]

Some odd FORCE really drives the market. I have a collection with items dating as recent as 1981, valued between $5000 and $7500. The original prices for the items summed to no more than $670!

Should have bought stock. Had you put that same $670 in a DJIA tracker back in '81 you'd have $8262 right now. Had you had amazing foresight and put it in Apple stock, you'd have almost $41,000!

Re:If in doubt, read this article!

[poot_rootbeer]

Had you had amazing foresight and put it in Apple stock, you'd have almost $41,000!

The amazing part wouldn't have been buying AAPL stock in 1981. The amazing part would be not selling it off during any of the low points of the following 25 years.

Does taking down reviews ever help?

[damburger]

They produced a crappy film once again. Now they are trying to sculpt the reaction to it on the Internet. Do they not realise it is futile? For a mainstream film, it *might* make a dent on the number of people who stay away - but for a very nerdy sci-fi franchise its practically suicide. I haven't even read any reviews yet but I am already drawing the conclusion its a dire film based on the fact they are attempting a cover up. The disconnect between the reality of online culture and the actions of people trying to sell things to the Internet using public seems to be growing, not shrinking as you would expect it to do with more young people entering the workforce with direct experience of the culture.

Re:Does taking down reviews ever help?

[Hatta]

Seems to me that if you're a reviewer, your reputation for independence is more important than early access to films. Who cares if you review a movie early, if that review is nothing but a mouthpiece for Lucasfilm marketing?

Every reviewer with integrity should publish what they want, when they want. If the entire industry bars them from reviewing films until they're open, then people will learn not to see films on opening day. I don't think the industry wants that.

Streisand

[Reality Master 201]

If Lucas really wants those bad reviews out there front and center, he's doing a bang up job of ensuring that.

Re:Streisand

[Reality Master 201]

If you strike down these reviews, they will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Embargo?

[Osurak]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Embargo?

[Faw]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inconceivable!!!

More For Kids, I Think.

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

I think this one is indeed more for kids. I know my Son (9 years old) is near ape-shit about going and seeing this opening day. I'm a bit skeptical about it. It'll be nice to see another new Star Wars film, but at the cost of no real story / character development / etc., I don't know if I want this to taint my view of the Star Wars saga.

I was only 5 or 6 the first time I saw A New Hope in the theater. Indeed, as many, I was blown away and it changed the way I pictured "space" and all that. That side comment to ObiWan from Luke of "You fought in the Clone Wars?!?" in "Ben's" hut was always a very interesting thing to me. "What were the Clone Wars?" "What are the Clones?" (it was never really said the Stormtroopers were all colones and certainly no hint of them being of Bobba's Dad). I wasn't until Ep2 that "The Clone Wars" was really brought into the story and it was very little more than a passing mention in that movie. Ep3 kind of touched a bit more on it, but not really. With this movie we're supposed to see more of the struggle of the Clone Wars. I say struggle because it more about the story behind the battle. The battle we've seen (well, bits and pieces), but we've seen it. We haven't seen the story of it.

I hope it's not as bad as this reviews are making it out to be. Since 1977 I have had huge thoughts and dreams about these half-mentioned "Clone Wars". I hope this is it.


But it is a "new" Lucas movie...

Re:More For Kids, I Think.

[nine-times]

I think this one is indeed more for kids.

I've never understood why this is considered a viable excuse for being terrible. "Oh, this movie sucks, but it's ok. It's intended for kids."??

Not to call you specifically out for this, but we wouldn't accept this excuse in other things. "Oh, it's ok that this baby food isn't nutritious at all. It's just for babies." That wouldn't really fly, would it? Or, "Our school system is terrible, but that's ok because it's just for kids."

I understand that kids might be more easily fooled into thinking that a movie is going to be great than adults. I also understand that, as a parent, you can't be on constant guard and fighting every one of these battles. But in my opinion, the fact that it's for kids means that it really should be *good*. And it's not as though it's an impossible feat to make a good movie that's kid-appropriate. Pixar, for example, has been doing it for years.

Most of the reason I'm making a point of saying this is that Lucas seems to be making horrible and stupid movies on the idea that it's appropriate to make dumb, meaningless, brain-dead movies because morons and kids will really enjoy the cheap humor. Part of the reason Ep 1 was so awful was because it was "for the kids", but if I had kids, I wouldn't particularly want them to be watching that sort of crap. I'd almost rather that kids were watching good movies that had a little sex and violence than shitty movies with absolutely no value. A lot of times, the adult themes go over the kids' heads anyway, and there's not much harm done. But if you expose them to movies with any kind of value, then some of that value might sink in.

Re:More For Kids, I Think.

[fwarren]

He took a perfectly good storyline and threw it in the trash

Ain't It Cool said something I have been saying for years. What the original Star Wars films had that made them work was Lucas' wife giving good input and reigning him in.

Now days there is no one who can tell George Lucas something is a bad idea. Midiclorians? Sure great! Yoda with a 6 pack jumping around like a frog in a blender. Cool, go for it Geroge.

Once upon a time he had a wife who could tell him no more blow jobs till he pulls that kind of crap out of his scripts. Now they are divorced and we are left to suffer.

So sad

[Tsoat]

I really enjoy the original star wars so naturally I was so excited when phantom menace came out I admit that I liked it almost as much as the originals then with the second one I watched it multiple times but only because I had a crush on Natalie Portman at the time. When the third one came out I waited in line for it however after watching it I had a realization about these prequels they were missing something, and that something was heart, when George Lucas mad the original Star Wars he was a nobody so of course he had to make the story epic, so epic that it was a saga. With the prequels he didn't need to so he soldout, hardcore he has betrayed the fans and all he cares about is the money which of course he will get because well there are still raving fans who would buy crap if it had the star wars logo on it and little kids. Bottom line is George Lucas is a sellout

well, i'm afraid

[Jarik C-Bol]

that star wars may have more or less jumped the mynock... the thing that really aggravates me about Lucas with star wars, is he allowed hundreds of "official" works of fiction to be written, wherein, the authors who wrote them worked very hard to follow and/or stay true to the original movies. These books really flushed out the story and universe, and then Lucas comes along with his prequels, and basically says "screw you all" and ignores all the history and back story that was created on his behalf.

What?

[Blice]

You say that Star Wars shouldn't be made into a cartoon for children? And you also say jar-jar binks was a bad idea for the series?

That doesn't make any sense. Okay look, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this review? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this review! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a slashdotter defending a major mistake in starwars history, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're sitting there in the move theater reviewing this movie, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed review, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

Re:First Amendment?

[Fieryphoenix]

No, not even the spirit. Two parties made a contract with each other, and one is insisting the contract is followed. That's just not a first amendment issue at all.

A long time ago... say around 2003

[denzacar]

...There were Clone Wars. Animated.
Directed by Genndy Tartakovsky of the Dexter's Laboratory and Samurai Jack fame.

And they were decently animated and had some good stories.
The Lucas empire even dropped a more than a decent part of the prequel trilogy's story into those episodes.
If you look at the duration of all three seasons you come up with about two films of about an hour+, or one of two hours+.
Hell... General Grievous is one big WTF if you don't at least take a glance at the animated series.

But I guess that was not good enough.
Or translated from Lucaspeek - It was not a bunch of lifeless 3D rendered puppets, reimagined once again.

What is the matter with Lucas?
Is he really trying to degrade the franchise beyond the "meh" level?
The entire Star Wars universe is slowly being turned into a "you know... that saga nobody really cares about any more, but once it was the best saga evah".

For fucks sake, lay it off for a while.
It is becoming embarrassing to say you actually enjoyed any of it. Ever.
Like it is American Pie or some other endlessly sequelled gag-humor movie.

Re:A long time ago... say around 2003

[kungfugleek]

General Grievous is one big WTF if you don't at least take a glance at the animated series.

Actually, I thought all of the prequels are one big WTF whether or not I had watched the animated series.

But then I read the Secret History of Star Wars and it all became clear -- Lucas never really liked Star Wars himself. At least, he never intended it to be the deep quasi-spiritual struggle of good and evil. He wanted a high adventure space-romp. It was Empire (which he didn't have much involvement with) that made things deeper and more spiritual. Compare Obi Wan's talk of the Force, "The Force is what gives a Jedi his powers." with Yoda's, "...for my ally is The Force, and a powerful ally it is." Obi-wan's line was written by Lucas and reveals is initial, shallow desire for the force to be a tool for magic tricks, Yoda's line, written by Brackett/Kasdan, shows where the franchise started to get deeper. It's the depth that really fascinated myself and I think a lot of us fans, but Lucas hated the idea and I think he still does.

Lucas has been trying to lighten it up ever since then, and is quoted as saying that one of the main reasons he made the prequels at all was to "fund other projects."

I think he doesn't care if he ruins it for us, as long as he can make money from it to fund the things he really cares about. It's sad but he has creator's rights over it so there's nothing you can do about it.

It's Warner Bros., not LucasArts

[Le Jimmeh]

At least, according to AintItCool's reply.

Except that it doesn't make sense

[SmallFurryCreature]

Lets not forget that episodes 1-3 were not exactly cheap to produce. If Lucas had sold out, he would have had the movies made in hong-kong on a shoe-string budget and then raked in the cash based on the brand alone. THAT is selling out.

What he did instead is forget what made the original movies such a success, not just with kids but with adults as well (it was my mom that introduced me to Star Wars and she was an adult mother when it was released) and instead attempted to make the movie appeal to kids without understand what kids want.

Basically, he ignored his matured fanbase and tried to appeal to a new demographic that just didn't exist.

Lets face it, kids today got better entertainment then 3 films that are nothing but a punch and judy show (KIDS: look out punch BEHIND you PUNCH: where KIDS: BEHIND YOU), the jedis never being able to spot the baddie until it is way to late.

It might have worked as high fantasy with a doomed ending with just a tiny bit of hope remaining but that doesn't work in a kiddy movie.

I like the ending of episode three were you see the would be rebels dispersing, but everything before was just... Well not bad exactly, just that the actors could not act, Lucas can't write or direct and just who was the story aimed at anyway?

The most obvious failure? Nobody quotes the new star wars to honor it. "These are not the droids you are looking for" "I am your father" "I find your lack of faith disturbing" "It is a trap".

Where are the episode 1-3 quotes?

George Lucas one had luck producing a movie, it is known by fans that this was not his own creation, his wife for instance seems to have played a large role. Other directors did ESB. He should go back to producing but frankly, his most crowning achievement, getting Star Wars made in the 70's is no longer anything complex with the fortune he has know and the standard high special effects movie we got know. People forgot just how ground breaking A New Hope was from a producers job. That is gone now. Lucas has nothing to do but sign the checks and so he gets involved with other things that were previously left to others.

Lucas did not make A New Hope, he produced it. He did make episode 1-3. That's the problem.

Re:Except that it doesn't make sense

[Lord Apathy]

He is right on about the quotes. I've seen all the "new" star wars movies at least twice and right now I can't think of a single memorable line from any of them. I can sit here and think of lines from the "old" ones all day.

The quotes are so memorable that you can use them in a business meeting, "I find your lack of faith disturbing", and get away with it.

Not the biggest movie and its STAR WARS

[Woundweavr]

The franchise was already lost. A new Star Wars movie is coming out to theaters and its not even close to being the #1 geek movie of the summer. Even if you took out the superhero movies and Star Trek, its still lagging behind. Ten years ago that would have been inconceivable as even re-releases were huge.

You can't live off past glory forever.

Perhaps George Lucas isn't George Lucas

[Jon Abbott]

I've almost convinced myself George Lucas never made the first three Star Wars, and that it was somebody else. Look at the reviews for almost any of the other films he wrote (THX-1138, Willow, Captain EO, Star Wars I-III) and they are all rated at least an order of magnitude worse. The only other film I could find that was rated as highly was Raiders of the Lost Ark, and he shared the writing role with Philip Kaufman on that one.

Missed the most important one quote

[jgtg32a]

Lets not forget that Has Solo made "I Know" and appropriate response to "I love you."

Re:Missed the most important one quote

[Abcd1234]

'course, that also wasn't Lucas' idea (surprise surprise)... you can thank Harrison Ford for ad-libbing that line in the movie.

Re:First Amendment?

[gilroy]

What is this "first amendment" of which you speak? No doubt some ancient and outmoded document that no one takes seriously anymore.....

The Constitution ... an elegant document for a more civilized age.

so sad

[jollyreaper]

I'm a total Star Wars nerd. Not quite a Star Wars dork -- that implies cosplaying at cons, themed weddings, and other acts of fan mortification. But I am a nerd. I grew up on these movies, I watched them over and over and know them inside and out. I would get excited every time I heard the 20th Century Fox fanfare and be disappointed when the movie wasn't Star Wars. I am 100% Lucas' prime demographic. I can obsess over the original trilogy like a Kevin Smith character, though I do differ with him on the matter of Hobbit badassery.

But I digress.

Lucas has managed to snuff my love affair with Star Wars. I saw Phantom Menace with great anticipation and came out inert. I torrented Clones and congratulated myself on saving the money. I only saw the last one in the theater because a gaggle of friends were going and I didn't want to be the wet blanket.

I watched the trailer for this one. Crappy, soulless CGI. How does it differ from the nuTrilogy? I think the characters here looked slightly more lifelike here. There is not a twinge of anticipation, not even a twitch. I'll rewatch the originals (not the re-releases) but even my enjoyment of what came before has been harmed now by what has come after. George Lucas has beat this dead horse until it's nothing more than a thin, red paste. Scrape what's left into a hole and fucking bury it, man. It's done.

Oh, he's always been Lucas...

[FreonTrip]

...but in the past, he had interference.

Note that most of those films were made after Star Wars made his reputation, that the first two Star Wars films were clearly either constrained by the studio or largely handed off to other people, and that despite its resounding success Return of the Jedi - the film over which Lucas had the most creative control - is widely regarded to be the worst of the first three films. His then-wife also apparently had quite a bit of creative input, if this interview with Mark Hamill is accurate.

TIE Fighter II

[tepples]

Personally I want an updated "Tie Fighter" game, that was probably their best sim.

But do you really want TIE Fighter II, TIE Fighter II' Champion Edition, TIE Fighter II Turbo: Hyper Fighting, Super TIE Fighter II: The New Challengers, Super TIE Fighter II Turbo, and Super TIE Fighter II Turbo HD Remix?

Re:TIE Fighter II

[FishWithAHammer]

Given how awesome TIE Fighter was? I'd take that.

Dear LucasArts

[snarfies]

The more you tighten your grip, LucasArts, the more reviewers will slip through your fingers.

I'll fix it

[kenp2002]

I can save it:

I'll craft Star Wars into a 22 season television series about the slow decay of the Jedi and the friction between the Sith Council and the the current Sith Lord Sidious.

Sidious on the outs with the Council is in a despirate position and a critical timing to regain control of the galaxy.

Mean while the Jedi have descended into a religious in-fighting on differing theories of the nature of the Force.

Qui Gon is leading the "Living Force" theory basing it in the Midchlorians. Yoda is leading the Universal Force theory (mirroring the differing views of physics, partical, quantum, string, etc..)

The Galactic Sentate is steeping in corruption and dealing with technological stagnation and the political fall out of ivolving the Sith in ending the last of the Mandalorian strong holds. (The Sith this time function as more of a mafia-like organization.)

We then slowly start moving through the movies starting with episode 1 but spend considerably more time focusing on the the infighting of the Jedi and the drama that comes about with admitting Annakin. (Seasons 1-3)

Ok now we are at Movie #2's content where we really start breaking down Anakin psychologically. Obi Wan is the presumed to lead the Living Force movement but is more concerned with the Jedi's pure function, protecting the Republic. Sidious is playing a dangerous game violating several of the Sith's tenants and is running the risk of losing the Sith agent's loyalty. Amadala is dealing with a considerable age gap with Annakin and is dangerously close to plunging the Sentate into a political mess. (Seasons 4-5)

Ok Third Movie content where the Jedi implode politically just in time to get slaughtered. We focus this season specifically on Annakin\Vader and the trouble the Emperor has gotten himself into. At the last moment the Emperor has grabbed victory and appeased the Sith Council for now... The Jedi are hunted and exterminated as Vader begins his reign.
(Season 6)

(Fast Forward 20 Years, yes we are aging the twins from original cannon)

Vader is a tormented soul but suprisingly the Emperor and Vader are in trouble contantly dealing with the reality of ruling the universe. Brokering deals with the Hutt, defending the Empire for invaders, and the rebellion. We paint an unapologetic yet sympathetic view of the Empire internals. Vader's confidant turns out to be Bobba Fett and the Emperor has to deal with growing threats of rebellion, knowing full well that failure will turn the Sith against him in full.

Mean while Luke and Leia's early life plays out in short clips while, once marginal characters (Ackabar, etc.) play out in how they become part of the rebellion.

(Season 7-10)

Ok Movie 4 content begins as a series of riots break out forcing the Emperor to implement the doctrine of fear as a despirate response to the growing rebellion. The clock has started and the only bargining chip he has is the Death Star.

Obi Wan gets word of the open rebellion and senses the time is right. Fate delivers Luke to him.

Mean while the Death Star plans are stolen and the story of their delivery to Leia unfolds.

(Season 11-13)

Ok Movie 5 Content remains straight forward from the movie but an additional focus of the Anti-Jedi propaganda starting to fall apart and the dangerous deals the Relbellion has to make to secure ships, supplies, etc.

Vader figures out whole Luke is and discretely tried to protect his son while playing a deadly game of cat and mouse with the Emperor, thinking Luke and himself can overthrow the Emperor and "Fix this, make things right" in his own twisted way.

Han begins to notice that Luke and Leia act a bit too much like one another, begins to see some similarities...

(Season 14 - 16)

Movie 6 now, with a slightly different take. We make the Ewoks just a tad more menacing and a little less cuddly and really focus now on Vader and the Emperor as advisaries. Luke and Leia playout but we add in the "cost of victory" for th

Re:Jabba the Hutt's Gay Uncle

[CuteSteveJobs]

No. It's true. http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/08/12/is-zero-the-hutt-the-first-gay-alien-in-star-wars-history/

Oh, I have no doubt

[DesScorp]

I know exactly what's driving Lucas on this. Cash. Period. Whatever motivations he may have once had for this story and this franchise, his sole concern now seems to be the bank account.

Supposedly the new movie was supposed to be televised first and then straight to DVD, and during preparation of the movie Lucas' people said he lit up and said something like "This is so good it needs to be in theaters!".

I think it was more like "Hey, I think we can squeeze another 90 to 100 million out of the suckers if we put this in theaters".

Re:Oh, I have no doubt

[indifferent children]

God forbid someone making money in this world.

It isn't "making money" that is the problem. There are acceptable ways to make money, and unacceptable ways. The intersection of art and money is touchy, and selling-out usually does hurt the art (though perhaps not in proportion to the feeling of betrayal expressed by fans). If your mother and sisters announced that they had become prostitutes, surely you wouldn't object to the fact that they were making money.

Re:Oh, I have no doubt

[prisoner-of-enigma]

I know exactly what's driving Lucas on this. Cash. Period. Whatever motivations he may have once had for this story and this franchise, his sole concern now seems to be the bank account.

I disagree. According to Forbes, George's personal fortune is immense. He's worth $3.5 billion, making him #61 on the list of the 400 Richest people in America. He could buy a new Ferrari every day for the rest of his life and still have billions left over. Ditto for yachts, mansions, and jets. What possible motivation would he have to try and amass more wealth? As Bill Gates once said, at some point, no matter how much you're able to pay for a hamburger, does it taste any better?

What's driving Lucas here is that he thinks his films are the highest art in the land. He truly thinks he can write good dialogue (he can't), touching love scenes (dear God, no), and witty humor (for a three-year-old, maybe). He puts out this execrable dreck because, in his mind, it's all the other films that are execrable dreck. His wealth allows him to live in his own world, and I'm quite sure all those around him -- who are dependent upon him for a paycheck -- nod respectfully and praise his work as that of a master even when they'd probably rather wipe their asses with it.

No, it's not greed that drives Lucas to destroy our cherished childhood memories of one of the most seminal films ever made. It's his pride. He simply refuses to believe he's as awful of a filmmaker as he really is, and stuff like Clone Wars is the result.

Re:Oh, I have no doubt

[Rakarra]

Supposedly the new movie was supposed to be televised first and then straight to DVD, and during preparation of the movie Lucas' people said he lit up and said something like "This is so good it needs to be in theaters!".

I don't know that Lucas is "only" in it for the money. The above is exactly what happened with Toy Story 2, yet the difference was that Lucas thought he had a good movie.. but he didn't. The more I look at his newer stuff, the more it's apparent that he simply doesn't have judgment with regards to the quality of his work. He has no one who can tell him "no, this sucks" anymore, and when you surround yourself with yes-men and that's all you ever hear, you begin to believe your own bullshit. While greed may be a big factor, I think a big part of it is just how out of touch Lucas is. He doesn't have the pure, forceful vision, and has no moderating influences.

Re:Oh, I have no doubt

[prisoner-of-enigma]

Maybe you're right. I still don't exclude cynical greed as a profit motive... to some people, enough is never enough...

Being a few billion short of a billionaire myself, I offer the following as speculation:

Wealth is a means to acquire luxury, but once you can afford a lifetime ofluxury, what good is more wealth? Once someone reaches a wealth level where (a) they need never work again in their lives unless they want to and (b) they can afford any luxury available in the entire world, I think it fundamentally alters their basis for wants. Dollars no longer matter -- literally -- so something else takes that place. For some it's status, for others it's power, or recognition, or revenge, or any of the other baser motivations for having the most, the biggest, or the best.

George loves making movies. That is not a crime, and it would be a good thing if either (a) he were any good at it or (b) he kept them to himself. Unfortunately neither (a) nor (b) apply, and that's why Star Wars has gone downhill -- and at increasing speed -- since Empire Strikes Back.

Now its all about the special effects

[jjm496]

When Lucas made the first 3 his people developed new cutting edge special effects, but because it was all so time consuming and difficult they had to be frugal in their use. The effects were there to support the elements of the story. The movies therefore had to bring their points across with real storylines and acting ability. Elements had to be left to the imagination.

Now, since CGI effects are a dime a dozen, he can throw them in everywhere he wants. Now the storyline and characters are just supporting elements for all the "cool" visual effects. He doesn't want anyone to imagine anymore, he wants to spoon feed you everything the way he sees it.

Maybe a braindead audience is easier to sell "made in taiwan" toys to?

Re:Force Unleashed

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> Bioware has been working on a KOTOR-era MMO for a few years. I was recently confirmed.

What does your religion have to do with it?

Oh, wait. Jedi. Nevermind.

Lucas' Money

[DesScorp]

God forbid someone making money in this world. Do you realize that Lucas paid for this movie and a full seasons worth of episodes right out of his own pocket? Shame on him for trying to make his money back. Oh and that Dark Knight movie, that is a huge cash grab...HUGE!

First, I have no problem whatsoever making money. I think that as long as its not your most important value, making money is a good thing. I'm a capitalist, and a staunch advocate of capitalism.

Second, he paid for it out his pocket. Ok. So what? That's an investment on what he's probably correct in asserting will be a larger return. It's business, and in Hollywood, self-financing your project isn't exactly unheard of. People do it all the time. This just means Lucas doesn't have a take a cut or pay a percentage to someone else.

Lastly, the problem isn't money, the problem is that he's pushing yet more crap in the guise of quality. The fault really isn't with Lucas. The fault is with us if we fall for it. Lucas is just doing his best P.T. Barnum here... there's a sucker born every minute, or in the case of Star Wars fans, several of them. Hey, Barnum was rich too. He didn't get that way by being stupid or by giving a sucker an even break.

Re:Lucas' Money

[jedidiah]

> Lastly, the problem isn't money, the problem is that he's pushing yet more crap in the guise of quality.

You people really need to get a grip and take a second look at
a) what he was ripping off to begin with
b) what happened when people tried to make "knock offs" of his stuff.

It's STAR WARS. It was never Shakesphere.

biggest problem I have...

[filthpickle]

The guy already had enough money for several lifetimes. He was in a position to make any movie he wanted with the prequels, he could have taken it anywhere, it was going to make money anyway...and he fucking cashed in, then he cashed in again.....then he cashed in AGAIN.

How much money is enough?

Fuck you Lucas.