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Tying Knots With Light

thedreadedwiccan points out a summary of a recently released physics paper about tying knots with light. A pair of researchers showed that a relatively new solution to Maxwell's equations allows light to be twisted into stable loops. They are designing experiments to test the theory now, and it could have a big impact on fusion technology. The paper's abstract is available at Nature, though a subscription is required to see the rest. Quoting: "In special situations, however, the loops might be stable, such as if light travels through plasma instead of through free space. One of the problems that has plagued experimental nuclear fusion reactors is that the plasma at the heart of them moves faster and faster and tends to escape. That motion can be controlled with magnetic fields, but current methods to generate those fields still don't do the job. If Irvine and Bouwmeester's discovery could be used to generate fields that would send the plasma in closed, non-expanding loops and help contain it, 'that would be extremely spectacular,' Bouwmeester says."

125 comments

  1. Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anybody who is anybody saw the flux capacitor in what 1984 - this is old work. the flux capacitor had loops and curves etc.

    1. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      At least one of them has a fucked up foreign-sounding last name like Bouwmeester, so I predict this will be a success! Seriously, when's the last time a scientific advancement was made by Cooper & Smith?

    2. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean November 5th 1955? The day Doc fell on the porcelain, man. Sheeesh.

    3. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by lanc · · Score: 1

      that doesn't mean that all of the strangely named ones are successful.

      --
      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
    4. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool, somebody is possibly figuring out how to make light go into loops. Maybe photon orbits? And can they be modulated?

      Now all we need are two micro-singularities. Anybody at CERN making progress on that yet?

      Then it's just a matter of resonance and figuring out to make the right soliton within the light loops that can make a nice Kerr-like pairing or something so we can stretch out the effective event horizon...

      Now we just need to figure out who the hell that Titor guy is, since we'll need a volunteer once we actually get the crazy experiment ready.

    5. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by selvan · · Score: 1

      Meh. I did this years ago - Take a fiber optic cable, tie a knot in it, shine light through one end and viola - tied knot with light. This research is clearly over-rated.

    6. Re:Done in 1984 - Flux Capacitor by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      Damn, that is some bad-ass physics when the description reads like Laforge boosting the output of the warpcore drive...

  2. Real technical vocabulary by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 5, Funny

    If Irvine and Bouwmeester's discovery could be used to generate fields that would send the plasma in closed, non-expanding loops and help contain it, 'that would be extremely spectacular,' Bouwmeester says."

    Bouwmeester continued by saying that light is, "way cool" and the ability to tie knots with it would be, "totally freaking awesome".

    1. Re:Real technical vocabulary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      that would be extremely spectacular,
      way cool and totally freaking awesome.

      Welcome to the University of California, Santa Barbara, California.

    2. Re:Real technical vocabulary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's not be hasty here, that kind of talk gets you tapped for the vice presidency!

    3. Re:Real technical vocabulary by jd · · Score: 1

      I always wondered what the "Vice" in "Vice President" meant.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  3. Light tied in circles? by philpalm · · Score: 1

    Or maybe the scientists are running around in circles? The goal is to figure out a way to bottle up plasma (for fusion energy harvesting). Since the magnetic bottle has not proven to be viable.

  4. Light sabers? by slapyslapslap · · Score: 5, Funny

    Please tell me this is getting me closer to owning a light saber. PLEASE!!!

    1. Re:Light sabers? by Jerf · · Score: 1

      Yup, it is. But only if it's perfectly spherical and never touches anything.

      (Disclaimer: No, I just made that up, but something quite like it is probably true. Might have to be toroidal.)

    2. Re:Light sabers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this gets you closer to owning a light saber.

    3. Re:Light sabers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is getting you closer to owning a light saber. I'm like the Santa Claus of Slashdot.

    4. Re:Light sabers? by MartinSchou · · Score: 0

      In Soviet Empire light saber pwns you!

    5. Re:Light sabers? by DittoBox · · Score: 1

      Shit! I hate it when my Schwartz gets twisted!

      --
      Good. Cheap. Fast. Pick Two.
    6. Re:Light sabers? by st33med · · Score: 1
  5. The summary misses the key point by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The light knots are secondary, the key point is solutions to the equations in which the electric and magnetic fields form closed loops. Otherwise the submission makes no sense, because the plasma in fusion experiments consists of matter, not photons.

    Even so, why do I think this is not actually going to work? Because for the last fifty years, fusion power has been constantly just twenty years in the future, that's why. The authors don't claim a solution to fusion containment, they are talking about possible new ways of trapping photons or creating condensates.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:The summary misses the key point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The magnetic field already forms closed loops.

    2. Re:The summary misses the key point by quanminoan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly - the magnetic confinement for a fusion torus is already completely closed. With a torus, as I understand, there are issues with plasma stability that limit the performance of the devices. However, there is no need for this light looping when you can just alter the magnetic field. Stellarators use a sort of 'helical' magnetic field twisting around a toroid to create a much more stable environment. See: http://www.physics.ucla.edu/icnsp/Html/spong/w7x_with_coils.JPG.

    3. Re:The summary misses the key point by sedm1143 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, but plasma consists of charged particles which can be trapped by electro-magnetic fields. Light (in the wave picture at least) is simply an electro-magnetic field, so if you can tie light in loops theoretically you can also trap the plasma too. Now I agree that applications are a long way off - this is a theoretical paper so presumably no one has (intentionally) done it yet. If this proves interesting someone would have to build/modify an existing experiment to create and detect the phenomenon, and then there's a long way from there to a practical device, assuming it actually proves technically feasible.

    4. Re:The summary misses the key point by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Yes, but plasma consists of charged particles which can be trapped by electro-magnetic
      > fields. Light (in the wave picture at least) is simply an electro-magnetic field, so if
      > you can tie light in loops theoretically you can also trap the plasma too.

      Also, plasma affects the propagation of light in such a way that it may help stabilize the light loop.

      Ball lightning?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:The summary misses the key point by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because for the last fifty years, fusion power has been constantly just twenty years in the future, that's why.

      No.

      The ITER guys state that it will take until the 2050s until the first production fusion powerplant comes online.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:The summary misses the key point by Instine · · Score: 1

      "It is impossible, therefore, that any arguments from experience can prove this resemblance of the past to the future,..." Hume

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    7. Re:The summary misses the key point by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I read the summary as more of a better feedback system. The earlier you can detect abnormalities, the earlier you can correct them. If the loops are only stable when the plasma is correctly configured, then your feedback becomes almost instantaneous from the time the plasma begins to destabilize, rather than being a rather slow interpretation of data from sensors that will only spot a problem once it passes the error threshold for that sensor. It would be like using the interference pattern from a tuning fork, rather than trying to copy the sound - the feedback loop becomes a part of the system.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    8. Re:The summary misses the key point by Karganeth · · Score: 1

      Even so, why do I think this is not actually going to work? Because for the last fifty years, fusion power has been constantly just twenty years in the future, that's why.

      We have certainly made a lot of progress towards sustainable fusion power in the last 50 years. There's no need to dismiss advancements just because we haven't reached the final stage of sustainable fusion power.

    9. Re:The summary misses the key point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First app, suckers, let me see you patent that.
        http://flickr.com/photos/94803303@N00/

    10. Re:The summary misses the key point by Anenome · · Score: 1

      These knots of light are called... matter. Stable loops of electro-magnetic energy are the definition of matter.

      --
      "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
  6. oooh lights by Ryogo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    wow, loops.... watch them untie damn it. but no really, thats a bad ass discovery, if only we could find an application for it

    1. Re:oooh lights by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      Well get on down to your lab and get to work. You won't be coming up with any advanced uses of new physics while you're screwing around on Slashdot.

    2. Re:oooh lights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... so, the article says that you can make stable loops for photons, if they travel through plasma, and that producing stable EM fields would help contain plasma. Probably a long shot made for publicity, but how can you not see the connection here?

  7. The Real Question is.... by cychem1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The real question is was a silver hammer necessary?

  8. It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by gardyloo · · Score: 5, Informative

    The (slashdot) summary really does miss some of the key points, and emphasize the "fusion containment" aspect, which I doubt anyone takes seriously as a use of this. One of the points that I think is key is the whole subject of homotopy groups (which I've really just learned about).

    Maxwell's equations (and the wave equation, the Helmholtz equation in momentum space, etc.) have a family of solutions characterized by various parameter values. When you first start learning physics, you typically only allow real-valued wavevectors, which leads to only propagating waves and so on. Later on, you start to realize (as did George Green around 150 years ago, and Newton realized experimentally) that allowing for complex wavenumbers is more appealing mathematically (because it allows for more complete solutions), and actually leads to physically realizable solutions that propagating waves just don't give you. The effect of passing from real to complex wavenumbers is, on the face of it, crazy, but easily understandable once the analysis is carried out, and simple to visualize on an Argand diagram.

    However, homotopy groups (if I understand it correctly) say that there may be other solutions to such equations (in nonlinear/dispersive media) which one can't get to from just simple replacements of real with complex numbers, and so forth---these divisions are the "families" of solutions. There just isn't a simple projection from one family of solutions to another, and the solutions of from one may bear no resemblance to the solutions from other famililes. This means that there may, in sufficiently complicated systems, be physically realizable behaviors which a system may fall in to, which aren't describable by the "usual" solutions of the equations. Of course, Maxwell's equations work wonderfully in all situations I've ever heard of (no concession to the "Electric Universe" wackos!), so perhaps nature, for some reason, won't allow other families of solutions to make themselves known on any scale I know of.

    1. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by mrops · · Score: 1

      Whooooosh....

    2. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, what he said :(

      -Just another physics pwned Slashdotter.

    3. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      no concession to the "Electric Universe" wackos!

      While there are undoubtedly wackos out there, it's important not to be too absolute and dogmatic about unsubstantiated explanations for physical phenomena, because wackoness is always judged relative to current models rather than relative to the full but unknowable truth.

      All it takes to turn a wacko into an annoying "I told you so" is some physicist doing some lateral thinking and coming out with a new theory or an extension to a current one which just turns out to be correct. And theoretical physicists have a habit of doing that.

      While the majority of wackos are inevitably going to be wrong, a few are just as inevitably going to be right. Let the scientific method decide.

    4. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > The (slashdot) summary really does miss some of the key points, and emphasize the
      > "fusion containment" aspect, which I doubt anyone takes seriously as a use of this.
      > ...
      > However, homotopy groups (if I understand it correctly) say that there may be other
      > solutions to such equations (in nonlinear/dispersive media)...

      Nonlinear/dispersive media such as, for example, plasmas?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by Alsee · · Score: 1

      The Electric Universe....
      because Creationists need someone to mock on science.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Take, as an example the Aristotle's "Luminiferous Ether" which was viable, then crazy after MichelsonMorley, and now - depending on the next 6 months at CERN, very similar concepts may not sound so crazy any more if physicists can observe Higgs... leading to a pervasive field in the universe that creates mass (not light... which the original idea was used to explain), but nonetheless kind of sort of very much like the (a)ether ideas.

    7. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're actually using Maxwell-HEAVISIDE equations all over the world after Oliver Heaviside rewrote Maxwell's original equations from quaternion notation into a much simpler vector notation.. throwing out some interesting stuff along the way.

      Oh regarding those Electric Universe 'wackos':

      You do realize that you're also calling a winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics a wacko, right?

      http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1970/alfven-bio.html

      And so far their successful predictions should at least be called _interesting_ and not 'wacko' for anyone who follows the scientific approach with components like theory, predictions, verification, modification etc.

      http://thunderbolts.info/predictions.htm

      While the ideas of plasma cosmology seem radical. At this point to me they don't seem any more radical than the ideas put forth by standard cosmologists of multiple universes, dark matter, multiple dimensions, black holes, neutron stars spinning from 1.4ms(!!) to thirty seconds, strange matter, dark energy, etc..

    8. Re:It's just cool (though maybe unrealistic)! by spectecjr · · Score: 1

      We're actually using Maxwell-HEAVISIDE equations all over the world after Oliver Heaviside rewrote Maxwell's original equations from quaternion notation into a much simpler vector notation.. throwing out some interesting stuff along the way

      What interesting stuff was thrown out? I once spent a weekend comparing both, and as far as I can tell they're directly equivalent.

      (I was looking to see if there was a term thrown away by mistake ... doesn't look like it)

      --
      Coming soon - pyrogyra
  9. Ok, questions by Marrow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. How do you bend light without passing it through matter or using a grav field that will crush the experiment?

    2. If they can bend light, why are we using electron beams for crt's?

    3. If you could build loops of light can they be modulated to store information and read it back again?

    1. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't know answer to 1 & 3. for 2: it probably requires lot of power..

    2. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're talking about bending light in plasma, ionized gas. If you have an idea to make a display device using this uninvented technology, well you can always spend the $800 for a patent application. As for point three, cool idea.

    3. Re:Ok, questions by mhall119 · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. How do you bend light without passing it through matter or using a grav field that will crush the experiment?

      Magnetic fields will bend light, which I believe is what this paper was based on.

      2. If they can bend light, why are we using electron beams for crt's?

      Because it's easier to bend a stream of electrons than a stream of photons.

      3. If you could build loops of light can they be modulated to store information and read it back again?

      I suppose, in theory, but it wouldn't be the most efficient means of data storage.

      The reason, I think (IANAP), that this could be important to fusion reactions is that a photon loop within a plasma could heat the plasma to fusion-levels without the plasma trying to burn it's way through the outer walls of the reaction chamber. Current torus designs, I think (IANA nuclear scientist), run the plasma around the inside of a magnetic field, like cars on a racetrack, to get the energies necessary for fusion. This causes that super-hot plasma to push against the outer part of the magnetic field, which has to be extremely strong to contain it.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    4. Re:Ok, questions by Marrow · · Score: 1

      I don't think that magnetic fields can bend light.

    5. Re:Ok, questions by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      Well, technically they'll bend space, just like gravity does, which will bend the light. However, magnetism is many orders of magnitude less effective at it.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    6. Re:Ok, questions by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Magnetic fields will bend light, which I believe is what this paper was based on.

      Not true.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    7. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no physicist, but I thought of this once, because light is electromagnetic, so I looked up how light works and what I found indicated it wasn't possible.

      If I remember correctly, I came to this conclusion because light waves "twist" as they go through space, and as a result, one would have to change their electromegnet's polarity at the same speed as the frequency of the light, and on top of that you'd have to know the state of the light coming in or you'd be out of sync and bend it in the wrong direction.

      In the end I decided that the best you could hope to accomplish was to disperse a concentrated light beam in random directions.

      But like I said, I'm no physicist. But in theory I'm pretty sure a magnetic field should affect a beam of light. It's just a matter of in what way and if we can control it.

    8. Re:Ok, questions by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading about the very minuscule distortions of space-time that are produce around pulsars and other cosmological objects with very intense magnetic fields.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    9. Re:Ok, questions by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Magnetic fields don't bend space. At least not the way you're thinking. In string theory there's the possibility that magnetic and electric forces can be described as geometrical distortions of some of the EXTRA dimensions, but not the three (or four) we're used to.

      Light in free space completely ignores magnetic and electric fields, for all intents and purposes. If you want to get technical, magnetic and electric fields, since they carry energy, do gravitate, but VERY slightly. You'd need a truly huge field (as in cosmically huge, not really big junkyard magnet huge) to have any effect worth worrying about. Also, quantum mechanics predicts that light waves interact very slightly. It's measurable, but very small, and doesn't really result in bending of light beams.

    10. Re:Ok, questions by sedm1143 · · Score: 1

      Light is composed (in the particle picture at least) of photons which are neutrally charged particles. As such they are not affected by magnetic fields (which only affect charges MOVING in said magnetic field), outside of weird scenarios like a couple of people above have mentioned.

    11. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I remember correctly, I came to this conclusion because light waves "twist" as they go through space, and as a result, one would have to change their electromegnet's polarity at the same speed as the frequency of the light, and on top of that you'd have to know the state of the light coming in or you'd be out of sync and bend it in the wrong direction.

      So you'd need a predictable frequency and phase...

      Like a laser? :P

    12. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or you can setup your, same frequency, light sources so they can act as the field themselves. Now that's some sleek elien science!

    13. Re:Ok, questions by mako1138 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The reason, I think (IANAP), that this could be important to fusion reactions is that a photon loop within a plasma could heat the plasma to fusion-levels without the plasma trying to burn it's way through the outer walls of the reaction chamber. Current torus designs, I think (IANA nuclear scientist), run the plasma around the inside of a magnetic field, like cars on a racetrack, to get the energies necessary for fusion. This causes that super-hot plasma to push against the outer part of the magnetic field, which has to be extremely strong to contain it.

      Not quite. In a tokamak, the plasma isn't accelerated around the torus to heat it. The basic method is ohmic, or resistive heating, where a current is induced in the plasma with magnetic fields. The current across the plasma resistance generates heat. This is kinda like your concept, but not exactly.

      Ohmic heating is typically insufficient for reaching fusion energies. The other methods of heating rely on direct energy injection, either through RF or neutral ion beams.

      Regarding containment, the magnetic field in a torus is not like a hard wall; it only presents a permeable barrier that particles are still able to diffuse across. If you turn up the magnetic field, you slow down the diffusion, but turn it up too high and you risk plasma instabilities. The key is to control the energy leakage to a point where enough energy stays in the plasma long enough to sustain the reaction.

      I haven't read this new paper yet, so I can't comment on its applications to fusion.

    14. Re:Ok, questions by drerwk · · Score: 1

      ...around pulsars and other cosmological objects with very intense magnetic fields...

      Given that the question you answered required not crushing the experiment, and presumably having to do with the terrestrial use of the field for fusion, the cosmological do not count...
      But in complete seriocity, post a reference. I think you may be right, and it may have to do with a field so strong that the extreme vacuum energy results in non-linear propagation of the electric field. But Maxwell is linear and would not allow, if I understand correctly.

    15. Re:Ok, questions by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      I remember is working in pretty much the same was a gravity according to relativity theory, not that the attractive properties of magnetism were distorting space-time, but the extreme amount of it did. This was nearly a decade ago, though, and I haven't been able to find anything on the internet that backs it up. Perhaps it was just an article in a physics magazine, and not something that was actually proven or observed.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    16. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps, but that doesn't address the problem of light's frequency being near the terrahertz range. I don't think it's possible to adjust an electromagnet trillions of times a second.

    17. Re:Ok, questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're not a physicist. I can tell. It's because magnetic fields will *not* bend light to any degree measurable at the macroscopic level, not by themselves. Please, somebody, drop the informative rating on the above comment-they're wrong!

    18. Re:Ok, questions by ntipouan · · Score: 1

      Q to 1.

      How can you use a gravitational field in any
      experiment? oO

      That is, if you don't mean the field of Earth,
      from which we can't really shield anything
      in our experiments totally (or can we?).

      --
      deltaS>=0 (c.s.)
    19. Re:Ok, questions by Karma+Bandit · · Score: 1

      Magnetic fields will bend light, which I believe is what this paper was based on.

      That's not true. Maxwell's equations are linear, meaning that they obey superposition. So, the light you are trying to bend and any additional magnetic fields will just pass right through each other.

    20. Re:Ok, questions by Karma+Bandit · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what the parent was trying to say, as I read it.

  10. Dr. Octavius? by MikeUW · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm pretty sure this was already covered in Spiderman 3 - hopefully things turn out better this time around.

    1. Re:Dr. Octavius? by Lord+Fury · · Score: 3, Funny

      Doc Oc was Spiderman 2. The villain in Spiderman 3 was conforming to societal pressures, security guards outside of Hot Topic, and running out of mascara and hair spray.

  11. Subscription required?? by linhares · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These science publishers are as evil or worse than the RIAA/MPAA with this paywall BS. To paraphrase, science is too important to be left to those that can pay 40 bucks per paper. I can't understand why Google, who wants to "organize the world's information", has not done anything to prevent the world's most valuable information from being inaccessible.

    1. Re:Subscription required?? by boto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Google has already done it: the researchers just need to make their papers publicly available *anywhere* on the Web, and you'll find the articles on Google Search and Google Scholar Search.

      Google can't do much else if the authors aren't interested in making their works openly acessible.

    2. Re:Subscription required?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, they could zero the pagerank on sites that show different stuff to googlebot vs ordinary mortals.

    3. Re:Subscription required?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Dude, you'll also need a PhD to understand the science so make sure you get that free PhD. tuition from Google. Look at it this way, at least you're saved the embarrassment of reading a paper you will not understand.

    4. Re:Subscription required?? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most journals make you transfer copyright to them. Making your paper available is then illegal.

      It's changing, faster and faster. More journals are opening their archives after one or two years.

      Of course, you can always go to a library and get a paper for free. Even the local library in the town of 800 people I grew up in had a borrowing agreement with more than one university library.

    5. Re:Subscription required?? by boto · · Score: 1

      Most journals make you transfer copyright to them. Making your paper available is then illegal.

      That's pure evil. Why do people keep submitting material to them? Journals that do that should lose their credibility.

      It's changing, faster and faster.

      I hope you are right.

    6. Re:Subscription required?? by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, they could zero the pagerank on sites that show different stuff to googlebot vs ordinary mortals.

      If THAT'S all it is, then set your user agent to "Googlebot/2.1 (+http://www.google.com/bot.html)" and say fuck 'em. But you're right, Google should actively resist this sort of double standard because it's a detriment to the usefulness of the search engine. It doesn't matter how many great results you get with a search engine if you can't actually access the information in those results.

      You know, I still don't understand why there is even such a thing as a user agent string. That is, I can see why i.e. Microsoft would want such a thing but I do not see any way that it's in the interests of users. If we really want standards and we really want openness, having no way for a Web server to determine what the browser is can only advance this goal. Then the only concern is whether that browser is standards-compliant.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    7. Re:Subscription required?? by causality · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most journals make you transfer copyright to them. Making your paper available is then illegal.

      That's pure evil. Why do people keep submitting material to them? Journals that do that should lose their credibility.

      It's changing, faster and faster.

      I hope you are right.

      How about this: if you received any (one penny or more) public grants or public funds to perform your research, then that research must be available to the public free of charge. If you are wealthy and want to entirely fund your own research (for example), then you may do whatever you like with the results. The part that I consider bullshit is the idea that tax dollars are taken from me by force or threat of force under a confiscatory tax system and then I am denied access to what this money is purchasing.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    8. Re:Subscription required?? by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      And the stated goal of these journals: to make research -more- available.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    9. Re:Subscription required?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about having grants that pay the entire costs of publishing? I see no reason why a researcher should be required to pay out of pocket to publish research funded by the taxpayer. And no, putting a PDF online is not publishing.

    10. Re:Subscription required?? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Because up until quite recently that was a reasonable system. It is in your interest for the journal you submit to to remain solvent.

      The Internet has changed things, and the journal industry is trying to figure out how to deal with it. Like any big industry, they're pretty slow at it. They ARE figuring it out though. Science releases freely any article older than a year, and there are open access journals springing up all over the place. One of the problems that has yet to be worked out is that the open access journals often charge the paper author for publication, which is even worse for underfunded labs.

      Another factor is that most of the major journals have been busy digitizing their archives. That's a big undertaking (some of them have archives going back hundreds of years). It's expensive. The last five years of journal subscriptions can be seen as subsidizing that process.

    11. Re:Subscription required?? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      In the US publicly funded research does have to be freely available after some period of time.

      Just like anything, the issue is a little more complex than "why don't you just publish it yourself on the Internet?" For an entrenched industry the journal publishers actually seem to be responding to reality fairly well. For a comparison point, see the RIAA.

      You are not denied access. ANY library should be able to get you a copy, for free (or possibly the cost of a library card), of any article you like. It might take up to a week. The $40 or whatever stupid fee the journal charges on their web site is purely for the convenience of being able to get the PDF without moving from your couch or picking up a phone.

      How would you suggest publication costs be handled? There are some, even on the web. Don't forget peer review. Security. Archives. Should the government go into the journal publishing business? Would that not require taking more tax dollars from you by force?

    12. Re:Subscription required?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      welcome to academia, now pay up chumps.
      We got PloS.org now thats a start i guess...

    13. Re:Subscription required?? by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      You know, I still don't understand why there is even such a thing as a user agent string. That is, I can see why i.e. Microsoft would want such a thing but I do not see any way that it's in the interests of users. If we really want standards and we really want openness, having no way for a Web server to determine what the browser is can only advance this goal. Then the only concern is whether that browser is standards-compliant.

      At the time of writing, this only achieves 3, Insightful? Come on mods, be a little more generous...

    14. Re:Subscription required?? by F�an�ro · · Score: 1

      If THAT'S all it is, then set your user agent to "Googlebot/2.1 (+http://www.google.com/bot.html)" and say fuck 'em.

      That trick has long since stopped working. All these subscription sites with fake google result have switched to detecting the googlebot by IP.

    15. Re:Subscription required?? by ChameleonDave · · Score: 1

      If we really want standards and we really want openness, having no way for a Web server to determine what the browser is can only advance this goal. Then the only concern is whether that browser is standards-compliant.

      Not true. The only way to provide valid XHTML is to serve it as text/html to IE and application/xhtml+xml to modern browsers.

    16. Re:Subscription required?? by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1

      Costs?

      Peer review is currently free.

      Bandwidth costs are minimal, Read tenths of a cent.

      Security, Archiving is bet not left to private firms with no ongoing interest in the information.

      Personally, I think there should be a number of world wide repositories for all papers. The cost of each country/corporation hosting one would be minimal.

      What should be charged for is the peer review. You can get any paper for free but if you want a critique of it you have to pay. But no paper can include peer review information. All papers must come from public sources.

      Very quickly the reviewers would organize and there would be no more publishers of papers but rather hosting of reviewers.

    17. Re:Subscription required?? by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1

      And the unstated goal of any organization is to remain alive at all costs.

    18. Re:Subscription required?? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      Pretty much everyone who can understand the paper can get it for much less than $40. They either have a subscription to the journal, or they have ready access to a library with it, where they can photocopy it for cheap.

    19. Re:Subscription required?? by Matti-han · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think there should be a number of world wide repositories for all papers. The cost of each country/corporation hosting one would be minimal.

      Try here and for a nice talk describing the goals and ideals of the IA go here.

    20. Re:Subscription required?? by Keeper+Of+Keys · · Score: 1

      putting a PDF online is not publishing.

      Hm, perhaps not, but it is infinitely better than not making it available at all. In fact, it would seem that to you "publishing" means making available to a limited number of people (who can get hold of the printed copy) rather than everybody.

    21. Re:Subscription required?? by arktemplar · · Score: 1

      PrePrints

      IEEE lets you put preprints up on your site. It's one of those things that let students like me tell the world I've been accepted for publication without having to wait for ages till they actually do publish. I'm not so sure about the other journals though.

      --
      blog plug -> The Darker Side of Light
    22. Re:Subscription required?? by Mattman723 · · Score: 1

      Thank god for campus internet

    23. Re:Subscription required?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I still don't understand why there is even such a thing as a user agent string... having no way for a Web server to determine what the browser is can only advance this goal. Then the only concern is whether that browser is standards-compliant.

      Think WAP sites, and other, intentionally limited ability browsers.

  12. This is one step closer to lightsabers, right? by jmccarthy · · Score: 1

    Because I don't need flying cars. I want Jedi weaponry in my lifetime.

  13. Don't cross the streams by symbolset · · Score: 4, Funny

    That is all.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  14. I can make knots too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pass me some fiber optic line and I'll make you one.

  15. Maxwell's Equations? by Snowtred · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its been awhile since I've had anything with Vector Calculus, but doesn't a stable loop of light violate Maxwell's Equations in some way? Divergence of B = 0, Div of E = p/epsilon, Curl of E = dB/dt. Seems like a stable knot might not fit with that. Anyone more math savvy know?

    1. Re:Maxwell's Equations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The basic vector form of Maxwell's equations rely on the materials being linear. These solutions require non-linear materials and a more general formulation of the equations.

    2. Re:Maxwell's Equations? by shrikel · · Score: 1
      Easy. They're using New Math.

      ...a relatively new solution to Maxwell's equations...

      --
      Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
  16. Ball Lightning? by PeterJFraser · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it is possible it probably appears in nature.

  17. Scientific papers by The+Creator · · Score: 1

    Why aren't they simply published on the internet, instead of some silly place that asks $18 for a pdf?

    --

    FRA: STFU GTFO
    1. Re:Scientific papers by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Because somebody has to manage things such as peer review and maintaining stable, reliable, long term archives.

      Have you noticed that stuff "published on the Internet" can be unreliable?

      $18 is ridiculous for one article. If you're really interested you should be able to get it free through any library.

    2. Re:Scientific papers by jd · · Score: 1

      More than a few are pre-published for free, but aren't peer-reviewed and can potentially therefore deviate substantially from what is actually published. Since an entire science journal doesn't usually cost $18, except perhaps for something truly arcane, and as most scientists can't afford to buy their own journals, relying on the University library to do it for them, the odds are extremely high that you'll find a cheaper version somewhere.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:Scientific papers by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The $18 is a "laughing price" ; they don't want anyone to pay them $18 to read one article. What they (Nature Publishing Group) want you, and lots of others, to do is pay approximately £145 (whatever that is in your currency) for a year-long subscription to the magazine (50 or 51 editions) plus unlimited access to their archives. It is, after all, a magazine, and while it's raw content is given to it by authors, it still has real costs in organising peer review, typesetting (ever tried laying out a page that's going to press? It's demanding work), producing editorial content, plus of course, printing.

      You might disagree ; I've voted with my wallet on several occasions and been a subscriber for several years (alternating with Science, BTW). The ink-on-paper copies pile up, hugely. I'm not a subscriber at the moment because I'm working on another project, and I'll look again at the idea in a couple of years.

      If you're really interested you should be able to get it free through any library.

      You can. Go down the road here to the Central Library (next to the theatre ; opposite the Wallace Monument), pick it off the shelf, and then pay about £0.40 to get the photocopier to work. (Nature is a reference journal - you can't book it out of that library.) Alternatively, you can go down to the University Library and pay your £60 annual fee (discounted to £30 if you're a graduate of one of Aberdeen's University institutions) to read it off the shelf there and to borrow volumes of bound editions of Nature from the stacks. The photocopiers are a bit better and noticeably cheaper.

      Contrary to popular opinion, information is not free now, and never has been. Individual commentators on SlashDot may have been insulated from such costs until now, but that doesn't mean that they're not real costs.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  18. Commercially Awesome? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great, all we need is another method to tie knots. Imagine if they made something to untie knots with light! Now that would be commercially viable! XD

  19. tying the knot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like light, I'm just not sure if I'm ready for that kind of commitment.

  20. Magnets do not bend light - in a vacuum by drerwk · · Score: 1

    Were do you get that magnetic fields bend light? Not with Maxwell, not in a vacuum. Any reference to the contrary will be read!

    1. Re:Magnets do not bend light - in a vacuum by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      This isn't where I originally read this, but it's all I could find online:

      http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1347.html

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
  21. how the homotopy works? by hypomorph · · Score: 1

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a basic understanding of homotopy.

    I guess you view a solution as a certain kind of map on R^3 that obeys Maxwell's equations and then use homotopy to deform one map into another, all the while respecting Maxwell. Then, one element of the homotopy group would correspond to one family of solutions which may all be transformed one into another via homotopy. Knowledge about the group formed (which has to come from the kind of topological space that Maxwell's equations define) must imply the existence of other families of solutions (e.g., multiplying two known solutions together in the homotopy group to get a new one).

    What I'd like to know is how do Maxwell's equations define the topology on the image of the solution maps. Any help?

    --
    Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something. --Thomas A. Edison
    1. Re:how the homotopy works? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can state Maxwell's equations over any manifold. I think what he was getting at was that the global solutions to Maxwell's equations are to some extent controlled by the topology of the manifold, similar to how Hodge cohomology groups control solutions to Laplace's equation.

      In the abstract however there was no mention of homotopy. Apparently they found a way to get the magnetic field lines to trace out the Hopf fibration, which decomposes R^3 plus a point into a collection of interlocking loops. It's possible that the GP brought up homotopy because the calculation of homotopy groups of spheres is the main application of the Hopf fibration.

  22. Full Text (thanks to MIT) by yfarjoun · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately the figures, equations, and tables came out as "Unfortunately we are unable to provide accessible alternative text for this. If you require assistance to access this image, or to obtain a text description, please contact npg@nature.com".....if someone can suggest where I should upload the PDF, I'd do that too.

    ======

    Letter

    Nature Physics 4, 716 - 720 (2008)
    Published online: 31 August 2008 | doi:10.1038/nphys1056

    Linked and knotted beams of light

    William T. M. Irvine1,2 & Dirk Bouwmeester2,3

    Abstract

    Maxwell's equations allow for curious solutions characterized by the property that all electric and magnetic field lines are closed loops with any two electric (or magnetic) field lines linked. These little-known solutions, constructed by Rañada1, are based on the Hopf fibration. Here we analyse their physical properties to investigate how they can be experimentally realized. We study their time evolution and uncover, through a decomposition into a spectrum of spherical harmonics, a remarkably simple representation. Using this representation, first, a connection is established to the Chandrasekharâ"Kendall curl eigenstates2, which are of broad importance in plasma physics and fluid dynamics. Second, we show how a new class of knotted beams of light can be derived, and third, we show that approximate knots of light may be generated using tightly focused circularly polarized laser beams. We predict theoretical extensions and potential applications, in fields ranging from fluid dynamics, topological optical solitons and particle trapping to cold atomic gases and plasma confinement.
    Introduction

    The concept of field lines whose tangents are the electric or magnetic field is typically used to visualize static solutions of Maxwell's equations. Propagating solutions often have simple field-line structures and so are not usually described in terms of field lines. In the present work, we study a propagating field whose defining and most striking property is the topological structure of its electric and magnetic field lines.

    An intriguing configuration for field lines is to be linked and/or knotted. Two closed field lines c1(tau), c2(tau) are linked if they have non-vanishing Gauss linking integral3, 4, 5, 6,

    Unfortunately we are unable to provide accessible alternative text for this. If you require assistance to access this image, or to obtain a text description, please contact npg@nature.com

    whereas for a single field line c(tau) the self-linking number, L(c,c), is a measure of knottedness. The linking integral L can also be computed visually by projecting the field lines onto a plane and subsequently counting the crossings in an oriented way3. For example, the lines in Fig. 1a have linking number 1, but do not form a knot, whereas the blue and orange field lines in Fig. 4 below are knotted and linked to each other. In the case of magnetic or electric fields, averaging the linking integral over all field-line pairs together with the self-linking number over all field lines gives rise to the magnetic and electric helicities4, 5:

    Unfortunately we are unable to provide accessible alternative text for this. If you require assistance to access this image, or to obtain a text description, please contact npg@nature.com

    where B:=nablatimesA and E:=nablatimesC in free space.
    Figure 1: Construction of the Hopf fibration.
    Figure 1 : Construction of the Hopf fibration.

    aâ"c, Left column: A torus can be constructed out of circles (fibres) in such a way that no two circles cross and each circle is linked to every other one. a,b, Each circle in such a configuration wraps once around each circumference of the torus. c, By nesting such tori into one another, the whole of three dimensional space, including the point at Unfortunately we are unable to provide accessible alternative text for this. If you require assistance to access this image, or to obtain a text description, please contact npg@nature.com (U

    1. Re:Full Text (thanks to MIT) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Posting as AC to protect moderation...)
      You can upload the PDF for free (and link to a javascript viewer) at PDFMeNot.

    2. Re:Full Text (thanks to MIT) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do believe this constitutes copyright infringement.

  23. The real question... by longacre · · Score: 1

    When will Air Jordans have light-based shoelaces?

  24. Maxwell's equations by Doc+Hoss · · Score: 0

    For those not in the know with Maxwell's equations, here's the Wikipedia for them.

  25. a string?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Light propagates so it is not a true loop, but more like the idea of a vibrating string from string theory. Does this mean nature mimics its self from small scale to large scale since the solar system is similar to an atom? Probably not, but it is a nice idea to think about.

  26. Ball lightning? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Stable loops of light in plasma. I wonder if this might be related to ball lightning?

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  27. Annular Fusion, as seen in "Infinite Jest"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The novel "Infinite Jest" mentioned something called annular fusion, which involved optics somehow. This article involves optics (in a sense) and fusion. Was David Foster Wallace about twelve years ahead of this curve?

  28. You don't know? by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 1

    You know, I still don't understand why there is even such a thing as a user agent string.

    Go be enlightened; there's no excuse not to be.

    There's no reason not to have a user agent header, just as there's no reason not to have a 'Server' header. User agent sniffing, on the other hand, is one of the many, many, many things that we have because the internet is an amalgamation of non-standardized crap. Sites do it because they can't just send standards-compliant data, because browsers don't all render it the same. (See: box model bug.) You can't say "fuck those people", because they're the vast majority of the internet (at least, until quite recently); if you're making a public-facing website, to almost everyone who comes there, your site is broken. This is, needless to say, not an option if you want visitors.

    The fundamental problem is that writing standards-breaking browsers doesn't come back to bite the authors of said browsers; they have no incentive not to do it, and in fact, if they're being anticompetitive, they have an incentive to make it even worse.

    It's rather miraculous that the internet works at all.

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
    1. Re:You don't know? by Fatalis · · Score: 1

      Sites do it because they can't just send standards-compliant data, because browsers don't all render it the same.

      no, they do it because the webmasters are incompetent. there are more reliable ways to target different rendering engines (for instance, conditional comments for Trident) than UA sniffing

      --
      Deus est fatalis
  29. Light Knots = Light Saber? by nano_sprite · · Score: 1

    Let's cut to the important question... Can this tech be applied to make better light saber toys??

  30. Fusion application? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, fusion. There are certain invariant physical constants in the universe:

    1. No matter your temporal coordinates, you are always 50 years away from usable fusion power.

    2. The current version of any Microsoft Office product always takes the same amount of time to load.