City Sues To Prevent Linking To Its Website

Mike writes "In what appears to be a first-of-its-kind case, the Sheboygan city attorney ordered Jennifer Reisinger to remove a link to the city's police department from her Web site. The city went further, she claims, launching a criminal investigation of her for linking to the department on one of her sites, and in response she's suing the mayor and the city. 'The mayor decided to use his office to get back at Jennifer for her efforts in the recall and picked this to do it,' said her attorney, Paul Bucher. It appears this will go to court, and the question will be can a city (or any business or Web property) stop people from posting a link to its site?"

Comments

Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[tjstork]

In November, the city withdrew its demand that Reisinger not link to city government sites.

SO um, what's the issue?

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Rary]

In November, the city withdrew its demand that Reisinger not link to city government sites.

SO um, what's the issue?

Not only that, but the headline says that the city is suing the woman, but both the article and the summary state that the woman is suing the city. Did the editor even read the summary?

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[TubeSteak]

In November, the city withdrew its demand that Reisinger not link to city government sites.

SO um, what's the issue?

The problem is that the city issued a cease and desist order in the first place.
Just because they withdrew it doesn't change the fact that they engaged in an abuse of process.

Good on Reisinger for counter-suing and hopefully establishing some case law on the matter.

Example: In November, the **AA withdrew its cease and desist order that Slashdot not link to bittorrent sites.
Still don't see the issue?

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[digitalunity]

Intimidation to cause censorship. The city attempted to hinder her 1st amendment rights. She fought back and the city backed down, but that doesn't make what they did right.

The city needs to be made an example of in the court of law for all to see so as to dissuade others from trying the same thing.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Anonymous Coward]

she seems to be quite racist (probably exactly the sort of McCain voting lunatic who is going to condemn us to four more years):

Calling people who disagree with your political views "lunatics" isn't racist. But it sure is bigoted, arrogant, and insulting to people who have mental problems.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[PunkOfLinux]

I defend not what you say, but your right to say it. Go eat the earth flag.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[hedwards]

No, the statute of limitations is probably going to be at least 2 years and possibly 3. It would even be legitimate to file the suit right before the deadline.

In most civilized countries one doesn't have to rush out immediately to file suit, people are generally able to try to fix the problem or to mull things over. November was only 10 months ago. She'd likely have at least 14 more to file.

Otherwise, I have no idea what you're getting at.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[theNetImp]

oh be quiet you lunatic ;-)

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Chris Rhodes]

Maybe the city gets charged for extra bandwidth, and someone wants to slashdot their police department site as revenge?

It wouldn't be the first time someone used slashdot as a dos tool, IIRC

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[lysergic.acid]

a woman posts a link to a municipal government website, so the mayor sends her a cease-and-desist letter and then launches a police investigation on her to intimidate the woman and coerce her into removing the link. and you see nothing wrong here?

it doesn't matter that the city withdrew its demand after the lawsuit was filed (or possibly after the media broke the story). the point is that government officials should not be bullying political dissidents like this--especially not in concert with the police department.

the woman in this story was smart enough to contact a lawyer and fight back, but most people would probably be intimidated and just back down. this story should be reported if only so others know that such demands have no legal basis.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Malevolyn]

Go eat the earth flag.

Not the one made out of skin, of course.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Khyber]

Excessive? In a case like this the maximum is $500,000 per charge. Asking for half of that is not excessive, especially when it comes to the government stepping on a citizen's 1st Amendment rights.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Chris Rhodes]

To root your windows box and look for child porn? I jest, it is probably because the tool used to create the flash banner was taught to the graphic designer in his six month course where he/she got a two-year degree in computer science. Way easier than all that markup and JavaScript - I mean, have you ever tried to figure out a heirarchical data structure?

Sheesh, drag 'n drop is way superior to thinking. Or having to work with one of those icky 'coders' who complains if you change your image dimensions halfway through the project.

Flash is awesome!

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[TeacherOfHeroes]

If /. wants to pontificate about censorship they should do it in the cause of a more upright citizen.

Isn't the whole point of free speech that people should be free to say what they'd like especially when others find it distastful or inappropriate?

Its not really freedom if you're only allowed to say tasteful things, is it?

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[oldhack]

...Did the editor even read the summary?

"editor", eh?! You'll learn soon, grasshopper.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[RMB2]

I'm sorry, citizens have the "responsibility" of acting "responsibly"? And whom exactly is in charge of the subjective definition of "responsibly"?

Additionally, you earn +0 Karma for misinterpreting the First Amendment. A very simple search would tell you that
1) The Supreme Court decision (Schenck v. United States in 1919) only described falsely shouting fire in a theater, and
2)

Schenck was later limited by Brandenburg v. Ohio, which ruled that speech could only be banned when it was directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot), the test which remains until this day.

You might notice that no mention is made of "responsible" action. I, for one, find the lack of such subjectivity to be a good thing.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Repossessed]

you can't shout out "FIRE" and cause a panic

Why do people constantly use an argument meant to typify speech which leads to violence, injury and destruction, when attacking speech which does no such thing?

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Hal_Porter]

From http://www.bratcitywebdesign.com/

Sheboygan Police department sued Jennifer Reisinger when she added a link to them on her website

This post should be indexed by Google quite soon ;-)

Mod me up if you support FREEDOM and oppose FASCISM!!!11

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Longwalker-MGO]

Also, from TFA she seems to be quite racist (probably exactly the sort of McCain voting lunatic who is going to condemn us to four more years If /. wants to pontificate about censorship they should do it in the cause of a more upright citizen.

Talk about an upright citizen!!! Why is it every time someone does not toe the liberal line of allowing ILLEGAL aliens into this country they are labelled racist??? If you do not like the law, do something about and get the law changed. Otherwise stop calling everyone a racist just because they dont agree with your particular point of view.

People are allowed to disagree with you and want our laws upheld.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[stephanruby]

a woman posts a link to a municipal government website, so the mayor sends her a cease-and-desist letter and then launches a police investigation on her to intimidate the woman and coerce her into removing the link. and you see nothing wrong here?

I think I found her site, and her site is actually worse than the police department's web site (if you can believe it). It kept on making my firefox crash, the only way I could see it was with Internet Explorer. Otherwise, her site is pretty interesting content-wise, it's no wonder the city hates her guts.

[Warning: use IE to open, not firefox] http://sheboyganshenanigans.com/?cat=6

And also, I found another site that dared linking to the Sheboygan PD.

http://www.ratemycop.com/index.php?st=WI&dept=8376 (ah, the wonders of the internet)

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Tenebrousedge]

That makes you a maverick, not a lunatic.

You and a hundred fifty million other people.

Okay, so that was a joke: there aren't a hundred fifty million people that vote in this country.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[Chineseyes]

Call someone a mick or a wetback, and no one bats an eyelash. Spick, chink, kike, pretty much the same, but generally not good to drop in polite company. But use any of the assorted names for black people, and watch the brains of everyone in the room reboot as they look around in a panic to see if any of "them" heard you.

Where is it that you live that people don't cringe in panic at any of those words? Calling someone any of those terms in NYC will likely result in you getting your ass kicked.

Re:Did the editor read the last paragraph?

[RingDev]

Keep in mind though, this is white-bread Wisconsin. A few anecdotes for ya.

Over a decade ago I was in boot camp in San Diego. We had one guy in our platoon who didn't pull his own weight. He was lazy, lacked motivation, and was about as bright as a door stop. Field days in particular, he would sit on his foot locker while everyone else was working. One morning, another recruit, fed up with the guy's lack of effort called him a porch monkey and told him to get off his ass. Being from white-bread Wisconsin, I just assumed he was calling the guy lazy, I mean, we have people who sit around on their porches sucking up unemployment insurance and welfare in Wisconsin, and in the town I grew up in, where we had 4 black families out of a pop of 7k, the vast majority of the 'porch monkeys' were most definitely white. I was a little surprised to see the recruit who said it get raked over the coals for it by the DI's.

Just two weeks ago, some republican senator referred to the Obamas as "Uppity". That's another term, being from white-bread Wisconsin, I was familiar with. It's used to describe someone who is behaving not of their social/economic class. It's crass and rude, but I had never heard of it being referred to as a racially charged word. But apparently, it is. Who knew?

I've traveled around the world, and at every stop there are differences in language, social interactions, and social expectations. What is clearly a racial term to one person can be just another insult to a different person. So while I haven't read the TFA or websites, bear in mind that not everyone has the same experiences as you.

-Rick

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me

[multisync]

If you don't want people to find your website, don't register a domain. Once you do, it's public knowledge. Printing the URL of the city's website is no worse than printing the premiere's mugshot when he gets busted for DUI. (Sorry, OT political commentary, but it seemed a good example).

Re:Pretty cut and dry if you ask me

[uvajed_ekil]

It makes me laugh when I see people smiling in mugshots. If if you didn't do it (right...), are you happy about being arrested and booked?

ridiculous

[CraniumDesigns]

if a site is public, how could it EVER be illegal to link to it? i don't see this working out for the city. morons.

don't do what?

[JLennox]

oh, this.

Re:don't do what?

[The Ancients]

Have you looked at the code and graphics on that site?

It should be illegal to link to it.

Re:don't do what?

[ArsonSmith]

I did my civic duty and clicked every link on their sidebar.

Re:don't do what?

[Frosty Piss]

Have you looked at the code and graphics on that site? It should be illegal to link to it.

I wonder why?

meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0"

This is even a question?

[bigstrat2003]

the question will be can a city (or any business or Web property) stop people from posting a link to its site?

The answer is (or damn well better be) no. This is completely obvious. When you put something up on the Web without a form of access control (meaning logging in, not meaning "I only give out the address to certain people"), it's public every bit as much as if you put an ad in the newspaper. Linking to your site is no different than me saying, "Hey, check out this newspaper ad CmdrTaco put in, it's really cool!".

Even if that weren't the case (and it very much is), this is a government web site. They have no right to keep anyone out at all. I don't know what the city was thinking, but they have no ground to stand on here. Maybe they're hoping they'll get a really clueless or corrupt judge, I dunno.

Happened in Finland in 2001, too

[Anonymous Coward]

Similar case. Someone linked to police website in 2001, and police claimed that their domain name represents the police on the internet and thus linking to their site without permission was illegal. The police lost, ofcourse, but it's still ridiculous that there was even a fight about it. Finally the parlamentiary ombudsman had to take the case and rule that links are like literary references, and completely legal.

Then block her already

[Auckerman]

an a city (or any business or Web property) stop people from posting a link to its site?"

The cities sysadmin should be fired. Check the referrer, then redirect to the main page when "needed". A couple minutes set up time and *poof* no more "deep linking" from other sites.

Oye

[ohtani]

You know a organization knows what they're doing on the web when their landing page is titled NEW PAGE 1 and was made with FrontPage 5.0

Re:The bigger question... changing the legal syste

[Eskarel]

Don't get me wrong, there are lots of frivilous law suits out there, but how is this one?

A web designer created a web link to the main site of a public, government institution. The city then issued her with a cease and desist order and began a police investigaton againt this person. This is patently wrong, and is behaviour which needs to be discouraged.

The fact that they withdrew the order later is really beside the point. A police investigation when the person instigating it knows(and TFA pretty clearly shows he did know) that it is baseless and illegal is intimidation.

The fact that this woman may or may not have undesirable political and/or racist opinions doesn't really matter. It wouldn't even matter if she's the second coming of Hilter(queue Godwin), using the police to intimidate or harrass someone who hasn't done anything wrong is illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional, and saying "Oops we're sorry" when you get caught doesn't get you off the hook.

It would have been a slightly different situtation if she was attempting to incite violence, or using the link in some other non protected way, but there seems to be absolutely no indication that this is the case(I'm not entirely sure how you could incite violence against a web address in the first place).

She ought to sue, she ought to win, and the idiots who ordered this ought to be out on the street. The fact that's she appears to be a racist redneck fool doesn't change any of that.

sheboyganpolice.com

[Entropy98]

http://www.sheboyganpolice.com/

Sheboygan Police General Information:
Phone: 459-3333 / Email: spd@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Chief of Police / David E. Kirk
Phone: 459-3343 / Email: dkirk@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Deputy Chief of Police, Operations Division / Allen J. Sherven
Phone: 459-3343 / Email: asherven@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Captain of Criminal Investigation Unit / James A. Veeser
Phone: 459-3355 / Email: jveeser@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Shift Commanders / Phone: 459-3333
First Shift ( 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM ) Captain David A. Derus
Email: dderus@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Second Shift ( 3:00 PM - 11:00 PM ) Captain Stephen B. Cobb
Email: scobb@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Third Shift ( 11:00 PM - 7:00 AM ) Captain Bob V. Wallace
Email: bwallace@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Training / Resource Division / Lieutenant Michael Williams
Phone: 459-3190 / Email: mwilliams@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Administrative Services / Lieutenant Janet Reinfeldt
Phone: 459-0239 / Email: jreinfeldt@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Drug Unit / Lieutenant Kurt Brasser
Phone: 459-3999 / Email: kbrasser@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Traffic Section / Sergeant Thomas Tuszynski
Phone: 459-3352 / Email: ttuszynski@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Court Services Section / Lieutenant Janet Reinfeldt
Phone: 459-3353 / jreinfeldt@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Community Policing Unit
Lieutenant Jeffrey Johnston / Phone: 459-3338 / Email: johnston@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Officer John Winter / Phone: 459-3341 / Email: jwinter@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Officer Todd Priebe / Phone: 459-3341 / Email: tpriebe@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Street Crime Unit
Officer Kurt Zempel / Phone: 459-0234 / Email: kzempel@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Officer Brian Retzer / Phone: 459-0267 / Email: bretzer@ci.sheboygan.wi.us
Officer Paul Olsen / Phone: 459-3348 / Email: polsen@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Criminal Investigation Division / Phone: 459-3355
Detective Mark Kolosovsky / Email: mkolo@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

K-9 Unit / Officer Trisha Miller
Phone: 459-3333 / Email: tmiller@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

School Resource Officers
South High School / Officer Terry Meyer / Phone: 459-3706
Email: tmeyer@sheboygan.k12.wi.us
North High School / Officer Doug Hall / Phone: 803-7604
Email: dhall@sheboygan.k12.wi.us
Urban Middle School / Officer Patrick Leichtnam / Phone: 459-3959
Email: pleightnam@sheboygan.k12.wi.us
Farnsworth Middle School / Officer Eric Edson / Phone: 459-4083
Horace Mann Middle School / Officer Eric Edson / Phone: 459-3386
Email: eedson@sheboygan.k12.wi.us

Police Property Office / Julie Lamb
Phone: 459-3347 / Email: jlamb@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Administrative Assistant & Office Supervisor / Paula Haelfrisch
Phone: 459-3343 / Email: phaelfrisch@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Communications & Electronics Technician / Russell Schreiner
Phone: 459-3351 / Email: rschreiner@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Fleet Operations Mechanic / David Daniels
Phone: 459-3350 / Email: ddaniels@ci.sheboygan.wi.us

Web Site Administrator / Officer John Winter
Phone: 459-3341 / Email: jwinter@sheboygan.wi.us

Re:sheboyganpolice.com

[clickclickdrone]

>Web Site Administrator / Officer John Winter
>Phone: 459-3341 / Email: jwinter@sheboygan.wi.us
I'd have kept quiet about his role if I had this site to look after.

Re:sheboyganpolice.com

[Capt James McCarthy]

For some reason, I though it was some weird pr0n site: She-Boy-gangpolice.com

What can I say, it's still early here. I'll wake up soon.

Re:sheboyganpolice.com

[vidarh]

The obvious question is whether you were relieved or disappointed when you realized your mistake.

Well...

[Weaselmancer]

It used to be.

Re:The bigger question... changing the legal syste

[Anonymous Coward]

How about this: if you sue somebody and lose (or back out, etc.) then you pay the defendants lawyer's fees as well as your own.

How about this: No one ever sues large corporations again because if they lose they're going to be broke for the rest of their lives.

Re:"nolo mi tangere"?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are a real Latin grammar nazi, you should chisel the correction on your monitor.

but can't stop a Telco from suing it....

[freedom_india]

A city sues a single person to prevent him/her from linking to a public website, but keeps silent when a Telco sues it for providing free internet...
Guess cities are bullies like corporates.
Pick on the small guy.
I dearly, dearly hope the defendant not only prevails, but also countersues the City Mayor for Fraud, deliberate attempt to subvert justice, manslaughter (what the heck, file anyway), and personally report him to the FBI for corruption.
Counter Attack is the best form of defence.

You do realize who actually pays such suits?

[unassimilatible]

City governments do not have printing presses to churn out $20 bills to pay off lawsuits. This is taxpayer money, and as one of those taxpayers sick of property tax assessments and hearing how broke my city is - and as someone who has helped defend such lawsuits for my local city attorney's office - I can tell you first hand that city governments are far too free wheeling with other people's money when it comes to paying off lawsuits. It really is disgusting how they will settle suits rather than stand up and fight and risk taking any political positions.

We've got enough fiscal problems without you throwing around other people's money like it is free.

These city politicos look like dipwads, but how does giving this woman a cash windfall at taxpayer expense hurt them? Take my word for it, the *taxpayer* money the average city pays out on junk lawsuits is the real rights being trampled daily.

Re:You do realize who actually pays such suits?

[bigsteve@dstc]

You could say that the taxpayers deserve it for voting for such an obviously bad mayor. Or for taking so little interest in local politics that they couldn't be bothered to vote against him.

The mayor was acting on behalf of "the people", with the weight of the power bestowed on him by "the people". So, IMO, it is the "the people" who should ultimately take the responsibility for his abuse of power. If the courts can sanction the mayor personally, all well and good. If not, then responsibility again falls on "the people" for not electing people who will pass the laws to make that an option for the courts.

Re:You do realize who actually pays such suits?

[Lershac]

Where do you live that the mayor can have the city attorney try to stop you from exercising your 1st amendment rights? And then sic the police department on you to "investigate" you for linking to their website?

That is a pretty clear violation of your constitutional rights. This should be stomped on pretty hard!

No Legal Precedent?

[aero2600-5]

Regardless of who's suing who in this mess, there won't be any new precedent set about linking to a website. 2600 Magazine won a court case in 2001 when Ford Motor Company tried to stop 2600 from linking to their website. Not only that, but one of the original sites from the tussle is still up. Here is the original news announcement from 2600.

Aero

What really worries me

[clickclickdrone]

The mission statement on the website says:
We, the men and women of the Sheboygan Police Department, value:
* Human Life
* Accountability
etc.

Do they *really* need to state they value human life? Is there an assumption that the norm is to not care who dies? What sort of crazy department is that?

Re: whole point of free speech

[a_nonamiss]

That's the beauty of the ./ system, though. People are free to troll as much as they want, and the community at large is free to mod those people down so that they have less of a voice to spew their idiocy. Turn off -1 comments, and you'll miss 99% of the GNAA, Goatse or "FIRST!!" posts. Make too many of those posts, and your Karma will dictate that nobody will ever see any of your posts.

If we just started ignoring the idiots in real life, they would go away, too. Instead, we put them on the news. All you have to do is wave a Nazi flag or hang a rope from a tree, and you automatically get +5 mod points just for being a moron.

Regarding Racial Slurs

[Lucid 3ntr0py]

In regards to

But use any of the assorted names for black people, and watch the brains of everyone in the room reboot as they look around in a panic to see if any of "them" heard you.

I think this classically illustrates how racism still exists in America. Mexicans don't like being called spics, don't call a lesbian a dyke, a gay a fag, and so on...unless you are tolerant. I can say whatever I choose in mixed company and rarely will a person of particular race,gender or ,who ever fits into whatever slur I said , will get mad.(I'm not talking about running into the tube and screaming "Stupid-ass, watermelon munching. Nigger") Why you ask?

Because they know I've got nothing against anyone. Shying away from certain words shows that you are afraid of them. If you would say something amongst close friends, such as saying "don't be so niggardly", but wouldn't say it in front of a black person- you are racist.

Minorities aren't stupid, yet we treat them like they are. Its like when you have that friend who acts like he enjoys your company but know he talks shit about you. Everyone gets it.

Here's an example, I am a white male in the IT sector. I play in a jazz fusion band called "Spook and the Ghosts". One of my best friends is the black drummer. You know who worries about the name or protests against it? White people. If I were to mention it at work- amongst my ivy-league-PhD-toting-engineers coworkers, they would get freaked out- but then make racist jokes. My black and Hispanic friends in Jamaica Plain [one of the ghettos(in the original sense) in Boston] think its hilarious, but they aren't going to make racist jokes because they think its safe. The PhD's (and most of white America) is racist at home and pretends like they aren't in the street. No one fools anyone.

If someone has a mental disability, call them retarded. That's what they are. When your jewish friend complains about the 25 cents he was shorted at Dunkin Doughnuts, even though he makes 100k a year, tell him to not be such a jew. He knows what your referring to.

The worst thing you can do is act one way in public and another at home.

Re:Regarding Racial Slurs

[D'Sphitz]

Minorities aren't stupid, yet we treat them like they are.

Minorities in general are just as stupid as the average white person. Thanks to the "black leaders" (who aren't interested in racial equality, if there were racial equality they'd all be out of jobs and the national spotlight) way too many blacks have a victim mentality and will often seek out and find racism where there is none.

I see nothing wrong with choosing words carefully, or just avoiding racial slurs altogether.

I browse at -1...

[NeutronCowboy]

And you'll miss 99% of the insightful posts.

... and I say you're full of shit. What sits at -1 sits there for a reason. Occasionally, I see a mod war where people go between 5 and -1, but this is very, very rare. Not to mention that the post generally stabilizes at a positive number.

I've been around since pretty much beginning. I've seen the rise and fall of Portman and grits, GNAA and Katz. As more people joined, signal to noise ratio has indeed dropped. But quite frankly, people like you are part of the noise, and always have been. People have been bitching about the dropping quality of Slashdot since your UID still put you in the noob category.

The final kicker - you're currently sitting at +1. The irony should make your head implode.