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Microsoft Causes Internal Family Strife

techmuse writes "Fresh from its ad featuring Bill Gates and Jerry Seinfeld eating churros and discussing shoes, Microsoft has introduced a new advertisement in which the aging former CEO and comedian take up residence with a family, causing infighting and malicious plots by the family members. Although the ad does not mention Microsoft's operating system directly, it does mirror the real world experience of the company's products — appearing where not wanted, hard to remove, causing administration headaches, and finally being forced out in hopes of getting one's living space back."

52 of 543 comments (clear)

  1. i'm no MS fan, but... by gadabyte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    holy flamebait summary, batman!

    --
    the united states is a nation of laws; badly written and randomly enforced -- frank zappa
    1. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait until you actually watch the video - stupid, unfunny, lame, pointless.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by asg1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree... I thought this one was good for a few laughs. Yes it is a commercial but how many commercials do you actually laugh at? Again, like the first ad, Microsoft just got many to watch it and talk about it; thus it was successful. Besides, do you really think they are trying to reach out to the average slashdotter? Remember that these ads aren't targeted at us.

    3. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, I found parts of it pretty funny.

      It does accentuate how out of touch both Seinfeld and Gates are (and even mentions that fact).

      You would have no idea that it's a commercial about an OS.

      In fact, you can run the same commercial and put a picture of Tux at the end, with the slogan "Keep uninvited pests away" (or something like that; I'm not a marketing guy) and be quite effective.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    4. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes it is a commercial but how many commercials do you actually laugh at?

      The Mac/PC ones, I actually laughed at -- and it also contained some reference to the actual product being pitched!

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    5. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is flamebait if the accuracy is entirely of your own opinion and debatable, thus "bait"ing those of an opposite opinion to "flame" you with their own.

    6. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Insightful

          No, no. There's an underdog spin on it.

          They are staying with a family. The family obviously boards other people. The grandmother has been living there for 12 years. Maybe this is a reference to Windows 95 being ancient, but still kicking around the house.

          While they are there, the little girl gets upset that she lost her room. Here they are calling non-Microsoft OS's bratty little girls.

          The little girl gets her revenge by planting the stolen item in Gates' pack. This is either saying that other OS's use deception to get what they want. Gates, being the better man just leaves to let the bratty girl have her way, because there are bigger things to come.

          I like understanding subtle undertones to what appears to be obvious. I also like listening to the words of "Hotel California". :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    7. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by e2d2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why not just come with facts then and leave the flaming statements behind? It's hard to have any useful dialog when you start the conversation with YOU SUCK. I can criticize MS all day long using facts, but it gets me no where to come right out of the pocket with a very biased statement. Why would anyone even follow up if it seems that I cannot be swayed and have taken up a religious-like stance?

      Some people need to get that chip off of their shoulder and grow up. They aren't doing anyone in the Open Source community a favor by coming off like a pretentious ass that can't be reasoned with.

      You want me to criticize windows? I can write a laundry list using facts. You want me to criticize Linux? I can write a laundry list of facts. Facts speak volumes. Everything else is a waste of time and gets the us nowhere.

    8. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nah, like me, we just got older. When were were young Microsoft was pure evil, Linux was the savior. All the MS did was wrong and all that Linux did was good. Then we entered the real world. Finding the Microsoft actually makes rather competitive products. And Linux has consistently dropped the ball in some areas. Over the years when challenges of life take effect GNU and Software freedom means less then it did before. It is about getting the Job done, and you find that software freedom has less to do with free speech then you did when your young. Some say we have sold out. I think of it as having a greater perspective. I am a Linux developer and I still use it daily. I have been using the latest versions. However I am finding that Software freedom comes at a cost of other freedoms. And those guys who choose windows over Linux aren't as stupid as I once believed, and actually had informed reasons to do so.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by aftk2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Umm, Gates is the product being pitched.

      --
      concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
    10. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by hoffmanbike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree; especially with the deception idea (at least when refering to a certain fruit flavored OS.) I doubt the ads will have much effect in the long run even when they start focusing on the actual products. Once consumer perception is set it's hard to change.

    11. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by Daimanta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      food FreeBSD IP stack

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    12. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by Kelbear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...He's an actor making a commercial and getting paid. Get a grip on reality.

    13. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then we entered the real world. Finding the Microsoft actually makes rather competitive products.

      And if that were the whole story, few geeks would have a problem with them. Really, who doesn't want to use the right tool for the job? But that isn't the entire picture. Microsoft may have a few competitive products, but if you want to go anywhere near them, you're forced to take half a dozen other half-baked products that they forced down your throat. Then in order to interoperate properly you have to outfit your entire network with Microsoft technologies that you didn't want. And let's not forget the way they use their big money and market position to force preloads, manipulate international standards bodies such as ISO, and a million other reasons why Microsoft will build a better product only as a last resort.

      No, it's not just about the product. If they succeeded on merit alone they would deserve to win. But that's not the Microsoft we know.

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    14. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by Valiss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you have to clarify an ad, you've already lost.

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      -Valiss
    15. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not just come with facts then and leave the flaming statements behind? ...

      You want me to criticize windows? I can write a laundry list using facts. You want me to criticize Linux? I can write a laundry list of facts. Facts speak volumes. Everything else is a waste of time and gets the us nowhere.

      You do realize you're advocating a discussion based on facts in a conversation about a commercial that is, if anything, entirely devoid of fact? This marketing campaign seems to be attempting the use of humor and emotional icons to reframe the general feeling of the public for a brand (be that the company or a particular product - I suspect its Vista). It seems to me that it's certainly within the realm of the subject to also use humor to poke fun at the campaign if not the brand itself.

    16. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by street+struttin' · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Established brands rarely tell you anything about the product unless they're introducing something new. For example, Coke commercials. They might have someone holding a coke bottle or maybe even taking a sip, but the commercial doesn't have any "information" about Coke. McDonald's is the same way. Unless they're introducing a new sandwich or something, they don't talk about the product. They just show someone holding the bag or taking a bite out of the sandwich. But you know what? Everyone who takes a bite of the Big Mac or a sip of that Coke have some things in common: They're happy and attractive and having fun!

      Yes, all those Coke and McDonalds commercials don't talk about the product, but show the product being consumed by attractive happy people. This crap only shows the product twice (the xbox the kid is playing, although it's apparently a game that will never be released) and the logo at the end. So really, the real product is not ever shown in the video. "Microsoft" the company is represented by Bill Gates, I suppose, but he is neither happy or attractive, and neither are any of the other people in the ad. In fact, they all complain quite loudly the whole time until "Microsoft" is removed from the house by the little sister, who is then both happy and attractive (by comaprison). Sounds like the opposite of conventional advertising, and likely fails at the goal of advertising.

      People will only pay attention to these commercials for the same reason they watch Nasa launches and Nascar, to see someone fail horribly and die a firey death.

    17. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by nabsltd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have to agree. I laugh at the Mac/PC ads, mostly because they are so over the top.

      Macs aren't that wonderful and PCs don't suck as much as the ads would want you to believe, but that don't change the fact that the ads are well done, and even non-techies find them worth watching.

    18. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by Massacrifice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have to clarify an ad when you get upset by it and don't know why. Most of the time, this is because you're not part of the target demographic. This is the case here, with a general-public/family oriented/techno-unsavvy ad vs. Slashdot readerbase. I think GP's ad deconstruction is quite acccurate in this regard, and helps explain where MS might be going next.

      --
      -- Home is where you eat your heart out.
    19. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If people are talking about your ad on Slashdot, you've already won.

    20. Re:i'm no MS fan, but... by dwye · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Umm, Gates is the product being pitched.

      Agreed. These are the equivalent of the "home movies" of John D. Rockefeller that were shown, after his retirement, during the newsreel segment of a motion picture show, to "prove" that the old monopolist was just another grandpa, just like everyone else's, and not some terrible person. I would not be surprised if Stalin didn't do the same thing, too.

  2. Advertising by jmpeax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft's operating system - appearing where not wanted, hard to remove, causing administration headaches, and finally being forced out in hopes of getting one's living space back.

    Well you know you could just avoid giving Microsoft all this publicity if you feel so strongly about the quality of their products.

    As for the advert, I thought it was quite funny. It didn't mention any specific products, but that's not really the point: the very personification of Microsoft (good ol' Bill) is given a soft, friendly image that will inevitably reflect onto the company and its products. It's got a kind of quirkiness that works really well - this will no doubt help improve sales of more personal product line (such as the Zune) that aren't really compatible with the hygienic, corporate image of Windows and Office.

    1. Re:Advertising by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You wrote this advertising scheme, didn't you?

      An ad which doesn't mention a product is hardly an ad, wouldn't you say? It is extremely hard to write a 30 second spot which not only pulls in your audience, but captivates them enough to work out subtle meanings. Hell, most 2 hour movies can't do this.

      I'm not quite sure what MS is after with these spots, but I truly hope it's not what you claim; that would indicate a level of incompetence which even I wouldn't expect out of MS.

      --
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    2. Re:Advertising by Lord_Frederick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the ad itself is being talked about, then it has been successful on some level.

    3. Re:Advertising by jmpeax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      that would indicate a level of incompetence which even I wouldn't expect out of MS

      You vastly underestimate the power of advertising. Consider that most people who see these ads aren't anti-Microsoft Slashdotters, but people who have other interests and for whom Microsoft products are just part of the scenery along with different cars, cereals and soft drinks.

      These adverts are designed to make Microsoft stand out on the skyline by associating with it a more comfortable, personal feeling.

    4. Re:Advertising by Coryoth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the ad itself is being talked about, then it has been successful on some level.

      While there is some truth to that, I'm not sure exactly how successful you can judge an ad to be simply because it gets talked about. I mean an ad that consisted of a long, detailed and graphic discussion between Gates and Ballmer as to their preferred methods for torturing and maiming kittens would probably get talked about; I'm not sure such an ad could be considered as positive for Microsoft. An series of ads that has Bill Gates working his way through the Microsoft product line, explaining how bad each product is, highlighting several flaws, and then laughing over how the public has been so easily duped into buying it ... that would probably get plenty of people talking about it; again, I'm not sure that's likely to be judged a successful campaign. There's more to advertising and marketing than getting talked about -- the context and nature of the discussion does matter. If people are talking about these ads with regard to how out of touch they demonstrate Microsoft to be (as has been the case in a lot of conversation I've read and heard), I am not sure that actually count as a net positive for Microsoft.

    5. Re:Advertising by AGRW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's being talked about, so the Ad is successful. Is it successful in a good way? Yes the Ad is humorous, silly, & vacuous. Once tone is established, the message Microsoft wants will be added. Most likely messages is Microsoft just wants to make your life better and easier, and here's how we do that. Wait for the next few Ads before criticizing or lauding.

    6. Re:Advertising by PJ1216 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're making an incorrect generalization about ads.

      Ads don't have to sell a product. But they do have to sell something. Brand is a perfectly reasonable thing to sell.

      In these ads, they are selling their brand. look at the icon next to the summary here. Bill Gates as a borg. This is *not* the image MS wants to be associated with. So they're just making silly commercials. There are THOUSANDS of commercials that do just this and are successful. Remember Quiznos first commercials, "We're like the guy who invented pants."

      People attacking these ads are mainly attacking these ads because they attack ANYTHING microsoft does. The ads are completely fine. Their products are fine. You don't like them, thats ok. There are millions of products that don't appeal to everyone. That does *not* mean they're bad. It just means they don't appeal to you, but if a product is as successful as MS's products, they obviously appeal to someone. Some people ACTUALLY like them and weren't somehow roped in by monopolistic practices or something which I'm sure someone will throw out there to explain the only reason Microsoft is 'successful.'

    7. Re:Advertising by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's a common mistake geeks make : ads (along with most political speeches) are not made for people who actually parse sentences. They are for people who just listen to them and let their "gut feelings" influence their actions. The goal is to make an instinctive neural pathway for ideas : Microsoft BillGates FriendlyGuy makes people feel more comfortable about Microsoft and directly confront the image that we convey here that Microsoft MonopolisticMonster. We are less efficient because we base our arguments on facts, not formulas.

      Basics of marketing : if the product name and the quality you want to associate it with are more than 3 words away, your sentence fails, whatever its point is. Why do you think that you here so much the "McSame" and "Obama Ben Laden" neologism ? They are far more efficient at negative image association than any well weighted argument.

      Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate it when I am confronted to this kind of argument. But I have to admit that as much as I would like Microsoft to listen to geeks when it comes to fact, geeks should take a lesson from Microsoft when it comes to marketing.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    8. Re:Advertising by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the ad itself is being talked about, then it has been successful on some level.

      Someone delusional can get people talking about their behavior but that doesn't make them a success. People were talking about Vista after it first came out. Lot of people talked about Bob and Clippy.

      I think it's like watching a train wreck. Lot people are going to talk about it, but that doesn't mean they're going to go, "Hey, let's take the train to grandmas this weekend!"

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    9. Re:Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I can't agree with this statement. The UK had a number of really good adverts that everyone was talking about / quoting. The only thing was, when asked no-one could say what the advert was for. Thus they were classed as failure.

    10. Re:Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      R. Kelly and OJ Simpson has been conversation subjects a long time, but the conversations still end with the same conclusions: pedophile and murderer.

  3. Re:Slow news day? by DanWS6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Disaster? I had people who know next to nothing about computers or Microsoft talk to me about the ad. That seems like a pretty good ad to me. I can't remember the last time someone asked me if I had seen an ad.

  4. Great summary :-) by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd like to see them visit a family with a nerdy kid who uses a MythTV box.

    "Yeah, I used to use Windows, but it wouldn't record all the shows I told it to -- something about a "broadcast flag content protection error". Ever since I replaced it with Myth, I've had no more problems.".

  5. Is it just me... by Darundal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...or does anyone get a "Napoleon Dynamite" vibe from these ads? If that is what they are shooting for, no wonder they are so boring.

  6. Narrative analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The underlying message is that Microsoft (via Bill Gates -- as the symbolic head of Microsoft) is spending time understanding its customers. It's an astonishing mea culpa -- an admittance of past sins and guilt. Few other corporate entities would be as prepared to admit their past failings.

    This campaign may well run until 2010, when the next Windows is due -- that's only just over a year away, depending on launch month. It might be very advanced publicity for that version, rather than Vista.

  7. The Length? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone else confused about the 4 1/2 minute length?! For a single ad? They must have to buy complete commercial blocks to run this thing in.

    No room for anyone but MS with that length. But I guess that's been their philosophy since the 80's.

    --
    Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  8. uhm by sveard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's good to know that I can come to slashdot anytime for fair and balanced news.

    Oh wait, there's nothing fair or balanced about this. It's not even news.

  9. Commercials about Nothing by twisty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What I got from the first commercial was:
    Jerry represents a brainless Microsoft customer who is destined to take first place in the Darwin Awards. His head is so full of idiotic ideas that when Bill Gates wants to sell him a "sweet and chewy" PC, he's first in line to break his teeth.

    The second commercial seemed well summed up by this article. A cost/benefit analysis of a Seinfeld/Gates stay is like my experience installing XP: You can explicitly tell them twice to stay off the internet and use an assigned address, but they have no respect for social mores. They will fill your resources with their aging disfunctional bloat.

  10. Re:The big question... by jonnythan · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I find that the biggest problem with Vista is its image.

    I recently went from XP to Vista and couldn't be happier with a desktop OS. I use Ubuntu and Mandriva on the desktop on a regular basis, and build and maintain desktop machines with all four OSes on them, as well as run Ubuntu and Debian (and Solaris) on servers.

    But Vista is a solid, fast, smart desktop OS. It's by far the best PC desktop OS out there. I was surprised when I tried it out and found out that it's quick, clever, and stable.

    So, that said, I think it's enough to create an ad campaign that goes directly to Microsoft's/Vista's image. Cause the OS itself is pretty good.

  11. kdawson fud by justinlee37 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's a pretty misleading headline, kid.

  12. Re:Selling the big lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They did not create TCP/IP, SMTP, the Web, or much of anything else.

    No, they just put them on cheap commodity hardware.

    I'm afraid PG&E have illuminated more homes than Edison too.

  13. They say any buzz is good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    with these ads, it seems it's more a case of laughing at you instead of laughing with you. Maybe there's such a thing as a negative buzz, too, you think?

  14. I'm willing to see more by jdevivre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As far as it's relevance and depth are concerned, I'll leave that to you.

    Me? I'm willing to see where they take it. I'm getting the subtle (and blatant) security, complexity, and usability references. Bring on more. I'm mildly entertained.

    If the campaign were to end with a shocking release of a new OS and a "We Finally Get It" slogan, I'd also be pleased. Mildly entertained will have to do.

  15. Brand Awareness by Jodka · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft increasingly has the problem with advertising that their is no actual reason to choose their products over the competition, therefore they have difficulty promoting their products in advertising by making any rational appeal.

    If the purpose of advertising is to increase brand awareness, what is the purpose of advertising if you are Microsoft, you own the market, and everyone is already aware of your brand?

    Maybe that Microsoft is a monopoly explains the new strategy of not mentioning their product in advertisements. Some sharp advertising executive realized that Microsoft did not need to mention their own products in commercials because everyone has already heard of them. Then he sold that idea to Balmer.

    Though while Microsoft is in the enviable position having already achieved near 100% global product awareness, they face a new challenge that in addition to the public being aware of their products it is increasingly aware that those products suck.

    Exhibit A is the the idiotic Mojave Experiment campaign which confronted that problem directly. Mistake 1: It was a public acknowledgment by Microsoft of widespread public discontentment with Vista and Mistake 2: It was an unconvincing attempt at persuasion using the pseudoscience of pop psychology. The argument goes like "you all think Vista sucks and we are going prove scientifically in a laboratory that you do not really think that Vista sucks as much as you think it sucks.

    The Mojave campaign had the problem that it was about how people thought that Vista sucks and that is not a fact that you want to be advertising to your customers. By being about nothing, the Seinfeld+Gates campaign does not make the same mistake. But it still fails to overcome the problem which is that Vista is a bad product and their is growing public perception of that. Their are subtle and indirect forms of promotion. Consumers are irrational. Based on the advertisements which I see, I am pretty sure that male brains actually work in way which makes "Wow, the woman in that photo holding that bottle has great tits, therefore I will drink Budweiser." An argument to purchase a product can be both convincing and irrational, but Microsoft's new ads are not in any way convincing.

    --
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  16. Re:Selling the big lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, because TCP/IP, SMTP, and the Web are so valuable without an OS. Love 'em or hate 'em, Microsoft did connect billions by putting an OS on the desktop that made those technologies worth something to Joe Average.

  17. !!?? Where do you live ??!!?? by hummassa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Facts speak volumes.

    As you seem to live in another planet, and one where facts do speak volumes nonetheless, I friendly request that you take me to your leader -- after asserting that your homeworld environment is livable for my pitiful lifeform.

    Because, in this planet:

    • spin speaks volumes
    • hype speaks volumes
    • noise speaks volumes
    • a beautiful face or a nice body speaks volumes
    • knowing how to throw or kick a ball speaks volumes
    • engineered lying speaks volumes
    • brute force speaks volumes
    • money speaks volumes

    But facts were never and will never be on the list. Not even close.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  18. Re:I want to see one by gabec · · Score: 5, Insightful

    holy flamebait summary, batman!

    Seriously... Slashdot never has made claims at being unbiased, and I have no excess fondness for MS products (I'm currently writing this from my ubuntu desktop) but still... Frontpaging needlessly harsh opinions best left to tongue-in-cheek office humor don't serve the slashdot community.

    If I want vitriolic bias, I'll head to Fox News.

  19. Water cooler ads not always effective by mcneely.mike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just because an ad is being talked about does not make it effective...
    The "Where's the beef?" commercial years ago was a great commercial... an old lady asking where the beef is.
    The only problem was that, although people were talking about it, no one could remember what product the commercial was for and did not generate the needed sales.
    After a while, it was pulled and Wendy's did other things... (yes, being a business student who had been studying marketing, i remember the product).

    --
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  20. What "other freedoms" ? by mpapet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    However I am finding that Software freedom comes at a cost of other freedoms.

    What exactly is harmed by having more transparency and lower communication costs resulting in more efficient infrastructure?

    And those guys who choose windows over Linux aren't as stupid as I once believed, and actually had informed reasons to do so

    In every case I've seen it, it's because the C-level people find the name Microsoft socially acceptable explanation for everything technological. Sprinkle ANY useless explanation with Microsoftisms like "microsoft's documentation", "active directory", ".Net", "Exchange server" and they just accept the answer as is. Obligatory star wars reference, "These are not the droids you are looking for." Try it sometime!

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    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  21. Mom! He did it first! by Weaselmancer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sweet jumping Jesus on a pogo stick but I get sick of listening to partisan crap.

    "They did it first."
    "They do it worse than we do it."
    "It's different when we do it."

    Enough already.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  22. Re:Good ads but MS has bigger problems by david_thornley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You left out one category.

    Vista is perceived as being a bad product by a whole lot of people who had to use it, and not nearly all of them went in prejudiced. I was actually impressed by Vista when I first started to use it, but that feeling wore off real fast. (This was Vista SP1. We all knew that the initial version of a Microsoft product was iffy, but it should be solid after a service pack.)

    YMMV, but that's my experience. The executive summary of my report on using our software on Vista is "Vista sucks, but it's mostly usable." (This may not be a good executive summary in all corporate cultures. Add weasel words as needed.)

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes