Slashdot Mirror
3D Web Browser Draws Lukewarm Review
GreyGoo writes "The media release claims 'Internet surfers will be able to walk through their favourite websites as if they are characters in a computer game with the launch of the world's first 3D browser in Australia today.' However a review from someone who has actually tested the software raises important questions about the worth of the product considering the competing social and 3D products, and that sites have to be hand-crafted in order to truly support the new browser." A browser tied to a social networking scheme seems like a recipe for supreme annoyance.
I already have a 3d browser:
1) Vertical
2) Horizontal
3) Tabbed
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
I know this.
VRML enabled sites have been around for years. It might be a more complex impimentation of a VRML plugin, but it hardly seems noteworthy.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
hand crafted web sites? barf. i totally prefer the pre-fab plasticy kind we have now.
Every time I hear about this it just makes me think of Microsoft Bob... shudder...
Are we sure this is from Australia and not "Borecelona"?
I don't know what books or newspapers would gain from being in 3D, aside from children's books. My web browsing is really not very different from how I interact with printed media, except for things like posting comments. What would a browser gain?
I've never understood the drive for a 3D GUI on a computer. I have yet to see anything more usable than the current WIMP setups included with today's major operating systems.
Been there, done that. Got version 1.0 signed by the developers and it was fun while it lasted. http://www.adobe.com/products/atmosphere/
I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
...must developers continue to inflict us with the 3D interface meme? Time and time again these "wouldn't it be cool if..." ideas turn out to be entirely crappy.
Who wants hand gestures instead of a mouse? Someone who uses a computer for 10 seconds at a time on a conference stage.
Who wants to have to wander around a rendered landscape to visit only the sites some software has chosen for them? My grandparents. No, wait, not even them.
People need to quit wasting cash developing crappy ideas, and spend some time generating GOOD ideas to develop.
Rock is dead. Long live scissors and paper!
Wow that looks incredibly stupid. Why do I want some Second Lifeish program to browse the internet? It just doesn't make sense.
Look forward to pop-ups!
That the first website to support this technology will be a porn site? It will be finished in 3...2...1...
I've always wondered-- what's the point of aiming for the 3D "social" browser anymore? It was tried, tested and failed in the late 90s / early 2000s. I remember trying out several in-browser (read: Flash or Java) 3D avatar-based chat sites. They were all universally crappy, but that seems to be a limitation of the technology. Or rather, it seems to be a limitation of attempting to use the incorrect technology when perfectly good ones already exist.
There exists, right now, several extremely successful 3D social environments that create virtual worlds for people to meet and greet in. Take WoW, for example. The interface is (compared to a kludgy browser interface) extremely easy to use. The chat features are fairly extensive. The world is massive, somewhat customizable, and very scenic. Oh, and there's a game to go with it, too. On the other side of the same coin, SecondLife has a large "social chat" following. The graphics aren't exactly WoW-level, but they meet or exceed any expectations one would have had of a browser-3D world. It is also far more customizable that WoW.
I'm certain anyone here on /. can (and most likely will) point out other 3D games / social experiments that also foot the bill
I think that what these interfaces have over the browser is that they are natural 3D. Their interfaces always were and always will be designed around 3D technology-- while a brower's main design is displaying marked-up data in a two dimensional, fairly linear (and asynchronous) manner. You can argue that you can easily put a 3D widget in there to interpret that markup language, and display it in a plug-in... but all what you've done is wrapped the problem in several layers when it didn't need to be. The plug-in can function much better outside the browser than in, and you don't have to wrap the client-server communications inside HTML or XML or whatever else you chose to send through the browser.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
The concept sounds interesting, and I do remember watching a video related to this earlier this year. But seriously, we've seen things like these before - Beryl, Visual based search engines and Micrsoft Surface. They look good, but end up becoming an all-play-no-use toy utility. And if it something that requires websites to be crafted specially for it, I say it is far away from becoming an everyday concept and replacing our traditional browsers.
Being a Slashdotter makes you too cynical I guess.
RutSum.com
...for a browser that renders genuine 3d solid objects, so I can code all my sites to literally slap everyone still using IE. But other than that, I don't care about "3d" on a computer.
Caveat Utilitor
There won't be any demand, even from Windows users.
how do i get into god mode? i tried IDDQD but it doesn't work
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"A browser tied to a social networking scheme seems like a recipe for supreme annoyance."
Reminds me of Sun's Project Wonderland.
Project Wonderland:
Collaborative Environments Project at Sun Microsystems
http://www.leadingvirtually.com/?p=62
https://lg3d-wonderland.dev.java.net/
Project Wonderland relies on the following open source projects for key technologies.
Project Darkstar - provides the scalable, persistant server software infrastructure
jVoiceBridge - provides realtime immersive stereo audio with distance attenuation
Java 3D - provides the scene graph on which the 3D world and scene manager is built
Project Looking Glass - provides the 3D scene manager
https://sgs.dev.java.net/
https://jvoicebridge.dev.java.net/
https://java3d.dev.java.net/
https://lg3d.dev.java.net/
~hylas
I have some vague memory from around 97 of seeing a demo of a 3d web browser where the pages of the website were textures on the walls of something that looked like wolfenstein 3d level. It reproduced the navigation of the site in the layout of the level.
It never came out. I believe it was a university project.
but not for speed. most of the time we need speedy interaction on the web, be it business or other stuff. spending time with 3d stuff are only possible when going for entertainment.
Read radical news here
I remember back in 1995 playing with an experimental CompuServe client which turned the online service into a blocky cityscape, with the diferent forums represented by buildings, message threads represented by branching trees, and so on. It was fairly impressive for back then, and if I recall correctly it was VRML-based.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
It wants its VRML back.
There are a lot of Internet Meme that are unbearable in 2D, let alone what goatse must be like in 3D.
http://www.spacetime.com/
Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
Stuff like Snoswell's cyberterm environment were much cooler the first time around. This is just the same old "tack a 3d setting on to fundamentally 2d data for no good reason" like html-to-vrml browsers. You want social browsing, add a freaking IRC client to your browser that autojoins rooms named after the url.
Either break entirely and do something new that requires 3d to interact with data that can not be properly represented in 2d, or integrate the third dimension in a non-obtrusive yet useful manner. Photos(currently a 2d medium) and the photosynth point cloud(3d) is decent example of the latter. If I could think of a good example of the former, I'd make it:)
OK, looks like lots of people caught the fact that this has been tried with the web many many times since the 90s. But it even predates the web.. anyone remember 3D Gopher?
http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/GopherVR.html
I guess some ideas just don't die.
Nobody likes 3D more than me ... but I think somebody doesn't understand the web too well.
Anything which:
a) Makes pages slow to load ...is doomed to fail.
b) Needs special plugins and graphics driver
c) Makes web pages really hard to make
d) Doesn't bring more useful info to the user
This thing ticks all four boxes.
3D web sites have been tried dozens of times before but how many 3D web sites do you know of? None.
No sig today...
My experience with every "First 3D Browser" I have used over the last 12 years.
1) Download and go "Ohhh! 3D"
2) 10 minutes later get bored and frustrated with he interface and uninstall it.
Now my head hurts.
Where are the jokes about porn in 3D?
Why is it that every time someone makes a 3D browser they insist it is the worlds first 3D browser? Maybe there are some trivial changes, but they have been out for ages. I remember ViOS or something like that from almost 10 years ago. It was supposed to be this revolutionary 3D internet/browser thing.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
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As far as VRML?
Bandwidth was the "killer" of it then, I know... I built some VRML stuff 'back in the day' (circa 1994-1995, in the 28.8-33k baudrate modem days, & when I first "got out in the field" outta academia in this field/art & science)... & the bandwidth problem? It isn't, now.
The main "catch 22" may be that folks are SO used to present day browsing tools, this again, may not take (for sociological reasons, for lack of a better expression/term here), & too bad - it's actually PRETTY COOL to go around a site in little rooms that display diff. facets of an online presence/website!
APK
P.S.=> One thing it MAY have going for it, is this: To a 'complete newbie', moving around a website in a 3D style manner MAY seem more "natural & intuitive" to they, vs. 'hardcore/set in their ways, online oldsters' for example... after all - the Win9x desktop (yes, clearly this 'bit off of' other desktops before it from the *NIX world &/or OS/2's workplace shell) basically has you treat things like you would on a TRUE physical desktop you work on @ home OR on the job, & this 'took off' like gangbusters, no questions about it (vs. say Win3.x 16-bit "OS" shells on DOS via Program Manager & also the Windows NT 3.x-3.51 Program manager desktop too)... think about it, parallels exist! apk
It's a 3d chat system that opens web pages in Internet Explorer when you click on the doors of buildings with names like "Fox News". And it's not even really a 3d chat system. The chat is a conventional-looking instant messenger window in the corner of the screen (in a separate top level window) and doesn't seem to have any relationship to where you are in the 3d view... which is probably a good thing: while I was in there I saw precisely one other person, until they started to move, whereupon they disappeared.
No user created content, or any hint of user-created content.
They were hinting that they were willing to pay for playtesters while I was testing it.
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I think MS Bob promised to do that. It also failed miserably.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
That one scene in Iron Man where he's building the next version of his suit. He's got himself that neato 3d CAD program. Been a long time since I did any technical drawings so I can't comment on how useful it would actually be but it looked damn cool.
But for the web? Nah. Not practical or useful. The only thing I can see being remotely 3d'ish would be a representation of the webs pathing. However that's stretching it by a lot and still not even needed.
Sounds to me like someone only has a '3d hammer' so all their ideas will be '3d nails'.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
But does it come with a Kewl 3D BSoD?
This sounds about as useful as the Radio Shack Cue Cat.
Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
You can now ACTUALLY wait in line for that download to begin. Awesome!
>> Anyone consider a navigation using speach input
I don't know about speach input, but sapple and smelon have been tried before.
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
>> Nobody likes 3D more than me ...
Ah! Congratulations! So it was you who won that survey?
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
To everyone here who is arguing about whether tabs, scrollbars, etc., are extra dimensions, I have two things to say (type?), with which I believe most other readers of this forum would agree:
When considering mixing the web with virtual space, I think an approach like on dutchpipe.org is much more interesting, which turns it around by adding avatars to plain fugly web pages. That won't be an eye catcher, but most of the web consists of what can be formally called information retrieval (yes, even pr0n), and a very trivial example would be, is it easier to read and participate on Slashdot or buy from Amazon on plain pages, or in a 3d plugin? I'm sure in due time Internet services will evolve and the web will be replaced by something superior, just like gopher was replaced, but mixing 3d space in the current web just won't work. Keep it separate. There's a place for both, see Second Life etc. And a company can always link to and launch such a 3d thing if they really need to.
If I'm going to be in a 3D web for as much time as I currently spend on the web, I'd like it to be immersive, stereo goggles required. And no, I shouldn't be able to customize the decorations of the site I'm in. That would be like walking into every store and having them all look exactly the same.
Oh, and I called it first: in a 3D web, you'll find things IN the web, not ON the web :D
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
11-D. I believe that closed this gracefully.
A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
from the article, brought to you by carl's jr.:
There are also special branded 3D elements such as a Carl's Jr. moving bull which was shown off to me in reference to a 2-year-old TV advertisement, which can be found when visiting the Carl's Jr. site in Exit Reality.
welcome to the internet, brought to you by carl's jr.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Really, this is all Second Life is. A 3D World Wide Web. Realms are handled by different servers. You can go to Dell or PG and see 3D models of their products. When I want to chat with tech support, I *could* go to the Dell store and do a voice chat with the Dell support guy (If they had support manning their page.) The voice chat in Second Life is pretty neat.
There are plenty of people who have products for sell in Second life. They are displayed in 2D on walls in some places, but most have the actual product sitting there on the floor which you can try before you buy.
In the past, there has been a 3D weather room where you could watch the radar in 3D. That's down last I checked.
RADAR is something that would truly shine in 3D. Not only see an X/Y view of where the jet is, but also Z with Z being altitude. If we had a 3D display too that would even be better.
I think this is something that once you start using it, like dual monitors, you really see why it's so much better. You'll find easier ways to do your work. Especially if I have better than 1024x768 graphics. If I could scroll certain windows into my systems into the background with high resolution, I could keep them in my peripheral and switch to them when I see something alerting.
I don't even think this was first.
And He Built a Crooked House
Why is it reminding me http://www.3dmailbox.com/? Seems like almost as pointless.
He yoosays dragon naturaly spiikn; say no to ibm's rugs.
you haven't seen the product, only b is ticked in that list
a) the product is complementary to 2D space. The 2D page loads at its regular speed with an extra link to the 3D version
b) yes, it needs a special plugin, not a graphics driver though, directX and openGL, which are available on all current (as of the last 5 years) systems.
c) web pages are the same difficulty to make as previously, 3D spaces are retardedly easy to make via their drag and drop editing tools (code tools also available)
d) 3D visualisation is useful, socialising with other visitors is useful
c) web pages are the same difficulty to make as previously, 3D spaces are retardedly easy to make via their drag and drop editing tools (code tools also available)
vi is a drag and drop editing tool??? Please post a link to that version. I am fairly certain that you are the only one here who knows of it's existence.
Does this website make my avatar's ass look big?
Funny how they claim to be "first". I remember trying out at least 2 or 3 "3D Browsers" like, 8-10 years ago. Shows how much research these folks put into their product. It's like a sad corporate version of a "First post!" that appears 10 posts down in a comment list!
Nobody likes 3D more than me ... but I think somebody doesn't understand the web too well.
Anything which:
a) Makes pages slow to load ...is doomed to fail.
b) Needs special plugins and graphics driver
c) Makes web pages really hard to make
d) Doesn't bring more useful info to the user
This thing ticks all four boxes.
3D web sites have been tried dozens of times before but how many 3D web sites do you know of? None.
You've just described Flash. And how many Flash web sites do you know of?
I think a "portal" (no pun intended) 3D browser would be fun.
Read Scott McCloud's site and his books. Some of his ideas fit a 3D representation on the Web.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I don't think you've understood the parent poster... There's a text edit mode, there's also a graphical edit mode.
From memory (I played around the graphical edit mode comes with the client, you just click a button and all of a sudden you can move stuff around and add new models from other spaces.
stupid ajaxy editor. s/(I played/(I played around in the closed beta)
also I've thought more about your post, and perhaps you are not a native engish speaker... Look up via in a dictionary, I don't think he's referring to vi software
Already been done:
http://xtux.sourceforge.net/screenshots/xtux_slashdot_railgun.jpg
Well. I had to check it out. I got bored pretty quick. It seemed like it was a memory muncher. For people used to playing games, the graphics are going to be very disappointing. Also, I like to browse at light speed. The faster the better. This is more like strolling, one spends more time getting there than being there...lol. The whole affair seemed like it took too long to load, and didn't have a lot of support(as in help) I might check it out again some other time when I'm totally bored, but for now it will sit idle.
I installed it on my work computer to check out how our works site looked.
First finding out what it installs, how and where and what system requirements is a pain.
After it is downloaded it installs to both Firefox and IE (requires them to be closed).
I opened our site in firefox. It's rather slow to load. You start with a page vertically in front of you and the cluster of media and links on the ground behind it.
If you click a link on the vertical page, it opens the link in Internet Explorer.
If you click on a link in the cluster it opens the link in Internet explorer - unless you click it in just the right place then it opens the page in the 3d view in Firefox.
Once the plugin is installed it will only let you have one window of firefox open - even if it is disabled.
You can't remove it from the addons menu in IE or FF you need to go to the windows programs menu and remove it from there.
Moving around is only on the ground. It's 3d you should be able to move up and down vertically.
For the moment it is a gimmick. It needs a lot of work to flesh it out. It could be good if the implmentation was improved.
A website is a website. A website is not a 3D environment. The only role websites will play in the future of cyberspace is as websites. And until we have a virtual reality capable of simulating the act of browsing as you are all currently performing now, never the two shall meet.
I think when the 3D web software is closed then the usage is still limited to big companies who can afford a $100K 3D web interface for their newest products but why not use the open source software with a free editor? There is a platform called 3DMLW(.com) - they have reached version 1.0.2 and a beta editor is also for downloading.
I can't wait for a browser that renders genuine 3d solid objects, so I can code all my sites to literally slap everyone still using IE.
I absolutely agree with you about slapping IE users. The problem is that after the W3 standardizes SolidML 1.0, only Firefox, Safari, and Chrome will support much of it for the next ten years.
So you'll have full capability to script your website to give handjobs to FireFox & Safari users, but the best you'll be able to accomplish in IE is the rendering of a limp wrist that won't obey positioning rules and that inexplicably jumps three pixels to the right every time you float a rectangle near it.
And Microsoft will refuse to fix it, too, because that would break the three trillion pages that will depend on the behavior of pixel-jogged limp wrists.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
Try Ecodazoo.com :)
It is one of the most awesome 3D websites ever.
Mindblowingly cute too
http://www.object404.com
I'm for completely doing away with 3 dimensions even in real life. Screw a 3rd dimension in a browser. I get lost in my backyard if I walk in circles enough. Just think how much easier giving directions would be in 2 dimension. Go left to get back home... or wait, did we come from the right?
None. Maybe that's just because I don't use them, though.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
It is definitely novel and while reading the article (whoops!) I felt twinges of "that's a neat idea". But my view is that it would never be anything other than a novelty.
Let's take Amazon as an example. If you could browse their store in 3D as though it were a real bricks and mortar place that would take away one of the reasons I shop online. They would need to also include a nippy search with it and in that case why would I bother with the 3D stuff.
I dunno, I'm not convinced. I will concede that there may be sites where people might find such an interface useful. I can't think of any but then I'm the sort of person who doesn't want to be distracted with a 3D environment, I just want to get at what I want quickly and be done with it.
"Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
the end of free searching i think is the objective here isp and there spncers want to controll sufing habits instead of www it would be someting like world wide really big room but with what they deem unbecoming left out i.e. like there own adblock but reversed install it directly into windows 7 and hail it as web 2.0 cloud computing the new google o yea i dl it and found the part were you can jump in to the ocean and walked out trying to find the the end of the internet but soon as i unpressed the up arrow key it pushed be back...maybe that was the great firewall of china... OVERVIEW went to carls jr checked out the chicks in mini skirts and rode a bull had to reload page cause i got stuck in apartment walked to slim fast at the end of the map didnt louse weight every time i tryed to enter a "shop" the dam thing opened IE ontop of that grabed a hambuger at hardys and it took me to a room with tom from myspace on the wall...scary well if you go under the arch to the warter fall you will find thepirate bay and a link to w0w free server list :-P