Amazon Rolls Out Release-Day Game Delivery

1Up reports that Amazon has launched a new service for getting certain games into the hands of customers on release day, rather than simply shipping the games on release day. According to the press release, the service will be free for Amazon Prime customers, and available to everyone else for a $5.98 charge on upcoming titles Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Fable 2 and Gears of War 2. They tested the program recently with the release of Soul Calibur IV.

Comments

Hmm?

[MeanderingMind]

Isn't there always someone who brags about getting their Amazon ordered copy of a game before the release date, or has that become a thing of the past?

Re:Hmm?

[ivan256]

It happens sometimes. I've had them blow the 2-day delivery and gotten games from them a week late too though.

Re:Hmm?

[megamerican]

I'm not sure about games being delivered before the release date, but they've done this for books.

My copy of Ron Paul's book, The Revolution - A Manifesto actually came a few days early.

Amazon has done Release-day book delivery Harry Potter books. I don't know if this is standard procedure for books because I pre-order so few.

Re:Hmm?

[gad_zuki!]

It should be. Why are we wasting packaging and transportation on digital files? How about they sell me digital delivery instead of more extra fees for "SUPER FAST SHIPPING!!!"

Its incredible how behind the times the game industry is in digital delivery.

Re:Hmm?

[LandoCalrizzian]

I couldn't agree more. It's like the game industry is full of hot air when it comes to digital delivery. If only someone could charge full STEAM ahead with solving this problem.

Re:Hmm?

[daeg]

As long as they allow complete backups AND can install patches from the original developers, sure. This whole system of digital downloads requiring separate patches, limited backup abilities, etc is ridiculous. Look at the fate of the failed music services turning off their key servers... it's only a matter of time before that happens to a game service, too.

Re:Hmm?

[hedwards]

Quite so, I'm willing to spend some cash on physical media because I can install it whenever I need to do so, whether or not my internet connection is available.

Any game which requires a phone home doesn't get purchased, or if slipped in discretely gets returned. Any publisher I catch pulling that sort of bull, isn't going to be selling me any more games.

I personally like the idea of downloads, but in most cases I'd rather have the physical media for when I reinstall. All that limit 3 installations stuff is bull. Limiting the concurrent installs is understandable, but it's way too easy to be left without the purchased item when it's a total install cap.

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out TotalGaming.net, I think they are reworking it to be Impulse-something-or-other, but it's a good site and their tool allows backups. So far as I know, there isn't much in the way of activating, they also carry all the Stardock guys' games, which is nice, those guys have no copy protection cause they know it's lame to punish their paying users.

Re:Hmm?

[tepples]

Any game which requires a phone home doesn't get purchased

I take it you don't play a lot of multiplayer PC games. Multiplayer games over the Internet need to phone home to run the server that makes the game world persist, or for matchmaking even in non-massive games.

Re:Hmm?

[ozphx]

I guess you haven't heard of Steam, Valve's digital distribution mechanism.

Before the Team Fortress 2 release I clicked pre-load, downloading the entire game. Then when I paid (which happened to be a couple of days after release - I was busy) - I got immediatish (decryption time of a couple of minutes) access.

You could have tried this yourself - last weekend was a "Free Weekend", the benefit of digital delivery (and yes, DRM), is that they can yank your game back off you after the weekend is over ;)

Re:Hmm?

[AngryBacon]

Valve has said that if they turn off their servers that they will release a patch disabling the DRM first. Steam also has a backup feature.

Re:Hmm?

[Kalriath]

Impulse carries all of Stardock's games because it is MADE by Stardock.

They're also getting all of Gas Powered's future games too, which is cool.

Re:Hmm?

[Kalriath]

Or they could yank it back off you because they don't want you having it, like you "violated the EULA" by ... dare I say it, buying the game from another territory because your territory is 75x more expensive.

Steam sucks. Period.

Re:Hmm?

[mxs]

Steam ? A SOLUTION ?

I get much better service from BitTorrent.com. So long as that is true, the game industry has failed.

Re:Hmm?

[ozphx]

Thats when you yank the money back off them with your credit-cards fraud protection.

Theres nothing stopping any other multiplayer game from blacklisting your UID, no matter how its delivered. Valve tends to block your account from "secure" servers if you install cheats - they only remove a game if your payment is declined.

If the game has a single player component then you can happily warez it if you care that much, and play on LAN servers (or whatever is allowed without your key).

TBH I suggest it leads to higher license compliance, which means more money for Valve, cheaper games and a better product for me. For my one-time purchase of about half the cost of a standard game theres been three significant content updates and a steady stream of patches. TF2 has been the most frictionless gaming experience I've had (except when those bastards nerfed the Pyro *sad*).

Re:Hmm?

[EsbenMoseHansen]

Some do manage it. Last game I bought this way was Savage 2 --- awsome game, runs on linux, and with the dollar so low, quite cheap :)

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

I don't see how your statement is true except for:
a) your solution is free
b) uhm...nothing

- Steam lets you buy a game from anywhere, anytime.
- Purchases are instant.
- Games are installed automatically just by downloading.
- Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time.
- Steam is usually cheaper than buying in a store.
- Steam keeps your games up-to-date automatically.

I agree that it's not perfect as it gives away control over some things. But it's not like it's all evil as some make it out to be.

Re:Hmm?

[mxs]

So you drank the cool-aid, eh ?

Yes, my solution is "free". But that is not my point. I'm happy to pay for games I play -- in fact, I do. I have not touched Half Life 2 with a ten foot pole, however. I'm sure it's a nice game, but no, I will not bend over and get steamed for it.

"Steam lets you buy a game from anyhwere, anytime"

Reasonably true. Anywhere with an Internet connection, anyway.

"Purchases are instant."

Reasonably true. Once I download it using their extremely crappy download system. More on that in a second.

"Games are installed automatically just by downloading."

Yupp. Not a hard thing to do either. Steam does more, though.

"Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time."

Bullshit. Big whonking bullshit. Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time -- IF you have an internet connection active at the moment or "logged in" and selected that you will want to play "offline" in a bit. On single player games. SINGLE PLAYER GAMES. Not online games.
I'm not prepared to "log on" just to play a single player game -- or indeed the single player campaign, for various reasons -- the chief one amongst which is that I am not connected to the net everywhere I go, and I see no reason WHATSOEVER to let Valve know when I consume my gaming fix. They have no reason to know.

Furthermore, if your account gets suspended for any reason /IN ANY GAME/, all the games you bought and paid for stop working. Fuck that. Seriously, fuck it. Even /IF/ you could assume that Valve does not make mistakes and that all bans and suspensions are just (and no, you can't assume that -- they're not gods, and they certainly don't care enough to make sure that every ban is reasonable), even then there is absolutely no reason to disable access to any single player game you legally bought. No way am I gonna sign up for something where you "buy" games, but not really -- your "bought" games can be revoked at any time for any reason, and you have no recourse. Fuck it, fuck them, and fuck people like them.

"Steam is usually cheaper than buying in a store."

Usually ? It damn well better be cheaper every time. The costs are a lot lower -- no manual printed, no DVD pressed, no box made, no shipping costs paid, no retail markup from going through that sales chain.

"Steam keeps your games up-to-date automatically."

Big whoop. This is not hard to do even without the "Steam" framework. And maybe, just maybe, I don't WANT to have the latest version, all the time. Not all updates are good updates. Some change gameplay to something you do not like at all, some introduce bugs that affect you adversely, etc.
I very much like the control offered by being able to select whether or not I want to update a game.

You agree it's not perfect. Great. So do I. You give away control over some things. Yepp. Well, all things, really. Without recourse. No way in hell am I gonna buy into that.

Now let's see why I don't like Steam.

a.) Technical incompetence. I have not kept up to date with their system, since I quite honestly could care less after the burns they already delivered -- but if your platform cannot handle proxy servers, or indeed offer proxy servers, your platform sucks. If I organize a lan party for 2000 people, I would really want to offer a proxy for game updates and game data. Encrypted, sure, but proxied. I don't want 2000 people downloading the 200mb update for game X that just got released a day before the party starts through one measly 10mbit/s connection (or even 50mbit/s). I want them to hit the local proxy servers for that data.
(I also don't want them to fucking PRE-load something that is not released yet, such as Half Life 2 -- 2 gigs of data. Every Counter Strike player starts downloading that. Riiiiiight.)
Now, you would think that they might have thought about scenarios like that, since their games are WILDLY popular at lan parties (as well as online). But no. You call them, you w

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow that was quite the rant, and a little hypocritical. You said you can get your games from BT at anytime, That also requires an internet connection... So half your points FLY out the window.

Next the suspension thing is a complete exaggeration. The only accounts that get shutdown are ones using stolen credit cards. You dont lose access to ANY game by cheating etc. You may lose online privileges (and rightfully so) but they dont kill your account.

Next you claim not to pirate games, but then what are you doing on BT getting games on release day? (dont give me bullshit about freeware games, you contradicted yourself plain and simple)

The only time I had to deal with valve (Bioshock wouldn't activate on 2nd install... wasn't happy with activation, i hated that) I had a response within 30mins, and it was fixed. Valve themselves said the activation was not their choice, so you can't blame them for the feature, but kudos for the fast response time.

My point here is that it is not 5 years ago... Steam is not new, its not the evil program we all feared it would be before its release. There have been kinks, but at the same time its turned out to be a great platform. Look at all the companies signing on. I was angry when valve implemented steam at the start. I liked how it worked before, but steam was never as bad as everyone thought. Actually most legit HL/HL2 owners accepted it within months after the kinks got worked out. It was pirates that were so upset because now a key was tied to an account and couldn't be shared so easily. I can agree with a lot of complaints about requiring a connection to play offline, but your rant comes off as an angry, contradicting pirate. Dont want to pay for a game? dont bitch about how its distributed!

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the whole "play from anywhere" feature is great! As long as you have an internet connection you can play all your games via download. How can you be against that?no more lugging DVD's around when you head back home. You know that you can loggin and load all the games you bought on steam. Honestly who doesn't have internet now a days? If its down and you weren't logged in for offline play, then go do something else, its a big world! Besides if you didn't burn the game you were using on a virtual dvd drive, then youd have to download it again, and that requires an internet connection.

And auto updates work fine. I often get them within minutes of the relase, at 800-1000k/s, which is FAR better than before steam when everyone would rush the few sites that had the patch (like fileplanet where the queue was thousands long) only to get 20k/s. Anti-steam fanboys really dont have much to bitch about anymore! online activation is annoying, but like you see on the website, its a requirement that the 3rd parties demand.

Re:Hmm?

[somersault]

Actually if you read it properly he was talking about downloading updates, not full games. Sounds like he does pay for it. And he gave plenty of good reasons that he doesn't think Steam is very well implemented wrt LAN games etc. I thought he would just be another pirate until he went off like that :p

The account banning thing did strike me as over the top too, but the rest is sensible enough.

I generally like Steam too now. The only reason I didn't like it a few years ago was that I was on dial-up or just had no connection at all, depending on where I was staying at the time. These days with always on connections it isn't so much of a big deal, but any system that requires online registration to be able to play a single player game is pretty retarded. Consider that situation where Yahoo closed down their online music store recently and people could no longer play their music because there was no server to authenticate with - in that type of situation you have to crack DRM software just to be able to use your legally bought product.

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

He said

Steam ? A SOLUTION ? I get much better service from BitTorrent.com. So long as that is true, the game industry has failed.

in his first post. Implying that BT was a souce in place of STEAM. Not trying to knit pick, but he was implying from the start that because of steam he was pirating games from BT.

Re:Hmm?

[somersault]

Logically it does imply that he is using BitTorrent as an alternative, but not that he is pirating because of Steam. He is saying that he uses BitTorrent despite Steam, because it is still not good enough. He gave a few reasonable examples of what he thinks are the problems with Steam and other DRMed systems, and how he has gotten around them. It has been shown again and again that DRM just gets in normal users' way, but isn't much of a challenge from the crackers.

I myself much prefer to use NOCD type cracks on my legally bought games - then I can just take my laptop somewhere and play a game without having to actually bring along the CD or pile of CDs. This is especially relevant for laptops because some laptop drives like the one in my MBP can apparently scratch disks if you tilt them while in use. Requiring everyone to use the CD while playing a game is pretty much exactly like saying nobody should be allowed to rip their CDs to MP3 and carry them around in a media player. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do that?

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

Lots of text, but seriously: The only thing I can understand is the part about the LAN party.

"Steam lets you buy a game from anyhwere, anytime"
Reasonably true. Anywhere with an Internet connection, anyway.

So you don't need an Internet connection for BitTorrent?

"Purchases are instant."
Reasonably true. Once I download it using their extremely crappy download system.

So you don't need to download it with BitTorrent? Downloading from other users in P2P is faster than the Steam servers? I dobut it as I easily max out my 16MBit/s connection everytime I download something off of Steam.

"Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time."

Bullshit. Big whonking bullshit. Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time -- IF you have an internet connection active at the moment or "logged in" and selected that you will want to play "offline" in a bit. On single player games. SINGLE PLAYER GAMES. Not online games.
I'm not prepared to "log on" just to play a single player game -- or indeed the single player campaign, for various reasons -- the chief one amongst which is that I am not connected to the net everywhere I go, and I see no reason WHATSOEVER to let Valve know when I consume my gaming fix. They have no reason to know.

If you're not connected everywhere you go all you have to do is set up offline mode once. Yes, you have to be connected to the Internet to do that then again you have to be connected to the Internet to even get your game. It's an online distribution system after all.

If I buy Portal, HL2, and another multiplayer game, and for some reason their system detects something amiss with my account while doing the multiplayer thing, they will suspend my account -- removing access to the single player games as well -- let alone the multiplayer. No refund, either. Fuck that.

No, all that their cheat detection (VAC) will do is ban you from any VAC secured servers. Which granted is the big bunch of them out there, but what use is an omnipresent cheat detection if there is no way to enforce it? Also your single player game experience is completely untouched.

"Steam keeps your games up-to-date automatically."
Big whoop. This is not hard to do even without the "Steam" framework. And maybe, just maybe, I don't WANT to have the latest version, all the time. Not all updates are good updates. Some change gameplay to something you do not like at all, some introduce bugs that affect you adversely, etc.
I very much like the control offered by being able to select whether or not I want to update a game.

Then have fun playing online with your non-updated game.

Re:Hmm?

[mxs]

Hi,

Lots of text, but seriously: The only thing I can understand is the part about the LAN party.

Whether that is because you didn't want to understand it or because I was unclear, I don't know.

"Steam lets you buy a game from anyhwere, anytime"

Reasonably true. Anywhere with an Internet connection, anyway.

So you don't need an Internet connection for BitTorrent?

Naturally, you do. Of course, storebought items do not need this (but a storebought STEAM-Game such as Half Life 2 DOES require an internet connection to even install), and I do not need an internet connection on the machine I actually /install/ the game on when I get the game via a .torrent or other such means.

So you don't need to download it with BitTorrent? Downloading from other users in P2P is faster than the Steam servers? I dobut it as I easily max out my 16MBit/s connection everytime I download something off of Steam.

You missed the parts where I described, at length, what's "crappy" about their system. Oh, and yes, I have maxed my connection using BitTorrent -- but also other methods commonly used by pirates (such as direct downloads from sites like RapidShare -- note that I have no idea how fast the HL2 torrent is, I never did get that, and have no intention to ;)

Ostensibly, yes, BitTorrent could be way faster than Steam on /any/ connection -- that is if you are fetching the data for two computers behind the same adsl2+-connection, for instance. Local peer discovery works. :>

"Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time."

Bullshit. Big whonking bullshit. Steam lets you play your games on any computer at any time -- IF you have an internet connection active at the moment or "logged in" and selected that you will want to play "offline" in a bit. On single player games. SINGLE PLAYER GAMES. Not online games.
I'm not prepared to "log on" just to play a single player game -- or indeed the single player campaign, for various reasons -- the chief one amongst which is that I am not connected to the net everywhere I go, and I see no reason WHATSOEVER to let Valve know when I consume my gaming fix. They have no reason to know.

If you're not connected everywhere you go all you have to do is set up offline mode once. Yes, you have to be connected to the Internet to do that then again you have to be connected to the Internet to even get your game. It's an online distribution system after all.

A hurdle, I might say, pirated versions do not have. If I want to spontaneously play a singleplayer round of HL2 because my ISP is having trouble right now and I just got disconnected while playing, say, Counterstrike online, I can't do that. I can't just spontaneously go into "offline mode" when I'm offline. I have to go online to go into offline mode. That is a crock of shit. I'm reasonably sure you'll have to go into online mode again to play a bout of multiplayer action or get updates, and then you have to "remember" to go into offline mode.

There is no good reason for it. None at all. Don't give me any of that "But pirates could use it !"-crap -- it takes one "pirate" to crack your game and distribute it all others. That one pirate is not gonna be hindered by this measure. Only your regular, paying customers have to deal with it. Great plan.

No, all that their cheat detection (VAC) will do is ban you from any VAC secured servers. Which granted is the big bunch of them out there, but what use is an omnipresent cheat detection if there is no way to enforce it? Also your single player game experience is completely untouched.

Yes, I threw two different kind of bans into one pot there, you are right, maybe I should have been more clear.

Oh, and yes, if your account gets

Re:Hmm?

[harl]

You need to reread your Terms of Service. It's impossible to purchase a game via Steam.

You may subscribe to a game. A subscription which they can revoke at any time. That they can revoke for any or no reason.

The problem with imaginary property is that you only get imaginary ownership.

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

Oh great, the fucking comment system ate my post because one of my backspace strokes accidentally counted as "back".

So here's the short version: I understood what you were saying, but not what the huge problem with all of it really is.

You need Internet access for BitTorrent. You might not need it for actually installing the game but with Steam installing IS downloading. If you want to play it offline you still can, if you want to copy the Steam cache files you still can (to avoid the download) and you will need some minimal access to activate the game...which in this century shouldn't be much of a problem if one tries a little. Hell, I could probably do it through my cellphone without any bump in my bill.
Also there's a good deal of non-steam games which start to require activation despite not being published online. I know, you won't buy these either...but it's coming whether you like it or not.

If you can't do the activation because you live in deep Siberia and your only Internet connection is a donkey that comes by every other week then get a crack for all I care...at least you paid for the game.

[...] I have maxed my connection using BitTorrent -- but also other methods commonly used by pirates (such as direct downloads from sites like RapidShare -- note that I have no idea how fast the HL2 torrent is, I never did get that, and have no intention to ;)

That's not the point. The point was you claimed their distribution system was crappy. However the speed is nothing to complain about (of course P2P has the potential to be faster...it can also be much slower if the file is just available at a few nodes). Also I couldn't find the 'lengthy' other reasons why you find their actual download system so bad (except for the LAN party thing, which admittedly is retarded...then again how often do you see people grabbing 2GB at a LAN party, actual updates if they come out the day before are probably around 50MB...most of the time more like 10MB unless there's new content. Also if you really want the stuff faster: you can just copy the steam cache folder of someone who already downloaded everything).

The 'offline mode' might be a killer for you, I however don't really care for it since all relevant games I own on Steam are multiplayer anyway.

As for the 'horror scenario' of losing your games: I want to see Valve trying to shut me out as a user for some arbitrary and unjustified reason. They'd have to discuss that with my lawyer I suppose.

As for cheating: if you cheat in online games you deserve to be banned and not play that game again. I don't have sympathy for people crying over this. Your 'privacy implications' of Punkbuster and co are wildly exaggerated. Give me an example how VAC hurts your privacy when it's scanning your game files and game memory footprint for modifications? If that's a bad way then how would you do it? No cheat protection at all?
You do realize that this has nothing to do with Steam but is a problem in general?

I'm not talking about playing online in that case. Nice try though.

Well, if you don't want the latest version for your single player games you can turn automatic updates off on a game-by-game basis if you want. They're not enforced unless you want to play online and your version is incompatible with the server's.

Oh, and if Valve ever goes belly-up I'm sure there will be a fix from somewhere in the community to enable 'offline mode' one last time once and for all.

I can't convince you to use Steam and I don't want to and don't care to. But your original statement that Steam is nothing but a pile of crap and BitTorrent offers better service is just bullshit.

Re:Hmm?

[gad_zuki!]

Ah yes steam, which requires me to authenticate to play single-player non-online games. Or the steam I've had to reinstall a few times because of bugs. Or the steam that refuses to let me play TF2 because of some random error. Or the steam that bans whole accounts for any reason which means you just lost all your games.

We dont need a friggin DRM framework to download games. Give me the exact same installer youre putting on the CDs and call it a day.

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

The only part of the Steam TOS I could find ergarding this is Section
13.C.2:

"In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase."

While that sounds potentially nasty I know of noone who had problems with this. Also I want to see Valve enforcing this on their customers. Just because it is written in the TOS doesn't automatically make it legal.

However for the sake of the original argument that caused my reply I fail how you either buy or license a game using BitTorrent.

Re:Hmm?

[harl]

Assume any contract you sign will be enforced. If they didn't plan on enforcing it they wouldn't put it in a contract and they wouldn't have you sign it. Any other view is ignorant and will get you into trouble.

There's no reason the Steam TOS are not legal:

First once you click accept or agree you have entered into a legally binding contract. This has been decided in US Circuit Court. The case is ProCD v Zidenburg.

Additionally the contract meets none of the legal criteria for unfair contracts. The main reason for this is that it's completely voluntary.

I fail to see why you think enforcement would be difficult. Enforcement is trivial. They turn you off. Done.

Re:Hmm?

[brkello]

Problem is...you are wrong and you are entrenched in your wrongness. No matter what anyone says you are going to spin it your own way like a Republican at the Deomcratic convention.

The things download really fast from Steam...I generally get better performance from Steam than I do from Vuze.

Do you take your computer off the Internet all the time? I don't...so why are you complaining? Because you are an idiot.

Have you ever been banned? No? Then how do you know what they do?

The guy says usually and you jump on him for using that qualifier. What games are more expensive?

See, if they all had steam they all wouldn't have to download the update from your stupid proxy, would they? They would all have it auto-downloaded. But oh no, you can't use your hack to pwn n00bs from version 1.3.4.6. Boohoo.

I guess I can't even bother to read your whole post. You are a sad, bitter little person who just doesn't get it. Steam is a great platform. Everything has flaws and needs improving, but I would much rather companies come up with things like Steam than other DRM methods. When you shut yourself off to reasonable solutions, you just come off like a jackass.

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

Here in the EU it's not as simple. Not everything written in a contract (even if voluntarily and willfully signed by both parties) is legal. Unless the Steam TOS have been tried for exactly this case I'll withhold judgment.

For example: Some carriers here in Germany have a clause where they say they can just cancel your subscription if you've been using their service in a way that is impacting their service (i.e. excessive data traffic on an unlimited transfer package). Those have been tried and found to be not upholding before several courts. There has to be a _valid_ reason for them to enforce this, they can't just say "you've done something we just don't like, you're out".

Of course, trying the TOS means they have to shut someone off for a stupid reason first.

Re:Hmm?

[harl]

Seeing as how Valve and Steam are a USA corporation doing business in the USA. I fail to see how German or EU law is relevant.

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why shouldn't they be allowed to do that?

You're not obligated to do any such thing so long as you know how to get the machine to behave how you want it. It's your game and your computer, and if you can make it work without the CD, there's not a bloody thing the game maker can do about it.

NoCD cracks have nothing to do with Steam or stealing games. Try again.

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

You make a ridiculous amount of assumptions about the Steam platform. I don't feel like going into all of them, because I have more important things to do, but the last one was particularly obnoxious.

(I also don't want them to fucking PRE-load something that is not released yet, such as Half Life 2 -- 2 gigs of data. Every Counter Strike player starts downloading that. Riiiiiight.)

Well, every Counter-Strike:Source player started download HL2 because they required the Source engine to actually play the game. Counter-Strike is nothing more than a mod, remember? This 'preloading' of the game was not forced on anyone, other than those who wanted to play the mod. Furthermore, only about 60% of HL2 was required before CS:S could be played. That's because lots of the maps, sounds, and textures were not required for CS:S.

I've been a Steam user since it dawned upon us, I've never had any of the issues you describe. I've played in major competitive tournaments, have it installed on multiple machines. I've never cheated or downloaded cheats, never risked my account being banned, never exploited an illegal game download. I also don't bitch about the latest patch for a game - I like everyone in the community having the latest version, regardless of what they change. This way I don't have to worry about which version will be played at the next LAN tourny.

You just seem to be uninformed about how transparent Steam actually is. It's not iTunes, it doesn't try to take control of your system. It's never locked me out of content I've purchased (regardless of my network connection).

Re:Hmm?

[Ilgaz]

"Any game which requires a phone home doesn't get purchased, or if slipped in discretely gets returned."

I fail to understand the logic behind buying a software with your credit card which has all your details including your home address and not letting game/software to check for updates using your worthless (compared to CC) IP address.

Re:Hmm?

[Ilgaz]

They are the same company who invented "auto torrent generation", that makes me wonder more.

Any file at Amazon S3 can become torrent based if its vendor allows it. E.g. instead of www.s3aws.com/huge.exe , if you put www.s3aws.com/huge.exe?torrent , it comes you as torrent file and it starts tracking it.

(btw I forgot the s3 domain, it could be something else)

Re:Hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you about NoCD cracks. I use them on all single player games I buy. I just didn't like his whole point about pirating games because steam wasn't up to par. I think steam is an easy way for 0sec delivery. Everyone tries to justify pirating, but in reality they are making excuses for it. Im not going to sit here and say I never downloaded a game, but Im at a point now where I can, and like to support the companies that make games.

Re:Hmm?

[mxs]

Problem is...you are wrong and you are entrenched in your wrongness. No matter what anyone says you are going to spin it your own way like a Republican at the Deomcratic convention.

I could say the same about you, sorry to say.

The things download really fast from Steam...I generally get better performance from Steam than I do from Vuze.

I don't take issue with their downloads speeds. They are usually fast -- unless of course, you are at a LAN-party. I do take issue with its implementation and inflexibility -- which you gloss over here, nicely.

Do you take your computer off the Internet all the time? I don't...so why are you complaining? Because you are an idiot.

Nice, ad hominem. Good to know we departed from opinions about Steam to opinions about eachother.

Also, don't assume that just because /you/ have an always-on connection, everybody does. Large parts of the worlds still pay by the hour, many, many people have laptops they use to play games -- even when, or actually especially when, there is no WiFi near, etc, and, of course, the aforementioned case where your ISP has trouble.

There are good reasons to be able to want to use your game unencumbered in those cases. The idiocy, I'm afraid, is on your end.

Have you ever been banned? No? Then how do you know what they do?

Ah, so I have to buy into the service, use it, and be banned to have an opinion on a system where the procedures are known ? Where you /know/ that they can easily disable your account and all access to it from their end for any infraction they deem to be one, without a refund ? If you can show me that this is not the case, great. Forgive me if I don't blindly trust Valve to do the right thing, always.

And yes, I've been banned from an online game before. Unjustly, I might add -- and the ban did get reversed after a few weeks of haggling with customer "support" service.

The guy says usually and you jump on him for using that qualifier. What games are more expensive?

I didn't mean to jump at him, just at the notion that this is something which should be mentioned as special or a selling point.

See, if they all had steam they all wouldn't have to download the update from your stupid proxy, would they? They would all have it auto-downloaded. But oh no, you can't use your hack to pwn n00bs from version 1.3.4.6. Boohoo.

Again, you are coming off as the idiot here. I have no desire to cheat, in fact I did qualify my statement to not apply to online games. I would ASSUME that online servers wouldn't even let me connect with an old version, anyway. I don't care about cheating (in a multiplayer game, that's about as low as you can go). I do care about updates which wreck playability on my machine -- which you, also, HAVE heard of. Don't deny it. There are updates that make games unplayable on many setups. There are updates that fundamentally change gameplay. You should not /have/ to install those if you did not want to, in single-player games (or even local multiplayer).

Furthermore, my proxy-comment speaks to the flexibility of the system, and the foresight Valve has shown w.r.t. one of their core demographics -- players at LAN parties.

I guess I can't even bother to read your whole post.

Write "TLDR" then and be done with it. It would show your character even more clearly than attacking the person making the argument instead of attacking the argument does.

You are a sad, bitter little person who just doesn't get it.

Funny, that's pretty much the same thing I thought about you. Of course I wasn't sad, bitter, or little enough to say that.

Steam is a great platform. Everything has flaws and needs improving, but I would much rather companies come

Re:Hmm?

[mxs]

Oh great, the fucking comment system ate my post because one of my backspace strokes accidentally counted as "back".

Great commenters never use backspace or editing functions ... Spelling mistakes are an art ! :-P

Yeah, I dislike that particular keystroke-binding as well :->

So here's the short version: I understood what you were saying, but not what the huge problem with all of it really is.

Which is perfectly fine; I have different sensibilities when it comes to what I spend my money on or what happens on my computer, or how my data is used, or how a system /could/ be abused; the best shielding from such abuse is not trust in any one company, but rather to make sure that the abuse is simply impossible even given the worst possible intentions of that company.
I know that this is a bit of a gloomy outlook, but at least I get pleasantly surprised more often than negatively ;)

You need Internet access for BitTorrent. You might not need it for actually installing the game but with Steam installing IS downloading.

Really a technicality. You need access on the machine that the game is going to be played on, for Steam (and there is really not much of a difference between manually clicking setup.exe or steam doing the same stuff, automatically ;)

If you want to play it offline you still can,

If, and only if, you anticipate being offline at --point in time X+1--. I dislike that, if only for the very simple reason that it is an unnecessary encumberment -- one that I PAY to have.

if you want to copy the Steam cache files you still can (to avoid the download) and you will need some
minimal access to activate the game...

Yeah, at least that is possible. It's also the way lan parties have to operate (copying an entire steam install minus the keyfiles to an FTP, and hope that nobody makes a mistake and copies login info or keyfiles with it). This is trouble waiting to happen ;)

which in this century shouldn't be much of a problem if one tries a little.

No denying that. Now let's look at the competition the system has, on the less-than-legal side. Oh, yes, no access required there. Now let's look at the competition the system has, from boxed versions of a game. Oh, yes, no access required there (well, not true anymore for many games -- games which I return and get a refund for :)

Hell, I could probably do it through my cellphone without any bump in my bill.

Or with IP over avian carrier, with a nice meal at the end too !

But should you HAVE to ?

Also there's a good deal of non-steam games which start to require activation despite not being published online. I know, you won't buy these either...but it's coming whether you like it or not.

I have noticed that. There is no way in hell I am going to buy those games and keep them. In most cases, I can return them at the point where that becomes apparent (there are rather strong customer protection laws in most parts of Europe). If enough people do this (or make their reasons for not buying a particular game known -- believably), vendors will take notice. It's too bad most of them don't seem to have the foresight to see the eventual conclusion of this dance (the music industry is going through the motions as well -- in 3-5 years you'll be able to buy DRM-less music everywhere, and maybe even losslessly compressed.)

It may be coming, but it's not coming to my computer. And if I really, really wanted to play the game, I could just crack it. If cracking the game I legally bought is a requirement to get around those draconian (and thus proven entirely INEFFECTIVE) anti-"piracy" schemes, the question presents itself :

Re:Hmm?

[somersault]

I'm basically in the same situation. When I was a student I downloaded a few songs and readily ripped CDs that I had borrowed, but now that I have a job, I just buy everything from Amazon with 'free' next-day delivery. I still find it practical to have a physical copy of my music, though I wouldn't mind very much if all my games were downloads only (as long as the distribution network was fast enough)

Re:Hmm?

[somersault]

Sure, Steam only requires you to be connected to the net the first time you install, but it's still a pain in the ass if you have no access to a connection. The content is there, you've paid for it, but you can't play the game. Same if you're out and you don't have the game CD. The content is there, you've paid for it, but you can't use it because of DRM. So while Steam only requires you to validate once and then it is 'no CD' as long as you've set it up properly, they're still pointless DRM.

As for stealing, I wasn't talking about that at all, and neither was the GGP, so what is your point? He was talking about more convenient versions of games, and it doesn't sound like he pirates despite that (he only mentioned bittorrent for DRM-free updates, not original installations).

Re:Hmm?

[Loibisch]

This, however, is the same kind of thing I was talking about. Just in the United States.

Re:Hmm?

[Kalriath]

They also remove the game if you claim you're from a different region because you object to paying 300% of the US price for the same game.

Re:Hmm?

[ozphx]

You must be an EA (cod4) customer ;)

VISA chargeback ftw. Fraud (non-delivery of goods). Costs them $40ish.

Again, nothing stopping publishers from revoking the ability to play your multiplayer game if you use a key from a different region. (Didnt BF2142 do this?)

Steam adds downloads/updates/etc to existing control methods. You can still copy out game installs and burn/crack them if you are really paranoid about saving your single player experiance.

Re:Hmm?

[harl]

Not really the same kind of thing.

The example you mention is a contract in which you sign away your rights to the legal system. There is a trend in the USA for corporations to try and side step the legal process, generally fair, and steer people into arbitration, generally unfair, which almost always sides with the corporation. Coincidentally the corporations are the ones who pay the arbitration companies, but I digress.

To quote the summary, "which decided that AT&T's service agreement was not capable of waiving a customer's right to file a lawsuit against the company." That's not what we were talking about.

Clickwrap/shrinkwrap/EULA licenses are legal. Please see ProCD v Zidenberg or Blizzard v bnetd. Renting and subscription based software is legal. You don't own anything you rent from Steam.

Re:Hmm?

[harl]

I was pressed for time earlier and forgot a point I wanted to make.

Yes some things are illegal to put in a contract, the example you give. That doesn't mean anything in a contract is illegal. That logic would mean all contracts were illegal which we both know is not the case.

Signing away your right to sue is illegal. Agreeing that you are "renting" software rather than buying it is very legal. So don't do it.

Do you have a related example?

Re:Hmm?

[Kalriath]

Not quite, I just live in New Zealand where companies (like EA, yes) feel entitled to charge 300%-500% of the US price and where platforms like Steam kow-tow to this disgusting behaviour. Get this, an average PC game here retails at $110. An average console game retails at $120. Ridiculous? I think so.

Re:Hmm?

[ozphx]

Yeah I live in Australia and have to deal with the same crap. Its not really Steam's problem - if EA wants region locking bullshit then they get it.

Hopefully publishers will learn from the success of games without it, like TF2.

This is News?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wait, I forgot on Slashdot we like to advertise for companies. Also, this is something numerous other companies have been doing for years (EBGames for example) at no charge other than the shipping to get it to you.

Re:This is News?

[StingRay02]

This is also a tad old. Unless Amazon can get me Tiger Woods in the next nine hours, they're going to miss the release date.

Re:This is News?

[MBraynard]

Yeah, I was just thinking about that. I remember EB games shipping me the original Xbox on release day and the games also arrived on release day that I subsequently order.

On the other hand, who really MUST have a game on release day? Get a life, really.

Re:This is News?

[Ilgaz]

So Slashdot gets paid for comments about Amazon like

1) It is stupidly old fashioned, go buy downloadable games instead
2) There is no point to pay extra, have some patience
3) They will trace your home while that game checks for updates and send black helicopters.

So, Amazon paid for this you say?

I'll wait

[Rinisari]

$6 extra for a $50-$60 game? Forget that. I'll wait a day or two and enjoy a lunch out.

Re:I'll wait

[Anonymous Coward]

$6 extra for a $50-$60 game? Forget that. I'll wait a day or two and enjoy a lunch out.

Denny's... here I come!

Re:I'll wait

[VeNoM0619]

Agreed, hell most games I'm likely to wait a year or two before even bothering to buy. What do I miss out on? Bugs, patches, crashes, glitches, and if it's multiplayer:hacks (although that can be arguable depending on success of game)

Re:I'll wait

[Facegarden]

Well, you may feel that way, but i know all those people who camp out for hours to pick up a game might be interested in this.
-Taylor

Re:I'll wait

[Devout_IPUite]

No, those people camp and are home WAY before UPS comes around.

Re:I'll wait

[CottonThePirate]

Or troll down to your local best buy/target/etc and pick up a copy on release day. Gamestop-o sometimes holds games if you didn't pre-order, but other than Wii games that come with a plastic gadget I've never seen places not have plenty of discs in this day and age.

Re:I'll wait

[edcheevy]

Or you could sign up for the Amazon Prime trial, which is free.

Re:I'll wait

[rtechie]

This is highway robbery. $6 just to play the game 12-24 hours earlier? WTF? I hate GameStop with a passion, but even they offer a better deal. Plus, GameStop tends to have pre-order bonuses other retailers don't have.

Please don't get me wrong about Gamestop. I hate them. I've sued them twice. Their entire business model revolves around ripping off little kids.

Re:I'll wait

[CougMerrik]

Just go to your local game store.. it's right next to your lunch spot, and you don't have to worry about shipping.

Re:I'll wait

[harl]

Exactly.

I've been buying games on launch day for as far as I can remember and not once have a paid a $6 premium to do so.

Re:I'll wait

[Anonymous Coward]

$6 is the shipping fee. There is no additional shipping charge. That is pretty good, isn't it?

Re:I'll wait

[rtechie]

Someone on /. must really love GameStop. You might like them, but their business revolves around buying used video games from little kids that don't know they could do far better on ebay, or on craigslist, or trading with thier friends and then selling those used games hugely marked up. GameStop typically gives $3 for a game the sell for $25.

GameStop has a blatantly illegal return policy. They refuse to give you your money back on anything, ever. Those suits? Over getting them to return stuff. One of the things was a game that I had purchased 30 seconds earlier.

GameStop also destroyed the chain I actually liked, Funcoland.

Not so new really

[Lanoitarus]

Didnt they already do this for book releases (harry potter methinks)? Not such a revolutionary offering in that case, although still a welcome one. Amazons shipping and fulfillment system continually impresses me. If they ever joined forces with newegg we might reach singularity.

Great!

[moo083]

I have Amazon Prime, and got Soul Calibur IV from them and this was awesome. I hope they'll do this for all new games!

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to Walmart at 12:00 AM on the day of release for SC4.

Truth be told, I hated the experience. Sure, I got the game, but I was exhausted. I almost wanted to return it because I was too tired to enjoy it.

The funny thing was, a few days later, they started advertising 12:00 AM pickup for MADDEN.

So yeah, that was a quick way to get it... but just like with paying $5.00 to get a game early, there are some trade-offs that only the ubergamer will want to make.

Re:Great!

[Sobrique]

I can't help but wonder at the sanity of someone so desparate to buy a computer game they'll go out at midnight to get it.

I mean, seriously. A game is a leisure activity, not a life essential. Is it really so hard to wait a few hours? Or just wait for it to get delivered, or something?

Now all they have to do

[Anonymous Coward]

is figure out how to ship a game before I even know I want it.

Re:Now all they have to do

[silent_artichoke]

I give up. Please don't give me any more mod points. There is no longer any distinction between +1 Funny and +1 Insightful for me anymore. The decision is too much at 5am with no coffee. I end up wasting them all on stupid Soviet Russia jokes that aren't even funny.

Like the warez scene has done for years?

[Lord_Sintra]

So, Amazon have finally caught up with 0day warez. Shame most games can be obtained at -1day, or more, if you know the right websites. And it doesn't cost an extortionate amount..

Costs too much.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you live far away from...any store that sells games, the 5.98 surcharge isn't really worth it. And considering even Wal-Mart will have games on their street dates, this doesn't sound like much except for a perk for people who already have Amazon Prime.

Re:Costs too much.

[sangreal66]

It isn't a surcharge, its the shipping fee. Overnight delivery used to cost upwards of $15 on games for non-Prime accounts before this change

You don't have this in the US?

[Sockatume]

Here in the UK companies have been shipping games out so that they reach customers on the release date for at least the past eight years, and probably more than a decade. Gameplay always guaranteed it with first-class mail, which usually meant you got a game 2-3 days before release, and almost everyone else does it on their free delivery option (e.g. Play.com). Amazon.co.uk is about the only exception that springs to mind.

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[hedwards]

I believe we do. Or at least Best Buy shipped my prerelease order of The Beast with a Billion backs so that it would arrive on the release date. It ended up coming a day early.

I'd be surprised if Best Buy wouldn't do that for games. I'm sure there are other retailers that will as well.

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[SupremoMan]

In America the mentality is different. If you can charge for something, why do it for free?

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[Sockatume]

I thought so, it seemed terribly unlikely that mail order places would hold off like that.

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[Anonymous Coward]

That has also been the case here in the US... I'm not sure why this is news. Amazon is finally doing what every other game store has been doing for years.

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[Mark Programmer]

Yeah, this is a situation where US distribution mostly falls flat-on-its-face.

I don't know the whole story, but my understanding is that GameStop has the US market pretty much wired down for first-day delivery. Due to the deals they have with publishers, if you aren't them or a handful of other big-name stores, the publishers won't even ship you the game on day 1 because they want to go with channels that have a proven track record.

Amazon being added to the set of big names for the publishers is a big step forward for them.

Re:You don't have this in the US?

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK is 80 miles long. How hard could it be to distribute on release day?

$5.98

[Anonymous Coward]

I just don't understand this number. Why not make it something simple like $5 or $6? I've never understood this. It's not like the delivery service is going to hike the price the day before every big game release.

Granted we're talking about online purchases which involve no coinage (or very little...) so it shouldn't matter that much. But why not use a nice round number?!

Re:$5.98

[ForestGrump]

to some, it registers as less than $6. To others, they think alot of thought was put into the number.

Re:$5.98

[Alex777]

To me, it registers as more than zero, and for that reason, I won't be using it. Not that I ever buy console games on release day, anyway.

Re:$5.98

[gEvil (beta)]

You clearly don't understand the psychology of pricing. $5.98 is less than $6 (and $5.99 for that matter), which makes quite a few people think that they're actually saving something.

Re:$5.98

[SomeJoel]

They also do it with gas (in the U.S. at least). Have you ever noticed all the gas prices have .009 added to the end. It's not $3.75 gas, like the sign *looks* like at first glance - but rather $3.759 gas. But, it's so commonplace, that we still tell people "I got gas at $3.75 a gallon". It's just another form of pricing bullshit, just like the "under a buck" menu at fast food places that, when you factor in tax (in most states), never actually cost less than a dollar.

Re:$5.98

[VeNoM0619]

It's best seeing things priced at like $999.99, as if anyone is stupid enough to think $900. Ask any person on the street how much it is, and they will all equate it to $1000 even. This marketing scheme may have been clever 30+ years ago, but now it's just tradition and actually makes me think they're (the advertisers) are stupid for thinking they can trick me, thus LESS likely to buy it (especially anything marked with 5 9s).

Not to mention seeing 5 digits vs 4 digits makes me think it costs more than just $1000 so I'm more likely to avoid it as well. Guess that's what I like about most games' economy (I'm talking in game, not real world), they mark EVEN prices, none of this translate in your head stuff.

Re:$5.98

[mattack2]

One theory I've read is that it wasn't originally a psychological game. It was originally so that the sale would actually be rung up, so the cashier would have to open the register to get the change, seemingly making less of a chance for them to pocket the money.

Re:$5.98

[garylian]

This came about before electronic cash registers came about. You could easily figure out the dollar amount if everything was in whole dollars "back in the day", but bring in those price breaks of .99 or .97, and now it's hard to figure out.

I worked in a place that had manual cash registers and little charts to figure out the tax amount to be manually keyed in back when I was in high school. Even with an even 5% tax rate in MD, the odds of a sale of items coming up an even dollar amount were decidely slim.

There is a bit of a psychological factor there, as well, but making it so that the cashier couldn't quick-math the number in their head was the real source of it starting.

Re:$5.98

[terrarum]

Where I work in the UK the pennies are a code; a £599.99 laptop is a current model, a £599.97 computer is out of line and we won't be getting more. I think .98 means something slightly different, can't remember. I've been told a lot of other companies do this as well.

Re:$5.98

[Rurik]

Actually, people are dumb enough to think just that. I see it whenever I help someone purchase a car. The price of the car will be, say, 14,950. In conversations when you ask them how much the car is they'll say "14... 14... 14,9 something". The more time goes by, the more the price mentally goes from 14950 to 14000. You focus on the big numbers up front, and the smaller ones diminish over time.

You see this all the time with home sales, too. And eBay. The big key there is to work your price within search boundaries. If a typical person is going to search for a house from 100,000 to 250,000, and you're priced at 250,000, the search engine may not pick up your item. If you price at 249,999.00, it definitely will be.

Re:$5.98

[SBacks]

I've noticed that Best Buy has a system for this too. Sale items always end differently than a regular priced item. .x5 vs .x9 I believe.

Re:$5.98

[VeNoM0619]

The stupid part is, whenever I do searches between amounts, I generally only want items up to at the very worst 80% of the amount. So in your example I would be looking from 100,000 to 200,000 (200,000 to 250,000 would be at the bottom and wouldn't even be looked at). Therefor I would never care or consider the 249,999 house. Whereas if I was searching for 250,000 to 500,000. That 249,999 would be first on my list, and more likely I would jump at the chance of buying it.

On the note related to the people buying cars, that just amazes me. Unless I was lied to by the salesman, and/or he mumbled the remaining 950, I cannot see that working. I just wish I saw more companies that deal with *.00 (raise it a penny, I don't care) that way I could tell they aren't trying to outsmart people, but there's few out there.

Re:$5.98

[mattack2]

At least one store that I see ads for $x off a minimum $y style coupons, the fine print says something like "not valid on prices ending with 97 cents", for this very
reason -- it's already heavily discounted. (I think it's SportMart ads with this technique.)

Works well!

[Anonymous Coward]

Already have TW 09 at my door. /Prime customer

What about fallout?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is good news (especially since I'm a prime member), but what about fallout 3? It seems like they should have been able to include this game as well, especially since they have an amazon-only edition.

Oh well. Good to hear, but the list of supported games is a little underwhelming. Hopefully it's just a matter of time before all games are supported.

Srsly? Not new, and shouldn't be a pay service

[bconway]

I was getting games and movies on release day from Buy.com circa 2000, and I'm pretty sure I've run into it a few times since then. Is anyone going to fall for Amazon's "service?"

Only games?

[Dave Tucker Online]

This is a great feature, and I love Amazon Prime. However, does anybody know if they already have this for books as well? I noticed my last D&D book which was released last Tuesday got here that same day. I used Two-Day shipping (free with Prime).

Re:Only games?

[k_187]

I know they've done it with the Harry Potter books.

To me, its not worth 6 bucks, you'd spend less than that in gas to pick something up at a store, probably.

Re:Only games?

[Alex777]

The problem with that is you'd have to pay tax. Between the tax and the gas money, it's about a wash. I'd just as soon wait a few extra days and save the money.

thank goodness for this

[DragonTHC]

This is what I repeatedly asked amazon for and now they had enough of us ask for it that they deliver.

Excellent service. I am already a prime member so I'm highly looking forward to this one.

Amazon Prime

[oahazmatt]

I tried Amazon Prime. I got a free trial and decided to pick up some random things that didn't qualify for the super-saver shipping.

The problem with that, is while the 3-5 day shipping comes UPS at around 6:00 PM, when I'm home from work, the 2-day shipping comes during business hours and requires a signature and they won't leave it with the apartment's office. So in order to get the items I ordered I had to drive 30 minutes to the UPS center, wait until they opened it for pick-up, and then wait for my driver to show up with my delivery.

I cancelled AP before it rolled over into a charge. I was hoping there was some sort of feedback form, but there was not.

Be careful of any special shipping you get from Amazon, because there's a chance it becomes two-day-get-your-butt-over-here-and-pick-it-up-yourself.

Re:Amazon Prime

[bilbravo]

That problem is entirely UPS or whomever the parcel carrier was... I guess you could argue that amazon should use someone else's service, but in my experience whether the package is left at the leasing office depends on 2 things: the carrier, and the relationship of the carrier and the leasing office.
Point in case, UPS will leave things at the leasing office but FedEx will not. I asked the FedEx guy why not, and he said that he always gets a bad attitude from the lady in the leasing office.

Re:Amazon Prime

[snowraver1]

FedEx will leave it at your door if you leave a note saying:

DATE

Mr. FedEx driver: Please leave package with tracking number XXXXXXXXXX on the back porch/between the doors/wherever.

thank you,

your name
sig

Address, including zip/postal code.

Re:Amazon Prime

[OldeTimeGeek]

It really depends where you live and if the shipper feels that your location is "safe". Neither FedEX nor UPS will leave a package at my condominium, even if the delivery notice slip is signed. They will, however, drop packages off without signature at my friend's house 10 miles away.

Re:Amazon Prime

[sexconker]

No.
It depends on the item.

There are 5 basic categories.

Drop it somewhere and forget it.
Leave it with a person / responsible-looking dog (no dogs with shifty eyes!).
Get some sort of signature.
Get an adult's signature (as opposed to a minor's).
Get the recipient's signature.

In normal circumstances, what is required is dependent upon three factors:

Type of service requested by sender.
Declared value of the items / value of insurance on the items.
Type of item (booze? medical supplies? "Electric wand massager"?).

Exceptions can alter the general flow of things.

If you have a porch or doorstep that's gated off and not visible from the street, items typically required to be handed off to a person/dog.

If you have a regular delivery guy and you told him "yeah just leave it here", or "yeah, that asshole neighbor stole my Yoda Green Fl...ashlight" you'll get more lax or stringent delivery requirements, appropriately.

If they try to deliver and you're not there, you can fill out a slip (or, if you're being proactive, you can leave a note on the door the day you expect it). These slips often have a space for your signature, and that can count as the recipient signature, but will not work in cases of booze/porn/etc. This will also not work if the shipper specifically requested the recipient's signature upon delivery. (If you sign your name on a post-it, you get nothing.)

But in general, you'll never break out of the top three requirements (signature required, adult signature required, recipient's signature required). The best you can hope for is for the delivery guy to scribble something down for you and drop it off. This requires getting to know your delivery guy.

If you're worried about shit being dropped off, or going back to the facility where you have to pick it up, you've got 3 options:

Deliver shit to your work address.
Leave a note asking them to leave the package with your neighbor / landlord / etc.
Learn what time they go near your house for deliveries. Take lunch at that time and go home.

None of those get you out of the delivery requirements, and they're dependent on having neighbors that aren't jerks, but they are very useful.

Re:Amazon Prime

[nullforce]

Amazon allows you to ship to an address other than your home address. I usually have my packages delivered to my workplace. As a side benefit, UPS and FedEx typically deliver to commercial addresses first.

Re:Amazon Prime

[immcintosh]

That's... not such a good idea if you live in the city. Plus, I'm not sure they'd actually follow instructions like that (liability and all) unless you call and register the request with their dispatch or whatever they call it.

Re:Amazon Prime

[nedlohs]

I've placed about 30 orders with amazon this year (so obviously I use Prime...) due to some uniqueish circumstances. Ranging from $1.30 to about $200 per order.

I have *never* had to sign for a package. I've had the UPS guy knock on the door and hand it to me, leave it outside the door after knocking, and leave it on the driveway.

Of course I'm in a small town of 1000 people - so leaving stuff out is pretty normal...

When I lived in the big city though, UPS/fedex/DHL always left packages with the valet, signature required or not, in the apartment building (much to my annoyance since I was often home...).

Re:Amazon Prime

[TheThiefMaster]

I've found that having things delivered to work tends to get them a day earlier than getting them delivered at home. Not to mention actually having someone there to sign for it if needed...

Re:Amazon Prime

[JadesFire]

If all you're ordering is books or even software, the UPS does not require a signature for the 2-day shipping. Something like three out of four deliveries don't even warrant a rung doorbell from our UPS guy when he drops off our Amazon packages.

Windows only? Xbox 360 only?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can the summary be any more obscure?

Use tax

[tepples]

The problem with that is you'd have to pay tax.

You have to pay tax either way. When you buy in a B&M, the register adds sales tax to your order. When you buy from an online store with no warehouse in your state, you declare the value in the use tax field of your annual state income tax form.

Re:Use tax

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people do you think actually do that? I think what the poster means is if you buy in a store, you are forced to pay income tax. If you buy from Amazon, you are merely legally obligated to under threat of prosecution for tax evasion.

I'm benefitting.... how?

[Anonymous Coward]

Costco also has given similar service. I have gotten both the XBox 360 and Halo 3 on their respective launch days at my doorstep. Pay extra? I SAVED 6 bucks from ordering through Costco!

This isn't new...

[Androclese]

I've had the same type of service from GameStop.com for a while now. GTA IV, Soul Caliber IV, Lego: Indiana Jones, just to name a few.

How is this a deal?

[Sp00nMan]

Can someone explain to me how this is better than just going to my local store on a release day and buying it? Why pay Amazon $6 more to get it on the same day? I don't get what Amazon is thinking??

Re:How is this a deal?

[terrarum]

Simple, some people (like me) are lazy. Paying more is a bit silly, free delivery is usually good enough, as a few others are saying.

Re:How is this a deal?

[Sobrique]

I order from Amazon, because I like their recommendations system, and their huge catalogue. I'll batch my orders, and when I get enough for free delivery, I'll press the button.

That works nicely for me.

If I'm after something _right now_ i'll go out and buy it, but usually this is on _my_ schedule (e.g. I feel like a new film to watch) rather than anything to do with publisher/distribution schedules.

*shrug*. Don't understand the people who must have the new release RIGHT NOW. It smells too much of being sheep lead around by the almight marketing shepherd.

Re:How is this a deal?

[terrarum]

I buy most things I want from Amazon, unless my staff discount at work can get it for me cheaper. I just like waking up in the morning, going downstairs, and hey look there's my copy of GTA IV waiting for me. A friend of mine in the US drove to a store, paid the pre-order fee, then woke up early on release day and drove there again to pay the rest and collect it, and all that got him the game one day before me. That said, I don't own a car, so who knows?

Re:How is this a deal?

[Zorikin]

It's madness. The press release makes reference to "long lines" to buy new video games. I stood in a line to pre-order a Wii at GameStop and since then I have never seen any such line. With no pre-order, I bought GTA4 on the week of release and got a $10 gift card. The GameStop $5 deposit is bad enough, but a $6 pre-order fee on top of retail? It's like they're trying to punish us for planning things out responsibly.

I totally respect that decision...

[patio11]

... but for some of us, the difference between $50 and $56 is not so much a lunch out as it is staying an extra four minutes past quitting time. I don't normally worry too much about exactly when I get my brand new toys, but for the ones I've been eagerly anticipating for forever, sure, bill me for the FedEx. (Better still, figure out how to let me download you in advance. I love digital delivery and I spend my entertainment budget appropriately, industry watchers!)

My take on it.

[FoamingToad]

(As a UK citizen) is that Amazon usually charges less than the game shops. It might be different in the US, but over here a game that will go in the shops for £35 or £40 (approximately $70 - $80) will usually be on sale at Amazon for £25 ($50).

Even factoring in the delivery charge, it's still likely to be cheaper than retail.

I've not been into a game shop in years. Just never darken their doors. I use Amazon for the games I want at close to release date, and computer fairs for older stuff.

My experience is that games shops are buoyed up by console players, as the PC range is (1) extremely limited (2) unavailable for trade-in and (3) overpriced. Of course, it might be totally different across the pond.

i really hate to say it

[Joker1980]

i live in the suburbs and we have a big 24 hour tesco 5 mins down the road, it has always baffled me as apart from the saturday madness theres never anyone in there (well relativly speaking). When GTA4 came out i wasent going to bother with it right away, that is till i went down to tesco at midnight to get some milk and other things. They had loads of copies of GTA and including myself there were 2 people so i thought why not, less than 10 mins later i was at home playing rockstars latest and greatest. It wasent till the next day when some of my friends who had camped out at various game stores came round to mine. They were all amazed that i had a copy and were asking me who i knew in what shop, when i told em how i got it they were sick (the local Game got 7 copies in for the midnight launch). After that i started paying attention to my games purchases and came to a realisation: the last place you want to buy new games from are shops that specialise in games.

When i was younger these shops were a lifeline, today i find them not only useless but pretty obstructive (no pre-order, no you didnt bundle, no your not signed up to our bullshit club etc etc). I have to wonder why they have chosen to alienate themselves like this, its almost as if they want to be irrelevant.

Question to Amazon

[Ilgaz]

Why can't I buy DVD ISO of a game or a executable which would produce copy protected DVD-R of game with my credit card making you and game developer profit more instead of plastic manufacturers and DHL?

I am also outside USA which means $30-$40 paid for reliable plastic delivery.

Why are game/software developers obsessed with boxes and plastic? Really... Is there a DHL/FedEx conspiracy? :)