Slashdot Mirror
China Blocks iTunes
eldavojohn writes "If you like iTunes and you are one of the billion people residing in China, you may have noticed that you no longer have access to the eight million songs on it. An album, 'Songs for Tibet' was downloaded more than 40 times by Olympic athletes as a sign of solidarity for Tibet's cause. Ironically, this compilation had songs criticizing the 'Great Firewall of China,' and that is the very thing that prohibited these songs from reaching the Chinese public. Artists on the compilation include Alanis Morissette, Garbage, Imogen Heap, Moby, Sting, Suzanne Vega, Underworld and others."
Additional coverage is available at Computerworld. Earlier this year, China blocked Youtube and other video services for similar reasons. More recently, the Chinese government detained a technologist who planned a pro-Tibet demonstration.
One day China's great firewall will block itself because it includes word "tibet" in it's blocking rules.
Blocking an album containing Alanis Morissette, Garbage, Moby and Sting is probably preventing human rights violations as much as it contributes to them. Isn't that ironic?
Shouldn't that be "China Blocks iTunes Store"? What is this, Internet News by Joe Sixpack?
"It seems like suspending iTunes is punishment for iTunes, but really it doesn't hurt iTunes, it hurts us," said a note on Chinese Apple fan site macfans.com.cn, according to the AP.
Do Chinese leaders actually think what they are doing punishes iTunes? Mayhaps, a more devious conclusion; like the applications to protest in the "authorized protest zone", they are trying to incite outrage among hidden dissidents to... strengthen their unpaid labor force.
Or maybe its just the technologically incompetent trying to rule the unruly propaganda machine that is technology with an iron (outdated; see steel) fist. Or both?
They have the power to kill free debate and discussion within their borders. That's true. They have the power to murder Tibetans and then tell the rest of the country that Tibetans are very happy to be part of China, on pain of imprisonment.
But as a free people, we have the right to point and them and call them cowards. That's about our freedom to call it like we see it. As long as there is freedom of speech anywhere in the world, then no one has the "right" to not have their evil discussed abroad.
Yes, you can access slashdot from China. In fact, I'm sitting at a computer in one of Shanghai's suburban neighborhoods. You're jumping to some pretty big conclusions there. A lot of the Western media covering Chinese affairs do nothing but criticize. I'm not saying they shouldn't criticize, but it really leaves Westerners with the impression that the Chinese government is so cruel and harsh that all the citizens are living in fear. Um, no. We really aren't that affected at all, and I can say (because yes, I have lived in the US and Australia) that life here is no different, except for the annoying fact that I can't access Freewebs.
No comment available.
Can you even access slashdot from within China?
I am not sure but a chinese guy in my team (I live in Australia) was browsing something which was obviously slashdot: same colors, layout, software etc but in chinese. I said to him hey thats slashdot and he said whats slashdot?.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
That will send a strong message to the chinese leaders, a country with over a billion people in a world of 6 billion people and a olympic event involving hundreds if not thousands of athletes and their support staff. 40 downloads.
Guess that shows just how much athletes really care about peace and such.
Did I download it? No, but then I don't try to pretend that my sporting event is anything else then an ego trip to prove I am better then everyone else.
Frankly, the truth is nobody really cares about Tibet. Oh we might buy the t-shirt but we also buy t-shirts with the logo of a soda brand or whatever band the music industry pushed on us.
Show me an athlete who refuses his medal to make a point and then I might think the olympics are any different from the soccer world championship.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
slashdot in spain
http://barrapunto.com/ I believe the title literally translates to "Slashdot"
.
I am also reading /. and I am in Beijing, there is now way they would ever block access to sl
So we should accept another country's right to censorship because that's the moral thing to do? How come that moral concept is universal, and the moral concept of human rights is not? I don't see how that position makes sense.
http://barrapunto.com/ I believe the title literally translates to "Slashdot"
And hey, if you Google translate barrapunto.com from Spanish to English, it's more better grammar, too!
http://translate.google.ca/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbarrapunto.com%2F&sl=es&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
[17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
Maybe, but China's history of human rights abuses speaks for itself.
If its history we're talking about, then what about America's history of human rights abuse (slave trade anyone?), or the UK (slaves again, plus that whole empire thing, and navvies).
In fact almost all western countries have just as bad a record as China, only for us a lot of it is in the past. for the US that past isn't too far back, we are in fact talking just decades since the 'not slaves any more honest' were fully accorded the rights they were promised by Lincoln.
Not that I don't like America, I do, its just that I don't hide from the truth of things.
So, check your history before declaring China to be the fount of all that is wrong in the world.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
Soo... I hate to say it (err, okay, that's a lie, i love pointing these out!), but china blocking a song protesting china blocking things isn't irony! It's just not!
Irony is (roughly) when something happens that is the opposite of what expected... but if you criticize a tyrant... you can expect to get censored!
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
Two things to note:
Number one, we don't ban bomb making instructions. Google "Anarchist's Cookbook". Get your facts straight before attempting to troll.
Number two, the ban on child pornography is not because the porn itself is obscene, it is because its production is harmful. See this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition#Majority_opinion
If you don't understand how this is different from China blocking all of iTMS because a handful of songs protested their takeover and violent suppression of a sovereign nation, by all means emigrate to China.
Please no comparing Tibet to Iraq here. One might recall that we're in the final stages of talks with Iraq to fully remove American troops over time (having already handed over control of the nation to the new government), where China refuses to recognize the existence of Tibet as a separate culture and violently suppresses any suggestion that they do. Go ahead and see what happens when you walk down the street in DC with a tape of Iraq war protest songs in a ghetto blaster. Hint: odd looks, but nothing else.
There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
*shrug* - the apartheid regime owes it's downfall partly due to economic sanctions by the western world. You can't achieve everything just by getting public opinion in the west on your side. But the western world is powerful, and public opinion is a powerful factor in the western world.
You are right that you don't have to be brave to protest for Tibet while living in the US, you just have to be willing to get of your butt. So what?
If China is taking moral cues from how Imperial powers acted in the 19th century and before then yes, we have a problem.
Interestingly, no one seems to know much about how the slave trade was ended, in large part due to the efforts of Britain after we decided to abolish it.
Seriously, I'm in China and iTunes Store is all fine for me. Get a life.
Gah, I hate getting roped into bickering on the Internet (which is different from arguing), but that just irritated me so much I have to respond before someone Godwins this thread.
"A country should be able to make decisions about what ideas it tolerates within its borders."
If you take the liberal constitutional approach, the one with all the founding fathers and such, no, absolutely not. If you take the ancient Athenian view, the one that killed Socrates, then yes, but only under a democratic government. Since the Chinese government is not democratically elected or accountable to "the people," you're conflating the "country" with the "people in power." That's okay, I guess, as long as you have some rationale for determining the legitimacy of the Chinese regime. Is that justification simply that the people in power have a right to speak for the country simply because they were able to pull themselves up to the top---e.g., might makes right? As far as I know that particular sophistry was debunked thousands of years ago (again, see Socrates). Is there some sort of divine authority that legitimizes the CCP's authority---doubtful, since they're atheistic. Capitalism has taken hold with a vengeance in China, so I guess Marxism's out the door. So what's the source of the Chinese government's "right" to do anything?
"There's no scientific proof that our way is the universal right!"
That might be because ethics does not pose any scientific questions. But maybe you're right; as long as there's one guy out there who doesn't agree with us, we should all abandon our principles for fear of offending his sensibilities.
Okay, that was horrible.
Nazis.
Nazis.
Nazis.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
The difference is not that the United States has made no mistakes- it's made some pretty awful ones. The difference is that when society feels that these mistakes need to be corrected, the government sooner or later has to respond, because citizens are free to voice their opinions and influence the debate. That happened with the abolition of slavery, and that happened again with the civil rights movement. Elements of the government did try to fight the civil rights movement, but ultimately Martin Luther King was not sent off to a labor camp for re-education. That meant he was able to keep speaking out to persuade our society and our government to try to do the right thing.
The West kicked the ass of the totalitarian regimes of Nazi Germany and Italy in WWII, and then watched communism crumble into the ground. Politically free, free market societies simply tend to do better in the long run than repressive, totalitarian societies. Or look at the Arab dictatorships of the Middle East: sure, a lot of them are wealthy, but they're basically all failures. In scientific terms they have produced nothing, in economic terms they produce nothing except oil, and in military terms, none of them could take on Israel in a fight.
Suppressing political discourse and reporting basically means that the government is no longer accountable for its failures. For instance, if a family protests the fact that a school collapsed in an earthquake and killed their daughter, and you arrest the family (which is the kind of shit the Chinese government is currently doing), well sure it helps the government maintain control. But it also means that the corrupt people who built the substandard schools go free and the problem doesn't get fixed. Perhaps you get stability, but in the long run the lack of government accountability means that the system lacks the ability to improve itself and adapt to changing conditions. Basically, you're saying that the ideas and opinions of 99% of your population aren't worth listening to. That's just a stupid way to run a society. And keep in mind that for all of China's impressive economic growth, the vast majority of the country is still dirt poor. They've managed to create a middle and upper class, but it remains to be seen whether the rest of the country can share in the gains.
I object to ALL human rights abuses. As it stands the subject of *this* conversation and *this* Olympics is China's human right's abuses.
I'm well versed in the human rights abuses of Western countries, thank you very much. I did have an open mind on China during the lead up to the Olympics, but as I learned more it's evident that China has a record of human rights abuses at least as bad as western countries.
Oppression is a trans-national phenomenon that must be challenged wherever it occurs.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Actually it makes perfect sense to me.
I'm English. I therefore don't have the right to carry a firearm. This would probably cause (possibly armed) riots in the streets over in the USA. Me? I'm perfectly happy not carrying one, and knowing that the people I see aren't going to be carrying one.
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.
I believe the grandparent was referring to how the human rights abuses are reported. For example, in the UK there was the 2005 incident where Jean Charles de Menezes was shot by police for running while looking a bit foreign. In the local press, this was covered as a serious abuse of police power by a small number of individuals and a total failure of the system. It could easily have been covered as a government-sponsored assassination of someone rumoured to have been criticising official policy. If you read the former, you might be concerned about the British police. If you read the latter, you would gain the impression that the UK is a totalitarian regime where the people live in fear of death squads (it isn't yet, but Tony did his best). Coverage of events in China by the western media tends to favour the second interpretation. Unfortunately, there isn't an unbiased source available, so it's very hard to find the truth. Talking to people who live in China you get a very different picture (although I know one Chinese girl whose father isn't allowed to visit her because the government won't allow him to leave the country with his brain full of military secrets).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
To be honest, I think you're missing the point totally. Not only is there absolutely no evidence that Jean Charles de Menezes was shot for criticising official policy, I'm not aware of any evidence of him criticising policy.
On the other hand, there is plenty of fairly solid evidence of bad things happening to people who criticise the Chinese government or its policies, and of deliberate attempts by the police to shut them up (usually, but not always, in the non-fatal sense). While it's unclear if these activities have official central government approval or are official policy, since they don't do anything to stop them they are complicit in said activities.
I was in China a couple of weeks ago to visit family and friends. I was in Nanjing and I used the internet to check on the availability of some site that I frequently use.
There are 3 kinds of sites in China in terms of availability. The first is the site with its server in China, these sites are usually fast and reliable. But sometimes you can find a foreign site that responds really fast, like slashdot did for me.
The second are the sites that are totally blocked. Apart from the obvious ones like FalunGong.com I only found sites with satellite images blocked 24/7, such as wikimapia. Google map's Chinese version doesn't have satellite images.
The last group of sites are somewhat in between the first and second. They are not available or unavailable 24/7 but you will loose connection to them at random or their connection will be very slow at times. Sites that go in this category are facebook, sourceforge, youtube, and many of the foreign sites.
Now, it's hard to tell if the government blocked sites in the last group because they work fine most of them time, but all of the sudden the site will slow to a crawl or not show up at all.
Now I know the ISP blocks sites that contain anti-government messages while you are browsing it, but when I looked at my last page before the connection slowed, there weren't any. So as a result most Chinese stick to Chinese forums to vent their frustration about the government or to get news on the newest embarrassing thing they did, because the sites are much faster for them.
Or look at the Arab dictatorships of the Middle East: sure, a lot of them are wealthy, but they're basically all failures. In scientific terms they have produced nothing, in economic terms they produce nothing except oil, and in military terms, none of them could take on Israel in a fight.
Let's not get excited and go overboard.
The region of Iraq was historically known as Mesopotamia (Greek: "between the rivers"). It was home to the world's first known civilization, the Sumerian culture, followed by the Akkadian, Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures, whose influence extended into neighboring regions as early as 5000 BC. These civilizations produced some of the earliest writing and some of the first sciences, mathematics, laws and philosophies of the world; hence its common epithet, the "Cradle of Civilization"
Also read a bit about the Islamic Golden Age beginning in the 8th century.
Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party.
1. WE are in control Muthafucker
2. 40 million dead and counting.
3. Don't make me re-educate you.
4. If 12 year olds are good enough for Mao, then they are good enough for the Gymnast team.
5. Pollution? What pollution?
6. One kid. It's the LAW.
7. Never too young for a job!
9. Never met a technology we couldn't steal.
A government so concerned about loosing face in the Olympics...
Precisely, it's not the government, but the officials are so concerned about that. Mao taught the people a lesson that they have to be "political correct" otherwise you will lose your head (most likely not only you but your family), that's 70's and has since become a culture. Today, you won't lose your head that easily (there's a lot of voices against the government in local blog and forum) but for the officials, there is nothing "wrong" to be "political correct", why risking my job in doing the otherwise?
If you think we live under a government that the people fear, that's probably how an extreme Chinese might think about the American too (under the fear of terrorism and the watch of the Big Brother). The fact is, no we are not, and we are probably the same. Both China and US, the general public are not affected, we still work, play, shop and watching porn unaffected. We both think the government is stupid. There might be a little difference how we voice out about our hate to the government, but other than that, I think there are no difference. (Ok, I'm a Hong Kong citizen currently living and working in Shanghai, closely interactive with my colleagues who are Chinese. I also regularly travel to US for working purpose and has been an Exchange student there.)
And, as always, the Chinese already figured out how to circumvent the particular iTunes problem, if you know how to read Chinese: http://www.macx.cn/a/a.mac?B=4000&ID=656667&Ar=656867&AUpflag=1&Ap=1&Aq=1
I second that. They are cowards - afraid to look in the mirror. Now some chinese person's going to reply to this and tell me about all the western hypocrisy, but unlike most westerners, they'll never turn their gaze upon themselves.
This behaviour reminds me of the type of person who is so self-absorbed that they don't know what a complete joke people think they are. All the while, they try to sell you on their big opinion of themselves.
The chinese actions would be hilarious, except that so much human suffering is involved. China is completely out of touch with itself.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
We really aren't that affected at all
Did you know there's a word for that? It's called apathy.
0x or or snor perron?!
That happened with the abolition of slavery, and that happened again with the civil rights movement. Elements of the government did try to fight the civil rights movement, but ultimately Martin Luther King was not sent off to a labor camp for re-education. That meant he was able to keep speaking out to persuade our society and our government to try to do the right thing.
I'm not sure if that exactly supports your point. Many people were beaten or hanged during slavery for resisting, and it took a "war between the states" to eventually force the lower half of the country to give up their practice of slavery.
Same thing with the civil rights movement -- many people were beaten or jailed for demanding that (gasp!) people were equal despite skin color, which most civilized people have come to accept.
"He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
So, check your history before declaring China to be the fount of all that is wrong in the world.
Complete strawman. The people who criticize China tend to be people who also criticize the US. They're not hypocrites for including China as a target.
It would pretty much make the chinese firewall moot.
Deleted
I am shocked - SHOCKED - that a repressive totalitarian regime would censor something criticizing it.
Oh wait. I'm not.
I'm shocked that people keep forgetting that China is ruled by a repressive totalitarian regime.
In response to your first point: the assumption that democratic societies do better in the long run than totalitarian societies is now being directly challenged by China's ascension. Past totalitarian societies tended to be autarkic and limited market freedom, and as such were very inefficient economically. China has taken a different route and as Naomi Klein (The Shock Syndrome) says, China is now the world's most successful capitalistic society. I live in Beijing half of every year and travel throughout China. When you see 60 and 70 year-old ladies with pickaxes cheerfully working on building roads, you begin to understand the strength that China has at their command. If you can unite the people and motivate them towards fulfilling common goals you have a strong hand. There is a pioneer spirit in China that has long been lacking in most Western societies. But make no mistake, the Chinese are not docile: there were 78,000 protests in the country last year. The government is sitting on a societal nuclear reactor: they need to allow just enough freedom that people remain motivated, without allowing enough for people to feel emboldened to demand more than can be provided. There is a very conscientious direction using "carrot and stick" control rods to keep the reaction moderated without going critical... To compare China with the Middle East economically is way off base. IMO the ME produces nothing except oil because it can do so and remain viable, but China produces just about everything. According to Kevin Philips (in so many words), empires have historically tended to become fragile and crumble when the states controlling them turn from manufacturing and production of tangible goods to service and finance. By those lights, China is just in ascendancy. But wait: like Japan in the 80's I believe that the China's seeming strength masks critical structural problems. First, China is 100 years too late. Continued social stability in China is going to depend on people feeling that the government, for all its corruption and repression, is worth supporting because life is getting better for them. China's current growth is completely unsustainable in the long run with the current level of resource use. The Chinese leaders are between a rock and a hard place (aren't we all) choosing between quick gains using unsustainable means, and some sacrifice now and investment in R&D. So far they have pretty consistently chosen the former. Also, the demographics are not in their favor with the "success" of the one-child policy. Then there is the critical problem of corruption. Most people in the West see the CCP as a monolithic entity, without realizing that it maintains control through a complex tree of provincial governments and petty bureaucracies, many of which operate under the assumption that "the mountains are high and the emperor is far away", and are totally corrupt. The Party has stated that eliminating corruption is essential to its long-term survival. No easy task. Economically, too, there are storm clouds gathering. Already global capital is moving to Vietnam and other places where labor is even cheaper than in China; and the RMB is rising, making exports more expensive. Factories are closing everywhere and the government is talking about supporting the stock market. Make no mistake, China is presently strong and will remain strong for a long time to come, but the "good times" may well be coming to an end
No. It would not.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Thing is, the Chinese people don't see it the same way as you and I, because this is how it's been for years. Boil a frog slowly...
Free speech is a delicate battle in the rest of the world, because it gets in the way of government power mongers. In China, they've had power mongers forever, so the concept of free speech does not exist at all - it gets squashed anytime it pops up, "to protect society".
It's a whole different world over there, one that's very difficult for us to completely understand.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
The rate of gun crime in England didn't exactly go down when the legal guns were taken away.
What are you talking about? Civilians never had the right to go around carrying guns (the police don't either, excep for select groups), so from which orifice are you pulling your statistics?
As for criminals, they will be criminals and the rest of society has no control over them. The whole point of being a criminal is to set yourself aside (outcast yourself, if you will) from the common aspirations of the community.
Makes you think why someone hasn't made that album yet. Guantanamo Bay deserves a better artistic critique than Harlold and Kumar are able to provide.
Bill Clinton pushed for Chinese admission into the WTO as a means of liberalizing China through open international trade. The US has already accused China of illegally hindering its importation of US movies and music (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/12/business/fi-wto12). Completely banning the iTunes Store (the largest online music retailer, which is US-based) further these charges.
King was murdered.
I think it's a habit of all dying regimes, dying nations and failing groups to engage in surrogate activities.
Americans aren't unique. They're just at the head of this trend in the West. The UK and Canada follow, and after that, mainland Europe.
It's a path to decay you can find outlined here:
The Republic
But it's far easier for people to go into denial, as you can see when a thread whose content is "They are cowards - afraid to look in the mirror. Now some chinese person's going to reply to this and tell me about all the western hypocrisy, but unlike most westerners, they'll never turn their gaze upon themselves." modded up above any more realistic commentary.
Why? It's easier to blame the Chinese than look at our own problems and realize we in the West should clean house first.
Anti-Globalism, Traditionalism, and FreeBSD.
Laughable and sad, really.
Annual firearm homicides per 100,000 population:
England and Wales: 0.12
United States: 2.97
I know where I feel safer.